Is Indonesia Still A Bastion Of Moderate Islam & Diversity? | Insight | Full Episode
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Earlier in the year, Nahdlatul Ulama, the largest Islamic organisation in the world, celebrated its 100th Anniversary. At its Centennial, it called for Muslims to anchor their faith on the nation-state, rather than a universal caliphate. NU reiterated a need for moderate Islam, in line with Indonesia's secular political identity, eschewing radicalisation.
Meanwhile, anti-Israel protests have led to the cancellation of the U-20 World Cup in Indonesia. Some fear that the politicisation of religion has already begun as the Presidential election approaches. Can Indonesia’s unique brand of religion, known as Islam Nusantara, prevent a repeat of the religious riots in 2019?
0:00 Introduction
03:46 What is Moderate Islam?
08:45 Politicisation of Islam
14:25 Progressive Islam vs critics
20:37 President Joko Widodo’s firm stance against hard-liners.
26:37 Is conservatism growing in Indonesia?
29:31 Impact of regional autonomy laws on minorities
39:02 Repeat of identity politics in 2024 presidential elections?
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As a Chinese Indonesian. I will say, MAJORITY of Indonesians are actually still tolerance. Current intolerance acts are done by small part of muslims. And these extreme people/ groups are not only targeting non-muslims, BUT their main target is the MAJORITY tolerance muslims too.
My family liked to go for road trip since I was young. A lot of time we stay in a very small town and sometimes we stayed nearby village. Once I stayed in NU village and when we had our morning walk, we met a lot of villagers. We the chinese families walked and greeted/ be greeted by almost all villagers. Indonesians who are not contaminated by the extreme people. are very kind people.
Iyaa ga semua orang muslim indonesia itu rasis ke chinese koq hehe.. justru akhlak org indonesia itu baik2 dan sopan2 yg ga akan kmu temui di negara lain…
@@Babbarbadshah ga usah bawa2 masa lalu dalam konteks ini. Yang penting masa sekarang ga ada konflik antar etnis!!!
@@Babbarbadshah tau siapa biang rasis di dunia ini? Ya media barat dan yahudi…
Emang beban si fanatik tuh. Ga ada kontribusi untuk negara. Gw banyak temen Jawa muslim juga, tapi mereka gak seperti orang di video di atas. SAMPAH !!!
@@astridwib8karena angpaonya 😂, nggak dikasih anggpao ya didemo😂🤣
I'm still very optimistic that as long as NU and Muhammadiyah are influential in the social culture of Indonesian society, radicals will not interfere with Indonesia's moderation
Saya lelaki Muslim dari Malaysia. Sebab itu sampai kini saya enggan pakai jubah, serban dan pakaian yg seperti Arab keAraban bila melakukan aktiviti agama Islam seperti solat dll. Saya tetap memakai pakaian biasa terdiri dari kemeja atau t-shirt dan seluar (celana) tanpa pakai songkok dan ketayap bila solat di masjid. Saya selalu ditegur teman2 bhw cara saya berpakaian bila melakukan ibadah Islam sangat tidak sesuai. Saya diberitahu kalau ke masjid harus berpakaain begini atau begitu. Saya tolak saranan sebegitu. Bagi saya selagi saya menutup aurat spt dikehendaki agama, saya tak perlu berpakaian seragam yg seperti Arab atau Pakistan atau India Muslim. Saya berpendirian bahawa saya adalah Muslim, bukan Arab atau Pakistan atau India Muslim tetapi Muslim Melayu Malaysia..
When I was studying in Singapore, I've heard about the popular move by the Malays to differentiate their Muslim faith with those of Saudi Arabia and I wish the movement can reach Indonesia stronger as well. My people is called Batak and our ancestor land is located around Lake Toba in North Sumatra, we are currently the strongest Lutheranism Christian in probably Asia and we're proud to worship our God at the same level of importance as our "Adat" (tribal tradition), even though our religion is that of Abrahamic, we can't go away from the fact that our blood is of South East Asia and both shall be balanced out.
Setuju..saya pun sama.
I hope muslims of India can learn from u aswell it's not about religon it's about arab influencing our nation
Muslim asyik muslim. Bosan
@@dtsidabutar kafir batak kek elo yg mesti musnah dari Indo, suka buat ulah, tebar kebencian sana sini jijik
Indonesia must be very wary as to not follow the path of Iran. Majority of Iranians nowadays are Muslims BY NAME ONLY. But plenty of them are really agnostics, atheists or Christians. Many returned to the ancestral faith, Zoroastrianism. Why did this happened? People became tired. People became extremely fed up by the politicization of Islam and by using the religion as a tool of oppression. Now, plenty of Iranians don't care about Islam, it's just a cultural thing for them nowadays.
Indonesia will lead to the same path if these radicals became the majority in government. And it's highly possible that non Muslims will declare a civil war against the radicals. It will be a huge loss to Indonesia. Papua and West Papua are Christian majority regions. North Sulawesi is majority Christian. Bali is majority Hindu. Kalimantan, Maluku and North Sumatra are Muslim majority,.but there's a huge Christian minority population there. It will be very risky if these things will happen to Indonesia just because of some crazy Wahhabi ideology from oil producing countries in the Middle East.
thats not true iranians are far away from islam
Iran have problem with american puppet government back then, and the Zionists land thieves near them is the reason why Iran fell into far right government. They've got no time to be soft
You cannot compare Iran and Indonesia , Indonesian people loves Islam they put their money and soul for Islam, they just being ruled by corrupted government , the Dutch colonial colonized them for 350 years but they failed to make Indonesian as secular country .
@@violetrose6014 Anda salah baca sejarah Belanda tidak menjajah 350thn
@@violetrose6014 that's why indonesia is slave of Arab. Kurds and Iranian have realized and left islam .
If moderate Islam should failed in Indonesia, Pakistan may be the best current example of what could it probably became into. Pakistan failures to maintain the Moderate Islam amongst it's populace and letting extremists Muslim Organizations brainwashed them into submission weakened the Authority of the Government despite it already being an Islamic Republic, more hardline Government installation like Caliphate, Sultanate or Islamic State; is their End Goal. Aside from elimination of Religious Minorities and Pluralistic Beliefs that they deemed not compatible within their own Religion, religious sects or Preliminary interpretation and understanding of what their religion/sects are subscribed into believing.
seems like going that way sooner or later
@@0241roobo really?
Moderate islam has been defeated in many parts of Indonesia by ultraconservatives. Their definition of moderate is actually moving away from middle grounds. Eg: in 90s, wearing tudung that exposes significant portion of hair was an example of conservative lifestyle but now it’s deemed to be a liberal modification to the true islamic teaching. Just about time, moderate muslims will be a rare species in Indonesia. We’re witnessing the birth of Indonistan i believe
@@0241roobo I hope not.
@@nrspeed1407 It's sad state of affairs here.
*_Gua muslim, tapi untuk gaya berpakaian & budaya tetap Nusantara INDONÉSIA, tidak mesti harus mengikuti budaya Arab. Karena Agama kristen di Arab saja berpakaian sama seperti Islam di Arab, karena itu budaya!!!_*
Kristen itu agama sudah expired
@@koshurkot3892 manusia terlalu bodoh untuk Hidup
@@koshurkot3892 muka lu noh expired
@@fathanardhi2598 lol
berarti balik pakai blankon, kemben, batik, kebaya, dsb ya?
jeans, kemeja, hoodie, dkk itu kan dari barat
If you compare the situation in 70s and 80s, yes, nowadays Indonesia has more Arab wannabe.
And lost its own identity in the process.
@@moonlightserenade6292 Actually Indonesians look more conservative on the surface.
If you dive deeper, you might be surprised that you’ll still find many women here, either hijab-wearing or not, especially those aged between 18-30, doing something *unheard of in most other Muslim countries* such as drinking alcohol or having premarital sex.
I’ve encountered numerous Muslim girls who wear hijab almost daily, study in the university or are employed in the formal workforce, and praying pretty regularly, *who had 1, 2, or even 5 body counts* and they’re not even married.
Sometimes they didn’t do that with their boyfriends but sometimes just friends with benefits or even simple hookups. Sure, there are lots of religiously conservative minded-people in Indonesia, but a lot of them are just appearance on the surface. You can’t judge from afar or from the coverage, who are truly conservative and who are not.
@@ezrathegreatconqueror No we are not talking about morality here. We are talking about Indonesian *culture* ... back then until 1980s you can see how many people are still wearing kebaya, still retaining their culture & tradition. But now? Just arab wannabe. Lost their identity. Unlike Chinese, Japanese, and even Koreans who retain their culture strongly..
Yeah. Wants to become an Arab but treated 3rd class citizen in Arab countries.
Govt can easily crush those extremist but they let them roam freely for political gains.
It’s very hard to draw the line between religious freedom and extremism.
Even worse, they even played along with them just to secure votes.
Define "extremist" ...
@@kebeleteeek4227 Define "extremists": those who seek to replace Pancasila with sharia laws & forbids the construction and even already bombed place of worships belonging to religions/beliefs other than theirs.
@@BarrySManifold Pancasila was formulated by founding fathers based on Islamic values .. The alcohol ban .. porn ban .. gambling ban .. LGBT campaign ban ... atheism/communism ban ... etc ..are all based on sharia/Islamic laws ... Whats wrong with that ?
Im an Indonesian,
Thank you for discussing Indonesia whether its still "moderate and safe" or not for non muslims.. I hope it is still 🙂 i think political practices, ideologies n conflicts coexist everywhere in this world while there is no religion teach about violence and hatred 🙂 Pancasila is final for Indonesia ❤️✊️👍
Islam, Christianity are political ideologies and are very organised they are not religion they are designed to control masses, rally people for war, control them with fear hatred. This is the reason kings chose between islam or christianity and then made all their citizens as such because if they didnt they were vulnerable to getting replaced. This is the reason no politicians says anything against them. Also no such thing called moderate islam anyone who says I am a cult member has to follow the manifesto word by word.
Cna is Western bias..
BEWARE..!!!
Indon is a joke🤣🤣🤣
Hey badboy don't be dumb violence against nonbelievers written in quaran read it and read also Muhammad way of life and how truly islam are 😂😂😂😂
Safe what? 😅
Can't even watch this personally, I'd like to thank CNA to bring this up as I can see many triggered fellow Indonesians in the comment section which shows the power this topic brought. As a Christian Indonesian, our community might be the most affected in the unfortunate surge of radicalism. However, I still have faith in my countrymen and the increase in education as well as globalization (with its blessings and curses, ofc), the radicals are still a minority within the majority, they're just very loud and the government acted as enablers. Eventually though, we need to realize that this community is targeting mostly rural and uneducated people with almost no knowledge of basic theology, hence stable development for all parts of the archipelago need to be the priority. God bless Indonesia ❣ #unityindiversity
The radicals are very loud indeed.. I have seen some of them even openly threatening or discrediting other people and their religions, kind of surprising that they are still not behind bars to be honest.
Well we Muslims suffer too. Although as a Londo Indonesians assume that I am Christian and I can feel the hatred towards me as a result.
In fact, Muslims are the main target for those with 'Salafi' views. One of the Muhammadiyah Masjids in Jakarta I used to visit regularly I no longer feel welcome in. Other worshippers object to my gold rings! And would almost certainly condemn me for my views, especially in relation to Islam and jurisprudence.
Fortunately in my desa in Java things are still remarkably tolerant. In fact, despite our Masjid being Muhammadiyah most worshippers are really Kejawen. The point being that it is so difficult to make generalisations about such a massive entity that is Indonesia.
It's double standard. Indonesia is already incredibly tolerant. In the west, it is seen as the finest examples to have parties anti Islam in parliament that hold regular Quran burning events. Imagine if there's an anti christian party in DPR RI that regularly burns bible, we will be globally seen as a terror state.
Sipaling tersakiti batak kafirun
@@TheMagicofJava not undermining the affect of it toward the moderates as well, in fact as minorities you guys can be the only possibility of our true security. I appreciate your comment, at the end of the day we're one Indonesia and forever will be despite our differences, and no amount of radicals can say otherwise 😃
Indonesia becoming more conservativ compare to 20 years ago 😔
Actually Indonesians look more conservative on the surface.
If you dive deeper, you might be surprised that you’ll still find many women here, either hijab-wearing or not, especially those aged between 18-30, doing something *unheard of in most other Muslim countries* such as drinking alcohol or having premarital sex.
I’ve encountered numerous Muslim girls who wear hijab almost daily, study in the university or are employed in the formal workforce, and praying pretty regularly, *who had 1, 2, or even 5 body counts* and they’re not even married.
Sometimes they didn’t do that with their boyfriends but sometimes just friends with benefits or even simple hookups. Sure, there are lots of religiously conservative minded-people in Indonesia, but a lot of them are just appearance on the surface. You can’t judge from afar or from the coverage, who are truly conservative and who are not.
Never. I was a minority there for 16 years. The ever-growing extremism has devastated my life and my family with constant intimidations and bullies. Now I've left for a better place.
Extremist fundamentalist Muslims follow the Sunnah completely. So those must be pacific. The violent ones are not fundamentalist they're breaking the sunnah
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities".
you mean atheists such as Stalin, Lenin, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong and Jeffrey Dahmer?
communists?
@@ghrbaa6727is-lamists
Believing something is coming from nothing is indeed very absurd.
Politics and religion is never a good mix. They should always be separate
They are always mixed my guy.. They were never separated in the past and they were never separated now. Not only that, religions are also being used as a political tool since medieval times.
@@aldyhabibie9717 For muslims, politics & religions will always a mixed, in fact everything happened around your prophet were motivated politically so the mix of politics & religion will always valid for u guys
Agreed
That's a Western mindset
Agreed! 🎉
I am a Muslim non-Indonesian and I totally agree with the state being secular. There is no such thing as caliphate nowadays, its really a fantasy to hope to apply it in real life in this day and age.
While we do support Palestinians, I am totally against the violence and intolerance against non-Muslims in Indonesia or any where in the world. This is not from religion, this is a flawed understanding of the religion and unfortunately increases in ignorant communities.
Anyone who rejects the Caliphate/Islamic Political System is a Kafir.
The choice is yours!
Secular are not true Muslim they fellow tagut.Inshallah caliphate coming near future
@@azmainfayekmoyukh7176your the idiot one , there are no such as things are forcing someone to follow the exact same political goverment of 7th century in quran or hadith
Caliphate will be established once we have strong leadership of Mehdi with Isa (as)
Without oil every Islamic country is destined to be like paxtan!!
Currently, there is a silent war between Moderate Islam and Radical Islam in Indonesia. The war was triggered based on the results of scientific research by KH. Imaduddin Utsman Al-Bantani, a Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) figure in Banten Province.
The results of his research proved that radical Islamic figures such as Habib Rizieq Shihab, Habib Bahar bin Smith, and other figures were not direct descendants of the Prophet Muhammad. This shook and hit straight to the heart of the defense of Radical Islam in Indonesia. Then shake the loyalty of their grassroots members.
Furthermore, the Radical Islamic organization began to be abandoned by their members and lost prestige in Indonesia.
Good then! That NU man is a hero in my books if what he does cripples beyond repair the radical Islamist movements in Indonesia! 😊
@@mrconfusion87 The method of proving lineage of the Prophet Muhammad from the Habibs is very easy. The Habibs had to do a DNA test.
The results of the DNA test can tell whether the Habibs have the Bani Hasyim gene from the Prophet Muhammad's clan. If the Habibs do not have the Bani Hasyim gene, they are definitely not descendants of the Prophet Muhammad.
Menggoyahkan akar rumput?? Iman kita tdk akan pernah goyah,, hanya orang-orang munafik,fasik yg goyah imannya
Rokok halal cuma ulama NU coba saja ke semua ulama di dunia gak ada yang menghalalkan rokok ini salah satu dosa yg dihalalkan joged2 juga dan masih banyak lagi yg lain bersyukur jika masih ada Islam "radikal" yg kamu bilang itu setidaknya mereka tidak kompromi dengan dosa.
Our founding father Soekarno said: Become muslim doesn’t mean your Arab. Become christian doesn’t mean your europian and become hindus doesn’t mean your indian. We just indonesian..
And i will correcttion in minute 1:40 we not muslim nation, we just the biggest muslim population ❤❤❤
No..Indonesia is Muslim Nation, not Islamic Nation. See the differences
@@lyvieana8972biggest muslim population . .
Not Islamic Nation.
Thats stupid
@@lyvieana8972what you know white ppl
That's why become Muslim to become Arabs, you can ditch your language and writing script for Arabic , same as your mahummad
If Indonesia should failed,
Pakistan is the closest country it would become. I wish goodwill , Love and respect to Indonesia. I don't want a good country on bad path. I believe in wisdom of common Indonesian.
Actually Indonesians look more conservative on the surface.
If you dive deeper, you might be surprised that you’ll still find many women here, either hijab-wearing or not, especially those aged between 18-30, doing something *unheard of in most other Muslim countries* such as drinking alcohol or having premarital sex.
I’ve encountered numerous Muslim girls who wear hijab almost daily, study in the university or are employed in the formal workforce, and praying pretty regularly, *who had 1, 2, or even 5 body counts* and they’re not even married.
Sometimes they didn’t do that with their boyfriends but sometimes just friends with benefits or even simple hookups. Sure, there are lots of religiously conservative minded-people in Indonesia, but a lot of them are just appearance on the surface. You can’t judge from afar or from the coverage, who are truly conservative and who are not.
Unfortunately Indonesia has always been on the brink regarding this issue. Many Indonesian politicians have no qualm about using religion for their personal gains. I respect the current the president because most of the time, he is not resorting to this cheap and destructive tactic.
But Indonesia has always been one wrong move away from mixing politics and religion. This could spell the end of tolerance in Indonesia. This can be as early as when the next economic crisis hits. That was probably the trigger for the 1998 tragedy.
It is the risk that we should always take in our practical politics. We've decided to include religious consideration in our basic ideology. To me, there are elements in Indonesia's governmental bodies that are weak in the understanding of the ideology, incl. Polri and some political parties. Jokowi leadership apparently fails to handle this weakness, albeit some of its bold moves.
@@rapemap Jokowi's fails also an impact of previous president who failed to address this issue mostly during Bambang Yudhoyono where the radicals more powerful than ever after 911 wtc attacked
i still remember how the national religion minister swindle the hajj fund.
also it's racially motivated.
g30s > chinese=commie
98's financial crisis > chinese=rich
2018 church bombings > chinese=catholic
….I couldn’t agree more with this comment. (I made a similar one below, and received nothing but denials from Indonesians)….
Indonesia is on the brink of becoming an economic powerhouse-WHY would they ever want to follow the path of poverty & constant strife that EVERY Islamic country labors under? Can’t they see how successful Singapore is? (Or, how successful Turkey USED TO BE when it followed a secular path-and what has happened to it as it has descended more & more into fundamentalism)?….
@@Shineon83 haha.. do you know about the golden age of Islam?
Begini lah kalok sejarah dilupakan padahal Soekarno pernah bilang kalok jadi Islam jangan jadi orang Arab kalok jadi Hindu jangan jadi orang India tetap jadi Nusantara yang kaya raya ini
What kind of question is that? “Moderate” is just a facade. Minority can only build place of worship by getting the approval from “the local community.”
In some places, like Cilegon, churches are literally “forbidden” to be built.
What you see right now it’s just a tip of iceberg.
Aceh already apply their Sharia law which is very intolerant already towards non Muslims. That is the future Indonesia are heading.
@@amandawong5760hey got there after an armed conflict with the central government. Something called GAM should ring a bell so I don't think they represent anything at all and we are definitely not heading that way, not a chance. I think the central government just want to let them be and hopefully we can leave them alone, personally as a Muslim myself I never liked how they do their own thing or how they are allowed to do their own things like that but it is what it is for now.. I mean we don't need passports to move to any other islands in Indonesia anyway, many people also dont like how they run things in Aceh so just try to move out to any other island and you will be fine.
I guess you picked a minority areas as an example. A common mistake. Try checking the majority of Indonesian province and you will find that minority rights are also protected. I mean in Pontianak we just had our Christian Governor built a huge cathedral in the middle of the city and now its becoming one of our most beautiful land marks. In pontianak we also have a lot of Chinese districts too.
@@amandawong5760 yeah as an indonesian thi can confirm
True, the so called peacefulls r haters irl
As an Indonesian, I reject the behavior of extremist Muslims in their rejection of the U-20 World Cup event yesterday. Along with many moderate Muslims and people of other faiths, I oppose the establishment of an Islamic caliphate in Indonesia. Why? Because Indonesia's independence was not built solely on the struggle of Muslims, but also on the contributions of people from various religious backgrounds who participated in the nation's independence and development. Furthermore, one of Indonesia's national figures and former presidents, Abdurrahman Wahid, stated that building an Islamic state in Indonesia is not obligatory due to Indonesia's diversity, which includes various ethnicities, races, and belief systems such as Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and others. That is why I disagree with the establishment of an Islamic state system in Indonesia.
Tp non muslim juga menolak karna berdasarkan konsitusi... Ingat pengaruh mereka tidak besar tp konstitusi negara berpengaruh besar... Bahkan orang israel gak bisa masuk indonesia jika mereka masih pake paspor israel maka harus pake pasport negara ke 2
There is no such thing as moderate Islam. Read Bakra and Tauba in the Koran, which clearly prescribe miurder, rape and loot for kafirs. To be moderate you’d have to ignore those verses, but Islam prohibits the use of questioning or common sense
Indonesia was once Hindu and a great center of learning and scholarship. Under Islam, it will slowly but surely slide to the bottom to become another Afghanistan
It s not just Muslim who reject Israel.
we reject aggressor. those who we reject here are the biggest aggressor.
Gubernur bali si wayan koster seorang hindu menolaknya juga. Saya kecewa.
long live indonesian democracy,republic,and pancasila!!
Indognistan is coming soon, bye pancalsial
Seems like indonesian principles are dying
Thank you for covering this series
Even though almost 90% of Indonesian announce that Indonesia is a country of law, the fact is most of the law and social cultural favors mostly for the Islam group. Even having a minority ethnic and religion to rule as Jakarta's governor spark an immense conflict and announce 'guilty' by the court for blasphemy, even with an OBVIOUS fake proof.
I mean u had muslim majority then you could bet Muslim will win the politics,just like how most of president was Javanese...cause of course they're winning,Javanese was 40% of population what did u expecting at??
Thats how Democracy Run,majority always Ruled The nation Whatever bullsh it u tried talkin about.
Well, all I could say is that, Ahok's blasphemy accusation was a Jakarta problem and to tell you the truth most of the thing happened in Java like Jakarta does not happened anywhere else, there is this massive social gap between the capital and the rest of Indonesia. In Pontianak we also have a christian Dayak governor back in the days and he completed his terms just fine. He even built a massive cathedral in the middle of the city it is so big I can see it from my house. Its a very beautiful building.
Well although I did not agree with the fact that we have state laws that mostly favors Muslims since we are the majority but I must say I think the government can't do anything about that since we always need to prioritize the majority, its called a "Democracy". But because we are democracy the people should have a voice right? Well here.. Not exactly.. The government is too centralized, they are too focused on Java it almost as if the people of Java is the only people that they care about these days. This is why Sultan of Pontianak tried to rebel against Sukarno when he is trying to establish a federal republic rather than what we have now.. Let's just hope that the government can do something about this inequality but honestly, I doubt they can do anything at all.
Also one of these days, " Blasphemy " Accusation must die.. Really.. It was around late 2016 when Ahok was accused of Blasphemy and Its already 2023 now and here we are still accusing people of Blasphemy in a democratic country and back then they even tried to ruin two comedians career just because they said something about how the majority is privileged.
same with Malaysia. All the law and policies are all side with the islamic group when infact Malaysia is a secular country. Many of my fellow man declare Malaysia is an islamic state but we dont have shariah law but Constitiution law.
@@aldyhabibie9717 ahok did numerous amount of deeds that were contributive and i actually like him for that but, it's not that i hate him, he should've never said those things in the public
People twisted Ahok’s words to pull him down from a position of power. It was blatant political maneuvering and it couldn’t have been more obvious. I don’t know how people fell for that. He was easily one of the most competent governors we’ve ever had. Ridiculous.
You did a good thing when decline an extremist preacher entering your soil , these kind of preachers have so many followers in Indonesia. Saudi Arabia is heading to moderate and the extremist teaching and preachers must find new places outside Saudi. And SE Asia is a fertile soil for that.
Persis seperti itu penolakan indonesia... Kami menolak israel punya konsitusi negara bukan soal agama
There is no such thing as moderate Islam. Read Bakra and Tauba in the Koran, which clearly prescribe miurder, rape and loot for kafirs. To be moderate you’d have to ignore those verses, but Islam prohibits the use of questioning or common sense
Indonesia was once Hindu and a great center of learning and scholarship. Under Islam, it will slowly but surely slide to the bottom to become another Afghanistan
Actually I hope the reforms in Saudi Arabia will lessen the influence of radicals in Indonesia. Generally, Indonesian Muslims whether they’re devout or not, see Saudi Arabia as the center of Islamic faith and look at them as example.
Forcing ethnic Chinese to assimilate or face another riot of rape and murder does not a Bastion of Diversity make.
This is was in Soeharto era...
Thats why Soeharto is ousted... he is Military dictator installed by US
I remember that incident. Absolutely horrible.
Or democrat country as they claimed.
@Broski Snowski yes Ethnic Chinese immigrants as oppose to native Javanese. Who speaks Chinese dialects, eats pork and other Chinese food, and mostly Buddhists. Questions?
Nope. Todays Chinese in Indonesia don't want to speak Chinese, donnt want to have Chinese name, and don't practice Buddhism/Confucian/Taoism.
Indonesia's ancestors had formulated the basis of religious harmony and tolerance, namely Bhinneka Tunggal Ika, diversity, but one until now will continue to be our Indonesian nation's guideline in respecting religious differences where history has proven that the majority of Indonesians are Muslims, always respecting other religions and beliefs...
what abt respecting the non religious?? huh???
Buat yang pengen khilafah; kalian pergi ke antartika Dan bangun khilafah disana, Nusantara bukan milik Islam sendiri, tapi milik kita bersama.
Khilafah is decided democratically and he must be Muslim. So technically, the president of Indonesia is a khilafah.
Kamu aja yg pergi ke situ. Sok pinter
Setuju!
@@alexgibb8406 nah korang kayak lu harus pergi ke antartika ni.
Anda komunis
This open up my Understanding of Islam in Indonesia
Lol
Unfortunately, Islam is the problem. Afghanistan, which was once Hindu also (like Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia et al) produced scholars like the great Panini, circa 300 BCE
Now they produce what ???
Indonesians have a glorious heritage, but only Bali recognizes it
Itulah kenyataannya bro bukan direkayasa dimana ada islam pasti ada rahmatan lil kelamin.
I'm an Indonesian Muslim, but I don't want my country to be led by an Islamic figure who is too religious
Yes indeed. I just want indonesia become a 'Based' republic without any religious touch or at least just a moderate religious group. But ye know secular republic is even the thing that we need to achieve so that every indonesian can have the same right despite of their differences
@@kijangberburu5991 wont work out
I dont understand a Muslim who dont want to live in an Islamic state (with shari3ah). What ? You faith is very low and you want to do haram things? Stop following idea of thé shaitan or of your nafs !
@@Abdullah-in9dt stfu, we are a muslims that want to live in a state where everyone can live there regardless their background. No discrimination and everyone has the same rights in front of the goverment it self, and also some of us just want to live in a seculer state with a freedom of religious quarantee
@@Abdullah-in9dtwe don't want to arabiccc style lifestyles....maybe some old people want but definitely not us.....
Memang tidak bisa dipungkiri masuknya islam melalui perdagangan dan budaya, tapi tumbuh berkembang nya islam di negeri ini melalui politik dan peperangan bisa dilihat hancur nya era kerajaan oleh kesultanan
Iya anaknya Raja Majapahit saja berperang dengan Bapaknya.
Iya emang 100% melalui perdagangan, tapi 1000% melalui pedang
Gw dah tau itu,mknnya dlu sering mikir kmn hilangnya istana2 kerajaan semisal Majapahit,pasti ada penyerangan.n ya kita tau itu skrg meski di tutupi sedemikian rupa
@@wijayakusumah622 yup bisa diliat dari daerah atau suku yg budaya nya ga terlalu banyak udh pasti disitu mayoritas nya islam, karena menurutku islam mau dimanapun dia berada sudah pasti destruktif terhadap budaya lokal. perang padri aja yg embel embel ngusir penjajah ehh malah perang saudara trs parah nya malah pentolan pelaku genosida nya malah dijadiin pahlawan nasional (si bonjol) wkkwwk
Baca sejarah tukik, , semua hancur karena belanda si penganut bani kolor
@@candrakala7752 masih heran gw kenapa Imam Bonjol dimasukin di mata uang. Padahal, kalo Imam Bonjol hidup di tahun 1945 dia pasti bakal memusuhi Pancasila/NKRI.
Dia juga pasti menolak rupiah sebagai mata uang. Dia juga dengan paham Wahhabi nya pasti menolak mukanya digambarin di mata uang kertas.
Masih banyak pahlawan Sumatera Barat yang lebih berjasa bagi terbentuknya NKRI dibanding Imam Bonjol.
Short answer is no. Our moderate Muslim is not aggressive enough to counter fundamentalism, even they let them grow and its very frustrating.
Nah coz moderate and radical is same. Only after Jozeph Paul Zhang shout out how bad islam is, then moderate islam speak up now. 😅😅😅
The radical retards are too loud while the moderate ones are too much of a pussy to speak up against them
Kinda confusing that even the moderate muslims became fundamentalist muslims just because "let me remind you brothers, it's in our religion"
@@Cyan_NightingaleRight, many people thinking that they already moderat but still want to "dictate" others what they have to do based on religious argumentation.
Gimana mau ngelawan kalau gerak dikit langsung diteriakin "kafir" sama mereka
Indonesia is increasingly uncomfortable with the issue of tolerance...we as a minority are always under pressure and afraid to practice our religion
Sana tinggal di Amerika atau Eropa...Indonesia g butuh manusia risih
@@ylir1959 lu aja yg pergi ke afganistan. mungkin mereka butuh anggota taliban tambahan buat lawan sodara nya sendiri di iran
you re not indonesian. indonesia is the most tolerate country because we have thousand of culture and we can live together, and islam teach us to respect every human being. we stands against imperialism
@@aufararsyi3399 klo masih minta uang ortu g usah sok keras ...entar nangis g di kasih duit ..urus sekolah mu g usah urus media Amerika...biar g jadi Londo blangko alias KENIL
@@aufararsyi3399 pamer foto ijasah tp IQ jongkok...masa depan suram bangsa ini klo di isi mahluk astral seperti mu...
Mereka semua ini orang² penghambat kemajuan, orang² primitive dan maniak agama.
benar sekali. dan mereka pula yang ciptakan sesat
Ya mereka ada memang memiliki tujuan agar indonesia tidak bisa maju... buktinya kelompok mereka aja gak ada yang bisa bersaing baik dari segi pendidikan, ekonomi, apalagi teknologi... yang ada cuma doa doa doa udah itu aja, bulsit lah yang bilang indonesia bisa maju kalo ikuti keinginan mereka
Maju celana dalamnya aja
@@sarwonotama7875 bagi mereka duniawi tak berguna.. Yg berguna adalah akhirat. Suruh mereka bunuh diri biar cepat Ke akhirat. Lgian didunia ga ada gunanya ... 🤣 ... Pikiran mereka sempit
Lets deport yaman immigrant decendant from indonesia, not all but the one who always makes trouble. And the one who never respect indegenous indonesian
@Putih Hitam Hhahaha itulah mereka pemabuk agama.... gimana org mau respect sama muslim ?
When I heard from Pak Mulya Lubis in the last of this video that NAHDLATUL ULAMA and MUHAMMADIYAH should win the Nobel Peace Prize, it makes me very happy. As a Indonesian, they both really deserve it. Both these Islam Organizations are help to strong their voice for moderate Islam and tolerance towards other to secure Unity in Diversity in Indonesia through multiple difficult times since independence. They are really the maker of what looks like the character of Indonesian society today.
Huh, their missions are only applied to one group of religion!!! you want them to win the Nobel peace prize? They should protect the minorities, be the champion of diversity, call for the abolishment of joint injunction on the establishment of house of worship/church/temple.
But why is MUI so extreme and radical abd intolerant although 95% of them are from NU? I would say MUI is just a face of NU. 1 coin, 2 face.
But they wont because nobel is biased.
@@aegyo9272 Because MUI isnt actually representative of both groups. Even Muhammadiyah and NU have more conservative wing.
@@aegyo9272 You shouldn't label anything you disagree with as being radical or intolerant.
Surprised this doesnt have more views!
39 mimt
It’s just got released less than an hours bro
The answer is Yes. Mostly. Most Muslims in Indonesia is a moderate. However, a growing extremist is happening especially towards an election that has 2 different religion on stand. People with caliphate view doesn't really stand up for now.
What extremist?? Are u live in indonesia bro??
@@semiftahxx6610 yeah i live indonesia. and my home quite close to those people who called fpi. they are very radical and toxic. i think they consist of only 3-5% indonesia population but those 5% mean 15million.
Those Radicals are very small in numbers, but possibly can takeover the country and threaten EVERYONE including the Moderates who are the majority
I used to live in Indonesia and until around mid 1990s, then, hardly anyone wore hijab in the city where I lived. Recently, I visited the same city, and almost everyone wears hijab. It definitely feels different, and there is always be a debate whether Indonesia is still moderate or not. Many people argue that Malaysia is more "conservative", but I don't think this is the case. Malaysia is more "conservative" if you look from the outside, but when it comes to mindset / mentality, Indonesian people (whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims), generally, they tend to be more "conservative" (if you know what I mean).
True.
We are a highly superstitious society that loves cults such as "fake" Muhammad's Descendants, shamans, and prominent politicians' or Religion preachers descendants.
I know what you means 😂 , Muslim Malaysia like Muslim in Sumatra (Aceh/Minang Kabau) etc
There are two main reasons why Indonesia in 90s more secular compare to current era :
1. Suharto fallen
2. Internet ; share how bad israeli soldiers treat palestinian children and woman
There's no hijab enforcement, everyone just wore them naturally, you can see a lot of hijabless women in tv show in Indonesia. And usually around election time every hijabless women candidate are suddenly wearing hijab 😂
If CNA is using the rejection of Israel's participation in the Junior Football World Cup as a recurring theme throughout their documentary to suggest that Indonesia is becoming an extremist nation, then CNA is completely missing the mark.
put down the camel urine abdool
CNA isn't using the stripping of indonesia's host rights, as a tool to paint it as an extremist nation. It is rather telling about the increased politicisation of Islam, increasing conservatism , radicalism and intolerance in the society which are a perfect mix for democratic backsliding, compromised secularism, religious instability and the decline of Indonesian values. CNA did suggest that the increased conservatism might be the reason for such big protests against israeli participation in the games and the stance of the government on the issue do show the mixing of sports and religious politics. But, that was hardly the intent of this documentary.
Also, not allowing Israeli players in the games doesn't do any good to the palestinians either. It is just a show off similar to what the West do.
Biasa media singapork
The rejection of Israel's participation in Indonesia's U20 competition is not due to Islam; rather, it is based on concerns regarding human rights. One does not need to be a Muslim to empathize with Palestine. Even the governor that rejected to host Israel was Bali's Hindu governer. The same principle applies when Indonesia extended an invitation to Ukraine to speak at the G20 summit in Bali. Essentially, we advocate for human rights, whether it is in the case of Palestine or Ukraine.
😂
Yeah it's just the Israel backed media crying and trying to frame islam here that's all
It is about Islam, stop lying,that is the reason why your country is always at a brink of chaos cos you refuse to accept the truth.
Palestine doesn't want peace. Ever. They've been offered it.
Yes it was due hindu, christianity and Buddhism. They reject israel 😂
Bangga sama pemimpin negara dan pemimpin agama di negara ini yang masih ada spirit Nasionalisnya. Semoga semesta menjaga kita semua. FREEDOM to believe what you want to believe.
it is! tapi UUD 45 mewajibkan semua masyarakat indonesia itu untuk beragama. apapun agamanya yang diakui. terkecuali tidak percaya akan Tuhan. bahkan ada hukum yang mengatur terkait hal tsb. jadi, freedom to believe whay you want to believe jangan sampai disalah interpretasikan. karena Indonesia adalah negara yang beragama, sesuai dengan sila pertama Pancasila. 👍
I hope Indonesia still keep Pancasila and Bhinneka Tunggal Ika forever. Yuk bisa yuks tetap NKRI
In my opinion, Indonesian political parties also have a role in exploiting the emotions of Muslims in the wrong way and finally our society is easily fooled by their words which have hidden meanings
Kkkk... Anda baca UUD 1945 dan permenlu no.3 tahun 2019 yang di terbitkan jaman pak jokowi... Ini bukan soal atau tentang islam tapi soal KONSTITUSI
Hmm
People still think it's a regular religion. It's foundations are very political. As much as it tries to be secular, the looming threats of fundamentalist will always be there till consumes the nation.
Unfortunately, Islam is the problem. Afghanistan, which was once Hindu also (like Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia et al) produced scholars like the great Panini, circa 300 BCE
Now they produce what ???
Indonesians have a glorious heritage, but only Bali recognizes it
Jawaban singkatnya, "Tidak". Indonesia masih dipenuhi oleh orang-orang rasis, terutama dari generasi yang sudah tua, yang menganggap segala sesuatu di luar keyakinan dan kepercayaan mereka mutlak salah.
Mohon maaf kak, ada beberapa hal di dunia ini yg dijadikan sekenario menggiurkan atas "kesempatan" tapi sebenarnya ada kepentingan sendiri di belakangnya
@Reno Sama juga di Malaysia. Sekarang negara kita hampir hancur juga, tapi mungkin masih ada harapan jikalau yang extremis pas+umno masih tidak dapat memerintah. Harap dunia masing-masing jangan jadi peperangan lagi. Kalau jadi peperangan religion, ikutnya fascisme dan genocide, Singapura pun dalam kebahayaan, salah-salah Asia Tenggara jadi macam di Levant Iraq dan Syria 2010-2014~ yang banyak di genocida hanya kerana religion. Bukanlah tak bisah religion, tapi jangan religion sampai genocida kaum dan budaya orang lain dan lain-lain.
Lol tereak2 rasis kyk blm aja di amerika..
Di sini malah si "korban rasisme" yg punya istilah2 rasis buat org lain spt kadrun, tiko, dsb😂
@@keenanz9882 cok lu Kafir
@@keenanz9882 banyak kok kata" selain itu.
ada kris10, Thn kok patung, Thn kok 3, kafir, Thn mati, jasjus, dsb.
Apalagi pembangunan tempat Ibadah non-muslim susah skli ngurusnya, belum juga protest dri mayoritas.
Dan skrng politik di tahun" Ini udh di campur ama Agama, jdi lebih parah.
I had a layover in Indonesia and I didn't knew Indonesia is a Muslim nation, I honestly thought I landed in some Arab country with east Asian looks of people. It was a funny experience 😂
😂😂... that is bizarre
Unfortunately, Islam is the problem. Afghanistan, which was once Hindu also (like Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia et al) produced scholars like the great Panini, circa 300 BCE
Now they produce what ???
Indonesians have a glorious heritage, but only Bali recognizes it
@@AB-vx4hkIndian 😊😮😊
@@zenith8972😂
@@aryanhassan4659 he is indian bro
That extremist just need to go outside and meet more people.
Just go to top university that own by government ask muslim student there, no one want Indonesia became islamic state 😂
What is Islamic state? I guarantee you, you don't even know that.
@@FS-me8mj you explain first, since you're so smart judge me not knowing about that based on my comment
@@cumamelihat1592 Why would you ask me? I clearly know my stuff. I am asking you to prove that you have the knowledge. If you couldn't care less, you can just ignore my comment lol.
@@FS-me8mj sounds like someone who dont know their stuff :v
@@cumamelihat1592 I am not here to prove anything buddy, I just asked you for the definition. No need to drag it.
Selalu pola² yg saya lihat mereka yang keturunan arab yang merusak, sprti NU mayoritas orang jawa jd mereka menentang kalipah tp mereka yg keturunan arab sangat mengagumi contoh saja orang arab FPI di video ini.
Bener juga....
Ah masa sok tau lo bro,Indonesia negara demokrasi bro kalau adanya demo berarti udah dapet ijin dari polisi gimana si bro,sebelum demo perlu ijin dulu dari polisi gak bisa seenaknya demo begitu aja ...?
@@user-hh5sw3sp6i eeehh.. I have to tell you something.
@@user-hh5sw3sp6i Gak usa ijin bsa demo, mangkanya aturan baru kemaren jg mengenai demo, kali ini hrs punya ijin.
Blood is thicker than water.
The problem is the media. Because the media gave them a stage. In fact, there are more moderate Muslims in Indonesia, but the media always favors Islamic extremist news so they get sympathy 😢
example? you define normal every day muslims as extremists.
The Indoneian government has become a discriminatory Islamic state,because there is a law against blasphemy,especially many Christian religious leaders went to prison.
Orang islam juga masuk penjara jika menendang sesaji umat hindu...
@@dutasatu1 why specifically the hindus?
@@airplanedude3103 tidak ada yang di spesial kan... Tp semua agama di lindungi oleh negara... Siapa saja yang merendahkan agama lain akan dapat hukuman sesuai hukum yang berlaku
@@dutasatu1 Oh ok👍🏽. I thought something was going on with the Hindus in Indonesia.
@@airplanedude3103 It s the easiest example, as Bali is popular destination with mostly Hindus people, we r more familiar with Bali Hindus than Christian, Catholic, or Buddhist.
Edit: ah when i said more familiar i didnt mean to disrespect other religion aside from Bali Hindus.
Even if i pray 5 times a day, pay my zakat and do my ramadan fasting, im still not muslim enough for some of these people, theres always something not enough like whyd9nt you d9 your sunat prayer?, why dont you zikir often? Why arent you visiting the mosque ? Why dont you read the quran?😅
Unfortunately, Islam is the problem. Afghanistan, which was once Hindu also (like Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia et al) produced scholars like the great Panini, circa 300 BCE
Now they produce what ???
Indonesians have a glorious heritage, but only Bali recognizes it
@@AB-vx4hk that's kinda true. After islam took over, no scholars came from these countries.
Actually Indonesians look more conservative on the surface.
If you dive deeper, you might be surprised that you’ll still find many women here, either hijab-wearing or not, especially those aged between 18-30, doing something *unheard of in most other Muslim countries* such as drinking alcohol or having premarital sex.
I’ve encountered numerous Muslim girls who wear hijab almost daily, study in the university or are employed in the formal workforce, and praying pretty regularly, *who had 1, 2, or even 5 body counts* and they’re not even married.
Sometimes they didn’t do that with their boyfriends but sometimes just friends with benefits or even simple hookups. Sure, there are lots of religiously conservative minded-people in Indonesia, but a lot of them are just appearance on the surface. You can’t judge from afar or from the coverage, who are truly conservative and who are not.
Hell yeah
Sad, but I don’t believe that “democracy” and “religious tolerance” can coexist in an Islamic country today. The crazies will always rise to the top
I can only hope you are wrong.
Bodoh nya kau
Difficult but possible. Iran came close but then a certain superpower came in and funded a dictatorship because the elected leaders were getting too cozy with communists. Turkey is pretty close. And unless you’re choosing a vocal minority to represent the entire population, Indonesia is literally what you’re describing. Open democracy with religious tolerance. These Islamist groups are very unpopular here-even religious people scoff at them. How loud vocal minorities are often distort the image and make it seem like they represent more than they actually do. You’ll have bad apples and extremism no matter what though. The government simply needs to take a hardline stance.
Islam is a universalist ideology, and you have to draw the line somewhere.
True. Only dictatorship could crush these extrimist. As lomg as you live in democracy there will always someone who is going to yell "caliphate and sharia law".
Nope. It's possible. And Indonesia can prove it.
As Indonesian , i feel my country may take a shape of modern republic but ruling like an ancient feudal
It has been that way since 9 years under absolute rule of Sukarno and 32 years under Suharto. They all acted like a king / absolute ruler.
Sampai sekarang saya masih ga paham. Pembela islam itu apa sih yang di bela?
Hak tuhan? Hak orang islam? Atau apa? Kurang privilege apa sih orang islam di Indonesia?
Karena tuhannya emg lemah ,pantas dibela
@@fernia5565 malaysia ada juga tapi lebih kuat
Gak ada istilah kata pembela agama... yang ada hanyalah pembela kepentingan politik
Apa gunanya bela agama kalau ujung2nya meraih kekuasaan?
Namanya juga extremist Islam, orang2 kaya gitu mau nya buat indonesia jadi khalifah, padahal itu menghancurkan Indonesia seperti Afghanistan Taliban😢
@@Aloha_aloha_nah ini bagus ni, ayo pecah yuk, 1000% gua dukung, kami punya sejarah NII.
basically the rejection toward Israel has nothing to do with religion, cause if Israel came to Indonesia it would be contrary to our Constitution as follows "That in fact independence is the right of all nations, by the colonialists on top of the world it must be abolished because it does not accordance with the pri humanity and pri justice". and as long as Israel still colonizes Palestine, we will continue to refuse.
I'm tired of these zionists companies who keep inforcing that the occupation in Palestine is tied with religion...
What about Russia then?
@@chuuninoob5366it only applies to palestine, not Ukrainian. I doubt they even know the long history of israel-palestine.
papua??
"That in fact independence is the right of all nations." Words... all bullshit. Papua? Aceh? No, we don't care about the right of independence, we just want to appear so.
7:33 the part of the Jakarta Charter that required Muslims to abide by Shariah law was eventually deleted from the constitution after the Indonesian declaration of independence on 18 August 1945.
It was very disturbing to watch this documentary. I had frequently visited Indonesia in 2006 and 2007. Rise of radical/Conservative islam is very dangerous. Indonesia may be going Pakistan way. You cant have 7th century laws in 21st century. I hope indonesian government will do something to prevent rise of radical Islam.
Says an indian 😂 your government don't even ban radical hindutva groups, why would they? They are themselves radicak
Says a hindooo..... Dalits crying in the corner..Mr upper caste Punjabii
Its the beginning. More and more radical islamist will emerge and start opposing development, teaching science, women empowerment etc. It will affect Indonesia's development.
Cry more hindu
@@johanliebert3943 why would hindus cry?
Muslim countries are more developed than India
@@rooptera cuz they hate islam and keep seething in every videos comment section that is slighly related to islam
@@rooptera i can see two of them crying right now lol
Indonesia talking about Palestine while they occupy west papa guinea
What is Papa Guinea😂
Papua is part of Indonesia, not an occupation.
And Indonesia did not commit genocide or destroy like Israel did. learn more deeply before making "slanted" comments.
There are indeed Islamic extremists in Indonesia, but they are a minority. It's just that they're very vocal, so it seems like there are many of them.
….Your “minority’ consists of tens of millions of extremists (that’s a LOT of hate).….
Unfortunately, due to past terrorist attacks, Indonesia has gained an international reputation of being a country of religious extremists.…Tourists are staying away.
I do not believe that a predominately Muslim country can be a democracy today…The crazies will always take over
@@Shineon83 fake news. Foreign tourists in Indonesia increasing every year. It's not as huge as Thailand, because Indonesia don't sell 's3x tourism'
@@Shineon83 Please speak by data. The data states the increase of foreign tourists in Indonesia every year (not include the COVID-19 year of course)
@@Recusant_ ….Iran doesn’t need to become “secular” - just back to the way it was for so many decades (when the population was largely Muslim, but where other religions were allowed, and didn’t need to fear being bombed during their services)….
I actually love Iran (Persia) and its rich history and people….I have several Iranian/Persian friends from university-and we worry all the time about their families…:What the barbaric & cruel “religious” leaders have been doing to them (and other Muslim countries) lately is an outrage to their faith ….
short answer: no, Islam in Indonesia more and more become radical and hardline like middle east, and Indonesian people proud of it. they dump their own culture just to be considered as religious and pious by replace their culture with arabian culture.
long answer: there's still a hope, because the harder they radicalized Islam in Indonesia, the more people aware that their own culture is better than middle eastern cultures in ther environmental setting, it provide much more tolerance and peace than using hardline purist Islam.
every now and then there's church and temple burning by Islamist movement in Indonesia, they massively "invade" non-islam majority province to make the whole province ruled by islam majority, the good case is Bali, not long ago, ministry of tourism want to sell Sharia based travel in Bali despite Bali is still Hindu Majority, they want to change Balinese tourism regulations to fit any Islamic values and Muslim tourist. they want to build more mosque and bring more Muslim to start this plan, meanwhile the permit to build temple and church in Indonesia in general is harder than to make Russia and Ukraine make a peace.
and on that FIFA event in Indonesia, there's no firm and clear stand point from moderate Muslims that say they are against or not support that rejection of Israel that end up Indonesia got sanction from FIFA, they just going silent and accept what hardline Islam said. is exactly like 6:46 , they reject to acknowledge the danger and growing radicalist islam, and hiding in their constitution that still said Indonesia is tolerant, in practice there's only few people that still follow the constitution, even the one that publicly said that Indonesia is Islamic country and people outside islam must be killed and burn, never been arrested and punished
I am Christian Indonesian, but my extended family mostly Islam. that's why I know exactly what happen, back then there's no gap between people with different beliefs, but now even my own family won't give greetings when Christmas and easter come, but they keep demanded that we must greet them and respect them when ramadhan can idl fitr came, even in my own family circle non-muslim get shunned.
Thanks for speaking up, bro
It's true about what you said, but quantity speaks louder than truth.
Let's just hope and pray the best for Indonesia, and someday we will live in a true harmony with other believers
@@axelmorrison183 ya musnah juga gapapa...pada akhirnya manusia juga mati, hidup di Indonesia udah biasa denger ancaman kayak anda dan emang udah konsekuensi.
Silahkan saja menjalani apa yg kamu percayai, kalian tidak akan sadar indahnya persatuan dan kebudayaan sendiri kalau belum di titik nadir, membuang jati diri sendiri lebih gemar menggandrungi kekacauan dari negeri wan abud
@@chvhndrtntlr3482 persatuan? Persatuan untuk menyingkirkan orang lain maksud anda... Ajaran setan kek kalian itu hanya menunggu waktu agar semua orang sadar apa sebenarnya wujud asli kalian, dan ketika saat itu tiba bersiaplah utk musnah dr negara ini... Gw sih termasuk org yg tersadarkan lebih dulu jadi sudah muak dengan propaganda kemunafikan cinta kasih prett kalian itu
@@axelmorrison183 Sikap Elu membuat Reputasi Religi Elu Semakin Baik ?
Elu malahan membuat
agama elu terlihat sebuah sekte aja
Elu cuma Manusia yang God Complex aja
@@shanicestella2226 prettt
Diversity in Indonesia is currently very sad.
no more tolerance.
even if there are very few.
may be destruction before the eyes.
Go touch grass
@@lyq232 I don't want to touch the grass.
I want to hold a grenade
@@randyalexander393 ouch, the edge
True, their problem is not secular Islam like Turkey. Islam in Indonesia is like Afghanistan.
@@nolimitcityid not all Islam is evil, it's only some people for the sake of interest.
in all religions also have crimes depending on the human being.
I am Indonesian, I know very well that many Indonesians are disappointed with this decision, but you need to remember that the reason Indonesia rejects Israel is not because of intolerance
but as an act of protest against Israel's atrocities against Palestine
Don't talk about tolerance with us because we know better that even before Indonesia existed, we lived in harmony despite our different religions and cultures
Harmony?? Di indon aja gereja kalian bakar ,umat kristian mahu natalan dihalang..harmony nenek kamu!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@mattog9444 what do you think
The population of Muslims in Indonesia is 237.55 million, the largest in the world
but we have 29.01 million christians
Hindus 4.67 million
buddha 2.03 million
Protestants 20.5 million
I dare to speak Indonesia the most tolerant country in the world
the biggest evidence where a Christian can become a governor in the middle of a sea of Muslims
if there is something similar, show which country it is even America is a country that claims to be the most democratic but it is not possible for a Muslim to become governor
Completely legitimate my friend I do support the creation of Palestinians or atleat stand up for their human rights but do you reject China because it abuse Muslims,Myanmar because it also persecute Muslims,my country India because it persecute Muslims or Russia or Afghanistan or Egypt or Central Asian republics they also give Muslims a hard time or different problems in Africa..probably not because these countries are not associated to asserting Political Islam, So while I know Israel is an abnormal state Muslims and it should be dealt with I think it is more often used as politicians as a tool to reinforce the pan Islamic identity and show the authority you should consider Islamist above everything before you take decisions and policies
Why is Indonesia concerned with what happens in the middle East? Are Indonesians s-laves of the Arabs?
You live trillion of miles away from this region, Why would you care about this local conflict? why don't you care about the real atrocities being done right next to you to the Rohingya in Burma and the Uyghurs in China? Why don't you care about the massacre against the Kurds minority in Turkey or the persecution of Christians all over the middle east?
Brainwashed...
There is no such country so called Israel... Thanks Indonesia and Indonesian from Malaysia
Israel is country radical extremist muslim are problem everywhere
Indonesia is most beautiful country in the world and it also rising regional power.....
Love from Bangladesh✌️
It's always a live issue in Indonesia as moslem majority country. As a moderate moslem i respect the hardliner and secular opinion in their spirit of rahmatan lil alamin (to do good for others).
But as a country, there's Rule of Law,
There's no tolerance for violence and crime. But then again rule of law could be bent by politics, and irresponsible politics adhere to majority of votes
if you are a muslim then you should not that islam has a answer for everything. the moment people try to play around it and call it ''Moderate Islam '' then the nation is doomed
@@Userdoesnotexit you know nothing about how the culture here look like.
Why respect hardliner, they don't deserve that. Conservative is fine, but once it come across the attitude to other, no thank you. I don't even know how the do good to other, if you are saying hardliner, isn't that just mean themself and everyone who believe their belief.
@@gimmick206 Aside of their loud and violent tendency which emphasized on the media.
They do feed the poor, help collecting medication bills, and run social programs (which might not be documented on socmed).
I disagree of most their view, but i wouldnt discount the effort they put on social aid
@@AhmadHusain_id political islam is such heresy in Islamic Law, the Sahabah Ummayah spread islam literally by providing for the non-muslims and established Libraries and place of knoweldge
U visited indonesia last December and to me were most welcoming people.
What you don't see in this video is respect between religions there.
Nobody offend you there and they are most welcoming people❤
Reminder to Indonesians, Lsrael built Singapore's military. So don't throw your own country under the bus just because a Singaporean news accused your fellow people of being "extremists". Side with your fellow Indonesians!
Noted. I know that Singaporeans naturally dislike Indonesia
Yes we know and in the past their air force often violated indonesian airspace but not anymore coz indonesia military now is more powerful..
Thank you Singapore for reporting this!
it's not about Islamist extremism. it's about being 'true' to our constitution: fighting against colonization and oppression. what's the meaning of economic gains against our core values
how is palestine a colony of israel when palestine has it own government and a observer status in the UN??? Indonesia mixed sports and religious politics and lost its hosting rights. I am asking you what good will it do to palestisians?? it is just symbolic and symbolism is waste because that is not going to stop crackdown on palestinains. Also, sporting event are not a place to advocate for human rights. I have seen people defending qatar despite documented cases of several human rights violations. If Qatar's abuses can be overlooked, why can't Israel's be???
@@AnkitKumar-sn8hq then why did FIFA allow the promotion of those One Love (LGBT+) thing if sport event isnt the place for promoting human rights? u see the problem? yes, hypocrisy.
What are you talking about Jews are the inhabitants of Jerusalem. If dutchs would have expelled indonesian for 1000 of years then it won't make them indonesians and indonesians will still have right to live there
like in guinea? who is the colonizer there?
@@Pmooliwhat are tou talking about?
Papua is part of Indonesia, it has not been colonized. And Indonesia did not commit genocide or destruction like Israel did. learn more deeply before making "slanted" comments.
I am an Indonesian citizen. In my opinion, the issue of football or the issue of Islamic terror is a normal thing, and not as bad as it bothers...
I am Muslim of Chinese descent, and part of my family is non-Muslim, they respond to this issue normally
and my family who are Christians, and Buddhist are not affected by anything about this problem, we just live normally...
if someone is unemployed it might be different, because they don't have a job yet so they are looking for topics to discuss...
well, there are indeed conservative Muslims here, but there are also many Christians or other religions that have hard conservative followers...
The difference is that in Indonesia the number of Muslim population is more, so the upheaval in the Muslim community is more visible, even though there are also many from people of other religions...
if you don't want to follow, just ignore it, be disturbed, just go viral, make a scene and become a national sensation...
As someone that don't deal with those kind of issues, i think it's absolutely not normal.
I can't imagine football or extremist assault happening in my country, i would've think there's something seriously wrong in the society.
@@akane8615 you know what's wrong? it's the lack of men. the Issue with football extremism is simply that the fans think that they are "macho" for starting a fight, these lack of glory and seek for self glory made brawls and "tauran" to be prevalent among young boys and adult males.... it's just plain stupidity and materialism
Unfortunately, Islam is the problem. Afghanistan, which was once Hindu also (like Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia et al) produced scholars like the great Panini, circa 300 BCE
Now they produce what ???
Indonesians have a glorious heritage, but only Bali recognizes it
@@AB-vx4hk Bali's governer is a hindu and he was THE FIRST one who rejected Israel participation in the U-20 World Cup. So, do you think it's a religion problem? Indonesia simply don't recognize Israel as a country and it is stated in our constitution, that's it. Whether you're christian, muslim, hindu, buddhist, if you're Indonesian, you have to understand that Israel won't be welcomed in this country. But it doesn't mean, they can't come here. Few Israelis have come here, but they have to use different passport
People live normally unless they are the ones being attacked. That's the universal rule
Happy to know that FIFA did the right thing.
By allowing israel be participant but banned russia in their event?? 🤡
Good for Indonesia, they have the right to reject Israel.
May Allah bless Indonesia. 🇮🇩💖
Ollah already blessed pakistan and afganistan
@@kanishkkumar5431 yeah they eat cow (your God) every day.
@@kanishkkumar5431 But why didn't Ram bless his wife with safety when she was pregnant?
@@Multigia ram blesses his wife and bharat that's why we r growing economy. ...
Why muslim countries r in crises. ..why pakistanis r begging. ...that means theur us no ollah....
@@kanishkkumar5431 "Ram is not even able to be called as good Human."
~Dr. Ambedkar (Riddle of Ram)
building a house of worship is so hard in Indonesia that some people resorted to rent rooms in shopping malls just to have a place of worship.
Indonesia unity in diversity. Some make controversion, blashpemy and playing victim, but government can control.
What ever the western narration is, we still say "no to Israel". This is about human right.
ikr, this was never about religion, Indonesia being an ex-colony of both Dutch, Portugese, Japan, and Brithish atrocities we can see a colony for what it is,
Regarding human rights, what about the years of Yemen being bombed by Saudi Arabia?
Why u dont see human rights of people of Cyprus under attack by Turkey
@@kicunghartono1 That's also need to be shout out.
@@Urbanhunter49 Ask that to Britain. They sow the seed.
You don't need to be a Muslim to reject Israeli colonization, it is enough to be a good Indonesian citizen because opposing colonization is the spirit of Indonesian independence. Just like how we don't need to be Ukrainian, European, or white to oppose Russia's aggression against Ukraine. What makes this issue complicated is that there are some of us humans who can remain silent and turn a blind eye to Israel's attacks in Palestine, but are critical and opposed to Russia's attacks in Ukraine. It's not surprising that one of the predictions of the apocalypse is a robot uprising, not because the robots themselves are problematic, but because humans are the source of the problem.
Tapi kenyataannya banyak pemuja putin yg pro penjajah
Most Indonesian muslims think it’s ok for Russia to invade Ukraine since Zelensky is a Jew.
Well to be fair iran/eastern country is not so call muslim back then. they're persian and have own culture
Ask ur frnd Turkey to give up Cyprus thn
Just be real, Palestinians doesn't have a country to begin with
Tujuan hidup saya tidak muluk-muluk.menghabiskan masa tua di tanah kelahiran dengan tenang sambil melihat anak cucu tumbuh dewasa.bukan tidak peduli dgn issue tersebut,tp saya sudah bosan dgn semua itu
Why does the toothless novel become a source, his brain capacity is small
….I wonder if Indonesian leaders realize how much tourism they have lost through this intolerance? ( Iwould love to visit again-but as a Christian, I would be too afraid)….
Indonesia is safe bro. Especially for tourist,it's still much safer than USA with their gun violence.
you can go into middle-eastern part of Indonesia. those kind of problem usually happened in Java island (and don't worry, i don't think that those guys will mess with foreigners 😅)
simply dont come wtf
It has nothing to do with non-muslim foreign tourists... What are you afraid of?
Woah, let’s not act like Indonesia is Iran. Its a secular country, not even a Muslim country. Its Muslim majority. Unless you’re going to Aceh you’ll be more than fine. Jakarta and all the big cities are very liberal.
If Indonesia becomes an Islamic republic, the non-muslim majority regions will declare independence, an Islamic republic means apartheid status.
No man...90% muslim ...if there is problem they get help from all islamic nations 😐
@@major2707 in the eastern regions, the non-muslims outnumber the muslims, they will not want to live under an Islamic state/republic.
The recent SEA Games will show which countries are more moderate and which are less so. Just see how their female athletes are dressed.
I've seen Indonesian female footballers, they're close to become the liberals.
Isu isu agama di Indonesia adalah sesuatu yang di bangun dan di rencanakan dengan baik dan teliti. Buktinya sebelum tahun 2014 belum banyak isu isu agama seperti toleransi dan radikalisme, memang tidak bisa di pungkiri bahwa ada beberapa kelompok yang radikal dan tidak toleran. Tapi itu hanya sebagian dan sangat kecil. Dan setelah itu boom seperti ledakan berita masalah toleran dan radikal di angkat dan masyarakat menjadi terpecah, sedangkan pemerintah seperti tutup mulut dan telinga tidak mau merangkul dan mendamaikan. Semoga isu isu toleran ini cepat berlalu dengan di ganti nya pemimpin yang lebih adil dan mau memikirkan masalah rakyat secara adil dan tidak memihak. Aamiin
Kata siapa, luu ?
Pemerintah, atau organisasi sebesar NU mengkaji suatu masalah bukan asal jeplak asal bicara, hasil kajian itu didapat dgn berbagai macam instrumen yg akhirnya Jadi satu dokumen...kajian.
Kesimpulannya Intolerant meningkat di Indonesia dan tragisnya dikalangan menengah Indonesia yg intoleran melonjak dri beberapa dekade sebelumnya
Indonesia should embrace Panchasila culture as their core value.
we do
@@aderahmat197 YEAH :
Kemudian dari pada itu untuk membentuk suatu Pemerintah Negara Indonesia Merdeka yang melindungi segenap bangsa Indonesia dan seluruh tumpah darah Indonesia, dan untuk memajukan kesejahteraan umum, mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa, dan ikut melaksanakan ketertiban dunia yang berdasarkan kemerdekaan, perdamaian abadi, dan keadilan sosial, maka disusunlah kemerdekaan kebangsaan Indonesia itu dalam suatu Hukum Dasar Negara Indonesia, yang terbentuk dalam suatu susunan Negara Republik Indonesia, yang berkedaulatan rakyat, dengan berdasar kepada: *ketuhanan, dengan kewajiban menjalankan syari’at Islam bagi pemeluk-pemeluknya*, menurut dasar kemanusiaan yang adil dan beradab, persatuan Indonesia, dan kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh hikmat kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan perwakilan, serta dengan mewujudkan suatu keadilan sosial bagi seluruh rakyat Indonesia.
@@FitraRahim
Pancasila bukan hanya untuk penganut agama Islam. Tidak bisa mentafsirkan Pancasila berdasarkan sudut agama Islam belaka.
Panchashila in Sanskrit means the 5 meritorious values each human needs to follow. Unfortunately, Islam is the problem. Afghanistan, which was once Hindu also (like Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia et al) produced scholars like the great Panini, circa 300 BCE
Now they produce what ???
Indonesians have a glorious heritage, but only Bali recognizes it
Kami hanya mengikuti konstitusi, dan itu juga pesan dari presiden pertama kami,,,, sampai kapanpun Indonesia tidak akan mengakui zionis israel
😂😂😂
Let’s remember three quarters of humanity ain’t Muslim nor any great state. Even the Saudis figured out to prosper is to be moderate, giving women the right to work, and to embrace the world. How on earth the idea of caliphate and Islamic law can help Indonesia to be welcomed by the rest of the world?
Saudi are on the right track.
It is interesting that you mentioned about the Israel team rejection in the Football World cup U-22 at the beginning of the video as if the protest only comes from the Islamist. In fact the nationalist also reject the Israel team coming to Indonesia. This is perhaps a unique situation where right wing of Islamist and Nationalist actually do have common ground even though there are always tensions between them.
And there is more funny thing to this case where moderate Islamist blame the nationalist right wing for World Cup cancellation, AND the moderate nationalist ALSO blame the nationalist right wing.
But I don't think the right wing nationalist intentionally took all the blame and try to cover the Islamist right wing (It would be more hilarious if it does tho). My point is that the Islamist right wingers do not get criticism at all by Indonesian public, and I think it is perceived differently by the people overseas...
The extremist,in this case FPI/pa 212 who reject Israel is just looking for stage. I find it funny actually 🤣. Did you know that pa 212 also reject Coldplay concert. But they didn't reject blackpink concert. They are basically hypocrite.
I disagree with Israel rejection though. I think it's stupid just because Palestine supported us in independence last time. Time has changed. As much as history is important,we have to adapt and move on when necessary.
That's why many people are saying,other countries are already into space exploration while Indonesian still focussed on building religious building and tolerance.
@@jefri4176 I somewhat agree and disagree to your opinion. I agree on your opinion on PA212. It is election season and they need to show off that they still have power with harassing anything they could harass so their donors would notice them once again. They are already losing so much, and if this election season they could not gather much donation it would be hard for them to continue the operation. I think they are not that hypocrite but they try to capitalize the issue and turn them to profit. Black Pink has not much issue to be capitalized, and it even may damage their relationship to their donors.
Regarding Israel, I should disagree with you because this is not only because Palestine support our independence. But, this is in our constitution that any colonialization should be eradicated. Palestine is still being colonialized by Israel, and you must have known that right after Indonesia was cancelled as the World Cup host Israel continue to harass Palestine. The mosques being vandalized, many Palestinians got injured and hospitalized. Hell, even Palestinian Footballers also got attacked by Israel military. If you haven't got the news you should find it. It is not about religion, it is about humanity. And, we should stand behind it. Before there is peace between Palestine and Israel, I think our nation should keep protest to the world regarding Israel wrongdoings. And if suddenly our nation turned soft to the Israel just because there one or two international events, wouldn't be it us who are hypocrite? I am certainly not a nationalist, but I am a humanist. and I stand for the better humanity for Palestine.
Last thing to add: Other countries that are already into space exploration are also still coping with religious building and tolerance. You name it, US, France, UK, even Japan they still are still building tolerance between religion. I think religion tensions would be still exist even after we colonize Mars. I bet there will be a protest for construction of Church or Mosque in Mars, but well.. who knows.... lol..
@@BG_LowLol you don't know nothing about paleztinian.. Israel never colonized because that is their land . But islam ( Paleztinian) colinize jewish Land (Israel).
@@agustan4022 well you just read different history book than mine then...
Many people in Indonesia are Muslim KTP (Indonesian identity cards) because they don't really practice their religion, even written in the IC. Being a Muslim in Indonesia is privileged than you write other religions
Mattamu
Their is nothing such as moderate islam....
I was born and raised in Indonesia. Indonesian citizens. Not a Muslim, but I feel that in Indonesia, moderate Muslims are still dominant.
Although there are those who are intolerant, but only a handful.
If an extremists leader win in Indonesian election, Singapore and Australia must ready to accept some refugees.
Most of minority here didnt have much money to make it lol
Currently saving money and reading things, just in case lol
Australia will help eastern Indonesia become independent
Saya sebagai orang Indonesia jujur tidak peduli dengan agama, tidak terlalu serius beragama.. lebih suka hidup damai kita tahu Agama tertua itu Hindu dan agama terakhir itu Islam
Lu kata siapa? Ada banyak agama sebelum Hindu , dan ada banyak agama setelah islam itu pasti, bahkan agama2 baru hari ini pun tumbuh dan berguguran.
@@garfield2742 yang penting duluan Hindu dan Buddha... Wkwk
@@yogasetiaone iya sih kalau no urut mah. Wkwkw.
@@yogasetiaone animisme dan dinamisme duluan
@@yogasetiaone
betul. ngapain terlalu serius berlebih-lebihan dalem beragama?
dan juga, gak akan saya gadaikan persatuan seluruh indonesia dengan agama apapun.
Religion and state has to be separate.
I play rust with a bunch of Indonesians. A lot of them say the radicals are getting crazier where one incident one of their uncles became radicalized and tried to ban him from playing Computer games and got really violent with his dad over the situation.
I think it's alright if Indonesian express their belief or support something as long is peaceful. I hope they do something more productive ( working, utilizing their climate and geographical location, increase living standard etc ). There are still some Indonesian who live in poverty they should more care about these people rather than people who live far away.
Same condition in singapore to, when the poperty is the main issue
CNA forgot that the governor of Bali who strongly opposed Israel's participation is not even a muslim. What a shameful framing.
What can you expect from non-Indonesians?
The true reason why Indonesians reject Israeli footballers to come to Indonesia is because of Indonesians' ignorance about Israel and Palestine.
Indonesians should just be neutral, not siding with either Israel or Palestine.
@@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072kkkkk... Udah jelas konsitusi dan sudah banyak yang menjelaskan itu tentang HAM... Paham
@@dutasatu1 konstitusi tidak mempertegas ataupun menyuruh indonesia melarang pesepakbola israel dtg ke indonesia utk main sepakbola.
@@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072 siapa bilang.. Bahkan jaman pak soekarno udah pernah terjadi kok....
@@dutasatu1 tidak dinyatakan secara literal, dan bahkan duta besar palestina utk indonesia menyatakan mempersilahkan saja datengnya para pesepakbola israel u20 ke indonesia.
yg bersalah adalah para tukang politik yg gak bisa berfikir panjang serta juga mereka yg gak kepengen lihat sepakbola indonesia memiliki jam terbang internasional akibat rasa iri dengki, siapapun di antara mereka, mau apapun itu agama dan etnis mereka.
It's not about religion at all. It's about humanity.
If it was about humanity, they should've remove diplomatic relation with Russia, USA, and many more countries.. but they didn't so it's obviously about religion not humanity
@@paranoya733 I think it's a bit of both. What Israel has been doing to Palestinian people is unacceptable. Even as a non-muslim I could understand why they reject Israel. So this is the "humanity" Part. As for the "religion" part, it's mostly because the victims there were muslims.. While Russian or the US victims were not specifically Muslim
What does that even mean?
This is more about social class conflict. Middle class muslims are on the rise and they see christian and chinese minority as rival. That's why they promoted verses like Al Maidah 51 and they says jews and christian cannot become leader at gov or even a school class. I was told of this by an uztaz at youtube whose organization (NU) has been researching this matter for years. I acknowledge as a christian minority, middle class muslims generally more hostile to me than lower class muslims.
Yes, and CNA is failed to show the relationship between the rejection of Israel U20 team and Islamoc group. Its a false news and should be revised.
"Religion cannot be separated from politics. But supposedly, religion should be a political moral guide."
-Buya Prof. Dr. H. Ahmad Syafi'i Maarif
"Religion-the universal values of religion-should be an inspiration for political activities. However, if religion is instead used as a political tool, secularism is better."
-Guru Gembul
NADHATUL ULAMA and NASIONALIST WILL BE THE GUARDIANS OF INDONESIA.
WE ARE THE MAJORITY AND WE WILL GUARD THIS NATION.