Poor Things | Non Spoiler + Spoiler Review
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- My review of Poor Things directed by Yorgos Lanthimos and written by Tony McNamara starring Emma Stone, Ramy Youssef, Willem Dafoe and Mark Ruffalo.
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At the end of the book when we actually hear from Bella herself, it becomes very clear that most of what you just read was in fact a fantasy and the fantasy of a MAN nonetheless. And the whole story is really a critique on the male fantasy of a sexually liberated woman, rather than it is a story of an actual woman, liberated or not. The contrast between the real Bella, who spent her life educating women and writing pamphlets on reproductive health and the ‘fantasy Bella’ conjured up by the men who knew her, who are of course the ones who are given the platform to tell “her story” is a stark one. I haven’t seen the film yet but it seems that this crucial element may have been missed and /or left out.
I had read the synopsis of the book and thought that was where this film was going to go as well but it diverges greatly. The "male fantasy of a sexually liberated woman" becomes the central focus of the story and it never strays from that. I feel like if Yorgos had wrote the story himself, it would have followed the book more closely.
@@Alachia The "male fantasy of a sexually liberated woman" is a good way to put it. The book/real story is more of an examination of 'male fantasy' than an examination of 'liberated women', and Unreliable Narration is a huge part of how that is done. Take that away (as it seems it was done in the film) and you are left with nothing more than a trite (but interesting) male fantasy.
Forget the book, this isn't a book review or a real life person review. The character in the film was not meant to be the perfect portrayal of a realistic everyday woman. Its a woman who died, then had their unborn daughter's brain grafted into their skull. A minus zero year old baby thrust suddenly into an adult bodied existence. You want realism? This isn't the film for that! The lead role is a truly unique character. Emma Stone was brave and brilliant. You want to re-write the character to something photo-typical so that we can all remember that life is about pain and suffering? Emma Stone would stick with the current writer I imagine.
@@tommywaitsy Thanks for the suggestion I will consider it.
This would have made all the difference.
I’m glad I’m not the only person who felt this way. About half way through I turned to my partner and said, “This feels like a man’s idea of what it is to be a woman.” Then asked whether there was ANY woman on the creative team…
Yeah. It was written and directed by men..
In the book, that's the point. It's a critique of men's expectations vs the reality of women.
@@athenas.8588 I’ll need to read the book!I think the movie came off and has been being interpreted as being from the female perspective. At least that’s what I heard from the men around me after the showing I went and in a few of the reviews I’ve watched.
Said the same!
Screenwriter and director are men. Why no women in these roles if it's about a woman's experience?
It seems like other reviewers are giving the movie Barbie-like kudos for just saying women should be happy and get what they want, as if this were some kind of robust revolutionary program. It seems like people take this to be an important message, despite its infantilizing take on women's issues. It's all very "you go girl." And it's silly and dismissive in a way.
Amen
@@Alachia This film got really positive reviews though but not seen it yet , so will have to make my own opinion on it
personally i loved poor things but damn this the best review i’ve came across. i didn’t think about it the way you talk about it and your absolutely right with your criticisms. thank you this helped me think of the film with a wider scope. i love how in depth you explore the themes, so much better then most youtube reviewers who mostly all just regurgitate the same things.
I understand the criticism, but I would argue Bella's lack of oppression is the whole point. She's a woman who grew up without ever learning to diminish herself in any way. I believe the 'fish out of water' elements of the story weren't showed just for laughs. Notice how Bella only doesn't understand things in the world that would restrict her freedom and has no problem believing in things that would benefit her? I believe it's done deliberately to show how made-up the strict society rules are, for women especially. The feminists know that already, but not all people are feminists.
It's definitely true she would be put in her place in a minute in a real world. But do we really wanna watch a movie where a pure human being is stumped in the ground by reality? You've asked at some point is it meant to be a fantasy? Well, obviously, it is. You say it yourself. The costumes, the sets are so whimsical and colorful; this world was made for us to be amazed by.
And, like you, I was waiting the whole film for her luck to run out. In fact, the whole cinema I was in was holding their breath waiting for her to get in trouble and had a collective sigh of relief every time she didn't. I believe it was a deliberate choice of storytelling too. In the final scene, when I realized I could stop worrying for her, I felt pure joy I had never experienced before.
Not diminishing the importance of showing the real struggles we as women deal with in real life, there's a value in pure fantasy when women always win; men have theirs.
Well said!
The movie was embarrassingly childish. Your critique is spot on. What is the point here? She just goes for whatever she wants and always comes out on top. Teenage feminism.
Id like to know why literally every critic sidesteps the unbalanced relationship between the child-minded Bella and the lawyer guy when discussing this film.
I addressed it. Bella's mind is maturing at an accelerated rate. By the time she meets Wedderburn, she's already past puberty.
Because the film itself criticizes it...
I found this SO disturbing. I’ve been looking for this response everywhere. Sure, there might have been a sentence that explained away how Bella was technically not a child anymore, but the imagery, the mannerisms, the child like language is not conjuring in my mind anything but a child, and then she’s naked and orgasming?!? Like. WHAT. It’s a no for me, dog.
After exploiting it time and time again @@dimkilago2958
@@Alachiashe was still walking and talking like a child tho
I am so relieved about your detailed analysis of the movie. Found it very hard to find the words while other people are praising the movie, blinded by its aesthetic and "humour". Male Gaze in its finest form ...
This was the most reductive, candy coated, male-gaze glazed, story of female liberation I’ve ever seen. Gross. Hated it. Shocked that Emma as was producer and didn’t push for better crafting of a narrative. Nope. Not my Oscar pick at all.
After all the hype, I was disappointed in the film. Visually beautiful, and ambitious, yet this story of a woman's liberation was cliché-ridden and not satisfying in the end. Emma was put through her (naked) paces and Mark Ruffalo's role was one-note, with the F-bomb in every sentence. Surely his dialogue could have been more witty. The ending was too pat. I'm happy to see a review that's not a rave.
Honestly way too many of these comments are saying they don't like it cause of "feminism" or cause "Emma Stone too old" which are all clearly coming from men. The problem with this movie is that it isn't feminist at all. It is entirely from the perspective of the male gaze and is a hyper-sexualized infantalization of a woman's experience. We are never clearly given her mental age which is worrysome, and while I'm in no way a prude I absolutely hate how much sex is in this film. It feels pseudo-intellectual especially with how everyone that's defending this movie only has one argument. That being, "you clearly didn't see the movie" or "you didn't get the deeper meaning." I've seen way too many excuses for p3d0philia online for this movie and it's extremely scary. I agree with the sentiment that if this movie wasn't so pretty with such good actors that no one would've liked it. This is not a smart movie and is devoid of any meaningful themes honestly. I have experienced plenty of abuse in my lifetime unfortunately and this only felt like it glorified it. I feel like there were lots of parts that should have stayed serious instead of playing it for laughs. Just because it's a fantasy doesn't mean it can't have realistic elements or has to stay light and funny throughout. Anyways, I agreed with most of your review but wish you would've touched more on the infantilization of her character. Given that we only have her mannerisms to go off of we can only assume that she is still childlike or an actual child.
Emma Stone is like 35 going on 50. She’s aging like milk. 😂
@stealmycorpse you're literally proving my point. Also gross of you to view women as objects that expire
@@ms.melody6653 Says the stripper that objectifies herself.
@stealmycorpse yeah I'm allowed to have bodily autonomy. I'm done arguing with a misogynist
@@ms.melody6653 There’s nothing empowering about what you do. You are just a mere object for men’s pleasure. I hope one day you will realize your own value.
Agree and could not see any hint of female liberation in the movie 🤦🏻♀️
This review was SPOT ON. The liberation of a woman (young girl???) who didn't need to be liberated from anything, considering she had a lavish life, and the brain capacity of a *child*. Definitely not someone ready to, or needing to break free of the proverbial (and in this case, non-existent) shackles of oppression....I thought this was gratuitous, meandering, and quite frankly, pointless. The performances were fine. The story was...nonexistent. No conflict, no growth. Art direction/world building was flawless. BUT, it was its own entity, completely indifferent to the characters and the story being told. The direction was fine. Everything was "fine." But the fact that people are absolutely losing their minds over this is beyond me....Take out the "stunning and brave" sex, take out the visuals, and yeah, ya got nothing left. I give it a D. Yorgos let me down, just like Alex Garland, Ari Aster, and Quentin T. And yet, THIS, is one of the best of the best, according to critics and awards circuits?!?! Sad times...This is more proof that industry critics and awards institutions- for the most part- have abandoned substance, debth, and truly top-tier performance capability LONG ago. Now, most of what we have are cartoons, campaigns, and confections. A few years from now, no one will talk about this. Emma Stone: please don't win another Oscar for another "fine" performance in another subpar film....
Update: Aaaanndd she won....I would have preferred Sandra Huller. Even Lily Gladstone or Annette Benning. This is just sad that Emma has TWO, and Annette has none. The Oscars lose credibility every single year they go on. Done.
I noped as soon as you said toddler brain in grown woman's body
Her brain does accelerate and mature very fast. She's not a toddler by the time she discovers sexuality however I did a major ick when her "father" said the only reason he didn't have sex with her was because it required too much energy
YES. THANK YOU!!
"Poor Things" is more like "Rich Things" - that's brilliantly said 😊
We see that a lot from Hollywood these days.
Nah. I don't think the film is meant in any way to embrace a neo realistic view of poverty in old timey Europe.
The film is a fantasy. And I don't think it would be well served if Bella literally got syphilis- had her vajayjay turn smelly and disgusting - and then died. The End! 🤣
Yes, that is a realistic take on what would happen to a woman in a whore house, but that's not what Lanthimos wants his film to be about. This film is *about* the joy of furious jumping- and the power that comes from shamelessly embracing that joy in contrast to the rest of us "poor things." *Do you even get the meaning of the title?* For me this is Lanthimos best film since the Favorite as I find it more interesting than the 'dry humping' of some of his other works.
@@rrando726 But he does not go to the extreme to glorify prostitution, he maintains a critical point of view.
I couldn't agree more with the importance of the story behind a movie. A great review and breakdown, Alachia 👍👏
Sometimes movies are just not what we want them to be.
I know... I went in with too many expectation being a Yorgos film.
I love your reviews, even tho I don’t always agree with your points, but I love to hear them. Can’t wait to watch this myself.
Pan’s Labyrinth is laughing at this movie. 😄
I'm still traumatized from that film
Absolute masterpiece.
@@AlachiaOMGoodness. I feel the same way. I'm not the only one 😮.
I gotta say, saying that shes not oppressed when shes not allowed to leave her own house is wierd to me. And going on to say that yeah she has to have sex witj unnatractive men but look at her room! I would say these are two pretty big hardships she faces. Having sex with stinky gross men that she doesnt want to have sex eith and being trapped in her home are big issues
Prostitution is FAR from what's depicted in the movie. To her it's barely a chore to get through that grants her lots of money and free time.
Can we talk about how when Bella’s suitor (can’t remember his name rn) asks Godwin if he’s been sleeping with her, and he explains that he’s physically incapable of any sexual gratitude? That being his explanation as to why he wasn’t sleeping with her felt very telling to me
Wasn't his exact response that he didn't have the amount of watts it would take to get it up?? It was disturbing
This is an allegory, and you're criticizing it for lack of realistic consequences? (You are just like Harry the cynic)
You're disappointed because the direction of your expectation was wrong and you're missing the point.
The point was never about children, I don't even think it's simply about feminism or patriarchy, it's about general human condition, it's about a blank slate, that's not polluted by society norm, or preconceived notion, or the idea of self confining shame.
The fictional character Bella is merely a mirror to reflect and point out how ridiculous we are doing to ourselves.
I don’t agree with everything about this movie, but I did like it. In the end Ramy does briefly address VD with Bella. He asks her about being “tested.” If this movie addressed all the very valid points that you brought up then it would be a drama and not a dark comedy, demented fairy tale with varying lessons at the end (such as most fairy tails.)
Cannot wait for the sequel: rich things!
I understand when you wonder where all the pain is and all the reductive situations. Bella's former self committed suicide in order to be liberated which wipes the slate clean for this movie to take place. A woman needs to end her life, be recreated by a man, and have accelerated learning in order to have this pain free roadmap to self actualization...a fantasy by definition. The lack of struggle is the fantasy....hence the pain comes when the movie ends, the lights turn on, and you return to reality. The struggle is not on the screen....its when you return to reality. Perhaps the emotion you feel for all of its shortcomings in your review is a possible intention from Yorgos. With that said, I sat back and enjoyed it for what it was...
Consider it a horny feminist version of Frankenstein, just like Barbie is a pre pubescent take on feminism from the perspective of little girls playing with dolls, which can viewed nostalgically by 'some' grown women.
Bingo
Self actualization = prostitution, gotcha
If you like the Filippou collabs there's another coming titled "Kind of Kindness". It has actually finished filming but they're not promoting it yet because of "Poor Things".
I'm excited to see Filippou's return.
I think that film's point was not a Bella's LIBERATION, but Bella's life EXPLORATION.
The difference between exploration and liberation, is that in exploration you are not oppressed by someone in order to be liberated from.
In my view, the film's biggest sin is that it was created by solely men (although Emma Stone was added part of the production, but as far as I know not in the creation of the film)
exactly, i’m not really sure why everyone seems to think the singular theme is “liberation”. it really isn’t a feminist film, and i don’t really think it’s trying to be, it just got wrapped up in that conversation because of the sheer quantity of feminist film and critique coming out now. this is a movie about exploration, self-discovery, and the balance between raw freedom and societal standards.
Exploration of.. what? She could have had hundreds of experiences but instead she ends up in a brothel declaring herself a socialist.
@@Jengowolf Because there are several times where they are hinting towards it with the over-the-top sexist patriarchal views of men in it (the lawyer, her ex-husband, the madame in the bordelle speaking about men liking being violent to women) and her responses to that behaviour. Then her coming back home on her own terms (so going from a prisoner to a well-respected guest) and also deciding herself whether she wants to marry the guy all fit better into a "liberation" arc than an "exploration" one. The exploration type of arc mostly doesn't deal with general societal problems or topics, at least not that blatantly. I do think that there was exploration which led to liberation in her story and it was written to be that way.
Another day, another great video. You truly covered all the bases of what we could have gotten but also what we were given instead. The movie is truly wasted potential, I will definitely watch dogtooth after this video!!! can't wait for your next video
Thanks for your reviews. Your analysis is deep, incisive, easy to understand and relatable. I first came across your channel when I saw a review of The Creator. This movie also disappointed me although i couldn't put my finger on why. You nailed it and suggested "Humans" as a better alternative and you were so right! I was interested in Poor Things because it looked to be the kind of weird quirky kind of movie I usually like. I still might see it, but to be forewarned is to at least avoid disappointment. Thanks again.
Legenda em português por favor
Saudades de quando a comunidade podia adicionar legendas... Eu legendava muito conteúdo feminista/comentários de filmes por hobby mesmo e hoje em dia o CZcams tirou essa ferramenta das pessoas, só o próprio CZcams pode fazer isso 😢
Sim, queria muito 😥
I think Bender did this better in that Futurama episode.
Excuse the grammar, I’m writing this in a hurry and barely have time to reread. I have a lot to say. I don’t even know if i will fit it in here. I’ll start here. I disagree with your criticism of the story. I entered this story as if it was a fantasy. I’d heard a lot of comparisons to the Barbie movie, as well as the clear parallels that the story has to Frankenstein and the Book of Genesis, both works of fiction. I never saw the story as Bella (Emma Stone) being a character needing to BE liberated. She WAS liberated when she committed suicide. Her behavior from the inciting incident and onward were all actions of liberated person. She is no longer a person, like you and I, who’s been raised to shut up and accept her reality. She’s constantly questioning, pushing back and experimenting without shame. Her story is about constantly coming into conflict with people trapped in systems, rules, and institutions who are trying to control her. From her father, who is literally called “God” and known as her creator. She is pushed to marry and be with her own Adam, brought to her by God because it’s all apart of the experiment. Can she raised to be “a real girl”. Women, back then, were expected to be married. She runs away to be with Mark Raufallo, who is interested in her due to her innocence and ignorance. He can use her for sex. He eventually starts developing feelings and becomes love sick, while trying to fulfill his own societal role of having a wife. As Bella continues to discover, she refuses to be held captive by the institution that hold back all the characters in the movie. You said something about how the movie says that women liberation is held back by women simply just not asking to be liberated. I found that an oversimplified explanation of what the film is saying. People give institutions power and liberation only comes when people are willing to sacrifice and push for change. Think about how the United States gained its independence. Through the people wanting it. Bella’s isn’t ASKING to be liberated. She’s just choosing to live liberally and abandoning people (each who represent these institutions and ideas) behind. As for this movie not being “as bitter” as other Lanthimos’ films and that’s true. And I get being disappointed. However, just because it’s not the same as his other doesn’t mean it’s bad. It sounds like there is plenty other things you didn’t like about the film, but I do think a second viewing could be a more enlightening experience for you now that you know what you’re getting.
women who find them in a time and society where they are oppressed aren't just limited by their inability to choose to live liberally. that's my point. Where are the real obstacles. A lot of women of the time weren't even allowed to leave their houses without an escort. They weren't allowed to vote. They weren't allowed to inherit. The movie is pure fantasy. you're right. it's an absolute fantasy that a woman had the choice to live liberally without consequence. Not even one obstacle trying to get into med school as a female? She just happens to find a family that allows her to do as she wishes without disowning her? she just luckily got out of being genitally mutilated because she eavesdropped? she had time to study for medical school in a brothel? The world created is by a man who has no idea what the world looks like in the haze of obstacles females face trying to live "liberally".
@@Alachia great point, I can see how that really can turn people off by the entire story. I’m going to watch again later this weekend. I had similar issues with the “Killers of the Flower Moon” story too. I still enjoyed both films.
I don’t think Bella has gone through this journey without any abuse or suffering regardless of that was explicitly shown in the film, I think she was just unaware of what abuse was or what any of it means in general from an adults POV. And this whole thing is seen from her very subjective perspective.
Every piece of art takes the narrow view of its creator. The movie you were hoping for was very different from what this movie might be. Your viewpoint is welcome, but won't be embraced by every viewer. Your last sentence said it all "it was not the flavor I was looking for."
I felt that way about May December. I respect the acting but am suspicious of the films intent. It seems to have no other function than the exploit a famous and real life case of child sexual abuse - while.....distancing itself from said exploitation with the Natalee Portman character in order to throw the dogs off the hunt so to speak.
I really appreciate your reviews. You seem to find films others don't talk about which is refreshing. Probably won't see this, though my take on what you have shared....it's like this is Frankenstein meets Disney Princess. And had it been subverted later in the story, perhaps this could have been really great. I don't mind positive movies, but the positivity has to make sense and not to be afraid of the darkness that brings one into light. Thanks again
Alachia, I absolutely loved the aspects that you praised about the movie. I’m so glad your review exists because you vocalized the internal feelings I had about the story and the world. I think because I’m not a woman, I am a lot more forgiving of this aspect, but it definitely is an issue with this film. Among Lanthimos’s films, this definitely feels the most contrived and has the worst ending.
I saw this movie couple days ago. I did enjoy it but the plot seemed not to go anywhere. I am curious about the book now.
So much nuance in the book, well of course it's a book but especially after knowing the truth about Candle's perspective section. Kinda ironic that there are two versions of Bella in the book, Bella who was given freedom to explore her childlike innocence, and Victoria who was sheltered and gone through a lot of trauma since childhood but BOTH were still manipulated for being a woman AND still sought sexual liberation by the end. Then knowing what happened to Victoria in those compiled documents by the end, it will changed everything you've watched in the movie.
I enjoyed it. I saw it as a Frankenstein movie coming from a different angel but having the common theme of experiencing the world for the first time from an adult like perception. I also understood from the surreal fantasy setting not to take the characters actions too seriously and with a bit of dark humor.
I totally agree with you 💯 %👍🏽 👏
The endless fantasy and the zero consequences are in fact the point. Bella Baxter doesn't give a damn what the other characters, or you, or I, think. That is the liberation; one that is not necessarily female liberation. "She herself has never suffered, and probably will never, suffer!" Good. You should ask yourself why you so much wanted to see her suffering. Because: reality? Well, ok.... And, of course, our thirst for traditionally satisfying (Judeo-Christian) drama. Most of our fantasies (and I'm not really talking about sexual fantasies here) are trimmed and focused by society. Barbie is such a fantasy. In this way, Poor Things is an experimental what if. This is why it will continue to divide opinion and it will endure. This is also why it is looks the way it does, rather than a Dardenne Brothers film.
Moreover, the film has never advertised itself as a polemic of female liberation (perhaps Emma Stone has said this, I don't know). That has been the assessment of mostly male film critics. Of course, in our times of feminism in a highly capitalist world, the marketers for Poor Things are quite happy to let that idea flourish to get bums on seats.
Can’t agree more! Do you have a Letterboxd account I can follow lol
@@amasia48 Thanks! Sorry, I don't have an account.
Pop culture detective has a great video on Born Sexy Yesterday as a theme. This film seems to fall into that category as well. Eek. Great review!
Have you watched it? The film definitely doesn't fall into this category.
Born sexy yesterday is about men fantasizing about sexy virgins pretty much. It has nothing to do with this movie.
The problems didn't have to do with the relationship dynamic aspect.
The problem of this movie is the presentation of "liberation and feminism" and the lack of reprecussions for the protagonist's choices, making it seem as if the obstacles for women were only mental.
Takes on feminism are always divisive.
I don’t know the exact meaning of “born sexy yesterday” as a trope, but the sexy-literal-baby aspect of this film is insane. Like, we find out that she is has recently been implanted with the brain of a fetus, then we see her orgasm. Then there’s a shot of her in clothing that resembles diapers, then we see her orgasm again. SUPER ick.
@@theo7371 The trope deals with the infantilization of women. Usually women who are child-like in mind set but physically adults. It's not necessarily tied with virginity, but virginity is often associated with youth, so it's related but not necessary seeing as many characters falling under the trope eventually have sex. Seeing as Bella is a literal baby trapped in a woman's body it does indeed fall into the Born Sexy Yesterday trope as in addition to a child-like mentality she is an actual child.
The problems in the movie showed a lot of men sexualizing a young Bella who was mentally a child, with one assaulting her and then pursuing a sexual relationship with her and the other trying to marry her when she could barely form fully sentences and communicate enough yet (early developmental stages).
I feel like a huge problem was how sexualized she was, and in general how entitled to her body ALL of the men in the movie felt (God, ex-husband, love interests, etc.)
As a greek I am very proud of Lanthimos' success, although some other greeks hate his films, and I feel like this mainstream Hollywood success couldn't have happened without Mcnamara in the script. Like the "favourite" being nominated for so many Oscars. His use of a more normal language certainly makes the films accessible to a wider audience. Because he's a native English speaker.
I agree that his work with Efthimus was less accessible but that's what I loved so much about it. It didn't bend to the Hollywood narrative. But I get that directors have to grow and adapt to succeed. I'm looking forward to his next film where he collaborates with Efthimus again.
I think you summed up pretty much all mainstream art in a neoliberal world.
Great video!!! Very deep, Alachia! I haven't seen the film & I'll have to think about what you said! I'm emotionally preparing myself to watch the movie. lol
OMG Alachia... as always you are indeed a very wise Queen. I have not see the film but just going by the trailer something just kept telling me "IDK why but this just seems so pretentious, like a group of very rich Hollywood friends got together to 'work' on a project to pad themselves on the back! And of course they were just given a bunch of money to do so while traveling and staying at all kinds of fancy places for a very EXHAUSTING 3-5hrs shoot day"
And your critique is so wisly compressed into a word that applies to the idea/story, the film, the lead casts and creators, that word being CONSEQUENCES! I'm sure they didn't go through any of the real hardships that involve getting a project approved, just like our main character, they just got everything they wanted like, just like Emma (does she even have to try or do the best thing immediately fall on her lap... does she even have a pmsonality?
The final non-consequence, if this film tanks or doesn't even make back half of its money, they will still get all those so important pads on the back in the form of BS awards/nomination. They will still be filthy rich they will still get all the money the want for their next project even if this flops (I can't believe they glorified prostitution like that 😧).
At the beginning of the movie Victoria jumped off a bridge, even privileged upper class women still get oppressed by the patriarchy. Bella pushed boundaries and got her independence, how is it not liberating? Just because there’re women still oppressed and suffering, one liberated woman is totally meaningless? You’d rather see her suffer? You are like the cynical character on the boat in the movie. Bella wants to improve the world and reduce suffering. This is different from the girl boss message, she didn’t want to exploit other people. What’s the alternative? Make everyone suffer equally until heaven comes to earth? This movie was made for modern audiences, we can have enough protection to enjoy sex as much as we want without too many consequences. How many of us really embrace it?
My wife & I saw this movie recently, and we don't yet have a firm grasp on it. There's SO MUCH content with which we're deeply uncomfortable that we kinda think that's the point--that, to (maybe) be a bit pretentious, the "text" of the film is only valuable insofar as an audience member's experience of it. Or, put differently, the film is only half of the art--the viewer is just as much "the art."
I believe it's purposefully provocative, and that the intention is to cause the viewer to question their relationship with the content.
But I could definitely be wrong--it might truly just be An Aesthestic providing arthouse cover-up for something exploitative.
So, we have a kinda hard time summing it up, and also a hard time recommending it. Like, I can state a series of events that happened, but I'm not convinced that's exactly what the movie is "about."
...I feel like I'm just talking in circles, but hopefully something semi-coherent has come of this 😅
Criticizing the film for being a fantasy is kinda funny. Bella’s actual life seems quite easy in this film cause it’s the sense of discovery. Almost like Alice in Wonderland. Although she does fear, she does learn about the people around her and how she is abused. So I don’t think it’s really fair criticism
This is similar to that Marylyn Monroe movie. They think they’re doing one thing meanwhile any normal person can see the whole thing is inappropriate and problematic at best!
THANK YOU for this. Every review has been glowing so far presenting this as a masterpiece, but I found that for all its apparent and technical beauty, and great performances, the film is at best counterproductive when it comes to representing womanhood, and at worst utterly exploitative. And you are right there is no story, nothing nuanced or deep. It is posing as a meaningful movie, self-satisfied. I was so sad after watching it, I wanted to love it. It's great to hear nuanced review.
I really wanted to love it. I've watched a lot of women who rely on sexuality as identity or as a tool spiral into darkness so I think it really affected me seeing it portrayed as a primary tool for Bella's growth and success.
@@Alachia it is also a really sad because I compared it immediately in my mind with the mess that happened with The Idol and (re)presentation of self actualization through the use of bodies through aesthetic (lolita) lenses - which ends up counterproductive because it's so very reductive. It's interesting that women film makers have chosen cannibalism to represent women's hunger rather than exposing soft core porn on screen. A lot of people appeared to love it though.
I think it might be easier to accept the fantasy if you've never seen or don't know the consequences of being so reductive about female sexuality.
@@Alachia Maybe the book was different, but I don’t think this movie was supposed to mainly be about feminism or womanhood. I think it’s more about being liberated from a sheltered life (as contradictory as that sounds). It’s about learning about the world, the joys of it, but most importantly the horrors of it. Bella didn’t need to experience the horrors herself, she just needed to see that they exist. This leads to Bella wanting to have a meaningful life, to help people. She grows wiser having understood that not everything is a fun, wild adventure. Still, she feels helpless from her privileged corner of the world. She does everything and anything to try to understand herself and the world better, including the job at the brothel and even going back to her old life. The power is that she can empathize without having to experience suffering herself and do everything she can to grow into a wiser human being because of it. There’s not a moment where she wishes to stay ignorant. We all should do the same.
I feel very conflicted about Poor Things. Bella's approach to life was honestly very interesting. It made me wonder about how much of ourselves derive from childhood. Still, the theme of liberation surrounding it felt so surface level. I'm not even pissed about the prostitution part, but her giving to the poor & going on her liberation journey did. I don't understand what she learned. It's just that the film try to showcase Bella as an icon, but she still live in her bubble. She is free by the end, but she still live in an oppressed system rule by men. The ending made me feel empty and I really needed to search for a female opinion just to understand my own emotions.
I kind of feel like it would have been just as uncomfortable and exploitative if she was subjected to sexual assault in the brothel as well as perpetuating reductive narratives about consentual sex work. and I'm also a little uncomfortable myself with the idea that she should have been forced to "face consequences" for the sex she did desire to have because that would, to me, reinforce anti-feminist sex negative attitudes. the point of a fantasy world is to be able to isolate variables of our real world to create interesting "what if" scenerios and to me this movie didn't feel like it had an agenda or was trying to be a libertation movie, but allowed me personally to explore my own discomfort as a neurodivergent person who was adultified as a teen and has struggled to understand and adhere to societal expectations of women and delt with men trying to take advantage. I really appreciated that it allowed her to find her way and define herself because it gave me hope. A lot of women suffer in similar ways, but suffering isnt what defines femininity and its absence of certain elements of patriarchy and oppression didnt make its depiction ring hollow to me.
I don’t completely agree with this perspective but I think this is really interesting and will be thinking about it some more. The problem for me is that the movie draws parallels to real women’s sexual liberation, but in the absence of any discussion of any negative consequences or suffering at all, I feel like the parallels don’t hold up and feel almost kind of insulting to the struggle.
Like if in that world, there’s no negative consequences to having sex, what’s she being sexually liberated from? What’s the point of showing her having all that sex? Why is she still depicted as childlike in between very adult, porn-like sexual interludes?
What’s it trying to say about real world women and our sexual freedom or lack thereof?
I’m concerned that the movie actually doesn’t have much to say at all.
Great review. I agree 100%
I can see how you came to your conclusion but, being a male, I saw this film differently. I enjoyed the movie, but again I can see how you saw it instead. Bella's time in the brothel without any worry at all of STDs or pregnancy was one thing that I thought wasn't covered at all. That and the fact that she was probably no more developed mentally than a six-year-old was something that I kept in the background. I did enjoy the film, but there were areas that I didn't consciously consider while doing so.
Agree with the comments except "incredibly unique". Something is either unique or it isn't.
This movie strangely brought to mind "Dogville," although it falls short of achieving the same impact. It seems like it aspired to reach the level of "Dogville," but recognized the need to captivate the audience with visually stunning scenery to tell its story effectively at such length. I have plenty more to discuss about this film, but let's leave it at that for now.
Also, I’d love to hear your thoughts on how Dogtooth cleansed your palette. 😂that F’ING movie 🤦🏻
Oh, I almost forgot to mention, in comparison to the book this movie is adapted from, well, it's like a breath of fresh air - a whopping 10000% less misogynistic. Not sure if that's much of a selling point, but there you have it!
Thank you! Yes, zero consequences - I thought when is she going to get pregnant, have a baby, or an abortion?
My main issue was that I never saw her acting as an adult woman. She seemed to be perpetually a child, and men having sex with her was like child abuse to me. The way the lawyer "tickles" her made me want to barf. Unfortunately I stayed too long, (being a good girl myself, because I was on a date. Nuts, huh?) but did leave before the end.
Also, the idea of a fetal brain in an adult woman's body was really misogynistic to me - man-made, mansplained, manipulated. I thought maybe the twist ending would be that she found love, kindness, and intimacy, but I read that's not how it ended ;)
No comment on your other criticisms cause I've not seen the film, but I thought she can't have a baby anymore?
Yeah, her "mental age" and the fact that she spends the movie (at least what I saw) acting like a toddler made me extremely uncomfortable, especially during scenes where she "works on herself" or where adult men (with adult brains) tried to have sex with her. Literally could not see it as anything BUT taking advantage/child abuse, had to leave the theater midway because I was so disgusted.
Do you understand satire? the whole first half of the film is quite literally deconstructing the "sexy baby" trope. This review (your comment and the CZcamsr) is missing the point - the film is not about exploring women's liberation; it's exploring men's obsession with controlling and owning women and the emasculation due to a woman simply learning. It's also a deeply philosophical film - each stage of Bella's life is an exploration of a different philosophical system - hence the Madame who whispered in her year after Bella described essentially, Nihilism "You're in it, go further."
You didn't stay until the end of the film, yet critiqued it because you "never saw her acting as an adult woman". Do you think about what you write before typing or do thoughts fall out of your brain at will?
You're correct. Good critique, but using the the anatomical baby brain to serve the plot is very problematic. I write short films, and it's very easy to solve that problem. The director did a choice. An immoral weird one.
@@caitlinburo6557 oops, a thought! Where the fuck did that come from?
I'll watch the film to form my own opinion cause after your negative review of Killers of the Flower Moon, I wasn't excited to watch the movie. After I watched it however, I loved it and so far its my favourite movie of the year.
it's ironic that it's written by a man yet the movie is clearly pushing neo feminism themes (non-sexuel exclusivity to men, sexual liberation, being free of the male toxicity..)
I just finished watching the film and I honestly thought it was written, or at least cowritten by a woman because of how many modern feminist ideas/themes were present.
I'd be curious what a more faithful "female liberation" film would be if this one was so "male gaze" codes.
Finally an honest review that sees the movie for what it really is, a whole lot of fluff without substance. And I think all these people who say it’s a great film are just sheep who think just because it’s Yorgos Lanthimos it’s a high intelligence and profound piece of art, and if they think that if they were to recognise that the story is actually shit then other’s will think them incapable of appreciating the artistic expression, but really it’s not really saying anything - it’s like the Barbie movie, it’s light entertainment and forgettable- nothing more, nothing less
The ending is gruesomely tragic. The reality of the film comes crashing down with the ending which recalls thr beginning.
Everything that happens in 'Poor Things' is intentionally opposite of reality.
Its almost meant to be viewed in the negative.
Bella Baxter is lobotimized upon and commits self removal Everything that happens in the movie is obviously tragically that which canNOT be.
Its heartbreaking because we know exactly that all that happens is that which we know full well cannot be.
The start and ending of the film act as parentheses.
The "Poor Things" are the viewers like me who suffered watching the movie!!!
As much as I love ur take, I have to disagree. I thought it was original weird and fun without getting too deep. Stay sweet love.
Best review I've seen of this movie. Great job love your analysis. Subscribed.
Her face while wearing the Lion's "wig" said more than entire books... XD... For some reason those eyes looked like she was saying "Why are we still here? Just to suffer?"
Now in regards to the movie itself... I miss actually crazy movies... On of my fav movies was Science of Sleep (if you ever watch it, make it be the original version in french), where directors are allowed to be creative and depict impossible worlds and characters... There's plenty of room for mundane "relateable" stories, thrillers, all sort of settings and genres... But i really miss "styles"... Like back then you could tell a Michael Gondry movie was made by him, regardless of how good it was... Same with Yorgos, or even bigger names like Del Toro or Tarantino... I miss that XD
Yorgos' film is special because it makes people feel different things. When I read reviews, everyone had their own opinion about the movie. People watch it in their own way and they see it differently than the person who made it.
Side question Alachia: 1:39 this is a trope, women "figuring out who they are" which almost inevitably means, or is linked to, just plain sleeping around. Is that what you meant? Or is there really some sort of unrecognized mass phenomenon where women "don't know who they are" until they they get with 10-1,000 men?
Figuring things out is not always about sexuality. It can just be seeing the world outside your four walls. Meeting other people, experiencing different cultures etc. They just chose the sexual formula .. I assume because it fits the comedy better
@@Alachia But figuring out "things" vs. figuring out "who you are" is quite different. I never questioned who I was when I didn't know what to do, even when I was a kid. And I certainly didn't redefine myself when I traveled the world or when I met different peoples for the first time. No, this "figuring out who I am" thing seems very specifically, and inextricably, linked to women making certain choices in their sex lives. And the heart of the question is not about films, as you can probably gather: most women HAVE to make choices today in that regard as to who they are, with easy money available through obvious means (of, cams) and less obvious means (twitch, fb). The consequences of easy paths, of course, are that you may not get what you realized you wanted all along in the end. I think this is one topic women SHOULD discuss instead of the constant "go girl you deserve EVERYTHING" gaslighting today's society, media, and especially agenda feminists, keep ramming down everyone's throats.
Poor Things is Anti-Barbie.
Bella is a better Weird Barbie.
Ken is more likeable than Duncan tho.
Swingy is a darker version of Ruth Handler.
Godwin is more relatable than Will Farrell’s CEO.
Both have cool surreal set designs too. 🙃
Omg! I wish this movie was playing near me 😔 guess I'll just have to settle for the book until it comes out here
I think it's going into wider release next week
Thumbs up for Daisy
I am just pissed when they literally discuss nothing about real women's experiences but promoted the film as 'a feminist film' and 'a story of a woman's sexual liberation'😅
I only saw Dogtooth though heard great things about the Lobster. It's pretty insane.
Thak you !!!! In the end of the movie, I had a feeling that i was suppoused to enjoy it, but i felt hollow, like everything was a beautiful tale to inspire a little girl to grow into a woman, but without the harsh reality that comes with that. And the limited relations that Bella have with other women was realy botthering me, like, no one around to make Bella question her life style ? Or her freedon in face of other woman ?? I couldn't pin point my issue with the movie besides that feeling of just have whatched a fairy tale ... The reality now is depressing ...
Well, that is why it's a fantasy/comedy?
I guess so... but I think it wasn't what I was expecting from a Yorgos film.
This movie is supposed to be a serious statement on a woman's path to empowerment and self-actualization.
@@maryjaneshoe-fm4yr Self discovery and actualization, not everything with a female lead has to be about liberation under patriarchy.
Daisy was barking @ me the other day for disliking the film Saltburn..
lol!
I agree with your review, I dont think it was that nice for prostitutes then or now or ever. I thought the movie was good but its hard for me to get over the fact that she was a baby having sex.
I can sum up my thoughts. More zany then entertaining. More beautiful than substantive. Ruffalo was phenomenal. All the acting was great. I thought the actress who played the whorehouse madam was a standout. You can see why it's a hit and popular with critics and audiences.
THANK YOU!! Saw it last night and was disappointed. Can’t believe the amount of raving reviews, to me it was a bizarre display of pseudo feminism disguised in pretty set dressing and costumes and actors.
Another reason I largely disliked it was how they took the born sexy yesterday trope to the EXTREME and not only did that make it more disgusting and disturbing with every sex scene but the sex scenes were obviously porn fantasies created for the male gaze, and then their reason for that was because she was empowered felt largely disingenuous and excusatory. I am baffled how this is being hailed as a feminist marvel by critics. I am very intrigued to read the book now to see how it was meant to be.
It reminded me of a story that could have been written by Anais Nin, an erotic fantasy completely safe from the real world.
While there is certainly a need to talk about these topics with gravitas, as you say, there is also a time to let go and allow oneself to be immersed into a fantasy world where we can act upon impulse and have freedom from consequence. Film for me is a form of escapism from a world that feels dark and overwhelming. I am looking forward to enjoying the film for what it is. Am 2/3 of the way through the book and it is unlike anything I've ever read. I have heard that the film's script is rather loosely based on the book, but am interested to see what they've done with Bella in the screenplay.
Disagree with "Past Lives" review: *write an essay
Agree with "Poor Things" review: *head nod and a "yep" 😅
Seriously though, it's unfortunate I have no interest in this movie. I first saw "Dogtooth" a little over a decade ago when I still paid for cable and it was on Showtime. Thought it was an odd yet intriguing mindfuck. Watched "The Lobster" a few years after that and decided to look up the director and keep an eye out for his work. Then made sure to see both "Killing of a Sacred Deer" and "The Favourite" in theaters and absolutely love both of these films.
Don't know if I've just changed as a person since then but a movie about consequence free pleasure just isn't appealing to me. And maybe I'm becoming a prude or just biased from my experience with the current dating market lol but I don't think this is the kind of message we should be celebrating right now
Great review nonetheless, I feel less crazy not being excited about this movie.
I am not surprised that so many of the glowing reviews of this movie are from men. As a woman even hearing this concept makes me sick to my stomach.
The Lobster is a phenomenal movie - the kind of movie I wish more people were able to make. Top shelf.
incredible how understanded that film was. Very few film makers have that kind of restraint.
I love Colin Farrell in dark comedies. I also loved Banshees of Inisherin.
Banshee's could have used more furious jumping, in my opinion.
I cut off my fingers. You kill my donkey.
Jeezus guys - just fk or something.
Im glad another person in this world saw what I saw. Thank you for your great review. I couldn’t unsee the fact this infant brain was having sex very young. The fact that men liked her like that. It was a male fantasy about women’s liberation for sure. Not a feminist empowerment work of art. None of that was there. And FGM which was brought up through the end, felt like justifying why is it being done to little girls in parts of the world. (Eliminating their sexual desires) over sexualizing little women… ughhh I just felt so sick walking out of theater. But what’s more scary than anything else, is how this film has been praised by a large audience…. And many people disagree or even hate me for seeing the truth in this film. Big disappointment….
I totally agree. I have seen nothing but positivity for this film and it unnerved me to my core. The fact this movie is 90% porn and we are never given an actual mental age for Bella is disturbing. Also the scene where the 2 boys are forced to watch their father sleep with Bella is so weird. I cannot stand this movie for the fact that I know that plenty of men have this fantasy about women being infantalized.
I completely agree. Please keep sharing your opinion 👏🏾
@@ms.melody6653that was the point of the movie. You are supposed to be disturbed about her relationships with the men. It’s a critic on how men prefer their women to be helpless and infantile. That’s why they don’t get along with her as she becomes more intelligent, independent, and enlightened. Those men were clearly the villains of the story. It’s not praising that behavior whatsoever.
Should win best costume and art direction...but "Barbie" will win. Watch the BAFTA's or Cannes or Critic's Choice for serious awards, imo. Good review. Goat-ducks are scary.
that would be a shame if Barbie wins best costume. I mean, if the award was going to what Margot wore on the red carpet, I'd say that would be more fair but in the film itself... no way.
Barbie which I have seen now that it is available on streaming seems to me to be almost wholly an exercise is pseudo feminist virtue signaling. And the music was horrible. Rather watch Bella or Wednesday dance any day. It really is a doll commercial masquerading as a satire.
I agree. The optimism of Poor Things landed VERY poorly with me.
Like its protagonist, the film literally prostitutes itself to the audience. It gives privileged bourgeois liberals the self-serving fantasy that they want, in exchange for nothing more than the cost of admission.
The fact that it's been interpreted as an anti-capitalist film is nothing short of hilarious.
...which makes me wonder: is it possible that the hypocrisy is intentional? Is Lanthimos trolling us all? Is Poor Things simply his most deadpan satire to date? I doubt it, but I can't entirely rule it out.
I appreciated the world building and technical aspects of the film but at some point the film became dull and less funny, this was from the moment she comes back from her escapes in Lisbon. Also, I didn’t enjoy the ending which left me with a “is that it” feeling. Where was the substance?
Review of the year. It will probably win, BEST PICTURE!
I know it will..
Yes, watch Dogtooth, Alps, and Nimic for the Yorgos mood you crave!
I think they might be forecasting virtual reality. You're complaining about that there is no harsh reality in this film, but the harsh reality comes when you take your visor off and your neural sleeves and you're left in your own shitty apartment like everyone else. What a let down.
Bella is desirable so everyone tries to pleas her, make her happy, what if she was unattractive or less attractive, how would people act? That makes me think this movie sends message that being fuckable is the most important thing in life, also Bella being child-like and Ruffalo liking her more because of that, Pedo thing
Some really shallow sour takes in my opinion. Poor things indeed.
I kept wondering if she didn't speak like a child and demanded all the things she did, if reviewers would have said she was too feminist and "woke"... It's like they knew if she spoke like a child, it would be more endearing... Whereas when grown women speak out, it's considered "nagging"
Nice review, but i have to say I disagree, of course Im a man so take this with a grain of salt lmao, but I find that Yorgos didn't want this to be a feminist fantasy about how women are liberated through sex/sex work , rather I think he points out the shallowness in that belief, I think its SUPPOSED to be this mans idea of what a woman is like. His films as you know are almost always set in a kind of fantasy world, supernatural and non normal things happen in almost all of them but the characters seem to ignore this, accepting it as if it is completely normal, I think this is the case with Poor things too, I dont think he romanticizes what Bella or anyone is doing, i think he want to put you in a world where he give you the facts of what is happening and tells you to figure things out yourself, he doesn't want to have a concrete message by the end. At least that's how I saw it
"In what fantasy world ... ?" How about in a work of fiction . . . fantasy/science fiction, no less!
Absolutely. This film is science fiction and fantasy - where unrealistic events nonetheless provide commentary on reality - you know - like....Frankenstein.
Just saw this film and it took me a while to actually get into it but towards the middle I succumbed to the fantasy & didn’t hate it. I guess I just accepted the non suffering liberation angle cuz she was a cute skinny white woman. And in society isn’t that currency?
*Poor Things vs. Barbie*
Barbie is an ironic take on women playing with toys.
Poor Things is an ironic take on men toying with women.
This is why the former appeals more to women - and the later more to men.
For me it's no contest as Barbie needs to hit a lot harder in order to be taken seriously - meanwhile I can't 'have fun' with the toys - which is what 90% of the popularity of the film is about - it's an unironic celebration of childhood and doll play for women and girls. I have this on HBO but it took me a week to get thru it. (the music to me was fking dreadful)
In contrast - I've seen Poor Things twice *in theaters* and regard it as the years best film.
Sure the film sees Bella thru the male gaze - I know - I can relate most to Duncan in the film..... but that's not the same thing as saying that it is uncritical of that perspective.
Martin Scorsese made an entire career out of men who gaze at women (Taxi Driver - Raging Bull) - but unlike Lanthimos - he often refused to allow the women to have anything to say at all.
He had Oscar winner Anna Paquin - for 3 hours - and she has zero dialogue or agency in the film.
Ask yourself if Paquin would have preferred to play Bella instead of [I can't even remember her name] from The Irishman.
After listening to this review I realized one thing:
Never have Alachia do the eulogy at your funeral.
"He was a nice guy... but he never tipped and always left remains on the toilet seat. He gets a C-."
Fantasy without the pain, without the reality. I hate to say this sexist thing, but it would have been a better film if Greta Gerwig or Ava DuVernay had directed it and it was a pretty package to hide possible trauma. Thank you. Lanthimos is overrated.
Greta gerwig definitely would've been a better choice. Really any woman giving input would've been better. They left out a lot of important things from the book that showed its a sexualized male fantasy and not her actual story
_Really any woman giving input would've been better_
No - it would have been politically preferable from the perspective of feminist ideology - i agree, but it would not have been a better film.
Without understanding the pathology of (what you call) Male Gaze, the film falls apart.
Lanthimos does understand that - whereas perhaps you merely object to it.
Barbie at the end of the day is just an inoffensive (its careful not to offend the corporate and paternal masters calculus, is at the end of the day its *primary* dubious accomplishment) and desexualized bit of corporatism.... for a toy company.
The virtue signaling along the way being par for the course.
Sequel $$$$ already in the works.
@rrando726 I liked the book not the movie due to this exact reason. It was written by a man that shows the sexualization of women through a male lens. In the end, we are told that all of the promiscuity was imagined by Mccandless. The movie, however, decided to say that all of it was real and in turn sexualized Bella without letting her be her own person. It's not that it's politically preferable it's that a different perspective was needed to make sure the point of the film got across to the audience, which it clearly did not given that I have not seen anyone have this take.
I give Poor Things an A. Hope it gets many Oscars for acting and technical.
Happy Friday!!
Happy Friday!
Spot on, I agree!
(by the way, it’s pronounced LANthimos)