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Press and Bench Press Programming - Getting and Staying Unstuck
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2020
- SSC Nick Delgadillo recorded a live broadcast on Facebook going through how to adjust your programming for the press and bench press. Including how to get and stay unstuck. Originally recorded April 9, 2020.
Nick is a Starting Strength Coach and mentor for the Coaches Prep Course that develops professional coaches.
CPC: startingstrength.com/careers
0:11 - Intro
0:57 - Fundamental concepts
5:33 - Principles / adapting / recovering
9:40 - Signs of fatigue and not recovering
11:40 - Not enough stress
14:12 - Press Programming from novice to advanced
21:58 - Frequency for press
24:00 - Different Intermediate programming for press
28:34 - Everything works until it doesn’t
29:49 - Alternating chin programming with press
30:09 - Warming up
32:30 - Setting up a weight range
38:11 - Adding pin press
39:37 - How often do you add weight/reps?
40:38 - Practice heavy singles
41:52 - Volume or intensity first?
43:26 - Changing frequency
45:18 - Each lift progresses individually
47:00 - Shoulder pain
50:14 - Using Resistance bands
53:38 - Elbow pain
54:32 - Practice more heavy singles
57:46 - Switching novice females to triples
1:01:23 - It depends
Incredibly generous from all of you folks at SS to provide all this valuable info for free. +1
0:11 - Intro
0:57 - Fundamental concepts
5:33 - Principles/adapting/recovering
9:40 - Signs of fatigue and not recovering
11:40 - Not enough stress
14:12 - Press Programming from novice to advanced
21:58 - Frequency for press
24:00 - Different Intermediate programming for press
28:34 - Everything works until it doesn’t
29:49 - Alternating chin programming with press
30:09 - Warming up
32:30 - Setting up a weight range
38:11 - Adding pin press
39:37 - How often do you add weight/reps?
40:38 - Practice heavy singles
41:52 - Volume or intensity first?
43:26 - Changing frequency
45:18 - Each lift progresses individually
47:00 - Shoulder pain
50:14 - Using Resistance bands
53:38 - Elbow pain
54:32 - Practice more heavy singles
57:46 - Switching novice females to triples
1:01:23 - It depends
thanks!
I've been using your programming from your article "intermediate programming for the upper body lifts" based on my coach's recommendation for a couple of months now and have seen great results. 5x5 strict press day 1 followed by 7x1 heavy singles on day 2. My heavy singles started at 170 and I am up to 195 right now. It's allowed me to hit lots of PRs and controlling the heavier weight is a lot easier.
How’s the progress, and what would be your warm up for these lifts
A video of great value. I wish you could make a one concerning the lower body movements (squats and DLs)
You guys are amazing. Putting so much knowledge out there for free. Amazing human beings. Thank you so much. God bless you guys
Only 10 mins I have all my questions answered regarding the press. I got stuck multiple times during the last 8 months.
Each time I thought it was recovery problem.
I worked quite tightly with my Food intake, deload, sleep...
But now it all makes a lot sense.
Many thanks coach! :D
Great stuff. I am just running out the LP. This filled in the blanks for me on how to really focus on the press and bench.
Thanks, Nick. Super helpful. Answered every single press programming question I had
Awesome video, many thanks for your generosity in sharing! My press has been stuck for so long, I'm now fired up to try your suggestions
Great vid. Thanks for bringing this to CZcams! Tons of great info.
Thanks for the in depth and really interesting talk about the press. Your lessons learned are pretty consistent with my own recent experience and thought I'd share it here on the chance it interests others.
I started my novice linear progression about 3 years ago. I'm 50 now and still learning how my body adjusts to various approaches for my lifts. I've done the linear progression three times over the past three years after taking time off to recover from various non-weight lifting related injuries/procedures. For the most part throughout that time, I've alternated my pressing and bench pressing days. However, a couple of months ago I decided that I really wanted to be able to press my own body weight for one rep. In pursuit of that goal, I increased the frequency of my presses by adding a "light" press day on my regular bench press days. My light press days are three sets of 5 at about 10% less weight than my sets of five on my heavy press days. My heavy press days also included 1 rep maxes prior to my work sets of five.
When I set my press/body weight goal, I figured it would take me months to attain the goal if I managed it at all, because as you point out in your talk, I found my press progressed slowly and tends to hit sticking points quite regularly. However, with this change in pressing frequency my 1 RM presses increased between 2 to 4 lbs every 4th day (the heavy press day), and I ended up hitting my goal of pressing in excess of my body weight within 4 weeks time. I did not expect to see that sort of improvement so quickly, and I'm certain that it's 100% attributable to increasing the frequency of my pressing days.
Once again, the best info on the internet in regards to strength training.
I'm currently pressing 1.5 times per week, 2 sessions heavy and 1 light every two weeks. My work sets are 1 heavy Triple followed by 3 sets of 5 at a 25lb deload, moving up 2.5lb per heavy session. The light day is %80 of the last heavy top triple for 3x5. I have been doing well with this as an intermediate lifter with some recovery issues from having a Hashimoto's diagnosis and a very stressful job and home life.
I should be pressing a top triple of 200 followed by 3 sets of 5 at 175 by the end of the month.
Can we get the same for the Squat and Deadlift?
Dear Nick, thanks so much for your effort!!! Great great Video! Never got better Press advice!!! Merry Christmas from Germany
Very useful steps for someone who's just finished a post lockdown LP. Thanks for sharing
Thanks coach. This was incredibly helpful stuff that I needed to hear.
This is amazing, thank you.
Thanks Delgadillo! You saved me!
Thanks for your knowledge brother
This is gold
Thanks, very helpful! Time to order another if Rippetoe’s books
Awesome video
Great video
Thank you for this, the books could be a lot clearer about what to do when you start missing reps.
Four people bought a 12 week template.
I was wondering what that vague reference means, but then I remembered that you banned the names of non grata doctors like Figtree and Dothraki from your comment section. This probably includes your own posts.
@@Huffman_Tree there werw 4 dislikes, not is 7
@@Beeftitan This changes everything
@@Huffman_Tree Dothraki, hahahah. Does this mean cutthroat? I know it's a Game of Thrones reference and I guess it's not a compliment.
@@Huffman_Tree Are the doctors, Lutz, etc also on bad terms with Starting Strength now?
I press around 135 for a few reps when I first started training. Thought it was weak but I hear it's not bad
this is interesting, different from the back off method for older adults. my guess your training motor units and going back to the back off later may work
Thanks for this Nick, really useful further clarification on programming to compliment the books. Please do more of these videos. Would like to hear more about modifying the HLM programme for someone too old for Texas method.
Outstanding
Really helpful
Thx for this
Good stuff guys
Thanks
For the love of all things holy please do a deadlift video
Please!
This video is pure fucking gold thanks mate
48:00
Shoulder issues:
I know everyone hates the Smith Machine... but after a SHOULDER injury, when coming back to the gym it was still hurting, so as Rip says, the answer is NOT to stop using it, it is to KEEP using it and advance as you can, always with the mentality of adding five pounds more as, WHEN YOU CAN...
So I started with the Smith because the bar was too heavy and difficult to control as it went up, I thought about tit and knelt don't undo the bar in that machine, with my CLOSED knees directly below the bar as you would a normal press, I started WITH THE BAR, just so as to move the shoulder, then I added slowly five pounds at a time, with the trick being to hold the bar as you would the press 2.0, similarly I moved my hips a bit forward as I lowered the bar and use that momentum to start the move up, abs hard and ass-cheeks tightened, shoulders back as and upper back tight as you would normal press.
This was a surprised on how well it worked for me, I went to the normal bar in less then a month and a half... now pressing 135 for sets of three; even though that shoulder issue is still THERE, and I have to be cautious as it makes weird noises every so often, I am planning to add the next five pounds in another week and see what happens.
Good luck and hope it helps.
When I found ss 2 years ago my press started out weak. I got 160 for one rep. I'm at 220 now though
Shoulders hurting during press - switch to single arm dumbbell press.
Would love to see more FB streams here on CZcams!
They’re coming.
@@startingstrength that's what she said
Nick, do you happen to have any space for online coaching?!!
I am not progressing on the bench and press at all been stuck for 2 years any advice?
Oh my God there is Starting Strength Coach who started this video that is actually talking directly to me. I'm in my 50's I got to 85lb on the press I tried doing 3 reps at 5 sets and I couldn't do that last July. I just got depressed that I gave up lifting weights all together. I bought micro plates last July and I haven't used them yet. Soon I plan to start Starting Strength all over again.
There is a website that has all lift averages for both genders and age groups. For the press I think the average is 90 lbs.
I hate! hate! hate! videos from Matt Reynolds that they only mention 3 figures on the lifts he never talks to his listeners who just start out lifting are lifting under 150 lbs.
God we older lifters need more videos like this for beginners.
I think I'll just micro load and make 1 lbs to 1/2 lbs jumps on the press. He is still talking to younger lifters with micro plating than older lifters on his suggested his suggested weights on the micro plates. Because 90 lbs is the max in my age group I almost sure. I rather linear progress slower pace with micro plates. Ripp hates the Texas Method for intermediate lifters because he said it's hard. Light Medium and Heavy day would be better for older lifters.
A man in his late 50s can absolutely press more than 90 pounds. That's not the max, that's the average. Don't limit yourself like that.
@@LifeisGood762 He can depending on the type of his or her training program. I frankly really care less about the 90 lbs average. This is why weight lifters can so damn annoying to say the least to older lifters, that most rather care more about having goals for a Novice lifter only in terms of adding weight to a bar than they care about about the same lifter completing their own goals that when they added 5 lbs (because the gym doesn't have microplates) that they only think in a term of a one dimensional plane. Such as when the lifter has just added weight to the bar there is always the perception that the goal of the lifter will be capable of doing of 5 reps at 3 sets without failure. The goal then changes and the lifter tries the opposite goal and does 3 reps at 5 sets and fails at that during the second set. Then the lifter gets really mad that he has something wrong and blames his body that he can't lift the weight and decides to set a new goal altogether and take Ripp's advice out of SSBBT 3rd edition and just give up on Starting Strength all together. Then a person person needs to reevaluate his goals in the gym all together. Like after 12 months from his last training session and losing all the muscle mass that was accumulated from a year ago is back to where it was before he lifted weights and has the choice to let the barbell win for that long or set a goal that when he walks in the gym to work out we he walk past the cardio machines and walk to the one and only squat rack in the gym and pick up the bar again and start Strength Training from scratch all over again or just do his usual goal by increasing his performance set on cardio machines from his last work out?
Shoulders hurt, so concentrating on bench. However max press 175 pounds. 55 year old here.
Hows training going? If it makes you feel better, I stalled at that weight at age 29.
@@senaares6107 thanks for the question, I stopped working out back in September. Maybe sometime in during the Summer I'll get back to start doing cardio. I get off work in the afternoon get coffee and go home to watch TV/ youtube videos.
I'm 63, BW 235, my pr in squat is 5x390, my DL5x405, My Bench 3x5@230, my Press is 162.5 x 5,4,3,3.. I now do because of severe spinal stenosis in L4-5..I Squat 3x5@350-365, DL between 380-405, Bench increasing 2.5lb every week 3x5reps and Press as well
I'm concerned about going back to heavy squat and deadlift
Any feedback?
And buy the book and read it is very necessary to understand this as well.
Anyone stuck on the press needs to get a set of microplates. Got my Press up from 195 to 225 in less than a year. Amazing how the body adapts physiologically to even the smallest increases in resistance.
What if you're stuck on microplates? 😅
@@moeazam6358 trt😂
@@patale1640
bruh 🤣
@@moeazam6358 get smaller ones
@@Train_Eat_Rest_Repeat
yeah I was thinking of a strapping some frozen water bottles to the barbell and using the precise weight of the frozen water in the bottle as a microplate but then I found out I should just start using back off sets until they stop working before switching to 5x3
SS would benefit from more of this type of practical advice vs pretending every failure to add weight to the bar each workout is a result of YNDTP and can only be addressed by the trainee rereading The First Three Questions and A Clarification ad nauseum.
So, the compressed Texas Method for the upper body lasts about a month and then we should start looking at more advanced programming? Would adding more volume via stuff like dips and incline bench (because we can't really just add more bench/press) not help another month or so before we fo over to advanced programming?
You should probably read the book.
🔥🔥🔥
Great video! But I feel like weighted chin ups programming is kind of left out by ss. Like what are we supposed to do after we cant do more weight for 3x5? Or how often should we do them?
Do them for sets of 4, then sets of 3, then doubles, then singles. Rinse and repeat.
@@startingstrength while increasing total sets? Like 4x4 5x3 6x2 and 7 singles?
@@filipposlioukas2892 Yeah. Give that a shot.
@@startingstrength many thanks
@@filipposlioukas2892 did it work?
In your compressed Texas Method.. do you weekly alternate volume benching and volume pressing? Asked a different way, do you always do volume press on Monday and volume bench on Wednesday or would that alternate the next week.
Thank you for this video, and in advance for your answer
Usually leave volume bench on Monday and volume press on Wednesday. It just gives you more time between heavy bench workouts.
Starting Strength .. and with the volume bench creating more systemic stress than volume pressing.. more recovery would be necessary before Friday’s intensity day comes around.
Correct?
@@roninmethod That's the idea. Depending on how good/bad your bench is, it may not matter, though.
What is “not enough stress”?
The Stagg in the background!
32:20 I totally agree. Getting from 315 to 405 was not nearly as tough as getting from 405 to 500. Honestly I’m not sure I have the energy to spend 2 years getting to 600 without quitting my job, and I can’t do that so I might just maintain and train like an old man for a bit
9:25 Bottom 3% checking in
Nick, how much testosterone do you take per week?
Hello. Thank you for the video. I noticed one thing- you are always talking about systemic stress. Doesn't localized stress matter at all? Anterior Delt., Coracobrachialis, Clavicular head of the chest etc.
🎉
Stagg JR!!!
Interesting that Nick goes right from "sets of 15" to a Texas split. Wouldn't moving over one set at a time be a smaller change?:
3x5 / 3x5 (LP)
4x5 / 2x5 (what lies within)
5x5 / 1x5 (Texas)
So you can keep the intensity up on the volume day a bit longer.
Nope. Because reducing the weight enough that you can complete a set of five undoes everything discussed in the video.
@@startingstrength Don't you need to drop the weight a fair bit to move to a 5x5 from a set of 15 though? For intensity day I didn't mean doing exactly sets of 5, but just that total volume of reps. So it would be
15 total reps / 15 total reps
4x5 / 10-12 total reps (or whatever)
5x5 / 5-8 total reps (or whatever)
Sorry. Misunderstood your question. The difference is that when you go to the split, you’re adding a second pressing day and benching day. The additional frequency is key. Going from alternating bench and press to twice a week bench AND twice a week press.
@@startingstrength Sorry if I was unclear. My question was: *after* you go to a split, why do you immediately put the press volume day (say Wednesday) at 5x5 rather than run 4x5 for a while while peeling a bit less total volume off of press intensity day (say Friday)?
My two guesses at an answer are:
1. "Yeah you could, but honestly it doesn't work for that long so might as well just jump to 5x5 right away"
2. "It's too stressful to have that many reps on intensity day when you're also doing heavy bench"
Anyways, thanks for the video. You guys regularly put out great content :)
@@Bakeshop88 Yeah, the problem then becomes one of too long of a workout. So this way strikes a nice balance.
"Mid to low 3's" well apparently I'm doing everything wrong because I just hit 220lbx5 after starting again in January
Did you make it to that range yet?
Didn't quite get the pin press bit. On the 4 day split we replace 5x5 strict press with pin press?
Nope. Usually you add it on a third day if pressing. For the big pressers it can alternate as intensity day with regular press. But that’s not most people.
On the lower body day, I see. And reps and sets?
@@bobbobson4030 Usually a rotating single heavy set of 5, triple, and single.
the liq in the back though ;)
is it Monday bench volume, and wednesday Press volume, and bench recovery?
Can I. Press. And. Bench. Press
Can you show me the ab split thanks for this vid great info
Buy the book
Squatting in the mid 300 after 3 months? Ain't no way that's the average number in people who never trained before
I'm having trouble with my breathing during my sets. Once I lose abdominal pressure, I'm toast, so I have to figure out how to breath during my set.
You don't.
You do something called a Valsalva manuever, watch the SS video about it
@@Francesco-cj3oi Yes, you do. You breathe during the set, in between reps.
You don't breathe during the REP. That's the Valsalva maneuver.
He said snatch
Computer programmer...that's me.
sea of info for free which probably nick can earn loads of money for saying. thank you!
Does this work for over 62
It sure does.
stops working at 61 every single time
Every time it’s tried.
Does using face cream impact your press programming?
Thx for including girls in your talk!
Upload all your various audio streams to Spotify so can leave CZcams forever. Is that selfish of me, sure... what's your point?
22:29
"... everything only works for a certain amount of time... if you're pressing 135, ah, 135 to 155, 135 to 165 represents a large percentage of relative to any of the other lifts, so ah, so what I mean by that is that the complexity of the programming is gonna have to move along a little bit quicker, [hitting a total number of reps of let's say 15]... so the next change you're gonna do is to increase the frequency, right?, two press workouts every week..."
Hey nick, if you read this... is this accurate??
I mean don't ALL the lifts have a similar range where if you reach it, that is a large percentage of how much you're EVER GOING TO LIFT??
Like, the squat, most dedicated bros can reach 225, and A LOT FEWER can reach 315, and yet a whole lot FEWER can reach 405, and an incredible SMALLER number can reach 495 [personally I have never seen anyone in person doing that, 495, though i have seen a few do 405 including myself, and I am now at 455, and increases are very hard to come by, in fact DECREASES to recover are more likely, LOL]... my point is that you say RELATIVE TO THE OTHER LIFTS and I didn't get clear what you mean by that, since all lifts have a similar range where people drop off exponentially.
So I see that 135 to 155 is not a larger percentage since 0 to 135 is a larger percentage than 135 to 155... I can see that 135 to 155 are some of the last INCREASES anyone's ever gonna make, it's only 20 pounds!! and is much smaller than 0-135... seems I misunderstood something here... would you care to expound??
Related to this, in you're experience, are those last 20 pounds worth it, from 135 to 155?? If you got to have so many ducks in a row perfectly aligned just to achieve it, are they worth it, in your experience?? From cero to 135 you pretty much go lift, have decent technique and you get there; meaning that even at 155-65 a person is hardly top competition material.
I think the internet skews just how few people can squat over 500 or bench over 350. I see so many on youtube that can do it or more(and people in the comments always act like they can too) but in reality I have been to a dozen gyms in the past 10 years of lifting and I have only seen a handful of people that can do that much. Most of them where definitely on gear and the rest where just built big.
@@randybobandy9828 it depends where you workout- in my gym a 70 year old deadlifts 252kg, and two 60year olds bench 140kg for reps
Me ,doing 1.1lbs jumps on the press, and feeling like a little girl 👶
It works though
15:23 WOW! Shots fired
This guy says to add 5lbs to the press each workout, Mark says that this will absolutely lead to failure and is absolutely wrong. Who should I believe?
Find the answer within yourself. Go in peace.
focus on mark's two books rather than youtuber...
this guy seems to be talking about maintaing volume with level of intensity by splitting up the later sets rather than de-loading... that's the first 30 minutes of waffle...
What age are you? There are 2 books Barbell Prescription for older lifters and PPFST. You can micro load for your press for LP and then your going have to choose your intermediate program.
mark is talking about 3 sets of 5, the guy is talking about how to progress with sets and reps, while maintaining adding 5 pounds a workout
The real question is how's that Stagg Jr treating you.
👌
My press goes up the easiest, I'm at about 220 now lazily training it once a week.
220 max?
Do you Drink Gallon of milk every day?
Milk get you strong)
have you ever seen a man who was drinking milk from the bull and get very strong and big fast??
Lol
@@HooDRidEWhiteY
Yes Bull Milk is better then steroids 2 times stronger anabolic effects)
If you try to milk a bull, you get kicked in the head (I've heard) and then dragged through the meadow on a sightseeing tour where you can see each blade of grass up close.
Dude make it more simple I don't want to sit through all this shit
Just quit because you don't train anyway
How about some preparation !? Stoping and starting in mid sentence doesn't make for a" listenable" video.
It was a live Q and A dumbass!
Made this annoying mouth sound every minute or so. Zero consideration of the listener
wot?