Dolby Atmos Panning Laws?!?
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Become a Member of The Daily HiFi Crew: bit.ly/dailyhificrew
AFFILIATE LINKS (Use our links if you would like to support our channel)
Crutchfield: howl.me/ckjnFE0G7s5
Amazon: amzn.to/3rZcX3U
Best Buy: howl.me/ckjnJ0R0K4k
Target: howl.me/ckjnK7A6ePh
DHF Crew Merch: shop.dailyhifi.com
Listen to the audio-only version of this podcast: anchor.fm/dailyhifi
Subscribe to Joe N Tell: / joentell
Subscribe to Techno Dad: / technodad
Subscribe to Erin's Audio Corner: / erinsaudiocorner
Follow us on Instagram: / dailyhifi
Disclaimer: This may contain Affiliate links that earn us a commission if you purchase using those links. This is at no additional cost to you. - Zábava
In other words creator intent is OUT THE WINDOW because what we’re doing is an upgrade to what the mixer’s intended (7.1.4 near field vs reference mixing stage)if your setup “improves” on their native physical layout not to mention software matrixing by Trinnov. Also 5.1 will always be a game of phantom compromises dependent on the quality of the DSP phantom algorithm
Do you think it's the resolution per channel? So, if you have 4 height channels, that's not enough speakers and resolution to control 16 squares of meta data information. It looked like 1 Atmos channel can control 1 square independently, and 2 squares begin to pan. But, imagine adding 6, 8 or even 12 Atmos speakers. Well now the resolution per channel is the same, but they can cover the 16 squares of meta data far easier than 4 can.
If speaker count doesn't increase Atmos resolution, then it maybe a limitation of Dolby meta data. Because the floor doesn't have this restriction. One workaround for this is only ever place height effects at 99% of the height, then you still gain full resolution of panning movement because it's still tied to the ground.
I think it's more related to how Atmos in the theater works. There they have all height speakers on two strips about 25% from the sides. The way they made home Atmos must be related to that. Maybe to keep it as compatible as possible.
@@JorixRW Probably yeah.
When using 4 overheads with the rear pair directly above the listening position, it only make sense to use Top Middles for them, as then when centered overhead sounds are playing, it's not going to try to phantom those sounds from both the front and rear speakers, which would pull the sounds forward. The Top Middles in this case will handle all the overhead sounds from the rear to directly overhead.
the 5.x.x surround speakers, despite what Dolby's Atmos guide says (90-110), should really be 110-120 (which is what the guide shows for 5.1.0 and 4.x.x setups) allowing for good phantom side
But if your L R fronts are set you 30 deg like most do won't the speakers dispersion pattern fill in some of those sound gaps in the 44 deg area full corners since speakers are p not laying a laser beam straight line out to your ear, there is a come of sound coming out. that's why speakers are snapped like they are instead of straight cylinder it's a come/funnel shape. Please advise
It is the same issues when using 5.1.x with a Trinnov. It is doing a phantom image bn front and surrounds. And you know what: with DTS X it is staying with the surround, like it imo should be. There are some DTS X panning tests which I downloaded where I tested for it. In some AVRs or Pres the Atmos decoder is somewhat strange.
Can you provide the links?
@@sjsphotog Unfortunately not this week. I will try to look them up later.
I don't have my front heights (on wall) in the very left and right most corners they are more in line and above the L R fronts so maybe this is actually better to avoid the dfead spots in the corners ? Not sure but that's just how i installed them. Maybe it's wrong but oh well.
It will sound good. I worried about this but then I didn’t want to bunch them up closer too my Top Middle (Trey Ceiling is not centered on my MLP)
How much is the avr software making changes based on measurements. If I enter in 3 ft height for my front wides will that only get info designed for that and leave out data that is 7 feet tall? If I placed my front wides up at 7 feet on the wall will I gain that info but lose some info that is down at 3ft? I need to experiment with that.
I reported this in early Spatial Audio testing - Anthem Too Middle it would fold the Top Rear into Top Middle. I didn’t test 5 base layers in my MRX1140 in my compromised 7.1.4 TF TM I’ll do that soon I’m thinking of my office system in 11x14ft room and I think 5.1.4 and pondering exactly how to lay that out since door and windows are in the way. I was thinking maybe to try a Sony or move my Anthem and upgrade main theater.
I don't know the details of the Sony avr guy, but I have a Sony 7000 and there are several options that might effect surround. "upmixer" on, "type a or b speaker relocation" on, or 360ssm might have been on. Then in general using all of the measurements and auto cal with the microphone might need to be ran again since who knows what those rules are. Also, verifying which "sound mode" such as a.f.d movie and not afd music, etc.
Another issue might be the source he is playing the disc from. PS5 gives me trouble with atmos on their movie app. If playing from a pc file then I don't know how the graphics card works since that is the hdmi output. I don't have a dedicated sound card that is atmos.
I recently place Klipsch rp500m2 (bookshelf) as fromt heights, sounds fantastic. Now for the back I was already planning on those same bookshelf aiming em down directly at me due to having my couch next to the back wall (i wouldn't get the angles that Dolby dictates to work). But setting em as top middles in the avr wouldn't cut the sound that is supposed to travel all the way to the back of the room? Rear surround is also a pain in the ass .
@12:10 that's what i have to do on my 7.2.4 layout n my theater room some I can't have speakers in the top height back because there is no wall just open space so i have my 4 heights mounted on front height wall and side height wall above my side surrounds but in my Devon 4700h i tell it i actually have rear heights instead of side heights so that it Tricks it. Not the best option but that's all i can do with my layout. If i had an actualt well behind my rear surrounds then i could mount proper rear heighta. No issues to trick the AVR to do what you want. When you run Audysey it should help to smooth it out a little to compensate for wind locations i would think. I think it sounds ok to me.
Yes i think the speaker layout from Dolby for a 5.x..x layout should t have the surrounds slightly on an angle behind you instead of at 90 degrees to you exact left and right side which is the correct speaker location when you have a 7.x.x layout so that there is better panning from side surround to rear surrounds. If they are too close to each other you won't hear/feel the proper transition from one sound zone to the next when going in a circle pan around the room. But yes when you only have a 5.x.x you need to compensate and put them slightly on an angle to the side and behind you like on a 10 or 20 degree angle from your listen position to the side walls
Something happens with my Denon 4200 receiver, if I use the speakers in 7.1 but with front wides, the Dolby Atmos information from the surrounds comes out through the front wides and the sound from the rear heights comes out from the surround sides, the only solution is to use the avr with an external amp at 9.1.
True ATMOS was not intended to havev 9 bed layer speakers. The TrueHD code which is the base data layer in all Atmos discs is only set up for 7.4.4 or 7.4.6 the bed layer is always using 7 and if you have wides for 9.x.x then your AVR/processor is adding that on after the fact but it's not native it's matrixing that info
That sounds like it is doing a layout like on 0:40 the center top layout in the image. A sound from 90 degrees should then be a panned location between front wide and surround, somewhat closer to the front wide.
@@JorixRW You are correct, but it is wrong that a sound that is supposed to be in the side surround is heard in the Front wides when those speakers are so close to the front stage, that only happens to me when I use 7.1 with Front Wides, but if I add Front Heights the sound from the surround sides and back surrounds is downmixed to the surrounds normally. Also if I use it in 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 everything sounds normal, for some reason only that happens with 7.1 Front Wides in Dolby Atmos, if I use Neural:X for upmix in 7.1 Front Wides the sound goes where it is supposed to go , that detail only happens with Dolby Atmos.
@@sjsphotog There are Blu rays like John Wick and some music that have 9.1.4. That "all" discs with Atmos have 7.1.4 is wrong. Most are in 7.1.4, but if you are looking for movies like Godzilla vs Kong, The Matrix, they have 9.1.4 and it is not an upmixer.
@@JoseRuiz-ff3zb Yes, I don't know why the handling of the surround channels in Denon is different between 5.1.X and 5.1 + wide. I just measured how it behaves. But it makes switching between different configurations on the fly more difficult.
Fellas yo😊
We are all beta testers. I believe firmware upgrades can and have been adjusting these values within AVRs
I must be lucky as this ho😢w I set up my Sony system. Front height middle height, and sa5s sourond which bounces rear height. 6.2 ear level as using center lift on the TV.
Thanks for sharing his findings Joe, great info! Does he have an avs thread on this?
To your point about moving an object around in the corner of the renderer, 25% or less, we won't get any panning from additional speakers but won't the level of the object increase and decrease at least to simulate that movement? I imagine our brain with the visual cues will handle the rest
No AVS thread. Feel free to start one though. Tag me - @joentell
I love that you are doing this! Verify, verify, verify. Thank you.
There is no debate and both are not right. Stop spreading misinformation!!!!!!!! Anyone with half a brain cell can understand that you must follow what the mixers are using in order to recreate the positioning and panning they are creating. Any other layout won't give you what they heard when mixing.
So please ignore all these CZcamsrs and follow what the engineers at dolby and the mixers are using. It's simple... no need to mess things up with what some random CZcamsr believes