ASOIAF Theories: The True Origin of The White Walkers
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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Just sharing my ideas one my favorite book series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin. This video may contain spoilers for those of you who are not up to date with the series.
I'm just speculating and guessing on some ideas that I have on how future events will transpire in the series. Keep in mind however, I know nothing.
Feel free to leave a comment like and subscribe!
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Picture 1, by Fabien Alquier: koumako.deviantart.com/art/the...
4:39 : artburns.blogspot.com/ - Zábava
I’m from May 1st, 2019 and can tell you right now that the show gives no explanation or seems to care who the white walkers are or what their motives are
Future fucking sucks
Stupid Arya.. didn't somebody tell her that you only kill villain after he reveals his motives
@@Someonece lol
As far as I'm concerned the White Walker Origin in the TV show is not canon so I'll have to wait for the books to tell them.. that's if they ever come out, or maybe GRRM makes a spin-off detailing their Origins
GoldenGlass93
The show at the first seasons made the white walkers even more interesting then the books (only at the first seasons tho...)
Cause at the first episode instead of the white killing the crow friend the
White walker kills the crow and spares the other one...
Even tho he was inches from him but he didn’t do anything to him...
It happened again when Sam Tarly first sees the white walkers...
When that happened Sams is left a lone while the army of the dead pass by him ... and while this happen the white walker noticed him and again!
Spares him and let him escape!
That is so interesting since it happened twice, adding depth to them and it truly shows how the show back then used to have a better understanding of four shadowing and how asoiaf worked..
Or it was a coincidence, and it makes sense..
Because when the show didn’t have a book to work with things got down graded...
How yeah and now it got so bad that I can call it the same show anymore even if I compare it to the last seasons it just crazy gap of quality down grade..
Ho and the white walkers are now one dimensional zombies and has no depth to them, what a shame...
The show: nope.
lol
And we don't care about the show but about the books :)
The show is the show
The books are the books
GRR MARTIN
If the Others come from a place called 'The Land of Always Winter' then that's another clue to it's Irish inspiration. The Latin name for Ireland is Hibernia which mean 'The Land of Eternal Winter'.
+Brave Horatius Proven: White Walkers = The Irish
+Maxben L well we're certainly as pale as them anyway.
+Maxben L This is true. Us Irish start to melt at about 23 degrees Celsius.
+Brave Horatius I hope they they talk like with Irish Dialects if we ever get to see them talk. Connoe Mcgregor type of menacing voice.
Trint Flowers That sounds like a terrible idea. Connor mcgregor has a lower class Dublin accent. You haven't heard all the others, and there's a lot. Maybe a normal received pronunciation Irish accent might possible work.
"The North will never forget"
and
"Winter is coming"
It's almost as if the Starks personified something.
They did. Winter Fell.
Scotland lmao
The north remembers
Okay so here's something to add to the fire: in Irish mythology, the races in Ireland were not just Sidhe and Milesians. There were also Fomorians, who were giant-like men that warred with the Sidhe. Ice & Fire has giants -- so this actually is concurrent with the idea that Martin used Irish mythology in his supernaturalization of Westeros (which was more of a late medieval west Europe south of the wall). Remember, too, that the Sidhe had a Summer and Winter Court -- that may help bridge your idea of the Others being similar but not identical to the Aes Sidhe. In fact, that might be where the term "Others" came from -- they were the "other" fae. ;)
There's many more than just those three, the Firbolgs for example.
The Starks are essentially Irish Werewolves too
The Romans also used to call Ireland "the land of winter'.
Namilea LOTI did they really? It’s not very winter-y in Ireland...though I guess by Roman standards it would be cold
Out of all the theories I've heard about the Others and the Children, this is by far one of the best I've seen and I think it's really interesting. Keep up he great theories I'll be watching
Ever check out the 1000 world book club?
i think the lord commander falling in love with the night's queen and becoming the night's king is more convincing.
@@galibx2332
Sorry, you have it mixed up. :( Night's King and The Night King are two separate characters. The former is from the legends, the latter is the show's creation. His origin was also shown in the show (some random human in whose chest Children stabbed a shard of obsidian to create the first White Walker).
I like this channel because the narrator isn't led astray by fan fiction, which is, sadly, what the show has become ever since season 4 or so.
Yeah but dudnt matta.
I live in Ireland and you used or mythology very well massive props
Addition for you from and Irish person who is fascinated by both Irish mythology and ASOIAF: the connection with the Sídhe could explain why Brynden Rivers is not ageing and is still alive.
See in Irish mythology there is a place called Tír na Óg which literally means land of the youth. This is a place where people live for hundreds of years without growing old. It is said to be the resting place of the Sídhe and humans who go there stop aging (There's a whole story called Oisín in Tír na nÓg about a mortal who goes to Tír na Óg and stays there for what seems to him to be a few years but when he returns to Ireland 300 years have passed).
Anyway so this could explain why the Children of the Forest live much longer than men and how Bloodraven is still alive. Tír na Óg is thought to be a land outside Ireland as well as parts within Ireland.
+Grainne McKeown awesome analogy bro
+Grainne McKeown Is that why the Children appear to be younger, because they never leave the geographical fountain of youth? As in, not that they age more slowly, but that they stop aging altogether when living there? Perhaps, then, there is little difference between the Children and humans, only that the Children refuse to leave their fountain of youth out of a fear of death.
Alec Bernal I'd like to think so. They are just another race
+Grainne McKeown But the children of the forest populated all of westeros when the first men came though so how do you explain their long lives if they live so far from the north?
TheLightningKing The children of the forest did not populate all of Westeros, merely the forests throughout Westeros.
Where Tír na nÓg is located is not straightforward. It is not just one area (i.e. the North) but is select areas throughout Ireland, which is only viewable and accessible to certain people. Only those who have been pre-destined to enter Tír na nÓg can find it.
Do you remember the scene where Bran reaches an area of dwelling for the children? It is shrouded in some sort of magic making only Bran and his friends able to enter or even see it.
I'm hoping the books are better then then show. I just hope he finishes soon. Cause I'm disappointed with the tv show versions. They don't make me want to finish their version of the story.
Television show is like a wank wheras the books are like a threesome with gorgeous supermodels.
@@subutaynoyan5372 the TV show is just an awful fan fictions of two incompetent idiots...
@@subutaynoyan5372 too bad rn, the books is like getting a bj from the most beautiful woman only for her to stop when ur so close to exploding.
@@subutaynoyan5372 except maybe A Feast for Crows. That is a painful read
@@owenmottershead6110 I think it is just Brienne chapters that are just horrendous. And the whole book is a huge build up for things to come rather than things actuall happening like in Storm of Swords or Clash of Kings.
I really liked Arienne, Dorne in general, and the Iron Islands parts well enough.
Oh, Sansa's parts were not bad as long as Littlefinger is in the scene.
The Children of the Forest, with the help of a fallen, human King (now known as the Nights King), made the first White Walker with Blood-Magic.
As you mentioned, the Children knew they were too small physically & too few in number to defeat the "First-Men." So, acting out of sheer desperation, they decided to utilize Blood-Magic, performing a ritual that transformed this human King into the first White Walker.
Yet, endowing this King with such incredible power didn't prevent his betrayal. Immediately after the ritual, and perhaps still feeling spurned by the loss of his Kingdom, the Nights King brutally killed anything with a beating heart.
All of the world will be his loyal subjects once again, bound to his will and desire.
+Marc Rover I LOVE THIS. See I love it when people think out of the box like this. Absolutely brilliant!
Haha. Thanks! After watching your video I wanted to come up with a theory of my own.
The others seem so physically different from the children. They're tall and adult shaped. Children are small and childlike.
+Knightstruth Thats because they are the fathers of the children, and they are pissed cuz mankind killed the all-mother.
Why would they go around killing animals then? Animals didn't conquer the children.
They are not in tune with nature in the way the children are.
+christian beaupre might be on to something :O
May 14th, 2019. This show was such a waste. It had so much potential, but threw it all away for cheap visuals and terrible writing
It had great writing until they ran out of gr Martin stuff and had to start writing their own. Do you think you could finish his writing and be as good as he is?
@@mr.e7541 why would I need to? I'm not a writer.
@@MemorableVirus exactly. Neither are they. But because GRR Martin did not finish the writing they had to. And they are awful writers. But they're great at adapting what is already writing
The children of the forest of Leprechauns. The first men stole their Lucky Charms. The great others are the militant wing or the Children of the forest tasked with recovering the delicious Lucky Charms.
lol
what if the ulsters are the first men and the catholic irish the childeren of the forrest and or the others
Could be. The children of the forest did throw bombs. Sounds like catholic Irish to me.
Lol
Chris Clark LOL
I couldnt resond directly for some reason +Al R The leader of the White Walkers in THE SHOW is (The Night King) That's (Night King) NOT (Night's King)and According to George RR Martin these are not the same figure. And based on canon there is no reason to suspect that they are. There is a lot of confusion going around but certainly, HBO(if no one else has) have made a point of only referring to him as The Night King. Even on the Vinyl figure, he is simply (Night King) In the books the force behind the Others is far more abstract. Also the thing about the babies, again only in the show. We have a hint of that in the books when one of Crasters wives refer to the others as Crasters son. But that's it. And according to both the producers of the show and also GRRM many of the plots book to show will be radically divergent. So I would not be so sure there.
I like what you said about the seasons, very interesting and well thought out.
I've said for a while now that the story of the others(whatever they are) will be a sympathetic one. They are not evil it simply doesn't fit.
Thanks for commenting
+IdeasOfIceAndFire your right except they are both called The Night's King despite being different White Walkers within the show and lore. The Night's King is a title handed down from leader to leader of the White Walker starting with obv the original Nights King, so one can easily assume that our current Nights King is not the original considering it has already been stated by the show runners that our current Nights King is the closest we will get to the original Nights King.
+Spawnpool #05FUCKEM Nothing that you said is actually supported by canon. There is nothing in any of the books about the Night's King leading the White walkers. Also the Nights King in the books is not a Whitewalker he's just a guy. The "NIGHT" king in the show doesn't seem related to the legend of the "NIGHT'S" king.
+IdeasOfIceAndFire Maybe the Others were made by the Children? Maybe the Children used another type of creature made them like that to fight the First Men BUT it backfired on them and wasn't controlable?
+IdeasOfIceAndFire Are you sure?
gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Night's_King
It clearly shows that the Night's King of centuries ago and the current leader of the White Walkers are one and the same.
+IdeasOfIceAndFire ~ I respectfully retract my statement.
Beautifully reasoned and persuasive...even after the dust has settled from the botched ending of the tv show ! I have little hope of GRRM really finishing the rest of the books - maybe we will get one more - and I feel as though the cleverest of us are, in effect finishing it for him - and ourselves. Keep up the great work !
I really like the idea of the Children becoming the Others/White Walkers after finding some ancient entity, better than them being the ones to create the White Walkers. It makes the idea of the Walkers way more eerie, mysterious and creepy. And it is awesome.
The humans of the seven kingdoms are insignificant meat in the sandwich of a war between two opposing Gods which means all human machinations and lives are but a side issue in the context. of this God war. which of course they are unaware of.
This is the best GoT/ASOIAF-Channel on CZcams. Great, great job!
I love this theory and I think that it's very likely been GRRM's inspiration! Absolutely every aspect of his storytelling reads like actual history and almost every fictional event can be compared to an actual piece of history! I love it when people make these amazing comparisons! I find throughout the series of ASOIAF history often repeats itself too! It really is a wonderful thing GRRM has created but the fans have taken it to another level, and this is an amazing contribution 👍🎭🏆
Hey bro, again nice video. I have no idea why you dont have more subscribers I will tell my friends about you, really enjoy the video's. Great analization of George RR Martin's quote. Keep up the good work buddy! Thanks for all the wonderfull vidz!
I like the way you think AND the fact that you're a deep thinker to boot. Your theory is hugely plausible. Therefore, you've got a new subscriber ☺ Looking forward to seeing more from you!
Listening to you theorize makes me wistful to back when I was obsessed with the series, & so excited to see/read the ending.
Your voice is calming, & it puts me to sleep...
Loving some of your theories and ideas! Out of the box and against the norm yet make just as much sense. Good stuff and keep at it dude.
really cool real-world mythology connection! There's something interesting there, to be sure.
Another important thing to remember about the children of the forest. Their own name for themselves is "Those who Sing the Song of Earth," which is very intriguing to me!
It is true we don't know a lot of stuff needed to complete the puzzle. One of the main things for me is: what's the difference (if any) between fire and ice? Singers of the Song of Earth and Song of Ice and Fire sound very, very similar thematically, and I'm guessing that similarity will have some importance.
At one point Jojen says that (paraphrasing): there is no difference between ice and fire. Could this be the viewpoint of the Children of the Forest as well? If so, I see the Children as a faction dedicated to the elemental balance. They favor neither fire nor ice, but only seek to sing the song of Earth, of all elements, of balance.
The Red Priests praise fire and think ice and cold are evil. Maybe the Others praise ice and think fire is evil in the same way. The Ice and Fire planet could have cycles where ice might get too powerful, or fire might get too powerful. Those who Sing the Song of Earth wouldn't always pick the same side, but instead would always seek to even out the balance.
Of course, this begs the question then: is fire more potent right now? Is ice once again, (as it perhaps was during the Long Night)? If fire is too potent now, why just now, and why not during the heyday of the Velarian Freehold and all their fire/blood magic / dragons? Does it have to do with the red comet perhaps?
Awesome theory, only dampened by your misspelling of 'subscribe' :D
+Elton Maiyo lol
+Elton Maiyo And pronunciation.
+IdeasOfIceAndFire I still subscribed tho. great video
+Patrick Simpson What did he mispronounce?
I truly enjoy all your videos. Very in-depth. Keep it up! And I don't know why some people don't like how you change your voice when you quote passages from ASOIAF. I always think of it as listening to an audiobook.
That music you used is so creepy... I love the ideas presented in this video. I could see some of this at work. It's a great hypothesis.
It's sad how what was supposed to be the apocalyptic force in the series simply written off in a truly mind numbing fashion and merely a pitstop yet the show starts with them and how insidious a threat they were supposed to be ,BULLOCKS😠😠
Really nice.
Now I am interested what you think about Preston Jackobs' theory "The Minds of Wolves and Robins"?
Yeah me too!
As soon as he said "they don't think with the same mind" I thought of Preston Jacobs Theory.
If we now combine both Theories it would imply that all Children have turned against the Humans. And against Nature? Or would the only way to save Nature from the Humans be another Long Night?
Great video! I don't know anything about Irish mythology and these similarities are fascinating. Good job as always and your video organization is getting so much better. Kudos :)
Every time I watch one of your videos I just Love them more. I am down for this.
This theory seems to be quite close to what is at least shown in the show.
SPOILER ALERT.
White walkers did seem to come in existence due to Children of the Forest, at least in the show.
The spoiler alert doesn't do much good if you put the spoiler directly under it. It would make more sense to put it in your replies.
Raimonds Stokmanis I think the books plot might not be the same as the tv shows version, they both have separate outcome
yup, Cotf created the others. you're awesome, man. hats off.
amazing analysis, i've been reading a lot about this theory since seeing it on reddit but you're the first to provide the irish myth background and I think that's a really strong evidence. I hate that the show portrayed The Others as ice-bending zombies because in the books they were described kore closely to sidhes. This video needs a million views. Good job 🙂
I really wish the show went with the theory you outlined here, of a dark and sinister Great Other god whose was so terrible that even Melisandre doesn't dare utter his name. It would have more interesting, but then again there were so many things that went wrong in the final seasons. Like the way they rather causally abandoned Azor Ahai plotline, with Davos merely saying that Melisandre's God R'hlorr has "just fucked off". Having a character comment on the incongruity of abandoning a plot-line that has been built up since Season 2 is not good writing. They're spent all this time building this whole "Prince That Was Promised" story-line, and it just turns to be a dead-end. Oh well, there are still the books, provided that George R.R. Martin ever gets them finished.
I hope this is true. It would make bran about 10x more interesting
+Shuzzlin' reader It would be the first "evil" Stark, since all the others were so far more noble and protective.
Also, if he serves the Great Other, Arya the many-faced God and Jon Snow has some connection with the Power of the Red God, because of Melisandra....things will get really interesting.
+Shuzzlin' reader GUESS YOU BETTER GET FUCKING HYPED
They met Arthas.
Very nice theory, I particularly like the parallels drawn from Irish mythology. I do agree that the Others and the Children may be linked somehow.
Although I'm not so certain about The Great Other. A being that is only mentioned by the followers of the Red God, and remember, the religion of R'hllor is not only one foreign to Westeros (founded in Asshai) but it's also a relatively new religion. The Others made no appearance in Essos during the Long Night, so the postulations of the Red Priests that theirs is the god of light, life and all things good and the Great Other is darkness and death seems to me more like religious dualism taking advantage of a convenient obscurity more than anything else.
Thank you for the video/ theories. Love Aes Shide /Mileasian lore. Good ideas to chew on until George gives us more info.
In my mind when we first meet with the Others, had this vampiric nature in my mind. But how the time goes, it isn't clear that the Others and the White Walkers are the same race, or some of them are. In the show they did a pretty good job, describing the reverse Changeling origin of the Others.
I always imagine them like the Fire Giants from Ragnarok, Surtr. Which will destroy the Earth, and yes, the Humas may have a chance to defeat them, but still the world what they known drastically change in the process.
They are the same. I heard they called the Others "White Walkers" because the show Lost had a group called "the Others".
The Night King is a show only character, so far anyway. Jon never went to Hardhome in the books.
@@Coalemos I know. My problem with the show was that the Night King in the Books was this legendary commander of the Night's Watch who betrayed humanity, then defeated by the Northeners.
No offense to tgd actor who play it, just in the books it feel more mysterious. I don't want to make paralells, but like a Sauron level of villain in my mind. Something what is invincible.
it does make sense the more I think about it.
+Nils Rullander Wännström caligula, I know
+Nils Rullander Wännström I know that, his real name was gaius Caesar Germanicus and eventually became Gaius Julius Caesar Agustus Germanicus. so will you but out anyway.
Excellent analysis, the best video I have seen on a nature of The Others, its like finding priceless jewel in a chest full of tin coins :)
Woah!!! You pretty much nailed this thing man. Well done!
HOLY SHIT YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
+Christopher Barber AHHHHH OH MY GOD MIND BLOWN
He was fucking right!!!!!
I guess the mad king really could hear the old man in the tree telling him to burn them all (walkers) Just like hodor heard "hold the door" and that what drove him crazy
Christopher Barber he was kind of right... the others are a weapon of the cotf
Naaah... I am almost sure that what we have seen on the show are not quite what is in Martin's mind. Maybe It Will tend more to what is Said in here.
Ha, would you look at that. You nailed it. Congrats.
Finally, someone who uses that quote, & gets The Others right!!! Good job! I like the new format!!!
I just watched your Origin of Dragons and The Others that you did about a year ago, and you have gotten MUCH better. Keep it up!
Also, could you go back and do a new and improved origins of Dragons?
Watch episode 5 and get hyped! :D
+Mil A what is hype may never die. HOLD THE HYPE
This sounds a lot like how the Wild Hunt turned out to be an off shoot of the elves that are stronger, prouder and never knew subjugation by humans like the rest of the elves did.
+Jacob Darling Yeah the Wild Hunt and White Walkers have many similarities.
This is phenomenal. I had to share this across the realm (aka Facebook). Brilliant of you to pick up Martin's Sidhe mention and expand upon it to give an idea of what might be going on. Also random side note/gripe on the show, but I'm mad they didn't at least give the COTF cat eye contact lenses. I love that eerie quality about them. It really drives in deeper how not human they are. Especially in terms of the show where they look far different from how Martin describes them in the book.
Yeah show LITERALLY made them children...
Right?! I enjoy the show, but I think Benioff and Weiss miss some of the finer subtleties. They're called "children," because of their small stature, but they're really not. I guess they have to cut costs where they can, and cat eye contact lenses are kind of expensive :\
They should have modified it to fit for tv. Leave the children entirely out of it, and have BR say they're "away". Raises suspense, and saves budget for next season.
What a great vid! I’m currently getting ready to watch the next to the last episode in the final season. I have enjoyed the GOT immensely but.... can’t hold a candle to the books. Really hoping GRRM finishes the next books. Great, engaging story
Interesting theory, but the flipping between shee and sid-he just makes my eye twitch :p
I liked most of this theory, the shide comparison makes sense. However, the British accent at 5:57 was literally the worst.
So this is one of the most interesting theories I have heard, but it makes sense and it even seems like something George R.R. Martin might do. Bravo on such a good theory
Dude! You were sooo close!!! I had to come here just to post this! (and to subscribe).
*spolier alert*
holy shit!! he almost got it right :)
He did get the children of the forest and white walkers are in fact connected.
Arun Krishnan MK still i believe their origins in the books will not be the same
I actually thought the White Walkers were going to be like tall, smooth skinned, albino looking people with platinum blonde hair. When I first saw the first episode of Game of Thrones, I thought those were wights. I can say I was disappointed to see they were in fact wrinkled up looking undead individuals. The show is still my favourite on tv.
This did not age well.
Spoiler Alert..it was all a waste
Why would the dead be attacking Bran on his way to the cave if they were to be on the same side? On the show, the skeleton guys killed Jojen at the entrance, so they definitely didn't want them to get there. Children and the Others are not on the same team
+Sean O'Rourke ehhhhh
+Sean O'Rourke There is that theory that (in the books) when Bran is eating that paste in order to gain his powers, that some of the "red" he sees in the paste might be Jojens blood. Maybe he was sacrificed to help Bran by allowing Bran to absorb his "powers". So far in the books Jojen is missing, not confirmed alive or dead, yet in the show he is dead and the 2 do share main plot points.
+Sean O'Rourke Remember that the Children of the Forest and the First Men fought together against the White Walkers. The Walkers may be a seperate enclave of the Children that did not agree with the pact at the God's Eye, and placed the undead around the tree to attack the Children if they ever left it.
+IdeasOfIceAndFire I think he's trying to suggest that the others (white walkers etc) aren't on the same side as the children of the forest. This is because they attack Bran on his way into the tree... so I think he is trying to claim that they're not with each others.
+Sean O'Rourke The Children of the Forest created them because of the andals massacre, but they made a big mistake.. You're welcome
Good video. Preston and the 1000 world book club and especially in his series the The minds of Wolves and Robins will lead one deeply down this path but you caught onto something with that Ireland information. I had never heard that before.
Good stuff and thanks.
This is a really interesting theory. I like your channel a lot, nice work
I think it more likely Mel got her vision wrong. She does that quite a bit.
Winter = Others, Spring = Children of the Forrest, Summer = Dragons. Maybe they are all the physical manifestations of the seasons. Perhaps Jon Snow, or someone, brings balance to all of them.
+Sean Hinton What is fall?
Evan Urahara Bran Stark is Fall....
Lol.
Sean Hinton Idk man, seems like a stretch to me. You could very well be right of course, but we don't know enough about Bran's future to conclude that. For all we know he could become a part of the Children of the Forest, or even the new champion of the Great Other.
+Evan “Freshairkaboom” Urahara fall as in he fell out the window. anyway, I hope get some final clarity in the show regarding Snow's parentage and the full extent of Bran's powers.
Sean Hinton My theory is that Jon Snow, Daenarys and Tyrion are all Targaryans. Jon Snow is a confirmed bastard, and the Red Lady feels drawn to him when she first sees him. The asian-looking red lady that preaches about Daenarys also looks straight at Tyrion from the crowd, like she is drawn to him.
I think the red priestesses has a special connection to the Targaryans, and there are also three dragons. Since Daenarys is one of the dragonriders, I think Tyrion and Jon Snow will be the others.
SPOILERS 6.3: Since Jon Snow now left the night's watch, I think he will eventually meet up with Daenerys and they will figure out Snow's lineage as a Targaryan. Jon Snow will tell them about the real threat from the north, and together they will ride the dragons into battle against the White Walkers.
Tyrion is a Targaryan because of the conversation he had with his father, and because in the books it is known that Tywin Lannister is infatuated with the mad king's wife. The conversation is the one where Tywin refuses to give Castle Rock to Tyrion, and rambles on about how he "can't prove he's not mine".
We'll just have to wait and see, but I'd love it if Tyrion, Daenerys and Jon Snow were siblings, it would make perfect sense too - one from the north, one from the south-west and one from the east.
wow, thats a jaw droping theory you got here! i must return to books and dig dipper! youve just got one more fan and subscriber ;)
It my first time here and I already like this channel. Keep it up bro!
Bran will fight for evil. Evil will prevail.
The Lich King lives in the land of always winter!!! LMAO
+Taylor H The Night King is just another version of The Lich King. There must always be a Lich King.
+Koda, The White Mage Jon becomes the next Lich King :)
what a king nice job on this one mate
YO! You pretty much nailed it!!! Amazing job.
two favorite theories I've always had..when he enters the cave and hears about the extinction of the Children Bran says they took it so peacefully and gracefully, men would swear bloody vengeance and fight..
I think the First Men that had learned skinchanging and green dreaming did something that created the Others, or Became the others to either avoid death, or since Martin doesn't want some purely evil enemy, did it for a just reason..
that or the children way down in the caves he sees alive ane plugged in to the weirwood net have something to do with it.
the others do somehow impale dreamers on spikes in the land of always winter.
I don't know. I think your theory has merit, they're definitely interconnected and skinchanging on a massive scale explains the wights.
cold hands was just one used by bloodraven and allowed sentience.
if you read dunk and egg and know the history of blackfyre rebellions hes a pragmatic, but good man. a bit brutal at times, sent to the wall by Egg for killing a blackfyre heir under false pretenses during a council..
but he's not a villain.
I'm more curious if he did contact Euron before bran since he had flying dreams and is connected to ravens.
+crimsontowers about bloodraven. I have so many ideas that im saving for my videos just here's what I'll say, he's a game piece not a player. And that's all I'll say right now.
+crimsontowers The guy plugged into the weirwood tree is actually a human, and it is implied he is a former crow (Night's Watch member).
+crimsontowers Enemies are almost never pure evil. They always have motivations that seem proper from their perspective.
I always thought the old man plugged into the tree (blood raven?) Was a Targaryen? I may be wrong?
+Darrin Tisdale I'm pretty confident we'll find out that the whites/ the great other are probably well within their rights to be pissed off at men, who I'm sure have unwittingly broke some kind of peace treaty!
Sigh.. I wish someone would have shown this to D&D.. before they wrote the ..... That they did...
Thank you for your guesswork. I think we need to watch more episodes before we know because A: George Martin is not a slave to history; and B: he is not writing the TV series.
your best theory by far! good job! keep it up
the "entity" that was the Lich King right?
Song of Ice and Fire was written around 1996. In 2003, we have the last Frozen Throne scenario called "A symphony of frost and flame". Khm...
well they made the white walkers
Alright, this seems to be a great playlist to listen to while I play Dragon Age. Well done Ser.
Martin acknowledges he was very influanced by Tad Williams who uses exactly this set up in memory sorrow and thorn. What you describe is very much Williams setup in those wonderful books. He even has a magic meteorite sword a dead king and a foolish war of succession. Well worth a look.
So .....
Fae = Maenads = Sidhe = White Walkers
Simplified ?
Did you forget about the long night? And the age if heroes when the first men teamed up with the children of the forest to fight back the others and white walkers, who came from the land of always winter, meaning the others were around before or maybe at the same time as the children, in all I've read it never said anything about any children leaving and going into the lands of always winter. And besides the children of the first are all small figured beings that's why the andals called them that, the others are all supposedly tall stalky and very physically strong I think they're a completely different race of beings both very ancient and different. (Jaime lannister azor ahai!? Or maybe the targaryan bastard Aegon smuggled. Out of kings landing?
+Josh Kelso the Children show up in the story THOUSANDS OF YEARS before the Others do. What are you even talking about?
+Josh Kelso I mean did you even pay attention to the video?? I litterally go over everything you mentioned. EVERYTHING!
+IdeasOfIceAndFire where does it say the children of the forest have existed thousands of years before the others? I've read all books and websites about blah and blah I don't remember anything like that? All I know is that the others are ancient as hell and? And I know the timeline it doesn't technically have the others being fully known by the world until the long night which yea is way after the children but that doesn't mean the others were never there, the lands of always winter has basically never been explored they could have been the first of all beings in the game of thrones world. And if they've woken up or whatever from a thousand year slumber which is said obviously more then that, who is to say they weren't just hanging around long before they invaded for the first time
+Josh Kelso There is no proof that they existed before. For thousands of years Those Who Sing the Songs of Earth (AKA The Children of the Forest) coexisted peacefully with with and race of beings known as the giants. When the First Men came over on the arm of Dorne they warred with the children but eventually settled. Two thousand years of peace known as The Age of Heroes passed, and then came the time known as The Long Night when the Others suddenly appeared from a land known as the Land of Always winter. By this point the Children were diminished and every difficult to find. There is a gap in detail here but the Others retreated into the Land of always winter. Later the Andals came and forced the first men north. Eight thousand years later these The Others are coming back. Get it together. There is no mention of them at all before the long night. Plus I'm not making claims here I'm presenting theories.
Love it, great theory. Keep it up brother!!!
Wow, you were right on track. Very keen prediction.
Spoiler!
Theory confirmed (in the TV-show)! (more or less). The children of the forest created the white walkers to fight the humans.
You should read about the Fomoire, then... ancient gods from beyond the north of Ireland who bring plague and blight and fought with the Tuatha Dé (whom you're calling sídhe in this video). Some were said to be blindingly beautiful, but they were largely gods of disease and famine... and winter! WINK WINK!! The most famous of them was Balor (of the evil eye) who brought blight to the land. His stories portray him as a god who hides his daughter (an Earth goddess named Ethne) from the Sun ( Cian/Crian) to prevent them from having a child. He fails, they have a son named Lugh (a God of the springtime) who kills Balor. It sort of seems like Balor was a god of winter... Just sayin'; this is pretty thinly veiled borrowing on the part of GRRM.
+Nic Forster yes yes yes. I discovered all this by accident I'm currently working on a follow up to this video that's even more eye opening
Just as a note; Fomoire is pronounced a bit like "fovorah."
It also occurs to me that kings in Ireland were sometimes sacrificed to garner favour with Gods. That sounds a little King's blood-y too.
I really like the association of the White Walkers with the Sidhe. The sidhe were also described as otherworldly and beautiful, and not as harmless fairies.
+Nic Forster I am interested in Celtic mythology, given my roots. The Children of the Forest immediately reminded me of the Tuatha Dé even more than the WW's, so I am interested in your mention of the Fomorians, whom I remember from reading as monstrous and twisted beings. I'll have to look up the references to them as blindingly beautiful, as it is intriguing in the WW context.
The Tuatha Dé Danaan were probably an actual race of fairly advanced early people in Ireland who were eclipsed, pushed out, eradicated or just amalgamated into peoples of successive invasions, perhaps like the CotF in ASOIAF. They became a thing of myth, the sidhe, just like the CotF are like a myth to people in Westeros. The Irish didn't talk about them as fanciful Victorian fairies, they had a dread and respect of them, more like from an Old Nan story. They also were thought to have magic and some skin changing abilities, and were associated with nature, like the CotF, although their description sounds closer to a WW (book version).
There were believed to be different kinds of sidhe that inhabited different places, too.
The White Walkers and the CotF both seem to share aspects of the sidhe of Ireland description, although they do not seem a lot alike. GRRM seems to have borrowed from both Irish and Norse mythology, which is cool.
Craster's babies also made me think of think of the relationship of the sidhe/fairies and human children in stories. The sidhe supposedly like to steal children, and I suppose it was a coldly comforting thing for parents to believe that one's healthy human baby was living eternal life with the sidhe, and a sickly changeling baby was left in their place. (Tragic for the poor sick baby of superstitious parents, though. )
I've heard the theory that the Tuatha Dé were early inhabitants; but they really were just Gods. The theory that they were deified humans is based on the 'Lébor' (The Book of Invasions); but it doesn't differentiate between gods, heroes or humans because it was written by Christian monks. The difficulty we have with Irish myth is the diffusion of the old tales through Christian writings.
Sidhe is an odd word; it's a bit of a bucket term for any mythical being associated with the mounds of Ireland. The Tuatha Dé were no mere aos sidhe; they were the high gods. Think of them as the Olympians to the Fomoire's Titans. The Tuatha Dé have analogous gods in other Celtic countries and even in other Indo-european cultures... Nuada for example had a Gaulish form; Nodens and a Roman form; Neptune.
The myth goes that when humans arrived/were made, the Tuatha Dé fought with a couple of waves of them, then gave them the land and went into the other-world (sometimes associated with Tir na n'og), which could be accessed by the sacred sites like stone forts and mounds, bogs, drus groves, the surfaces of bodies of water, crossroads or over distant seas. Sacrifices at these sacred sites are well documented, including those of Kings or babies in desperate times.
The Tuatha were said to have 'hosts' of lesser nature divinities and spirits like nymphs, who escorted them. Likely the souls of dead ancestors were believed to join these hosts. Like with classical myth, some gods and minor divinities were seen as tricksters or even as malevolent creatures and demons. It is these minor divinities (nymphs, nereads, oreads etc.) which became the aos sidhe through local legends and the adaptation of local deities. These nature spirits are achingly similar to the CotF. Neither good nor evil; living in the wilderness, born of trees...
You're right; they were feared more than loved; the aos could bend time, they could steal children or abduct adults, they could rape women, make pregnant women miscarry, give people amnesia, they could make crops fail, they could ruin your health or steal your money... great care was made to appease them and to avoid offending them by harming a sacred tree (like hawthorn or oak) or disturbing a mound. There are still hundreds of stories of "ol' Paddy who cleared out the junipers from his field then went grey and died over night."
BUT! They aren't associated with winter, nor with trying to destroy humans... the Fomoire are. The Fomoire wiped out the people of Césair, Partholon and of Nemed. As representations of plague, hunger and winter etc, they are the enemies of man. It wasn't until the Tuatha beat them that Eire became habitable for the Bolgi then the Milesians (who fought the Tuatha Dé for the right to tame the wild island). That is very much the story of ASOIAF.
This type of religion with ancient wild gods (like the Fomoire or Titans), then the civil gods (like Tuatha Dé Danann or Olympians) and hundreds of minor deities for local geographical features and tales etc. is pretty common throughout Europe. To me, it's the association of the Fomoire with disease, winter and the far north that is the most interesting link to ASOIAF. Most other myths make these old gods just wild and uncivilised, like the Titans, but don't give them a seasonal allegory.
Some Fomoire were said to be dreadfully hideous; "One bloodshot eye for coveting, one gnarled arm for grabbing"... but some like Brès were immaculately beautiful. They also had children which became Tuatha Dé, like Ethne and Flidas who were great beauties. Their stories are all analogies for natural events, like ugly winter giving birth to beautiful spring or cruel wilderness producing tasty game... and some evils are beautiful; Brès was a personification of corruption, selfishness and tyranny, but he was beautiful because being wealthy and powerful is attractive; the evil lurks within.
In brief; the Fomoire are gods of winter and death, the Tuatha are Gods of nature and civilisation, the lesser divinities of the aos sidhe are spirits who represent the wilderness and nature.
Cool ideas! Keep up the good work!
As soon as I read the vision about a "tree man sat next to a wolf headed boy" in melisandres vision in A Dance With Dragons, my first thought was that's clearly a reference to Bloodraven and Bran, so it's good to see someone else make reference to it
I definitely think there is some link between the others and the children of the forest. I also know that none of the characters on the books are pure good or evil. there is no black and white just shades of gray. so it would make sense for us to find out that the others aren't as evil as we think. The reason for why they do what they do and why they exist will probably end up being something people will be able to relate and even empathize with. I also think the dragons coming back into the world and the seasons of the planet play a part in the overall arc of the white walker story. perhaps the others are actually here to save the humans from themselves. that unknowingly the humans are going to end the world and the white walkers are trying to stop it. Plus it seems very probably John snow will end up being the balance between and all sides. half fire and ice (stark and targaryan) and now possibly half alive and dead (maybe he will reanimated but in a cold hands or stone mother type of way). I think well find out that danarys is actually going to be the one that might destroy the world, even with her good intentions and will end up having to sacrifice her dragons and her own life to save the people she loves.
+DoomFinger511 ~ Hype everyone for her invasion of Westeros and coming home tale, only to slip in a sacrificial for the greater good plot twist. I love your thoughts on this. Well said and thought out. *begins slow clap*
A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE:
A fantasy epic written by an anti-war environmentalist to paint a highly realistic portrayal of humans and their eternal self-destructive cycle of war, genocide, religion, politics, greed, and environmental destruction, building up to the final confrontation between themselves and an ancient unknowable enemy that represents climate change, weapons of mass destruction, artificial intelligence, and the wrath of mother nature rising up to protect the world and all other life, sweeping the world clean of the true monsters in the world: humans.
GAME OF THRONES:
A generic Hollywood adaptation of arguably one of the most original, intelligent, and important works of fiction ever written, now reduced to pop-culture gags, #teamwhatever's, and moronic social media debates about which pretty actor will get to sit on a metal chair that stopped being important to the plot after the first season - because as the books point out: most humans are incredibly loud and incredibly stupid - as the show points out.
Definitely agree about Bloodraven. Any other book and a creepy old man luring a young boy to a dark cave would make him the villain. Bran's story is the only one in the books that may give us more insight into the whitewalkers origins/intentions, but I definitely like you're idea of the White's being a genetic branch of the children of the forrest. As suggested earlier though, if the children are reptiles then this may lead to the assumption that Westeros is indeed taking place in a post-apocalyptic world. And the genetic splitting would be explained by thousands of years of being underground/in hiding. Great video man - keep up the good work!
very nice catch/observation!just got me to subscribe!
Aen sidhe? Iorveth is an Other?!?
+Mihir Lavande Aen Seidhe, the spelling is a little different, but that is besides the point. Sapkowski - the writer of the Witcher bookseries - has dealt a lot with early English and Irish literature and history, no wonder he had taken some inspiration from it.
+Smith John I merely jest good sir, because I saw the obvious similarities between the mythologies and Sapkowski's novels.
That is obvious good sir, still, sorry for being an anti-joke chicken.
+Smith John No problem!
That is no way to comunicate in comment section, now sleeps with each others mothers!
This makes me think of WoT even m ore now. So similar.
Love your vids. Glad I discovered your channel. Keep em coming. I would like to ask your thoughts on the link between Syrio Ferrell , and Jaqn Haggar ... I think they are the same person .
Ur channel is so underrated, keep it up.
sid·dhiˈsidē/nounHinduismBuddhismnoun: siddhi; plural noun: siddhis
1. complete understanding and enlightenment possessed by a siddha
Consciousness itself!!!
I am wondering if the writer is a meditator!
This is magic known to ancient India and China known as Samadhi.
Can be practiced by those born under specific stars (Uttara Bhadrapada -Google it) in the form of Raja Yoga or from a scientific point of view, the Unified Field, pure awareness itself!
+Andrew Stang-Green
Shhh, Magic has been kept secret and disguised as illusion for a reason, not everyone is ready for it.
+Kitreena Stang-Green
The world is waking up, look at the work Dr.John Hagelin is doing in neurosciences and physics at cern! The world is ready, realax and enjoy.
+Robin Decradehl
Truth
+Andrew Stang-Green
It amazes me how many people are becoming aware of their own existence as of late. We really are entering the age of enlightenment.
+Xbox360Chicken
Like it says in the Vedas, When you choose to wake up with sincerity, so too shall "your" world.
It's weird how you keep pronouncing it sid-he then switch to pronouncing it shee...
You're a genius.
Love your videos, man.
I love this video, thanks for making it 👌
sid·dhiˈsidē/nounHinduismBuddhismnoun: siddhi; plural noun: siddhis1. complete understanding and enlightenment possessed by a siddha
My point? Magic of consciousness beyond mind and body.
+Caremvalatica
Why do people copy/paste other people's comments? rude,...
+Caremvalatica "Magic of consciousness beyond mind and body." That's meaningless.
without mind there's no consciousness.
Rajesh KC Only to those still tapped in that paradigm, Science is even telling us there are in fact different states of consciousness, all of which are just as "real" but outside of waking, dreaming and deep sleep there is just pure intelligence. The Unified Field itself. This fourth state of consciousness actually transcends the lower states like waking dream and deep sleep, this state is known to the science community as Sumadhi. Google it,
Basically without mind and body, there is only pure awareness, i.e consciousness. This is very subjective, to see (be) you must experience it yourself. The kicker? it is literally the easiest "exercise" you could imagine but is in fact fundamental to physics as well as your every day life.
Very well put, very well received. I suppose for the series they'll go with the CotF aligning with humans with "others" remaining as the only threat.
The theory I've heard kicked around for 15+ years is that the Others are some form of corrupted Children or they're some close relation to the children. The shows version is obviously much different (what's not!?) so I'm personally still on board with the idea my friends and I talked about back in the day. I do like the analysis on the Irish folklore, and it has obviously had a huge influence after hearing it. Good stuff!👍
Although thinking more about it, the Others are supposed to have an alien like beauty, other worldly whereas the children are definitely not described as such being more animalistic hobbitish
Man you were so so close. The first vid I thought of after tonight's episode.