There Is A Right Answer To Dark Souls | Dark Souls Lore
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 12. 2021
- This video is a refutation of the idea that Dark Souls's story doesn't have a right answer or intended meaning. Dark Souls like many ambiguous stories tells it's story metaphorically. We can disagree about that meaning, but that it does have a allegorical story is not up for debate.
- Hry
The message on the thumbnail are a reference to Bloodborne's Master Willem. It's a joke. Not actually a shot at the community.
Good on you for alienating people
We've always known that a lot of the symbolism, stories, and ideas in the games are meant to convey deeper meaning, but to know exactly what that meaning is, is a difficult task. Just as before, we as a community banded together to understand the narrative of Dark Souls, we must again band together to uncover the meta-narrative and deeper meaning of all the symbols and stories we encounter, through many different unique lenses, perceptions of life and reality, and through the breadth of everyone's life experiences, for that is what is required to be enlightened.
It is not that our eyes are yet to open. They are opening, if only slightly, but we must fully open them to understand the truth that From Software meant to convey.
I feel like I was only confused on why you were quoting bloodborne of a picture of Dark Souls. But After watching the video it IS kind of fitting
Only a true monarch can make such a choice.
You should stop making souls videos
In Japanese art, there is this concept called "ma." It refers to negative space, and its importance in art to give context and harmony to the positive space. Miyazaki's storytelling is a master class in the application of this concept, where the missing parts are important for their absence and add meaning that would be lost if they were ever stated outright.
I think this strikes at the true nature of good art: it must be ambiguous so that the viewer can imbue it with their own meaning. It must reflect the viewer back at themselves, so that we look within ourselves to find the message. It helps us to explore our own psyche, it opens us to our subconscious. Dark souls gud.
@@VaderHater1993 I've been a stage actor for about 10 years now and one of my original mentors had a saying:
"Art is always bigger than the artist"
No matter your intentions, Whenever you create art, you are creating something that can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways.
You should not fight this. You shouldn't attempt to force your interpretation of your art, on your audience.
Instead embrace it. The beauty of art is in the individual interpretation. And no one is truly right or wrong... Because the things you create are always bigger than you intended.
The art is always bigger than the artist.
Your description of ma in art reminds me of French artist Jacques-Louis David's painting "Le Mort de Marat". Take a look at it and you'll immediately see what I mean. The upper half of the painting is completely empty.
What's the symbolism of all these bare feet ?
Miyazaki's favorite Tarantino movies.
Our vulnerability of moving into the unknown lol
Fan Servitude
Yummy!
Lmfao
The truth? from mere facts!? What can one hope to learn from rusted discarded artifacts and the frantically scrawled notes of madmen carelessly strewn about the ruins?
Insight sprouts from the visceral, the cold gripped caress of the Old One and the song it sings from the depths of its eldritch gaze.
Absolutely agreed. It's sad that a lot of people just take stories at face value, in general. Interpretation is one of the most important aspects of art for me, and I wish more fans would spend more time thinking about what elements and events represent.
Very true. Though sometimes (like in Monster Hunter) it also feels that people are overdoing the intrepretation. Most of the time it's harmless but when people are claiming that Safi'jiiva can control time and such... That's when it goes overboard :D
Anyone taking literally *any* story at-face-value, doesn't understand what a story is.
@@jacksonfurlong3757 I disagree with you. Taking a story at face value is a fine way to experience a work, as long as you acknowledge and accept that there likely is something more to it. Also. Stories can be very simple. The books I was reading when I wanted to learn how to read for example have... very little to no actual meaning. They're teaching tools. There's probably not any intended metaphors or deeper meaning to "Bob had a cat. Bob sat on cat." You could interpret there to be some of course, but that is not by any means the intention of the work.
I feel like the definition of face value more so relies on the story immediately in front of you. With the lore there is a lot of digging and pins on the board that you have to pull together yourself, or what most dark souls CZcamsrs do. On top of that some stuff is so open ended it allowed you to think deeper and theorize based on the information you have.
I say this because I also feel like some people take the story at face value, but because they don't dig deeper.
All in all, knitting together the story through item descriptions and dialogue, is not just face value.
@@moojoy1920 You should tell Bob to be more mindful of his cat before it gets crushed
The overall theme of these games for me is more and more obvious, and it's a theme that resonates deeply with me: it's essentially about entropy, how everything is destined to eventually fade away. But it's within our nature to be extremely attached to things we love, to the point we never realize how nothing is eternal, so we became desperate to hold it and not let it go, like Gwyn did when he sacrificed himself linking the First Flame and corrupted the whole world in the process. And the game is so brilliant that we don't know exactly why he did it, was only for his own sake, for maintaining his power? Or he did for his family and his people? Nevertheless, his actions were a defiance to nature itself and brought a curse to the world, because these games tells us, not only Dark Souls but Sekiro too, that stagnation is unnatural and brings corruption, that's why we are undead, we are not only some ugly zombie, we are creatures stuck in a existencial limbo between life and death, unable to let it go.
But the game allow us to relate to these characters, like Sister Friede who loves the painted world of Ariandel so much, her lovely comforting home, that she wants for it to last forever, and who can blame her, honestly??? This DLC is like a microcosm of the whole franchise, a commentary about the sad ephemeral nature of life itself, and of course like you said in the other video, it's about the very Dark Souls franchise too and how it must end to something else be born. It's kinda unfair isn't? Like I said earlier, it's our nature to be attached to what we love, but at the same time we are destined to lose it. It's a hard, terrible and inevitable truth that Dark Souls, heavily inspired by Buddhism and Shintoism although the western fantasy setting, tries to teach us, that we have to face it and move on, let the fire fade.
But believe me, it's not easy.
Damn you put my thoughts exactly in the right way, I love the subtle Buddhist themes that this franchise implements, you could say that this fire/dark cycle is essentially samsara, and to achieve enlightenment or nirvana one must let go of that samsara aka the fire/dark cycle, probably didn't make sense but this is how I see it
I mean I see it as like a creek, if the creek's water ain't moving then it'll become stagnant, and fester, but a flowing creek keeps moving and slowly shapes the land before it
This sort of meta, postmodern use of depicted reality to depict Reality was the main reason I came to love Dark Souls, without realising it. The barren, quiet, bleak mood of the world-state hinted at something deeper and older, on a basic surface level; but the more one discovered about the characters and the Fire and the Dark, the more one had to pause -- to laugh, to cry.
Your videos have helped me crystallise a vague sense of the epic, heroic, tragic, ethical, and philosophical that consistently hides under the surface in these games. Sometimes the metaphors are in plain sight, but many lurk in mist and fog. Your exegesis helps immensely. I can say that Dark Souls has transformed my vision of humanity, individuals, politics, and meaning in life.
You yourself have been part of this, which is beautiful because it fulfills Miyazaki's intention that players should find meaning in metaphor for themselves and between each other. Even better, I sincerely doubt your socio-political-historical-psychological insights from Dark Souls are the same as mine. That means Miyazaki has succeeded in creating a mythopoetic meme-verse which affects different people very differently. Hardly any games have done that, and this is a masterclass in such an achievement.
I cannot tell if this comment is a work of satire.
Well, that's the internet for you. Also, kind of illustrates the entire point of the comment, doesn't it?
There is absolutely nothing postmodern about dark souls, if anything the series message is the complete opposite of the postmodern narratives of politics and power.
Can you explain? On of the things I take from postmodernism is that its own theory can be applied to itself.
For me Dark Souls, viewed as an artistic expression, could be commenaty on multitude of things. For one on depression and nihilizm, in art and media and life as a whole, that we see more and more creep up into modern world but taken through fantasy narrative.
Also it could be commentary itself for such fantasy hero narrative that is prominent in games and other media in modern times.
Take the book Don Quixote from Cervantes, for example, that was commentary on the fantasy novels of the time but put on its head because the hero was a deluded old man who read too many of a fantasy novels.
Same in Dark Souls, if you go into a game blindly you expect a "classical fantasy narrative" but it is all on its head, you are not a hero, if you die or refuse someone other will come, there is only decay beacause that world has its fire relighted too many times, those fantasy tropes in various works of fiction explored so many times that they became "tropes".
It could be a commentary on the state of genre itself, fire relighted so much that there isnt even possible to make something original, where various world from various artists converge and merge as one borrows ideas and takes other for inspiration.
And if you link the fire at the end, you basically added another hodge-podge (fantasy, or even not ) hero story to vast vast collection in your head, from lord of the rings to avengers...
It is a hero's journey, which was written in one form or another since Gilgamesh, taken to it's extreme in which is shown that it looses meaning...
As someone who has always read into Dark Souls metaphorically more than literally, I thank you for this. It never set well with me that the plot was meant to be taken at face value, that the gods are just jerks trying to keep their hold over humanity. My personal reading has been, by and large, that the gods were indeed fallible like men are - and thus do things out of understandable, but flawed reasons. That Gwyn's determination to keep the fire going at all costs wasn't done out of malice, but out of fear of what the dark may bring. The conflict of fire and dark in Dark Souls is not a simple one at all: consider how humanity empowers the flame. Firekeepers keep the first flame burning through bonfires by empowering it with humanity. Humanity is dark in nature - but it is not antithetical to the flame, it is kindling for it. The Flame creates life, which puts an end to the curse of undeath, but only if it is empowered by tremendous amounts of humanity. Holding onto your humanity is what keeps you from going hollow, afterall. Fire needs Dark. It is not a case of "let it die", but a case of "they never should have been separated". Dark left alone creates awful things - Kaathe created the Dark Wraiths, coerced Oolacile into defiling Manus, created the Sable Church... but these things are abuses of the Dark, just as Chaos comes from abuses of Fire. Gwyn's fear of that abuse, the power he saw in the first men who's armies helped him defeat the dragons, is what drove him to his mistake. The Ringed City after all was both a prison AND a paradise. The first men were locked away and sealed, but where they were locked away was beautiful and serene, and Gwyn even surrendered his youngest daughter as a means of maintaining it.
Anyway this is all just my rambling I look forward to future videos you may have on the subject :)
You have really quickly become one of my favorite CZcamsrs, I really enjoy your very thoughtful and well worded takes on the subject matter of your videos
Ditto!
12:08
I appreciate all you say in this section, particularly the "dark good, fire bad." Because looking at the flame metaphorically and with all the lore, there is a argument for why rekindling the flame is a good thing, or at least not all bad.
To me, whether the First Flame represents civilization (I think it would be something closer to tradition) is far less interesting than the smaller existential and philosophical questions of various stories within the series. The quandary of what to do when somebody you care about is struggling with their own helplessness is a question that comes from a very literal look at Siegmeyer. To me it's less about what the story is meant to be, and more about what we bring out of it into our own lives.
I will say that I think most of the references to symbols in Miyazaki's quotes are talking about something closer to metonymy than metaphor. A headdress suggesting there is a larger culture, or corpses on stakes to show this isn't a friendly place. My biggest issue with this video is that you seem to be using the word metaphor broadly to mean allegory and deeper significance, when they aren't all mutually inclusive. So I have a hard time picking apart what I agree and disagree with, and in turn have difficulty adding to the discussion. Personally, I could see Dark Souls being allegorical in general, but I don't think every individual part of the world myth represents something specific. I do agree it is heavily thematic, though, and that those themes are worth talking about.
Sorry if this post is all over the place. I know it is, but I'm having trouble organizing all my thoughts without writing a big, rambling essay.
I 100% agree with you, I don't really like the idea that there is a "right" way to approach DS lore. You don't *have* to see "metaphors" everywhere to enjoy a great story.
Let people enjoy things.
Your post is fine and refreshing!
Feel like everybody interested in analysing the game could do with a bit more actually reading books about philosophy, critical literary theory, even just like novels lol. that way they would have the tools to say the thing they feel, and feel they should be able to say convincingly, but can't actually articulate. they just assume they can brute force it with raw grey matter. nah dawg... participate in all that massive collective intelligence built up over centuries b.c. it automatically knows more than you. don't be so arrogant. do u know what i mean?
everybody, not just people who like souls games, thinks they're smart enough b.c. they like i.d.k denis villeneuve movies, and video essays about denis villeneuve movies. if you have that kind of starting-stats ability to intuit "oh maybe there's some *structure* here" you are immediately a smart guy on youtube. but i feel like reading books used to be something u just did, even stuff which had nothing to do with your field or what you wanted to do in life, because it was enriching and *everybody knew* it was because it let you say the kinds of things you wanted to say, about stuff! like STEM guys used to read the Baghavad Gita and be into Buddhism and write poems and stuff; renaissance men. tangent... basically everybody just knew at least a little bit what was happening with other kinds of knowledge. now everybody is shrinking into what they know and think is enough. its not enough. read more! if you want to be able to say stuff that sounds like literary theory, read literary theory! if you want to be able to talk about philosophical or political aspects of a work, read some philosophy! some political or social theory.. whatever
Miyazaki is obviously a smart guy, and the games deserve proper exegesis. but the bar is in the earth.
@@wellawoods1660 The Best comment I've ever read in the so called "Souls Community" What u said is Universal, the modern world is rotting and we need to go back to the roots, linking the fire with our cultural heritage, the great thinkers of old, the classics like Homer, Vergil, Dante, bringing the old lords back to life, the world needs lords of cinder to link this fire.
It's about capitalism/contemporary society at the end of history - in Japan. the All gamers are bastards podcast analyses the game very well.
@@wellawoods1660 I think CRITICAL literary theory is rather destructive to any kind of interesting discussion about literature in general. As is much of postmodernist and deconstructionist literary theory. Both are traditions that to a large extent ignore authorial intent and only choose to see work through their own theoretical frameworks. Similar to how Freudian literary readings makes everything about repressed desires and the Oedipal complex. They use literature in arbitrary ways to prove the importance and veracity of their own ideas, in self-contained, largely circular arguments.
I think the irony with your comment is that you insult a bunch of unnamed people (Ratatoskr is clearly implied though) for trying to engage in intellectual conversation without having read any books (you presume), and then you add nothing of value to any kind of conversation, even while tons of constructive and interesting conversations are being had in the comments section to videos like this.
This video shows how Dark Souls deals with some of the most foundational world myths. After playing Elden Ring, this becomes even more clear, as the game just delves deeper into the complexity of these matters, centered around order vs chaos, civilization vs nature, and the various struggles of civilisatory and chaotic factions all vying for different kinds of power, with their own religions, their own strengths and weaknesses, and so on. This is literally perhaps THE greatest philosophical discussion of all time. It is the source of the Buddhist and Hindu conceptions of 'maya' or the veil or the world of things, the obsession with the material brought on by civilization that clouds us from our "real" nature. It is the Romanticist longing for reuinification with nature vs William Blake's "Dark Satanic mills". The strictures of modernity are what Freud blamed for repression of desires and its surfacing in the form of trauma and anxiety.
It is Nietzsche's desire to destroy not only God in name but the hidden religious metaphysical beliefs that remain in our social and linguistic structures (ideas such as The Golden Order, as separate from the Greater Will, in Elden Ring), the forms of civilization which deny us our naturalistic selves. And it is at the heart of every 1920s complaint about the decadence and degradation of modernity (an attitude similar to the commenter beneath you) which led to the rise of both Nazism and Stalinism. And indeed it lies at the heart of postmodernist and deconstructionist ideas which attempt to deconstruct the very idea of an untainted, natural self, untouched by civilization, as a mere construction OF civilization.
All this boils down to the dynamic between order and chaos, civilization and nature. Be cause we will always be caught between the desire for total freedom and one with nature on the one hand, and the comfort and security but also rules and limitations that civilization brings, not to mention the painful awareness of death that comes with an enlightened, humanistic society. So yeah, I wouldn't say ratatoskr hasn't read anything; I think when people DON'T see how this is clearly the main theme of the FromSoft games, I think THAT, rather, suggests a lack of learning, of history, of philosophy, and of literature.
Anyway those are my two cents.
Miyazaki could make a book series based on the true story of Dark Souls. I would buy it in an instant and I think it would be a great edition to the series.
It’ll never happen. As mentioned in the video, Miyazaki is very deliberate about what he includes as fact in the games because he wants the community to speculate and come up with our own interpretations. It’s been literally 10 years since DS1 and people are still theorizing. Putting out any form of official canon about the mysterious aspects of the games would put a stop to all that.
@@PintsofGuinness Good. No one cares about it anymore. Everything has been discussed and theorized to death. Name one new exciting theory to come out in the past 3 years.
@@hisholiness4537 don't know how long it's been around, but there is a theory that says pontiff and aldrich weren't working together, and they actually fought
I think this is an awesome idea! For me what would make it extra epic is if he never acknowledged that he was making sequels to the world of dark souls in its shadow without telling us :)
His passion initially was his lack of complete knowledge of western fantasy. He couldn’t understand what the characters said completely so he had to work with the limited knowledge that he knew in the world. His world was hostile and alien and he did what he had to in this environment.
I found this content as background noise for my rune farming in elden ring. I quickly realized I was much more interested in this sort of content as opposed to rune farming. The topics you have discussed are so thought provoking and provide a fresh take on games I have been playing for many years. It was such a pleasure to hear these. Thank you 🙏🏼
Jacob Geller's "Dark Souls 3 is thinking of ending things" is a wonderful analysis of themes in Dark Souls 3, I encourage y'all to check it out after you watch this wonderful video.
Miyazaki said in an interview how much he like occidental comics, and because they were in english he didnt understand everything, so he fill the gaps with his imagination, another way to complete the story of DS
Marketing
That's a solid mentality right there, though really unusual but I've tried shit like that before except that was when I didn't even know how to read and just looking at pictures
Can you link that interview? I have heard this a million times over but have never seen a source. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this can be traced to one of Vaati's first lore videos like 10 years ago, and he never provides a source. I'm doubtful of this information because Miyazaki, like most Japanese, seems to know no English at all. There isn't a single instance of him ever using English anywhere.
@@comradecatbug5289 I mean, that's the point, that he didn't know the language so he had to fill in the blanks, you can understand the basics from just looking at photos in comics. Btw I just googled it cause I was interested and I found two pretty credible sources on the first page, one of which is Guardian article from 2015 - with title - Bloodborne creator Hidetaka Miyazaki: ‘I didn’t have a dream. I wasn’t ambitious'
@@mirkiekishka I found the same results. None of those articles mention anything about English or the books/comics being from overseas. They only say they were beyond his reading capabilites. I'm quite sure this means they had complex kanji that Miyazaki couldn't read at such a young age. Japanese is a very complicated language, and japanese learn new words gradually throughout their whole education, expanding their vocabulary each year. Miyazaki had to read books that were meant for adults, and couldn¨t understand the words because they hadn't been taught to him.
I think you've just put to words why I love Dark Souls so much. In college, one of my favorite professors was my art history professor and for the purposes of our class, he presented "death of the author" to us. The reason he's one of my favorite professors is because we had a one-on-one heated debate on the topic and we still came away respecting eachother afterwards.
Death of the Author, simply put, is the idea that the author's truest intentions are largely or completely irrelevant for the purposes of debate, discussion, and interpretation. I firmly believe that to not be the case, but Dark Souls as you presented here is in many ways the antithesis to that idea.
There is an absolute truth, but we will likely never know it. That doesn't make the truth irrelevant. If anything that just makes the debate/ discussion all the more fun. There's something so life giving about piecing together the evidence to create a belief I see as close to true as possible and Dark Souls is essentially that without the existential dread of a lot of other questions out there with an absolute truth obscured by a lack of information.
Death of the author is one of those ideas that I both agree and disagree with at the same time.
But as I am writing this comment I just decided to lean more towards thinking it's stupid. I don't like the part of it that implies a rejection of value altogether. The idea that every person's interpretation is equally valid is wrong.
Maybe I'll make a video on the topic one day.
@@ratatoskr6324 The way I think of it, Death of the Author is only really a useful or interesting lens through which to view a work when an author's intentions were mundane or problematic, but miraculously their work contains more nuance and thematic depth than they intentionally put into it. With any competent author, the nuance and thematics in their work will coincide with their intentions and any other meaning derived from it usually relies on conclusions largely unsubstantiated by the text itself.
I agree with one caveat. A author doesn't necessarily need to be aware of what they're doing to create something that resonates with humanity.
And if they don't, that doesn't mean they lack talent. Leo Tolstoy when writing about how he couldn't logically come up for any reason for living, sincerely had no answers. Sometimes those writings are explorations and they touch on themes the writer doesn't consciously intend or even agree with.
I don't have anything to add to this thread really but I find myself agreeing with you both, and now understanding just a little bit more just why I love Dark Souls personally.
I find it maps to our reality as well...there are thousands and thousands of years of documented human history, and yet we will still never know with precision *exactly* what happened here in our own world. Why should a fictional world be different? Why must we have an encyclopedic understanding just because it's an imaginary universe vs. our real one?
Yet at the same time, we can know quite certainly that things did happen, whether we know of them/the details of them or not.
Prism Stone = Gravity's Rainbow
Hawkshaw was the first I got into who looks at the lore from a different perspective, you seem to be in the same mind frame as him. It’s refreshing to see something a bit different as well as the lore that just gives the facts too.
In fairness to Vaati, he does look at things in an allegorical perspective... in the videos that focus on such.
Hawkshaw is the GOAT
He just released a video about Solaire. It's pretty interesting.
This is partly why I love Redgrave's covering and interpretation of Bloodborne so much, not only did he compile the informations the game gave you as is, in his extra you tube videos he also gave extra possible metaphorical themes Bloodborne has.
The connection between Yharnam with it's use of quicksilver and the real life Minamata disease caused by mercury poisoning is immensely intriguing.
I've never really been into souls lore videos as much because I never found people who covered the game like Redgrave does for Bloodborne. Looking forward to more videos from your alienating opinions.
The first Greek philosopher, Thales of Miletus, revolutionized the thinking of his culture when he proposed that everything in nature is ultimately derived from the element Water. This was a big shift from the earlier understanding which had gods and spirits as agents behind natural phenomena. Instead, for Thales water was a singular principle through which all the workings of the world could be made intelligible to reason. Others proposed different fundamental substances such as Air or Apeiron (the boundless). Then a guy named Parmenides came along and said the singular thing must be Being. Being and Nonbeing, as logical contraries, cannot be attributed to the same thing. Therefore, all things which are of Being cannot perish into Nonbeing, nor can anything which is not come to be. This means that the true nature of the world is a unitary, perfect unchanging whole, and that our experience of it as changing is illusory. This view came to become an issue for many philosophers that followed who did not wish to reject the existence of change but had to wrestle with Parmenides' logic. Some ended up abandoning monism. But a guy named Heraclitus proposed that the fundamental substance was change itself, motion in flux between two opposites which unites them. This was symbolically represented by Fire. Starting to sound familiar?
Heraclitus was later influential on two very opposing figures: Hegel and Nietzsche. Hegel developed this idea of flux into a description of the development of thought over history which he called speculative philosophy but was later called dialectics. The purpose of this description was to outline a method to resolve all philosophical differences and arrive at total knowledge of truth. Dialectics also was employed by one Karl Marx. Nietzsche, in contrast, adopted Heraclitus' literary approach of placing teachings in cryptic aphorisms to question the idea of truth itself (as well as reason, morality, the self, and other mainstays of the western tradition). I really feel like Dark Souls is best interpreted by looking through both of these lenses. Insofar as Dark Souls "has an answer" it is of a dialectical nature as evidenced by its references to the history of philosophy, and our interpretation should employ dialectical methods of analysis to arrive at the best, most rational understanding. But at the same time, we have to accept the ambiguity of the actual evidence placed before us by the story. Miyazaki has in his mind a coherent narrative through which all the elements of the story come to make sense, but we cannot fully determine what his intent was. Of necessity our own interpretation should be coherent, but is coherence enough for us to establish that our interpretation is correct? This is exactly the sort of impasse that Nietzsche leans into and does not shy away from.
As interpreters we have to hold the tension between seeking the answer and acknowledging our limitations in reaching it. The slack of this tension can be expressed in two ways: just proclaiming that Dark Souls is intentionally vague and there's no point in trying to understand it, or dogmatically assuming one has the correct interpretation without further critical reflection. Either way, we go hollow. But if we persevere, our interpretation and the discourse about the game will continue to grow richer.
P.S. Excellent video. I always appreciate your content Ratatoskr.
Bruh your comment just give a new light to Dark Souls lores, this is so amazing these games push us to use philosophical definitions to try to understand the lore.
The paleblood hunt, that 100 page essay you mentioned is sick. Definitely a cool and really well put together read for any fans of the world of bloodborne
Thank you, I needed someone in the comments to name drop this
@@GeorgisTrying you're welcome! I hope you enjoy reading it too, its always fun replaying a from software game with context for who you're shanking 😂 Bloodborne is my favorite world of theirs by far
Recently listened to the an audiobook version of it. It truly is great.
Here are some interpretations I gravitate towards:
I think that fire in the game is a more abstract concept than just civilization, and might be Desire itself. Take the opening cinematic: Gwyn's fire is his might and his armies. The Witch of Izaleth wants the power of godhood, as she burns down forrests, tries to recreate the first flame, gives birth to countless creatures, yet in the end is consumed by her flame. Nito wanted to conquer death in all its aspects, and seems almost curious about the nature of life as its flame. The furtive pygmy strength is its humanity, and holds the flame to its chest. Humanity in dark souls is a complicated, contradictory thing. It was love of his pendant that drove Manus to create the Abyss.
I heard this line in an interview with a writer I can't remember right now, but it goes something like "A character never get what they want, but they get what they need. And that's where you introduce conflict."
Wanting the Age of Fire back or kickstarting the Age of Dark in Dark Souls 1 is an ultimately hollow victory, as you either save a world that's had its time, or you snuff out the fire. Neither option is necessarily a satisfying ending, yet deciding the fate of the world is the guiding force behind the entire series. Were the player not to do either, the world would slowly fade into its next stage. We choose the path of desire over and over, much like the circular darksign that brands the undead: turning us hollow.
Each NPC also has this theme. Solaire is a fool blinded by faith in the idea that they can self-actualize, thereby 'becoming their own sun'. When the task seems impossible, Solaire descends into Hell (Izaleth), and falls into grandiose delusion by the sunlight maggot. Laurentius is an outcast who shares their own flame with others, but never asks anyone for help. His lonely adventure eventually leads to a swamp of sorrow. Siegmeyer is a man who craves meaning and adventure, but lacks the drive to do any of it. He becomes increasingly reckless and insecure until kind of ending up with a deathwish. Big Hat Logan wants to hide from the world and pursue his singular passion. He engulfs himself into his research until it swallows him whole.
And all the while, each and every character undertakes trial and obstacles which range from minor scrapes to major setbacks. It's a hostile world filled with people trying to make some meaning out of it.
And the truth is, it doesn't matter what happens in the end, so long as you enjoy your time moment to moment. Have goals and pursuits, but be careful not to lose yourself to them. You're human, after all, and our best and worst parts are our humanity.
I think your onto something with the flame representing civilization. I think it means something like this, Gwyn made the first age of fire and it reflected him, and thus was flawed. As you search the world its flaws become more apparent. He sacrificed himself to sustain the world, and you the player can choose to follow im his footstepes and sustain the world through sacrifice and save it, both the good and the bad, or you can return the world to dark and reject the current civilization.
Fast forward to DS3 and we see the same civilization, rotting, falling apart. Before the world had a good bit of light to compliment the dark, despute its flaws there was still much to admire about the civilization, now every thing is broken, the land itself shits and moves, everything is divided and fighting against itself. If you follow NPC's quest lines they almost all end in tragity, there is no one left to save, so what are you sacrificing yourself for? The true ending sees you letting the fire fade, ending the rotting civilization and hopping in the future another might flourish.
I think DS1 showed a flawed world still worth saving and DS3 showed one with nothing left to save. Civilizations die, its been theorized that any empire usually only exists for 250 years. Its not always worth fighting the natural course of history.
I love that miyazaki thinks of stories the same way I do. There is a more complete narrative in his head, but ultimately this narrative only matters in so far as it informs what gets put into the games. Anything that isn't in the games and cannot unambiguously be inferred is not part of the "right" narrative.
So yeah, this means any non metaphorical discussion is always gonna be extremely surface level or highly speculative. And discussions that include the themes and metaphors will be far more interesting.
100% with you on the importance of symbolism!
It's equally abundantly clear how deep and careful he considers various cultural beliefs. How organically he integrates a multitude of concepts into the lore-poetry. And nary is anything every fully bad or fully good. Often the middle-road is the only road so long as it isn't full of indecision. Hmm... Hmmmm... a tasty pickly indeed...
That bit about reshooting the Nito scene is maddeningly intriguing.
Another aspect of the lore and its associated theme that I find interesting is where Londor ended up relative to Velka's intentions. The item descriptions that mention the Sable church/Londor take a very dismal view of the group, but that's not the impression I got from Velka in the first game relative to her intentions in general. What went wrong (for Velka at least).
Right? Like imagine Miyazaki shaking his head and sucking in his breath, saying "No, he needs to hold it more ... assiduously."
So weird as it is I picked up dark souls 3 because I was bed ridden from being blown up in the army. I was a little too far away from family for them to visit but I loved the little quotes from the NPCs “I pray for your safety” or “don’t you dare slip away on us.” The nurses even said that I was probably the most well rounded patient they had. Tried to get out of bed multiple times to clean my room. Make their job easier
Fucking finally someone says it. Dark Souls lore is not up for interpretation, it's up for investigation. Thank you for this.
I mean both
"I'm just not willing to believe that Dark Souls is stupid" I don't know why but this stood out to me
I actually really like this idea. People should wake up to the idea that metaphors and symbolism are used to fill in some of the bigger gaps in the story's interpretation.
A lot of the issue with why this hasn't caught on is due to the differences in Western Vs Eastern storytelling. Eastern storytelling loves metaphors and symbolism, a lot of Asian cultures have a "don't think about it and accept the theme" sort of aspect to their literature. More often than not there is no cut and dry answer in regards to some story elements, but when taken in as a whole the "details" that western literature is often obsessed with are very readily apparent. Both methods of storytelling arrive at the same conclusions but through vastly different methods.
I'd love to ask Miyazaki what his definitive version of the story is and how it differs from all the theories I've heard
It is like the real world history, you find things and try to make things out of them, but you are never finished and 100% sure, brilliant.
This was... definitely something.
I was and am always one who supports the concept that Dark Souls has no real meaning on a plot perspective, purely because of one of the most vital quotes stated in Dark Souls 1.
"The flow of time itself is convoluted, with heroes centuries old phasing in and out. The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure. There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact."
There simply won't be an A to B coherency to Dark Souls, not on a linear perception of time. And yet... I see so many people trying to force a linear time coherency. The game itself states that time does not flow correctly, and I feel that it is far too often ignored in a plot perspective.
And reflecting on that... what reliability can we have that Lordran _as we witnessed it in Dark Souls 1,_ has any perfect, precise, and exact precedence to Dark Souls 3? None.
But that is the ramblings of a matter which does not relate to the message behind your video here.
To be honest, I never found any videos that really got into discussing Dark Souls on a philosophical and symbolic scale, until I came across your channel. I wished to, but rarely ever did.
I am certain that we will differ on many viewpoints and ideologies.
I am certain that the previous statement alone carries no weight of meaning to you - after all, I am but one stranger, one drop of rain into an ocean.
But just the same, I am certain that my heartfelt gratitude towards your contributions of allegorical and philosophical discussion to the Souls community will be, at least, vaguely appreciated.
It is my hope that, by viewing more of your videos - by hearing more of your thoughts and perceptions - I may deepen my own understanding and interpretations further. Your willingness to share your content... I truly do thank you for that, and I hope that gratitude brings some vague sense of comfort.
Stay safe - don't you dare go Hollow. May the roads you travel impart prosperity and peace.
I'm working hard right now on a large video covering what I think it means. I hope you enjoy it.
You have the highest quality of all Souls content out there. You are a blessing.
That’s why I appreciate your content and take on reaching a deeper meaning under the surface. I choose to see more subtle layers to existence, the physical world, and the apparent events that take place in it. There is always more (or less) than appears to be
I like Dark Souls because I like when I hit with a big sword and I kill the guys in 2 hits
Vati: Standard and basic but fairly thourough about most the games characters and elements.
Hawkshaw: Goes into insane detail to figure out some obscure background aspects of the games story that might explain a bunch of random things you never thought about... yet it somehow makes sense.
Ratatoskr: Focuses on the thoughts of the creators of the story from how they made it, rather than that story and its in universe meaning itself.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I feel about this topic. Some people want the clues to be so obvious or to completely understand what’s going on. When that was never the intention.
I then see too many get upset when they can’t grasp something dismiss any of the story and call it stupid. It’s such a shame because whenever I couldn’t understand something about these games. It lead me down a rabbit hole of reading item descriptions, theory posts, and going in game to check out the area for visual clues.
And that’s lead me to having some very fun brainstorming sessions or discussions with friends. It’s a whole new way to enjoy this game this medium outside of just combat. It’s so addicting in-fact I fall asleep at night sometimes thinking about the story. I know it’s not for everybody but I like being left in the dark sometimes keeps me invested.
Also looking back on those interviews reminds me of those people who say anything past DS1 lore is pointless/bad. They insinuate additional work from Miyazaki as if it were a slog. Something he’d never want to do and didn’t care anymore. It’s pretty disingenuous to assume such if you ask me.
I think I'm gonna start reading item descriptions after watching this...
That last line got me good.
I was not expecting to get a good chuckle from a lore video. Gj
The first flame represents the known. It represents comfort. It represents home. The Dark, meanwhile, represents the unknown. The uncomfortable. But it also represents potential, while the first flame represents stagnation. The entire series is about keeping the first flame alive, and the consequences thereof in doing so. Even as the world collapses in on itself, leaving no other option but to embrace the unknown, people still cling to what is known. Herald it as a good thing, the best thing, even. But the world has not advanced. Centuries, millenia has passed, but the world has not advanced. Just because it is known does not mean it is good, and just because it is unknown doesn't mean it is bad. I think, therefore, the only canon endings are the link the fire ending, and the endings of dark souls 3. In linking the flame, you perpetuate the cycle. You accept your fate and burn with the world around you in comfort, before darkness swallows it whole. In the firekeeper ending, the firekeeper is so gentle with it, so desperate to protect it, because while we are held back by this comfort, this warmth, we need not forget it. Must not forget it. For we will light our own fires in the dark. New places, new times, will become the known, the comfort, the home. And we need to be willing to move to them, to move forward when the time comes. In the embers ending, we make the ultimate betrayal and the ultimate act of selfishness. We would plunge the world into darkness, if only we may know the comfort of home a moment longer than everyone else. In the Londor ending, we are completely turning our back on the known, and completely embracing the unknown. I believe the firekeeper ending is the best. We do not need to completely upend everything we know, everything we find comforting, just to traverse into the unknown. But we need to be willing to leave it behind and step into the dark in the first place.
The lore and characters and story are all neat, but they ultimately serve this narrative, I think. Parables, each and every one of them, in their failings to pursue their own misguided ends. I enjoy Vaati and other lore videos because, even as an item description enthusiast, it can be hard to really staple all the descriptions together. And, since these games are vague and misdirecting, it's easy to miss them, even, and the story is left incomplete, and you wouldn't have a clue in hell what's missing because the essential lore is written in the description of Smoughs cock sock you can only find on a corpse hidden away at the end of some janky parkour section that didn't even look like a parkour section. But, the lack of people really stepping back and looking at what it all means is saddening. There's a lesson to be learned from it all, a moral to the story, but it's so easy to get lost between the big names and epic characters and bosses. Especially since so many of their stories end unceremoniously at the end of our blade.
That feeling of wonder and yearning for understanding from the souls game is like tje dead air between notes in my favorite songs.
2022 and still redescovering dark souls.. goddamn thank you those vidéos
You made me cry with your painted world video and now with this one. Its not you personnaly that makes me so emotional but the realisation of certain things about the game that is not realy about the game itself. Knowing that there is actually the absolute truth about the Dark Souls story but we will never know about it, touches me in a profound way, the same way that we will never know the absolute truth about our universe, even if we will never have a glimpse of it, we will never stop to looking for it
"Man, Dark Souls 2 sure has broken hitbo 4:02"
Would be awesome to get the sources of the interviews. Great video!
The "meaning" behind a story is not the story itself. In game lore and themes are both important for looking at the game through differently perspectives. All the pieces are required to put together the whole picture.
This is why I think Dark Souls is closer to soft world-building than hard world-building. There are lots of details and facts but for of the most part, Miyazaki shows more than he tells. You make the story with your interpretation of what you are shown.
Thank you very much for doing this video, i'm so fascinated by your view on the lore! Never thought about the metaphorical meaning of the lore before, but i will keep it in mind from now on!
I agree with your metaphorical aspects of the story. However, I do love the fact that the non-metaphorical side of the story is so fluid in its interpretation. Personally, I like to play the entire Fromsoft Soulsborne series as one long story with the main characters of each game being the same person reincarnated during each age over and over until they finally transcend the cycle by becoming a Great One at the end of Bloodborne. Naturally, I do have to take some liberties with the presented lore but I think that is fine and even encouraged to some degree.
To be completely honest I’m surprised the intentional vagueness and gaps, and the devs intention to allow for head canon and interpretation had to be explained at this point. It’s a frame work that we’re all allowed to work within to tell a story that resonates with ourselves or each other
"That would mean dark souls is stupid; and I'm just not willing to believe dark souls is stupid." Well friggin said.
been a while since I saw a dark souls lore video come around swinging. It's refreshing and right up my alley
I think Dark Souls has always felt this way and you have once again put it into the words needed for me to wrap my head around it.
With every other game that I have played it was always clear when something was physically, or materially canon, and when there was a measure of symbolism present in any given scene. When you were literally just playing the game and killing some enemies, looking at numbers and cool effects, and when the game was actually trying to tell you something.
This wasn't the case when I played Dark Souls though. Dark Souls feels like an open book in a language you can barely speak, with some side illustrations that you can clearly tell aren't meant to tell the whole story. Behind the veil of gameplay and material truth there is an ever ongoing narrative that you have to somehow give meaning to yourself. The game never seems to make an attempt at telling you something concrete, there is no message at first glance. That is, until you realize that it had never stopped whispering to you since the moment that you booted to the title screen.
Bro imagine this old Japanese businessman acting out all these weird poses like 20 times because he doesn't like how they look
hahaha
Are you familiar with PlagueofGripes' Dark Souls playthrough? I found that to be one of the more interesting youtube series on the game (DS1 specifically, as it was recorded before DS2 came out).
My man TB Skyen showing up for half a second with his "Many Meanings of Dark Souls" during the youtube search query bit.
If you haven't already seen it I really recommend his Boss Designs series. He plans to play through every Fromsoftware game and analyse and interpret all the bosses in order to form a coherent reading of each game as a whole. And he's commented that he's purposefully keeping away from lore videos and interpretations because he wants to go in blind so he can form his own readings. He has played through DSI and DSII so far and is currently finishing up his series on Bloodborne. Ironically I think this is the truest any video series on the souls games has come to Miyazaki's intention when creating the games. He even ends every game with the aforementioned "many meanings" episode, where he compiles the thoughts and interpretations of what the games mean to people from his community. I think its the most unique and enjoyable Souls content I've seen and many more people in the souls community should check it out!
This reminds me of the Twin Perfect video about the true meaning of Twin Peaks. You should do a deep dive into the metaphors of the Souls series.
Good job, man, your lore videos are so good!
I'd say everyone engaging with Fromsoft games, even seemingly by just discussing facts and order of event are connecting with it's emotional and philosophy themes. It's just not many people know how to express that or even realize it's happening. Just as irl myths themselves were both subconscious and literal lessons to their contemporaries. Nobody really discussed their metaphors besides sages and bards. I think that's the true value of what Miyazaki and the team has created, modern myths that spirutuali fulfilling and exciting stories to discuss and argue about. The whole modern culture is craving for this kind of stories if you think about it, just look at what marvel and superheroes are doing.
That said literal discussions outweighs any other, so your approach is very welcomed, hope to see way more about it and now Elden Ring, mb even comparing the two.
I feel like Vaati has gotten better. I especially liked his SINH the slumbering dragon video, and I liked the ivory king video too. Ivory king has very optimistic metaphors to human nature, and it inspires a love for humanity.
A lot of theories and interpretations eventually turn out to be wrong but in my opinion they're still valuable if they give you something to think about. However, most people don't share this view - it's just entertainment, they want to know the facts, for everything else is fiction of a fiction, and therefore - valueless.
I love Miyazaki's approach to story telling. In a way, I find the way a story is told is more important than the story itself. Nowadays a lot of stories are just plot points, linked together by some threads and it the only themes explored are those which naturally spawned from the said plot line, seemingly after the fact. I love that not every rock is unturned and concepts that are mysterious in-universe often remain mysterious outside the game itself. I love that not everything neatly falls into places, just like it often does in life. Sometimes, what you need for perfection is a little imperfection.
Unfortunately, this amazing approach to storytelling is both a blessing and a curse - it gives room to do some actual thinking not just within the context of a video game, but makes it really hard to share it with others.
i think death of the author applies here. of the personal interpretation of the work is more interesting than what the author intended i don’t really care for calling it “wrong”
Look as long as your entertained the story has done it's job
I wonder what the background music that ratatoskr is playing. Can anybody tell me what the name of that track is?
what is the song from the backround?
There is definitely heavy symbolism and themes but it's also balanced with interesting lore and just plain whimsical detail in Dark Souls/Bloodborne. I like to read but I hated English literature in school because we would have to dissect a story like "of mice and men" to the point where it stopped being a story. We had to find symbolism in things that probably didn't mean anything other than world building. But you are right I'm not disagreeing. I enjoy theorising on what characters motives are, and what weird buildings where used for in the game world, more than what it represents on a meta level.
Applicability > Metaphors
Ratatoskr keep dropping exceptional videos. Excellent presentation of information. Your arguments are well formed and eloquent. 10/10
I also find the Dark Souls lore to be one of my favorite things about the series, which is why I’m somewhat disappointed that GRRM is supposedly involved in Elden Ring’s story. Although, I question whether that old rascal has done anything in the last decade besides tweet and spend his HBO money (can’t say I’d blame him).
I really hope that Miyazaki’s storytelling ability is just as present in Elden ring as it was in dark souls. When I think of Miyazaki, I think of the profound themes of the souls games. When I think of GRRM, I think of
>sunset found her squatting…
I like to think Martin only did the backstory and Miyazaki is the one writing the plot.
I hope for that to be true. After watching the stream last night and the trailer, I got worried the lore would be something like GoT
@@ratatoskr6324 it has been confirmed than Martin only did the basic lore of the game and setting
Every soulsborne lover knows this to be true internally. The obvious details are obvious for a reason. The deeper meanings and themes are the true story of dark souls. It is a spiritual one at it's core.
I think I am missing something here. Your video (Thumbnail saying: 'We are thinking on the basest of planes') makes its seem like the entire Souls community thought Dark Souls didn't have themes and only thought about the story and in game lore but that couldn't be further from the truth.
From what I have seen, it was always a given that Dark Souls had themes and all that (most media do), and obviously there was a fully complete story. We just never had all the pieces so we could never fully piece it together (as you illustrated in the video).
Just because a title says lore doesn't mean the content creator doesn't touch on possible themes and stuff. The only reason they is more focus on the actual lore and not just its themes is because not everyone will interpret the story the same and reach the same conclusions about its themes and metaphors and any possible allegories.
Obviously not all themes are as equally valid and there is one theme that is the most correct one, but we don't know it because the creator didn't say THIS IS THE THEME. He did the opposite as you again illustrate in your video.
It is a reference to Bloodborne. Master Wilhelm says that.
@@ratatoskr6324 Cool. Didn't remember that.
I kinda agree with you a bit "theme" that's talked about is the Idea of Stagnation and how it has effected other civilizations before our time and such but I don't think he meant they don't touch on themes. I think he meant that they maybe are very one-dimensional when it's presenting these things or ideas? I don't really agree with that but I think that's what he's saying if it isn't I don't want to take Him out of context.
I love this video and speaks to a sentiment I’ve grown tired of in media analysis on the whole not just dark souls and this video’s quality and substance reminds me a lot of another great video touching on this kind of dynamic. There’s a great video about this by a CZcamsr called folding ideas about how this played out for the movie Annihilation and how most videos that came out about it after the fact were piecing together events of the movie in the most calculating way and detached from what the movie’s strongest element was and that’s it’s metaphorical symbolism that went over a lot of people’s heads. This unfortunately feels like a really common sentiment for souls fans due to the detaching of more literary analysis of themes and metaphors in the games and go for instead a purely like historical break down of events. And I think this kind of analytical thinking is very important for the games and its story and is important for the kind of modernist stylings the souls games lean into like something akin with classic writers like Joyce’s or Hemingway’s styles. But with the souls lore community in general and especially in the CZcams souls lore industrial complex they miss the other crucial aspect that comes with these styles of writing that require both the analytical piecing together from information in the text and the emotional, thematic, and metaphorical understanding of the importance of those actions and events that have added plot context due to the historical piecing together but also has deeper thematic resonances that are seemingly lost on a good portion of souls lore enthusiasts.
So true. In fact I prefer my personal interpretation of these games over the logical interpretations of Vaati and other creators. But there is one question that just keeps me bugging. Why do the Headless in Sekiro does not have a centipede inside them? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Miyazaki and the band Tool both take the same route. There is an intended story being told but it's just as if not more important what you personally take away from what you experienced.
I'd love to hear how much faith should be put into Scholar of the First Sin. Mainly just Aldeas dialogue. I love his lines and given how every ending from DS1 to 3 is nearly identical, his dialogue holds weight.
Man I was hoping you would discuss about your interpretation of the theme of dark souls. To me, the theme of the games is that moving forward is the only way to fix problems. Also by moving forward one has to put aside their pride, as arrogance is cyclical. I would be happy to elaborate as discussion progresses!
I can recommend Max Derrat since he focuses on metaphores in his game analysis videos (and he's a great guy)
CZcams is a large spectrum of views for dark souls lore. On one end you have HawkShaw who explains everything in the most detailed, literal sense and take all or most given evidence and tries only to use that to come to a conclusion. On the other end you have The Ashen Hollow who builds off of the philosophy, unexplained and unexplainable to build theories that could and would fit snug into the known in understood lore. Both fantastic in their own right, this community is beautiful.
wdym dark souls isn't stupid man? I saw that iron golem grab you through time and space, you saw that golem grab you, we all saw it.
Miyazaki is a hack.
that was funny af.
Maybe I just don't spend enough time in comments sections, but it's hard to imagine anyone honestly believes that there isn't a larger, (at least mostly) completed story in Miyazaki's head. The most cursory viewing of any of Vaati's vidyas--basically the entry point for the DS lore community--would show there is way too much connective tissue built into the lore for it to have been randomly thrown together.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest people probably meant that the "true" story is simply functionally unknowable (unless Miyazaki changes his mind), and therefore, as far as experiencing the story goes, it effectively doesn't exist. Not that it actually doesn't exist.
I think the general message of dark souls' story aligns with its gameplay loop. The only way to fail in dark souls is to give up, to go hollow, and to abandon your quest and purpose. having a purpose is all that one needs to retain their self, and persistence towards that purpose is the greatest virtue. Gael clings to his purpose, for example, nobly seeking the blood of the dark soul so that his niece can paint a new world for humanity, free of the curse. His purpose is so strong that he gives himself to the dark soul so he can become the blood, and so that the unkindled one can come take it. Persistence of the individual, and persistence of humanity, rising each age and falling to the curse, linking the fire and rising again. That's not to say that ushering in the age of dark is akin to humanity giving up, maybe breaking the loop and entering the age of dark is their purpose, but to link the fire is at least to persist.
I mean the dark age could just be the unknown, we always fear the unknown
From Gaijin's thumbnails right over to Vaati's huh. It's a cutthroat field, this thumbnail business
All their thumbnails are belong to us.
As a former English major myself, I'm constantly frustrated by the lack of attempts to do a proper textual analysis of FromSoft games. As much as people are up in arms to defend the idea that video games can be art, there's depressingly little acknowledgement that video games are *literature* .
I see the age of fire and the age of dark as two different ways of life. both are perfectly valid. What is the dark associated to in Dark Souls? It's everything that makes us human. So emotion, creativity, art, ambition. While light is logic, order, glory, and things that are obviously beautiful and perfect. In fact, I interpret it as a romanticism vs enlightenment kind of conflict. Do you prefer a cold, sterile view of the world that removes humanity out of the equation, or is the human soul essential for the true understanding of the universe we live in?
Enlightened romance
Great stuff!
You see this same sort of shallow analysis you're critiquing in many film analysis videos on CZcams. "What REALLY happened at the end of Inception" type videos where clearly the ambiguity is intended to make you contemplate the metaphorical meaning, rather than be directly explainable.
I have nothing more to add to this, great video as always
I like this analysis, Dark Souls I believe has a very set narrative structure or story. I liken it to an old puzzle that was thrown on the floor, its pieces are scattered all over the floor. You have to find the pieces and place them in the proper place but the more you piece it together the more you realize, pieces are missing, faded, or broken.
I also liken it to being an archeologist, you have to take documents, ruins, artifacts and use them to piece together the story of what happened.
Miyazaki and his team had to have written out the complete story and history of the games but then in the process of creating the games left out or twisted different sequences to confuse the player, to where they have to figure it out instead of being told what the story is.
I think that is the true draw of Dark Souls, you have to figure out the story, you have to do the work, like going to Ikea, buying the furniture and putting it together yourself. you feel more satisfied with it, but the missing incomplete nature of Dark Souls causes you to want to come back to find that missing piece because your brain can't leave it alone. You know something is missing and it makes you want to find that piece all the more.
I understand your points - but in some key aspects, I inclined to disagree.
Yes, it is true that Miyazaki has a complete vision of a story in his mind, which answers many gaps and questions.
But what I don't agree with is that this vision constitutes the "true version" of the story, as you repeatedly called it.
If he wanted it to be undeniably canon, he would have included it - but he didn't. Which in my eyes indicates that it should be taken not as an absolute truth to uncover, but merely as a “blueprint” from which the final story - with all its intentional vagueness and openness to interpretations - had emerged.
And yes, I am firmly in a "death of the author" camp, in case anyone's wondering.
Great points. Dark Souls always felt the most mythological of the Miyazaki games I played, so it would follow Dark Souls would be best understood in terms of symbolism, allegory, etc..
Reminds me of a chat i had with a friend that recently started DS3, he was in Anor Londo and thought it was a bit of cheap fanservice so i replied that it made sense for Anor Londo to be there. He answered that it did made sense by citing the lore, I meant it made sense in a thematical level.
The lore is the themes tho...
@@shmillbe3390 they're intertwined but they're not the same thing.
@@night1952 how tho, you need to know at least some of the lore to get an idea of the themes
@@shmillbe3390 Lore gives context, the theme is the core message. These games could have no intro, dialogues or item descriptions and you'd still get the theme.
> Watch Dan Carlin's podcast episode about Historical Arsonists
> Pay attention to Ariandel and the firekeeper's dialogue in End The Fire ending...
Gehrman: Dr Strangelove
Willem: Eyes Wide Shut
Ludwig: Clockwork Orange
To add to your list of Miyazaki-isms. He said of his inspiration for the way the story was delivered to the player was to represent his reading of English books when he was a child. He couldn't understand all of the words in the books he read growing up so he'd have to fill in the gaps with his imagination. That's the experience he wants for the player. That magic of finding your own tale that resonates with you
I'm pretty sure I mentioned that.
Haven't seen anyone use CZcams's white day theme for a while, it's almost painfully bright by comparison especially for a nocturnal like me. Or is there a more symbolic reason you're using it? ;)
Haha I see what you did there in the last sentence I love it
I heard once that Miyazaki's stated goal was to "Represent the goodness in humanity", and typically interpret the stories from that perspective as the core consistent theme. Any thoughts?
I've looked at a lot of Miyazaki interviews. Maybe even all of them and I don't remember that quote.
@@ratatoskr6324 Odd, I wonder where I saw it. It was before DS3 came out, because my buddies and I were discussing it sometime between 2 and 3, but it could be baseless. I swear it came from a source of some kind at some point, XD
Either way, it was a good lens to use. I'm typically super anti death of the other, but given Miyazaki explicitly said he was influenced by incomplete translation, I figure there's a justification here to improvise meaning. I always figured that the story had a specific narrative that would never quite be explicit, and the arc of man over the three games was a pretty good one.
@@jeremyabrahamson2872 It sounds a bit like something the Miyazaki from Studio Ghibli might say. Just a thought.
I’ve always had the idea ever since I first started to play the souls games in 2021 that the lore and the metaphors should be more intertwined any time I was watching a lore vid
I'm not sure if you'll see this but, I'm happy I've found you, you are a true Dark Soul.
And sorry for my poor English. It's not my main language.
@@Hoss9in It's always the ones apologizing for bad English that have completely flawless English.
I feel the same man this is what I want 😢
More metaphorical interpretation 💞
I think my deeper reading of the game was a lot simpler than most others' 😅. The way I see it, Dark Souls is a game about storytelling. The fire is the telling of the story, and the darkness is the end of the story, the embodiment of the unknown for what comes next.
The Souls games are a series that changed my life. They're an incredible story that I think would touch the heart of anyone who plays them. That being said, this world is dying. The story is a tragedy or a world burned almost entirely to ash. The best way to preserve what's left, and let the story come to a satisfying conclusion, is objectively to let in the age of darkness.
...
Of course that ending comes with a twist though. The twist is framed in a way to make your actions seem futile, but instead I think that it makes the ending absolutely perfect. As darkness is ushered in, the fire keeper speaks to you "Ashen one, hearest thou my voice still?". Tiny embers flicker across the darkness, implying that one day the story will be told again, and that is EXACTLY what I want. If there are still people out there seeking this story, then they deserve the chance to reignite the world to experience it. If not, darkness and peace is exactly what this franchise needs. A chance to explore the unknown. Worlds beyond the souls series. But still leave the door open for people who's lives could be changed by these games like mine was. The age of dark ending may not feel satisfying at first, but it is absolute perfection.
On an entirely unrelated note, have you ever noticed that the metaphors behind all of Fromsoft's major games make up the sun moon and stars?
Dark Souls is the Sun
Bloodborne is the Moon
Elden Ring is the Stars
If you want to take it a step further I'd even say that Demon's Souls makes up the clouds.
I 100% agree on this front and this is exactly why I have never really been interested in VaatiVidya. I was an old school EpicNameBro fan way before anyone else was really doing Souls lore stuff and to say that his interpretation is definitive would be a disservice considering he performed so well he was hired by From to do work on the official guides.
Lol, the "dark good, fire bad" perfectly sums up the opinions of such big part of the community. It's like this Timmy's-first-lore moment, because if it's not default ending then of course it has to be right.
To be fair, I consider the subverting the fire ending to be the canonical climax not because "dark good fire bad", but because it's the first time, in the entire series, a *mechanical* subversion of the entire world order has ever happened. The implication is that it has *completely* changed the rules of the universe, perhaps irreversibly so if Kaathe is to be believed.
When you let the fire die, it's implied that some schmuck can just go relight it. A dead fire is still the age of fire, just without any fire atm.
However, this true age of dark has literally replaced the flame with dark. It has been a complete subversion of the universe unlike anything else in the series.
So yeah, regardless of whether either fire or dark is "the good guy", in my opinion miyazaki intended the subversion of fire ending to be the canonical finale, as it seems to be the most irreversible thing to happen.
6:15 I do not interpret diarrhea on my underwear to be evidence that I shit my pants.
Dang, I just wrote many thousands of worda trying to communicate this. :(