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How Much Pressure does the Dedica really Have? Prep for 9 Bar Mod
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- 15 bars is the advertised pressure of the DeLonghi Dedica, which is way too much for a conventional Espresso! In this video, we look at how to make a manometer out of a pressurized filter from the EC685. We will quantify how much pressure my EC680 and EC685 have respectively, and then do a shot comparison. We will draw taste conclusions, and look forward to the next video in the series, where we try out a couple of springs in the OPV, to try reaching a pressure of 9 bar.
CAUTION! Use this video as entertainment purposes only, as the brew group and portafilter are under high pressure!
Stückliste:
toom.de/p/hahnverlaengerung-r...
Elbow: toom.de/p/winkel-messing-verc...
Washers: toom.de/p/fiberdichtungsset-1...
Part List:
Reducer: geni.us/Reducer
Elbow: geni.us/90DegElbow
Washers: toom.de/p/fiberdichtungsset-1...
-- Products used/recommended in this video --
(these are affiliate links that help fund videos like this, at no extra cost to you)
*These accessories fit for EC680, EC685, EC785 and EC885**
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Last but not least, a capable grinder is necessary. Here are some suggestions:
► Grinder Suggestions: kit.co/tomscoffeecorner/grind... (Amazon)
📖 Blog Article: tomscoffeecorner.com/delonghi...
🛠 All the Dedica Gear: kit.co/tomscoffeecorner/delon... (Amazon)
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Chapters:
----------------------------
0:00 Intro
1:27 Building a Manometer
4:24 Measuring our Nominal Pressure
7:07 Low vs High Pressure Shot Comparison
10:17 Looking Forward to Part II: Replacing the OVP Spring
----------------------------
🦋 TipJar (only if you feel inclined): paypal.me/tomscoffeecorner
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#TomsCoffeeCorner #DelonghiDedica #9BarMod
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15 bars is the advertised pressure of the DeLonghi Dedica, which is way too much for a conventional Espresso! In this video, we look at how to make a manometer out of a pressurized filter from the EC685.
Join the coffee club! (subscribe): czcams.com/users/TomsCoffeeCorner
0:00 Intro
1:27 Building a Manometer
4:24 Measuring our Nominal Pressure
7:07 Low vs High Pressure Shot Comparison
10:17 Looking Forward to Part II: Replacing the OVP Spring
Hi Tom have you seen this? pressure seems not to be relevant as long as you use the right grind size, the pressure will be 9 bars (even usung 15 bar machine) so it is important to have a manometer to measure the pressure when brewing czcams.com/video/HLyKePMX58M/video.html
@@a.rincon2748 Hey Rincon, thanks for that, I will check out Lance's video. You know, when I got the La Spaziale, I was taught to adjust the OPV in this manner, with a portafilter manometer. But, I am beginning to think that you're right, and that I need to mount an inline manometer as well.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I think you should connect manometer and do the caffe few times until overpressure valve activates. Then you will read max pressure. I got too sour espresso problem. With bottomless its even worse. Too fine grid, too high pressure, espresso is still too fast :(
@@TomsCoffeeCorner
Hello Tom,
When you tested the older machine with the dummy sieve manometer, it stopped the pump after 7 bar and all the buttons were flashing. The instruction manual says that the flashing of the three buttons is an error message for a clogged sieve. Perhaps it would otherwise have reached a higher pressure?
But why doesn't this message appear with the white Dedica?
I have exactly the same problem. Could changing the OPV help or is this a problem on the control side or somethung else?
Thank you for your answer and best regards from Germany.
Hi Tom, it is 11 bar when the Brew head is blocked by the manometer, so the pressure will be less than 11 bar when there is a flow. Faster the flow lower the pressure. We need to measure the pressure at the right flow rate as we brewing. That is tricky.
S
Nobody has done such experiments to dedica on YT or anywhere else until now. This is fantastic. You're a blessing, Tom.
Greatly appreciate that we got you to take care of this lower cost machine! Creative and entertaining contents! Can’t wait to see Part 2 ；）
Thanks a lot for that! I was recently looking for the info about actual pressure achieved by Dedica, since marketed 15bar didn't seem right. And didn't find any, until this wonderful video of yours :) Looking forward for next parts
You’re simply the best, i know that you can made this modification. Now i can sell my old coffee machine and buy a dedica! Thank you so much for your video, i can’t wait for part 2! 😉
amazing work! your videos have been a great source of inspiration and iI now feel confident modding my ec680
Thank you for this video! I'd definitely like to try make this and looking forward to the 9 bar mod!
I'll do it for sure! Thank's Tom!!!
A Big Hug From Brazil!
Loved the video! Was looking for this kind of information a few months back and now finely I know, ... or at least I know now how to make a pressure gauge myself for my dedica, as apparently we are all getting different pressures :) thanks!
Very nice experiment, i was really curious for real pressue for my dedica. Thaks for that.
Great tests! Thanks
Thanks for the tutorial! I'm planning to do this pressure test on my machine as soon as the bottomless portafilter arrives in the mail. I have a Krups Virtuoso, which looks almost like a copy of the Dedica, both exterior dimensions and internal components - so your solution regarding the 9-bar-spring may be applicable on my machine too :)
Just found your video today, i LOVE it ! You legend
Haha, awesome. Thanks for watching!
Awesome video! Never would've thought to do that. I recently traded up for the new Dedica Arte and I gotta say it does save you time on doing the steam wand mod. It makes great foam out of the box. Biggest difference though, is just the newer machine is making much better pressure. I had the old Dedica for years and it finally started crapping out.
That is awesome! Glad to hear that the EC885 is making some nice foam for you Jacob!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner It's not worth a standalone upgrade from an older model, especially you've already upgraded the wand. But if you're buying one new it's worth the extra buck.
Well done Tom. this is fantastic experiment. I will try to make a Manometer.
I appreciate it, Ben! When making your manometer, just make sure to be careful when releasing the pressure! Thanks
This was an interesting video. I was wondering what the pressure would be on the delonghi ecp 3420. I watched that review and that machine looks great.
Looking forward to the next vid.
Thank you sir'Tom for they idea for the bar betwen the 7 bar and the 11bar
GOD BLESS🙏
Cant wait for part 2
Tom, very nice video. I actually just made a portafilter pressure gauge, but I took a double spout portafiler and actually unscrewed the spout using a bit of force and pliers. There are male G3/8in threads (3/8 BSP, but 3/8 NPT fits too) there natively. I just took a simple elbow reducer 3/8 to 1/4in and a gauge, used a bit of thread tape to be extra sure and it was good. I actually added a cheap 1/4 valve for some extra horizontal distance because my gauge needed more clearance.
I see people say that the pressure of the basket might be higher since the water would normally have somewhere to flow out through the puck, but the water still flows out the overpressure valve drain hose back to the reservoir on my machine, so i think it's the same type of thing.
Awesome! Where did you get a double spout portafilter with an unscrewable spout? That was my first idea, but I wasn't sure where to get one.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner the machine I bought was second hand so it actually came with a double spout one, I just tried to unscrew it and happened to get lucky I suppose. I'm not sure how to tell if it's able to be unscrewed, but maybe the cheaper ones on Amazon might be if that's an easier manufacturing method. Thankfully the machine also came with a bottomless so I wouldn't have ruined my only one :^)
@@hathzorz Ok, very cool. Could you link a picture, or send me a DM on instagram?
instagram.com/tomscoffeecorner/
Salut à tous et à tous les amateurs du bon café ☕
J'adore votre idée et la technique pour mesurer la pression de la machine 🥰
Hey thanks for your feedback, Fethi!
Translation for those of us who don't know the lovely language of France ;)
"Hi everyone and all lovers of good coffee ☕
I love your idea and the technique to measure the pressure of the machine 🥰"
I got the 885. Whe I put in finely ground coffe it stops after a few seconds and doesnt extract anymore. If I go coarser it runs through too fast...
Hola Tom, en primer lugar felicitarte por lo ingenioso del experimento, es un buen método para medir la presión. Sin embargo, la presión que estás midiendo es la máxima que puede producir la cafetera, no tiene por qué ser, y de hecho no lo será, la presión a la que se está "cocinando" el café. Si quieres saber la presión cuando el café está saliendo, tienes que dejar salir la misma agua que cuando hay café, ya que la presión depende del caudal. De hecho, si pones la bomba de presión a funcionar sin filtro, no hay presión en la cesta ya que no hay resistencia, tengas la bomba que tengas.
Sería interesante que repitieras en vídeo dejando salir la misma cantidad de agua que cuando haces el café, éso sí que sería indicativo de la presión. Gracias de nuevo.
Great experiment!!! 👍👍👍 But measuring the pressure of the old machine I noticed the 'descaling' light is flashing. It would be interesting to see how the pressure will change after descaling the machine! 🤔
Great point! I descaled recently, and the pressure reading was the same. I do descale regularly. Cheers!
My EC680 started to do weird things. It just stops pulling a shot if I grinded a bit too fine. I've seen videos where Dedica even it was choked (dripping very slowly) but it kept pumping water up to 50 seconds. I replaced the pump, cleaned the flowmeter, descaled the machine, and changed the OPV valve. It still doing the same thing. Steam works just fine, I can steam my milk as long as I want. Just hot water also coming pretty quick out of the brewing head. And it can finish a shot if it not very fine (usually it takes just about 20 sec for 16g of grounded coffee, anything finer will force machine to stop). The machine does that "pre-infusion" pump, wait, then it pumps for a while (3-6 sec maybe) and stops. Any ideas of what it could be or what I could check further? 😬😬
I noticed the descaling light was flashing on the old machine. Would the 7 bar result be higher if it had been descaled prior to the test?
Hey Tom. Thanks a lot awesome video. Do you think it's possible to install a pressure gauge connect inside the machine to check the pressure during the shot? Cheers!
Hey Rafael, I think that might be possible. I plan to look into it in the future, to see what that mod would entail. Cheers!
Excellent video, love the Hoffman reference and spoon.. would I be right then in saying 9 bar and 30 seconds would be similar to your 11 bar and 21 seconds?
That’s probably a good estimation. 👍🏻
so much fun. Scientific!
Thanks for this very nice and interesting video!
I would also be curious about how the temperatures differ between the two machines, this might even have a stronger impact on the taste than the maximum pressure your machines achieve - potentially, the extraction pressure is not the same as the maximum in both cases... Just thinking out loud... 🤔
You are right, Piet. The pressure has more to do with puck preparation than max pressure. However, lowering the max pressure which can be applied to the puck does seem to have a difference in taste. Hitting the puck with a lower max pressure seems to allow for less channeling, and better overall extraction, but maybe that is just me. Cheers!
Is 7 bar need more coarser grind than the 11 bar? To get similar taste?
Hey Nice vidéo, just a question where did you got your bottomless portafilter for dedica ? It's home made or bought item ? Thx
I made it! Check out the short video here: czcams.com/video/PYHISoQ-3qI/video.html
Thanks for your great work.👍
Haven't the pressure be the same,
if the extraction time stays constant, because of the pressure-flow-characteristic of the pump?
The pressure is affected by the flow, which is highly minimized if you have the water bypass through the OPV via shortened or weakened spring.
What grind setting did you use to get that extraction with 11bar? Mine pulls through very watery with an open basket by the end even at very fine grind. I thought it was too much pressure but yours looks fine.
It depends a lot on the bean. Need freshly roasted beans! Cheers
Great video as always Tom!
Have you tried to do a temperature profiling on the Dedica? I know that the Dedica comes with 3 temperature settings, but I'm not really sure what temperature I'm supposed to have with one setting or another.
Hey Alin, I just use the hot setting, and I get about 89 degrees celsius maximum during the brew. I have not experimented yet with the other lower temps too much yet.
I tried with the other two temp setting but got the same temp of 89 degrees
@@a.rincon2748 Haha, ok thanks for that info, Rincon! I should see if I come up with the same result...
Hey, nice content. Would have been a better comparison if you'd have altered your grind size to match the shot time for the two pressures given we're trying to increase extraction by brewing with finer coffee. Don't know if you remember me from the last video but I'm doing my own version of this mod and have just measured a new opv spring at roughly 0.98 n/mm so I'm guessing 0.57 for 6.5 bar, 0.8 for 9 bar. Going to re-do the experiment hopefully with a little greater accuracy, let me know if you're interested to hear the result.
Hey Laurence! How did you measure the n/mm on your springs? Yes, I would be very curious to hear about your results.
By the way, both the 7 and 11 bar extractions took 23 seconds including pre-infusion, which seems counterintuitive. But sure next time I could try grinding a little coarser for the lower pressure one.
Is there another way to measure the current pressure of my dedica? Don't want to spend so much money just for a one time use.. And great video, thanks!!
Not that I know of, Fatih! Unless you install a manometer permanently within the casing. That might be a cool project.
Excellent video, cheers from London England 👍😎🏴🇬🇧
Thank you! Cheers!
Does it also work with a coffee pad?
And after how manny years has this delonghi a malfunction in the internal spring etc.
Yes, it works with the ESE pads. I have not had a problem with the internal spring.
Really great series. However - and this is not really a criticism - but how did you calibrate your tool? I learned from this that an old machine loses a material amount of pressure vs a new one and that alone is helpful, but absent proper calibration I don't really buy into the absolute figures stated. Still great videos tho, as a Dedica owner you are doing a LOT to answer some of teh questons I have! Thanks
Hey Dave, I just have to trust that the gauge is accurate enough, since I have no way of calibrating.
Anyway, at least we can compare the differences between machines and between and older and new machine. Or, you can check to see if the pressure is way down, due to something broken (see OPV video).
Cheers!
Excellent question. I am dealing with that same question for blood pressure monitors. My BP at home and at the docs office differ but as neither can be calibrated it's just ballpark stuff.
You made so many videos about Dedica so it would be great if you make another one about how to fix this 6 bar presure problem. Can we replace or fix some components? Thank you! ☕
If you grind and distribute properly, you won't hit the 11-12 bars - you'll hit closer to 8-9. The OPV acts as a gate; only restricting the pressure when it hits a certain threshold. Good luck!
So I’m considering buying one of these but having watched your other video about modifications and upgrades…. Wouldn’t I be better off just buying a better machine from tue outset? Like a Gaggia Classic Pro for example? Maybe almost double the price but maybe worth it?
Well, in Europe, the Gaggia costs 3x the Dedica, so that is quite a difference. I did make a video comparing the two machines. In the end, you have to go for what you prefer. Maybe not based on perceived value, but other intangibles like looks and ergonomics. To be, the espresso is not 3x better on the GCP compared to the Dedica. You could also consider a lever machine like a used La Pavoni or a new Flair. Those should provide great espresso, but a more cumbersome workflow.
would there be a easy fix to raise the bar pressure on the older dedica? change a spring etc?
Hmm, I mean you could put an even stronger spring in the OPV, but I would not suggest doing it. It is also a safety valve, so I think it is best to leave it as is. The machine provides 8-9 bars of pressure in its unmodified state, with an unpressurized filter, so I think that is good.
Hey Tom. Based on your usage, how often do you need to calibrate your machine so that it can achieve 9 bar of pressure? I can't wait to see the next video.
Haha, I was surprised to find out the pressures to be honest. I guess they'd have to be recalibrated once a year probably.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I'm picking up a used Dedica tomorrow for $40 and I think the mushroom pin needs to be replaced from the OPV. I got the STL file so hopefully I can get it 3D printed and make it work again.
Does the OVP have any relation to the amount of steam coming through the steam wand? I have had my machine about 18 months, have regularly cleaned but the steam coming from the wand is pitiful. Do you have any advice? It would be gratefully received
Only if the OPV is defective, will it have an effect on the steam pressure. Maybe that's the case on your unit?
Instead of the elbow, put a T junction on the portafilter and a ball valve on the bottom of the junction. Then you can release/bleed off the pressure in the portafilter.
I have dedica 685 and it seems as it can push coffee/watter trough, was on service but they said its fine. What could it be?
Maybe you have a little video to show what you mean?
At the moment, my dedica machine is applying 11 bar pressure then. I'm using a non-pressure portafilter on the Ec685 model. Is it correct?
No, that is just the maximum pressure possible. The actual pressure depends on your coffee puck preparation.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner There are big differences with 9 bar machines, right?
Oops, I just bought a second hand Dedica machine a couple of days ago that was used for one year according to previous owner, does it mean it is already lost a part of its original pressure?
Hey Rachid, I doubt it will have lost much pressure over 1 year. To everyone else: don't worry so much about the lost pressure. It takes years, and even then you can buy a maintenance kit for your pump (glass ball and O rings), or replace the pump. But it will take years to get to that point. Just enjoy your coffee. ☕️ 🙋🏼♂️
Cool vid!! So where is the 15 bar spec delonghi claims? Could be just a matter of marketing thing? Or the OPV opens in fact at 11 bar and the pump spec is 15 bar? In any case 11 in better than 15 😉
I am guessing the pump IS rated for 15 bar, but that the OVP is calibrated to 11-12 bar. I think the marketing team just figured, "hey, 15 bar sounds waaaay better than 11 bar!"
Do you recommend using a screen with your non-pressurized basket?
No, I never noticed a difference. But maybe my palate is not developed enough to know...
Which adjustable opv could fit Dedica?
Sorry, but none that I have found.
❤ temper specail
I got my machine 2 monthes ago. I ve tried every possible setting to get a crema and no good result. Can you help me
Hey Tamer, please try these two videos. I made them specifically to answer this question:
How to Get Crema: czcams.com/video/00NSG9459a8/video.html
Good vs Bad Coffee: czcams.com/video/5BgMKqu8fJI/video.html
Interesting
Mr Hoffman's spoons even gave their own carry case... I prefer your green one, less pretentious 😀
Hehehe, thanks! 🙋🏼♂️ I just had to make the reference, as I really do like his videos.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I do too, but I prefer yours... More real
Здравствуйте Том!! Прошу посоветовать хорошую ручную кофемолку, подходящую для Дедики 885.. Есть бесдонный фильтр, корзина без давления. Какая кофемолка даст наилучший помол?? Заранее благодарен!
Depends on your budget and market. Where are you shopping?
I wonder how a proper descale would effect on the pressure of the old machine?
If the machine had been regularly descaled, I don't think much difference at all. If the machine was exposed to bad calcified water for years without descaling, then eventually also the pump would be affected.
I can't seem to get an extraction in the 25-30s range with 18g coffee and 36g out. It appears the machine over-pressurizes, i see the lights flash a few times and the machine stops mid-way through the extraction. I can get around a 20s extraction, but when i adjust the grind a bit finer, I run into the issue again. I have a 1ZPresso Jmax grinder, I'm using a non-pressurized basket, and have tried various beans, so I think the machine needs a fix, it is like 10 years old.
Hmm, yes you have probably lost pump pressure in that time. I overhauled my 5 year old Dedica, and went from a max of 7 bar, to 11 bar afterwards.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Подскажите, у вас есть видео с ремонта вашей Dedica?
I think something is Brocken in my dedica .
I just let it run without any cofffee.
It pumps out 9 ml in the preinfusion and 125ml in 25 sec witch makes it to 5ml/s flowrate.
Whats your flowrate?
I measured exactly 14g
From pressing the start button to end 15 sec 34ml
I believe normal flow rate was either 6 or 8 ml/sec. I'd have to check again to be sure though.
I also build a pressure gauge myself to test my ovp pressure setting.
The pressure stops at 9bar.
Perhaps in newer models they changed something.
I looked up the datasheet in the ulka pump and it says 300ml/s at 9 bar. So it should be alright here.
In hotkoffee i found.
Ausgleichs- und Überdruckventil Saeco/Philips for 10bucks i alteady ordered forhand so i gonna replace it an see if i get the same pressure out.
There is also a mod that transfers the overpressure direkt behind the pump with the help of a T-adapter and an Y-adapter to adapt the in and outlets of the watertank. It should help not too fool the flowmeter . will do the mod also.
Interesting - you should post a video when you do it. Cheers!@@ninarise7841
The same espresso I tried in the coffee shop made with industrial machine can't make it with Delonghi Dedica though I believe I tried every trick I could think of.
Hey Taip, I don't think it is possible with a home machine to repeat what those machines can do, but we can try our best. Even my €1,500 La Spaziale dual boiler machine cannot make espresso as good as the industrial machines they have at cafes. Those cost up to €20,000 and have expensive grinders paired with them. Nevertheless, it's fun to try! Cheers ☕️
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks for your reply. I appreciate it very much. Well, I guess I will have to settle for less. Though I thought if the temperature is right and the pressure similar, and also having in mind the coffee grind, why not produce the same quality espresso.
@@taiptaipi8154 I think it's mainly because the temperature is not as high, nor as stable. Cheers!
You can install a 3 way valve, but you also can open the side lever...... i think
Hi Tom, the sourness is 99% from lower temperature of the old one 🫠 maybe shoot another video with a stock and opv modified new machine. It is very tricky to achieve a good shot from cheap delonghi models with thermoblock. Especially if it’s old. Descaling does not work well. It takes several descaling applications, back to back. Maybe check with a thermometer. Bye 👋
Hey there, I have checked with a thermometer. I made a video about temp surfing. If you temp surf, you can get an extraction around 92/93 degrees C, and a pretty flat curve, too.
what made me hit the like button was his joke about the fancy spoon
Should not the time be measured from the first drop of coffe instead the start of machine?
That is a debatable question. I feel like it should be measured when the pump starts, as the puck is absorbing water (tamp, grind and beans will affect how quickly water is absorbed and how much resistance is provided). Others say first drop. The main thing, like any measurement, is to be consistent. Cheers!
My coffee machine is when I start to shot the coffee, it loses a few drops of water through the milk steamer. what could it be?
Hmm, I haven't seen that with the Dedica, but I have seen it with many other machines. It normally means a valve needs replacing. How old is your machine?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner i think 3/4 years
@@joaopereira1935 Are you sure your steam dial is turned all the way off? If so, then perhaps the valve within the brew group is losing its seal. The water comes from the pump to the brew group, then is routed to the steam wand when the dial is turned on.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner yes its all closed.
@@joaopereira1935 Then I am afraid it doesn't look too good. I would try replacing this valve myself: www.juraprofi.de/DeLonghi-Ersatzteile/Ventile-und-Schalter/Dampf-Heisswasserventil-fuer-DeLonghi-EC::16324.html
I cannot get anywhere near that good of an extraction with my dedica, I have tried every grind setting.
Hello there! These videos may help:
How to Get Crema: czcams.com/video/00NSG9459a8/video.html
Why Supermarket Coffee Beans are RUINING your Espresso! czcams.com/video/5BgMKqu8fJI/video.html
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks. Might need to put that on hold as my grinder broke today.
Which coffee do you use ?
Hey Mihnea, that depends. The best are always fresh from your local roaster, but otherwise here are a few suggestions you can get online: kit.co/tomscoffeecorner/coffee-beans
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thank you very much !
Interesting. 11 bars ain’t too bad actually, and over time it’ll just get closer and closer to the desired 9 bars. By the time it drops to 7 bars the spring should be replaced anyway
Yes, I would say you're right. I was surprised my old machine is so low! Well anyway, cars lose compression, and I bet pumps do as well.
Hi. To restore the original pressure Just need change the opv or pump need change to?
@@joaopereira1935 Hey Joao, I am guessing that the silver machine will need a pump overhaul.I plan to do a future video about that.
Can you try descaling it then doing the pressure test again in a video?
Sure, I can descale and report back. But I don’t think it’s a descaling that’s the problem. The machine is five years old, and I think the pump needs a retrofit.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Retrofit change? Where/who can do that? :)))
can you upload the links with all parts because that in description is false
Ja kein Problem Tom, ich habe die Beschreibung mit einer Stückliste ergänzt. Ich glaube, das sind genau die Teile die ich beim heimischen Toom gefunden habe, aber da müsst du noch mal nachprüfen ob die Stücke zusammenpassen, im Laden. Gruß!
@@TomsCoffeeCornerThanks tom i just google translate it ,i dont know german .i just wanted a link of the pressure gauge tester, i dont know where to find it
@@2salonika I got it from Edesia in England, but they are currently out of stock.
www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B00ONTGKNA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Is extracting 7 bar excellent or not?
Hmm, I think it requires some experimentation. Some people love it, but I have not experimented enough yet to say.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Do you expect a 7-bar to bring out all the flavors in coffee, or a 9-bar to bring out all the flavors of coffee?
I wonder if the pressure is higher than what actually goes through your coffee since the pressure has nowhere to go?
I think that depends on the fineness of your grind and pressure of your tamp. One can even choke his machine if the grind is too fine, which would max out the pressure as well.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Actually pressure of the tamp makes no real difference (other CZcamsrs have done detailed experiments to show this). This is because the puck will swell up away, so actually the fullness of the basket is what really matters (along with the grind size), you need the basket full enough that it cannot swell too much and is limited by hitting the group head sieve. The only reason I tamp is so I can get a full 14g of grinds into the basket and still close the portafillter. In short, don't underfill your basket!
@@pax100 I can agree with this to an extent. I used to work at a high volume cafe. We had accurate dosing grinders that would dose 15.5 grams into a 53mm Dalle Corte basket. For cappuccinos we used one bean, which was automatically tamped with a Puqpress. But for espressos, we used a different bean, which had to be hand tamped. If I didn't tamp right, the shot would run in just 12-14 seconds. If I tamped the crap out of it, then I would get the desired 22-24 seconds. I was quite surprised at this, considering the dosage was the same, to have such a variance only based on tamp.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner When I grind too fine and choke the machine, I tamp lighter and get an even extraction and okay espresso (thus I don't have to throw away the coffee)
Is there any way to get 15 bar ??
Nope. The system maxes out at 11 bar. But you don't want 15 bar anyway. It would erode the puck too quickly.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner i just bay a new machine café its support 20 bar but im getting 5 to 6 par only 😥
I guess that pressure is much lower during extraction. Pressure may reach 12-15 bars with the blind filter, but will never hit this level during the extraction.
That is right, Stepan, it maxes at 11 bar, but during the extraction it is around 9 bar.
dedica vs gaggia classic who is the best?
Dedica wins with ergonomics and features.
Gaggia Classic Pro wins with espresso taste and milk texture.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you very much ❤️
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Curious since i have both and the whole family likes the Dedica way better.Gaggia is way more bitter and tart which indicates over extraction.
@@cristim9779 Which model of the Gaggia? It has changed over the years, and the 2015 to 2018 models were quite different on the inside. The Gaggia can make some great shots too, in my experience, but your mileage may vary.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner It's the same one you've got. 2018 is named in Europe.
Wow, good to know my brand new Delonghi will age like a nice bottle of balsamic vinegar. No need to upgrade because the pressure is too high. It will one day be producing 9 bars like the big boys.
🤣
I see 10 bar on the gauge. Am i not seeing well?
Hey Christi, the camera angle was a little disadvantageous…looking directly above it was about 11 bar.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner For it to be 11 bar it had to be exactly in the middle between 10 and 12 which it wasn't no matter of the camera angle.
@@cristim9779 Hmm, I just tested it again. It does shortly hit 11 bars, then goes back down to 10-10.5.
What a great video! And now I know why my shots taste like s**t
And look what I found. czcams.com/video/kordyFR2Q5Y/video.html A video discussing the perfect pressure. So I presume that I need to dial in my shot in a different way assuming that my dear old EC680 is around 7 bars..
Well.....I am not sure you can assume that your machine has the same pressure. It kinda needs to be measured. How old is your machine?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner the machine is from August 2017.
@@moripottkanal Yeah ok, well then it is probably low on pressure. But, I have read there are pump kits with gaskets and a glass bearing, that should help increase pressure again. Maybe I will do a video about it.
The acidity that you tasted on ur 7bar's was due to the wrong grinder settings, you see less pressure means the flow rate was slower than the other one and you can't pull the shots on the same grinder setting, I learned all the extractions through Decent's channel and for chocolatey beans that go higher temps, at 92c to pull 1.5:1 ratio in the cup, with 4ml/s flow rate, either drink it neat or americano, it tastes better, one piece of espresso extraction that almost all of us, may be the rest of world has omitted is the solvability of the beans, darker the roaste and the beans tend to give up their materials easier therefore not like what we have been told that you need lower brew temps bla bla, higher temps extraction more and therefore go finer and less ratio(1.5:1) that unlock its real flavor with less bitterness, and fruity and floral beans need complete different recipes to unlock its true potential.
I think you make some good points. But strangely, the 7 bar shot took just about the same time to reach a 2:1 ratio, as the 11 bar shot. That is what baffles me a bit. Trying a turbo shot with a coarser grind could be fun though, on the 7 bar machine. Thanks for your input! 🙋🏼♂️
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Forget about turbo shot, because that paper wasn't talking about less soluble of the light roasted beans, but purely onto the grind size and pressure, however, those two are supposed to integrate with coffee beans to get higher TDS and fruity bomb tasty shot, with flat profile machines, the allongé is the receipt that we should have do, I've been pulling allongé for over a month with my mod 310, fruity bombs as Scott Rao said.
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Fruity bombs sounds like a worthy goal. What is an "allongé"? I have never heard of that before...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Allongé is one of the expresso recipes to truly unlock the potential of light roasted beans, we as the rest of coffee world that never truly understand the espresso before the Decent espresso machine came out, because all the flat profile machines that don't provide feedback, espresso is about receipt, not one of those flat white whatsoever stuff but get to the potential of the beans, that kind of recipe, I have been enjoying those recipes thanks to Decent and their contributions, watch their channel's videos with no skip xx seconds if you are interested into it.
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Thank you. I know of the Decent machine, but have not seen many videos on it yet, since it is quite out of my price range. But it would be good to glean some information from the channel. I will check it out.
The advertised 15 bars are probably at pump and not in the groupset.
Yes, I think you are right about that, Jan. The pump is probably rated for a max of 15 bar.
Interesting video, but I think the pressure would be different when you put different loads on the machine. In your experiment you have totally blocked the output. It would be great if you invent a gadget to measure the pressure during a real extraction.
Hey Maryam, I am starting to realize that you're right. Nevertheless, it is still interesting to see what pressure these systems build up.
If u make a pressure thing put a relief valve on it
Hey Randy, that’s a good point. 👍🏻
Put a valve in line
You bet! czcams.com/video/Scsm9Vw6JrA/video.html
in my opinion, the test methodology is not good. The pressure should be measured on an "open" portafilter, limited only by poured and compacted coffee. this test only shows the pressure generated by the "blocked" coffee machine
Hey there! You know, when I got the La Spaziale (which has an adjustable OPV), I was taught to adjust the OPV in this manner, with a portafilter manometer.
But, I am beginning to think that you're right, and that I need to mount an inline manometer as well. Some people also recommend a "diaphragm" manometer.
Unfortunately this measurement is incorrect. you did not measure the actual pressure above the tampered coffee pod, but an extreme situation which is the clogged portafilter.
Yes, I ended up measuring the max pressure.
just as i sold my dedica:(
You can always buy another - there's lots on the used market!
You are using a unpressurized basket, despite the ability of the machine on work in high preassure, preassure is not needed in that basket, the difference in the taste is because the old one needs to be cleaned, look at the right button tilting in red, that means you need to decalcify your machine
Hey Ivan, I do descale regularly, so I don't believe that is making a difference on the pressure. The pump is probably 5-6 years old, and could use an overhaul.
Oh, and unpressurized baskets do still need 9 bars of pressure...they just don't need 12-15 bars.
Cheers! -T
You should have tasted the espresso before you measured the pressures.
Yes, that is a good idea. Next time! Cheers!
why do you weigh the coffee powder? I just fill it in and dont make a science out of it... its just coffee. Jesus Christ!
Because coffee ratios are important to taste, big time. Cheers!
Nice video but if you can tell the difference between 7 and 11 bars, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. sorry.
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