eBike Camping - Did I Over Estimate Battery Range?
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2023
- eBike camping with the new Letric Xpedition Dual Battery Cargo Bike. Going approx. 35 miles from home to the Mt Baker National Forest in Washington State. Fully loaded with gear, and pulling the Burley Nomad trailer, did I over estimate how far the dual battery system will get me?
What a great demonstration on distance, terrain and load. I have the Himiway Cruiser here in England and do the same...love hammock camping. I have used panniers, along with a rack bag and a backpack. I'm sooo tempted to purchase the Burley trailer, expensive, but makes carrying far easier. Thank you so much for sharing, I believe that ebikes and camping for many is the way forward
Glad you enjoyed it. I really find the Burley trailer a great help. I've used it to haul my camera gear, garden soil, groceries and camping (as you know).
I'm reckoning the bike and trailer and yourself with all you gear must weigh 250lbs so you have to factor in the fact that you just hoisted that a quarter of a mile straight up as well as traveling 35 miles. It takes 13w to raise 1lb up 10 ft so according to my calculations it's surprising you made it, but well done. I camp but I use a motorbike because I'm lazy and I like to go fast. Love the video, keep them coming.
thanks
Seeing you ride up the big hill east of Granite Falls brought back a memory of 52 years ago. I cycled to Verlot (have always heard in pronounced "ver-lot" with a hard t) from UW in Seattle on Thanksgiving day 1971, planning to stay at the campground there and do some day hikes until Sunday morning, then ride back to my UW dorm. The rain started about the time I reached the north end of Lake Washington. This was pre-Gortex, and I didn't even have any coated nylon clothing - just wool shirts, knickers and knee socks and a nylon wind-breaker. Grew up in eastern WA (Tri-Cities, under 7 inches of rain a year) and had no experience with western WA rain.
Coming around the bend in the Mtn. Loop Highway out of Granite Falls, I saw that big hill you rode up - without benefit of wide angle lens, it looked like a very steep, very big wall for my 41-pound Schwinn Varsity (with chrome steel fenders) and my dilettante's camping gear. At least it kept me warm going up.
For overnight, I took only a 6' x 8' coated nylon tarp which with parachute cord I fashioned into a lean-to, so my army surplus down/feather bag stayed off the wet ground, and the top of the lean-to kept MOST of the incessant rain off me. I remember camping under a tree but it was fully soaked with rain already. I had planned to cook over a fire but couldn't get one going as all the wood was wet and I had only matches and a bit of paper.
The next morning as it continued to rain I packed up my damp belongings and rode home to the dorm, bagging the idea of hiking, or even camping another wet night, in Verlot. I remember stopping a couple of times., every 25 miles or so, under building roof overhangs to take off my shoes and wring the water out of my socks. I just now googled "annual rainfall in Verlot" and got answers that included 9.99 inches, 55 inches, 71 inches, and 135.5 and 140 inches. The low values are associated with real estate sites; the 135.5 inches is a 20 year average for the Verlot Ranger Station reported by UW meteorology professor Cliff Mass, so I expect it is correct.
The tourism/real estate site idcide.com reports at www.idcide.com/weather/wa/verlot.htm:
"The warmest month of the year is August with an average maximum temperature of 9.99 degrees Fahrenheit, while the coldest month of the year is January with an average minimum temperature of 9.99 degrees Fahrenheit."
and also that
"The annual average precipitation at Verlot is 9.99 Inches. Winter months tend to be wetter than summer months. The wettest month of the year is November with an average rainfall of 9.99 Inches."
Clearly, visit Verlot in any month other than November, and it's very likely there will be no rain at all. But you better bring your puffy jacket. And given the max temp in August is the same as the min. temp in January, both 10 degrees F, Verlot is one of the very few places that's colder in summer than in winter.
Wow - you had quite the adventure - rain sure can turn a fun ride terrible! Glad someone knows what that hill is like - LOL. Your experience reminds me of a camping trip I took when I first moved to the Northwest (from the Mojave desert) 40 years ago. You are probably right about the pronunciation of Verlot - I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it so I just guessed. If I get up there again, I'll have to ask. Thanks for watching the video.
Ms. Shebley, 1st let me say congratulations for riding outside your comfort zone, most people never do. Kudos! You should be proud of your effort. Now to answer your question, yes, you did overestimate your maximum _comfortable_ range. I suspect you listened to and believed Lectric and their CZcams snake oil salespeople too much in equipment choice and the drastically exaggerated hype. 8 years ago I started building an ebike trailer combo just as you have and in 48K miles, I've learned a lot. Once I had my bike and trailer set up I started I spent a year doing long day rides out and back with a fully loaded bike and trailer to *know* what my maximum range was before I ever started touring. Those rides also taught me most of the physics of adding a couple of hundred pounds of gear to a bike and trailer... very valuable lessons.
Some of the key areas that I *know* are restricting your range. Fat tire bikes are notoriously bad for rolling resistance, and all Lectric ebikes are overly heavy. The second thing is using a hub motor rather than a mid-drive motor. Mid-drives are far better for what you did in this video. You picked an ebike with dual batteries which is good but 28Ah on that ebike isn't going to get you even 60 miles on flat hard surfaces when loaded. When touring I carry a pair of 58.8V 35Ah batteries, a great charger, and a 300W folding solar panel... I fully understand range anxiety. Your biggest problem is the trailer you chose. Two-wheel trailers are good for making grocery runs but significantly limit where you can ride, add additional rolling resistance, and make getting through pedestrian/biking infrastructure access a pain in the butt. It's never *_fun_* pulling a trailer behind anything, a challenge yes, fun, no.
This is the setup that I chose... almost the exact opposite of what you have. - photos.app.goo.gl/ADgC6oyPM2gyrCq27 Fully suspended steel frame, 1000W mid-drive, Rohloff Speedhub, dynamo front hub, and a single-wheel suspended trailer.
I ride the same areas that you do so if you have any questions I'd be happy to give my two cents worth of experience.
www.relive.cc/view/vQvyDGe2W4q
czcams.com/video/WwwdaVg4Y5M/video.html
photos.app.goo.gl/WcoVAreB4TUdAiPF7
Stay safe.
Thanks for the great info.
@@cindyshebley I suspect that it won't make much difference.
I'm impressed with the robustness of your mid-drive conversion. That's quite a bike and trailer! Well done sir!
@@rickbartley9255 She's getting there. Thanks.
Thanks for the great thread 👍
I do motorized bicycle touring.
I rode one across America last year Florida to California and back.
Heck I earn a living on a motorized bicycle.😊
I use my own design so simple a cave man could do it. Works on any bike with a seat post.
I Post a little on it ,on my channel.
Never believe the milage claimed for the battery, the manufactures all lie about it, I get 40 miles from a 17ah battery on pas 2, I have one battery on the bike and I carry 2 in the trailer (53ah in total), I also carry an EV lead so I can recharge my ebike at any EV charging station.
Oddly enough, I am getting insane range in my Xpedition. Just got it a month ago so the cells are fresh. Did a bunch of rides with my partner on the plus 1 chair. Got over 60 miles with some light hills on thr first charge.
I used PAS4 to start and cycled down to 2-3 once I was up to speed. Certainly wasnt going that fast and I do a good amount of pedalling.
There have been a ton of tests done that actually back up Lectric's mileage estimates.
Of course there have.@@KeeKeeCee
How do charging stations work you pay Per hour?
Great video ! , thanks for taking us along for the ride ! 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
enjoyed your video. keep riding and posting more videos. best wishes from North Yorkshire.
Thanks, you too!
You did something great, I love it! This last weekend I did the same as you but on 3 days covering 500 miles. My trailer has around 85lbs in it since I carry 100aH of battery (60lbs) and I avg 19mph, I have a strong mid-drive on a DIY MTB, So seeing that Lectric Expedition in action was amazing, I do own a XP 1.0 and it has been camping a lot just like you did. I hope to see more of your adventures. Maybe you can look in for some solar option if your off grid. Most of the national parks I go to have electricity available.
Thanks for the encouragement - I really enjoy ebike camping - and with a trailer I think my next step is some solar for recharging. Here's to more camping for the both of us!
That was fun. Thanks for sharing and especially thanks for hauling all that camera gear. It was worth it.
Glad you enjoyed it
I did something similar, a day trip in yellowstone. I eneded up hanging out in the grand tetons for a couple of hours while i got two bars of charge and then i very cautiouslyheaded back. The battery died completely within sight of my cabin!
Well, that sounds a little frightening - Yellowstone is hard enough to peddle on a regular bike! Glad you were able to find a place to charge up a bit before returning to your cabin. Let's cross our fingers for more outlets available in the future.
Production and sound quality on the video is really good.
A small 50 solar panel to your portable power back would be great.
great idea!
I am glad you made it home without running out of charge.
The range off 100+ miles Lectric toutes is on flat ground, Pas1, no cargo, etc... basically ideal conditions only...i would expect real world best case is like 40-45, maybe 50miles once you account for elevation and cargo in Pas1...pas2 maybe 35miles or so...
I run mine on PAS3 in town and I'm averaging about 60 miles on a single charge. I do live in a somewhat hilly place too and I use it for groceries and getting around regularly. Their range estimates on their website are very much so realistic.
Cindy, awesome video, thank you for posting. I don't know of many flat level roads on the west side of the mountains! Only once you pass Ellensburg does it get nice and flat. Have you found a solution for the battery charging out in the woods? Since you stated in the video that you have a small Bluetti do you have a fold-able solar panels to keep the Bluetti charged in the woods? I look forward to your next video.
Rob - thanks for your comments! I'm still trying to figure out how to charge on eBike trips. I do have a larger Jackery Power Station 1000 watts and solar panels. However, the Jackery weighs in at 22 pounds (plus the solar panels) which is pretty darn heavy/added weight to my already over packed trailer - LOL. I might ditch a bit of camera & camping gear and try it next time tho. So far my best solution is to try and find a campground that has power - either in the bathrooms or somewhere in the campsite. That rules out wild camping or most national forest campgrounds. Which was what Verlo was. Eastern Washington; I love it over there. I hope to try an overnight eBike trip there sometime this fall or next spring. I'm thinking my next eBike adventure takes me to the San Juan Islands - which are VERY HILLY. A real test for me and the eBike!
Cool Thats What I Do Take a Solar generator thingy That can Charge My Battery and Charge it over night adds a lot of Weight But I Ride about 30 Kilometers till the Battery is nearly Flat , Charge it up over night and Ride Back , good fun
Good idea!
Nice set up. Good looking bicycle with the trailer.🤙. I pull a trailer with my Rad Rover plus 6. Cheers 🎉
Thanks! Most times you'll find me out with my Rad Runner + and the trailer.
Thanks for the fantastic adventure looked amazing 💯
I like to use a motorized bicycle too.
i found that all the peddling kept ruining my adventures 😂😂😂
I use gas cause I'm still a savage🚴💨 .
But i like any motorized bicycle adventures.
Thanks for the video 👍
Without any gear I need around 5-10 Wh/km or 7-15 Wh/m. Depending on how many hills are on the route.
With the (quite large) 700Wh battery I have a range of around 60-80 km or 40-55 miles. With a heavy trailer maybe half the distance.
To increase the range I drive uphills slow with little assist. If you want to keep the speed up you will need much more energy.
Batteries deteriorate over time.. So range is constantly lowering.. to calculate range: Take your Volts times AmpHours (Vxah) and you will get total watt hours (wh). Most ebikes on flat land, consume 200 to 400w... So take your total WH figure and divide by 200 or 400 Then multiply that by average speed and multiply it.. That is how you calculate range... I have 52v x 24ah for watt hours, then divide it by 200 and 400 and multiply that by 20mph to find range... Weight, climbs/descents and power level greatly affect that number..
Stated range on mine is good as long as you have no gear, so its the trade off. More gear, get some more batteries. Super fun to ride.
yes, they are a lot of fun to ride!
Ohhh nice
thanks
I plan on doing something similar I’ve already got the bike expedition 3.0 I got a wagon but it’s old so I can get another one but I’m gonna do long distance traveling solar everything
That sounds like fun. I'm hoping to do a few more distance rides this year as well. Good luck!
uphill will melt your battery level fast. yes only take what you need I'm going on my own adventure soon but I will be packing a solar charging panel for ebikes. Thanks for sharing
Please let us know how your trip went and more about your solar set up - hope you have fun!
😊❤ a little helpful hint you have a nice bike trailer have someone build a rack on it hook up a 100.watt solor panel to us to recharge your batteries on the go or at a camp site so in the morning while you are still sleeping the sun will charge your batterys as long as there pointing east when the sun rises 😊 not in the shade. Works great.
Thanks for the tip!
This is a bit of concern for me because I'm looking at this bike for bikepacking. Lectric touts the long range but in my opinion, even weighted down somewhat, this bike and batteries should have performed WAY better than it did.
Yeah, I'm not sure - there were a lot of up and down hills on the trip - the one I showed was the longest hill climb, but there were several others. The bike was weighted down, but I had hoped for better range. I wish there was more access to charging - I'd even pay (like the electric cars do) for a fast charger along the way. I hope we can figure this out - I want to do more eBike camping. Thanks for your comments.
I think you may rely on the battery a bit too much. It is overall a bicycle.
@@dougmoore5252 Yeah, 30 years ago, when I was in great condition, doing weeks long (non electric) bicycle tours in places like the Canadian Rockies, I might have agreed with you - but at my age its just nice not to have to try and peddle a 75# fat tire bike up a steep grade. I don't do training for harder training anymore :)
Having had multiple electric bikes for the last 6 years and currently owning the Xpedition, it performed as I would expect. All manufacturers give you the range estimates under perfect conditions (Temp, tire pressure, flat route, light rider/cargo). In my experience the Xpedition will get me about 40 to 45 miles of riding on a single charge with both batteries in a relatively hilly area of Maryland on PAS 5 with no cargo. Add my son to it or my trailer and it goes down to 30 to 35 miles.
The Xpedition is the best bang for your buck. You're not going to find a cargo bike with half the range for the same price. Having the two batteries has taken away any range anxiety that I've had with my previous bikes.
There are some down sides to the bike, such as the brake pads aren't great and I had 3 flats in the first month with the tires. I replaced them with some Pirelli moto scooter tires and haven't had an issue since.
@@dougmoore5252 Rely on the battery too much? It's not just a bike. It's a 70 pound bike with thick tires. Plus, she's hauling a trailer that I'm guessing is probably close to 60 to 70 pounds. Compared to your usually bike packing bike, that's an extra 100 to 110 pounds.
Looks like someone is going to need to upgrade to some 20 amp hour batteries
I have this bike approximately a month now and I’ll say I’m 200 and the range even when I’m being very conservative in pas 1/2 I still don’t get the range even half of their estimate 😞. But it’s still a great bike !!
I agree - its a great bike, especially for the price!
True. Hubs do not do well on hills if they’re at all steep.
“Bad hills and heavy loads *really* want a mid-drive.” (With low gears, 1 to 1 or lower. I have a 42 tooth sprocket on the drive, and my lowest on the cassette is also a 42 tooth.)
I’ve run both.
Was the power turned off in the restrooms? I’ve been to Verlot and was able to recharge the battery for my cpap in the bathroom. One of the bathrooms has an outdoor outlet.
I wish I would have realized that. I only noticed valt toilets. If I make it back there again I'll be sure to check. It sure is a beautiful area!
How many Wh (VxAh) does one battery have?
35mi until the battery completely died? How many volts left after that? I had a lot less weight, but more frequent and steeper hills and only managed 20mi.
I didn't check the volts at the end of the ride. I should have but forgot.....
@@cindyshebley gotcha. That’s okay. Too excited. I understand.
The math on lectric battries is pretty simple. Volts x amp hours ÷ 25 will give you your range in miles. Divide by 50 for a fully loaded bike.
Thanks for the useful info - I'll keep that math in mind as I gear up for the new riding season.
I agree with the one comment a person made. They flat out lie on distance. I have the Lectric cargo bike. These tests are so misleading. Because this
Is real world riding. I’m in Albuquerque and plan riding north into S. Colorado. I will credit card camp (motels). I’ll have a list of motels where I’ll stop.
Call in advance and ask if bicycles are allowed in rooms. I will have the batteries ready for the next day. Single people always have more disposable income
Over married people, usually. I will take two extra batteries with me. Not cheap, it’s called insurance. No trailer. Minimal gear. If I see 75 miles I’m happy. , I’ll be lucky. Having bicycled across the continent of Australia twice, Fiji, New Zealand on my specialized rock hopper. At 73 yrs. Old, I want a bed.
these cargo bikes are truly great work horses.
Wow, your trip sounds awesome! I think you'll be happy with the Letric Cargo bike on the trip. I find it to be a real trouper and easy to handle for such a big bike. Lots of storage options for your gear too. Even if the real world range isn't as far as we'd like it to be. Like you, when I was younger I did a lot of regular pedal bicycling - including the Canadian Rockies for my 40th birthday. I think there's noting wrong with motel camping - a nice soft bed and shower after a long day riding is heaven. However, I was surprised that sleeping in a tent wasn't so bad, even at pushing 70 myself. Please tell us how your trip goes! I'm starting to plan my next bike camping venture too. Thanks for sharing. Have fun.
hi, can you share the link for those handlebar mirror? Ride Safe
Mirrycle MTB Bar End Mountain Bicycle Mirror - www.amazon.com/Mirrycle-MTB-Mountain-Bicycle-Mirror here is a link: www.amazon.com/Mirrycle-MTB-Mountain-Bicycle-Mirror/dp/B0009R96YK/ref=sr_1_2?crid=9QE5QFE2PIKY&keywords=Mirrycle%2BMTB%2BBar%2BEnd%2BMountain%2BBicycle%2BMirror%2B%2C%2BBlack&qid=1692047060&sprefix=mirrycle%2Bmtb%2Bbar%2Bend%2Bmountain%2Bbicycle%2Bmirror%2B%2C%2Bblack%2Caps%2C160&sr=8-2&th=1
@@cindyshebley thank you
🎉☆☆☆so great!!
3:55
I'm on my second e bike and what they claim for distance NEVER happens. I can't get half of the claim.
Pedalling an e bike is damn hard work . Sometimes I've had to ration the power to just up hills in order to keep going.
Yes, it seems the eBike estimates are always a bit optimistic. I know what you mean about rationing power :)
I don't get it. How do you get only 35 miles out of 150-mile battery ? I have XP Lite, and it is a 40 rage on psa 1, and I get 38 miles between Psa 2 and 3.
Heavy bike, heavy loaded trailer, heavy rider going up steep hills takes more energy - draining the battery faster. Letric rates the distance of this bike at 100 plus miles riding on a flat road with a 150 pound rider. The batteries didn't completely drain down to zero when I stoped for the night, but there was no way it would have made it back on the remaining charge. I could have gone a lot farther if I didn't carry as much stuff and stayed on flat ground so I could use PSA 1 and 2. But where's the fun in that - LOL.
We have the original Lectrics and usually limped in at about 25 miles. My partner is heavier and uses more assist. I have had to go home and get the car to pick him up. We got spare batteries to carry with now.
Hello Cindy do you have the link to that rear cart?
Here you go: burley.com/products/nomad - if you are not in a rush, wait a bit they have sales now and again.
@@cindyshebley thanks but that is way too expensive hahaha I need something to just put camping stuff in on a budget haha
@@JasonXBeats Yeah, they are pricey. I got mine on sale. They come up for sale once in awhile on Craigslist. And, if you don't have a problem with knock-offs you can probably find one on Aliexpress direct from china (or amazon).
I'm a bit disappointed when they give a long range for a person of 150 lbs. I have an E bike too and it said 75 miles. But not in the real world. I was over 150 lbs in middle school. Nice video by the way.
Thanks! I try give the eBike companies some slack, it's impossible to say the range due to so many variables. But, I sure would like to see a greater range - or more places to charge. Wouldn't it be great if the batteries could recharge using peddle power?
I guess they have never heard the saying to "under promise, but over deliver"
I have read on my battery instructions never use power 4 or 5 uphill because it can overheat batteries. That much speed and weight and power means that batteries will not give optimum distance. I think you said 350 poungd total load. Crazy
Yes, I really gave the bicycle a work-out. I was a bit concerned about the motor and batteries overheating but it was a coolish day and going up the mountain there was lots of shade from trees. The Letric cargo is meant for loads and didn't overheat.
Just looked up the bike specs and they say 150 miles range.😮. 35 miles seems a bit low even considering weight and terrain.
Yeah, I agree. I probably could have made it farther tho - the return trip was mostly downhill. There was no way I would have made back to base. It takes hours for the batteries to charge. Better to charge up when you have the time and power than to try and do it on the road, hoping to find a Starbucks or the like.
That's 150 miles in PAS1 with no cargo load. Their website gives pretty accurate range estimates with no load.
You could increase your range by carrying extra batteries in your trailer.
Had an ebike. Due to range anxiety, replaced it with a touring bike and a recumbent trike with low gears to get me up the steepest hills with ease.
The ebike I had weighed 30lbs, would get 30 miles with 100% assist using a 250W battery, 60 miles on 40% assist, and an estimated 200 miles plus when the motor was only used for steep hills. Without any assistance atall, it took the same time to do a route as the non assist version of the bike I had , weighing 20lbs.
I think you are on to something. I used to enjoy riding a non-electric bike, maybe as I get in better shape I try them again - esp one with lower gears :)
Check out M-81 ULTV
My ebike kid has better torque for less power in pa-2 than in pa-3+. In my experience you need to drop your gear to an easier gear and drop your pedal assist to a Lower number to maximize your power usage which saves your batteries. You go slower, but that is to be expected going up hills. Still, that range should be Far better than that.
Thanks for the tips!
Going up that hill with 8-10 mph was to fast. But she was already in first gear.
Need to have a 100watt flexible Solar panel attached to the pannier to recharge the batteries while you camp.
great idea!
Camping overnight? Solar charging????
It's probably better to hook this trailer up to a gasoline-powered moped instead of an electric-powered one. Electric motors are not that good for hauling.
I think you are right about gas v electric motors - but there are so many good things to be said about electric powered motors I want to see the industry grow.
at pas 4 you won't get the big rang and the hill did not help it has to be in pass 1 or 2 to really get the distance
thanks, I'll have to try harder
Recharging would take over 7 hours from zero and with a solar charging solution, probably at least 5 days.
Yes, I'm sure it would. But, I was thinking of taking a fully charged 1000 Watt Jackery and use it all up on one charge. It would probably take overnight to charge the bike battery and the Jackery would be depleted. So, one would have to re-charge the power station and using a 100Watt solar panel it would take a couple of very sunny days at least.
1345 watt hours is not going to get you 150 miles, thats just BS. I would say 80 miles on the flat, not pulling a trailer.
Adding in weight and hills, especially the combination of them both will significantly reduce your range.
I don't think solar would help much, unless you have one of those dedicated light weight solar set ups that take up your whole trailer and you are travelling in the desert.
Good to test it out and see what the range is in real world conditions.
thanks for your insight
Ok so for an "average " rider of 150 pounds they advertise 100 miles? Noooo way. When I hear these estimates I always cut them by 30-35 percent. So say you can get even 70 miles off of 2 batteries . You were carrying almost double that going upgrade as well? I would have thought 35 miles max depending on the watts and amp of the battery.
I myself weight well over 300 so I know that range is always gonna be low in any road trip.
Yes, I think you are correct. I had to see how far I could go tho... fun to push the limits once in awhile.
"Partner" ???
After nearly 40 years it's a habit to refer to Dany as my "partner" - besides, even tho we are married she would shoot me if I called her 'my wife' - we are 1960's/70's feminists after all.
I think she saidc375 pounds
yep
Get a portable electric generator
thanks for the tip