Super Sonic 2: Why Blue Eyes are a Big Deal
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2023
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Sonic Frontiers rewrote its own story and gave us the shonen training arc of Sonic. Let's talk about how those pretty peepers may make all the difference!
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Lots of the same Dragonball Abridged jokes in the comments.
...and I'm so proud of all of you.
It’s super duper sonic
ok
I am disappointed that you didn't say that Eggman successfully pissed on the moon.
Being both a Sonic and Dbz fan, this video just made my mood go from sad, to Super (Saiyan) happy!!! I would make another dbz reference, but I also wouldn't stop.
I love how you compared Sonic going through Giganto to Goku going through Piccolo, while I always compare it to Goku's dragon fist from Wrath of the Dragon.
I didn't quite hear it mentioned in the vid, but from my understanding, the reason Super Sonic 2 barely has any changes is because it is just Cyber Sonic but suppressed. That final black and blue cyber form is Sonic fully transforming, while Super Sonic 2 is just slightly tapping into the power. In other words, Super Sonic 2 is less of a new form, and more of a partial transformation, letting out the tiniest bit of the true power, hence the chill and low effort attitude he has during his moves (the crossed arms, the finger snaps, the literal hand wave parry). He is literally doing the minimal amount of effort in order to suppress the cyber power like how Master King told him to not go all out.
so technically ss2 is called cyber sonic (suppressed)
This is so Sonic it almost hurts lol. It's very in character to be exactly like this.
Up to a point. "Sorry Master King. Looks like I'm going all out after all" GOD THANK YOU SEGA for giving our boy back
This makes sense, but I wish they would've just made the blue and black form the actual form.
@RandomDrawer_tm nah i like that the Cyber Form is just temporary. It's like Sonic's way of saying "FCK IT" 😅
Yeah Super sonic 2 is effectively if Super shadow took off 1 or 2 inhibitor rings.
I'm hoping that Sega/Sonic Team lifts that "power creep" excuse and finds a way to properly reintroduce Hyper Sonic one day, but until then, "Super Sonic 2" is a neat form, despite how minor the changes are.
the only issue is we don’t necessarily NEED hyper sonic because of how unbelievably busted he is, so unless sega cooks up a final boss so overpowered that super sonic could basically be one-tapped, hyper’s staying in the cage
@@chaos9745 the Power of that Kind of Enemy would need to be TREMENDOUS because Ian Flynn already talked about How Powerful Hyper IS,in his mind its the Same Power Increase Super Gives to the user,but applied the Súper Form,
Like if your base power was a 1,the Súper Form multiplied that Power by 1000 (random Number because the multiplier would most likely be Infinite) then Hyper would be 1 X 1000 X 1000
I think im the only one to realize that as community we have a ton of power that we somehow dont know about. If we really and i mean REALLY wanted a change we can just do what we’ve done before, Mass outrage.
Remember sonic 06? Because of the mass outrage they ditched the adventure formula and playble characters for 17 years. Remember ugly movie sonic? Paramount had already said they wouldn’t change his design but due to mass outrage we forced a hundred million dollar company to walk it back and change it. We literally bullied them into doing it. We should just create a hashtag like #hypersonic and do it again
I'm against any higher forms because the power of the chaos emeralds is already supposed to be unlimited. Super Sonic 2 didn't make sense to me. Hyper Sonic only exists because of the choice to split S3 and S&K. They unnecessarily nerfed Super Sonic in Frontiers for gameplay reasons and it sucks. Because how SS2 was portrayed is how Super Sonic should already be. Because again, unlimited power. All of the bosses should have been absolutely effortless narratively.
@Sonicmasterxy I mean we know the master emerald is more powerful than the chaos emeralds despite their unlimited power so…
Seeing Eggman fire sonic out a gun reminds me of Sonic X when Sonic had his friends fire him from a battle ship cannon multiple times. He even got Shadow to jump in there and they both got fired at the same time.
For me it reminded me of Worlds collide with megaman launching him from his buster.
Instead it was Tails that time.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that got reminded of that
Activating the Sonic Power Cannon!
Sonic Power Cannon! FIRE!
This whole game is perfectly summed up in a single line from the song Undefeatable, the theme for Giganto's boss fight
"Running from the past is a losing game/It never brings you glory."
Both Frontiers and Final Horizon are all about acknowledging Sonic's past, ALL of Sonic's past, and bringing it into the modern day, taking the goofy, "cringe-worthy" elements from past games and using them awesomely. New forms, including a flashing, blue-eyed final Super transformation. Sonic going full Shonen hero, finally embracing the "Goku the Hedgehog" joke. Sonic using a CHAOSDAMN GUN that he stole.
"making the end ALMOST as powerful as knuckles, but not quite" honestly got me outta breath from laughing
Man, could you imagine how much stronger he would be if the Legendary Super Hedgehog God ritual was done on him with 5 other pure hearted Hedgehogs giving him their energy?
Lol
I guess there's 4 other Hedgehogs (Amy, Shadow, Silver, Classic if he's around) but i can't think of a fifth not counting Metal (If he even counts) so idk, Scourge???
@@Josuhscourge ain't pure hearted💀
@@jordanpro4480 I forgor 💀
I believe Dr. Eggman/Dr. Robotnik is a bit of a pure hearted fellow he just do a little bit of trolling to sonic
Regarding Sonic getting back up after crash landing after defeating The End.
My guess is that the Chaos Emeralds fully heal Sonic before they scattered once more.
Not that it matters since Sonic survived being shot from space in Unleashed already and Shadow in SA2
While not _exactly Canon,_ this Explanation was used before, in the Archie Comics (during *Ian Flynn's tenure as Editor,* might I add) - in the means that he defeated *Super Scourge* (Sonic's Evil Alternate-Universe Self, powered up by their world's Chaos Emerald counterparts).
Simply put, whenever Sonic comes out of his Super Form, he _still feels super-energised_ as if he hadn't been fighting yet - as Scourge's Universe *was a Polar Opposite of his own,* Sonic had the hunch that Scourge's Super Form would leave him *seriously drained of Energy once it wore off* - so he only had to _push Scourge to use up his Time Limit to leave him incapacitated!_
Once again, this is _Archie Comics Sonic,_ so it's not confirmed Canon. But as *a concept brought up by Ian Flynn,* and *the Evidence provided in the games,* it is _a very valid possibility as to how Sonic's Super Form might function..._
At least to Flyn anyway, but since he is the main writer behind this game, it could be. That is a very good observation there, not sure just how many people would remember/know about that arc.
I always thought that it was considered unspoken canon that Sonic always ends up being fully healed and in top form after coming out of the super-form. The danger of coming out of super form mid-fight was usually based on where they were fighting (usually space), and the foe he was fighting at the time. Like in Frontiers, when he came out of the Super form in the boss fights, he would die because the boss does something that he’s unable to get out of the way of or defend against in his normal state (I.e.: eating him out of the air, punching him into a crater, etc.)
@@raymondfisheriii791(or he just falls into the sea.)
As for the base ending, the battle against The End is only on HARD mode. Playing on Normal only amounts the battle to *3* button presses!
WHAT!?
I love Super Sonic's sass in 2, Regular Super Sonic isn't as expressive because he's focused
Super 2 however is *styling* on The End and has Sonic's openly sassy characteristics again.
Whether or not we ever see Super Sonic 2 again I don't really care, I just love seeing Sonic be an overpowered teenager while still being serious.
Although maybe Sonic just stopped goofing around as Super Sonic after what happened in Unleashed.
it seems like a case by case choice. Super Sonic in _that one_ Unleashed cutscene was sassy and cool as well
(until he wasn't)
two thoughts: #1. You should watch Super Sonic in Sonic X (if you haven't already seen it)- his SASS IS THRU THE ROOF
His fight against Perfect Chaos, English Version(not japanese, he goes typical anime 'your fight is with me'_
- he actually MOCKS THE GOD OF DESTRUCTION, and when his friends get blasted at, he blocks it and straight up tells Perfect Chaos "YOU CANT SOTP ME" - then he ,after some more fighting, mocks him "IS THAT THE BEST YOU CAN DO?" This is pure Sonic, even more than Frontiers Super Sonic "2", - but it's Super Sonic letting loose there
That is peak Sass Super Sonic. Frontiers did DO Super Sonic some justice, he actually converses in Super, and hangs around (since we know he can hold it indefinitely as Sonic Advance 1's ending showed) - his conversation with Knuckles was cool, after the Wyvern Fight, for example
#2. He should be that very overpowered teenager without the other forms- he doesn't need them
Since the Emerald's power is unlimited, the Super Emeralds were just the Chaos Emeralds with their own power overflowing and bursting more than normal due to the Master Emerald - Super Sonic needs to at some point in the future learn his own power(not just have a master bring it out)- more so- like before, but further- and then , during a boss fight afterwards- he needs to unveil his new power in a RAINBOW COLORED move- as a shoutout to Hyper Sonic- but this will be truly , Super Sonic's move
modern Super Sonic is one who ,rather than turn into Hyper Sonic- learns that the power of the Emeralds ,pure chaos unified by the Controller - is truly unlimited in a way not even Hyper Sonic, or Super Sonic '2' or Super Sonic Cyber, can reach.
This is the grand bargain that solves the Sonic Series' issues have Super Sonic demonstrate he can do all the things and use powers that Hyper or "2" or Super Sonic Cyber did- ...he has unlimited power- he can do it
As he gets better, hopefully he keeps his sass
We need a Super Sonic 3 with massive quills next. Then Super Sonic God, Super Cyanic and finally Ultra Ringstinct. Also a sidestory where Sonic just turns into an actual hedgehog.
Just read the Sonic Bible, he WAS a standard (though fast) hedgehog
you forgot super sonic 4 with fur on his chest and sonic turning into a huge monkey when the full moon comes out
@@c_sea1n
Super Sonic 4 = Super Werehog Sonic
Dont forget Eddie the Human. (Yes. Sonic became a Human at one point.)
Take your Like, "Ultra Ringstinct" is brilliant
Also the thing that separate those 2 Timeline is Sage's choice to calculate new odds by adding sonic into the mix so the reason ending 2 exist is because she Disobey'd Eggman order not to Calculate their odds with sonic sort in ending 1 if she follow eggman order she dies and eggman is sad so he learn the result of his action but in the 2nd he took his pride out saving his daughter
I like the idea of a stronger Super Sonic having more limitations that come along with its strength like how Super Sonic has the trade off of being able to fly and being invincible but loses rings over time. Feel like Super Sonic 2 didn't have to be a one-off form like the Werehog, Darkspine, and Excalibur Sonic because it's not an alternate form but a powered up version of one Sonic already has and there are clear reason for why it is powerful yes but also the difficulty of trying to remain balanced not losing the power but not being consumed by the corruption.
It might not be gone forever because there are cyberspace portals outside Starfall Islands and Eggman won in Frontiers - he got the secrets of Ancients and now could now replicate the technology, including cybercorruption.
It's literally just super sonic, no big power difference
@@reggielacey2235 You say that, but the thing Nick forgot to point out is that aside from the perfect parry being able to activate on any attack Super Sonic 2 was able to actual land damage you would expect in the fight whereas you can hardly do any damage if not any at all in the og form against The Surpreme End. So no there is a power difference and it makes Sonic Team's whole thing on power creep as Nick said as though maybe they are beginning to let loose on that.
I think im the only one to realize that as community we have a ton of power that we somehow dont know about. If we really and i mean REALLY wanted a change we can just do what we’ve done before, Mass outrage.
Remember sonic 06? Because of the mass outrage they ditched the adventure formula and playble characters for 17 years. Remember ugly movie sonic? Paramount had already said they wouldn’t change his design but due to mass outrage we forced a hundred million dollar company to walk it back and change it. We literally bullied them into doing it. We should just create a hashtag like #hypersonic and do it again
@@Gnidelit probably is, master king Koko said that sonic needed to hold back otherwise the power would delete itself. At the end of the fight when Sonic turns into cyber sonic, he mentions going 'all out' even apologizing to king Koko. The power is observed flaking off of sonic during this transformation. The transformation is also completely gone after sonic punches through the end. So it's probably gone. Emphasis on probably as we don't actually know what happens to cyberspace after everyone leaves the starfall islands. Even so, for sonic to get the ability to utilise cyber corruption he would also have to pass the trials again, maybe. Another thing, cyber corruption wasn't caused by entering cyberspace portals, it was caused by Sonic breaking his friends out of their prisons, the corruption could also be a side effect of the ends presence in cyberspace.
In conclusion SS2 probably won't be coming back
So they made two endings that pretty much resolve in the exact same way so that whichever ending that's cannon is entirely up to you, and so they don't ever have to acknowledge either ending in future games?
Something about that is very cool, interesting and slightly annoying.
Or its time travel shenanigans made by sage
That attack with all the strikes on the dark background that ends with a shot of him looking back is probably a reference to Street Fighter. Specifically Akuma and Kage/Evil Ryu
Good old Messatsu, AKA Raging Demon. But it might just be a common trope
Like when a swordsman slashes, but you only see the result after they sheath the sword
Only problem is neither of them cross their arms. The pose super sonic makes in the final story, after the credits in superstars looked like a spitting image
Nope. It’s a reference to the super sonic rush attack from the IDW comics. He used it the exact same way against Zavok in the metal zombies arc
@@sean1oo1 okey then maybe THAT is a reference of the Akuma move because like it's been around so long and the attack is way too similar to be a coincidence.
I like the end fight, it’s symbolic and if you actually listened to its speech it’s pretty interesting. Of course it’s anticlimactic but it does make sense.
i felt like this too even if it was anticlimactic something about ending a game with the hypest bosses in the series with a melancholy shmup battle against a beautiful instrumental track while the end monologues to you felt really special so i do sort of appreciate it for doing something different along with the new finale for taking the traditional sonic final boss and going beyond
Fortunately, there's a mod that restores The End's speech in the DLC final boss, so now we get the best parts of both; the shit-talking moon and the actually climactic boss fight.
@@sputnikmann6541is their a video I can watch of that?
Tbf firing at a moon thats hundreds of times larger than supreme is so much cooler than supreme with tentacles
It's incredibly similar to cell vs gohan
I mean Sonic reverting from a heavily damaged super form to an essentially fully healed base from could be taken as, “Changing from super to base no matter the state your super self was in fully restores your base state.”
Thats also a basic rule that super sonic follows in all the comics, so I was glad to see this occur once he got up
People still don't understand super forms.They have limitless power,if the super form is under any handicap or a new form is needed it's due to the inability of the user not the form itself,potentially super sonic will always be the strongest transformation sonic has(unless hyper retcon is lifted at least)
@ahmad *cough* master emerald
@@ahmadkazan5473No, the super form has infinite energy, not limitless energy. That is, Super Sonic has an infinite supply of energy, but he can't do whatever he wants with it. And given that the game refers to Super Sonic 2 as Super Sonic with awakened latent power, I think that some of the cyber corruption just helped him unleash that power and that he now has better control over the energy of Chaos, because Perfect Parry means parrying allows him to deflect any attack.
@user-q5f 👍
Personally, I like the idea of making upgraded Super Sonic forms like this plot-specific, while keeping regular Super Sonic as the standard form. It makes more sense that such forms are only accessible under certain conditions, since the Chaos Emeralds are supposed to be limitless but only grant the regular Super Sonic form.
I get why SEGA wants to avoid power creep. I know Super Sonic was inspired by Dragon Ball Z's Super Saiyans but the power creep in DBZ got out of control - and Akira Toriyama actually references it with Vegeta's "it's a bargain sale on super saiyans" line.
Personally I love alternate super forms, like Darkspine and Excalibur. Forms that are not simply more powerful like hyper or ss2, but provide a boost of power contextual to the story.
I would love to see what a complete darkspine would look like
Something I took about Super Sonic 2's design is that the red aura represented the violent and intensity of the cyber corruption that Sonic conquered, and that the blue eyes represented that even enveloped in this corrupted energy, Sonic remained incorruptible. Just like what Chip had told him all those years ago when another malefic power was trying to corrupt Sonic and failed.
And before someone asks, "well what about when Sonic went all out in his final attack?"
I takenit as Sonic is barely holding onto control now that he is pushing not only his Cyber powers to their limits, but he's also doing the same for his super form as well, and like what GA said, with the intense look on Sonic's face, from his eyes, all the way to how he was gritting his teeth, it was like Sonic NEEDED to hurt something. So good thing ivo was aiming the gun at both Supreme and The End as well.
I really hope that with all the positive feedback, as well as the reception that both Super Sonic 2 and Super Cyber Sonic got, will be enough for Team Sonic to lighten the reigns and finally give us back Hyper Sonic in well thought out and meaningful way in a future installment.
Fun fact: In spite of everything we've learned so far about the Ancients, we still don't know what the actual name of their species/civilization even is.
Plot-twist: their species is called The Ancients
In my fanfic Origin of the Emeralds, I created a species that ironically ended up looking like the Ancients. I called them The Cosmians. When Frontiers came out and the Ancients were revealed, I was like "woah, they stole my idea!"
we dont know the name of yodas species either or freeza's to make a dragon ball reference as is apt here. wouldnt be surprised if we never know and theyre always just called "the ancients" if theyre ever mentioned again.
@@saphcal Frieza's species is known. He's a Frost Demon (Frost Lord in Japanese)
At least the other characters call them "the Ancients" unlike Cosmo's species that never got a name at all. (Seedrian is a fan term.)
I totally understand the "power creep excuse". It's a thing who already parasitize alot of communities of japanese shows like Dragon Ball, One Piece or any stories of Shonen Jump with alot of pointless discussions about power scales who never go anywhere and who ruin their fun.
It more easy to just have just have to deal with one super form and something other unique forms for one games (like Darkspine Sonic).
That why I think it is better for this to be a temporary form.
And if they bring back the Hyper forms having them be very hard to control or having some other down side. Like only being able to be used with the super emeralds and those can only be setup in a temporary way on Angel Island.
Restricting them to certain situations means that they can at least slow power creep.
@@KumiChan2004 And if they bring back the hyper forms: Do not go higher than that, and most importantly do not base every villain on Sonic being able to go Hyper. The moment they make villains that can only be defeated with the hyper form instantly renders Super useless and removes any impact of Hyper, just like how it happened with super saiyan.
@@chrispy5249
Yeah. If the enemies become too strong and Sonic, along with his friends, start using Hyper more. Then it becomes more of what is the point of Super. Just like Super Saiyan 1 is a joke now.
@@KumiChan2004Still think its hilarious Toriyama limited Kaioken to X20 or every other form would become irrelevant as it would eventually surpass them in power
Sonic isn’t injured when he shoots down from the atmosphere because he doesn’t take fall damage.
As much of a Touhou fan as I am, the original final boss was a pretty big letdown and I'm happy the new boss actually feels like a final boss
it was better then the new one.
Probably because you're a touhou fan. Your bosses are bullet hells
@@multifan_productionsyes, ANY fan of bullet hell games would feel let down, not just Touhou
@akiradkcn agreed my friend
Id like to believe that with Sage staying alive, she could be the catalyst for Sonic's Cyber Super form.
33:00 well, I doubt it’s canon now, but Archie Sonic, when he fought Scourge, stated that when Sonic exits the super form, he gets a slight power boost of sorts.
😱😱😱
Not exactly a power-boost. More like, it rejuvenates sonic to a fit bill of health from when he entered the super form. Almost as if he had, in an instant, had gotten a full rest. Hence why the Anti-super form (scourge’s super form) basically drained the energy out of him when Scourge dropped his super state (instead of a rest, it be like he had just taken all the exercise the super form did, and applied it to him 2-5 times what he put in, greatly weakening him and tiring him out).
@@lanluhylrean1122 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
It is a shame we probably won't see this form again, because Super Sonic 2 is a great idea, Dragon Ball comparison or not. But due to the Frontiers-specific nature of the form, it makes sense why they had to find a reason to get rid of it. Add that to the list of one-off Super Forms that'll be modded into every mainline game for years to come.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind one bit if Sega Team finally approved Hyper Sonic as a "classification" of when Super Sonic gets too much power to contain properly. I think it would fit - after all, in S3&K, he has a screen wipe move. As if he has so much power he could basically vaporize an area
So Cyber Sonic could be classed as a Hyper Sonic variant, because it's a dangerous amount of power that he burns through in seconds and causes him pain while upping aggression
Super sonic 3 when
Super sonic 4?? 😱 😱 😱
Super sonic god?
Then we'll get to blue sonic..... Wait.
@@somethingclever4297 blue evolution sonic then
wait, we already have ultra sonic
I love the fact that they made Tangle the Lemur canon!!!!11!1!!
None of this really matters if Blaze and the Sol Emeralds DON'T get the same treatment.
Even then, Hyper should honestly be utilized with BOTH sets of emeralds, if even Hyper.
That's a hard sell I think and my reasoning is for two things said by both Sonic and Knuckles.
For Sonic: as he was introducing Blaze to Tangle and he introduces Blaze as Guardian of the Sol Emeralds he drops the line "They're like Chaos Emeralds but fiery" meaning that power over fire is inherent to the Sol Emeralds.
For Knuckles: During the meeting to bring down Neo Metal Sonic on Angel Island Tails was voicing the concern that Neo had control of the Master Emerald and could potentially use it to cancel out the power of the Sol Emeralds akin to what it does with the Chaos Emeralds. But Knuckles handwaves the notion saying that the Master Emerald cannot even if he calls it a hunch.
I really hope she’s in the next game just imagine her combat 🔥🔥😭
@@manicedawnfire8688 I'd like to imagine the Sol Emeralds just kinda boost the inate power one has hundred-fold.
For Blaze, that was her fire powers, as in the games she's already shown to be able to fly with her fire, if briefly, and with the sol emeralds she's just been able to do much more feats for much longer with that power.
With that in mind I'd like to imagine that the Sol Emeralds do something different from user to user, compared to the general super form the chaos emeralds have.
...wait hol on you might be onto something. We never did get a full explanation about the Sol Emeralds....
I think Super Sonic 2 is more akin to Super Saiyan Blue (Controlled Berserk) than Super Saiyan Kaioken/Super Kaioken. The Cyber Corruption can be seen as Sonic Frontiers' equivalent of the Evil Aura from Super Dragon Ball Heroes. It's an aura produced by an Evil Saiyan that has the ability to corrupt other Saiyans, making them go berserk and out of control of their fighting instincts. Vegeta, who got corrupted for a second time by Evil Saiyan Turles, managed to gain control over the Evil Aura after reaffirming his personal philosophy on Saiyan power, using the Evil Aura to empower his Super Saiyan Blue form.
Super Sonic 2 follows the same power concept that led to its transformation, harnessing the Cyber Corruption within him to significantly boost his Super State even further. It's essentially Super Sonic (Mastered Cyber Corruption), and that name sounds way more fitting than Super Sonic 2.
Cyber Sonic just makes much more sense than Super Sonic 2 because the whole cyber corruption thing is a power up that he's using on the super form. "Super Sonic 2" would probably be another transformation from the chaos emeralds
L.O.L no. Was the Evil Aura meant for A different species than the Saiyajins? Was it evil because Saiyajins were not compatible? Didn’t think so. Try Again.
@@ashuraomega1000Dude, it was only corruption due to the incompatibility with Mobians.
@@kartorrentlive7539 it's corruption. Corruption that will infect anything and kill anybody infected unless they can control it. You're not making a point here. And the evil Saiyan transformation was fueled by the fruit of the tree of might but you didn't know that because you probably didn't even watch dragon Ball heroes or any of DBZ for that matter. This is cyber Sonic not super Sonic 2.
@@ashuraomega1000 I didn’t watch Dragon Ball Z: The Tree Of Might, but I do know that the Evil Aura is not given by that Fruit
Sonic really just said, “This is a Super Sonic that has ascended past a Super Sonic. Or you could just call this a Super Sonic 2,” and then put in blue contacts. At least he hasn’t tried to go even further beyond yet.
Cough cough *Super Sonic Cyber*
Cough cough *Hyper Sonic*
@@michelk.8008 you missed the joke I think. It’s literally a reference to the super saiyan 3 transformation scene where goku says, and I quote, “This is a Super Saiyan. And this- (Transforms into Super Saiyan 2) this is a Super Saiyan that has ascended past a Super Saiyan, or you could just call this Super Saiyan 2. And this… is to go… even further beyond! (Insert like 2 minutes of Sean Schemmel screaming for the Super Saiyan 3 transformation)” because Super Sonic and parts of the Sonic series clearly draw inspiration from Dragon Ball. Super Sonic 2 being the name in the game files is very likely a reference to Super Saiyan 2, much like how Super Sonic is a reference to the classic Super Saiyan.
I think a fun, subtle thing they could do to show sonic gaining more mastery over his powers, and that he can now remain super while unconscious, if in the next game, the ring loss is slower, not by much, but noticeable enough that it can be acknowledged as intentional.
I’ve seen multiple sonic CZcamsrs talk about the update and review the story, but no one has mentioned or commented that right after finishing the Master king trials and he’s talking to sonic about not abusing the power, sonic was about to make a quick joke/remark like he always did in multiple games, BUT here he STOPS and decides not to. To me, In this game, sonic has seemed more mature with his attitude (and I do believe the deeper voice does that too) but still being playful with others such as Eggman, but he isn’t making dumb jokes or quick remarks just for the hell of it. There’s a small but very noticeable growth about the Hedgehog and I really hope SEGA keeps this maturity with him.
I always assume the rings were just chaos energy naturally clumping together all the other canons in comic and Tv shows do the same so they’re seems to be a connection
I can’t wait for sega to make an alternate timeline so we can get super sonic 4
I can't wait for Super Knuckles God Super Knuckles, also known as Blue Knuckles.
Can’t wait to see Chaos Instinct Omen and Sign
Can't wait for super shadow ego
@@Gnidel Super Knucles God Super Knucles literally being Chaos Knucles
*oh no*
I personally can't wait for Golden Eggman or even Black Eggman
If power creep is an issue, how about this? Sonic loses his one time transformations, but retains their power in his Super form.
Like how Sonic was able to beat Perfect Chaos in his base form in Sonic Generations. Whereas before he needed go super to beat him.
Better yet keep the blue eyes for Super similar to how hyper had green in the classics and use it as a growth thing so it could be like a Canon reason why he has green eyes as he grew up or something.
@@hypno17But what about the other characters that never canonically had a Super Form. How would you explain those?
@@hypno17red eyes are better than blue
It's pretty clear that Sonic gets stronger over time, even ignoring that one quote in Forces.
Power creep can be solved by giving the Hyper form draw backs that make it less than ideal as a new permanent transformation. So it gives a reason why Sonic would still use the Super form.
just a quick mention here, the alternative ending is what i consider to be the canon version, since it ties more things together and makes the act of saving Sonic something a little more significant than it is in the regular ending
31:17 Sonic hasn't been that feral-looking since Unleashed 💀
20:14 Sonic using his OTHER abilities also occurs in the old DIC cartoons, once in each show.
I personally didn't have any problems with the vanilla release. When i found out the Final Horizon would be an alternative ending I was a bit disappointed, so im glad you brought up that there are people who like the original Ouranos Island too.
I remember reading that the final fight was supposed to have Sonic calling out to the will and souls of the coco and ancients, gaining enough power to transform into Hyper Sonic. I don’t remember the whole story and why they couldn't do Hyper but i believe they were literally told they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT. So yeah it's a shame but it was going to happen. (Just realised he acknowledges this later on in the video so that's my bad, but i guess I'll still leave this for people who are just starting the video.
Amongst all the eternal complaining of sonic fans which (although often somewhat justified) can get so exhausting, this video and your incredible narrative flair and talent helped to re-contextualize everything about this update and remind me why I always have and always will absolutely love this franchise. Incredible video!
I can't believe I missed this video! Great content as always, hope all is going well for you.
I LOVE that Super Sonic 2 is essentially just Super Sonic if he had Super Gogeta's swag, it's so cold
I just love the further reference to the Super Saiyen forms.
I took this form as I did every other time Sonic had an alternate Super form.
Excalibur, Dark. Darkspine.
Just a one off thing
My idea. Hyper Sonic makes very rare and limited appearances when he is out of options to fight the villain. Doing this would make each Hyper Sonic appearance feel special and memorable. Much like how Gogeta from Dragon Ball Z instantly became a fan favorite after one short appearance.
@rickyrackey7930 Flynn had mentioned in the Bumblekast that the script did include Hyper Sonic go against the End.
Sega said no, so Super Sonic was used instead. But Flynn said the idea was still used.
All the Koco use their power to boost Super(Hyper) Sonic to help defeat the End
Sonic being shot out of a cannon/gun is a Sonic X callback and im all for it
I loved seeing that!
At this point I think they’re just saving Hyper for a big milestone game. A kind of game internally they would consider Adventure 3.
If that were the case then hyper would have already came back
Fun little minor thing to point out on the note of IDW being canon and Ian Flynn being brought on for the game: It's one of his rare environmental quotes, but Tangle gets a mention, a character created for the IDW Comic.
I Just Like To Point Out That Sonic Still Has Small "Cyber Sparkles" Coming Out Of Him At The End Of The Fight . It May Just Mean The Energy Is "Fading Away" , But It Could Also Mean He Can Still Use The Form .
Sonic being shot out of Supreme's Rifle reminds me of the Sonic Power Cannon, also from Sonic X. Using Sonic, or any Spindash using character, as a bullet in a gun is a cool idea. I'm surprised it's primarily been used in just platforming with those cannons up until now.
I like that one theory floating around, no idea who first brought it up, of the Special Stages from throughout the franchise as actually being Cyberspace. I haven't played Superstars yet so no idea what that says, if anything, about Fang. BUT if that was true along with that bit of lore about Fang being from the Special Zone, I wonder what that'd say about the Hunter Jeboa Boi.
Speaking of things from earlier in the franchise, now I'm wondering if that one mural from S3&K, you know the one that everyone goes on about being a possible in-universe inspiration for Shadow, could be interpreted as depicting Sonic fighting a Titan. Heck, you could probably make the case it depicts Sonic fighting alongside the Sage controlled Supreme using the Emeralds, with those three things on either side of its face being its "Mustache".
Also the whole game had a lot of focus on running AROUND things in order to make them venerable and yet when you fight a SPHERE you don't get a chance to Cyloop it regardless of which ending you choose. Feels like a lost world of opportunity.
I remember something somewhere stating the Emeralds give Sonic a power boost once the form was over, so it's possible that lasting effect they had after they shot out of him is how he survived the landing, let alone get up afterwards.
If this turns out to be not true I understand, I barely even remember where I learned that to begin with.
29:59 He does. It's the 100% reward for the DLC.
I struggled so badly with the gameplay in the update and it was getting very frustrating especially the boss rush. But I had the biggest smile on my face when i finally got to the updated final boss. It made the struggle worth it
The animation where he absolutely wombo combos The End, I always found it as a hidden eye to the IDW comics where he just slaps the shit out of Giant Zavok
Frontiers reminded me why im a sonic fan, I felt something in sonic I hadnt felt in years.
*Hope for the future*
As a kirby fan I can confirm we have a lot of orb bosses that are important to the canon
Brother, i remember finding your channel almost 5 years ago and i've been a Stan ever since. your passion for al things Sonic and your attention to detail is unmatched. love your content, love the nostalgia i fee from your videos, and thank you for all you do for entertaining a simple 31 year-old Sonic fanboy with these deep dives.
29:59 he did, but for the game to teach you that you have to 100% the island, witch include
1-get all characters to max level
2-defeat all guardians
3-finish the map
4-complete all cyberspace missions
And than,after all that, the game tells you that you can dodge to change targets
Seriously fuck that
Imagine not trying everything in a fight and being mad you suck so bad and think so little as to use all your combat abilities that the game just has to tell you outright how to do something you should intuitively know. Enemies that block you can evade during a combo to dash around them. Knight forces your lock-on onto his shield and he blocks your attacks. Your small brain never thought to do the thing you've been doing against the basic enemies and Ninja variants that literally block when you start laying into them. That's sad. In the Knight fight you notice you change targets as well when you dodge around its shield. Literal skill issue. I figured it out before I even knew you could get hints. Took me three tries because I didn't realize getting hit by the spooky orbs was taking my max ring count down the first two times and failed the second wind vibe check on those attempts.
@@YHUAN01 bro you didnt realised that your max rings drained on your first time playing the boss? That is embaressing I literaly found on my first atempt, imagine not paying attention to the UI and just focusing on beating the game.
See, that is how you sound
@@henrylotz Yeah I didn't notice because I had like 1000 seconds to beat the boss based off my max ring count so why would I be looking at my rings at all? I quite literally just didn't look at the ring count at all the first attempt and noticed it midway through the second attempt. That's not the same thing as not knowing a mechanic that's been in the base game since launch and then complaining you had to get hints to figure out something you should have noticed or tried within the fist few attempts, you literal clown. If I never knew it drained rings and said the skill check wall The End puts out killing you is random you'd have a point lol.
Your "own" shows just how much of a brainlet you are. And I literally realized it was happening my second attempt in the middle of it but didn't pass the vibe check in the fight right before I was going to beat it. I beat it the next time effortlessly. The max ring depletion was a completely new mechanic thrown in in all of Sonic for a Super Sonic fight, let alone this game. You out here bitching because you couldn't press the left or right bumper on a controller.
Wasn’t surprised you poked more fun how Sonic & Goku are more alike with the new form. ‘Super Sonic 2’ and how it also resembles SSGSS Kaioken (kept yellow form with red aura to keep less obvious comparisons lol) and the to fast to see combo on The End (reminds me of Ultra Instinct with the combo, pose, then the hits register); would be funny if the next new form he shows more quills and that pop far out to be like Super Saiyan 3 😄
i just love how intense his eyes look when hes looking down at the camera
Eggman:" Your making the same mistake as Trunks did little HEDGEHOG!!! DON'T THINK YOU CAN BEAT ME BY POWERING UP!"
26:01 "But this time, instead of hopping up to space to piss on the moon." Not the reference! I even had to rewind because I thought I heard it differently. 😂
I found this channel about a week ago. Very glad i did
“This is what is known as a Super Sonic that has ascended above a Super Sonic. Or, you could just call this a Super Sonic 2.”
-Sonic, probably
Hey listen, I was pleasantly surprised that Super Sonic 2 wasn't just a design change with an identical moveset. I mean, in a way he still does play the same (maybe even worse since perfect parry is harder to pull off) but stylistically he looks a lot more reserved when fighting, opting to keep his arms crossed most of the time and showing a clear increase in power with much more damage and, of course, some of the specific moves you can pull that look really badass. The sheer difference in his attitude between forms is fascinating to me since he looks to be giving it his all in Super form 1 and is actively holding back in Super form 2 which he then has to change his mind on resulting in Cyber Super Sonic which is somehow even more insane and aggressive than his first Super form. Both new forms I loved for being the most intimidatingly calm and balls to the wall aggressive versions of Sonic we've ever seen, I really hope they revisit these forms or new ones in the future
I love the ending, like db is definitely one of my favorite franchises, so seeing db stuff was awesome, it was just cool, also I love how sonic had sharp teeths when getting shot out.
I LITERALLY said the same thing about this transformation!!! I said, "This is more so Super Sonic Kaio-Ken"...dude, I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!!
Well I guess I'll throw in my two cents.
Personally I think the kaio-ken comparison is more accurate than calling this a new form. It feels like something that's added to Super Sonic's arsenal rather than a completely new transformation. Personally I think this was a really smart move on Sega's part it's a good middle ground for Sega that doesn't delve into power creep, but also gives fans who want that sort of thing something to enjoy.
Full disclosure, I'm not really anxious for new forms, or for hyper Sonic to return. But don't take that to mean I dislike new forms or hyper Sonic. I think they're awesome. I just don't think they are essential, like I don't think every game needs to have a new form, or even Super Sonic. I think Super Sonic is generally enough for a Sonic game's story, and we can show Super Sonic becoming more powerful over time, like how Frontiers reinvented how powerful we saw Super Sonic as.
I guess what I'm saying is that if they do want to bring in new forms or upgrades or bring hyper Sonic back I want it to make sense within the story. Like how Black Knight or even Frontiers handled it in their story, where it's built up to and makes sense within the story it appears in, but you also get the sense that this form probably won't return unless we were to return to that setting or something. Which makes that ability feel special, but not like it's replacing Super Sonic, and it's okay if we don't see that form again for a long time (maybe even ever) because Sonic still has Super Sonic. Essentially I think keeping Super Sonic as the main or standard super form makes sense since it will keep Super Sonic and the chaos emeralds relevant to the franchise. Which I feel like is a valid concern, if we kept getting super forms long past Super Sonic, would the emeralds even matter anymore? Would Super Sonic start to feel lame? Who knows, but I think Sega's hesitancy to bring in new forms isn't inherently a bad thing, since it addresses that very issue, and considering that new forms like Darkspine, or Excalibur Sonic do exist I think we have a good middle ground here.
But, sadly I also feel like there would gradually start to be backlash to new forms overtime if they started being a recurring frequent thing. Take the wisps as an example. In Colors they were received well, but gradually fans kept started to resent them returning in games that weren't themed around them, even though there was a pretty reasonable explanation for why we saw them afterwards.
If fans weren't receiving something like the wisps well, I'm not so sure how they'd react to seeing forms that "replaced" Super Sonic.
Regarding bringing Hyper Sonic back, I have an idea that I want to propose. Something that I've always kind of thought would be a clever way to bring that form back, while also acknowledging that it was technically an add on from the lock-on technology, would be to add Hyper Sonic as a reward for new game +. (Personally I'm not really a fan of new game plus as a concept, but I think it could work in this sense). So imagine a game where you collect the 7 chaos emeralds through special stages and beat the game. Congrats you unlocked Super Sonic for every level in the game, but you've already beaten the game, so what's the point other than just replaying the game for fun? Well that's where new game + would come in. Here you could start over with the seven emeralds from the start, and without erasing your progress (although generally the classic games have multiple save files these days but you know). So what would happen if you tried to collect the seven emeralds, a second time? You see where I'm going with this? Hyper Sonic would be the perfect reward for that, incentive to complete the game twice, and acknowledging Hyper Sonic's existence without blatantly making it canon, which spares Sega from having to make a story explaining why we never saw Hyper or the Super Emeralds again.
Yeah. This isn't a new transformation it's a power up that's being used on Super Sonic.
A thing they did in -3 and knuckles for that was, once you started the journey to acquire that form, that had to give the emeralds up to power them up. Meaning giving up the super form to turn into the hyper form once all the trials were passed. How would you handle that if it was made possible. Given fear of power creep, why not scale a threat to where it would neccisate the heightened form, an opponent soo powerful, that super sonic just isn’t enough to tackle it?
"its the same form" "nah look at the zappy zaps...see""
What many may not be aware of is that when Super Sonic was originally designed, the person(s) responsible admitted that they were huge fans of the Dragon Ball manga.
Man, words cannot express how much I felt, when Sonic went Super Sonic 2!
That was sooooo awesome, when Sonic snap his fingers bringing supreme/The End to the ground and when you parry, he simply just waved his hand.
My favorite part was when Sonic transformed back after he got knocked down, man, people can say what they want to say with the Dragon Ball comparisons, but it genuinely reminded me of Goku and Vegeta in a good way,( but still Super Sonic 2 finesse on his own) Sonic Team went hard with the Final Horizon update!
I was literally in awe.
@@hoohoo431Yes! Exactly that
“I’m sorry, I what’s different about it?”
“It’s got little zappyzaps!”
i really loved the new transformation and i really hope they’ll keep it around for just a bit longer to fully explore the possibilities even if they’re endless ;)
Sonic: "KAIOKEN!"
The End: "Kaio-what?"
31:17 That one second of playing as Eggman in this game is the only reason to play this game. They truly did hide their secret playable character
Something about this ending screams Power Fantasy....but that's no problem.
Cyber Boost Super Sonic, or simply Cyber Sonic as I call him, is thematically about facing the inevitable reality of change. Even in fiction, it's either adapt to fight another day, or fall into the abyss; no more memorable than a pebble on a mountain.
At least with Super Sonic, it is a result of experience and endurance, combined with Sonic's absurd degree of willpower. In the end, Sonic both embodies hope in the face of hopelessness; the last spec of dedication in the face of an uncaring abyss.
Also, let's be real: Sonic has earned his place in pop culture, right alongside Transformers, Mega Man, and of course Dragon Ball. In Frontiers, this is just the first piece of something much more. If a cosmetic power boost is just the first step....then we are really going the distance
Okay, I didn't look through the comments (and as of right now didn't finish the video) but I have to say two things.
One, I have yet to see/hear the comparison to Sonic X when he used himself as ammo for the gun. Am I the only one who remembers that? Surely others have noticed that as well.
Two, in the Japanese version, while that transformation to SS-Cyber is happening. Sonic is screaming in pain the entire time. The english version must've directed Rodger to end it early but I kinda wish I heard Roger Craig Smith does his version of a "Super Saiyan" scream and was able to go all out like Sonic did
I'm guessing that the reason why SEGA and Sonic Team want to distance themselves from Hyper Sonic is because the screen flash he creates can potentially cause seizures.
Of course, that doesn't explain the utter state that the Switch version of Sonic Colours Ultimate released in, but I digress.
They could just make him white..............
If eye colour and hair colour are important, will being left handed be this crowning achievement?
How sinister.
The death ball is literally a reference to Freiza nearly killing Goku, and the love for his friends giving him the strenth to fend it off. Sonic Team must absolutely love Dragon Ball.
Nobody gonna talk how sonics eyes resembles fleetways when we get that close up of him when hes shot out of thd gun???
Pleasantly suprised by the gun. It reminds me a lot of the space ship canon that could shoot sonic and shadow in Sonic X
Having experienced both endings, I like the second one better, not only because Sage lives, but also learns more about the strength of relationships through Sonic and co, now being able to take it with Eggman back home.
I don't really see the second ending, nullifying the first, by any means, since we can take both as standing on their own merit.
Most fans lean into the alternate timeline deal, but I look at this as a choice, choosing between having Sage selfless sacrifice or Sonic sacrificing his new power.
Agree to disagree. 😅
Still have no idea why sage killed herself in the original ending 💀
cuz the END was about to rush into the earth and self explode, but it wasnt very obvious in the cutscene@@Jonrocks7
@@therandomvideochannel8589 oh, that makes a bit more sense,
i am SO here for the dragon ball talk
I’d like to think that Sonic still has a bit of cyber energy within him just has to draw it out again.
Man, you always know how to make such a poetic sounding ending to a video about super charged hedgehogs.
Lets hope the next form we see is one that is hyper
Finally! definitely didn't expect this to be 45 minutes but I'm not complaining
Had the perfect chance to say "final horizon" at the end
When you mentioned the songs, this has gotta be the Sonic Soundtrack that goes HARD ALL THE WAY
I think super Sonic 2 is kinda like ssj 2 but I think the form sonic transforms into next after 2 is more like a ssj kaio-ken or just ssj grade 2.
I hope that update 3 is canon. I hope so. I hope Super Sonic Evolved (thats what I like to call him) returns or is mentioned in future games. Of course, he shouldn't be used all the time, but just as a cool thing to have. Initially I thought people were overhyping the new form, just super sonic with blue eyes, I remember me and my friends joking that Sonic became Blonde hair and blue eyed and looked like another one of my friends but when in game and streaming it to my friend on call, he said that I'd like the final boss, and I did. Perhaps my favourite transformation and final boss. (Also I hope he appears in mobile games)
Why would they go through all that work and say "nope, not canon" ? I know SEGA execs like doing BS like that but I don't want to think they ok'ed a project just to throw it under the bus like that
only thing I miss from update 3 that should be canon is the The End dialogue
@@ManiacX1999 Because they've done it repeatedly already lol
@@whirlwind6wind33 Where does it say that it's not canon?
@@Psepha Sega is very clear on what's not canon. Everything else they usually say its all canon.
32:50 I was so confused at this, because Shadow literally took the same fall in SA2 and DIED from it.
...And then I remembered that he didn't actually die from it
I was so hoping for a super saiyan blue joke when you started talking abt super sonic cyber
This is a super sonic
This is a super sonic that has assended past a super sonic
And this is to go even furthur beyond
This is a supersonic 3
Thats good
Man i hope we dive into the concept of Empowered Super Sonic in future games as much as would have love Hyper Sonic to be the final boss exclusive form for Frontiers it was a great concept
When I saw Sonic get into that gun I immediately thought about Sonic X season 3. How Sonic was launched out of the Blue Typhoon to absolutely wreck shit.
Super Sonic 2 reminds me of Shadow with his body language.
I kinda wanna see super shadow 2.
I get its two soon but it would be cool.
Heheheheh,
"Two soon".
shadow doesn’t need any new forms at all imo. bro is busted enough as it is he has literally no reason to get one
That would just be uninhibited super shadow