I enjoyed this video. Well done. It’s always struck me that, at the very high level of quality you’re talking about in this video (let’s swap out a Horween leather for, say, a Badalassi, D’Annonay, or J&FJ), there aren’t “good” or “bad” leathers so much as there are preferences. I like CXL for some footwear. I like calf / yearling’s tight grain for others. Depends on what I’m wearing.
hahahaha i loved the old video!!! it was so gangster! it was far from a hot take the points you made were legit. i think the difference between this video is and the other that is good is the fact you lead with the positives.
Agree with you about olive cxl. I have a pair of Nicks Americana in olive cxl that are gorgeous. Glad I picked them up since they no longer offer the color.
I love that. CXL stuff is waaaay too soft for me. Soft means you don't get sharp contrasting wear, which is what I love on good vintage pieces of leather.
Nice overview of CXL and maybe the most inclusive review I’ve heard. I have on brown CXL boots right now, and I agree completely. Very easy to maintain, comfortable, forgiving, slow patina, brush it every so often and occasional conditioning. The water resistance is my primary reason for using it. The black does teacore nicely eventually. It’s a great easy leather, but not as much character as veg tanned.
It's kind of like a Goodyear welt. You know what you're getting, it's very good and very common, super accessible, you can't really go wrong but you can certainly do better if you wish.
Nice video and conversation. I know you like to be thorough, so I wanted to share this: I reached out to Grant Stone’s support team before purchasing my Black CXL Brass boots to confirm that they were teacore (purchased Black Friday ‘23) and was told they are not technically teacore but rather aniline.
The problem is that I don't currently own anything from them. My wife does though so I suppose I could mention those. Their stuff seems really nice honestly
With you indirectly mentioning care depending on leather, would you consider making a video about that specifically? (i.e. how you care for Badalassi vs Maryam vs Shikki vs CXL, dress shoes vs casual boots, lighter coloured leathers vs darker coloured leathers, etc.) Always appreciate your content.
I like how others have put it for CXL- it is a good starting heritage leather. It's a good combo tanned leather with good temper for the thickness. The only downside is the CXL lottery that is hard for the cutters to tell if that particular area will get the large undesirable creases.
@@djhungzilla well there are European taneries that cut out the double shoulder and the double butt and tan those only. Just to avoid the areas that can give the questionable areas of leather. However, that creates a lot of waste.
I have a Pair of GS diesels in brown chrome Excel and I wear them very heavily and they patina quite nicely, and nice depth of color. A pig bristle brush will get rid of superficial scratches and bring it up to your nice luster. I hike in these all the time they’re extremely durable and comfortable, water resistant and brush up well with a stiff brush. It may take longer to patinate, but it will patinate nicely. I have #8, black, and natural CXL , but those pairs have nowhere near the miles so no comment on how those age. Thanks Jake, solid video.
I'm a bit baffled why I never hear people talking about my biggest CXL gripe: over time the gradual abrasion wear has them looking almost like nubuck - often to the point where no amount of polish or conditioning can get them to have a smooth finish anymore. I have about ten Horween CXL jackets and two of them are phenomenal, breaking-in in very attractive ways, about 6 of them are just entirely unremarkable - basically every old, used Aero jacket you see on ebay, where they look like someone took high-grit sandpaper to the whole thing. But then one CXL jacket that I bought for a good friend as a gift - even though it was the same leather as all my own Aero jackets, the leather looked absolutely atrocious. If you're familiar enough with Aero or Horween CXL jackets, you'll notice that they use visually-inferior pieces for the back/underside of the collar, armpits, insides of the cuffs and the bottom inside panel (the piece that protects the bottom of the liner from fraying). These pieces have ZERO character and they start looking like nubuck after a few weeks of wear, months before you see even a hint of patina or wear anywhere else. Well anyway, Areo made the ENTIRE JACKET out of this trash and I was absolutely livid, because I KNOW they knew what they were doing because, again, on all my other CXL Aero jackets, they only use that trash on the parts of the jacket you don't see much of. Anyway, my point is that even if you order two identical pieces in CXL, you can see two DRAMATICALLY different-looking pieces of leather - and it doesn't just look different, the garbage CXL wears out ten times faster and looks like nubuck as opposed to your rad, 40s horsehide jacket. The worst is with my Wolverine CXL boots. I own 5 pairs of Wolverine boots - 3 of which are 1000 miles; two are black cow CXL and one is their first 721 Cordovan 1000m's. My first black cow CXLs look almost entirely like a smoother sort of nubuck, and no amount of conditioning or polish cam get them looking anything like they did for the first 4 years of their lives. My second identical pair ended up doing the exact same thing but with only ONE shoe 😒 again, looking like a worn out eraser, which could only be mildly and temporarily mitigated by condition or any sort of treatment. And I haven't really worn my cordovan 1000m's other than for special occasions but I (rather surprisingly) found an identical pair of cordovan 721s at a thrift store and i was absolutely floored at how the color had gone from most of them. Normally they're a rich No. 8 burgundy, but these were a pale, washed out light, pinkish-brown and felt like someone had taken some 600 grit sandpaper to them lightly over the course of a week - they were just insanely soft (which was kind of neat, because when I tried them on, swear to god, they felt like an old pair of slippers) but they looked like hell - NOTHING like a vintage pair of boots but rather like someone experimenting with trying to artificially age their shoes. But in all these cases, Horween was the link, and I'm at the point where I just wont buy anything from Horween anymore - especially after purchasing a bunch of Japanese jackets and boots made from Shinki (though some Shinki jackets I've owned have looked like greasy-shiny black trash bags) the good stuff looks not only incredible new, but also ages like the good vintage leather does (Particularly Fine Creek stuff, for whatever reason). Anyway, apologies for the novel, ive just never heard anyone voicing the same complaints I have about Horween/CXL so I figured I'd speak up, after hearing you talk about it. Also I appreciate the video, as I think I learned a couple things 👍
Id like to see a video on different types/brands of outsoles and heels. Rubber and leather soles. Textures. Different types of finishing and stitching, like closed and open channel. Also things like sole savers, toe taps, hobnails and such. Also: do you only wear boots or also regular low-top shoes? What type of shoes do you typically wear? And if you only wear boots, why? Especially considering the warmer climate you live in.
Great idea. I do want to cover that subject. The only leather shoes I have right now is a pair of loafers. Unless it's extremely hot, I still wear boots in the summer
There are many different cxl variants It can be struck trough with colour and it can be tea core/surface dyed They are not limited to specific aspects You can see that for example on the maverick website where they sell different cxl hides
Yup ,my question too, primarily because it's both a veg tanned leather and it's stuffed with waxes and that alters the " aging " process quite dramatically. Atleast that's what I presume.
I'm still kind of new to this thing. I have 2 pair of Cromexel boots. Both Thursdays one natural & one color 8. (Cordovan was the name I always knew for the color) I heard somewhere that it's called #8 because Horween needs to dye shell cordovan 8 times to get it that shade.
And natty cxl also starts of darker because of the oils and waxes, chrome tanned leather in general can have the same light tan colour like veg tan, e.g. aniline tan calf
Yes thats very true. I was just referring to the blue/grey tone due to the chrome tanning and the fact that it's natural in color, not dyed. But yes you definitely can get bright colors with other chrome tanned leathers
Do you think CXL is a good leather for a sneaker? I think a minimal patina and reasonable water performance would add up to a reasonable leather for sneakers.
I would say probably a smidge, but some colors look better than others? BUT they still seem to mostly want only that reddish brown that is not the true dark brown I usually seeking, etc.
Actually, the Jack o' Trades IS a negative phrase that most people leave off the second half or don't understand that "master of NONE" typically means doing subpar work over a broad spectrum and never doing any excellent work in any specificity or discipline. I had this long argument w' a gal years ago and she still insisted that she liked the other definition better. Um, sure. Now let's define "irony" for everyone on TV who doesn't know they are using THAT wrong, too.
BUT, in this case, it's not that the leather is so much a jack of ALL trades, anyway, because it's mostly being used for mid-quality boots? So that's more like it's still not the master of all leathers that can be used for mid-quality boots, but it is a common choice for the reasons you laid out, blah, blah..................
@@almostvintagestyle Fair to disagree, I just feel like John Lofgren is a steep price to pay for what is essentially "base model" CXL.... not to mention the clicking has a reputation of being pretty poor. Seen it myself firsthand. The price range makes them hard to justify as well, in my opinion with options like Attraction's and Wesco's building a boot on the same (or arguably better) level. I was pretty disappointed with Wesco's QC as of late, however.
This wouldn’t have anything to do with Nick Horween calling you out for hating CXL on the full grain podcast would it. 😂
Which episode was this mentioned in?
Haha I had no idea! I listen to the podcast, but haven't fully caught up yet. I feel honored that he mentioned me.
Haha I was thinking the same thing too!
Thanks a lot, very helpful. Would love another video like this about shell cordovan
I do plan on covering that subject in the future. Thanks!
I enjoyed this video. Well done. It’s always struck me that, at the very high level of quality you’re talking about in this video (let’s swap out a Horween leather for, say, a Badalassi, D’Annonay, or J&FJ), there aren’t “good” or “bad” leathers so much as there are preferences. I like CXL for some footwear. I like calf / yearling’s tight grain for others. Depends on what I’m wearing.
Completely agree! At this level, it really is about what you need and what you like.
Thank you. Great overview of CXL. I would love to see one on CF Stead's roughout and suede...
Thanks! I need more experience with Stead first!
hahahaha i loved the old video!!! it was so gangster! it was far from a hot take the points you made were legit. i think the difference between this video is and the other that is good is the fact you lead with the positives.
Thanks I'm glad someone at least liked the old one haha
Agree with you about olive cxl. I have a pair of Nicks Americana in olive cxl that are gorgeous. Glad I picked them up since they no longer offer the color.
I got the JL Dark Olive cxl combat boots and it is very nice
Yeah especially if they don't offer it anymore, that's an excellent pick up!
You forgot to mention that chromexcel becomes stiffer when it's even mildly cold - which is a curse with jackets made of it.
You are right! I was wearing a jacket and boots with chromexcel leather in Hokkaido, Japan. I had to break in the leather all over again every day...
Yeah thats a good point!
I love that. CXL stuff is waaaay too soft for me. Soft means you don't get sharp contrasting wear, which is what I love on good vintage pieces of leather.
Great video!
Thanks!
Nice overview of CXL and maybe the most inclusive review I’ve heard. I have on brown CXL boots right now, and I agree completely. Very easy to maintain, comfortable, forgiving, slow patina, brush it every so often and occasional conditioning. The water resistance is my primary reason for using it. The black does teacore nicely eventually. It’s a great easy leather, but not as much character as veg tanned.
Thanks! And yeah its so easy going that you just have to appreciate it for that. That's one reason my opinion on it has changed a bit
It's kind of like a Goodyear welt. You know what you're getting, it's very good and very common, super accessible, you can't really go wrong but you can certainly do better if you wish.
That is a fantastic way to put it. I agree!
Great video ! thanks!
Thank you very much!
Good review. Interesting to hear your educated point of view. Love all your engineer boots. Do you have a favorite maker?
For engineers? My favorite are Clinch and Role Club. Thank you!
Nice video and conversation. I know you like to be thorough, so I wanted to share this: I reached out to Grant Stone’s support team before purchasing my Black CXL Brass boots to confirm that they were teacore (purchased Black Friday ‘23) and was told they are not technically teacore but rather aniline.
Thanks for that info! Much appreciated
would love to hear your views on the CF Stead leathers they have some pretty interesting stuff and would be a great topic!
The problem is that I don't currently own anything from them. My wife does though so I suppose I could mention those. Their stuff seems really nice honestly
With you indirectly mentioning care depending on leather, would you consider making a video about that specifically? (i.e. how you care for Badalassi vs Maryam vs Shikki vs CXL, dress shoes vs casual boots, lighter coloured leathers vs darker coloured leathers, etc.) Always appreciate your content.
Yes I do need to make more videos on leather care
I like how others have put it for CXL- it is a good starting heritage leather. It's a good combo tanned leather with good temper for the thickness. The only downside is the CXL lottery that is hard for the cutters to tell if that particular area will get the large undesirable creases.
I wonder if the clicking issue is a design not a feature. Horween can sell more CXL that way without dealing with QC claims on the front end.
@@djhungzilla well there are European taneries that cut out the double shoulder and the double butt and tan those only. Just to avoid the areas that can give the questionable areas of leather. However, that creates a lot of waste.
Yeah its a fantastic reference point in a way.
I have a Pair of GS diesels in brown chrome Excel and I wear them very heavily and they patina quite nicely, and nice depth of color. A pig bristle brush will get rid of superficial scratches and bring it up to your nice luster. I hike in these all the time they’re extremely durable and comfortable, water resistant and brush up well with a stiff brush. It may take longer to patinate, but it will patinate nicely. I have #8, black, and natural CXL , but those pairs have nowhere near the miles so no comment on how those age. Thanks Jake, solid video.
Yeah there's definitely a lot of positives. It will age nicely while also being easy to care for which is a nice balance.
I'm a bit baffled why I never hear people talking about my biggest CXL gripe: over time the gradual abrasion wear has them looking almost like nubuck - often to the point where no amount of polish or conditioning can get them to have a smooth finish anymore.
I have about ten Horween CXL jackets and two of them are phenomenal, breaking-in in very attractive ways, about 6 of them are just entirely unremarkable - basically every old, used Aero jacket you see on ebay, where they look like someone took high-grit sandpaper to the whole thing.
But then one CXL jacket that I bought for a good friend as a gift - even though it was the same leather as all my own Aero jackets, the leather looked absolutely atrocious.
If you're familiar enough with Aero or Horween CXL jackets, you'll notice that they use visually-inferior pieces for the back/underside of the collar, armpits, insides of the cuffs and the bottom inside panel (the piece that protects the bottom of the liner from fraying). These pieces have ZERO character and they start looking like nubuck after a few weeks of wear, months before you see even a hint of patina or wear anywhere else. Well anyway, Areo made the ENTIRE JACKET out of this trash and I was absolutely livid, because I KNOW they knew what they were doing because, again, on all my other CXL Aero jackets, they only use that trash on the parts of the jacket you don't see much of.
Anyway, my point is that even if you order two identical pieces in CXL, you can see two DRAMATICALLY different-looking pieces of leather - and it doesn't just look different, the garbage CXL wears out ten times faster and looks like nubuck as opposed to your rad, 40s horsehide jacket.
The worst is with my Wolverine CXL boots. I own 5 pairs of Wolverine boots - 3 of which are 1000 miles; two are black cow CXL and one is their first 721 Cordovan 1000m's. My first black cow CXLs look almost entirely like a smoother sort of nubuck, and no amount of conditioning or polish cam get them looking anything like they did for the first 4 years of their lives. My second identical pair ended up doing the exact same thing but with only ONE shoe 😒 again, looking like a worn out eraser, which could only be mildly and temporarily mitigated by condition or any sort of treatment.
And I haven't really worn my cordovan 1000m's other than for special occasions but I (rather surprisingly) found an identical pair of cordovan 721s at a thrift store and i was absolutely floored at how the color had gone from most of them. Normally they're a rich No. 8 burgundy, but these were a pale, washed out light, pinkish-brown and felt like someone had taken some 600 grit sandpaper to them lightly over the course of a week - they were just insanely soft (which was kind of neat, because when I tried them on, swear to god, they felt like an old pair of slippers) but they looked like hell - NOTHING like a vintage pair of boots but rather like someone experimenting with trying to artificially age their shoes.
But in all these cases, Horween was the link, and I'm at the point where I just wont buy anything from Horween anymore - especially after purchasing a bunch of Japanese jackets and boots made from Shinki (though some Shinki jackets I've owned have looked like greasy-shiny black trash bags) the good stuff looks not only incredible new, but also ages like the good vintage leather does (Particularly Fine Creek stuff, for whatever reason).
Anyway, apologies for the novel, ive just never heard anyone voicing the same complaints I have about Horween/CXL so I figured I'd speak up, after hearing you talk about it. Also I appreciate the video, as I think I learned a couple things 👍
Yeah thats true that I have seen that happen with Chromexcel. It's not the most heavy duty leather and not the best for work applications
Id like to see a video on different types/brands of outsoles and heels. Rubber and leather soles. Textures. Different types of finishing and stitching, like closed and open channel. Also things like sole savers, toe taps, hobnails and such.
Also: do you only wear boots or also regular low-top shoes? What type of shoes do you typically wear? And if you only wear boots, why? Especially considering the warmer climate you live in.
Great idea. I do want to cover that subject. The only leather shoes I have right now is a pair of loafers. Unless it's extremely hot, I still wear boots in the summer
I have a nuclear take on CXL and it's this: it makes a great roughout
It does actually. I agree with that
There are many different cxl variants
It can be struck trough with colour and it can be tea core/surface dyed
They are not limited to specific aspects
You can see that for example on the maverick website where they sell different cxl hides
Thanks for pointing that out because I have noticed that inconsistency
Thanks for the video my guy, what do you think of Wickett and Craig's double stuffed leather?
I haven't experienced that leather yet sadly.
Yup ,my question too, primarily because it's both a veg tanned leather and it's stuffed with waxes and that alters the " aging " process quite dramatically. Atleast that's what I presume.
I'm still kind of new to this thing. I have 2 pair of Cromexel boots. Both Thursdays one natural & one color 8. (Cordovan was the name I always knew for the color) I heard somewhere that it's called #8 because Horween needs to dye shell cordovan 8 times to get it that shade.
I do know that the # colors are all the same color just with more dye, but I don't know about that specific thing
Hey bud, great vid. But here’s the question I’ve been dying to ask. What’s the secrete to your hair, or is it just naturally awesome?
Styling it this way for many years has helped, but also using the right matter paste products and using a blow dryer helps
And natty cxl also starts of darker because of the oils and waxes, chrome tanned leather in general can have the same light tan colour like veg tan, e.g. aniline tan calf
Yes thats very true. I was just referring to the blue/grey tone due to the chrome tanning and the fact that it's natural in color, not dyed. But yes you definitely can get bright colors with other chrome tanned leathers
To my mind you‘re the very best when you’re talking boots! Other topics also of course. But your opinions about boots I like most. 😄👍🏻
Thanks so much! That means a lot to me and I greatly appreciate it
Hi may I know do you have any suggestion if I want to have as little as possible grain / crease on the boots? Except Shell Cordovan?
I would say calfskin is probably the best option for that
@@almostvintagestyle thank you so much for the advise!
Do you think CXL is a good leather for a sneaker? I think a minimal patina and reasonable water performance would add up to a reasonable leather for sneakers.
I think it might work well for that, but I'm not sure if the stretch would be good or not
where do i get that belt?
It's from Duke Mantee. Message him on instagram!
I would say probably a smidge, but some colors look better than others? BUT they still seem to mostly want only that reddish brown that is not the true dark brown I usually seeking, etc.
the Grant Stone looked exactly like the Thursday, so I don't know if the US tanning was any better than the Mex, ect.
I own neither RW nor Viberg. They have both positioned themselves out of convenient market or something.
auto focus hit-miss, but overall can see some the detail enough?
Actually, the Jack o' Trades IS a negative phrase that most people leave off the second half or don't understand that "master of NONE" typically means doing subpar work over a broad spectrum and never doing any excellent work in any specificity or discipline. I had this long argument w' a gal years ago and she still insisted that she liked the other definition better. Um, sure. Now let's define "irony" for everyone on TV who doesn't know they are using THAT wrong, too.
BUT, in this case, it's not that the leather is so much a jack of ALL trades, anyway, because it's mostly being used for mid-quality boots? So that's more like it's still not the master of all leathers that can be used for mid-quality boots, but it is a common choice for the reasons you laid out, blah, blah..................
Yes it is overrated but it's not as overrated as John Lofgren
I disagree, but fair to have that opinion
@@almostvintagestyle Fair to disagree, I just feel like John Lofgren is a steep price to pay for what is essentially "base model" CXL.... not to mention the clicking has a reputation of being pretty poor. Seen it myself firsthand.
The price range makes them hard to justify as well, in my opinion with options like Attraction's and Wesco's building a boot on the same (or arguably better) level.
I was pretty disappointed with Wesco's QC as of late, however.
worse leather bro
Chromexcel?
@@almostvintagestyle yeah cxl footwear just collapses and looks all over the place