What No One Tells You About Archie Knuckles (ft. Ken Penders)
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Archie Sonic is over. Archie Knuckles has begun.
PREVIOUS PARTS
Link to part 1: • What No One Tells You ...
Link to part 2: • How Archie Sonic Lost ...
Link to Knuckles Lore Lecture: • Knuckles 101 - The Sto...
Support me on Patreon: / lowart
Watch livestreams on Twitch: / thelowart
Follow me on Twitter: / thelowestart
Contact me: lowart.contact@gmail.com
The Cowriter, IanWaffles: / kirbysonicteam
IanWaffles’ Reading Guide: docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
BACKGROUND MUSIC LIST
- link: docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
PENDERS INTERVIEW
- link: docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
TIME STAMPS
- 00:00:00 - Introduction
- 00:04:27 - Chapter 1: The Rest is History
- 00:25:58 - Chapter 2: Look! Sudden Delight!
- 00:32:06 - Chapter 3: Inside the Brotherhood
- 00:39:23 - Chapter 4: Zuerst kamen sie
- 00:49:40 - Chapter 5: She Loves You
- 00:53:08 - Chapter 6: Locke-On Technology
- 01:01:03 - Chapter 7: Green All the Way Down
- 01:20:46 - Chapter 8: 25 Years Later
Link to Sonic Retro for extra info on 25 Years Later production history: sonicretro.org/2012/12/22/mob...
Link to ThanksKenPenders for Goebbels connection: thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/p... - Zábava
I love how the title says 'ft. Ken Penders' like Lowart just dropped a new single and Ken has a verse, lol.
In a way, that's sort of what happened.
It’s Ken. Penders
Close enough!
He's in the video and explained his approach and struggles with the comic. All directly asked from the horse's mouth.
It's not in the title anymore. I guess it was changed to match the title in the previous video.
@@newguy371 RIP original title. We'll always remember ye. I now demand Lowart release a hit single for real in the name of equivalent exchange.
Casually mentioning "Knuckles' egg being laid" made me look back at my monitor like "wtf" before remembering these are supposed to be echidnas
Which are fictional beings created by Ken Penders, as we all know.
Echidnas are so biologically weird that if I didn't already know they were real, I might believe you.
Who ever made the sonic ova thought they were moles. Like they are way different from the real world versions
@@ashmander3465 I mean, it’s not like Knuckles was an accurate representation of echidnas from the get-go. I mean, dude‘s been gliding since day one. And he’s been digging since the Adventure days (though I don’t know if the OVA came before the Adventure games, but I digress)
@Kevin Delor technically, digging since day 1. He emerges from the ground on a couple occasions
"I'm sure if we give her enough rope, she's bound to hang herself" Iconic line by beloved sonic the hedgehog character, Knuckles the woman respecter
What's sexist about that line? They don't trust her for good reason at that point, so he's literally just saying that if she's not legit she might let her guard down and tip her hand if they pretend to trust her.
@@Troublethecat I think hes mostly just havin fun. Its just funny to take out of context when combined with Knuckles saying being so perplexed that Julie Su is a girl and calling her "FEMALE!" haha
I'm surprised, the way I'm surprised about the A-plot of issues 150 and 151 (since the backup story was much better), that it went by censors and comics codes.
"Just because I'm a meathead doesn't mean I'm not a feminist" -Knuckles
In order to defeat your enemies you must respect them
Learning more about Archie Sonic lore is like eating an apple of cursed knowledge and I am here for it.
Is this how it Adam and Eve felt?
@@Nzosaba_Matenge yeah but rather than kicking you from Eden god is just waiting to slam dunk you into purgatory.
Or a LSD laced chilli dog.
Not really, it’s just certain parts of it
Fr fr
These videos kinda put into perspective on why Penders is so passionate about ownership of some of these characters and their stories, especially with how this one ended. Not saying I agree with his actions, but it does explain a lot. At least that's what I figure.
In a way, he is much like Knuckles's father
Motivated by reasons that are personally-driven to do acts that the majority would disagree with.
Not one to agree with, but one that can be understood
@@RandomPerson-qg7yq an ironic take considering lock is suppose to mirror his dad.
@@fightingmedialounge519 like a greek tragedy
@@TindraSan partially.
Ken Penders is an asshole. He acts like he created Knuckles when he didn't.
It's definitely an interesting way to talk about Penders. Showing the more human side of him and how his work was made. While I personally don't enjoy his work I can at least understand what it must've been like for him.
But does this make me forgive his actual problematic stuff? Absolutely not, but this video at least grounds him more than other videos do.
I agree.
Part of the appeal of these Archie Sonic videos, is I have a genuinely hard time discerning when Lowart is giving a real critique and when he's losing his mind. And honestly, I'm here for it. Don't quite know where all that manic energy is gonna go when we get to the Ian Flynn era.
Love him or hate him, Ian really cleaned up archie sonic
Lowart lost his mind when he first dove into the 25 year story of the Archie sonic comics
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, this is what the Archie Sonic comics do to a person.
@@fiblin483 I am on the love side, especially before Worlds Collide.
@@saidi7975Archie sonic for the longest time was very varied in terms of quality, and often that resulted in a lot of bad or just forgettable stuff. Ian and by extension the current idw writers, at least make sure the book is consistent in terms of quality and art.
Lowart is in his Sonic Era and I'm loving it
Me too
i still remember watching his Made In Abyss video, dang did his channel take a wild turn! (in a good way of course)
is really cool
@Watching is that from sonic and the black knight and sonic 06
Told Ian this the other day, but I genuinely think this may be your best Archie Sonic video so far. It’s a very detailed exploration of the craziness of the Knuckles series that keeps things fun without simply doing the average “look at how crazy this was” while only presenting the same few things that everybody knows, like so many other videos on the subject do.
It offers a lot of willingness to engage with the material, but also isn’t afraid to thoroughly criticize its worst decisions, and in the end, it offers some genuine humanity in understanding its author even if it isn’t necessarily praising all of his creative decisions. Came away from the final bit strangely emotional, even though I’m not even _that_ big of a fan of anything from the future section.
This is also just very briskly paced despite its length, I think you hit the perfect balancing act here. Nothing felt as though it dragged, which is impressive considering the volume of material being covered.
Excellent job to both of you, looking forward to the next one!
Thanks so much!
OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD *OH* *MY* *GOD* ITS NEZUMI
Hello Nezumi! Just wanted to say hi and say how much I love your content. I went to your channel for Sonic content but stayed for everything else. Looking forward to your next video on Ace Attorney!
@@yaminogame Thanks! :)
Wait you talk to Ian Flynn??
"Suffering Builds Character" is Archie Knuckles in a nutshell. Man was suffering since day one.
True
This is probably the first time I've seen someone be positive about Ken's fanfic that is 25 Years Later. Ain't hating on ya bro, this was a good video. It's just so odd seeing positive talk about Penders knowing the damage he'd do in the years to come
i mean he is doing the right thing , i ( as a archie sonic fan ) am in fact sad about the reboot and lost of some lovable characters , but that doesnt mean we are justified to be mean to him because after all just like us he is a human with feelings , and we werent really there to see everything that happened , maybe Ken Penders is not the only "villain" of the hole "death of archie sonic" thing and his run on archie sonic/knuckles as we have seen in these videos are not just a bunch of weird and questionable stuff and actually there are things to appriciate and i am happy that finally someone came and actually did a fair critique on archie sonic instead of doing the hole "what the hell is this thing" that the mean people on internet that dont get it do
@@hoseinbmr3449 I understand that.
It's kind of hard when book actually manages to be aware of own pitfalls at that moment actual human moment with rich characterization.
@@hoseinbmr3449 I know little aboutt he drama but the idea Penders was the only villain is absurd. Sega is known for pulling so much stuff who knows how much infighting there probably was?
@@hoseinbmr3449 Archie and SEGA aren’t completely blameless for what happened, but that doesn’t change the fact that Penders was far and away the biggest catalyst for the cancellation and deserves all the hate he gets for trying to lay ownership to his Knuckles’ OCs. Yea that stuff about his father is sad and all, but that doesn’t mean he gets a free pass for lighting the nuke that destroyed a beloved comic that frankly only got much better quality wise after he hit the bricks.
This humanized Ken Penders in a way I haven't seen before and I'm sure there will be more of that in the interview. This whole series has been a humanizing experience for all the comic staff, actually. Im loving the pathos.
Yeah. Really goes to show that these people are, well, people. Some that have done shitty things obviously, but not some boogeymen.
It's interesting- and helps keep Archie from feeling like two or three ominous monoliths- the gag era, the Ken era, and the Flynn era/s. Because Archie is more than that. It's full of varried artists and directions, some even internally feuding among themselves.. Dynamic, for better or weird.
He still was a huge asshole and ruined the hard work of others with his dumbass pretentious self righteous lawsuit though, and then made the ugliest comics with the characters he wanted so badly.
Was the fanbase the obstruction all along? It feels like the residue of not complaining but sonic 4 episode 1 physics has taken another form...
@@HEMPHILL23 Yes. The same thing happened with people claiming that the Star Wars prequels were bad, that the Attack on Titan ending was good, that FMA 2003 was bad. For some reason, most people really 'tune in' to what the general public is thinking. No idea why, cause I find myself disagreeing with the general public opinion most of the time.
many parts of me hate Penders for all the selfish decisions he made with other writers and to other people, but his stories tell somethig of a man who put his heart in this comic and wanted to tell the story of his father and even his child.
and to that extend i can respect him.
thank you for this video, it was amazing
To me ken is like frank miller in so many ways started off good and then went off the deep end years later
It's pretty damn enlightening to see that even through all the stress him and other writers were put through at the time, all the wacky stuff the comic was, and the petty actions committed down the line, penders just wanted to put his heart in a comic at the end of the day.
I just think he's a dreadful writer. I struggle reading anything he's ever done. Don't care about him or anybody else as an individual. It doesn't matter. It's just a shame that the court battles he was part of resulted in the Archie Sonic story getting cancelled after it had become fantastic.
Yeah I mean you can't blame him for wanting to have some control over these stories and characters he wrote and created over so many years. But at the same time he has not and will never do anything interesting with them, and those fans who loved his work and became invested in that world were left out in the cold.
Yeah R.I.P. Ben Hurst
I think it's neat how Knuckles begins his story learning from Archimedes that it's more important to priortize your friends, and that your duties don't take precedent. Basically, don't let your job and its expectations get in the way of your loved ones. Locke only learned that lesson on his Deathbed. The very first lesson of this story, is also the last one.
That's a really good observation.
I agree.
@@bowserbreaker2515
I agree.
That's... an excellent point. Now I wonder if that was intentional or just really good coincidence
@@LupinticDream With Ken Penders, who knows?
I'm probably in the minority, but I always loved the way that Mammoth Mogul just swooped in out of nowhere and stole the limelight from Enerjak. When I look back on it, I'm pretty sure I know why I loved it too: the fact that Mogul has absolutely nothing to do with the arrogant Echidnas and all of the history we've been learning about them... but only because they chose to do nothing about him before now. After all, it's not like Mogul is a new threat. To the contrary, the Echidnas should be very aware of his existence. The height of Mogul's power down on the surface of Mobius overlaps with the thousands of years of Echidna history in the sky that the comic has been shoving down our throat for a good long while at this point. They absolutely must know about his immortality and that he's still alive out there but also a fraction of what he once was. Why then is he never mentioned in their histories? The same reason that they never really talk about the wars between Mobians and Overlanders or Robotnik and the Freedom Fighters. The same reason that the Dingoes only matter to the Echidnas when they pop up guns blazing and make themselves a nuisance to them. The same reason they didn't return Elias and his mother for so long. They didn't care. They didn't care about Mogul and the threat he posed so long as it was someplace else. So in their eyes, he's not even worthy of a footnote in history.
The Echidna societies, regardless of which one specifically we're talking about, have an arrogant view of themselves. Echidnas only care about Echidna problems, and anything that's not an Echidna problem (yet) is for somebody else to deal with, an issue of outsiders for outsiders. That arrogance makes it satisfying when Mogul shows up out of nowhere saying something like, "Maybe you don't remember me, but I remember you, and I've long waited for an opportunity like this." Because whether its Robotnik or Mogul or whoever, the world and its history outside of Echidna society is vast, and the Echidnas are not isolated from it nor above being drawn into it, no matter how much they delude themselves to the contrary. It's entirely fitting in my eyes that while the Echidnas are most focused on their problems, most distracted by what they percieve to be the biggest and truest threat to their existence, an outside force that exists today partly because of their own choice to neglect it would intervene and throw everything out of whack.
So good of a good point that I could agree
It would've been the easiest thing in the world to just dogpile Penders and condemn this entire era of the continuity. I really appreciate your even handed analysis on what made this comic good, bad, and insane.
Agreed
Honestly a way more charitable impression of the series than I think it deserves. I also love the wacky off the wall concepts this comic has had but the stuff in the Knuckles comic is more 'uncomfortable weird' rather than 'fun weird' and compounding that, slow and meandering given every arc is stretched over 3 issues. It's weird and awkward while also being slow and boring.
Also, low key the most brazen line in the whole video series is when you say the comic is ABOUT to lose its mind AFTER going over the overdose by drug laced chili dog and Nazi echidna political drama stories. Absolutely wild
On the point about when I said that it was about to lose its mind... uh, yeah, you're just correct hahaha It had definitely already gone well off the deep end, and I've just grown numb to it, I guess
@@Lowart I like the charitable impression, keep it please. Because that comparing to what it tries to be (and sometimes achieve like you rightfully point out with these touching or epic moments) compared to what it ends up doing on its own says so much about it, I love it, don't change.
Agreed 💯
@@Lowartgood point
@@Game_Heroagreed
I'm not a huge fan of Ken Penders considering all of the actions he's done in his career. But hearing the story about him and his father made me empathize with him.
Yeah well he through his dad under the bus a while ago
@@theshenparteiWait, really?!
@@theshenpartei Really?
@@mitchellhancock7920yes really
@theshenpartei How did that happen?
This video was such an emotional rollercoaster...
I can't tell if I want to cry at Knuckles being a good dad or bust out laughing at his weirdly human body during that dating arc.
I agree. ❤
I have never seen someone enjoy something both ironically AND unironically before.
You sir, are a first to me.
I agree.
So in short, even if it wasn’t all planned, Ken Penders ended up creating a hell of a meta textual story about a main character who never got to be the main character because everything around him was under the whim and will of other forces. Be it because of Locke’s control, or be it because of the Ancient Walkers; be it because of the roles of the guardians, or be it because of the sins of Echidna society past; Knuckles’ life is almost entirely defined by outer forces, and instead of acting as a keystone and engineering his present based on all of these shadows of the past, he was just a glorified cog. And in the end, seeing Locke able to at least somewhat apologize for being the arbiter of a lot of that cog-ness is very sombering.
Looking at Penders’ online behavior, his choice of revealing what information when, his bringing up of old grudges and his weird sense of entitlement in roping other people and things into his ambitions… it kind of makes sense how he got that way, thinking about it all. Though some of the stunts he’s pulled are still kind of infuriating to think about, it’s hard not to think about exactly what’s been driving him to pull them.
If he’s able to put aside setting up all of the extraneous side things for this Lara-Su project of his, if he’s able to get some help with a planner or manager of some kind who can help streamline his ambitions so he can build a proper foundation for his project first before moving on to all of the extra bits of flavor, I think despite everything he might genuinely make something cool. Or at least, I feel like it would only be fair to allow him, at least once, to put out this big brainchild of his so we can at least see what he’s trying to achieve beyond any petty motivations people have retroactively attached to him. I never thought I’d say this, but in a way… I’m kind of rooting for him?
Not exactly what the knuckles comics ended up being. More so a story about how no one, not even the powers, have complete control over what life has in store for them. If there's any parallel to the real world, it's towards the archie sonic comic books as a whole.
As much as this video tries to humanize him, I'm sorry, but I just can't feel the same way. He's still a bastard that has irreparably damaged an entire franchise. He screwed over countless people for his petty and selfish ambitions. And, worst of all for me personally, he had the GALL to shit talk people who passed away, people who can't defend themselves from the narratives he likes to build up.
At the end of the day, he's still a selfish shutbag of a human being. I understand him more now, but that doesn't equate to sympathy.
@@felixdaniels37 Thats totally fair. The point of the video isnt to excuse penders at all, but simply to dive into the behind the scenes and most interesting aspects of the creative process of this comic. Penders can all at once be a selfish and petty person, but also someone who left a piece of himself in his work that can resonate so strongly even if by complete accident. Its what makes art so fascinating.
@@felixdaniels37well I mean… that’s my point. “Selfish shitbag of a human being” is still… y’know. A human being. If I were defending him wholeheartedly, my little statement at the end there wouldn’t have ended with an uncertain question mark.
And tbh, if you ask me, it doesn’t seem like a lot of the things he’s infamous for really… irreparably harmed anyone. The situation around Chronicles’ development was messy enough, and while it very much sucks that his lawsuit was an unnecessary final nail in the coffin, it’s not like he single-handedly put an entire dev team out of house and home or anything. Really most of what he’s done caused more anger and frustration than much genuine hurt that extends beyond the realm of fictional works, people’s attachment to said works, and the creation of both… though I can def agree that going out of your way to speak ill of the dead just because you have an argument and they’re not around to argue back is just a low blow.
None of this changes that he’s… still a whole ass person with aspects to his being one can’t help but sympathize with, at least somewhat. He’s not… I dunno, Hitler or some shit.
@@Somerandomjingleberry
He did a lot more than just his lawsuits though. He's also the main reason why SatAM never got a season 3, he literally backstabbed the entire writing team of SatAM in order to pitch his awful show pilot that never got picked up. He contacted them and they told him what they were planning because they assumed he wanted to tie those into the comic. Instead he directly went to a Sega executive and intentionally misinformed her about what was going on, which led to the show's cancelation and most of the crew out a job, with the remainders stuck with working on Sonic Underground.
It's stuff like this that's why I can't get too invested in whatever narrative Penders builds for himself after the fact. He's a known liar that's more than willing to throw anyone and EVERYONE under the bus just to make himself look good.
I have a love-hate relationship with Penders. His work is just so bizarre I can’t help but be interested by it- I love watching videos on him and his creations. I made a 28 minute presentation on his interpretation of Knuckles for a college class a year ago and it didn’t even *scratch* the surface of the absolute insanity you delve into this video.
I agree.
How did it went? (The class), that souns hard to pull off. Props to u
@@lorenzo689 Class was phenomenal tbh! Was about hero tropes, and I got to compare Knuckles to Jesus which was pretty funny.
I (somehow) got 100% on my presentation! Professor started using me as an example of how you could really just go balls off the walls with the subject as long as it was on topic. Miss that man now that I’m in the process of transferring to uni :(
The hero returned to educate the masses
True ❤
This video gave me a look into the Knuckles series that I’ve never had before; I always wrote it off as the overly dramatic subplot with too many echidnas, written by a bizarre mind. But, the ending with Locke genuinely moved me: there was an actual satisfying resolution to a character arc that’s progressed through everything, inspired by Ken’s own life. That’s just… good writing! Thanks for the deep dive, beyond excited for the next one
I agree.
i gotta say these videos have given me more respect for Ken Penders. I may think a lot of the stuff he put in the comic was weird but hearing his side of the story and just how his life has went has given me a new view point on the man.
Thank you
I agree.
Hi - I'm Dawn Best and I loved each and every one of these videos. You said something in one of them about not being the target audience for the Sonic/Fantastic Four crossover and I wanted to say "same."
...and yes, I drew the main story of that issue. Hehe.
I’m honestly more hyped for the next sonic video than I am for any movie that’s coming out this year
I agree.
58:00 I just realized the entire backstory of Knuckles in the Archie comics is a mix of The Trueman Show and the plot of Sonic Underground.
Me too 58:00
Does anyone else like the idea of the Chaos Knuckles form? I mean sure it’s a recolor (then again you could say the same about Super Shadow). But still the idea of Knuckles getting his own unique Super form that’s basically a permanent super base form is freaking awesome
I like it, but that just me being bias because green is my favorite color :)
Same. I think it’s neat and I wouldn’t mind seeing it adapted in some way maybe a bit less convoluted in the future. Heck, the fact it keeps showing up in mods for Sonic games shows that there must be at least someone who thinks it’s cool enough
I think of it as his own hyper form. The thing that Knuckles bound his life to protect, is now the power he wields. Like how Hyper Sonic flashes the colors of the Emeralds.
Although it just makes him green lol, it thematically fits and not just being gold because Super Sonic is. Would love to see character unique Super Forms in mechanics and design.
I mean, Hyper Knuckles is a recolor too and people seem to like that form
Chaos Knuckles is more fitting as a form for him and since he is the master of a big green giant jewel this color seems to fit him alot more (also green being the color that represents radioactivity which this form kinda gave the vibe for). Also all the powers he gets, the pain he feels at the beginning while being in this form and wanting to make things right to save his race from the fate of being stuck in the sky. The Chaos Knuckles arc was really good imo. I also didnt really mind the form being permanent as it kinda showed a growth for him and the form wasnt really permanent as he stopped having it
Yeah but since Archie used it first we'll never see that officially again or we might have another brotherhood lawsuit on our hands....
as someone who relived this comic recently mostly through Thankskenpenders, who pretty much hates this era and every single part of it and its writers with the passion of ten thousand suns, its an interesting contrast to hear the opinion of someone more neutral, someone who just like me liked a lot about it, and didnt just project every single little thing in my own life unto it's characters. Like the different ways you two viewed Locke is pretty much night and day, and yours was so, so much better ever though you both acknowledge that he's a terrible person. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the end of this relationship in the main timeline too.
I agree and me too.
I think the strangest thing for me is now realizing that Knuckles’ cowboy hat might be the same one he inherited from his racist relative Hawking, given that the OVA continuity is shown to exist as an alternate timeline to the pre-reboot Archie Sonic universe.
True.
The Rouge music in the romance arc was a great choice.
I agree.
Man, Penders' downfall to what he is today was WAY too bigger than I imagined.
From having to use real backgrounds due to time crunches, to a Cans Without Labels of infinite delay.
True
@@amesstarline5482 if you know, then you know
( I understand who you are referencing)
@@amesstarline5482 a reference to John K. For those of you who doesn't/don't know the reference.
It's ironic that Penders complained about worrying the book wouldn't continue and his plot threads would be dropped unceremoniously when that's exactly what his BS lawsuit did to Ian Flynn's plot threads...
He only cared about HIS plot threads being left unfinished. He could care less about what anybody else was doing, and when given the chance he was more than happy to light it all ablaze. Even after these attempts at humanization, Penders is still a deeply self-centered person at the end of it all.
Just because he demands respect towards his plotlines doesn't imply that other writers (as in Bollers and Flynn) should expect the same from him in return.
True and I agree with it.
@@felixdaniels37true
@@saidi7975 true.
*"oh no"*
- some red guy
*Me: that would be knuckles and that's just the beginning. Also he is not some red guy*
*Him: oh no*
On serious note. I actually like the reference to say knuckles.
No. We won't just skip over "Stephenwolf then confronts the Council, who then confronts him with a gun." 😂😂😂😂😂
I will admit that was funny.
The ending of this video struck my heart in a way that I didn’t expect. My dad had a tumor a while back and was sick for a whole year. He thankfully ended up recovering, but it reminded me how fragile life is.
I never thought I’d relate this hard with Ken Penders.
Me too.
Reading Locke and Lara-Le's resolution in 25 Years Later was so great for me as someone who devoted so much time to this comic and I'm sure you felt the same. More than that of course is the subtext, unintentional or not, behind his resolution with Knuckles, and in a twisted way I love it. If anything, I'm glad the 25YL story exists for that scene alone. (and honestly I like the arc in general, uneventful as it s)
I frankly think the "uneventfulness" is kinda nice actually.
@@Game_Hero yeah for the nature of what it is, it works out quite nicely
Ironic. Despite me not being the biggest fan of Knuckles and his whole shebang in this comic, I ended up appreciating the effort Ken went into, even if he tended to do some admittedly sputid shit. Still, I have a soft spot Mobius: 25 Years later and the Rad Red's final talk with his dad..
Almost a shame I didn't really had a talk with my mom when needed most. At the very least, I'm glad that I've read those stories, and maybe, found a sense of closure.
Thank you so much for this enlightening deep dive, Dr. Lowart! Your commitment to Echidna Studies is truly inspiring.
I agree.
Major props on how well this video was done. Very unbiased and professional. Finding a lot of positives in these stories that I'd not considered, and not just focusing on the negatives.
The mobius 25 years later was one of the first things I'd ever encountered of the Archie comics and it pretty quickly turned me off from the comics. I wouldn't pick them up until later after the megaman crossover and reboot, and at the recommendation of a friend, read through the whole thing. That first read through was a slog. But after watching your video I feel like I have some new perspective. I don't think I really like a lot of those stories still, but I feel like at the very least I understand what they were trying to do.
Agreed.
Look at you, breaking cycles just like Knuckles, and letting Ken Penders be humanized and explain his relationship to his work himself.
I'm waiting for someone to call me a pig so I can exclaim, "there ain't an ounce of pork in this bod!"
😂
It amazes how every single echidna is red.
It's like if before Shadow and what not, if every hedgehog that wasn't a Sonic from an alternate universe was blue. The all looked like Sonic, had about the same proportions but only had minor differences.
MLP fan tries it: Justifying rainbow echidnas.
True
@@Dcfan200 that is kinda true unless you provide evidence.
@@yellowstarproductions6743
Mr. Penders never made rainbow echidnas. Lmao
Every new nugget of information I learn that I couldn't have known before about this series is fascinating and very eye opening. As always I take the time to admire these sonic comics essays, and thank you for continuing to further my favorite analysis series ever made on CZcams. I couldn't be happier that someone has committed to seriously intake all that Archie Sonic has to offer.
I agree.
Can't wait for him to get to the Ian Flynn era of Archie Sonic. The most competent stories came front that period.
Me too.
48:09
Wait...a Sonic character that was built as a bioengineered super weapon of Chaos Energy that gets studied to be used as a method to give the big bad an edge...that...that should be Shadow. Heck that WAS Shadow which lead to both the Shadow Android project by Eggman and what Metal Sonic would sort of do in Heroes.
4:10 I only know of this character because of the fanfic called recursion error where souron is fated to die by absorbing chaos emeralds while helping sonic.
Yeah the kid ripped her a new one
Also it was sorun
@@theshenpartei thanks for hunting down the name of a fanfiction character that I misremembered.
@@robbycooper6787 it’s a name one never forgets and it begs the most important question of all time: why hasn’t someone do a comic adaptation of that fanfic or make art pieces of the story on deviantart?
Also it’s Latin
@@theshenpartei I think it’s one of the better self inserts along with life can be unfair because even though it’s a mess, celtey uses her sonic knowledge to gain advantages, the idea is done kinda poorly but it’s kinda trying.
I really like thoses moments between Knuckles and his daughter, it's just touching.
Me too
Everyone already talked about how you handled penders in the comments, all I have to say is you started this series as a promise, "what no one tells you about archie sonic" and you've completely delivered on that promise still 3 videos and an Echidna egg later.
I agree.
The Knuckles Series should have stick to either Enerjack or the Dark Legion as the Overarching Antagonists.
or one, then the other.
As much as I despise what Ken Penders does today and he has way too much of an ego for his own good and has drawn and said some...questionable things, I am glad that you are not echoing everyone else about him as the internet seems to create this hivemind incentive to parrot things others say, especially if negative, as if it is unquestionable fact. When, in reality, there is more to it that simply gets ignored.
i shouldnt of took a break watching this, now im lost and gotta restart
I Agree.
you said "let me just try to break it down" while Pumpkin Hill played in the back and I honest to god thought you were going start rapping about the echidna's backstory
Loved every bit of this video just as much as the previous ones in the series. Im a huge fan of how you take your time and break down sections of the comic and share your thoughts and emotions. Cant wait to hear your thoughts on the Ian era and Sonic Universe!
Me too
Espio's horn being so high up on his head makes me so uncomfortable
thumbnail make me laugh bc it reminded me of these "don't dead open inside" kinda graphics
This has been a fascinating and through look at the whole of archie sonic and I'm absolutely living for it!!! Cannot wait for the next video!
Seeing the part where the comic turns into 1930s gernany, i couldnt help but think about the legendary Nazi Sonic fanart that was actually put in published material.
I did not know about that.
I just read issue 165 for the first time (started with 160 after your watching your review series), and oh my god the backup story of that issue was SO cathartic after hearing how terribly handled Locke was as a character! I'm not going to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, but it felt GOOD.
I can't wait to see the next video!!
It's really a blast to see all of the research and dedication you have for this comic that even I can't put
Me too
I've been loving every one of these videos so far and this one was a lot more thoughtful and kind than I expected. Not a tone I see on Penders' Knuckles very often, but it sure gave me a different perspective that I really appreciate having. Everyone who worked on this book over the years was so human and had such human reasons for doing things the way they did.
I loved your other 2 vids! Im glad im seeing this upon release!
This was great, you made experiencing Archie Sonic much much easier. Thank you for all that you’ve done and will do
I agree.
The FMA 2003 piano song at 1:37:26 got me feeling sad for a character I didn't know from a comic I didn't read.
*Nice to see a video that goes truly in depth with the Archie Sonic lore.* Always a fun watch 👌😌
I agree.
I appreciate all the heart you put into these videos! I grew up with the Sonic & Knuckles comics and have to 100% agree with your take so far. The comic was absolute madness but some of the themes and stories hit HARD, even all these years later.
I agree.
Honestly I swear he’s getting more and more unhinged by the video and I am loving it. I kinda relate to that getting invested in a story that shifts constantly and lies to you constantly, a story that you have hope for but still disappoints you but gives you hope back with a true masterpiece before ripping it away all over again as you try and work out if you’re supposed to care about these characters if the story even cares about these characters and just when you start caring you realize that the story doesn’t any significance gets undone as the entire tension and lead up just becomes meaningless but you still cling to a fragile fraction of hope
I agree.
here we are boys
56:05 BETTER MICROWAVE MY SON EGG
ngl i always saw Ken Penders as someone who ruined Sonic ...
but after reading the final Knucles story, i shed some tears
i don't fully agree on what he did what the characters and story but i see some different points
I Agree.
I can understand how Penders was aggressive and became a Diva with the whole Knuckles thing. But his attitude to other Archie coworkers and his disregard to how other people contribute to the work as a whole is something I can't abide. the fact to this day he keeps insulting the current Sonic writers despite not reading their work is just unprofessional.
Though hearing how he did try to make the book relate to the readers was nice, even if his story telling skills were confused. 25 years later is still one of the worst things I ever read, genuinely awful story telling.
i want to thank you for doing the gods work and putting the (lovable) mess of Archie Sonic/Knuckles in a accessible and enjoyable format 👍
feel free to take your time with the next part , i know its a lot of work and you DO deserve to do it slowly or take a break
you have already made 3 long videos that i have enjoyed every single second of it and i wouldnt mind waiting a few months for the next part because as i said after all that hard work ( in order to let people who havent experienced Archie sonic to finally appriciate it and fans of Archie sonic to celebrate it ) you deserve to take a break
I love these videos. Crazy that I checked the channel earlier today to see if I had missed an upload and you happened to upload a few hours after that.
thank you for this honestly this series has brought me back to my childhood I began reading the comic in 2003 when I was 7 and my older cousin had the past comics and then I began collecting up until issue 211 honestly I’m excited for the next part and EAGERLY WAITING! thank you so much!
If we don't learn from our past mistakes, we pay twice. The brotherhood is the epitome of this.
True.
Hearing Penders say that Lockes’ death was a tribute to his late father suddenly makes him being mad that Ian Flynn killed him make a lot more sense. Granted, I think he overreacted & should have realized that anyone that worked at Sega or Archie could have done whatever they wanted with the character, but I get why he lashed out.
I agree.❤
Another great video. The amount of time it takes to makes these kinds of videos are insane, and I love it. Can't wait for the next part!
Maybe when this retrospective could be complete, there could be a compilation/supercut (but those are just my thoughts).
king shit, Lowart! Loved this video and was looking forward to it since I was one of those kids that chose to grab the knuckles comics over everything else at the newsstand for YEARS, so seeing someone unravel the madness that is "had a bad dream, better microwave the baby" into a coherently appreciable plot thread was a treat!
Me too.
ive been enjoying this series a lot, and i legit sat up straight when i got the notification
this video was incredible, the final part of the story made me genuinel tear up just hearing about it. im very excited for the next part
This was a very good video! Most times the plots of Archie are dismissed or generally disregarded, but I like how you evaluated it as fairly as possible (even if it got very painful)
I was always a fan of Mogul, just because it always seemed like he had some grand plan we weren’t privy to. A shame he didn’t really get great until Ian Flynn, and particularly the Silver Saga.
I Agree.
Locke is actually a pretty cool villain, I like the idea of Knuckles having a psychotic, morally ambivalent dad and it would have been cool to set them up as opposing forces.
You know, over the years I've seen a lot of videos about Archie Sonic, a TON of them about Ken Penders, but it's super refreshing to have a video where it's not endlessly shitting on Penders. Yeah, you're laughing, poking some fun, but it's so rare for anybody to just say "He's only human, there was serious time crunch, he has a life too" and just like, yeah, he's not perfect but for what he did and why, it's completely understandable. I really hope we can start focusing more on how shitty business is rather then mocking individuals for when a product goes wrong in all areas.
These sure are true words.
This is gonna be good!! Love your channel
Love going through these comics. I’ve only ever seen the cover art on sonic mega collection but holy hell, I knew it’d get crazy
I saw “Locke-On Technology” and wasn’t sure whether to groan or start clapping. A sign that I’m watching a true piece of art (seriously though, this was a fantastic retrospective and the conversation with Penders really added some good context to how turbulent things were behind the scenes. This whole project has been great, and I’m looking forward to revisiting the Flynn era)
I Agree.
Can I just say, as a kid whose only connection to Archie Sonic was longing for the comics whenever I saw them advertised in my mother's old Archie comic books and having no idea how to procure them myself, this whole video series has been such a fantastic trip of nostalgia for a series I was never directly into as a kid (though I was a major Sonic game fan for many years). Thank you so much for doing these videos, they've been a blast to watch and listen to, and I love how thoughtful (and hilarious) your commentary has been throughout!
I agree.
Banger after banger! Keep it up my man!
Knuckles died for our sins
Thank you for these well researched videos about Sonic!
I'm so glad you finally went into the Knuckles comics!!!
I found a set of archie knuckles comics in a goodwill nearly a decade ago and i have never felt more shellshocked at the portrayal of knuckles (versus the Sonic Adventure 3D games). Been confused for a decade, so ty for finally explaining cyborg cowboy knuckles to us all.
i just got to the germany part
genuinely had to set my phone down and just, mentally prepare myself why also trying to just comprehend what im looking at
this comic is insane
So true.
This is like Christmas in May-June to me. Always a joy when these pop up.
I'm ready to go into the knuckles verse & knuckles
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS YOOOOOO SO EXCITED TO WATCH
I love these so much. Please more sonic archie comics videos. They are the only thing keeping me alive.
I get so excited when these videos come out
Seeing how amazingly you handled this REALLY makes me want to see your opinions on the Sonic Universe comics. Imo, they’re some of the best the series offers.
I agree.
This was...wild. Man, this just feels like a comic filled with tons of cool ideas that it ultimately never properly executes or delivers on. What with the interesting but fragmentary lore, it feels like this story might actually be better received today, when series like FNAF and (arguably) Dark Souls have popularised the idea of "theorycrafting" and normalised the idea that fans can and will piece together a coherent narrative from tiny, hidden pieces.
If this comic were out now, it would be way better received than it is. Which is sad.
I went from the manga that betrays you popping up in my feed to 3 multi-hour videos about a thing I slightly knew about from a Whang video.
You do a fantastic job with video essays