we argue about Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny for 18 minutes
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2023
- Nadia and Jake discuss Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023).
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Nadia always comes with the hot take 😂
I love that I can always tune into these and agree with one of you and completely disagree with the other
She gave dial of destiny 9/10 and last crusade 5!? How is that even possible 😳
I didn't enjoy it quite to the degree Nadia did, but I still really liked it! I've seen it twice now, and my problems with it didn't bother me as much on a second viewing. Very solid movie that comes together well, though it is too long. I would have cut out maybe 30-45 minutes from the first half. Great discussion! Love that Nadia loved it so much.
EDIT: To Jake's thoughts about younger audiences getting bored, I thought this was going to be the case when I took my 8yo, but to my surprise, she enjoyed it! She was engaged throughout.
Is there a movie that Nadia doesn't like ?
The Thing
The Last Crusade
Why do you people get so mad at other people's dislikes or likes?
@@yennefer440 I don't see anyone getting mad at her in this thread.
She doesn't like Babylon, she has the worst taste ever.
I can't believe nadia is rating it so high but I can't get mad😅 you go guys
It's her mo. I can absolutely believe that.
I felt like the thematic core of Dial of Destiny was good but it could’ve used some more work. There was a lot of fat they could have trimmed off - the chase scene in Morocco went on for WAY too long. I also didn’t feel like Helena’s greed motivation didn’t link up with the themes of aging, changing/glorifying the past, and regret. Didn’t believe for one second she’d ultimately betray Indy
I like the movie, my mian issue with it is the directing feels like a dumbed down version of Spielberg. I also think the side characters like Helena and her kid could be a bit annoying. 6/10.
Not if your sole comparison is the Crystal Skull. This seems less stupid from a distances
wow wow the The Last Crusade slander was uncalled for
"why would you buy a cake, if you don't want to eat it?!" LOL!
About the Mutt stuff, I also thing they did the right thing. More if we think that this could be Indy last goodbye. Marion and Mutt are so big part of his journey since his family became part of three of the four previous movies, that letting them out would had been very weird. But ALSO, losing his son is very consistent for a movie focusing in HOW MANY THINGS TIME HAS TAKE FROM INDY. His strenght, his place in the world, his sense of wonder... Losing Mutt is the big stone in the bunch, giving more gravitas to a movie about time, the temptation of going back and the regrets we carry with us, something that Indy shares both with Helena and Voller as the main theme of a movie in which people didn't look to the past anymore, making them old toys while everybody is focusing in the stars. The funny thing is that this drama not only happened to Harrison Ford characters in Star Wars and Indiana Jones, but also in Blade Runner, being 2049 about Deckard and Rachael' stranged child
I disagree, it was a cheap way to get sympathy for the audience and it didn’t get enough depth as it needed.
@@Internatube It punched me emotionally the hardest any other Indiana Jones movie has done it before, caught me out of guard by the way they dealt with it, was very consistent as part of the core theme of Indiana Jones about time, with moments like Indy reaction about Antonio Banderas demise when Helena was playful about scaping the Nazi, and never was too much so they can bring it Indy back to his musical theme through that burden without minimizing it or alienating the franchise core, so I have to disagree. It wasn't cheap, it was right as it should be
What's your top 5 films Man Carrying Thing?
I'd go for a 4/10 on this one. I think a more somber take on the character could have worked, especially now he's so aged up, but without those exciting and practical action set pieces, it fell super flat for me. I will say I did quite like PWB's character, and her being essentially a Temple of Doom-style Indie I thought was a fun foil for grumpy ol' man Harrison.
Just found this channel btw and really like how you guys bring different opinions to the chat! Keep up the good stuff!
did i ask?
@@shiven513great attitude
I quite liked it too. It's become a small hobby to spot my hometown, Glasgow/Scotland, in movies. In this one, it's the scene where he's riding a horse through the city streets.
I love how they’re both in each extreme ahahhaha
After letting it sink for a week after i watched it, i can definitely say that Dial of Destiny is........ok but kinda disappointing to me compared to the first 3 movies. In some ways, i found it a bit better than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull but in others i felt like it was on par of that movie or that some of Crystal Skull did better than this one. The first act i was into (yes, even though CGI Harrison Ford was weird) but after that first act and before the batshit insane climax which got my attention, i just felt bored for most of the second act. I do like James Mangold's work but i felt like he didn't have the type of energy that this movie needed based on his other movies which some are grounded in reality to a point and have a dark tone in some of his movies. It didn't make me mad but it felt kinda flat and dull for most of it. I'm torn between a 5.5 or a 6 because there was some things i didn't mind but i don't feel like watching this movie again, imo. It's cool that there are people that do like it more than me though. Also, i don't understand why some people are blaming this movie on Phoebe Waller-Bridge like she broke into some of these people's houses and stole their toys or some weird shit. Anyways, good review there Jake and Nadia!!!
Having yall disagree with two polar opposites in movie reviews is what makes these reviews. Love it!
At one point I thought they we're only only going to address Mutt's death on a TV news report in the background and had a good chuckle to myself. Very Poochie-esque.
9/10 😅 Its fun how people can have wildly different views on the same piece of media. Rating "The Last Crusade" a 5/10 gives me a perfect idea of the types of movies one would enjoy.
Last Crusade is a 10/10 imo, my soul died a bit hearing that
This video makes me sad.
James Mangold and the raiders of the lost character arcs
Nadia 🫥… the argument about why Indy was depressed was making me so angry…..
Which de-aging was worse: Harrison Ford in this or Robert DeNiro in The Irishman?
This one
I loved it and saw it twice. Probably the indy film with the most heart although I agree obviously if Spielberg did it then the action sequences would have been more creative but (and I'm saying this as a massive Spielberg obsessed fan) there would have been A LOT more CGI. I know Frank Marshall and Kathleen Kennedy have some hindsight on crystal skull on the CGI from listening to them on the empire podcast, and it was mostly to do with them all having kids at the time and not wanting to do so much travelling because of that and trusting it was at the right level at the time and trusting Lucas which is fair really. But the amount of CGI really bugs me in modern Spielberg movies. I think BFG is excellent but dam there's more CGI than you need there and it's a bugbear for sure. Same with War of the World's which I kind of regret getting the UHD for because it makes the CGI aggressively distracting even though the movie, bar one scene where the teenager leaves without enough exposition as to why, is top level Spielberg magic.
I know Mangold really pushed for everything to be as practical as possible and I think there is a tactile nature to the action scenes that elevate them and the camera work is very Spielberg inspired. I love Le Mans 66 a lot and there are quite a few interesting shots in that that develop but it's still not quite there and I felt in this he really managed to develop as a filmmaker and the whole film is very good on that level. There isnt a lot of times where I'm tutting because it's just boring close up coverage.
I do think certain action sequences needed to be developed more like the horse in the subway is fantastic but too short, you could pack 2 more ideas in there and it would be there I reckon. The diving was cool but didn't really have any danger even though the running clock and the remark about eels being like snakes was great. And the following section in the boat where Helena is solving the mystery and stalling the Nazis is so so great that I can let that go. Whereas the tuk-tuk chase didn't quite have enough creative ideas, it was tense but maybe was a bit long without those being present. Having said that, the characters chasing Helena from her past had a funny adventure story aspect to it that I loved.
I do think it's a great ride overall though and felt like a great adventure going to all these places. I loved the Helena Shaw character and her sidekick thief. I loved the journey the characters go on together and how their relationships evolve, the ending is perfect and beautiful. The music is fantastic. It's definitely the most intriguing plot wise and arguably has the best script of all the Indys even if it doesn't have the best director you could have got but I think Mangold gives it a bloody good go and a lot of what's happening on a technical level is astonishing. And I don't mean the face de-aging which is a bit funky tbh but I really enjoyed Indy having to keep pretending to be a nazi. That was classic indy and it was hilarious to me.
I don't think the emotional beats hit at all but I had fun. I don't think it beats any of the old ones, but I had fun with it and all its flaws.
I actually ended up enjoying this more than I expected, a 7/10 for me. Better than Crystal Skull but not meeting the original 3.
Already left a comment that was too long but ive also remembered how great the colour scheming is with the costumes with the red and blue and its very pretty but also is very comic booky and like hey the guys in green are nazis and the red and blue people are the good like idk that sounds simple but when i watch the film i can see that its all very considered and a lot of work went into it.
❤❤
I disagree with Nadia ,jones did not really have arc instead he was punched and forced in to live the rest of his life happy. instead of through out the story realizing that his life still means something.
What??? 5/10??? 😵 It's literally perfect...
I loved this film!
7:39 - tht's the problem with these blockbuster legacy movies, they don't commit like John Wick 4 did where they really killed Lance Reddick on screen, RIP
I mean... Rating this one high and last crusade low, at least she's consistent with the level of quality she enjoys !
Its akin to preferring the 1998 Gus Van Psycho
I was so bored midway through the movie. It lack excitement and the CGI action scenes were so repetitive.
Me: Not only do I believe this is a cash grab, but I’m nearly positive that they wanted to damage their audience on the way out. The Last Crusade should have lived up to its damn name and been the damn end!
Nadia: This one is the best!
Me: Huh. Welll... huh.
I give it a 5/10. Not bad but I am not an IJ fanboy. It bothered me less. I have to say respectfully that Nadia's connection to what makes IJ lore is...
I accept the canon that Shia LeBouf died in Vietnam.
As for the movie, it was just..:fine. I liked the plot but the character development didn’t really work for me and it lacked the humor of the original movies (even Crystal Skull). I like Phoebe Waller Bridges but her character arc didn’t really work and it barely felt like the characters even cared about each other. Her being motivated by money and then suddenly changing didn’t feel very convincing. I don’t mind them not leaning into the melancholy of old age because I think that could get tiresome really quick and it gets done a lot in sequels made later than the original- that being said, I think they could have developed the plot between him and Marion a little better- the most emotion in the movie was when she showed up. Also really hated the randomly being framed for murder thing.
I haven’t watched any Indiana Jones movies before, so this was my first and I had zero expectations. I think the chase scenes could’ve used more humor to break them up- they were too long. I think the movie was too long on the whole. Overall I enjoyed it and I did like Helena by the end of the movie. She did annoy me at the start, though. I’d give it a 5/10
Why did you watch this without seeing the originals?
I recommend watching the others!
@@TypeLproductions a friend asked me to go with them.
@@esdraslopez4658 I want to now! :)
To be honest, I've got to agree with Nadia with that Dial of Destiny is better--well, more enjoyable (for me)--than the Last Crusade.
While the Last Crusade was great, I feel I didn't enjoy it as much as I wanted to, and I enjoyed Dial of Destiny much much more than I expected I would.
Sometimes i feel like nadia unconsiencely picks high ratings just to drive Jake up the wall
I really should have watched the whole video before commenting but im getting so triggered by the bloke (i dont know you guys that well yet so i cant remember your name sorry) OF COURSE Indiana Jones wants to stay in history because he loves it so much! It WAS his choice to stay there and Helena knocking him out and taking him back was the culmination of her dam character arc! Because she grew to love him and want a relationship with him. It was beautiful and good writing, my word. Theres also a littany of other things i really couldnt disagree more with 😂 its really riling me up and its quite funny, i do apologise, but there you go. You seriously think Mutt shoved away in a one off line about him not being there is better than integrating it into a meaningful story for the character we're wathcing in the film right now? It also makes his relationship with Helena have weight and a need for both of them to grow closer despite themselves. Can they grow enough to find that in each other? You know like a movie. Like a film. Like a story. We know they need each other and want them to grow closer so when they do and she knocks him the hell out its satisfying and he has the family hes lost. The argument for Indiana Jones shouldnt have any emotional core to his stories sort of went out the window in The Last Crusade and i feel like its appropriate to get deeper in this one because he is an older man. I really feel like the balance between having quite a lot of solid action sequences, a good mystery with a threatening villain and actually a good emotional story was very solid. It has a slower pace but it feels appropriate and im never bored, i always care about whats happening. I dont want to come after the other indiana Jones films but the only threatening villain in any of the other four is Molar Ram and the only interesting ones are Elsa Schneider and Irina Spalko. I wanted these arseholes to die so bad. Scene one in the modern day with them its like okay these guys are racist as heck. Scene two they kill a bunch of incovent people to achieve their goal. Mads is chilling, the massive guy looks ridiculous in a great way, the other geezer means business. They all work. Im also confused that you dont understand the Helena Shaw character, i thought it was a very clear arc. Shes a theif, she wants it for glory but as her relationship grows with Indy during the adventure then she changes. Its not inconsistent, its just characters making choices and changing. Also the tomb of Archimedes was so great and creative and fun and the best one in the series. Anyway i hope this wasnt too annoying or rude have a good day lol.
My main complaint with Dial of Destiny is that is was just too long. Even then, cutting it down doesn't change the fact that this is the most dour Indy movie. Not as fun as the first 4 films.
I rate it around a 4.5/10
First!!
Damn, I like Nadia but now I know not to take recommendations from her lol. Although this movie is so universally hated that it is interesting to hear from someone who actually liked it.
5/10 for me
It was just a very average action adventure movie that got boring from the halfway point
I still think the whole series peaked with the first personally. Crystal Skull remains underrated. I’ll see this last one eventually, maybe skim it on streaming some months/years from now. These discussions seem more entertaining than anything else about this movie!
The series def peaked with Raiders, but each in the original trilogy is amazing in its own way, Crystal Skull is overhated and underrated tho not perfect, and if youre an Indy fan I highly recommend seeing Destiny in theaters as it was rlly joyful and enjoyable for lifelong fans as myself
@@esdraslopez4658 Crystal Skull really drags in the very long nighttime Soviet camp sequence imo, and then the dreaded monkeys. But aside from the monkeys I still like how it concludes. But even back then it wasn’t as fun watching an old Indy, and that was my main hang-up for this new “last” one. And from what I’ve heard my fears were realized - 90-yr-old Indy is apparently super not fun, kinda dour, and can only drive cars for extremely long and repetitive action scenes that lack good physical comedy. Throw in the fact that it over 2.5 hours and I’m gonna sit this one out and maybe catch a highlight reel. But that’s just me
i genuinely give it a 1 out of 10
Def a 6/10 for me but I think I ended up having to agree with Nadia on some points. I think the punching of Indy was more character growth moment for Helena. I was not bored but I could see why people might be. There was not as many set pieces as a typical Indy film.
She should have kneecapped him in the nuts. We don't need to see it on screen.
I’m agreeing with Nadia on this one. I wouldn’t rank it a 9/10 but it’s a good film.
i think it’s weird how brutal the deaths were, like there’s actual gore when the pilot gets speared in the plane, and in that opening scene you see the guy get mulched under the car tires. and antonio banderas just dies for no reason so they can reference the dynamic from last crusade with helena excited from the escape and indy not entertained, but it’s a way worse comedy beat with his friend having died. the movie really has no idea how it should kill people to land an indiana jones tone. it doesn’t involve tons of random civilians and allies to indy dying as the only onscreen kills. none of the main antagonists get a cathartic death scene. closest thing is mads michelson looking frantic before he dies, but you don’t even see him die. you just see his plane go down, flying right over the attacking romans and into panicked civilians. and those really poorly written bits where he doesn’t know the language of tangiers one second, but the next he knows how to get around, or the whole thing asking the second sidekick if he can fly a plane. the kind of shit that should be taken out when proofreading. all that plus the bad effect on the de aging and the dragging action sequences can’t even imagine where the hundreds of millions of dollars went. just a kind of weird and nihilistic movie. i can’t even imagine the view on women you have to possess to present helena as such a virtueless and miserable person just because she hadnt seen her GODfather since she was 12. 30 yr old woman so hung up over that that she just has no reverence or respect for anything is just weird. i get that she’s not supposed to be an exact copy of indiana jones but like that’s THE point of his character, that’s the only reason he survived any of the movies. she doesn’t even learn that from him or anything. they don’t even reconcile the fact that she feels so abandoned by him, he even keeps insisting that he’s got no one to go back for when she’s literally begging and crying for him to go back with her. guess indiana jones has autism or something, can’t understand very loud emotional cues. or moroccan arabic i guess. plus he drinks before the diving scene which is weird. lots of out of character stuff, the only way to continue from crystal skull (the perfect ending) is to rewrite the ending so it’s actually extra miserable. and then they just copy/paste it onto the back of this movie as if that makes up for anything. so weird.
I know people hated it but I really liked Crystal Skull. 8/10 for me. Haven't watched any other Indiana Jones movie in its entirety. I watched parts of Temple of Doom but didn't quite like it because of the villain being so comically tryhard evil and the way India was portrayed. I'll rate it after watching it fully.
The second movie is not so good.
@@stuntkojima I watched it fully. I rate it 5/10. Didn't like it.
Indiana Jones movies kinda stink in general
This film is miserable.
In my opinion
Indy 1: 9/10
Indy 2: 7.5/10
Indy 3: 9.5/10
Indy 4: 4.5/10
Indy 5: 6.5/10
I think James Mangold did a really great job, the only problem was Helena Shaw’s character writing. Mads was a lot of fun. The climax was very interesting with the time travel stuff, but I really really didn’t like the last scene. The best part was the first 20 min, reminded me of Last Crusade.
You are right, Nadia. Dial of Destiny is better than Last Crusade. For us who grew up loving Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom and Last Crusade became to silly almost Looney Toones level to end in that athrocious Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Going back to the classic adventure movie from the original one with Dial of Destiny has been a pure delightful experience. Second best of the franchise for me
What?
@@bencarlson4300 have you seen the wagons sequence or the planes one lately? They have more in common with a theme park ride or Who framed Roger Rabbit than the John Houston type of movie Raiders of the Lost Arc was
yeah man, that noose scene was right out of raiders. same with when they time travel to ancient greece. i loved when none of the villains had death scenes. this movie is totally on the level of a classic adventure movie, really a return to form away from such silly cartoonish camp, especially the bold choice to open with a 40 minute animated short film. all the gore and nihilism also really scratched the same itch as raiders especially, which was such a brutal film in its action. like the part where the guy gets run over by the truck? yeah in some way it’s even an improvement over raiders, if spielberg had the technology he definitely would have shown the guy get sucked under the tires and mangled against the undercarriage rather than just having a guy lay next to the truck and throw his arms up when it passes. way better for the tone of the film.
@@obscure.reference none of those moments were filmed in a "I guess I just shoot our own plane lol!" circus clown / Last Crusade style. Even the one mirroring that one (the anti aircraft battery in the train) was filmed as a belic movie, closer to Mangold taste for Sam Peckinpah westerns than any thing you can see in any theme park. The same with the guy impaled by the rods, Indy co workers being shoot by the CIA or the scuba diving with the eels, old 30s pulp magazine style. There is no Abbott and Costello style part, Temple of Doom, The Last Crusade and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull are full of them
@@DanielDaniel-wk1up God forbid there be any fun comedy moments in a lighthearted adventure film, right? connery didn’t even understand the directions indy was giving to him, he’s probably never fired a gun. you’re just complaining about mechanics of a scene with no actual criticism. what’s the problem with that? because raiders doesn’t have funny moments in the same vein? it literally does. you don’t think his fear of snakes is the exact same thing as that? the nazi burning his hand? like, half of the opening sequence is gags. spiders on sapito’s back, fucking up the sand replacement of the idol, boulder appearing. it’s the same shit. just different characters, who have different dynamics. marion herself is also constantly getting into trouble and all she really does actively is hit someone with a stick, which is definitely an “abbot and costello style part,” as you so eloquently put it. that whole sequence is. indy and the bad guy are both about to get shot while wrestling and they both move into cover together. but no. this is a gritty adventure film according to you.
nope, it’s not comparable to raiders. maybe more than the other films, but that’s because of its graphic nature more than any quality filmmaking. the reason spielberg doesn’t show graphic death in indiana jones is that they’re lighthearted adventure films. not because the technology was too limited, or his filmmaking too inexperienced. it’s because they’re lighthearted adventure films that don’t need graphic gore to make creative, satisfying deaths for its villains. instead, in this film, when we literally SEE the villains commit more heinous acts than we saw nazis do in the first three films combined, actually killing a number of civilians onscreen, they get little in the way of retribution. michelson’s arc is literally one of gaining sympathy for the pressure hitler was under. and he doesn’t have a death scene. because it’s such a stupid, powerless artifact that they never even attempt to explain. you know what the explanation for the lost ark is? GOD MADE IT. same with all the artifacts. except this one. so there’s no way for the villain to actually be defeated BY THE ARTIFACT. it’s just a stupid watch archimedes made, imbued with magic time travel shit for literally no reason. but yeah, just like raiders aside from that. eel scene is fucking stupid, literally just getting swarmed by eels in a lame underwater sequence that tries to be immersive and tense with zero tension or reason to care about what’s happening. “oh there’s eels? hope they don’t attack anyone!” and sure enough they do, and nothing fucking comes of it, they establish that his line is hooked on a corner and that the eels lock their jaws, and neither of these are visually communicated after they’re established. for literally no reason the eels just swim around and bite him a little. no consequence to him or the wetsuit. and when helena comes back to help him he just takes her hand and i guess his line phased through the entire top half of the boat? and then a random person just dies horribly, nobody makes any effort to save him or help him despite indiana jones even trying to help some enemies from horrific deaths, like the heavy in temple of doom. yeah, that’s just like raiders. and don’t get me started on antonio banderas or the black lady’s death scenes. ridiculous. poorly shot, poorly communicated, and mean spirited in a way that spielberg never was.
also “anti aircraft battery in the train” what? i know what you’re talking about, the opening scene, but you must recognize that’s the most obtuse phrasing. it took me like 5 minutes to decipher that. and it isn’t mirroring last crusade. it closer resembles the adventures of tin tin. what you say after that point is nonsense, “mangold taste for sam peckinpah westerns” as if that (like every action scene in the film) doesn’t go on 10 minutes too long and become completely repetitive. oh look! he’s walking through a fourth train car where nazis start to follow him! wow! things sure aren’t changing in terms of his situation! just like peckinpah!!! whole thing feels like a video game/theme park ride far more than any of the previous films. the only one that even comes close to what you’re describing is crystal skull, unless any fluid sequence of events is a “theme park ride” to you, as henry sr. accidentally shooting the tail of the plane is.
My rakings are:
1. Raiders (a cinematic masterpiece).
2. Last Crusade (amazing).
. . . .a huge gap. . . .
3. Dial of Destiny.
*Temple of Doom and Crystal Skull are unwatchable and don't make the list.
Haven’t seen it, but they missed a great opportunity to cast Mindy Kaling as Indiana’s successor, and carry on the franchise as Mindiana Jones.