CRASH at Alviso - How did it happen?
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- čas přidán 25. 12. 2020
- Race commentary from the Alviso criterium on 10/6/20.
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Hey ! Timmy here..
Just wanted to provide some extra context. According to Alviso chat discussions, a rider within the pack did not finish his lean all the way past the apex of the corner. He stopped short and changed his line, causing an overlap of wheels. Stuff like this rarely happens out there. Luckily everyone made it out ok, no broken bones or bikes.
Not here for the carnage but the learning. Always helpful!
Same here! Got to cycling 3 y ago and while I don’t race, I love the way you explain the strategies and the reasoning behind it. Just make me love the sports even more 😁
Thanks guys!
Same here. As an amateur who loves the sport I look up to guys like that
Looks as if seeing the white pickup truck caused him to tighten his line. 🤷🏼♂️ Glad all are ok.
Yep, caused a chain reaction
Exactly what I was going to say. But I think that is the accepted hazard of "racing" in an open to traffic area. I've watched a ton of the Alviso's on youtube, and can count the car/truck issues on one hand (pretty low), but all of them have been at this spot or that stop light right, 2nd to last right before finish. I'd be worried a rubbernecking driver would drift over into the lane. Where I live (Raleigh NC) there are people on record (radio call in shows...seriously, it happened) that have said they would or have intentionally ran cyclists off the road or into dangerous situations.
@@NorCalCycling Hi Norcal, is there a video (or somewhere) where you describe how your group of guys made Alviso? Are there road closures?
@@jamesportoraro8248 No road closures. It's an official-unofficial practice crit.
@@kidsafe thanks for letting me know! I guess there just isn't much traffic in the area?
Bro, you gotta attack after the crash because a drop is a drop. -Backwards Hat Dylan
Totally read that in his voice. lol
this is the best
indeed. what's happened, happened. You can inspect it later, shoulda sprint. Anyway, good video, great. thanks
Good. Content lol
Props to you for going back to check on the crash - THAT is what proves "we're all friends here at Alviso." You could have stomped it home from there, but going back is the Gentleman's move.
I'm new to racing. It is my understanding that you finish the race and let race Marshalls tend to the injured. Is that an incorrect assumption? Not every race has Marshalls?
@@LLroomtempJ this ist Not a sanctiont Race so no medical tent etc... They race on open streets.
I dont see how the San Jose guy has anything to do with the crash. The main guy that caused the accident with red/blue uniform clearly hit the gutter and lost his line
There is sooo much info in these videos. 1 month since I discovered the channel and I watched almost all the videos
That's awesome! Thanks for sharing
Pretty cool stuff. Was neat to see the difference between an experienced rider vs a newbie. Pros take such cleaner lines and maintain gradual power through the turn. Wondering if someone touched their brakes in that crash.
Looks to me like a rider close to the curb got spooked by the fast truck going by and touched the brake. Rider behind cut across in an attempt to avoid rear-ending them and crashing started.
I watched this multiple times. I looks like someone slowed on the inside, causing the rider behind to swerve around (to the left) into the group as it was coming through the apex. Very strange accident indeed. I really enjoy your videos and glad no one got hurt this time!
yeah looks like the front rider was well through the corner already. chain reaction of events of course but the inside rider got spooked or couldnt handle the pressure
Just my 2c from the peanut gallery... The SJBC dude made a clean pass. Maybe he should have scanned for cross-traffic before he committed, but that's a split second decision with the speed he was already carrying.
Glad everyone was ok, look forward to the next video.
Here’s to racing in ‘21!!
Yeah, riders were a little more compressed than ideal but if they kept their line would have been ok. My hunch is that someone close to the curb made a clumsy adjustment to avoid it.
it looks like the red jersey blue shorts guy who was on the floor at the end caused it by going too close to the curb.
@@albr4 Riders that approach the turn from the curb (trying to gain position on the inside) always cause problems. They can’t ride a proper apex turn at speed so they either exit wide or they slow way down. Either way it screws riders around them. Which is why some guys at front will block the inside lane until approaching the turn, when they swing out to ride a proper apex turn. Unfortunately that’s what it takes to dissuade those riders that try to gain positions approaching the turn. Bottom line - gain position on straights, not approaching turns.
Ya it was probably an overreaction, but sjbc taking an irresponsible line is what started the chain reaction
@@NorCalCycling I can’t argue with your assessment since you were only feet away from it (and could diagnose it with other riders afterwords). Love your videos and your commentary - accurate and honest analysis of what you were thinking in the moment.
@Vicki Peterson Yes, unfortunately. I occasionally see people get hit or crash then get into a fight demanding the other cyclist pay for damages.
Glad everyone is okay! Thanks for more great content
honestly you really can't tell what happened from this footage, to me it looked like the guy in the red jersey blue shorts just clipped the curb or hit his pedal, or just got the corner completely wrong, I can't see any contact from other riders causing the crash.
I agree with this observation as well. The San Joe guy didn't take a bad line. Plenty of room was left for the rest of the field.
You can see the wheel of the red jersey blue shorts guy yank to the left.
@@gwhockett Exactly. The San Jose guy had nothing to do with the crash. Poor guy that hit the curb just couldnt handle the bike and adapt fast enough
Love all your videos but this one is truly a work of art. The pace (with the fast forwarding and your voice) and music of it is incredible and makes it a joy to watch :)
Thanks for the kind words 👍
Cold and snowy here in metro Detroit so I'm watching your videos riding my conventional trainer. When 7:45 came up I instinctively grabbed my brakes 😀.
Thanks man, new riders can learn a lot from you!
As always this was very informative. I hope you have a Happy New Year and here's to a better 2021.
Damn. I was so into the what was going on the whole race that o completely forget there was going to be a crash. Genuinely surprised when it happened lol.
Great footage. Brings back some memories, mate!
This is super entertaining!! I want to race so bad. Still a newbie, so this video is great for learning
The san jose guy didn't cause this crash... ?? Like, he stays nicely besides that orange guy no problems there. The crash has nothing to do with them both of them. I think its more a case of low speed close to the finish and some guys want to move up that causes them to be too close together in that corner.
Totally agree, watched it multiple times, the SJ bike guy kept his line and didn't cause this crash
I think he came in too tight from the outside and caused a slowdown in the front, which caused a chain reaction of slow downs and eventually a crash.
@@NorCalCycling Check 8:02. Roll the clip from 8:00 and watch that wheel which you see just in the frame from the right, on the inside of the corner. It has a light colored tyre with black rims.
.
.
.
It looks like he is jerking his front wheel, first slight into the corner, then possibly hits the curb and it sways out, or his pedal hits the curb and he tries to correct (look through the orange frame). The guys front and left are not close to him. Looks like red socks done it. Looked to me the guy who attacked left plenty of room for everyone.
@@NorCalCycling you wrong, delete this vid fool
The problem looks more like you're confined to race on open roads, not so much the attack of that rider. I mean, suprise pickup truck isn't something you should have to worry about.
Exactly. ‘Racing’ in an uncontrolled area is pretty much guaranteed death.
great race best regards form Polnad
You can see there was contact at 8:02 (watch the area outlined by the orange Allied bike frame) between the guy who ends up on the ground, and the Swift rider on the bianchi. You can see a sudden surge in his front wheel.
Was that SuperDave Koesel making a cameo appearance in there?
Thanks
Very good
The cause was described as the lead/attacking rider "pinched" the corner. When a large group goes through a corner together, the arcs of both the inside (near the curb) and outside riders need to be similar. If the outside rider pinches everyone, and changes and tightens his line to the right (on this course), the inside and middle riders will have nowhere to go except into the rider to their left. Instead of two parallel arcs, the inside and outside riders have a path that looks exactly like an upside down V.
This is very common on the 2nd to last, or last corner, when the entire group surges right before the corner, and an outside rider at the front cuts off the entire group by pinching the corner, and everyone on his wheel follows his line, and the inside riders have nowhere to go. Lesson: don't be on the inside unless you are first through the corner.
outside rider (blue shirt on the left) had NOTHING to do with some guy 7 riders right of him panicking
From Philippines 🇵🇭 RIDE SAFE ALL GUYS ❤️🚴🏽
Idol
@Jhonel Ubaldo I watched a "race" on a Philippines guy's channel that made this look like a closed course! You guys have some insane open road races in what looks like rush hour traffic!
@@sknkwrksowner yeahhh thats right here in Philippines you need to be careful in race here because race call here is bente bente race you need to pay a 20 pesos to allow you to join in the race but the race is dangerous cause there’s so many car in the highway
@@sknkwrksowner sorry to my english cause im not good in English
@@ajabila775 YES! It was insane and looked like something out of a action movie! lol
learned a lot / thank you !
8:02 rider on black bike close to apex hits curb and loses bike control.
8:06 he is already down on his non-drive side, causing a blockage and more falls.
That is how I see it.
Can you explain how that is caused by the - admittedly rather swaggering - line from the rider attacking on the outside?
yes the guy on the black bike is the guy who is in red shirt and blue shorts on the floor at the end, pretty sure he gets too close to the curb and messed up the corner. In this video he is the first one to make a weird move so I'm pretty sure he caused the crash.
Group gets pinched mid turn by the sjbc rider taking a tight and overly aggressive line. Causes people to grab brakes and eventually crash. Not directly the fault of sjbc but his line is what started the chain reaction. That's the way I see it.
@@NorCalCycling And the SJBC rider gets pinched by the white pickup truck. I know, from experience, that shutting down roads and traffic can ge a massive headache (and sometimes impossible) but that race route is idiotic.
@@NorCalCycling Definitely not SJ riders fault he had so much speed he was well clear of wheels regardless f his aggressive line. You can just about see the black bike, blue shorts red jersey rider on the narrow inside line hits the curb with his front wheel causing the crash the SJ rider was long gone when the crash happened...
@@MRLOLZZZZZZZ That was exactly my impression, hence my question - thanks for spelling it out so nicely for me non-native :-)
kudos to Nick for his correct following of your evasion maneuver ^_^
That san jose get so excited for his attact... Lesson learn... Know your surroundings..
This channel is so successful because of the good story-telling. Not because it's factual. That guy didn't cause that crash, but SJBC is just the villain in this story (channel). Take it with a grain of salt.
Actually looks like the dude in the red jersey at the end hit something that made him swerve left into the peloton. Look at the right side of the screen and you see his tire twist before the right turn
Hey Jeff whats the name of the song that you use throughout the video
that san jose rider didn't cause that he got pass everyone else in the front
Yeah there was a rider coming through right in the gutter on the right that seemed to be the one who caused that
Tim Davis really out here
How long is one lap on this course?
You guys are racing in NorCal ?
nice man i shared twice
philippines hereee🇵🇭🇵🇭🍾
Idol
Does a field ever get lapped on this course?
Expensive to fix a bike after a crash like that. Glad all riders involved are ok.
You guys ride in open roads. Do you all use Garmin radar light to warn you about incoming traffic or just pray? Best
Traffic is very light in this area, and we're going faster. Any potential issue we just neutralize and restart.
Great move by Timmy to go back
I always see cars passing by in this crit. Is the vehicular traffic not closed during races?
@MRGRUMPY53 yeah I remember him saying it's around lunch time in an area that has some closed commercial buildings (correct me if I'm wrong on that)
Definitely not something I'd recommend
Wicked! Maybe Alvisio folks should do some bike riding in Boston. It will change their mind about racing with regular traffic On.
@MRGRUMPY53 yeah there's one local to me. People in the neighborhood hate it.
No grazed knees?
when the 2 thirsty bear riders almost break away at 16km left in the race (4:35 in the video) you say if you would have let them go it would have been "game over". Still so much racing left and considering you were just in a breakaway with 4 guys taking turns pulling and got caught fairly quickly why would this breakaway be different. Surely the group could have caught 2 riders.
i think someone flinch because of the pickup truck
Is this p12?
TIMMY !
Timmy ?
and the gloves?
What's the music 🎶@ 1:50 ?
But attack cause riders behind to crash so is not good tactic attack in corner? Please explain?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the guy with the sketchy move just before the crash did the exact same thing at 4:11. He doesn't even look for a car coming his way....
At 4:11 he's past the apex when he passes Jeff. Both moves were clean passes. Practice crits exist for this very reason, so riders don't get "spooked" by this sort of stuff.
pretty simple, someone took their eye off the wheel in front to glance the white truck (rightly so for life/death supersedes glory) and touched the wheel in front, causing a quick change in direction into other riders.
2:40 what the heck, Timmy
Funny how this came in my recommendations after i just had big crash i twisted my wrist and my leg and arms had lots of scratches and my jersey got holes in it
I overshot
Is this a recent race ?
No, check the description
"And if he is on San Jose, that means that there are 5 or 6 guys in the field that won't do any chasing." I think you meant shouldn't do any chasing, but probably will anyway.
No one is going to talk about the car @3:08 ???????? That was dangerous!
It's an open course and looks like an unsanctioned race so no traffic management. One of those occasions that you enter at your own risk knowing you have no recourse if something really goes wrong.
Noble that you didn't carry on after the crash :)
Ride smart most important, eyes open sharp.
17mph/27kmh pretty slow going into that corner. Overall, just a slow race
im here to watch learn your tactics lol
Can't agree with your assessment on why the pile up happened, the guy who attacked was free and clear and his line was not tight at all, the guy on the inside of him didn't veer, it was the idiocy of one or two riders being too close proximity wise and/or trying to occupy the same bit of tarmac near side of the kerb. Possibly even too much speed to make the turn from that tight position so dabbed brakes/veered.
Almost akin to dive bombing, from that position if you veer outward and/or brake because your line is crap/too much speed that will always cause crashes, these people should know better tbh.
Could he have been trying to avoid swinging wide into that truck?
Cause of crash??
Racing on roads which are completely open to traffic, with a mentality of being on a closed course. It's called complacency.
i think the rider that shot round the outside, was going to collide with the pick up, it looked like he may have tightened his line which caused the incident, it wasnt the best of moves, the pick up isnt hard to spot!
7:43 YW
Looks like some guys on the right gutter grabbed too much brake
Maybe an overreaction but I think sjbc took an irresponsible line and started the chain reaction
@@NorCalCycling Sorry man but you're very wrong with this one. The guy you're saying started the "chain reaction" impacted nobody else's line. The dude that hit the curb was the main cause of the accident and that could have been caused by somebody close to him, not the dude that was way in the front.
Riding bikes is fun hey.
Not all the time but enough of the time 😂
this category 5?
yeah that wasn't his fault at all
The one thing I never understand about these is why do so many riders who aren’t part of a team not try to collectively push across that gap? At most you will see 3 but if everyone not part of a team uses their noggin if you don’t push guaranteed a low position if you do push a chance at a good position its just dumb
How the frick are they soft pedaling at 38kph?!
Man, I want to start racing but I don't ever want to cause other people to crash :T
That's why you start in lower grades and listen to constructive input from more experienced riders. We've all got to start somewhere so don't let your fears of 'this and that' stop you. Give it a go and you'll never look back!
Work w/ Jeff in a Break===Guaranteed Camera time in the Vids!!! A Win 4 ALL.
I don't really see anyone changing their line due to the San Jose rider...Not sure I see where he caused anything.
No line changes- but unpredictable forced braking. It effectively caused a chain reaction from a place that should never be hitting their brakes
What did the guy who cut in the corner have to say for himself? That was kind of a D bad move.
"you crashed i won, cry about it"
WTF??? Timmy???
This is why I dont do crit races.
No hard feelings? Thousands of dollars in damage. Id have some hard feelings lmfao. Not everybody can just replace a bike like that.
Why is that road not closed first of all?
Why is traffic using the crit circuit? A race with a bunch that big should be either closed or have traffic controlled. Sketchy as f....k
@MRGRUMPY53 So just a group of guys out training? not good.
6:59 I can’t get how crit races work! drop riders can join the first group and win the race, can this be true!?
I see rim brake. Is it 90's?
No, a road race in fine weather.
What the fuck is optimus doing in ur vid at 2:50😂
Love watching your videos but racing on open roads... seems very dangerous for riders and other people on the road.
After watching this (waaay too many times) you can see the deflection of the inside rider off the curb. He has room in front of him which leads me to believe it wasnt because he got pinched but rather couldnt handle his bike well enough.
On point.
Ya maybe, like I've said in other comments I don't think the sjbc rider caused it directly, but set off a chain reaction causing riders to slow down and bunch up which resulted in overlapped wheels, bad lines, and ultimately the crash
@@NorCalCycling youre the man btw. love your work mate
I like how the guy who crashed stays on the ground like he's waiting for the team car to come and bring him a spare bike XD
Crit racing on an open course?
How did it happen? Pfft. You all rode into oncoming traffic against a red into an unprotected lane and a couple panicked through the gutter. Basically just lucky that the car coming through the intersection after the truck had the awareness to slow down while you all spread across two lanes of green-light traffic that had the right of way.
You guys have been getting away with it a long time, so it seems silly to pretend the SJ rider was to blame.
You might call it unlucky timing, but it's actually just an inevitability when pretending that you're racing on closed roads.
The San Jose rider didnt do anything wrong. He had nothing to do with the crash on the inside.
So the problem here was the nature of the junction, the number of cyclist using it at the same time, and the van. I think you need a steward, and some signage, and to paint the curbs or road (water-based paint). we have even used flour to mark out lines at dangerous pinch points. You also need a briefing to remind cyclists of the hazards unique to the site. To look at one person or another, you need to shift your focus to the organisers.
Seems like you borrowed Vegan Cyclist’s music.
I have an epidemic sound account. Not sure what Tyler uses
All I want to know is, did anyone loose a nipple??
😂
Lucky you to relaxed and did not go for the last effort, with you being cross-eyed
Anyone here have an old road bike that hardly or doesn't use anymore? I would like everyone to know that I'm open for donations hehe. I always want to start road biking as a hobby and enjoy life as long as I'm still young... Btw I'm from Philippines and I'm 18 years old.