The Metaphorical Meaning Of Fire And Dark | Dark Souls Lore
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 06. 2021
- While many videos have been made on Dark Soul's lore, there are very few that tackle its metaphorical or symbolic meaning. Which is a shame because I believe those are the most interesting parts of the lore. In this video I do my part to rectify this situation by explaining why I think the First Flame is a metaphor for civilization.
- Hry
My dad, who is a history professor, played Dark Souls a couple of times. He immediately traced back the backbone of the history to Prometheus and the meaning of fire as a fuel for civilization. This shows that the motifs and overarching themes in the Dark Souls series are pretty clear, although sometimes overlooked, but not by you sir, excellent video and take on the Dark Souls story.
altoguht
I couldn’t disagree more. The themes are not clear and there are more than one. he purposefully hides these in the lore so they are not easily clear. It’s the point of his execution of the work itself.
@@nicholasnajibi3082 No like Rolando perfectly demonstrated, the motifs and overarching is clear. People are just uneducated and uncultured. But even with a basic classic education the motifs are obvious.
Should have him look at Elden ring and how it’s all about alchemy and the philosophers stone plus all the mushroom stuff it’s wild how much their is in Elden ring. Not to mention the New Testament stuff in their too.
@@nicholasnajibi3082 to boil it down dark souls in itself is about trying to keep something going but, all things will lose what’s makes it special eventually and then rots and corrupts . That’s the most basic explanation and of course it’s more then that tho
Friendship ended with Vaati,
Ratatoskr is my best friend now
Nahh, Vaati is still king in my subscriptions list, but it's still good seeing Ratatoskr vie for the crown!
@@SynysterProjects Vaati hasn't been the king in years now. Not to say he isn't great, but his content was at its most exemplary when he was truly telling stories, when his production value, presentation, and script were at their strongest way back when with Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. Prepare to Cry was something really special. Eventually, from what I watched at least, he transitioned from this more storyteller's perspective and methodology in writing and scripting, and turned more into just a casual walk along. Which has its own merits no doubt, but it just wasn't as special as him really letting his hair down and telling the story in his own way. Immense respect for Vaati, but his reign ended. Still great, but not the unanimous heavy weight anymore.
@@Tracker947 Vaati was the king back when there weren't any other Dark Souls lore videos because he was basically the only one who did this thing. The production value doesn't save "his" theories (he never comes up with anything) from being just shallow, average, and/or dumb. Really, Vaati has the worst, most overly simplistic theories and speculations that he, again, just copied from other forums. How can he be called the king of lore if he doesn't even come up with any theories or explanations on lore?
@@SynysterProjects Vaati doesn't have the philosophical, psychological, mythological and 'metaphysical' chops shall we say, to deliver the kind of depth which is truly conveyed through the Souls series. I like his content. I don't think he's awful. I think as other people have already mentioned, he rose to fame through occupying a fairly empty space on youtube, and presenting recycled information obtained through other forums in a more accessible medium.
There, fixed it, since people can't tell the difference between "objective facts" and "subjective opinion"
Ratatoskr tried to alienate us with all his might, tapped into every last ressource and investigated all leads. There is no strength left in him to fend off his viewers. In fact, he only kindled our desire to watch his lengthy podcasts and listen to all of his controversial thoughts. Until the last flame fades
Have watched many "lore" videos.
None compare to this one in terms of insight, clarity and succinctness.
Thank you. I've been thinking about making this for years.
It's is so crystal clear in analogies and historical mythology that im bound to listen to it again and again, just as i often replay the Dark Souls series.
I think it’s a stretch to call this a lore video.
@@bossaddict08 It's more than that.
also what is Hidetaka Miyazakis central overarching theme about all the foot fetish in his games? what is Miyazaki trying to convey?
The message reads:
"Wondrous FOOT ahead"
Curious...
"try tongue
and then visions of love"
dont kinkshame
I like how you've shown Gigachad when saying "godlike".
Finally, someone who also valorizes the symbols of dark souls!
There are a few of us that exist; scattered among the fandom.
All miyazakis games talk about "the dark night of the soul" or "mortal journey" of man beating the emotional brain, old self dying and the awakening of the new self.
I have made a movie/analysis about bloodborne displaying the symbolism hidden in visuals and storytelling.
I appreciate the work that went into this video, but I feel like it pretty severely understates the negative associations fire has in the series, and the positive associations of dark. For instance, you associate Gwyn and the gods with the great minds and leaders of humanity's past, but the game makes a clear point that those characters are fundamentally *not* human - that they consider themselves distinct from, and superior to, humanity. The comfort and safety they offer are those of servitude, of ambitionless stagnation. They wield the power afforded them by their lord souls while sealing away the power of the dark soul that resides within every human, inadvertently causing the very curse of undeath which brought their precious civilization to ruin. Every attempt by the gods to maintain control fails, and in the end, the only one who is certainly alive is the Nameless King - the god who turned against the others and sided with those Gwyn sought to crush (well, and Fillianore, whose dream of a city gifted to humans by Gwyn is fragile enough to shatter at the slightest touch).
It's too much to get into in a youtube comment, but to me, fire represents the lie of a divinely ordered world wielded by the churches and aristocracies of old, which truly only served to justify their own power and their oppression of those they saw as beneath them. And the dark is the frightening, sometimes violent, but ultimately hopeful prospect of humanity being able to forge its own path without the oppressive guidance of our "betters".
I really agree with your disagreement. The masterful use and subversion of these universal themes is what makes Dark Souls so powerful to me.
I feel the reading in this video incorrectly brings it back to those archetypal interpretations that initially seem to be what Dark Souls is all about. But that the player then discovers to not be desirable at all because those fire equals civilization arguments lead to actions that do not serve the main character or the group they belong to.
Holding on to those false ideologies is what caused the burning up of the world. Everything was thrown into that flame to keep it burning, but it never amounted to anything worthwhile for anybody except the gods. And even they only benefited for a while. A long while, yes, but it could never have resulted in something everlasting.
And yet, you are able to cast miracles. Miracles can only be performed if you have enough faith, and they are legendary stories of the actions of the gods. They allow humans to do things they should not be capable of, *through faith alone*. The obvious response to that is "but the fact that humans are able to perform these things at all means that they don't actually need faith or the gods" and you would be correct, except the amount of people capable of that is really, really low. Faith allows those who would otherwise not amount to much to do great feats, those without high intelligence, strength, or dexterity can do more that their limitations allow, thorugh faith.
You also make the grave error to believe Miyazaki is a 13-year-old reddit atheist, he uses Gods as representations of concepts. For example, have you ever been possesed by anger? So angry you look back and are unable to rationally explain how you could think or behave the way you were? And many people have had this experience, so would it not be fair to say that anger can possess humans and is therefore higher than humanity? Boom, there you go, Anger as a god is created. It is not a mere figment of the imagination, created for nefarious purposes, it is tied to reality.
And for as many "negative connotations" Fire has and "positive connotations" Dark has, it cannot be denied what the representatives of these forces actually do. With Yuria you perform a grotesque ritual on a groomed Anri, who has had their ambitions stolen. Every follower of the Dark is absolutely disgusting, living in filth and spousing rationallistic justifications for why they live the way they do. And yet, this the final contradiction of the followers of the Dark, rationallity is not a part of base humanity, it is an outgrowth of the Fire. By reaching their belief that they should follow the Dark and reject the Fire, hell, by even reaching any belief at all, they demonstrate that they have been separated from the instinctive Dark on a fundamental level; if they do reach it they become mindless beasts, no men at all.
such a good read
@@accnt456 but isn't that giving into the fallacies related to beauty, that that which is superficially pretty is good and that which seems ugly is evil? Those who are powerful tend to attempt to make themselves more appealing, thus gwyndolin and gwynovere
@@justinsilverman7152 I think you're getting cause and effect wrong. More opportunities are given to attractive people leading to them having more "power." Sure, they go out of their way to enhance and preserve that beauty, that doesn't really detract from the fact that the average powerful person is significantly more attractive than the average Joe.
But that really isn't anything to do with what I said. I said they were living in terrible conditions and doing terrible things willingly. I don't care about the beauty of the person covered in shit, I care that they're covered in shit. Promise.
I feel as though the lore of the Souls series goes really underappreciated in favor of its reputation for difficulty, I absolutely love how complicated and grey all the characters are. Lothric and Lorian are some of my favorite characters in history for Lothric's willingness to break the cycle his father committed atrocities to continue, as well as Lorian's undying (literally) love for his brother, going so far as to take on parts of Lothric's curse to ease his pain. For all we know, they might very well have been doing the right thing along with their fellow lords. The gods were cruel and ambitious, the cycle had led to an accursed world doomed to repeat itself by burning away the ashen ones. Does such a world not deserve to be put down in favor of a new beginning?
Sorry to get all dramatic, thanks for the video Rata. I'd love to see more analyses like this, especially once ER comes out. The ambition of man and the Tarnished's eagerness to prove their worth sounds like such a stark contrast to the tool of the gods found in Souls. It almost seems as if the Tarnished are the foils to the Ashen Ones, an exile who seeks to overthrow the gods for their transgressions rather than a useful undead, who'll be burnt as fuel and tossed aside. The tone, music and even the aesthetic of ER all seem to promote this heroic tale rather than a depressing one, going so far as to have a dragon tossing lightning just to spite Gwyn.
It's been so long since I've thought about Souls this much, and I couldn't stop even if I wanted to.
For all we know, they might very well have been doing the right thing along with their fellow lords. The gods were cruel and ambitious, the cycle had led to an accursed world doomed to repeat itself by burning away the ashen ones. Does such a world not deserve to be put down in favor of a new beginning?
THIS WORLD SHOULD HAVE ENDED LONG AGO. Gwyn committed a grave sin against nature by perpetuating the Age of Fire, in his fear of the Dark and humanity. This created the curse of the undead, and countless cycles of human sacrifice to perpetuate the power of the flame. It gradually turns the world into the twisted hellscape we see in the Ringed City, and already in Firelink Shrine in DS1, which looks like a lot of the ground has fallen off like an earthquake. The lord of cinder didn't want to link the fire again after being resurrected, because they realized that their sacrifice to "save the world" HADN'T ACTUALLY HELPED THE WORLD AT ALL. Lothric didn't want to link the fire because he learned, and understood that the fire never should have been linked, and it would avail nothing. Myths and symbolism about the fire of civilization aside, the age of Dark in Dark Souls wouldn't be a descent into primitive civilization. We know that the early humans of the Abyss were civilized and advanced enough to forge their own weapons and armor in the Abyss, see the Ringed Knights. And I think that letting the fire die out would just bring about another age of civilization, the Age of Men. After the age of Dark has passed, the fire will be lit anew, and another age of Fire will arrive. The cycles are like the passing of the seasons in Dark Souls, fire, dark, fire, dark, and so on. Gwyn's insistence to unnaturally extend his age, is kind of like creating an eternal summer.
@@kaspersaldell what if there was a fourth age besides Ancients, fire and dark? What about the age of deep seas/waters that Aldritch dreamt about?
Truly dark souls isn’t that difficult especially the older games. Once you understand how to play them then their not hard just can’t be greedy. Now sekiro is an actually hard game and is so satisfying once you figure out the combat. FromSoft made 2 perfect games back to back sekiro and Elden ring
I agree 100% what a great reading, I would also add that another amazing thing about DS and Myazaki is that just like in Mythology the symbols can take on many layers of meaning at the same time and can also be read both on an individual psychological level all the way up to a a cosmic creation myth, and, again, just like mythology, it has weaved itself deeply into our culture by the way of the people these stories have affected, even tho it's "just a game".
It's also neat how From software games have a kind of loose mythology associated with them. Even their games pre Miyazaki.
I always thought that linking of the fire were the most emotional of all endings of Dar Souls 3. No dialogue. No other chatacters. Just you, barely burning and looking at an eclipse that signify the end of the world. Absolute beauty. And sorrow.
As someone who got in to Mon Hun through Dark Souls its very nice to see your takes on the series.
Same
@@motorradmicha got into dark souls through monhun, thanks to ratatoskr. Playing DS 1 rn, I really missed out
Also got into MonHun because of the Souls series! Well...kinda. My younger brother and I would watch one another play Dwrk Souls for hours, then he told me I had to try this game that's kinda similar, let me play his copy of MH4U very briefly, long enough for literally the very first quest (he was raised an only child and it shows), hated the controls on 3DS, and vowed to come back to the series if it released on a console I owned. 3 years later, and World was revealed! Played the shit outta the demo, immediately noticed many similarities, fell instantly in love with MH.
I’ll be honest I went from monhun to dark souls, and I’ll be truthful that really helped the process of getting used to dark souls
@@alwest4472 tell Hey Jay! that. Lol!
The feeling of dread and hopelessness this series has is amazing, guess I'm playing through Dark Souls again lol
Great video, btw
Tbh you should make more "the themes of" content. It's a deep worthwhile niche that don't really see anyone else getting into.
I've been doing a write up of Souls philosophy myself lately, I love your takes! Here are some thoughts, with much adapted from my own writings.
One of the major themes of Dark Souls is letting go, accepting that life is ephemeral, the only constant entropy and change, and that attachment and want will only lead to suffering. There is sacrifice, indeed, but one at the expense of mankind. Our lot is to be used as fuel to lift a decaying world out of the fetid quagmire of it's own stagnation. I feel another one of the core themes of Dark Souls is about the ceaseless and fruitless striving humans have to find something beyond our reality. Something numinous. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of dark. It's humanity finding their place in a universe built off of their backs, or ashes in this case. A cold, dark, and very gentle place. I feel humans in Dark Souls were always hopelessly doomed and lost between light and dark. Artorias' cut quote has never left me: "Thou art strong, human. Surely thy kind are more than pure dark." I recall humanity sprites, and any hex having to do with humanity really, and notice the darkness is always tinged, no, surrounded with white. Yin and Yang are then inescapable comparisons for me.
When I read the works of Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, he talks about the only escapes from suffering, want, and the Will being sagedom (which in his case was eastern buddhist asceticism, which parallels in the path of the dragon in the souls series). I recall humanity, the dark, and it's dangerous and uncontrollable yearning. It seeks out life, and devours it if left unchecked. As in item descriptions, it is jealously, perhaps love. Above all, it is *want*. Humans are burdened with this darkness, and though at times gentle and serene ...it's yearning can go wild within us, and destruction and corruption is inevitable. Schopenhauer goes on to explain that only very few can actually become a sage, but that there is hope for the rest to escape. That escape is art. The captivating and liberating feeling of forgetting ourselves and our world when we are immersed in something beautiful. This art comes from inside us, we create it from our very essence. Our suffering, joys, sorrows, our very humanity ...is what art is an expression of. When I think of the painter girl, and Gael's wish of a home for his fellow dark stricken creatures painted from their very dark souls ..I am amazed at how closely it aligns to Schopenhauer's philosophy. Perhaps it is because the Souls series borrows much from eastern and buddhist philosophy. I truly believe From Software are the best story tellers and artists in the industry. The complexity and subtlety of their narratives aren't just inspiring, they reach into the core of what it means to be human.
Thank you for your video and analysis, you do great work! Mayst thou thy peace discov'r.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's made a connection between Dark Souls, Schopenhauer, and Buddhism.
This is the only channel on YT that can make any kind of sense regarding Dark Souls lore. To say it's appreciated would be an understatement.
All miyazakis games talk about "the dark night of the soul" or "mortal journey" of man beating the emotional brain, old self dying and the awakening of the new self.
I have made a movie/analysis about bloodborne displaying the symbolism hidden in visuals and storytelling.
Is this the best Dark Souls lore video or is it just me?
You, sir, have successfully upended my opinion of the Light and the Dark within a span of 15 minutes.
Good job.
I'll keep casting my Abyss Sorceries and Hexes, though.
This is an actual original take on the lore I haven’t heard yet and it makes SO MUCH SENSE. Fits perfectly! Well done!
Im watching this because of your meme
Haha me too!
i really appreciate how you connected the things in the story with real world/religious examples. not only is it amazing to see as a metaphor but its something i havent seen other lore videos do, explaining rather than telling. i would love to see more dark souls vids like these, maybe ds character focused vids or even other fromsoft games
Great souls found in the first flame explain the metaphors the creators of DS are working with. Fire is 1. Light (Gwyn), 2. Chaos (Izalith) 3. Death (Nito) and our separation from darkness (the dark soul)... That you are able to control fire, able to put it out, as a descendent of the pygmy is very much linked to that metaphor.
On the right path... it's funny you mention some ancient myths, 9:11 those myths contain the slaying of a dragon for the birth of civilization, the image you use shows just that... as much as fire was important for the creation of THE WORLD, in fact, much of the cosmogony of ancient myths was also focused around water, what the greeks later called abyss.
Love how you go in depth with this, been waiting for another vid with anticipation and you don’t disappoint lol
Facts! Most CZcamsrs have focused on the literal aspect of the Lore.
The rabbit hole goes way deeper than that.
Literally the best lore video I’ve ever seen, precisely because it dares to look beyond the lore and seek true meaning. Bravo.
This video made me understand and appreciate Dark Souls in a way that no other piece of media or lore explanation video have ever done before. I can finally comprehend the true meaning of dark souls, party due to the way clearly and professionally express yourself.
Unfortunately that comes with the downside of not alienating me which me makes me very disappointed so the video gets a 2/3
Really fantastic video ratatotskr, can't wait to watch your sub count blow up in the coming months. Always putting out consistent quality, keep up the great work!
This was a great video, I hope you keep talking about anything related to From software games.
Now this is amazing! Dark Souls and MH games are my favorite of all time and it is a delight that i can see both covered on your channel. DS lore is very deep like you can finish the game 10 times thinking you know everything but 11th playthrough will surprise you. Where as in the first few playthroughs we focus only on surviving. What a master piece! Thank you for this interesting video i will look for more 👍
This video was PHENOMENAL
Loved the cross analysis of themes of the game and mythology and culture
This is the kind of thought provoking stuff I associate with your deep dives into games
Great work as always
Hope you keep doing metaphoric story content. You have a great way of presenting and discussing topics and themes. Very entertaining.
This is one of the best Dark Souls lore/story pieces on this platform. Thank you for sharing it with us
Uhh I didn't know you had lore videos this good. About to go watch the rest of them
This is a GREAT video! Seriously I hope these will blow up one day!
Good job mate, really insightful video
If you let the Firekeeper extinguish the flame and begin the Age of Dark, she can see tiny new flames flickering in the distance. When civilization has crumbled but Humanity continues to exist, can people eventually find new meaning, create new order and new stories?
Awesome Video man! I'm glad, that I found your chanel
This was actually very good. Thanks for the post reminding me to watch it.
Your take on the story is great especially the way you presented it
I come to the channel for ypur thoughts on the games, i stayed for monster hunter and most for your thoughts, i love your content. You present your thoughts very well and i lernead a lot about pasta souce also ahah but man i see all your videos keep going.
I just discovered your channel. Wow, very good video, i hope you will do more videos on symbols in dark souls if it's what you want to do.
currently binging your vids after recently discoveing your channel (noticed some repeats lol but its ok), cheers to you for such interesting and sensible perspectives!
6:49
Gospel as spoken by an obstinate follower of Kaath. One of two serpents who pointed the 4 Kings toward the Dark, ruin, and madness. Yes, I will believe their perspective as gospel and not just another liar (or zealot) attempting to manipulate a being that could be the one that holds all the cards.
7:04
A forlorn fragment of a would be king fallen to despair and pessimism at his own failure.
I have cause to believe neither of these entities because both of their views on this topic are screwed by their perspective on the subject and not an earnest assessment. There is a reason that the Pygmies did not live within The Dark in DS3, but merely near it. Man is not of the Dark, Man is born of shadow, the grey in-between the light and dark. Pulvis et umbra sumus. The humans that live in the golden times of an Age of Fire, and the hollows that arise from the coming of the Age of Dark are just two extremes away from their natural state which lies somewhere in the middle.
Frankly, I do like this. 9:57
But the assertion that no one found value in preserving the world is flatly wrong, and we can go over the lords (the only ones who matter) to see it.
Lothric: Was convinced to let the fire to fade by an outside force (presumably by Sulyvahn, but that detail is unimportant.)
Yhorm: Lost himself in his grief and rage and went mad, but made sure to leave his friend with a weapon to ensure he keeps his vow to link the fire.
Abyss Watchers: Tainted and driven mad by The Abyss (The Dark) which they had sworn to destroy, and when you find them they are actively attempting to purge it (the only way they know how).
Aldrich: Was always only interested in indulging themselves. Its implied Aldrich had been forced to link the fire, instead of it being their choice.
Ludleth: Was essentially a pygmy and went to the thrones to perform his duty and await the others... who never came.
Three of those five actively did care about the preservation of the fire, two were hampered by their circumstances (self inflicted or otherwise), and the only other one worth considering was convinced by a mysterious teacher to allow the flame to fade. To say none of the lords found the world worth preserving is just incorrect...
As for your conclusion, well, yes the fire will eventually fade. The Theme of Dark Souls has always been "Inevitability of Decline". No matter your goals, no matter your intent, eventually everything trends downward toward corruption and destruction. Though I will admit this is from my thought that the question DS is ultimately asking is "Should you fight decline, or accept the fall and risk chaos to build anew?". To which my answer is always "link the fire". I do think that linking the fire at the end of DS3 is the correct answer to the question Dark Souls is posing in general, for many of the reasons you listed about what the flame actually represents. Even if we partially disagree about what The Dark represents and the origin of Man.
Very interesting and well done video. I think you are on to something when you talk about how the flame is an allegory for civilization. I was introduced to the souls series through dark souls 3 and I. not knowing jack about the series's lore really, was confused by a lot of the item descriptions at first. But as I kept playing the undertones of what I experienced, the story, the atmosphere, the exploration and level design all gave me vibes of a civilization or culture that has fallen into decrepitude.
I originally saw it under a slightly different lense than what you bring up in your video.This culture, once great and beautiful, had been eroded by a long history of perhaps moral degradation, maybe even losing it's identity along the way as new generations deviated from the old in ideologies. And the people who created it and respect it, wanted to keep it as it was, resisting inevitable change to their ideal. And so, with each new consession on their original culture, each new generation that thought just a bit differently, the old teachings began to fade, being slowly replaced by new ideas and technologies.
I especially got this feeling from reading the miracle descriptions which often mention how they lost much of their power since the age of the gods. From reading the descriptions it makes it more clear that miracle builds aren't supposed to be as strong as many other options because many of those old teachings had been lost or replaced.
This all culminates when you link the flame, and it made me think, this is the last group to actually try to keep the original ways alive. Looking at it from a real world comparison, it's like how the Amish still do so many things as our ancestors would have. They live like people in the 1500s-1700s would live. And even the Amish have made cultural concessions over the years. Some even use electricity and combustion engines in a limited capacity now. There are other examples, both modern-day and all throughout history too. These people are seen both by themselves and others as the last holdouts of an older and different way of living. Slowly being integrated into the new way, but still many cling to the last remnants of the culture and way of life they hold dear, being afraid of or just not wanting to change, believing that things are better left as they are.
I find that this theme of resisting changes versus accepting and wanting them is deeply ingrained in us as human beings, and therefore also across many different stories as well as history itself. They are different types of logic that often clash and clash hard, having a huge huge impact on civilization and culture.
That was my initial impression of Dark souls 3 and its story and it hooked me on the series and the lore and extremely unique experience these games give you. Since then I have taken deep dives into the lore of all three games. I got DS 1 and 2 as soon as I could, (would love to get Demon's souls too, but no ps3 or ps5 either unfortunately and I plan on playing Bloodborne and Sekiro maybe later on, because, frankly, I have feeling I would struggle with those with my current skill even though I know they will probably still be fun.) And I burned the stories into my very soul it seems. I have watched probably hundreds of hours of souls lore videos by now. So many different takes on such a specific subject have lead me in different directions on the lore, all seem probable and definitely interesting and engaging. I have never before had such a deep interest In a story, and from the huge quanty of content concerning it, I am most certainly just one tiny drop in a gigantic ocean of lore obsessed weirdos and I love it. It is absolutely amazing how such a big and vocal community could grow over such a relatively small and niche franchise certainly at its beginning. I mean case in point, I have maybe commented on one other video on CZcams before I had my fateful encounter with the souls series, and now I find it hard not to join in on souls videos if I have the time.
Miyazaki you madman, you made an introvert who barely ever talks to people in person irl, even friends, write a comment on a CZcams video that is basically a mini essay. It is these sorts of things that truly set FromSoft and their games above the rest.
And thanks for making this quality content Ratatoskr, your videos are really good even when compared to the likes of Vaati. I hope your channel continues to grow.
Beautifully made 👌
Great video ! I've watched countless videos about Dark Souls and I was always bothered by people obsessing about the plot rather than the metaphorical meaning. It's like assembling a puzzle and not bothering to look at the end picture.
The world is a wonderful place, it gave us stuff like Berserk to Dark souls, but its amazing how ten years later dark souls 1 alone, still stands strong against the test of time. Sure a game, is a game, but nothing hits harder than the philosophical and psychological questions that come from what little information we do get in a strange world.
Emptiness, darkness, loneliness, and your awareness of said things may effect how you view the game. Dark souls beat me down many times but i learned how to survive. A fellow sun bro helped me learn to look up at the sun even in such a grim world, he was like a polar contrast to those who give into the darkness, he gave me hope.
Nothing prepared me for the day I found him past a bridge, having a little bugout. If he had not passed on his knowledge and the hope he instils in others, then his ideals in such a world would have died out. if he had not passed on his courage, i would not have had enough humanity nor courage to let him rest.
Dark souls will never stop being amazing. Thank you for sharing your ideas :) this one really reminds me of Max Derrat! Stay Yellow!
I feel like I have seen a similar analysis before or I just think the same as you when it comes to the meaning behind the fire and the dark. Either way this was a good video and I always enjoy videos about Dark Souls, hope to see more from you.
Your take on the fire being civilization is actually pretty interesting from all angles
Looking at Izalith as a separate civilization or culture makes this clear.
It tells the story of one civilization destroying another because of one culture’s differences not conforming to the standards established by the other.
Anyways great video, love your take.
Wow, your take on that makes so much sense! In lore, the chaos flame was created out of an ambition to recreate the first flame. Thusly, creating a “new first flame” entails the creation of a “new civilization.”
The flame came out differently and more chaotic, yet it still produced new life, and a culture was formed around that life.
My first playthrough I forgot completely that the game even had a story this video has given me an even greater sense of awe towards something I love thank you
Love your lore analysis, my dude. If you can up your output, I bet you’ll give Vaati a serious run for his money - such is the quality of your content. I’d love to see and hear your take on Bloodborne and Sekiro too. Please keep up the great work!
amazing video man!
Oh shit, joining the Souls Lore boi's, ey?? Good to see! I love your content and I didn't know that THIS is what I have been missing in my life until it happened!
I'm watching this after playing Elden Ring and the part where you talk about how "Order and civilisation is built on the body of dead gods", made me think a lot about Godwyn the Golden and his body at the base of the Erdtree. Sent me into a bit of a manic frenzy trying to link them and trying to understand any connections... still have no idea but so interesting!
Godwyn was an unwilling martyr for a new age. Ranni orchestrated the hit on Godwyn, which led to Marika causing the shattering, which called back the tarnished, which set forth their quest to conquer the gods and start a new age. The gods would not be conquered without ranni being aware and it would be her chance to get involved and start an era of her design. However, the tarnished has the option to choose the new order. So that quote kinda correlates to Elden Ring if you choose a new order that the current civilization can carry on, or if you count a new potential civilization with ranni's ending. A better comparison is that human ambition is left behind when gods die. In both dark souls and elden ring, when the gods die or become silent, when everything becomes stagnant, there will always be someone with the ambition to change everything
its the age old myth of how empires are born, maintained by the constant sacrifice of their people and eventually fall when their people are no longer willing to sacrifice themselves for their empire.
Love the take - especially the meaning of the Unkindled
Great video, I love the angle you chose to use. Theme reading and analysis is often missed when talking about a piece of art, as we tend to get lost in the lore and miss the real message or questions about human nature behind it all.
Would you consider doing a similar thematic / metaphorical reading of Bloodborne's story as well ?
Yes! The problem is that Bloodborne is definitely the hardest to interpret out of all of Miyazaki's work. And it's the one whose origins (lovecraft) I know the least.
So with Elden Ring news being at an all time high and the months of research I'd need to do for the video, it's hard to justify. I will get to it one day though.
Great video this is the type of lore i want
I finally found someone articulating what I've been thinking about while I'm in the shower.
Damn, poor flame. I kind of like to think all the Embers you get (and how much easier it is to get embered than humanity/effigy) is the desperate first flame trying to give the Unkindled all the help it can as it convinces itself that this can't be the real, final end.
Damn...that was really good.
“But the thing I love the most, is…. Little Babies Ice cream..”
*cues creepy music*
Hands down the best dark souls' lore video on the internet.
I never watched these when they originally were uploaded because I couldn't beat DS3 (Nameless and the Twin Princes broke me). I'm currently in the process of revisiting the entire series, hopefully culminating in me beating DS3 and watching these to hype me up. It's working. This is really good stuff.
What an amazing video. thank you
You can take from this that Miyazaki believes the healthiest way to keep the world going is a pendulum swinging between civilization and base humanity to reset the world and allow another civilization to arise. That keeping one civilization going generation after generation causes it to burn out or become infested with corruption. Alternatively, or maybe just as I'd put it, leaning too much on order and the status quo or anarchy and bold new ideas while shunning the other causes this fading/corruption.
13:54 to 15:53, made me stop what I was doing. Thank you Mr. Ratatoskr
BASED AND RATATOSKR PILLED, jk lol, great presentation m8 o7
I checked it out! Really good perspective to consider.
I love all of this. Finally.
Thanks for the excellent video! I've had the same view of the DS trilogy for a few years now and I see very few people touch on the story in such a way. I have often seen criticism of Dark Souls 3's story because of the seemingly lacking story it has. There are several snippets of lore and character stories that seemingly start a story of sorts but suddenly go nowhere and there are some fans that do not like this. Though I can certainly understand that criticism, I feel that they are missing the point. Dark Souls 3 has so many loose ends because the world died. The point of the game is to try and say "The world has ended, that's it, there is nothing more. There are no more stories to tell, go home". The First Flame has all but finally died, and it has taken everything with it. The only thing left to do is to give it the chance to go out gracefully and let it finally burn out.
In Dark Souls 2 and 3 we see the Dark associated with peace and silence. It is even brought up by 3's Firekeeper when we hand her the eyes, saying to us as we leave "May though find your peace". That is the point of Dark Souls 3, a dark and quiet end, bringing the peace only death and the turning off of the lights can bring.
I have been in love with your narration style for some time now. I decided to go back to the beginning of your page to try to understand where you have come from and see how I can apply that to content I would like to make… video essays on games and such. I am inspired by you, Jack sather, and nakeyjakey. Each of you have incredible scripts and edit your videos in a way that feel both genuine and contain very little fluff or fat as I like to call it. I’m curious as to where your writing/ content creation background hails from. Did you major in English or do you just enjoy writing? I feel I’m a good writer but I fear writing scripts. Do you have any advice for a fledgling content creator? Thank you again for your videos and your time. ❤
Dark Souls, in all of its janky rushed glory, is my favorite game of all time. There is a depth that cannot be put to words.
I just wish I understood why I don't feel the same fondness for the other games. Demon's Souls and Sekiro stand taller than the rest, but that intangible feeling is lost almost entirely in Bloodborne. Maybe one day I'll understand.
Love the reference at the end. One of DS3's endings.
By far my favorite take on the lore of these games
underrated channel
The symbolism in dark souls in my eyes is that fire is hope, faith. And the dark is a lack of it. Every darken places crave for fire, it craves for meaning, for hope and faith, all things that are intrinsincally human. There are definitely metaphors that link Dark Souls with myths but the core element of both are just life fulfilment and emptiness. In the end, even the human race will likely not be preserved and go instinct. Every single human dies, old people die around us and we pretend not to see to not face our own mortality. The fire is a fight against dark, a futile fight you may say, but it's the fight of life itself against death.
Poignant symbolism emblematic of our times. We’ve seen the rise and fall of many civilizations and now are reaching a point where we may no longer be able to link the fire any further. A chilling warning indeed
Alienate? If anything, all this video did was confirm to me that there are others who see the series the same way I do.
the unkindled being undead that failed to link the fire makes even more sense when you consider why we have to collect the ashes of the other lords, i think that the first time around we tried to link the fire on our own but weren't "enough fuel" and therefore we have to get the other lords of cinder to helps us out in that part
When you drew a parallel to Ab Lincoln, I couldn't help but continue down that rabbit hole. I imagine that it's a cautionary tale of what's to become of the human race should men turn their backs on society. We are seeing more of that in our time. I then ask myself(and I ponder this often). Are we meant to be exist in cycles of rise and fall? Or will we overcome that with a sustained effort/rise in consciousness(if that's even possible).
Subscription earned.
I never before thought of Yuria's quest to wrest the fire from its gods-ordained Kiln as a metaphorical description of modernity's rejection of the sacred, yet while still retaining the fruits of sacred history (cities, gothic archiecture, etc.). The civilising (civil, civis, city) industrial power of de-sacralised myth, simply with secularised human lords of man, instead of gods as lords of man. Here she represents the ascendance of 'merely' human concepts: of atheism, agnosticism, enlightenment, progress: "our" world, where gods no longer dwell. If Gwyn is Sauron, Yuria is Saruman; efficient, brutal, industrial.
Fire makes light, "light is time", and time can only record entropy/decay. The decay of all urbanism in DS3, both in the Dreg Heap tending toward the tree-stump of the Kiln, and in the arborialisation of human corpses, is the very signal of collapse from civilised man to primal, animal man. Kaczynski and Linkola would feel at home analysing the symbolism of this game.
You've convinced me never to link the fire ever again to bring forward stagnant narratives of dead cities and temples (heaven-haunted civilisation) -- nor to wrest the flame from its mantle to bring vainglory to man's project of thinly-veiled technocratic tyranny of industrialism (soulless civilisation), but to let the flame die and let nature decide when the natural animal-hollow-man may descend from innocence to reason again and destroy all things with his pride.
Phenomenal
So, basically, reject fire, return to dark? (Aka reject humanity, return to monke)
Got me in the feels
Very good video!
Do you think it would be interesting to add the mythological notion of hubris in your analysis? Dark souls is indeed about perseverance and sacrifice to keep a ruined world afloat, but it is explained throughout the trilogy that if this world is in ruins, it is due to the original sin committed by Gwyn through hubris.
Gwyn would rather condemn his world and its inhabitants to a deceptive existence and cycle that will only lead to ruin than let his age die out. Gwyn is afraid of the darkness and drunk with pride, he forgets that nothing can last forever, he is intoxicated by the power of knowledge that the first flame brought him and finally refuses the cycle of destruction and creation, a cycle that is nevertheless essential to the proper functioning of the world (as seen in the painted world that is regularly burnt and repainted).
Where the first flame brings civilisation and knowledge, it also brings pride and pushes men to take themselves for gods and to suffer as a result (a theme that will be found in the myth of the ages of man in Hesiod, the myth of Prometheus' fire or the myth of Adam's apple). The whole idea that sacrifice is necessary for humanity comes from a plot that gwyn engineered to keep his age from fading.
But then Can humanity really survive without the warmth, the civilisation and the knowledge the first flame gives them now that they have been linked to it, can humanity survives with only its dark souls if there is no light ? Can there be dark without light, can there be knowledge and civilisation without nature and human instinct ?
I cry every time I finish DS3
Excellent
Nice video overall, quite the refreshing change from the usual edgelord "fire bad, dark gud" mantra that is parroted by so many lore enthusiasts, but I do find it odd that you'd conclude your video the way you did and not address the elephant in the room of the other endings.
Like, not covering the pure betrayal is okay, you're stealing the fire for yourself because ash seeketh embers and obviously a fire starved unkindled may think that with the first flame his desire could be satiated, but the usurpation and normal betrayal endings seem like they'd require a lot more attention that you've given them.
(Also I don't think it's particularly controversial that fire represents civilization in DS, it's a very common motif everywhere outside of DS and DS itself references quite often the dual nature of fire as a bringer of both harm and prosperity, what warms you and what burns you, etc).
This video was my first attempt at a lore video and I thought it was already getting overly long. I felt addressing the usurpation of the fire warranted its own video I felt.
@@ratatoskr6324 It definitely does, same as betrayal, at least the lighter version.
Really good job for a first lore video :)
Good video :)
I can't believe it was in front of me this whole time and I didn't see it.
I love how the person's name is the same name as the squirrel in Nordic mythology who ran up and down the world tree trading insults between the nameless eagle and nidhogg
13:46 "the lords refusing to light fire is the equivalent to abraham lincoln being revived just to leave" how fucking BASED are these japenese especially considering that him knew that the forced integrating instead of the separation in states/countries for the common peace of the races was the best alternative
So I'm not the only one who interpreted the first flame as civilization! That's so cool. Also I want to say that the opening myth of dark souls is emblematic of a civilization myth, like that of the ancient Sumerians. The god Marduk kills the dragon mother goddess ,Tiamat, and splits her body, making the heavens, the earth, and humans to do labor for the priests and kings. When Gwyn sacrifices himself to kindle the first flame, it is emblematic of cults, as they have a power figure who leads them, creating a symbolic order to alleviate death anxiety. Gwyn sacrifices himself to maintain the first flame because his control will live on, cult + time = religion, the way of white, ect. Its hard not to see burning humanity sprites to kindle bonfires, the corralling of the undead, and the variation machinations to get the chosen undead to sacrifice themselves to the first flame as a deep metaphor for the costs of civilization. Its a death cult, on the other hand the abyss awaits us without a symbolic order, and ego to navigate it, but if one crosses the abyss, there is something on the other side, something beautiful called life. Just some thoughts, love the lore of this game.
I don't know why anyone would deny that the fire represents civilization. Not that I spend much time thinking about the themes in these games but that one is clear as day to me. Great videos by the way.
Edit: My take on this is probably too simplistic, and I am not a historical expert, but add to that that many civilizations have come and gone, and I would guess that some part of their dna remained in one form or another. Some "decayed" over a long period of time like the Roman Empire. Or how about the 250(?) years that Japan isolated itself from the rest of the world? It strictly clung to how things were until it was confronted by the modern world. If it wanted to regain strength in this new world it had to change. What then ensued was a civil war. I might be off with this but maybe someone will be nice enough to correct me.
Ok this was one of the best Dark Souls video I've seen and I'm most definetly looking forward for your future production on the topic.
I'd recommand you to listen to Jordan Perterson's take on egyptian mythology. You really touched the right archetype
Thank you
Brilliant content. Keep it up skeleton.
Your presentation is excellent, but seeing humanity as the antithesis of civilization is a stretch for me, as this would imply that an intrinsically human civilization could not exist, but would need an extrinstically godly civilization to kickstart civilization. I think if I word swap "civilization" with "tradition," I then find your comparison most apt. After all, in DS3, the prior lords of cinder are choosing to stop the linking, which was itself an original sin. Metaphorically, the whole narrative of the DS series seems to me like a metaphor for faith in the gods, who present their governance and morality as infallible and good, versus faith in humanity who are empowerer to create a morality and a world at a loss to the gods' way of life.
Anyway, thank you for posting and inspiring a little imagination in me!
I always thought that the canonical ending of Ds1 is to link the fire and for 3 to let it fade.
Whats also interesting. In the dark ending the firekeeper says "but one day, tiny flames will dance across the darkness"
With this video in mind it sounds more hopeful than without it to me
At first I felt like that means my choice didn't matter
But now I understand it at a new flame/ civilization will appear. Thats our nature
But it's new and not so weak like in the game