1963 Triumph TR4: Will it RUN and DRIVE after Sitting 10 Years? (Part 1 - Thanksgiving Special)
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Time for the 2023 PHAD Thanksgiving Special!
Crank up the Beatles and don't miss the first James Bond film in theaters: "Dr. No" . We're going back in time to 1963!
This year we have a very special car to reanimate after 10 YEARS of storage.
My friend inherited this 1963 Triumph TR4 roadster from a family member.
His mom actually DROVE this very car when it was brand-new in California!
Let's dust off the Imperial wrenches and take a trip back in time before scanners and digital technology...
Can we get this vintage Triumph back on the road with almost NO PARTS REQUIRED?
Happy Thanksgiving!
Ivan, you can’t call yourself a proper car guy until you know everything there is to know about SU’s especially multis ! You also have to be able to talk about them without stopping, for hours !!
Ivan ,couple of things,you may need to know,firstly never ever do up the brass heads of the dampers with a spanner,they require only gentle tightening as they have a finer thread and its brass into a light alloy and damage very easily ,
Secondly,the brass nuts at the bottom of the carbs are the jet holders,and also serve as the mixture adjustment method,and again do not require to be done up fully so by screwing them in what you have done is weakened the mixture to a point where I doubt the engine will get anywhere near enough petrol to run ,so in order to re set the jet height 1st remove the dashpots by taking out the three screws and lifting out The pistons,whilst they are out check them for smooth operation,then looking down from above take a straight edge and place over the jet in the centre of the carb,and hen wind the lower nut downward until the top of the jet is level with the central jet housing,that gives you your baseline setting,then wind the jet down another full turn and a half from experience that will give you enough mixture to run reasonably well when warm ,good luck.
And Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
Cheers Coggins.
Spot on 👍👍❤️
Ah! SU carburetors. Takes me back to my mini days.
Aren't the moving choke "stems" linked to the jets, and the external nuts just the gland seals for those, in that type of setup? (It's over 40 years since I worked on SU carbs, my memory is a bit fuzzy with the details).
I miss working on old cars like this. Everything was so simple to work on.
This brings back memories of helping my college roommate change his brakes on his TR3. Funny story: Big snow storm was forecast and college required all students to remove their cars from normal parking area behind the gym before storm to facilitate snow plowing. We moved my 57 Chevy and his TR3 behind another building and went to shovel them out after the storm. Due to wind pattern behind that building, my car was clear of all snow while his car parked next to mine was buried in a huge drift. Snow even got inside his car through cracks between side curtain windows and the convertible top. I can't repeat his words that day!!
😂
Watching this made me recall my father's car, a 1951 Morris Oxford. It was built like a tank.
I worked in a foundry as a die caster and used to cast those adjusters brings back good memories.
The "loose" part on the bottom of the carbs is the mixture adjustment, which raises and lowers the needle jet. The "choke" also lowers the needle jet to provide enrichment. You'll need to set up the mixtures once you get it running.
I adjusted it from "leaking gas" to "not leaking gas"... Performance and fuel mileage were greatly improved 😎
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Fair point, it's clearly a lot better than it was.
If you ever have to work with SU carbs again tuning procedure is pretty straight forward. Most of them have a small "pin" that lifts the piston/needle assembly slightly. With the engine warmed up you lift the piston with the pin and note the change in RPM. If RPM immediately goes up and stays up it's running rich, so raise the jet. If engine speed decreases it's a weak mixture, so lower the jet. You are aiming for the RPM to initially raise slightly and then settle back down.
@@ferrumignis great tips thank you!
You should get a glass fuel bowl from a vintage tractor part supplier, a lot of 1960s tractors and trucks had this fitted in the UK.
The engine in the Triumph is indeed the Ferguson tractor engine.
The fuel pumps were made by the AC division of GM. Used by most British car and engine manufacturers the top part of the fuel pump comes in different styles that can be swapped between over to mix and match the bottom part of the pump however is tailored to the engine type.
Ford 8N had that identical glass bowl
I would think the missing glass bowl might be in the trunk (boot), under the seat or some other storage cubby. Maybe its with the missing air filter assembly 😀
The local NAPA here stocks the fuel; bowl,screen, gasket, and retainer bail. You just need to know if you need the short bowl, 2" diameter, or the tall 2 1/8" one.
The e-brake is referred to as a "flyoff" handbrake that you can use to apply the back brakes without locking it in place for competition purposes. Later triumphs went to a standard ratcheted e-brake. Try not to hold down the clutch when starting the car. Put it in neutral to start it. holding in the clutch is hard on the thrust washers in the engine. Nice car. Nice video. @grandadfixit
Noticed a Hanes manual for SU carbs in the box . Give it a read ! The screws you thought were loose underneath are the main jets hence them being moved out when the choke is applied to richen the mixture , Looking forward to the next installment !!
The fuel pump with filter glass bowel looks a lot like the ones used on Land rovers up to Series 3.
I remember, lowering and heightening the main jet, all this coincides with the leval of fuel in the float chamber,
Lower the jet down just below the level of the fuel line in the float chamber, would richen the mixture, go upwards to leaken, lol, takes me back all this, great comments...
There is a brake adjusting spanner for those, very old school ! but much, much better than that stupid thing you do with a screwdriver ! Needs new piston rubbers, you used to be able to get kits but not anymore,in England
@@bigfilsing you don’t want glass bowels mate !
@@CrimeVidYou'd have a smashing time on the toilet.
Great looking Time Capsule. Beware of Lucas, The Prince Of Darkness. He Will show up during your maintenance. 😂
That TR4 takes me back. My dad drove a baby blue one back in 1965. Can you picture putting your 3 larger than average boys 5-6-7 in that back seat? Sardines in a can had more wiggle room. Then add your wife holding a newborn baby in passenger seat? After dad got us all shoehorned inside, he climbed in, looked around and regretfully announced, "Guess it's time for a new car." He eventually gave in, sold his beloved TR4 and "stepped up" to an Opel Kadet wagon, smallest station wagon available. Fond memory.
Wow that roadster must have been sitting pretty low to the ground 😄
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics And going slow. lol.
That engine would be designed to run on leaded fuel so will need a additive to protect the valve seats unless the engine has been altered to suit unleaded
Would the old lead shot in the tank work?
If you know the right people, you can run down to the local airport to get avgas. It's still leaded for at least a few more years. But it's getting replaced with an alternative eventually. My local airport was known for letting people with classic cars fill up. Got to be careful because you aren't paying road tax when you do this.
It is so frustrating knowing that Ivan recorded this maybe weeks before. Putting unleaded "gas" in that engine will damage it, in particular the valve seats. It needs 98 octane leaded fuel.
No, I've tried that. You get fine atomized lead powder that just clogs up the carburettor .
The previous owner drained the gas from the tank and the carburetors as well as removed the fuel bowl for storage.
It’s probably in the boot…
Or underneath that Haynes manual in the box 😀
Fascinating how what was once univeral knowledge - like manual drum brake adjusters - becomes lost in the mists of time...
When I saw you contemplating trying to start the motor with those two open float bowls full of gas I pictured a backfire coming out of the carb(s) and setting things on fire. I’d put the tops on the bowls first or at least make sure you have a good fire extinguisher handy.
This advice from a guy who many years ago singed his hair and eyebrows when he got to close to a 4 barrel Rochester QuadraJet carb with the air cleaner removed while my friend cranked it in an attempt to clear a flooded condition.
The new fuel injected vehicles just aren’t as much fun.
Wow. That car was loved. I thought you were really gonna have your hands full, but it's pretty easy to tell that it's just about as perfect as it can be for it's age and the amount of time it's been stored. I can't believe how easy it is to work on. A buddy and I drove his TR6 from Iowa to Arizona and back during spring break in college back in the day. It ran fine, but the tiny size of the thing spooked me. It seemed like a go cart. Looking forward to part 2.
The bowl actually looks like the same size fuel sediment bowl on old farm tractors.
exactly, that engine started life on a Brit farm tractor
Triumph bought engines from Ferguson Tractor.
I don't know if it would be the right size, but you can get the whole fuel sediment bowl at Tractor Supply.
My experience is that if the engine has been sitting still for a long time it's worth to hand crank it mildly forwards and backwards a few times since the piston rings could cold weld to the cylinder bore - or just rust could make then stick to the cylinder. It's not the end of the world, but it would be a bugger if you crack a piston or oil ring. I cracked one of each once by cold starting an engine that had been sitting for a long time.
The "loose nuts” on the "plunger" you tightened up are to weaken or richen the fuel mixture. This plunger is the fuel jet inside the carburettor. Screwing them up will significantly weaken the mixture. As a rough setting try turning both nuts down (to richen) by hand equally about 6 of the "flats" of the nuts. There should be idle speed screws for both carbs acting directly on the throttle linkage these need to be set the same number of turns. Also stick your finger inside the throttle mouth and check that the piston moves up and down freely. There will be a little resistance. Once you have the car running you will need to balance the carbs so that they open at the same time and by the same amount. See the manual. There are no rubber diaphragms inside the carbs as suggested previously, those were fitted in Stromberg carbs NOT SU's
Keep watching 👍
In my youth worked @ a Portland OR import warehouse entity that picked up Triumphs @ the dock and drove them to warehouse where they were cleaned up and prepped for delivery to the local dealer network. Safe to say we beat them with out mercy. They say TR 3/4 had same base power plant as Ferguson tractors.
Company I was employed at had two TR-4s that ran D production in SCCA divisional events, I got to chase parts, favorite was a 67 TR-4a w/Targa top, American alloy wheels, it would do 110, proved that quite a few times. Obviously this vid brings me back.
The handbrake parking brake is the type known as a fly-off handbrake design for getting you off the starting line quickly
Much more convenient for handbrake turns 😊
These young kids have never met a 'fly off' handbrake! Pull it up and hold the button in while releasing the lever and it will stay up. Pull without touching the button and it will release. Simple!
For the fuel pump issue I'd set up an electric pump and a filter instead since those old mechanical pumps can sometimes stop working when they are old.
SU carburetors shall have ATF oil for the piston. Adjusting the mixture is a bit tricky and they have to be balanced first. But using a hose as a stethoscope to make sure that they have the same airflow then the mix can be adjusted. Mix is adjusted by adjusting one carburetor and then lifting the piston of the other with a finger. When the engine is equally rough for both carburetor piston liftings everything is in balance. But the type of choke they have has a tendency to cause the mix to get garbled every time the choke is used so a slightly rich mix is recommended.
The SU carburetors are so called constant velocity carburetors which makes the fuel mixture pretty good over a large range of throttle openings which in turn gives a decent fuel economy. The pistons on them shall be cleaned now and then and just thin oil or dry lube with PTFE to keep them sliding and avoid oxidation of the bells and pistons since they are just sealing between the bell and piston by precision, there aren't any rings or membranes involved there.
It seems to me that the person that stored the vehicle actually drained the fuel from the system to avoid old fuel clogging it. So nothing is really wrong there aside from the missing glass bowl and stirrup. It might be hidden somewhere in the car under a seat or so.
These Austin Power type of cars have such a charming character! Thanks for getting it back into roadworthy condition!
Great blog and presentation and most importantly classic British triumph 👊🇬🇧❤️,, oh happy thanksgiving to our American cousins 🇬🇧🇺🇸
😱😱😱 I cried first when you used a big adjustable spanner on the damper pistons they should only be hand tighten then when there was a leak you turn up the mixture jet screw right up which will make the petrol too air ratio very weak 😮 , there’s a book in the cardboard box you should have read before messing with something you don’t understand 😮 with today’s modern stuff your the tops but with the good old stuff that I have worked on for the last 60 and still do infact my 1972 MGBGT and my 1967 Vitesse have these carbs and I love them for the simplicity of the , I’ve the same type of petrol pump on both of my 1934 Jaguar SS2 with the glass petrol bowl great and easy to see if any dirt in 😀 love your videos and watching every one ❤️
Ah, memories! Had a TR3 back in the early ‘70s that should have killed me several times (very light rear end). Even the front end ball joints rusted through and collapsed. Amazing that I found one in a junk yard, swapped out and kept it going. Strong little engine, fun little car! Have fun and happy thanksgiving!
This brought back memories. Now I'm really gonna show my age. Late 60's we were the only shop in South Saint Louis that did import repairs. Triumph, MG, Jaguar, Opel, Daf, Morris, Mercedes,and the Japanese vehicles; we worked on it all. I have an aerial picture I took of my shop and there are 28 vehicles in the to be worked side of the lot. Totally unreliable but kept us inn business.. Watching this installment, I'm sitting here laughing and thinking; be thankful that this TR did not have wire wheels that seized to the hubs!
That takes me back to when I was working on cars more often as a teenager. I've spent many, many hours on SU carbs and Lucas electrics, back then!
Funny how the one system that hasn’t needed work so far is the Lucas electrics. 😆.
Oh we'll get there 😆
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I did say “so far”. 😆I know Joe. 🤣
All those nice corroded aluminium bullet connectors 😀
Those SU carbs bring back memories of my V8 1970 Rover 3500S, they were quite troublesome.
Cool ! Old school! Happy Thanksgiving Ivan, and everyone. 👍👍🇺🇸
I had a Datsun 240z with similar carbs. The nuts you were turning on the bottom of the carb were actually the mixture adjustment on mine.
Triumph is one of those unique brands that has a cool factor to them regardless of what you think about the engine and quality they put into them. Cool ride. Thanks for another Holiday special Ivan! It’s a holiday tradition for me.
That Triumph looks mint
I have a storage locker just about that same exact size, 10' x 20'. It really looks like that Triumph is well taken care of and been sheltered in place for the 10 years it hasn't operated or started. My storage unit costs me $286.50 a month. In ten years, it will cost me $34,380.00 total to store my stuff.
Edit: Spellin'
My father-in-law just sold his '63 TR3-B. The entire electrical system diagram fit on one 11" x 17" sheet of paper.
That's a real beauty. Thanks Ivan!
A "Never Start" battery! Nice dome top SU carbs!! Sediment bowl like an old tractor. ATF works well in the SU dampers. Those "Loose nuts are to set the nozzle height. Now that's a fun project! Thanks Ivan!
The missing part at the fuel pump is called a "SEDIMENT BOWL". It is glass and is used to capture the larger debris that may come from the tank. There is a very fine screen with a gasket at the top that will stop everything but the smallest particles. Any material that gets through will not cause a problem in the remainder of the fuel system. They were universally used before paper filters were developed. They are readily available from tractor supply houses and good auto parts stores.
Great video, this car is a gem. After sitting 10 years you must always put some fresh engine oil in the cylinders before cranking. It will then spin easier and won’t score the cylinder walls
i had an almost identical car! red 1963 TR4 with wire wheels. those lever arm shocks were the bane of my existence. really fun car.
glad to see he has a roll bar. glad to see the SU carburettors as well. i used to use ATF in their shocks.
Lucas- the Prince of Darkness! why do Brits drink warm beer? Lucas refrigerators! Lol
I`m in the U.K so I dont know if you can still get leaded fuel over there, but it will need a lead additive in the fuel due to it`s age, or a valve seat upgrade.
Great point! I will let my friend know 👌😊
I use Motor Medic Lead Substitute from Advance Auto Parts in my old car. Hard to know whether valve seats have been replaced, unless it was documented somehow.
You can still get leaded fuel.
Thanks for the video! That footwell makes your shoe look huge! 😄
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family Ivan.
After reading the comments below and watching this fine video, maybe my dream of owning a TR4 should be forgotten! Regardless, it's another PHAD great video!
Michelin XZX tires. Talk about CLASSIC.
That's what I was thinking, I haven't seen them since my dad's 1979 ford Fiesta
In 1974 a friend and I drove his TR4 around Australia, 13,000 miles in 30 days. About 4,000 miles was on dirt and gravel roads. Amazingly the wire wheels stood up to it without issue. Lack of ground clearance meant we kept the muffler in the boot (trunk to you) and only fitted it when the Police told us to! One stretch of 350 miles, we only dropped below 100 mph once, to negotiate a "T" junction. Typical British car, built like a brick s**thouse. (That means built like a tank.)
Amazing! 😎
Love the mirror on the front fender, but pain to adjust if your by yourself LOL ! I'd drive it 😀
People who owned one when they were brand new asked themselves whether it would run and drive...every day.
LMAO! Good one!
I miss my '60 TR3. Always wanted a TR4, but the 4A with the IRS. Too old now for "Lucas, the Prince of Darkness" though!
Ivan, Thank you! Always enjoy the holiday specials!
Nice car! 👍😁 One good thing about the old days. You could put a lawn chair in the engine compartment when you were doing some work there! 😂
my uncle used to show Tr4's and 5's here in Australia people are crazy paying for an original battery and paying for it to be brought back to working order again.
PHAD meets VGG!!! Sweet! Way back when I was a green tech in Cali., I worked for a truck and RV shop. When the owner decided to retire and sell, a European parts guy bought it. Next thing I knew I was pulling Jaguar transmissions and Triumph cylinder heads. I do not allow European crap in my shop.
I drove a 64 Triumph Spitfire in college. This brings back memories.
Besides a missing part, the TR4 seems in great condition.
It has a hand brake, not an ebrake Ivan.
Yes. Or a parking brake. These brakes were never for emergencies.
Cant wait till part 2. I want to see if it runs. Sounds like one cylinder has much more compression that the others.
Sweet car!! I’d say the carburettors were cleaned out of all fuel for storage hence the looseness of some of the components. It was certainly cared for and now it’s getting the once over from the bloke who if he doesn’t know something he works it out or reads up on it👍
Big brother to my '63 Spitfire way back in '71... Brakes, U-joints, ignition, SU carbs, and JC Whitney catalog if anybody remembers.
What a tease !!
That is what is known as a Flyoff Hand brake. You pull up on the lever and press the button to latch it then while holding the button down release the upward pressure. To release the brake simply pull up slightly and then lower the lever. Good for hand brake turns. After sitting for 10 years you need to get a set of tires no matter what the tread looks like. Possible have flat spots but almost defiantly have cracks in them.
So a Lucas positive ground system? You'll definitely need the gas sediment bowl , its gasket and bale.
Nice car!... had a 59 TR3, a 69 Spitire mk 3, 71 Triumph Gt6, a 79 Austin Mini....loved them all
Even the 59 TR 3 had front disc brakes!!.... a decade ahead of the US sleds.
Someone spent serious money having that car restored.
The two nuts at the bottom of the su carbs are to adjust the fuel mixture. By tightening the nuts you will depriving the engine of fuel as a result the engine will keeping cutting out once hot and choke is fully off. Fuel pump is mechanically operated from the cam shaft. Check the arm on pump for wear as if there is wear it won’t have a full stroke and therefore have reduced fuel delivery.carbs need to balanced and the fuel mixture adjusted using a gas analyser.
Happy Thanksgiving 🦃
These cars are so awesome, simple and sexy at the same time. Love to own one myself some day. Once you get it sorted it will be fantastic on nice days to cruise to local shows and enjoy.
OMG! Ivan is going the Vice Grip Garage route. Pretty soon he’ll be saying “will it start and drive 600 miles back to State College!
The handbrake on this car is a "fly off" type, for adventurous driving you may want to momentarily lock the rear wheels without the ratchet engaging. The button enables the ratchet.
In the late 1960s I owned an MGA with those SU carbs. I was fortunate enough to find a mechanic who knew how to adjust them properly -- he would balance them by listening to each through a piece of radiator hose. Unfortunately, he was constantly changing jobs, moving from one shop to another. Any time I needed work done I had to call around to find where he was working at that point in time. Also hope your friend has better luck with the Lucas electronics than I did -- mine were a nightmare, something always going wrong.
Man that car is in real nice shape ... I should be so lucky to inherit a car like this
Ivan that is a competition fly off hand brake you pull it up and push thee button in to lock it up , when on the start line you just tug on thee leaver the button pops out and the leaver drops saving a couple of tenths of a second
Lucas, the Prince of Darkness!
That’s a really cool car and my birth year
You guys did great just buy now get some new parts
Oh that looks like fun, Ivan. A little out of your element, but you definitely had some experience back in Russia with antiques. I'm sure all your fans will enjoy this Thanksgiving gift.
Thanks for the great video I had a 59 TR3 a fun car even in the Winter with the soft top
The TR4's are sweet. They are so simple under the hood that Ivan won't even get to press the power button on his scanners. Personally, I'd get rid of the roll bar since it ruins the lines.
Ron Paul bumper sticker!!! 🇺🇲
The car is 9y younger then I am but it looks like it has survived better over the years then I have I can remember them running around back then when I was a youngster but most rusted away also the hot hatch killed off the sports car and have a convertible ln the U.K. which can only be used with the top down I few weeks a year on some occasions you see people even doe it is freezing put the top down just because the sun has come out 😊
lol that fuel glass bowl looks same as a old tractor i had
SU carburetors with a sediment bowl on the fuel pump. I remember those sediment bowls and the "fun" with cleaning them and trying to reinstall them so they won't leak.
Only had a limited amount of knowledge with the SU's. Somewhere I think I still have a tool for adjusting the air balance for the SU's. I got it from J.C. Whitney and it worked well.
Fun times.
Good one Ivan.
It's cool how it has disc brakes for a 1963 car
That really needs new rear wheel cylinders as the corrosion in them will cause them to leak, which in turn will ruin the brake shoes.
Agree - if, when you look under the dust boot*, (remove the clip rather than lever it over!) you find ANY dampness it means the piston seal inside the cylinder is letting fluid by - certain U.K. MOT failure! - you will suddenly lose the brake one day when all the fluid has seeped out. After 10 years the rubber seals will have perished so routinely change them now on all pistons on the back brakes for safety, or better get new cylinders as johnt.848 says. *It is a dust boot - not a fluid seal.
Happy Thanksgiving buddy
This was a popular car when I was in my late teens
as it was drained of all fuel and might i say a good job was done he put the glass bowl and clip in a rag in the glove box or boot 100% sure let me know when you find it
Those carburetor nuts were probably loosened to drain the bowls for storage
Wonderful no computers 👍😁❤️
Well familiar with SU carburetors. Original had cork gaskets around main jets, very prone to leaking. Replacement viton is the solution. Also replacing the witch's brew brake fluid with DOT 5 silicone based fluid will prevent future hydraulic issues.
this definitely at time when you want a fire extinguisher CLOSE by.. great fun working on real cars.. no computer to fight with , no modules. that car was one of the first roadsters,, cool
Im still waiting on a T34 tank diagnosis video😁
No Internet Required!
Welcome to Columbus (I'm actually 25 miles east) thank you for posting this very interesting look into history.
Ah skinner union carbs. The bottom actually screws in and out to adjust the mixture.
Like watching Elvis from "Wheeler Dealers". 😁
I was always told Lucas Electronics invented intermittent wipers. 😊
There is no doubt, it will start again, because it was well stored, success Ivan !!
That’s a nice TR4 , it just needs using once a month