Time Television: Lost Lore and Design Development
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 23. 07. 2024
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We're back with a new series, delving into Doctor Who's prop history and script development. Only the merest dash of Daleks this week as we examine how Terry Nation came up with the Time Curve Visi-Scope, which later became the Time and Space Visualiser. What did Nation intend for it to tell us, and what was its function in the plot? - ZĂĄbava
âMuch in the same way as children in your day made crystal sets.â I played with one in my 1960âs youth, fiddling with the catâs whisker in an attempt to get a semi-decent signal. How many kids today even know what a crystal set is?!
I do and Iâm 15
Did you teach any of your kids about them? Or any of your friends' kids? We're about the same age and I don't know a single peer who did so with their spawn, and as a lifelong bachelor who's been careful not to breed with any of my temporary partners I've had neither the opportunity nor interest in doing so. If the older generation doesn't teach this stuff, or at least try to instill some interest in it, most kids won't ever stumble into it. Sure, the internet could teach them easily enough, but it's also full of billions of other things to learn or experience, many of them of more practical use to a child in the 2020s.
@@edwinsalisbury83 Kudos. Can I ask where you learned about them?
@@richmcgee434 A combination of the internet, the library, and school
@@edwinsalisbury83 Interesting. Not, I notice, a parent or other relative. My grandfather taught me about them way back in the Sixties, but he was also an electrical engineer by trade and had a fantastic collection of tools and gadgets, some for work, some just for tinkering.
The Viziscope privacy issue was the focus of a story by either Issac Asimov or Ray Bradbury. It was based around a historian wanting access to the machine (which was closely controlled) and after a lot of issues the historian makes his own and itâs pointed out by the government that âwhen does history actually startâ (so a millisecond after something has happened, itâs âhistoryâ) and boom⊠there goes all privacy.
The Dead Past by Asimov. The BBC adapted it for an episode of Out Of The Unknown in the sixties
@@solarpenguin1 An absolutely brilliant episode, very sad and moving. There are links to the ancient deity Moloch to whom children were sacrificed by fire, and the protagonist wants to see the past to find out if he accidentally killed their child in a cigarette-ignited house fire. I think it has one of the actors from Seeds of Doom in it, who was also in similarly poignant time travel tale The Flip Side of Dominick Hyde, and Jackson off Underworld?
the Viziscope privacy issue reminded me of another (similar?) story by Stephen Baxter and Arthur C. Clarke called The Light of Other Days. Its a story about the development of wormhole technology that eliminates privacy in the present, and later in the story it's adapted into a viewer into the past.
There's another story called "E for Effort" where two inventors accidentally invent a Viziscope like device. They use it to make hyper-realistic historical films, but that's just to get enough capital for their real plan: exposing the corruption in the government. It...doesn't end well.
I read this story . I thought it was profound and true, although government being inefficieny would be a blocking factor to the total loss of privacy
I always take this as an explanation of the Fourth Wall break in Feast if Steven.
He knew The Time Lords were spying on him so decided to wish them a Merry Christmas
Nice idea đ
Dude, you just blew my freaking mind!
Wholesome and mind expanding. This is now canon in my head đ
The only problem with that idea - is why would the Time Lords care about a local festival like Christmas?
Also explains Tom and Capaldiâs fourth-wall breaks. I love it! This is now my personal head-canon!
Makes me giggle just thinking about the Timelords seeing that on their screen. I imagine they probably wiped the tape of that adventure... đ
The ending of this story clears up a line from The Sarah Jane Adventures story: "Death of the Doctor".
Matt Smith's Eleventh Doctor tells Jo Grant that he never came back for her, because he couldn't find her as she travelled all over the world all the time. Then he lists things she has done, but how would he know if he wasn't able to find her. I believe now that he tracked down Jo on the space time visualizer and saw her achievements that way.
Talk about "Mr Smith"
@@williammitchell4417 Why would the Doctor randomly sneak into Sarah Jane's attic to figure out through Mr. Smith what a completely different companion is up to? That makes no sense.
@@timrob12 I mean have you met the doctor he rather went to lagaffe less than simply popping back up to Gallifrey to fix the Chameleon Circuit I mean it's after the three doctors of The Deadly Assassin so he's no longer wanted criminal and even in the war games they didn't care about him stealing the Tardis that cared more about him interfering
@@plantainsame2049 Even now the Timelords haven't called him back. I know they're dead, but still.
@@timrob12 yeah but I'm talking about specifically when the fourth doctor was trying to fix the Chameleon Circuit he wasn't on the best terms of Gallifrey I don't think but it wasn't like he would have been dragged to jail like the first two they don't care that he stole the Tardis probably because it was already about to be junked it is old and he has been all but pardoned for his interference why didn't he just go to Gallifrey and say hey can you help me fix my Chameleon Circuit they would probably do it as that would probably prevent some of his interference have a bunch of caveman seen a big ass blue box with glowing orbs on it
Finally, ive been waiting for so long, recently been rewatching your stuff recently, and its all as infinitely funny, gripping and impressive as i remember, welcome back
Thank you. Glad it was worth the wait!
Whoever wrote this is an insane genius. Best thing Iâve watched in ages đ
He is a nutter with too much time on his hands.
Thanks for another fascinating episode.
I do think we can all get over-obsessed with internal consistency at times, even though those moments of seeing behind the curtain when it breaks down are fascinating and instructive. With assorted writers on a long-running TV series it's difficult to achieve internal consistency even on the most mundane soap opera level. As soon as you introduce Science Fiction it becomes almost impossible. It would have required a concerted central effort and the willingness to ditch great story ideas simply because they contradicted a throw-away line of dialogue from an episode broadcast months previously. We would all be the poorer if that had happened.
We also always have to remember that the average viewer of the 1960s was expected to see an episode once and probably never again. The chances of them being able to pick up inconsistencies with an episode they saw weeks ago was slight and the chances of them being able to check their recollection even more remote.
As with the wiping of tapes, unless we try to understand the position of the people concerned at the time then we are selling them, and us, short. No one at the time conceived that people would want, or be able, to pore over populist TV episodes over half a century in the future. They were simply trying to produce a well-crafted, intriguing and entertaining diversion for a Saturday evening.
I appreciate the fact that you are always reminding us of that human factor.
The fact that we still find such TV productions fascinating and worthy of study is a tribute to the maker's skill and imagination but, for them, an entirely unexpected side-effect.
Great to see the series return and I think this is one of the best episodes yet. I particularly liked how you were able to move from discussing fine details of the propâs design and construction, to how those aspects relate to the seriesâ mythology.
Weâre pleased you enjoyed it!
It is really nice to have ya back after 2 years although this video was so well made it's like you never left.
Iâm happy to see another of these amazing videos! Also I Love The Chase Clips giving a beautiful 1080p up scale treatment that deserve to be part of the Season 2 Collection Boxset when it comes out. Amazing work from You and TheMindRobber.
Also *Banana!*
On this case⊠all The Mind Robberâs work!
Wonderful as usual!
I didn't even quite realise it was two years since the last one, just feels like a couple of months ago!
Nice pfp
Fantastic video, amazing work on some of the ambitious visuals! Very entertaining and insightful
Thank you!
I can't say how delighted I am that you are back.
Iâm so glad to have another video on this great channel! Terry Nation is such an amazing writer Iâd have loved to see how he wouldâve written stories with the bigger budgets!
We are glad to be back!
@@Dalek6388 this has made my day even more awesome!
clearly ian and barbara's fascination came from the fact that Dr. Who built a time-travel-related device that actually can find its intended destination for a change :P
Great video. So much work has gone into this - it's much appreciated for us to enjoy. It's great having a new episode on the channel đ
Glad you enjoyed it!
Finally they return! An incredible video as always. I eagerly await future installments (perhaps something on the Barnadoâs props?âŠ)
Thank you. And yesâŠ. Maybe đ€ đ
I LOVE The Chase, one of my favourite Dalek stories (possibly my #1)
Amazing to see your return! I was literally rewatching your Cushing movie videos yesterday! I hope this is the start of a new run of your one of a kind content.
Yes! More to come!
Today is now a great day, THE Dalek is back.
Edit: I was eating a banana watching this a second time.
Also, thank you for the fascinating information between The Chase and Asimov's Caves of Steel series. They're some of my favorites and I never new Nation wrote adaptations of them or that they were shown on the BBC. It would be amazing to see those if they hadn't been lost. Who knows, maybe some day more lost footage will be found.
Thank you and fingers crossed!
There's an episode of classic sci-fi anthology series Out of the Unknown that covers the issues raised by having something like the Space-Time Visualiser. The episode is "The Dead Past", based on an Isaac Asimov short story of the same name, and it's about a group of people trying to figure out why the government is so obstructive when it comes to the use of a device called the Chronoscope, which allows viewing of any past event. It's only towards the end that the characters truly realise what it means to even have such a device, and that the government was genuinely working in everyone's best interests by suppressing it. But it's too late: guides on how to make it have been sent out into the wild and now anyone can build one, effectively destroying privacy forever now that anyone can view anybody at any time.
Another interesting couple of links back to Doctor Who: Terry Nation wrote an episode for it, adapting The Fox and the Forest by Ray Bradbury. Sadly it's now deleted. Another story mentioned in this video, The Naked Sun, also got adapted into an Out of the Unknown episode.
Oh, and BANANA.
Ah! There it is!
I've been watching your videos since the Remembrance of the Daleks video. Glad to see you're back!
We are happy to be back too!
Great to see you guys back with a new episode, detailing the finer points of the Dalek episodes. Well done.
Thank you đ
It's possible that the STV was connected into the TARDIS 's systems, which would then, in turn be, connected into the Matrix. Therefore it is quite possible that the TARDIS's telepathic circuits were used to guide the STV to the exact point in space-time the user wanted to see.
OK, this idea might seem slightly "Banana"s at first sight, but it does make sense.
Welcome back! Love this idea of a âtoyâ that really changes perception of the lore. Keep an eye out for the Bananas!
Excellent. Glad to see you back on great form. Especially with the detailed explanation about the difficulties of visualising the past.
No wonder the Doctor in early years could barely steer the TARDIS if you use the same premise.
Banana.
when the world needed him the most, he returned :)
Great Video! I wouldn't get too confused about our solar planets on the outer ring of the Visualiser, its most likely the Visualiser operative controls work on many levels and that the doctor only placed them as main dials as a tribute to his human companions.
The voyeuristic aspect of the Time Lords is kind of implied by their having a Panopticon with a big Eye at its centre, too. It's their viewing gallery to keep an eye on all creation, isn't it?
And the Daleks still caught them napping :)
I came for the thumbnail but stayed for the content, which I found thoughtful, creative and insightful.
I have missed this channel. Welcome back to youtube. I had assumed in the Doctor Who universe there was extensive use of telepathic interfaces. So things like the time viewer (and TARDIS controls) were merely props to allow for people to concentrate their thoughts on but the real control was done with their minds. This allowed untrained people to control complex items based on technology beyond their understanding, such as steering the TARDIS. This also allowed for a form of AI to interpret the requests of the time viewer to get the correct vision based on what the user was thinking.
The time space visualiser was a gift from the Xerons (Jeremy Bulloch and co) from the previous adventure, The Space Museum.
There was a copy made too, by the Xeroxes ...
I like the thumbnail - she was the best companion.
What a fantastic pair they made.
Welcome back. One about the different Dalek mutants and their design, canon status and studio production would be very, very cool.
Back with a banger. What a great video. Don't fear Big Brother is watching you, be afraid the mysterious time travelling Doctor is!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I remember seeing a draft of this on Patreon last year, great to see it completed, great work as always
Thank you! And thank you for your support too!
Been eagerly awaiting an upload from this channel. And you have delivered! Great job!
Thank you! đ
First video I've seen of yours, I LOVE IT! I saw that you just came back from a hiatus, please keep making content! It's really good!
Thank you. We're glad you enjoyed it! We have more to come and don't forget to check back over our older videos too
I was ridiculously excited to see this video had appeared. Fabulous, as always. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed!
I was literally eating a banana when I skipped back to read all of that! Youâre amazing :)
Amazing as always! So glad thereâs another episode! đđ»
Fantastically researched as always. Brilliant.
Great to have you back. And with such a deep dive into this deeply weird invention to boot! Your research is very much appreciated
Thank you Matt đ
amazing - so glad to have you back!
Excellent video, I knew there would be a series 2. I can tell a lot of research went into this video, I do hope we can see more dalek videos.
Thank you! Yes we have more to come!
The Time and Space Visualiser was given to the Doc at the end of The Space Museum, yeah he was repairing it and should have asked Vicki for help. But what's interesting is, it's never mentioned again (as far as I know, Classic Who is tricky to check, as so much is still missing), but oddly a Time Scanner was mentioned in The Moonbase leading into The Macra Terror, so maybe the TASV was incorporated into the console some how, as it wasn't seen again (as far as I know, again) in The Time Meddler. (If anyone has a 'spare' copy of the Program Guide from around 1990, I would like to see it, as I no longer have access to my own one, or the updated version either). Pictures on the scanner to temp the travellers outside also happened earlier in The Edge of Destruction and then were followed by a visual representation of the journey due to the fast return switch.
Just remembered this chanel yesterday, and now boom, a new video after two years
4:23: Yeah, that is a creepy thought in more ways than one!
A few years back, I read this book, _The Light of Other Days,_ written by Stephen Baxter with Arthur C. Clarke-and yeah, the inventors do get personal with it! And in response, so does civilization: if privacy is dead, why bother hide _any_ activity?
But the scary part of the notion is if young Time Lords consider putting together something like this device as childâs play, and if the device works the same way as the device in the Baxter/Clarke novel via the controlled use of wormholes, then the universe is in trouble indeed!
Another story worth a read is John Wyndham's "Pawley's Peepholes" (originally "Operation Peep"), with time tourists starting to appear to check up on their ancestors - us. They're intangible, so sit on coach-style seats that can pass through your walls. I think they're initially inaudible but later can be heard offering a running on commentary on what they're watching you do! There is a backlash (a surprise in the story I won't spoil). The narrator posits later they might have discovered invisibility, so are still watching, but why worry... Frank Bellamy of Dr Who illustrations fame has a link to it: www.frankbellamy.co.uk/2007/05/pawleys-peepholes-by-john-wyndham.html
I love that there can be a half-hour documentary about a prop from 50 years ago that's basically a TV with a fancy frame around it.
Wonderful, a real treat of DW trivia, neatly wrapped on the theme of the TSV. Great visuals. Ideal for a rewatch very soon.
Literally just started re-watching your stuff today, what a coincidence and a nice surprise
Pleased to have surprised you!
Amazing to see you guys again
Very enjoyable! I spotted this in my youtube recommendations, and presumed it must be an old one. How wrong I was. Glad to see you're back (even if only for a bit...).
We have some more to come!
fascinating stuff, as always, this is such an insightful series.
Absolutely superb and really makes you think more about the mind of the writer(s) and what they were thinking about when they wrote the initial draft of stories. Thank you and wow I can't believe it's been two years since your last video.
Thank you!
Maybe Ian was so impressed with seeing Lincoln because he knew the odds of seeing him in person due to fact The Tardis never goes where they want it to go.
The return of the king
Superb, as ever. Always loved how the prop is made of those banana shaped sections around a hole for a monitor â€ïž
"Yes I'm back with you" and we are all so very grateful for it
So glad your back !! Love this channel !
Happy to be back too!
@@Dalek6388 Great first episode to another great season!
14:45 - so the Doctor invented âWhat Three Wordsâ⊠(Or perhaps he should call it âWhat Three Worldsâ). Thanks for the upload, great insights as always. đ
Thank you!
No wonder the Doctorâs so worried about browser history with all the snooping heâs been doing. Glad to see one of my favourite series on CZcams back, long live the Terry Nation Army!
Thank you!
In "The Light of Other Days" by Arthur C Clarke, the implicaions of a Time Visualiser are clearly explored. I would suggest that reading this bookwould give considerable food for thought.
It's been a long time, but the master has returned.
I'm glad you're back!
Happy to be back too!
So many good points brought up in this.
Good to see you back!
Itâs good to be back!
Love it! Welcome back!
Thank you!!
Yes, youâre backâŠ
Always look forward to one of these
28th of April my birthday and I love these videos what a present this was!
Hope you had a great birthday!
@@Dalek6388 Thank you! I did :)
Wonderful to have you back. Excellent stuff as usual, if a little âbananaâs
Great video - especially the bit about Shakespeare and Francis Banana.
My first time on your channel,fantastic stuff. Great pick up on the device and fab ideas. I like the end of Wheel in Space too but that's more of a recording and a neat way to a repeat episode,almost a fourth wall break đ
It would take a clever writter to use this device again but we can hope. Will definitely tune in for more.
Pleased you enjoyed it. Check out our other videos!
@@Dalek6388 Will do,and many thanks.
Fantastic video, and well done slipping in that shot of Nyssa. đ
The return of Dalek6388? Oh wow
Another great video. I thought the visualizer prop had an interesting design that reminded me of a United Jukebox. Thanks for the fun content
Maybe the labels as per Terry Nations original design are written in psychic ink, so you always see a button that has what you need.
Also, if the scope is (possibly) reading the personâs mind, it knows exactly what they are interested in. (Shades of âthe momentâ because it can see your thoughts).
I have often thought a lot of this - glad it wasn't just me :) - I did wonder why the planets of OUR solar system were listed around the screen.... SO good to have you back... great video, as always, really interesting and rewatchable :)
Thanks Simon!
In modern terms, if that ring was a liquid crystal display, and the planet names change depending on the solar system being viewed...
@@Dalek6388 Oh, Banana :)
Bannana , even thought this ep was not purely on the Daleks I did enjoy this and would love to see more on the prop side from any Dalek story tbh, I loved this and the tiny blink and you miss it gags, my type of humour, also nice attention to detail on the theme, that way we can tell which series we are watching hopefully in the next 5 years when binge watching it all , it was almost like a remix, looking forward to more
Cameron
Thank you! We have stuff more prop based planned đ
Interesting stuff! I loved the Time Space Visualizer and it's one of those things that seems like it was in a lot of early Doctor Who episodes despite only appearing in "The Chase". The item certainly made it's impact at least and it's nice to learn about some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on with it :)
Came back for a rewatch to spot some of the extra little details. Nice touch for the original Visualiser concept having a mix of classic and nuwho planets.
Also, banana.
LOVE IT! Welcome back, guys.
Cool new intro, too!
Thanks Richard! We are pleased to be back!
Insightful as always.
đđđ»
Excellent as always. Would love to see something from the first movie covered one day!
Keep those eyes peeled!
@@Dalek6388 with the 4k remasters of the movies releasing soon that would be a great tie-in video!
@@jadelock302 Good point.
@@Dalek6388 :D
"A list of 30 billion planet names to be written on the control panel, which would require a really small font" killed me. excellent delivery
I love how the thumbnail changes.....
I love it that there are people in the world who take Doctor Who more seriously than I do.
Welcome back!
Having recently listened to the Big Finish audio story âThe Fourth Wallâ this video felt oddly topical to me. In said audio story the sixth doctor uses the time-space visualiser to watch a cricket match from 2006. Itâs probably one of those things you just shouldnât think too much about, but then again if it is supposed to exist and work as it does in the Chase there are unavoidably a lot of questions that could be raised.
Banana.
Another excellent video, and well worth the wait! One thing: about the time space visualiser making a mockery of The Deadly Assassin, the Doctor points out in Brain of Morbius that a Time Lord could place a barrier around their mind, so perhaps it's useless on Gallifrey? I know this doesn't fully account for The Trial of a Timelord but whatever.
Well, that was an absolute delight - and the discussion of privacy issues related to viewing past events have me seeking out a copy of "Other Days Other Eyes" by Bob Shaw. Also, banana.
I was always confused about the use of "Mars", "Pluto" etc on the visualiser. Regarding the accuracy of the views of Shakespeare and Lincoln I would rationalise it by suggesting that the visualiser had a telepathic component that was able to work on what the viewer was interested in seeing.
The little "plectrum shaped" dials for each planet look adjustable, and since this device was developed on Earth, is it possible that these are directions settings from each planet? You'd know where you are at any particular time, where the planets are, and thus it would be a big triangulation (or nine-ulation) to anywhere in the universe to get the chronon-gathering beams to intersect... Or maybe it's a joke about astrology.
"If you really want to nitpick (and who doesn't?).."
I resemble that remark!
I love the cheeky Easter eggs. What fun!
Great vid about this story, imaginative and thought provoking đ
Thank you!
This a fantastic video!
And it would have been amazing to see The Beatles dealing with Daleks. It would have been so strange and cool to see that.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it!
good to see you back
Glad to be back!
He's back, and it seems not a moment too soon.