Movie Couple Therapy: SHREK and FIONA
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2023
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How do you build a marriage that lasts? What does a "happily ever after" in reality look like?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright are taking another look at Shrek and Fiona's relationship, focusing on their married life. They talk about expectations in relationships, handling the pressures and fears of parenthood, and nurturing a relationship amid the hectic reality of life with children. Jonathan talks about embracing the messiness of a real "happily ever after," and Alan looks back on his own fears of parenthood.
Watch part 1 here: • Movie Couple Therapy: ...
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, Alan Seawright, and Corinne Demyanovich
Edited by: Jenna Schaelling
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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Shrek fell for Fiona while she was a human, so they'd already bonded emotionally before her ogre self was revealed. And he thought that she was smoking hot as an ogre, showing their true feelings. What a fantastic couple!
The barbie movies success was being anti female accountability
@@Strong-Feminine30huh? Your comment is completely unrelated
@@directorforplastic7929 I'm thinking they are bots, they don't have any recent history and say the same thing on other people comments
@@lizzyrank5405or are they ogres?
Oh, wait, ogres have layers.
Trolls do not.
@@Justanotherconsumer good burn
My mom has a very honest saying: "I'm always gonna love you, but I'm not always gonna like you." It's an affirmation of unconditional parental love, but also an acceptance of the reality that as a child, I'm gonna be a pain in the ass sometimes.
That's a nice way to say it.
Better than Fences
“Who say I got to like you? What law is there say I got to like you? You’re my responsibility, my job to take care of you”
Not once did Denzel’s character ever admit he loved his son, not once, even if he’s right some, a kid needs to hear these things growing up to know the parents at least care
I love that and I feel a lot of parents need to hear that.
I say this to my husband when I'm really upset with him. "I love you, but I don't like you right now and I need a minute."
@@ninjanibba4259 You said it. That's just rather cold to say to your son or daughter.
FINALLY someone acknowledges that Fiona and Shrek are actually such a good married couple 🥺
Wait do people say they are NOT a good couple? Call me perplexed!
@@Poetaytoes42people don't say it. OG is being baity and succeeding at it
They're honestly goals. And the sequels actually show them getting through hardship in a healthy way. It absolutely brilliant.
@@Jalabhar_Xho I have personally heard people say that they're toxic just because they get in fights.
@@MxMoth-yo4eg Gasp! They are argue like a real couple! Can't have that.
I love how, before he looked at Fiona, he looks at his friends, cheering and showing love for him, this family that only exists because Fiona helped him let people get closer, so when he looks at Fiona he thinks "she saved me, she gave me this life". He loves his annoying ass friends, he loves his wife and loves his children, and it's just so, so sweet
No, Donkey did all that. Donkey accepted Shrek as a person from the start, Finoa took time, and Donkey broke him down and opened Sherk up to accept friends and encouraged him to go for Fiona. Donkey had Shrek admit he had feelings for Fiona. Donkey even had Fiona admit she had feelings for Sherk. This whole relationship wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for Donkey's involvement and encouragement.
"annoying ass" friends omg 😂😂😂
@@Scrofar
Well, if your friends don’t know you enough to be able to annoy you in just the right ways. How close are you really? Haha
Well Donkey did a fair part
@@J-manli I think they might be laughing at the accidental pun (as "ass" is sometimes also used as a word for donkey)
Thank you for acknowledging that not everyone gets the immediate love for their babies. It took me a long time to have any bond with my babies and I thought I was a horrible mother for not being overwhelmed with love the moment they were born.
Same for me. I loved my baby, but the moment my baby was born I didn’t get that epic feeling like the stars aligned like a lot of people described to me. Though, when I gave birth it was a traumatic experience and my baby ended up in the NICU for a time. After the stress of all of that gave way, finally that deep love settled in.
I'm due in May with my 1st and this is my fear. I hate how everyone keeps "reassuring me" that everything I will automatically feel that connection once I give birth. That's not helpful advice! I want actual advice if that happens to me 😔
Oh that was me too. I'm now pregnant with my second, and because I had that experience with my first, I'm reminding myself that if I'm strictly in survival mode early on when Little One gets here, that's ok.
@cactuswitch631 my best advice is don't worry about it (I know easier said than done). It will happen when it happens. It might be a wave that hits you or so subtle you don't even notice it happened at all but it will all work out. With my oldest it was when he first laughed. He laughed at his own fart and I instantly fell in love with this tiny human who thought farts were funny. With my twins it took a very long time, mostly due to trauma and postpartum depression but it happened. I've realized in the years since that I just don't bond with newborns. I need some kind of personality to show through otherwise they are just a little lump that demands everything from me while giving nothing in return.... now toddlers those are phenomenal little creatures I'll take toddlers over newborns any day.
@@cactuswitch631Just know that it’s okay to not feel all of those emotions, and don’t put too high of expectations on yourself to feel anything or be an amazing parent. We’re all just winging it! It’s like they said in this video, just accept what reality is and enjoy that. It’s okay to enjoy reality! All of that love will come sooner or later! 😊
I think people who disliked the later movies missed that it is actually pretty consistent with character development and bringing this big arc for Shrek and his journey of self-acceptance. And they still managed to bring something new yet keep the "color" of the movies. I love Shrek, it is really smart and deep! :) And thank you for your channel! Psychology and movies is my passion :)
I didn’t like 3 and forever after not because of the main characters, it just felt kind of like an afterthought. The world and characters felt well designed. Whether it was done to mock Disney’s portrayals or to genuinely make them feel like a interesting character. In 3, the princesses were just one joke and no substance, arther was completely forgettable, and overall, it really felt cheap. While forever after was better, I still felt it wasn’t nearly as good as the first two films.
Forever After is actually not that bad as I remember it. It’s just with what happened with Shrek the Third is what messed up a lot of expectations after that one
Shrek the Third was terrible, but Forever After was still great. The all had natural development for both Shrek and Fiona, and they were both good in that department. The relationship between Shrek and Fiona was never the problem, it was everything else.
There's more to liking a movie, or indeed a movie that's good, than simply character consistency.
I think the "baby poopy diapers are gross" bits were a clear sign that they lost sight of the characters. S1 and S2 Shrek & Fiona would have changed the diapers, wondered aloud why humans make such a fuss about this part of raising babies, and probably used the diaper to wipe their armpit sweat for good measure. S3 and S4 Shrek & Fiona feel more like "regular humans in ogre costumes" rather than "ogres with complex personalities and emotions".
Accountability in parenting was the hardest thing for my husband and I. Neither of us had parents ever take accountability for mistakes, so we called each other out a lot early on. Now, our 7 year old daughter knows that she's seen, heard and respected.
I think it's hard for everyone. My dad and mom are really good at this, they have a lot of flaws as humans but they both are great parents. And still my sister is struggling a lot with her son, she always asks our mom about her experience and argues with her husband, and I'm really scared of time when I myself will become a mother. So yeah, good parents definetely will be a great help, but it's still so so hard to be a good parent yourself. So you and your husband are doing a great job! Your daughter is really lucky to have you both
Bad moms was anti feminale accountability. Barbie movie was anti female accountability.
Ironically feminist writers who go on About issues unique to women apparently never asked men if have any similar issues
What did the barbie movie and feminism have to do with OP's comment- respectfully
@@0verpricedcoffee553 Likely bots or trolls
Shrek is love, Shrek is life
Aaaaaaahhhhhhh😂😂😂😂 still mini traumatized by that 😂❤❤
Bro 💀
😭
Please don’t
Not on my Christian server!🤣🤣🤣
What I loved most was that there wasn’t an initial attraction for either of them, they became attracted over time
That's not how dating works anymore. If you don't have an attraction there's no chance it will grow. Especially as you get older, where you don't have a group of friends or workplace to spend time together.
wrong@@codydavis3100
@@codydavis3100 That is true, but Shrek and Fiona didn't meet with the intention of dating, no attraction required. They started dating/got married *after* they became attracted to each other. If you were to be in a relationship, then yeah there should be attraction of some sort in order for said relationship to grow. OP just likes that they started as friends and that it wasn't "love at first sight" is all.
@Insanivee I get that, but that isn't the norm for most people nowadays. You meet people all the time and if you aren't part of a new group to be around a lot then those opportunities for attraction to grow don't exist. Because of that, you're either attractive or not. Makes it harder for actual ogres.
I appreciate that. I’ve never believed in “love at first sight”
"You're pretty, but I like you anyway!" Shrek being opposite day incarnate gets me every time 😂
I didn't realize until I was an adult, but there are IMMEDIATE racism parallels with Fiona's parents:
"Somehow I don't think we'll be welcome at the country club."
"Stop it, they're not like that."
I really appreciate Alan's ability to be vulnerable and speak about his own mental health experience. Not enough men are willing to do that. You guys do great work. Never change.
I've always loved Shrek's ending, it was the first to truly show what it preached, with Fiona turning into an ogre instead of a princess. It really hits different even to this day.
There was apparently debate amongst the writers as to whether or not she should turn into an ogre full time at the end, as there was concern they would send the message of "ugly people with ugly people". Considering DreamWorks has done interspecies relationships before, sounds like her staying a human was considered at one point.
Is that from the interview with Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio?
@@Ninja_Ogress Yes.
@@billybarnett9518well, ugly people are with ugly people, they just love each other, they’re ogres
The message is either way the same
@@ninjanibba4259 Yes, but perhaps some writers felt it was saying he didn't deserve a beautiful princess.
"But literally what do you do with a baby? It is a noisy smelly house plant."
- Alan
One thing Johnathan missed: Yes Fiona chose Shrek. The king is not just trying to accept the husband his daughter chose, but also fully accept WHO SHE IS NOW (he still sees it as a "curse" which Shrek accepted her unconditional, and Fiona has fully embraced her new body/look/form that she obviously didn't like every night she was in the tower).
I also feel a lot of the kings anger towards shrek was because The king himself was cursed once, he was a frog remember? And he believed the only way to find love and be happy was fitting in with society and being “Normal” aka human…He comes to realize later on that he was wrong, that being “different” and not fitting in with how society wants you to be DOESNT mean you can’t be happy and find love and joy…Even his wife Lillian came to love him still even when he was turned back into a frog
17:04 This scene really is great for a lot of reasons. One is how Shrek obviously puts a lot of frustration and stress into that roar making it more like a scream for help, and it's treated like a party trick by everyone but Fiona.
FIONA! Not Finona who TF is that?
It was a mix of oh god please help me and maybe a bit of kytharsis.
God. "I love you, daddy" gets me every time lol been years, and just a smack in the face 😂
The moment that kid popped up in the video, it was like this primal memory woke up in the back of my mind. Dear lord my friends and I quoted him so much back in the day.
I’m laughing laughing so hard at the end of the video when Johnathan said it to Allan 😂😂😂
That had me dying. My Freshman year room mate and I had so many bits surrounding the Ehreck movies and that plus do the roar was one of them. This was in college. I surprised her with one of the bits several weeks aho after I don’t know how many years of not talkinf and got a good laugh out of her. Sometimes, not often but sometimes, my comedic timing is impeccable.
“Daddy he’s gettin’ away do somethin’” 😂😂😂
When I had my first baby there was a weird mix of instinctive primal love where I would immediately give my life for her, and feelings of her being a stranger and feeling like there was something wrong with me because I didn’t feel as connected and bonded as I expected. I didn’t realize that, just like any relationship, it takes time to get to know each other. Out of the blue my husband came home one day and said that a friend of ours had instructed him to tell me that it’s ok and normal to feel like I don’t know my baby right away. It was exactly the encouragement I needed so I take every opportunity to tell other new parents the same thing. My baby is 17 now and we’re incredibly close. 😊
Years or months? XD
@@justalpha9138 lol years but we were doing pretty ok by 17 months too 😂
@@lacyLor Oh okay. Well, I wish you the best! If they're 17, it's gonna be a tough time for them and they'll be super questioning and confused with what to do. I hope they find something that they'll love. :)
To me, the human characters all seemed stiffly animated, compared to everyone else. This is likely intentional, since it shows that Fiona is more comfortable in her orge form than her human one.
@@ImMaleImProud
Sus 😳
@@ImMaleImProudcool. Probably for the best for everyone.
@@ImMaleImProudCongrats on coming out as gay
@@shaobues I feel offended to be in the same community as that
@@ImMaleImProud , may I ask why ?
Probably the best lesson in any movie, animated or not: ugly is beautiful. Also despite being raised as a princess (although being put in a tower at age seven to have her curse broken by a prince is wrong), Fiona isn’t afraid to be gross. It helps build Shrek’s confidence and comfort levels because he sees her as this beautiful, refined lady yet they have a snarky attitude towards each other that leads to them gradually bonding, especially when he sees she’s not a damsel when she fights off bandits. There is the misunderstanding towards the end but you can still see they deeply care for one another and they want the other person to be happy. Things don’t go so well with the in laws, but it doesn’t always in real life, and you can tell her parents want what’s best for her. They just had expectations that were dashed and the king is under pressure by the Fairy Godmother, who I love as the villain. It’s very clever and you hate her, but you can’t help but enjoy watching her
I would argue that ugly is not beautiful; it is, by its very definition, the opposite of beautiful. But I would *also* remind folks of the maxim that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Standards of what is "beautiful" change all the time, and are different in other places around the world right now. So let go of this idea that there is a finite definition of either "ugly" or "beautiful".
Probably just nitpicking over semantics, but that's pretty much in character for me.
I disagree... Fionna is hot among Ogres, whie Shrek is a good looking Ogre... not Humans.
I'd think she's not afraid to be gross BECAUSE she was alone since she was 7 😂 way before quarantine I found myself alone with no friends to visit in person except my toxic significant other for a few years. I developed a few socially unacceptable behaviors and had to relearn that a bunch of stuff is not okay to do/say 😵💫
Luckily Fiona has a great group of friends that love and understand her!
@@kinasakuraba Yeah, I don't think Farquad or Charming would've accepted her gross side at all. I believe if Fiona had stayed human at the end of Shrek 1, Shrek still would've married her even though she wasn't an ogre.
@@billybarnett9518farquad & charming only loved the idea of Fiona. They wouldn’t be able to take the bad & the ugly. Plus, they only wanted to marry her for that crown 👑
"But I'm not touching you" such sibling energy 😂❤
"It's not racist because he's a Donkey." That hit me way to hard.😂😂😂
What's the joke? I don't get it lol
Late to the party but I loved that 😂
@@mandospiegel8994depending on the ethnicity and culture of the character, a lot of even appreciative phrases would be considered racist by many. Many people interpret a bit too much into many things and can’t differentiate between appreciation and appropriation, and more.
Therefore the safest approach is to have a nonhuman character express appreciation in phrases such as “I love Mexican food” without being interpreted as something potentially racist. And the fact that we need to be this careful only because a few people can’t discern between hatred and appreciation, can be quite funny in a sarcastic way.
I think what I love about the party scene in Shrek 4 is just the amount you can see Shrek has grown and is currently being forced to regress at the same time. Like he doesn't blow up at the cake's design despite not liking it, he just gives a very dull remark about it, which is pretty on point for Shrek. I'd believe him making that remark even if he wasn't currently burnt out of his mind. He tries to talk Donkey down from his impulses after brushing off the remarks made by others that are clearly getting to him, Donkey licks the cake which is a huge insult but he doesn't reprimand Donkey for it beyond a cry of exclamation. He attempts to be civil with the father and the son, and walks away attempting to calm down when that doesn't work. He lets out a snide remark about the cake when there are complaints and is further insulted when the Queen insinuates he's the one who ruined it when he wasn't. He lets that slide. He's continually caught off guard and distracted by other elements including the requests for a roar which he also attempts to satisfy while panicking over the pigs selfishly eating the cake AND attempting to calm his children, showing his love and commitment to try and resolve things peacefully but it not being enough. So the pigs are driving him crazy and Donkey has now turned his rebuked roar into a "promise" that now everyone needs to pay attention to, and his babies are still crying and there's chaos everywhere and-
ROAR
He is fed up. And he satisfies the roar. Both to let out his anger and in an attempt to make the boy and his father happy, or at least back the fuck off.
And what happens next? The original thing that had him burnt out and frustrated in the first place gets affirmed.
His great roar, once something that inspired fear, is now treated like a parlor trick. A party favor. A jolly green joke, to quote the ogre himself.
Puss brings out a new cake, fixing the situation, but Shrek's feelings have been left in the dust. His desire to be seen and taken seriously, to have some semblance of his old life back, now personified by the gleeful smiling ogre on the cake. It's insulting him. As no one at the party has even registered or even cared that Shrek was in distress, and have treated his outburst like it was nothing. The only one who does notice is Fiona, who was too pre-occupied herself with trying to take care of things that she failed to see Shrek spiraling until it was too late. And Shrek crushes the cake. Killing the party, and leaving him to go have his angry outburst.
To me it's such a perfect scene that encapsulates why and builds upon the prior scenes establishing why Shrek is upset, how he's reached this point, the reasonable parts of it, the unreasonable parts of it, all while not betraying his character and growth up until this point. Even after his outburst, Shrek doesn't go on some tear to try and feel like himself. He helps Rumple fix his wagon, even if he's apathetic about it considering the circumstances. It's Shrek's pattern of behavior, where his anger overcomes him at poor times and thus burns bridges that allow his insecurities to take root. Shrek 4 really is a good movie.
I like your essay here.
The fact that Larry King is the most enthusiastic and supportive princess/woman in the bunch never fails to crack me up
As comedic as that birthday party scene was, that was a scarily accurate representation of how my home life feels on a nearly daily basis. I feel for Shrek, and I'm always grateful for Jono and Alan to (obviously indirectly) talk me through these kinds of tough situations.
That scene where Shrek embraces his children at the end is just beautiful. I also feel like they did a better job at making the ogre babies cuter and more baby like.
It is rather touching when Alan opens up about his past, and he's visibly nervous about it. So, Alan, thank you for sharing - you're very strong not only because you're clean now, but because you have it in you to openly talk about it
Lots of love from Ukraine ❤
"It's a noisy, smelly house plant." The best description of babies I've ever heard🤣🤣🤣
The father vs. Shrek component at the introduction is also compounded by the King's deal with the fairy godmother. So there's not only the, "I want what I perceive is best for my daughter" thing but also the, "I'll be caught in this massive freaking lie I've been living for DECADES" thing doubled by, "Pissing off mob-boss/fairy lady would be BAD for me and my family" at play.
So, y'know, layers. Like an ogre.
Or an onion!
Also hes racist against the ogre
I was so disappointed as a teen when I learned Fiona wasn't a Disney princess since Shrek is DreamWorks. She's badass and amazing definitely my favourite princess along with Mulan, Aurora, Tiana and Merida, Disney or otherwise. Glad you guys did an episode on Fiona and Shrek.
Also the dinner scene and the part where they break into Fairy Godmothers potions factory from Shrek 2, has to be one of my fave from many animated movies. I think I need a Shrek rewatch now😂
The men in the Barbie land still did all the hard work
@@Strong-Feminine30huh??
“And please someone bring me something deep fried and smothered in chocolate!”
@@s_napps yes thanks for reminding the food animations always made me water as a kid whenever I watched it. I'm definitely rewatching it soon
Warrior Princess Fiona from the 4 Movie is my favorite form 😍
A new interpretation I came up with while just walking home was that Fiona's curse is a self imposed one. Since she had non-normative female habits (fighting, she burps outloud, etc) she crafted an alternative version of herself that shows to the world. The "pretty princess" one.
And Shrek and Fiona fell in love with each other because her habits slipped out but instead of being disgusted as Fiona would fear Shrek actually likes them. Hence she becomes her true self when the curse breaks when she kisses Shrek
Also I'd like to add that I didn't like forever after
Not because it's a bad movie
But because it's literally "a wonderful life" with s Shrek setting lol
And besides that the idea of changing the behavior of characters at the start in order to match the tone the writers want for that scene
I figured Fairy Godmother put the curse on Fiona so that her son Charming would have the chance to play noble knight, rescue the princess, marry into royalty, etc etc. But Shrek got to Fiona first and screwed up the plan.
So do you think Shrek would've married her if her true self was a human with ogre like tendencies?
I appreciate so much in films and shows when the couples journey is shown after the “happily ever after.” It’s so important for people to know that relationships take work with patience and grace, and one gains skills along the way through trial and error. Many people go into relationships with certain family backgrounds where maybe the skills weren’t shown to them, and they have to learn. I married my husband not realizing that a certain level of conflict is normal, and it can be used as an opportunity for us to both grow into kinder, more empathetic people, towards each other and also towards others. It can bring us closer together too, and creates a real feeling of triumph as a team when we do overcome a disagreement. The Shrek films really show a new and exciting relationship turning into a comfortable, mundane yet beautiful one, and it’s so amazing and really needed.
Shrek is love, Shrek is live
Peak of healthy masculinity
The key to feminist success is. Anti female accountability.
Look at barbie how that was successful
Thank you for bringing attention to the whole early parenthood lack of feelings thing. I got pregnant with my child at 17 and wasn't planning to go through with becoming a mother, but was talked into going through with the pregnancy by my ex's mom. I actually never wanted kids and almost 15 years later I haven't had any more. I want my child of course, but the connection between us came much further down the road than I thought it would. I had a very long period of time where I felt resentment and like I was coerced into becoming a parent coupled with intense shame for not immediately falling in love with my baby. It was made worse due to an extremely traumatic labor and birth because my baby was huge (9lbs 7oz and 22 3/4" long) and I had anemia so I lost enough blood to be on the verge of needing an infusion to save my life. I also had undiagnosed and untreated post-partum depression. I wish more people talked openly about how hard it is to be a parent and how it's normal to have ups and downs in the connection and relationship with your kids. We should support parents through the rough times not shame and guilt them because they shouldn't let tough times effect their parenting.
I'm sorry you went through that I wish you got t he support you and your hild dese ed praying for your healing just know that your kid was given as a blessing for your salvation and others too we all are. And also know you are not bad parent for not feeling fuzzy feelings as love is a choice and you chose to love and there is more blessings in that its easy to love when you feel connected to someone but not so much when you don't. Congrats warrior.
"it's not my life I'm worried about ruining, it's the kid's" hits so hard!!!
I love how realistic and loving they are. They don't care about the parts of each other that society might shame, they fight but you can't help but understand both sides when they do but they get over it because they value each other so much
When my wife and I finally saw our son for the first time,it was after she had gone through 23 hours of labor followed by an emergency c-section because his heart rate kept plummeting. For both of us when we first saw him, our first thought was "is he breathing?" Like, I saw him first, since I wasn't laying on a table with my stomach open and it was an excruciatingly infinite number of seconds before he let out a cry, and he was so purple. Then when the nurses brought him to my wife, he was silent, probably exhausted, and she was in tremorsfrom the combination of pitosin and muscle relaxers and pain killers and sleepless hours and compared to that, he looked as still as death. When she actually voiced the question I had kept in my mind, there wasn't even any emotional inflection to betray her fear, she was just that exhausted.
When they put her under, they gave him to me to place on my chest for the "skin to skin" experience that is so important. The nurses were almost completely hands-off from that point unless they were taking him for tests, so it was just him and me for the next 4 hours, and all I could think of was how much I was afraid to crush this tiny little being, and later when the adrenaline died down, I was terrified of the possibility of falling asleep while holding him (something that definitely happened, and even once I woke up and picked him up and sat down with him while never waking up) that all I could do was silently sob while hushing him to sleep...
Yeah, I mean, I am SO grateful for the bond I forged with my son that night, but this was 6 years ago and I can still feel the fear of that night.
Bro, this made me cry.
It was quite reassuring to hear that people who worry about what kind of parents they would be actually do better then those who think they've got it all. I'm not a parent but I worry a lot about what kind of a parent will I be and that I wanna try my best to raise good humans. Also i liked this quote that a happy ever life comes with its suck-iness😂😂
Same here. My parents messed me up (they don't know 😉) and I struggle with relationships in general. Therapy has helped me work on communicating better and reflect on myself. I would love to have kids (natural or adopted) but I get anxious thinking about how I'm gonna mess them up. Hearing that felt like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders 😅
As long as you're trying to do a good job, you'll do a good job. The reasons they gave were exactly right. Every parent messes up because we're human. Parenting is all about the overall experience for the most part barring big lifechanging stuff.
I've seen moms in public whose young children are having a meltdown. I never had children, but I always give those moms a sympathetic smile. I never had a public meltdown, but I did have a lazy eye as a two year old, and would sometimes run into doors and bruise my own face. My mom says she was afraid someone would think I was being abused. I had surgery for it, and my eyesight today is still better than any of my family members, sixty-two years later.
I like all the Shrek movies, but the problem I have with the fourth one is that it doesn't really address Shrek's initial problem. He loves and appreciates his family, but he's not wrong to want to have a break from routine and have some time away from his responsibilities. That sort of thing is healthy and can help prevent burnout.
I think they SORTA tied into it??? At the end, he's hanging out with other ogres and enjoying some kid-friendly partying with other adults.
I daresay a part of his burnout was the fact that he only had Donkey and Puss as friends. (Yeah, there's the other fairy tale creatures, but I don't think he's as close to them; either because they don't click the same way or they live far away and don't get to see each other often). Shrek probably needed to broaden his social circle and find other people to connect with, to help unwind. (I imagine it helps that none of the ogres have kids, so they aren't bringing any Extra Crazy to the household.)
My parents definitely had friends who didn't have kids, and sometimes they'd come over to hang out with my parents while I just did kid stuff.
@@alexandriahunt6058 He meant that Shrek needed a break from being a family guy since people were getting on his nerves at his kids' birthday party at the Poison Apple at the beginning of the fourth film. But instead, he wished that he were a real ogre again.
@@ChelseaPariella Well after days of bottling up those emotions, they explode in ugliest ways possible. So Shrek ended up uttering a wish he never truly wanted but he just felt he needed at a moment impulsively.
@@alexandriahunt6058 And also the issue of privacy, because when Shrek said he wanted to be accepted, it doesn't mean people get to treat him as a tourist attraction.
@@memecliparchives2254 Sure and as the film went on, he doesn't care about being a real ogre anymore and learned to appreciate what he has at the end. It was pretty much a "be careful what you wish for" story.
FINALLY THE BEST ANIMATED SAGA MOVIE EVER
An amazing trilogy. 1, 2, and Forever After are fantastic. it's nice to see that there's no mediocre in-between. None at all.
@@Dairunt1They should have named it Shrek Threeever After
I agree
@@eliben4066 I agree
"I had misdiagnosed what the damage was, and I wasn't aware of the extent to which I was damaged" is something I feel at the core of my soul. It costed me a friend to be aware.
OMG Alan " What do you do with a baby? They're an annoying, smelly houseplant" 😂😂😂 Best Alan quote EVER!
Oof, didn't expect the parenting section to wreck me the way it did. I'm in tears over here, my goodness lol
I'm a very broken down person, with autism and ADHD that I've only discovered and come to terms with this year. I'm trying to raise a son with much more prominent autism and ADHD than I have, and I'm terrified I won't be a good enough mom for him at any time because I can barely hold myself together.
I needed some of this guidance and validation today.
So we not talking about how Fiona ate knights that failed to rescue her and she had an entire cookbook or.....?
Well, it's not like she killed them. The dragon did. And if any of them weren't totally burnt to ashes then why waste the meat? It didn't look like her parents really sent supplies that regularly. Shrek had a point about them locking her in a castle, especially since it was far away in another kingdom & they didn't visit.
No we are not but we should 😭
@pastelprincess3643 sometimes you just gotta do what you can to survive.
Shrek eats eyeballs and threatened to eat humans...😅
Judging by the size of the book... Didn't it belonged to the Dragon?
XD
Hope Alan is ok, he seems a bit subdued in this episode, you guys are honestly my favourite comfort CZcams channel. Going through a lot at the moment and you guys help so many of us in ways you don’t realise. Please never stop making videos!
I hope so too, but it's likely just the 7th episode of the day or something (I know they record them in huge batches)
@@rizahawkeyepierce1380 ah ok, didn’t realise they filmed so many in one day! Thank you :))
Shrek 4 is the only one that managed to make me cry.
I bawl my eyes out every single time watching it.
Thank you for addressing how parents don't feel "that love" when we first have kids. It sadly took me 4 years with my first son to click with that love, then I had another kid, and felt more drained and my attention was to the baby and I didn't make time for my oldest, it was hard to cope with the idea I'm a mom without my mom who passed away and I can't ask her for guidance and help and my ex's family wasn't supportive. Now it's like me and both my kids are inseparable and I love it.
There's a statement in the show Bojack Horseman from Princess Carolyn. "So there's work right? Work makes sense to me and I'm good at it. I don't..... feel that way about my baby. I'm not feeling what I'm supposed to feel, what I thought I would feel. I mean I love her, of course I love my daughter, but I don't know if I LOVE her. I know I'm a terrible person for even thinking it, but what if it never happens?" One of the BEST ways of explaining how it feels to be a parent all of the sudden. And that's how I felt after I had my first kid. I feel bad still it took me a long time to adjust and accept that I had a baby, now I'm so happy to watch him grow and to teach him the great things in life but I'm also teaching the hard and dark parts of life and I'm so happy I had my kids and I'm alive because of them and im so grateful for life I get to live with them
The bit you said about the people who want kids but are terrified to have them in fear of messing them up... thank you for what you said... cause that's me 100%. My husband and I have been married for a year now, and we want kids, but I've been holding off cause I'm terrified I'll mess them up somehow... and I began balling when you said that I probably wouldn't because of the fact I'm worried about it.... I can't stress how massive of a fear this is.... so thank you for saying those things....
what's really interesting is what Jonathon said about family expectations and it's important to not map out your kids lives. I came out as a lesbian to my family and they were amazing about it, my mum did admit to me later on that she struggled initially because she had my future planned out, but they support me and are good parents and that's what matters. It's okay to want things for your kids as long as you don't force these expectations on them and allow them to be their own individuals who make their own choices.
One of the things that makes Shrek amazing to me, is it is one of the few stories that show what "happily ever after" looks like. They didn't just quit with the "the prince gets the princess"
Can relate - the first moment I had with my daughter was her being calm, then she noticed me and started crying in a very "... THIS is supposed to care for me?" kind of way and I was like "... why don't I feel anything?". It was a scary moment, but after a bit (which can be of different length and with different triggers for different people) I started to care very deeply for my little girl (and she addresses me differently, depending on the day she/they had). I expect this will change even further as we both get older, but kids definitely bring things into perspective man. 0_0
The thing about if you're convinced you're going to be a bad parent, you are more likely to be extra vigilant, was most definitely true in my case. I'm still truly gobsmacked at how balanced and confident my child has turned out to be, but seriously, I was on my own case ALL the TIME lol!
I'm dying to see you two do episodes on The Breakfast Club and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest!
Oh the Breakfast Club would be Amazing!
I doubt they’ll do One Flew Over the Cuckcoo’s Nest though, just bc it is so dark. But it’d awesome if they did.
They put my first daughter on my chest after delivering her, and we looked at each other like, "Who the heck are you?" Zero feelings (I suspect on either side). But she had bad jaundice, and they had to put her in a box of blue light for 90% of the day. Day two in the hospital, and we still weren't allowed to take her out of the box for more than a few minutes at a time. She was so sad and small, and I started crying, and I realized in that moment that I had fallen in love with this tiny stranger in a blindfold. It hits differently for everyone.
When my Mum has been in doubt about if she's doing a good job parenting, I have always responded by saying "You are already far less likely to be messing us up because you are worried enough to be constantly self-reflecting like you do." And now I can say that a licensed therapist can back me up on that :D
Is it weird that my favourite part of this video was Alan clearly loves the 'do the roar' kid as much as I do 😂 that kid makes the scene so much, he makes this movie it makes me giggle uncontrollably every time. Also yes marriage and kids and stuff 😅
It's been out for a while now, so I'd love if you guys did a villain therapy on Miguel O'Hara, or a psychology of a hero on Gwen Stacy.
I'm firmly in the no kids, just cats camp but my brother has three amazing kids. We both had a pretty rough upbringing but he's an amazing Dad. Don't be afraid you're gonna pass the bad stuff along to your kids. 👍
What’s amazing about the dinner scene is if you look really closely, you can see Harold and Shrek’s eyes twitching before they grab the pig so show how angry they are. That was a hilarious and amazingly implemented detail I think a lot of people may have missed when first watching it.
'It's a noisy, smelly HOUSEPLANT' FINALLY, someone who utters what I feel when I think of babies..... I'm happy for those people who want to procreate and have kids and take care of them and all that...BUT, that doesn't mean that my feelings, as someone who knew from a very early age she did not want kids, are less important or valid.
Thank you, for giving nuanced quips, highlighting both sides of the spectrum....just one more reason to love your channel.
🖤
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Hello fellow childfree person!❤
early gang for internet dads 🎉
Lol aaaaaye
the key to the feminist success was being anti female accountability. That's how Barbie was so successful
@@Strong-Feminine30 ???
Very interesting video. One thing I will add though is that when Fiona tells Shrek he "could have tried making an effort with her dad", well he did end up lashing out but he also DID TRY. He tried being nice, he tried to adjust his behavior and when there was something he didn't want to talk about, he either tried sugar coating it or politely push the subject away. How was he not trying?
I would be fascinated if you talked about parental relationships in Heathers, since a lot of people talk about the kids' dynamics but sweep away the idea that anything in that movie comes from the parents.
The party scene is also a great example of losing it because of overstimulation when you'reneurospicy.
My favorite line from the first movie was when Fiona says that she thought she'd be beautiful. Then Shrek says "You are beautiful!"
Noisy, smelly house plants! Omg, I'm crying! 🤣🤣🤣
I love that Fiona also validates him in the end- she wants the ogre she fell in love with and married. They have common personality traits and enjoy their lifestyle as ogres
It is said that Shrek's human form was inspired by Mike Myers, his voice. They look pretty similar, so I think it's true.
“You are pretty, but I like you anyway.” 😭
The shrek movies have always been guilty pleasures of mine, and as a fellow member of Gen z, I have to appreciate the impacts of the films.
I never realized how smart they were, especially the first two movies, in terms of hilarious pop culture references and jokes, but in terms of morals and themes.
Part of what makes Shrek and Fiona’s relationship works is that, Shrek never pretended to be someone he wasn’t. He knew he was a giant, ugly ogre and wasn’t necessarily ashamed of that or his lifestyle. However, he was still upset with the fact that no one would give him a chance to open his heart and mind, so he stuck to his tough exterior because it was an easy solution. Meanwhile, Fiona had been cursed with an identity crisis since she was a child. She was cursed to turn into an ogre every night and was locked away in a tower while waiting for her future husband in the shiny armor to rescue her. She wanted to stick to the stays quo in fairy tales and remain and human, but this conflicted her newfound feelings for Shrek, who accepted her as she was and was never really impressed with her title as a princess. They bring out the best in each other
Shrek is the 2nd in my pantheon of "Guys Who Turned Human but Really Looked Better as a Beast." Right along side... the Beast.
The kid saying "I love you daddy" in that tone will always crack me up 🤣
Love my internet Dads, happy to watch them even when my boyfriend acts annoyed 😂
@@ImMaleImProud dude go away
I've always admired the writing and characterization for King Harold: He internalized so much guilt for Fiona's curse, because he wasn't fully human. He genuinely believed his origins as a frog were WHY she was cursed, and THAT'S why he fought so hard against listening to Fiona's choices and accepting her as she chose to be. His guilt forced him to fight against her, made him blind to the truth before his eyes - but it's because he loved her. Because she was his daughter, his only child with the woman he loved, and that's a beautiful internal foil.
Harold got his happy ending, but was always so afraid his happy ending caused his daughter's curse.
Fiona got her happy ending, after living her life so afraid that her curse would prevent her happy ending.
The allegorical, psychological, metaphorical work these movies do is absolutely some of the best in the history of cinema - not just animated, not just fairy tale, not just romantasy. Cinema, all of it - Shrek stories are the best.
I actually like how Lillian, while not agreeing with Fiona's choice of husband at first, still acts polite and respectful of her daughters choice. After all, she did marry a frog... prince. She is also unaware of the secret deal Harold made with the Fairy Godmother.
Jono came for my entire life talking about good parents. I worry so often about if I'm doing okay by my kid. Thanks for the unexpected cry.
18:40 I about peed my pants 😂😂😂 Everyone always acts like I'm evil or something when I say babies are annoying. I read that crying is supposed to invoke a maternal instinct but all it invokes in me is anything from mild irritation to blind fury 😂
Some people feel that way, but because it's how babies are. They cry all the time. They don't talk. I don't think you're evil, you're just expressing your opinion. And I'm aware that some women don't like kids very much. 😏
This made me think of one of my favorite songs: "The Mother" by Brandi Carlile. In different interviews and her book, she said she wrote a song about how motherhood was not what she expected and that she had no idea what she was doing. So, she wrote a song about the beautiful and challenging things about motherhood.
Thank you Jonathan for making me feel better about wanting kids one day. I’m one of those “what if I mess them up?” kind of people and it’s always a struggle.
I think the movie Labyrinth is a perfect movie for this channel. Because there was a theory that the entire movie is Sarah's coping mechanism for being SA'd. Because notice how she never actually got Toby (the baby) back, symbolism for how she never got her innocence back. And the movie has a lot of interesting cinematography for Alan to talk about
😮
Thank you for making this video! My husband and I are smack dab in the middle of the 'very young children' part of parenthood, and, while my husband is more emotionally intelligent than some, I think he can't articulate his feelings toward fatherhood as clearly as you can. This is helpful to me as a wife so that I can better support him as a man, husband, and father. I think he can probably relate to your comment about 'for the first year of my life, my kids were mostly annoying' hahaha!
You are so welcome!
"What do you do with a baby? It's a noisy, smelly house plant!"
I nearly choked on my drink, I was not prepared for that! 🤣
Animation teaches more life lessons than any high school class.
Hold the rotary telephone, I didn't know the Dragon's name was Elizabeth this whole time and now feel kinda bad.
You’re not the only one.
I was TODAY years old when I found this out
I didn't know that either.
I’m pretty surprised y’all haven’t done a Forrest Gump episode. There’s a ton of characters that could be interesting to look at like Forest himself, Jenny, and Lit. Dan. Plus I assume Jono would have a lot to say for that couples therapy. And it’s a great film in general so there’d be great stuff for Alan to get into.
needs more likes, I'd love an episode on forrest gump, since Jenny's character imo is still heavily misunderstood to this day
a balance of accepting and growing for each other - i really like that way of looking at relationships!!
21:01 What an awesome moment of character growth on Shrek’s part. Shrek would often times resort to roaring due to his upbringing (anger for being mistreated before, etc.). And yet, after going on a journey where he’s lost his relationships with people that matter to him (Fiona, Donkey, etc), he has a newfound appreciation for the life he chose, even gaining self acceptance. Also, the ogre call is badass compared to the roar.
Exactly what I needed to watch today, thank you! Immediately after watching this I gave my Kids a „I‘m Sorry and I love you“ hug. It was a annoying day with a lot of figthing and yelling, but we can still start oder. Greetings from germany
I always shake my head whenever I see a parent talking to their toddler about having a new brother or sister, that it will be fun and you'll have someone to love and play with. From what I understand about young kids' concepts of time, that is so deceiving because as Alan and Shrek say, for the first year, they eat and poop and cry, nothing a little big brother or sister really enjoys. The play comes later but the "newness" wears off much faster.
Shrek 2's version of "Holding out for a Hero" is honestly better than the original.
I'm glad "Do the roar" gets you guys the same way it gets me every time.
This is coming out 4 days before my wedding. Cinema Therapy calling me out in a positive way
This was a great analysis and Alan's commentary is gold as usually! Could you do an exploration on the relationship between Hiccup and Astrid from the How to Train Your Dragon series? The slow build to their trust and open-communication was amazing to watch over the course of the films and a great example of a healthy relationship.
omg yes !! I’d love to see that as well
I absolutely love Shrek and Fiona's romance, how it grew from the first movie since they've been both accepting of themselves, with a few great friends and an OST to die for.
Also, I love thst in the last movie Fiona is like the boss around the other ogres and in the end, Shrek falla in love with her once again.
Both of them saved each other and that speaks volumes.
I cannot tell you how much i love these movies ❤❤❤❤
Do you think they'd still be married if Fiona was a human and Shrek was an ogre?
"Patrons are our real daddies. Sugar daddies" :D I'm dead ahahahaha
“It’s an annoying smelly house plant” 😂 As a mom of 3, truer words have never been spoken.
Your videos always hit the spot. It's like you somehow know what I need to hear before I do, and it's much appreciated. Thanks for always being there to help me out!
Glad to hear it. You're so welcome!
“I love you daddy” I’m so glad I’m not the only person that’s cracks up at this.
one thing i noticed between jono and allan. when something is genuinly funny allan wil tilt his head back and bring his hands to his mouth while hes laughing, while jono bends over and covers his face in laughter no wonder these two are friends.