@@unculturedswine5583 There's yet another way to interpret his statement. "I am particularly good at lockpicking but that is not why it was so easy to pick this lock."
The keyway/keyshape somewhat spells out EVVA. EVVA beeing a trademark, they can restrict the key blanks. A lot of companies do just that - use their brand name as key profile. As some markets require restricted blanks, using the brand name is the cheapest way to legally restrict blanks. The nasty keyway is just a side product of the restricted blank.
SEGA lost a case in court when they did something similar with software which was meant to prevent third party cartridges from working in a Sega Genesis. I wonder if that would apply to locks, since the basic idea is exactly the same.
@@GamesFromSpace There's a bit of a difference between restricting gaming cartridges in your system and restricting the keys that fit into the locks you make, I'd argue.
@@Freddy96LP Well, feel free to actually make the argument :P But trying to use trademark law as ad-hoc "copy protection" is the same whether it's a bit of metal or a bit of computer software.
@@GamesFromSpace - It's obviously not though. In one case you're making a lock and key that is meant to have very restricted access by definition. On the other hand you have a game console where the (only) reason for restricting that access is to protect your monopoly/profit. That's clearly not "the same".
@@TheMrVengeance In both cases it is a thing designed to restrict access.... *What* it's protecting doesn't matter, only that it is restricting access by using a trademark, and trademark law is not for that. In either case it is a lock which requires a key. They even call both of them a key.
@@michagrill9432 just incase you want one dude to be able to open everything, cause he is too lazy / someone loses a key, thankfully you have a back up / bricking it's security for tacticool espionage
So basically they were hoping that nasty keyway would deter anyone from trying and as you stated you didn’t think you would be able to at first so I guess it actually works to some effect.
Many locksmiths do not focus on the master key effect you so nicely show here. I try to limit simple systems to 5 fixed and one chamber with multiple wafers. but the best way is like the d12, because one of the double cuts can be lower, as long as one cut lift the pin to the right height. so simple systems can be made without using master wafers
I think I could listen to podcasts from LPL... who cares about the video or the locks... just a little click on one, 2 is binding... nice and relaxing... good for going to sleep :D
Fact. I do listen to him to fall asleep. Then, I hear something interesting, and finally watch the video till the end, one or two eyes open... It gets me sleepy for sure, and it's sooooo relaxing and satisfying....but I'm too curious! (Listen to Quinn's Ideas sum up of Dune books, perfect for falling asleep, and such amazing quality content!)
What a bugger of a keyway! LL, you have a terrific collection of locks and I find your videos and commentary very easy to watch. Also, great pick by the way! I look forward to more videos from you!
Great keyway and nicely picked with the twist technique. When you showed the keyway at the end I could see holes in the warding. Did you try to pick through these holes? Also, will you change the driver pins and try picking the lock again without master wafers?
So now we know where the name Master Keying came from. Turn any brand no matter how secure into a Master Lock using our patented Master Keying technique. “Master keying makes Master locks”
What blows me away is that all these lock companies make this stuff for a living, it’s their job, the only thing they have to worry about, and yet it appears some rather enthusiastic hobby lock picker can defeat their best efforts at security. If I was one of their design engineers, I’d be ashamed to show my face in the lunchroom. The CEO should send a memo saying “ the next lock you design is being sent to this fellow, the Lock Picking Lawyer, and if he opens it up lickety split, you’re all fired!
@@edthegoomba You missed his joke. Master lock is a company that makes locks that are easy to pick. A master keyed lock is one that accepts a regular key and a master key to open.
I love your videos so much! I'm watching 10 a day until I've seen them all and then I will watch them all again! Thanks a million! You've inspired me to get some good picks and locks and be a lockpicker! :)
Instructive, as always. Naming the parts of the lock is helpful in developing the correct vocabulary, as is identifying the various manufacturers. It might be helpful, as well, to critique the tools as you use them. “Easy to pick up” or “quality finish without burrs” and so on.
Why do key makers make keys so much taller than they need to be? Wouldn’t having a shorter key instead of taking up the extra space with more bidding make picking harder?
great vid, new to your channel but so far I've really enjoyed what your doing. i love lock picking and been subbed to bill for years. do you really practice law? cant wait to see more
A really high cut serrated pin in chamber #5 (no other changes) would have made this lock much harder to pick. This lock was as easy as a Master #3, excluding the paracentric keyway. With proper pins, this could make an excellent challenge lock.
Maybe whoever setup this lock thought the zigzag keyway would be enough of a deterrent to keep people from picking it... Or they didn't intend to have a Master Key for this lock in the beginning... Which makes me wonder, is it possible to retrofit an existing lock with a Master Key?
wouldn't it be really simple to make a lock even more pickproof by deepening that zigzag significantly more? you could quite easily make a thicker key that fits a keyway with the zigzag warding protruding past the center. it would make a lot of use of the fact that unlike picks, keys don't need to be able to move in the direction of the pins at all. the deeper and sharper you make the zigzag, the less room for movement there is for a pick, but it's really no problem to make a key that fits.
It was probably designed as more of deterent than needing high security but quick access for those that have this unique key. A good example of this use would be for use on a security display in a store.
" ...because of the flaws in whomever set this lock up." Oo, brutal! (I suspect he meant to say "because of the flaws introduced by whomever set this lock up," but still, made me chuckle.)
Hi LPL, any recommendations for a beginners pick and insert set? Not looking to spend a lot but I'm worried some of the really cheap stuff might bend when stubborn pins bind etc. I have no experience but I'm confident I could easily pick my friends cheap padlock open, and I want to show him so he gets something better!
Is there such a thing in locking pins as full-length pins that are one piece? if those exist, would it have made the picking process more difficult? "Full-length" meaning, of course, that it goes all the way to it's intended height in the keyway once the key is inserted.
well done ... I agree with you. Had problems with the sets of individual pins for a long time, but now it is no longer a problem and relative opening under five minutes is possible
So, am I understanding it correctly that you could maintain the idea of master keying, but keep security, if you put something mean in 4 and/or 5 and put the master wafers up front?
could very well be part of the reason, but "saving cost" will be stronger factor. And: the front door would have the weakest lock, when any room key can act as "night key". The hotel room door on the other hand only really needs to accept two keys: The actual room key and a master key for the staff. For that, only one key pin of each lock needs to be mastered, meaning having to have two shear lines. One pin being easier then usual should not make that much of a difference. One pin should be a standard pin any way - all security pins (like spool, mushroom, ...) would mean the lock would go into a false set before picking any pin. that would "feel" bad/cheap.
Not necessarily. As well as the HLK and the individual room key working the lock, you could also have maintenance/contractor keys, cleaner keys (if the managers do not want them to have access to office areas), and potentially a sub master key for each building level as well. It really depends on the hotel managers and what services require access.
Can anyone explain, since all the wafers were in the Bible and only single key pins remained in the plug when disassembled, how this explanation can be correct? Surely all key pins HAD been raised to the shear line for it to disassemble that way after picking?
But, again... couldn't an advanced keyway deter the novice or moderate picker? I know that if I saw that, I'd just give up. FYI, I just picked my first lock last month! lol
I wonder how many people are inspired to become criminals from watching your videos. Lol... but seriously, the value in these is really for the people who buy these products and value security.
If that lock uses .115 diameter pins, you should use some of my wafer driver pins I make. Let me know if you'd like to try some out and I'll send you enough to fill the pin stack.
Hi LPL, can you do the EVVA 4KS? This is a cylinder I want to use and I'm really interested what you think of it (and that type of lock in general). Thanks!
the master keying didnt even effect your picking... if it was easy because of the master keying the master pins would have been in the plug not in the bible...
Magnet Man loose meaning it is not the binding pin. Every lock has a binding order in the pins, just how it is. When you put tension on the lock one or two pins at a time will be harder to lift than the others, or binding. Those are the ones you want to lift up and set. That click is the sound of the pin setting or him dropping into a false set. A loose pin is not Binding, and you don’t need to worry ab then because they can’t be set until they bind, and pushing it up it’ll just fall back down.
@AR-Gaming they typically pull the uncut cores through a series of knives with teeth on them. each knife is higher than the next buillding the keyway to it's final shape. the knives are also shaped like the keyway depending on the hight of the cut it is responsible for
So that you can have a master key that can access numerous locks. Each will have an individual correct key but with the master wafers they can have more than one combination to open it.
its crazy how much easier master wafers can allow a lock to open, with all those extra shear lines.Thats why I like Yales old school. Bicentric Mortice and padlocks. You can have a master core and a user core, that way you don't have to use master wafers. Like these www.simon-says.net/lds3/vt_build_me_one.htm
![[636] Bowley Lock Analysis and Update](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qV8QKZNFxLw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[636] Bowley Lock Analysis and Update](/img/tr.png)
![[514] Yimeijia Mortise Cylinder (13 Pins in 3 Rows!) Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1Py2xIFwWQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[530] Julian & Tobias' Triple Challenge Lock Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FR6YrwiPqCg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[302] Avocet ABS Cylinder (Pin-in-Pin, Magnetic Pins, 6 Trap Pins!) Picked and Gutted](/img/n.gif)
"...and it wasn't because I'm particularly good at picking..." Come on, man.
But he is tho lmao
1:24
Come on man, look at his explanation at the end. It really isn't picking.
@@max_ishere well yeah, I think he's just saying that the statement is wrong, regardless of this lock, he is particularly good at picking.
@@unculturedswine5583 There's yet another way to interpret his statement. "I am particularly good at lockpicking but that is not why it was so easy to pick this lock."
*LockingPickingLawyer:* "Relatively Difficult" *Mere Mortals:* "Absolutely Impossible"
So moral of the story is don't judge a lock by its keyway
That's deep.
Deep, until you thing about the "key that open many lock and lock that are opened by many key" joke ...
Then it's ruined.
That key way is definitely a roastie.
Can she still working without the master wafers.
The keyway/keyshape somewhat spells out EVVA. EVVA beeing a trademark, they can restrict the key blanks. A lot of companies do just that - use their brand name as key profile. As some markets require restricted blanks, using the brand name is the cheapest way to legally restrict blanks. The nasty keyway is just a side product of the restricted blank.
SEGA lost a case in court when they did something similar with software which was meant to prevent third party cartridges from working in a Sega Genesis. I wonder if that would apply to locks, since the basic idea is exactly the same.
@@GamesFromSpace There's a bit of a difference between restricting gaming cartridges in your system and restricting the keys that fit into the locks you make, I'd argue.
@@Freddy96LP Well, feel free to actually make the argument :P
But trying to use trademark law as ad-hoc "copy protection" is the same whether it's a bit of metal or a bit of computer software.
@@GamesFromSpace - It's obviously not though. In one case you're making a lock and key that is meant to have very restricted access by definition. On the other hand you have a game console where the (only) reason for restricting that access is to protect your monopoly/profit.
That's clearly not "the same".
@@TheMrVengeance In both cases it is a thing designed to restrict access.... *What* it's protecting doesn't matter, only that it is restricting access by using a trademark, and trademark law is not for that.
In either case it is a lock which requires a key. They even call both of them a key.
Master keying, reducing the security of locks since 1899.
Whats uts purpose anyway?
@@michagrill9432 just incase you want one dude to be able to open everything, cause he is too lazy / someone loses a key, thankfully you have a back up / bricking it's security for tacticool espionage
@@drafay Yeah i understand it now and i knew what it was before just not the english term since it isnt my first language
"Ok, today we've got an impossible lock to pick... aaaaaaand it's picked".
well, It did end up to be a video of 9 minutes!
replace the master wavers and put security pins in there as a challenge lock to yourself and to everyone
*wafers
Mmm. . .wafers
Even better waffles. Particularly mixed berry waffles and lots of syrup yum
Janes Fair Don't be silly, that'd gunge up the lock.
@@paulsmith3266 at least itd be hard to pick 🤷♀️😂
So basically they were hoping that nasty keyway would deter anyone from trying and as you stated you didn’t think you would be able to at first so I guess it actually works to some effect.
Alternative title: "How to turn a 5-pin lock into a 2-pin lock with master keying"
Great explanation of how the master pins impacted the picking of the lock.
Many locksmiths do not focus on the master key effect you so nicely show here. I try to limit simple systems to 5 fixed and one chamber with multiple wafers.
but the best way is like the d12, because one of the double cuts can be lower, as long as one cut lift the pin to the right height. so simple systems can be made without using master wafers
A surprisingly good design.
Get rid of the master wafers, and throw in a couple of mushroom pins and you’ve got yourself a CONTENDER !
I think it would be interesting to see if you could pick it with a dimple pick. It was certainly my first thought to circumvent the warding.
I think I could listen to podcasts from LPL... who cares about the video or the locks... just a little click on one, 2 is binding... nice and relaxing... good for going to sleep :D
I told my wife that last week! She still doesn’t get it ...
Fact. I do listen to him to fall asleep.
Then, I hear something interesting, and finally watch the video till the end, one or two eyes open...
It gets me sleepy for sure, and it's sooooo relaxing and satisfying....but I'm too curious!
(Listen to Quinn's Ideas sum up of Dune books, perfect for falling asleep, and such amazing quality content!)
Voice over/narration is a high paying career! Kinda like high end lawyer or higher I’d guess.
Lokbang
A lot of people care for the locks and the video.
What a bugger of a keyway! LL, you have a terrific collection of locks and I find your videos and commentary very easy to watch.
Also, great pick by the way! I look forward to more videos from you!
Great keyway and nicely picked with the twist technique. When you showed the keyway at the end I could see holes in the warding. Did you try to pick through these holes? Also, will you change the driver pins and try picking the lock again without master wafers?
So now we know where the name Master Keying came from. Turn any brand no matter how secure into a Master Lock using our patented Master Keying technique. “Master keying makes Master locks”
What blows me away is that all these lock companies make this stuff for a living, it’s their job, the only thing they have to worry about, and yet it appears some rather enthusiastic hobby lock picker can defeat their best efforts at security. If I was one of their design engineers, I’d be ashamed to show my face in the lunchroom. The CEO should send a memo saying “ the next lock you design is being sent to this fellow, the Lock Picking Lawyer, and if he opens it up lickety split, you’re all fired!
Fascinating. So sometimes a horrid keyway might be hiding a master keyed set up. Lol
Zig zags in the keyway low key spell EVVA and or the weed man was really looking out this morning
I wasn't able to pick... a few moments later: "o no it's pretty easy actually"
Ok looking at it: drill it.
YOU are not from this planet. You can see through your pick.
Do you have a video on what does the terms you use when picking the lock means? like loose or binding? thanks
When it has a Master key, it must be a Master lock.
That is why you opened it so fast. :)
Was that not his entire point for why it was easy?
@@edthegoomba You missed his joke. Master lock is a company that makes locks that are easy to pick. A master keyed lock is one that accepts a regular key and a master key to open.
I love your videos so much! I'm watching 10 a day until I've seen them all and then I will watch them all again! Thanks a million! You've inspired me to get some good picks and locks and be a lockpicker! :)
Fast pick as you say, great job :-)
Instructive, as always.
Naming the parts of the lock is helpful in developing the correct vocabulary, as is identifying the various manufacturers. It might be helpful, as well, to critique the tools as you use them. “Easy to pick up” or “quality finish without burrs” and so on.
Why do key makers make keys so much taller than they need to be? Wouldn’t having a shorter key instead of taking up the extra space with more bidding make picking harder?
Did you file a single pin for 3, 4, and 5 before you reassembled?
I literally fall asleep to ur vids every night lol, ur voice is rlly soothing.
Imagine falling asleep and then hearing "click out of one, click out of two, three's binding , nothing on four"
great vid, new to your channel but so far I've really enjoyed what your doing. i love lock picking and been subbed to bill for years. do you really practice law? cant wait to see more
A really high cut serrated pin in chamber #5 (no other changes) would have made this lock much harder to pick. This lock was as easy as a Master #3, excluding the paracentric keyway. With proper pins, this could make an excellent challenge lock.
+Thor Lancaster I agree. The bitting took the challenge out of this one.
Just picked my first amateur see-through lock! Woo-hoo!
2 months late but congrats!
2 years late but congrats!
EVVA is pronounced "effa", like "efford" but with an "a" at the end instead of "ord". It's from an Austrian manufacturer.
I was looking for that commenthahaha
Maybe whoever setup this lock thought the zigzag keyway would be enough of a deterrent to keep people from picking it...
Or they didn't intend to have a Master Key for this lock in the beginning...
Which makes me wonder, is it possible to retrofit an existing lock with a Master Key?
Definitely possible. Just a matter of doing math for the master wafer thickness, and cutting the new key to match.
wouldn't it be really simple to make a lock even more pickproof by deepening that zigzag significantly more? you could quite easily make a thicker key that fits a keyway with the zigzag warding protruding past the center. it would make a lot of use of the fact that unlike picks, keys don't need to be able to move in the direction of the pins at all. the deeper and sharper you make the zigzag, the less room for movement there is for a pick, but it's really no problem to make a key that fits.
It was probably designed as more of deterent than needing high security but quick access for those that have this unique key. A good example of this use would be for use on a security display in a store.
Great illustration of the change the master keying makes!
These are basically ASMR videos for me when I'm feeling anxious. This guy should be on talk radio 😂
Another monster teeth keyway. I love those things! So intimidating without knowing what truly lied inside that one.
I keep thinking we should swap c clip tools. He has ones I would love, and I have the ones he's missing
Great job picking as always brother and thanks for sharing it with us
The "Bob Ross" of lock picking.
"Those who are good at their craft, tend to downplay their own skill and say they're not as good as they really are."
-Me
I think a lock manufacturer would do good to use a guy like you 🤑
Your channel is growing fast! Great to see
" ...because of the flaws in whomever set this lock up." Oo, brutal!
(I suspect he meant to say "because of the flaws introduced by whomever set this lock up," but still, made me chuckle.)
Yeah, getting a little personal there, right? :D
Ahh, a cam lock. Gotta protect your cam. it's an expensive car upgrade.
I’d switch the two pieces of the master pin that compromised the lock around
Hi LPL, any recommendations for a beginners pick and insert set? Not looking to spend a lot but I'm worried some of the really cheap stuff might bend when stubborn pins bind etc. I have no experience but I'm confident I could easily pick my friends cheap padlock open, and I want to show him so he gets something better!
That top ten vid brought me here. You earned another like!
"We were only able to get through this because.. because of the flaws in whomever set this lock up." 🤣
are the plugs always the same size? they seem to be.
The real question is, who does LPL consider to be “particularly good at picking”?
How did you learn to pick locks? Was it through trade school or were you self taught/apprenticed?
I think he did it sort of by himself. Look at his first video. They are numbered.
So you finally defeat this lock.
Good job
Is there such a thing in locking pins as full-length pins that are one piece? if those exist, would it have made the picking process more difficult? "Full-length" meaning, of course, that it goes all the way to it's intended height in the keyway once the key is inserted.
I'm glad they didn't master key all five pins.
Do you narrate as youre picking, or voice-over, after the fact?
He narrates as he goes
well done ... I agree with you. Had problems with the sets of individual pins for a long time, but now it is no longer a problem and relative opening under five minutes is possible
Would a flattened out tip ~ 2mm filed to a short hook of a paperclip w/ a folded over handle work on those paracentric keyways?
Master keys always reduce the security of the lock.
xrayneoo master locks reduce the security of the everything 😸
Mad skills. Cheers! Chris.
So, am I understanding it correctly that you could maintain the idea of master keying, but keep security, if you put something mean in 4 and/or 5 and put the master wafers up front?
some locks have a guard so you cannot get picking tools in them. id love to see you give one a go
If that guard can be opened by a key, then it probably can with a pick as well
It's what made hotel rooms so susceptible to Bogata and rake picking.
could very well be part of the reason, but "saving cost" will be stronger factor. And: the front door would have the weakest lock, when any room key can act as "night key". The hotel room door on the other hand only really needs to accept two keys: The actual room key and a master key for the staff. For that, only one key pin of each lock needs to be mastered, meaning having to have two shear lines. One pin being easier then usual should not make that much of a difference. One pin should be a standard pin any way - all security pins (like spool, mushroom, ...) would mean the lock would go into a false set before picking any pin. that would "feel" bad/cheap.
Not necessarily. As well as the HLK and the individual room key working the lock, you could also have maintenance/contractor keys, cleaner keys (if the managers do not want them to have access to office areas), and potentially a sub master key for each building level as well. It really depends on the hotel managers and what services require access.
mutzeh this is why pinning tables are so important, isn’t it? Keeping track of this must be a beast of a job.
My parents have evva skg's (i think?) On their doors, what do you think about that lock? Is it comparable to this one?
Only MCS is not crackable. Sigh.
Very cool. Sure is a scary looking keway. As you've shown though, don't let the look of it scare you. :)
What the heck are master wafers and their purose???
Can anyone explain, since all the wafers were in the Bible and only single key pins remained in the plug when disassembled, how this explanation can be correct? Surely all key pins HAD been raised to the shear line for it to disassemble that way after picking?
He inserted the _key_ before disassembling.
Of course! Silly me (a year ago)
But, again... couldn't an advanced keyway deter the novice or moderate picker? I know that if I saw that, I'd just give up. FYI, I just picked my first lock last month! lol
LPL: "Hopefully I won't draw blood on myself (this time....)
What cylinder brand would you recommend using on a front home of a flat?
I wonder how many people are inspired to become criminals from watching your videos. Lol... but seriously, the value in these is really for the people who buy these products and value security.
If that lock uses .115 diameter pins, you should use some of my wafer driver pins I make. Let me know if you'd like to try some out and I'll send you enough to fill the pin stack.
Hi LPL, can you do the EVVA 4KS? This is a cylinder I want to use and I'm really interested what you think of it (and that type of lock in general). Thanks!
You have very good ability.
the master keying didnt even effect your picking... if it was easy because of the master keying the master pins would have been in the plug not in the bible...
Keyways are not effective pick resistance. They look bad, but 90% of the time you can work around the warding.
back looks owlish
Master keying, paying the bills for locksmiths since 1899.
very well explained. glad you took the time to spp'd. thanks for sharing. 😎😎😎😎🔏
Love the modesty...
What is it about master keyiinfg that makes it so easy to pick it set the pins almost level with the shear line
So in short ... if it want master keyed added a few spool and serrated pins it could be nearly impossible to open
So your usual trick is to learn the key bidding then lift the pins accordingly ?
Maybe watch a few hundred of his other videos before dismissing him so easily
@@dielaughing73 only a few hundred ?
What is loose, binding n cluck etc. You need to show the probe activity on a transparent lock.
Magnet Man loose meaning it is not the binding pin. Every lock has a binding order in the pins, just how it is. When you put tension on the lock one or two pins at a time will be harder to lift than the others, or binding. Those are the ones you want to lift up and set. That click is the sound of the pin setting or him dropping into a false set. A loose pin is not Binding, and you don’t need to worry ab then because they can’t be set until they bind, and pushing it up it’ll just fall back down.
for us laymen, what is masterkeying?
Nice
Are the keyways milled or how do they even cut that
@AR-Gaming they typically pull the uncut cores through a series of knives with teeth on them. each knife is higher than the next buillding the keyway to it's final shape. the knives are also shaped like the keyway depending on the hight of the cut it is responsible for
@@UnacceptableViews Those must be some seriously nasty knives if they can cut through solid steel like butter.
why is it called the bible?
LPL needs a pair of snap ring pliers
Brain: EVGA GPU
ME: Ummm
Could this have been set up aftermarket that way?
What's the point in master wafers? All they are doing is making this lock easy to pick, so why should you add them?
So that you can have a master key that can access numerous locks. Each will have an individual correct key but with the master wafers they can have more than one combination to open it.
Great explanation. Thanks a lot for showing the master-keying.
How do you know which way the locks turn pre pick?
Nice pick!
its crazy how much easier master wafers can allow a lock to open, with all those extra shear lines.Thats why I like Yales old school. Bicentric Mortice and padlocks. You can have a master core and a user core, that way you don't have to use master wafers. Like these www.simon-says.net/lds3/vt_build_me_one.htm