Thank you to everyone that has added a comment here, if there is something I missed in the video please comment to help others watching this and diagnosing their balers. All these comments are greatly appreciated!
Hi to all small farmers, thanks ollie that you made such a great video. It helps enormous to repair this tricky old knotters. f****** good job! Greets from Austria, Dominik
Thank you. I have an International 425 and this helped more than just looking at the operator manual. I'm still searching for a video of how to thread the needle since one pulled out due to being stuck in the twine chamber. Best to you.
Great and informative video. I watched a slow motion of my knotter in operation before watching this video. Now, what I saw makes sense. Still trying to figure out why one knotter is not cutting and not removing the knot from the bill hook. This video gives me some ideas on where to look in the morning. Thanks for the video
The wiper arm is not close enough to the knotter bottom edge, and the knife on it may be dull. Gently bend the wiper closer to the bottom of the knotter so it wipes the knot off properly, and sharpen the blade on the upper part of the wiper arm so it cuts the twine cleanly. A file works well to do this.
One more thing to add to this great video is never leave the baler outside in the weather. If you have to leave it out cover it up with a tarp. I always spray my knotters with WD40 when I put it back in the shed to prevent any chance of rusting. Thank you Ollie.
For the average viewer it would help for you to describe at what angle the illustration photos are at. Like at 11:32, that view is looking from the right side of the knotter, not just this is a bottom view. When the needle is in it's upward most position, the tucker finger only holds the twine against the duck bill. The increased tension in the twine between the tip of the needle and the duck bill pulls it into the twine disks. The tucker finger is below the duck bill and knotter assembly. The whole process is actually genius. Hats off to the inventor who started with a blank piece of paper...
Fantastic video! At the 3:47 mark on the video (the knotter), there is a lock nut on the lower left portion of the screen. Is this to be tightened all the way down or just enough to allow the entire knotter to move up and down a bit while running? We have a New Holland 270….working on a few problems and didn’t see anything in the manual about this. Thanks again….best video explanation on CZcams!
Banana bale can also be caused by to much or little tension on the stuffer drive belt. It;s supposed to slip when the box is over stuffed... Rust on pulleys, worn belt, or over tension-ed spring will cause the banana bale.
Great job. Will comment on banana bale's. Often it is underfeeding. Feed baler faster until it sheers the sheer bolt, then back off just a little and banana bale problems likey will go away.
Hello , right , something didn,t feel right this afternoon about my reply 5 hours ago , now I know what , I made a human error mistake in my text below , so I apologise to anyone who sees it , & picks it up from experience , as follows ; I should have said this ; The safety dog that pops up into the ram chamber when the string needles are starting their tying cycle is usually spring loaded to do so , it is held out of the bale chamber by a steel arm making contact with the top of the swinging tube arm that the twine needles are carried on & clamped to , being connected to the safety dog by a strong simple adjustable steel rod . Whilst the needles are in the "parked " position , as the needles start their tying cycle this arm is pulled round & up by a linkage driven by a mechanical dog clutch , this allows the safety dog engagement lever to drop down due to being relieved of all pressure , as a result , the safety dog then pops up into the bale chamber , the ram should be travelling away from it at this time , the knotters complete their cycle & the swinging arm returns to rest just as the ram approaches the safety dog,s area in the ram chamber again .This pulls the safety dog back out again ,away from the ram . It is provided to stop the ram smashing into the needles in the event of catastrophic mis - timing , it just snaps the shear bolt & stops the baler ram dead . Usually chain driven , the mechanical dog clutch is tripped into engagement by the metering wheel,s friction roller arm , & disengaged by it,s return to rest position also , as the needles complete their tying cycle the swinging arm returns to it,s parked position , which presses on the safety dog engagement lever , & results in the safety dog being retracted back down or out of the way ,as above . All this is adjustable , the parked position of the safety dog , parked position of the twine needles , etc , & where these operating linkages have aged , & acquired rattle , or an incorrect sized pivot pin has been put in as an in - field repair , all this alters the parked position , & peak cycle position of things , check it all out.If the knotters work fine & tie o.k. , leave the adjustments on the needle clamp ends completely alone , these can be very difficult to get back right . ( the big bolts holding the needles to the swinging arm ) The mechanical dog clutch driving the knotters can get problems , such as being packed full of chaff & no - one knows how to remove or strip it down & clean it out , the chaff then preventing the correct operation of the clutch , weak , broken or just plain missing springs inside the clutch , same for the engagement arm & roller within it . the brake on the knotter shaft needing servicing , so either too stiff , or barely working at all , treat this with clinical care , it,s all that safeguards your needles , other than that safety dog ! When this mechanical dog clutch gets problems it can simply stop part way round it,s cycle , this leaves the needles still up in the bale chamber , with the ram coming straight back at them , this is where the safety dog, still up in the chamber , smashes your shearbolt , stopping the ram dead , & saving your needles & knotters ( but one hell of a bang ! ). RIGHT , I,ve spent enough time on this subject , hope this helps , I,m off , Bye .
Very good comment, thank you for adding this to the conversation. I don't think I mentioned the safety dogs in the video so thanks for bringing it up here.
Banana bales on a New Holland 276 is caused by too little material, too thin windrows and too slow speed. It is said that the banana shape can be adjusted by shifting the fingers on the feeder arm, but it is much better to make evenly shaped and thick windrows.
Thick windrows and pickup speed, the correct twine and some oil on the knotters from time to time (and greasing all fittings) is 90% of it unless it's a rebuild.
At 11:03, you say bill hook is on bottom of this shaft (while you are marking the twine disc shaft). Small correction, but important for people working on these knotters.
Good catch, the bill hook is actually on top of the end of the knotter. The shaft with the gear has the actual knotter, twine disc, and bill hook opened via the roller that acts against the wiper arm.
Great detail, we are new to baling and just got a used NH 315, out of 100 bales I got about 30 good ones otherwise seems like Bill Hook not getting wiped clean, do you have any videos solving that type of issue? Thank you for the great content! I read one other comment on this and your reply to check wiper finger, should the bill hook also be filed and emery cloth in case not perfectly smooth? I have a great photo showing about 4-5 twines all stuck on right bill hook only, left side ties fine but right has this issue, I noticed from rear of baler it is right side with issue and it appears to be the only side with black spring attached, took spring off right knoter to test and then left side stopped tying so I put spring back on right side and left side tied again oddly but still issue with right side knots stuck on bill hook then loose twine on that side with no ties on bales due to such. I hope this makes sense. Wish I could attach photo.
I have a question, having an issue I think with the tucker finger hitting/ getting stuck on the wipper/knife arm and breaking woodruff key on the tucker finger cam. I just replaced the block and tucker finger with brand new ones and broke the woodruff key a second time after about 30 bales. Thoughts as to what is causing this to catch and break that key on the cam?
Is the tucker finger adjusted to have excessive travel? I suspect this may be the issue, it needs to move far enough to hold your needle twine (#2 twine) against the twine disc, but if it's over adjusted it may bind.
It has to touch the bottom of the knotter with a little drag, use a hammer and tap on yours till it touches. It's malleable iron, but be sure to take it easy as you bend it back to where it needs to be.
Needle brake/Knotter brake is too loose or a timing issue. Most likely the needle brake is too loose and the needles bounce up into the bale chamber on bumpy fields causing the plunger to strike the needles.
May I add just a few points gleaned from experience ; banana shaped bales , it,s possible the baler was previously used in a light crop , & a different operator didn,t tell you they,d moved the "packer fork top pivot pin" to accentuate the distance the hay was pushed into the ram or stuffer chamber , try moving the position of the lower tips ends of the packer fork a little by shifting the adjustable pivot pin around a little , trial & error , but 2-3 bales will show up the result , ....unusual amount of shaft power needed to drive baler ; is the crop actually fit ( dry ! ) to bale , if not , there is a heavy risk of the baled crop catching fire in store , avoid this scenario at all costs , turn the hay again for a day , row some up & try again , the baler will tell you when it,s fit ! ( crops baled damp like this are also extremely heavy to move around . like bales of lead , no good . )...crop quite fit , but baler still taking an unusual amount of power to drive ? , listen to the background noises it makes , can you hear dry , & before very long dangerously hot , bearings squealing ? find them , quickly , & rectify at once before your baler , & your crop field , are all on fire . Bearings are not usually so expensive , shop around , German , Scandinavian , Japanese , or good old Timkens if you can find them , will stop a potential disaster for both you & your neighbours . Final point ...visibly fix a good powder or foam fire extinguisher on your baler , inside it,s external profile , not obscuring any road lights etc , but be able to grab it quick & douse that fire , & then hightail it flat out for the road so the fire crew can get to you , by the time you can smell something it,s almost too late . My mates have accidentally burnt out combines , balers etc , usually due to jammed bearings & no piggin' fire extinguisher for miles , carry at least one with you , to hold onto the fight while the fire crew get to you . ( & a mobile phone ).O.K. guys , I,ve been baling hay & straw since I was 14 , now early 60,s , & have a lifetime,s headfull of , sometimes painfully earnt experience . Best Regards from central england , & happy spanners .
@@madmedic13 Right , a few possible causes , firstly , check the static position of the "safety dog" right in the bottom of the bale chamber , just behind the head ( working , hay contact end ) of the ram , is absolutely perfect according to the book , with the ram manually screwed round by the flywheel to it,s appropriate timing point , & that NONE of the pins in the simple linkage that control it in unison with the ram,s movement , has ended up bent , cranked in one spot , got a worn inwards area on them etc , as all these little faults add up over time until they suddenly hit crisis point , & smash the shearbolt ! ( check the rod working the safety dog , from the ram , is not bent or become loose on it,s fastenings also ) in addition , have you recently repaired a broken drive chain , with a link you had got with you in field , as 2 things here , the timing , which is crucial on this type of any maker,s balers , is very easily slightly lost during chain repairs , ...... &, if you fitted a repair link that went in , but was not all that right , but it went , in other words , someone used a link which was not of the specified exact pitch , this also contributes greatly towards out of kilter timing , replace it with a proper one , then re-time your baler , once you have got all the rattles out of it,s control system linkages ; get it right , & you,ll wonder why the hell you had put up with it being wrong for so long ! it will work so much better , really get everything right on the "B" of the Bang. Also check the distance relationship between the head of the ram , the ram chamber at the specified point , & the twine needles during a manually screwed round tying cycle , so it moves so slowly you can see everything , this is a classic for smashing shearbolts , & it,s simple wear , which just needs adjustment , or mis - timing . Happy Spanners , & best regs , let us all know how you get on , on here . I talk from a lifetime,s experience on Massey - Fergusons , New Holland components may be in different locations , check first !
@@madmedic13 I kept shearing bolts in the flywheel and after about 2 or 3 bolts, noticed that the replaceable bushing in the flywheel had an egg-shaped hole where the shear bolt went into. The baler was an IH #46 that my dad bought new in 1966. So the baler is 56 yrs old. I found a new bushing and turned out the old and threaded in a new one. Thank you for such a great video! Can't imagine trying to invent a tying mechanism like this! Scott from Iowa
Thank you to everyone that has added a comment here, if there is something I missed in the video please comment to help others watching this and diagnosing their balers. All these comments are greatly appreciated!
Great video. Knotters can be so frustrating, especially when you have short weather window.
Most informative knotter video I have watched yet!
Hi to all small farmers,
thanks ollie that you made such a great video. It helps enormous to repair this tricky old knotters.
f****** good job!
Greets from Austria, Dominik
That certainly is an excellent step by step description of the knotter, plunger and needle stroke cycle.
Thank you for that tremendous effort.
Great detail in explaining the square Baler. Best that I have found on u-tube. Bobby in McCrory Arkansas. God bless you for your effort.
Thank you Ollie. This is the best expanation of knotters I've seen.
Thanks for taking the time to make this. I know absolutely nothing about the magical knot tying mechanism and this helped a lot!
I agree, best information on knotters and troubleshooting. Makes understanding it so much easier. Thank you
Best video on youtube in years. Thank you so much for sharing this information
Thanks for the info about how the knotter work. I now understand my service manual.
I compliment you on your video, I have here in Australia a New Holland 317, very helpful information.
Thank you. I have an International 425 and this helped more than just looking at the operator manual. I'm still searching for a video of how to thread the needle since one pulled out due to being stuck in the twine chamber. Best to you.
Very good description this is the same way my old 14T john Deere knotters work. Thank you Ed
Great and informative video. I watched a slow motion of my knotter in operation before watching this video. Now, what I saw makes sense.
Still trying to figure out why one knotter is not cutting and not removing the knot from the bill hook. This video gives me some ideas on where to look in the morning. Thanks for the video
The wiper arm is not close enough to the knotter bottom edge, and the knife on it may be dull. Gently bend the wiper closer to the bottom of the knotter so it wipes the knot off properly, and sharpen the blade on the upper part of the wiper arm so it cuts the twine cleanly. A file works well to do this.
@@ollieolson you may be able to get at it with a dremel too if your careful and it's small
Thank you! This video should be the top one on the subject.
Super great Ollie!
Great video! Thank you for putting this together!
Awesome explanation. Thank you!
One more thing to add to this great video is never leave the baler outside in the weather. If you have to leave it out cover it up with a tarp. I always spray my knotters with WD40 when I put it back in the shed to prevent any chance of rusting. Thank you Ollie.
We pour used motor oil on the knotters before each use (and of course, grease all fittings routinely).
Very well done... Thanks Maybe sometime do a video on adjusting timing etc on the knotter ??
Yes!
extremely helpful video
For the average viewer it would help for you to describe at what angle the illustration photos are at. Like at 11:32, that view is looking from the right side of the knotter, not just this is a bottom view. When the needle is in it's upward most position, the tucker finger only holds the twine against the duck bill. The increased tension in the twine between the tip of the needle and the duck bill pulls it into the twine disks. The tucker finger is below the duck bill and knotter assembly. The whole process is actually genius. Hats off to the inventor who started with a blank piece of paper...
Fantastic video! At the 3:47 mark on the video (the knotter), there is a lock nut on the lower left portion of the screen. Is this to be tightened all the way down or just enough to allow the entire knotter to move up and down a bit while running? We have a New Holland 270….working on a few problems and didn’t see anything in the manual about this. Thanks again….best video explanation on CZcams!
Great video. Appreciate it.
Banana bale can also be caused by to much or little tension on the stuffer drive belt. It;s supposed to slip when the box is over stuffed... Rust on pulleys, worn belt, or over tension-ed spring will cause the banana bale.
Excellent!!!
Gracias!
Thanks
Very good information
Great explanation.
Can the bolted twine knives be exchanged in place of the riveted knives on the 336 john deere baler?
Great job. Will comment on banana bale's. Often it is underfeeding. Feed baler faster until it sheers the sheer bolt, then back off just a little and banana bale problems likey will go away.
haha, sheered bolts are a good "that was too far" mechanism for sure, lol.
Hello , right , something didn,t feel right this afternoon about my reply 5 hours ago , now I know what , I made a human error mistake in my text below , so I apologise to anyone who sees it , & picks it up from experience , as follows ; I should have said this ;
The safety dog that pops up into the ram chamber when the string needles are starting their tying cycle is usually spring loaded to do so , it is held out of the bale chamber by a steel arm making contact with the top of the swinging tube arm that the twine needles are carried on & clamped to , being connected to the safety dog by a strong simple adjustable steel rod .
Whilst the needles are in the "parked " position , as the needles start their tying cycle this arm is pulled round & up by a linkage driven by a mechanical dog clutch , this allows the safety dog engagement lever to drop down due to being relieved of all pressure , as a result , the safety dog then pops up into the bale chamber , the ram should be travelling away from it at this time , the knotters complete their cycle & the swinging arm returns to rest just as the ram approaches the safety dog,s area in the ram chamber again .This pulls the safety dog back out again ,away from the ram . It is provided to stop the ram smashing into the needles in the event of catastrophic mis - timing , it just snaps the shear bolt & stops the baler ram dead .
Usually chain driven , the mechanical dog clutch is tripped into engagement by the metering wheel,s friction roller arm , & disengaged by it,s return to rest position also , as the needles complete their tying cycle the swinging arm returns to it,s parked position , which presses on the safety dog engagement lever , & results in the safety dog being retracted back down or out of the way ,as above .
All this is adjustable , the parked position of the safety dog , parked position of the twine needles , etc , & where these operating linkages have aged , & acquired rattle , or an incorrect sized pivot pin has been put in as an in - field repair , all this alters the parked position , & peak cycle position of things , check it all out.If the knotters work fine & tie o.k. , leave the adjustments on the needle clamp ends completely alone , these can be very difficult to get back right . ( the big bolts holding the needles to the swinging arm )
The mechanical dog clutch driving the knotters can get problems , such as being packed full of chaff & no - one knows how to remove or strip it down & clean it out , the chaff then preventing the correct operation of the clutch , weak , broken or just plain missing springs inside the clutch , same for the engagement arm & roller within it . the brake on the knotter shaft needing servicing , so either too stiff , or barely working at all , treat this with clinical care , it,s all that safeguards your needles , other than that safety dog !
When this mechanical dog clutch gets problems it can simply stop part way round it,s cycle , this leaves the needles still up in the bale chamber , with the ram coming straight back at them , this is where the safety dog, still up in the chamber , smashes your shearbolt , stopping the ram dead , & saving your needles & knotters ( but one hell of a bang ! ).
RIGHT , I,ve spent enough time on this subject , hope this helps , I,m off , Bye .
Very good comment, thank you for adding this to the conversation. I don't think I mentioned the safety dogs in the video so thanks for bringing it up here.
Banana bales on a New Holland 276 is caused by too little material, too thin windrows and too slow speed.
It is said that the banana shape can be adjusted by shifting the fingers on the feeder arm, but it is much better to make evenly shaped and thick windrows.
Thick windrows and pickup speed, the correct twine and some oil on the knotters from time to time (and greasing all fittings) is 90% of it unless it's a rebuild.
Tank you!
At 11:03, you say bill hook is on bottom of this shaft (while you are marking the twine disc shaft). Small correction, but important for people working on these knotters.
Good catch, the bill hook is actually on top of the end of the knotter. The shaft with the gear has the actual knotter, twine disc, and bill hook opened via the roller that acts against the wiper arm.
My 268 new holland hayliner keeps breaking the needles what causes that when its all in time??
What manual were you using in the video? Do you know where we can locate one? Thanks
Great detail, we are new to baling and just got a used NH 315, out of 100 bales I got about 30 good ones otherwise seems like Bill Hook not getting wiped clean, do you have any videos solving that type of issue? Thank you for the great content!
I read one other comment on this and your reply to check wiper finger, should the bill hook also be filed and emery cloth in case not perfectly smooth? I have a great photo showing about 4-5 twines all stuck on right bill hook only, left side ties fine but right has this issue, I noticed from rear of baler it is right side with issue and it appears to be the only side with black spring attached, took spring off right knoter to test and then left side stopped tying so I put spring back on right side and left side tied again oddly but still issue with right side knots stuck on bill hook then loose twine on that side with no ties on bales due to such. I hope this makes sense. Wish I could attach photo.
Epic
I have a question, having an issue I think with the tucker finger hitting/ getting stuck on the wipper/knife arm and breaking woodruff key on the tucker finger cam. I just replaced the block and tucker finger with brand new ones and broke the woodruff key a second time after about 30 bales. Thoughts as to what is causing this to catch and break that key on the cam?
Is the tucker finger adjusted to have excessive travel? I suspect this may be the issue, it needs to move far enough to hold your needle twine (#2 twine) against the twine disc, but if it's over adjusted it may bind.
How to synchronize it or put it on time friend?
My problem on a # 10 MF baler is the twine keeps wrapping around the bill hook. Y?
need to know wiper arm tension does it touch it or is there gap.. mine has a gap, jd guy saus should touch n have 5 lbs of drag to it
It has to touch the bottom of the knotter with a little drag, use a hammer and tap on yours till it touches. It's malleable iron, but be sure to take it easy as you bend it back to where it needs to be.
What could be the reason for breaking the needles?Does failure in knoting can cause misfuncrion of safety break? Thanks for video
Needle brake/Knotter brake is too loose or a timing issue. Most likely the needle brake is too loose and the needles bounce up into the bale chamber on bumpy fields causing the plunger to strike the needles.
@@ollieolson thanks.if you have some advices how to test and solve problem,welçomed!!!
How about twisters
Older balers used need adjustment for plastic string
I havea hesston 4690 and the twine keeps getting out ofthe needle...
Tighten up your twine disc. That may solve your issue.
Could you explain how to fix the number 2 problem on the last page that you were writing?
Can you give a timestamp to the problem you are referring to? Is it the #2 mistie issues?
May I add just a few points gleaned from experience ; banana shaped bales , it,s possible the baler was previously used in a light crop , & a different operator didn,t tell you they,d moved the "packer fork top pivot pin" to accentuate the distance the hay was pushed into the ram or stuffer chamber , try moving the position of the lower tips ends of the packer fork a little by shifting the adjustable pivot pin around a little , trial & error , but 2-3 bales will show up the result , ....unusual amount of shaft power needed to drive baler ; is the crop actually fit ( dry ! ) to bale , if not , there is a heavy risk of the baled crop catching fire in store , avoid this scenario at all costs , turn the hay again for a day , row some up & try again , the baler will tell you when it,s fit ! ( crops baled damp like this are also extremely heavy to move around . like bales of lead , no good . )...crop quite fit , but baler still taking an unusual amount of power to drive ? , listen to the background noises it makes , can you hear dry , & before very long dangerously hot , bearings squealing ? find them , quickly , & rectify at once before your baler , & your crop field , are all on fire . Bearings are not usually so expensive , shop around , German , Scandinavian , Japanese , or good old Timkens if you can find them , will stop a potential disaster for both you & your neighbours . Final point ...visibly fix a good powder or foam fire extinguisher on your baler , inside it,s external profile , not obscuring any road lights etc , but be able to grab it quick & douse that fire , & then hightail it flat out for the road so the fire crew can get to you , by the time you can smell something it,s almost too late . My mates have accidentally burnt out combines , balers etc , usually due to jammed bearings & no piggin' fire extinguisher for miles , carry at least one with you , to hold onto the fight while the fire crew get to you . ( & a mobile phone ).O.K. guys , I,ve been baling hay & straw since I was 14 , now early 60,s , & have a lifetime,s headfull of , sometimes painfully earnt experience . Best Regards from central england , & happy spanners .
I keep shearing the shearing bolt on the PTO drive. Where would you start looking to cause this. Sheared 3 in a row after baling over 400 bales.
@@madmedic13 Right , a few possible causes , firstly , check the static position of the "safety dog" right in the bottom of the bale chamber , just behind the head ( working , hay contact end ) of the ram , is absolutely perfect according to the book , with the ram manually screwed round by the flywheel to it,s appropriate timing point , & that NONE of the pins in the simple linkage that control it in unison with the ram,s movement , has ended up bent , cranked in one spot , got a worn inwards area on them etc , as all these little faults add up over time until they suddenly hit crisis point , & smash the shearbolt ! ( check the rod working the safety dog , from the ram , is not bent or become loose on it,s fastenings also )
in addition , have you recently repaired a broken drive chain , with a link you had got with you in field , as 2 things here , the timing , which is crucial on this type of any maker,s balers , is very easily slightly lost during chain repairs , ...... &, if you fitted a repair link that went in , but was not all that right , but it went , in other words , someone used a link which was not of the specified exact pitch , this also contributes greatly towards out of kilter timing , replace it with a proper one , then re-time your baler , once you have got all the rattles out of it,s control system linkages ; get it right , & you,ll wonder why the hell you had put up with it being wrong for so long ! it will work so much better , really get everything right on the "B" of the Bang. Also check the distance relationship between the head of the ram , the ram chamber at the specified point , & the twine needles during a manually screwed round tying cycle , so it moves so slowly you can see everything , this is a classic for smashing shearbolts , & it,s simple wear , which just needs adjustment , or mis - timing . Happy Spanners , & best regs , let us all know how you get on , on here . I talk from a lifetime,s experience on Massey - Fergusons , New Holland components may be in different locations , check first !
@@phillipcleaver7063 thanks. I’ll look at all you have suggested.
@@madmedic13 I kept shearing bolts in the flywheel and after about 2 or 3 bolts, noticed that the replaceable bushing in the flywheel had an egg-shaped hole where the shear bolt went into. The baler was an IH #46 that my dad bought new in 1966. So the baler is 56 yrs old. I found a new bushing and turned out the old and threaded in a new one. Thank you for such a great video! Can't imagine trying to invent a tying mechanism like this! Scott from Iowa
Now u need to do the same on twisters
Are you referring to wire balers?
How can I get it to zoom in great video thanks
Can you share your email. I have some serious questions about knot system please.