What Happened To The Piaffe?
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2021
- The piaffe is a dressage movement where the horse is in a highly collected and cadenced trot, in place or nearly in place. The center of gravity of the horse should be more towards the hind end, with the hindquarters slightly lowered and great bending of the joints in the hind legs.
We are following a series by Blondedressage on TikTok. In this series, she talks about dressage controversies. In this video, she talks about the evolution of the piaffe in dressage.
www.tiktok.com/@blondedressag...
More and more often we are seeing the piaffe as a trot on the spot or rather just a few awkward and uneven steps from the horse before they transition out of it in the grand prix dressage test.
Today we look at the evolution of the piaffe then we take a look at 4 grand prix riders working through the piaffe in the grand prix test. You get the chance to be the judge and test your dressage judging skills for the piaffe.
Time to have some fun!
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I would feel very embarrassed to show a horse which is not ready for that level
I agree, it's a whole culture though. I think in general there is too much stress on how young and how quickly a horse "advances" through the levels, (and riders too), incorrectly labeled "talented" because they achieved "so much" and "so quickly". Yet when you look at videos like this, who are these training methods benefiting? (The egos of the riders). There is so much pressure in this industry to go fast that horses get pushed too quickly, break down faster, horses that don't want to be doing this are forced to what end??
So true! Who ist the grey at 0:45?, looks perfect to me.
Unfortunately, nowadays 80 % of the piaffer we see has nothing to do with collection but we see horses performing the Piaffer on the shoulders jumping with their legs in a high croupe...
Those piaffes were awful. Get the hind under the horse, that’s where the power comes from and then you can ask for this. My bloke was able to do a collected canter on the spot in a plain snaffle because his power was where it needed to be. I didn’t intend for him to do it, we has just slowed down to stop and then he did this exquisite canter on the spot with a light rein. Super proud Mum moment
What happened to Piaffe? - What happened to the whole dressage riding...
and what happens to the horses whennthe old trainers´s knowledge is lost...
The beauty and expression is rarely seen these days .
Competition and art are not compatible. There you have it ! but for those who practice the 'Art ;' the skills should survive .
The knowledge is still alive but the sport is not interested. The second problem is, that through a wrong selection in breeding high and excalted movement is put more weight in than in a strong back and active rear legs. I hope you can understand what I mean my English is not the best.
@@istanbulu1 Also my native language is not english.
I completely agree with your statement. I hope the knoeledge will stay alive allthough the sportive riding is not interested
Dressage has changed dramatically since the 1990s. It became acceptable, then fashionable, to train the horse tight and round and behind the vertical in the head, WHILE the breeders started producing high action in the front. The current high-end market dressage horses look like Dutch Carriage Horses (look them up!) and are trained, thanks to Edward Gal and some others, with stretchies, which ruin the natural symmetry and cadence of the gaits. High stepping horses are flashy to viewers and buyers, but other aspects of classical dressage are no longer crucial and appreciated. It has to change again. Young riders need to learn dressage from scratch again, not by watching Gal & Co. and their trick horses. Dressage is humane and gorgeous, when the horse is allowed to find his own balance, his own stride, his own BEING and energy as an athlete.
One thing I noticed about the horses doing the piaffe incorrectly was how unhappy they looked, and how out of balance they were. I would imagine great strength of body and mind is necessary for a horse to do this movement correctly? Are these horses just not strong enough physically and well enough mentally to do it? One thing I have always loved about watching the horses of the Spanish Riding School is how calm they look, how their tails are very rarely wring or switch- and everything they do looks like it's easy for them. Most of those other horses in this video look so miserable. :(
I do think that the SRS spends years developing the high school maneuvers. They said in a documentary that not every horse can perform the highest level exercises. Anyway, the Lipizzaner tends to be very talented at collected work!
@@TheGinny77 I'm sure it is years of careful training and development of strength before even beginning to ask for those types of movements. It does seem as though years of breeding have created a horse more likely to be able to do this work. But I don't know much about this subject at all! That's why I'm here, trying to learn.
I was watching the aids given, it seems like the riders don't fully understand what they're supposed to be doing either...
@@MSchipper I'm not educated enough to make that judgement but if the rider doesn't have a clear idea of what they're doing it's hard for the horse to achieve the goal.
So no native English speaker but here is what I know as far as classical training/working towards collection is concerned. As is I am currently training my own to girls to do this exercise (in hand for now btw) I would hope I am at least somewhat educated.
These horses that are doing it incorrectly are trained to do exercises such as the haunches in. When doing the haunches in the hind leg stepping underneath the body is making the same bend the hind leg has to make to perform the piaffe. So the piaffe is haunches in performed on both hind legs together. This way the hind end starts carrying weight and not just pushing the horse forward. This is also the reason why with a correct piaffe the pelvis tilts and the back becomes round. Then the horse can (after a lot of training lol) shifts his weight to his hind end and can easily carry this over his back and on his pelvis this causes the uphill confirmation a horse is supposed to have when doing this.
Now these horses should know the haunches in so technically speaking they are at a perfect point to start working towards the piaffe. However just because a horse knows the haunches in doesn't mean the explanation up above will happen. Grand prix horses don't tilt their pelvis in general anymore and thus don't carry their weight but are literally trotting (pushing forward not carrying weight and consequently carrying weight) in place with their hind end not bended under their body or a round back. So they fall on the forehand press their back away and destroy their bodies because they are not made to take weight in such a position. Hence the unhappiness/pain.
Hope that made some sense and answered your question somewhat.
I wish dressage riders today would train thier horses the classical way. The book * the classical rider* is a great book and testament to the way dressage horses should be trained,if anyone is interested. Wish Nuno Olivera was still around! He would have a lot to say about the dressage riders today!
Thank you! I love when people post good training books! For anyone looking to build a fantastic bond from the ground up through ground work and fun ways for your horse to learn should check out Kelly Marks "How to Behave so Your Horse Does Too." Gave me some great tools and techniques for a difficult youngster that had a hard time trusting.❤
Check out Sonja Weber's films: czcams.com/video/XPhU0rAQp80/video.html (example for correct piaffe vs. modern piaffe at 2:50). It's not exactly the kind of riding we're used to seeing these days... ;) but I can say that it has helped me and my old tb cross with his less than perfect conformation a lot- and we're not even that far along yet!
That's right!
That's right about what Oliveira would said about thoses pictures
@@Nicole-qc5dh yes me too!! The classical rider is a great read and you will learn so much. Thank you for sharing your book as well, I too am always looking for good horse/training books😊🐎🐴
I'm one of the "old trainers" and what one has to witness happening in the dressage arena nowadays makes one's eyes water. My scores for these riders ranged between 0 and 2. (Being generous.) Not performed to.......just lousy. None of the horses were carrying weight on their hindquarters. None were really elevated, and simply put, none were ready for that level of collection, and if they were, than their riders were definitely not.
Yea. Thank you/
I saw this about the Piaffe when watching a lot of Grand Prix tests and I saw riders who did it properly and then ones who didn’t and I was so confused on why they still got high scores for it
Yes! Same here. Seems like the quality of dressage riding has gone down the drain a bit🧐
I do too
It's about name and reputation nowadays.
Popular riders could take a horse not ready for that level, perform poorly and still get high scores
As happened here, with Gunter Seidel, who showed NO PIAFFE at all, and still scored 6. Should have been 3, at best. If I were scoring, 2.
@@YurimoHikashi - agree, the Judges are so subjective. They need to correct their scoring systems so that preferential treatment/ favoritism plays NO role in their scoring. Look at Jumping events - they take into account: time, clean rounds, but for every bar knocked off, subtracts 4 faults, rider errors, etc. Dressage Judging/ FEI needs to clean up their act & change their scoring system ASAP. See so many average riders score highly, due to name or past performances - while really good, newer to the scene riders get shut out. Gross
I wouldn't have scored any of those more than a 5.5, they were all universally crap... I think a lot of modern dressage tendencies is in large part due to the modern warmblood. They have massive expressiveness in the extended gaits, but suffer in the collected gaits.. They are simply too long and too tall to truly step under and support all that weight. Imagine an 18 hand warmblood trying to do levade- they are simply not conformed for extreme collection.. You very seldom see the lowering of haunches in piaffe as called for in the classical texts and demonstrated by the lippizzaner.. The degradation of canter pirouette is another example: a big long modern horse has a hard time swinging all that body length around and supporting on a single hindleg, so we see 4-beat ugly pirouettes...
Why do you post up a video of your GP trst
@@treigjmiller2847 The "WhErE iS yOuR gRaNd PrIx TeSt?" argument is honestly very weak, and I am getting rather tired of seeing this response in the comment section (which honestly means I should just stop reading the comment section). You do not need be a Grand Prix rider to offer valid criticism on the sport of Dressage. Being a Grand Prix rider isn't simply a matter of skill. To ride at that level, you need money. You need money for the trainer, the horse, the gear, the attire, the travel. Money is often what determines who becomes a Grand Prix/Olympic rider and who is a pleasure rider. Most of us don't have a Grand Prix test to post because we can't afford a Grand Prix test. This does not mean we are not allowed to offer our opinions and criticisms on the sport. I think OP offers some astute observations. I also agree that based on this video's definition of the piaffe and the ensuing examples, the horses from the score test did not perform well. Did they perform better than might horse could? Absolutely! Did they perform well? Still no.
@@DrucillaASummers I think it is perfectly readonable to see how it should be done?
@@treigjmiller2847 there is an example in the video. The Lippizaner does a great demonstration of the piaffe. There is also an example of a more warmblood type horse doing it in a manner that the creator notes is “perfect.”
@@DrucillaASummers so... I guess we have a selection of Olympians and members of the SRC commenting
Perhaps it’s because we are too fixated about engaging the front end to get a “pretty” outline we have forgotten the back. Classical horsemanship was the movements required for a war horse not “pretty horse dancing!”
In that regard, I'm glad my instructor for 22 years has been trained at the French High School, Cadre Noir de Saumur, and thus has actual classical/military dressage he's been imparting to everybody year after year. He's always saying stuff like "forwardness is your main tool" and "put the balance on the hindside, and everything will be easier", because indeed when the horse tilts his pelvis and push with his hindlegs under him, dressage moves are easier and the back is used in a manner that won't harm the horse in the long run. Bonus point, having that sort of forwardness considerably lower the need for hands - they end up only there to insure a smooth contact and a control of the shoulders, but most of the work is done via the rider's back, pelvis (seat), and legs.
The "extended trot" that is performed is also a joke, it looks more like Spanish trot (wrong angles in legs, back isnt engaged, front legs over work and back legs do bare minimum)
"Collection" is a joke too (too much bend in the head, with hollow back and disengaged hind legs)
Contact is stiff and forced
Dressage that we see now is honestly sad. But dare you say anything about top tier riders and the keyboard warriors will come at you
We honestly need to ditch the FEI dressage for good. I couldnt perform dressage with my horse as he had permamently damaged tongue so he couldnt be ridden bitted, and he had soul and willingness to perform.
I would love to see grandprix without the prescribed tacking. May the best one, with the least tack win !
Every one of those hoses was completely hollow and off balance, just embarrassing :(
Why would you even enter a horse into this level of competition if it is not strong enough to do the movement?
I shall now go watch Klaus Balkenhol on Goldstern once again to refresh my brain.
Good idea
Would love Blue Hors Matine to be remembered here. Her piaffe and passage at WEG2006 was some of the best I've ever seen.
At the time it was totally a wow but now when you look back at it you can see how strung out and behind the leg she is. She also has that back leg stuttering which is a high indicator of hyperflexed training.
As far as I'm informed, the difficulties with the piaffe comes from the way dressage horses are bread nowadays.
The gaits had to become more and more spectacular and extreme and in order to achieve this breeders began to select horses with a high push-force from the back. But over the decades this push-force has become so strong, that it makes it extremely hard to practically impossible for horses to collect correctly. And in addition the back legs of these horses are oriented to the back (the legs can't stand beneath the hips like they should do), which makes the right collection even more difficult.
They also have to much flexibility in their joints and can't keep up with their training without getting injured and worn out too quickly says my vet.
Classically trained piaffe in-hand by those who truly understand our horses needs. With knowledge & experience with empathy, gentleness & patience & time. Established from the ground before performed under saddle. The piaffe is a wonderful strengthening exercise, it is a gymnastic exercise & when produced correctly is marvellous to ride & to watch. But remember: Where knowledge ends, brutality begins & don’t ask the brick layer to be a ballet dancer ❤
This subject...the piaffe is my "favourite" topic of contention in GP dressage today. I might add I had a tear in my eye watching this. I often do when I see piaffe being ridden in GP and anywhere in the world. That music BTW is utterly appropriate.. I've seen soooo much worse too yes even at Olympic level live. Yes absolutely it's become utterly intolerable. For the horse and spectator. it's time to put an end to it. No if, buts, maybe.
The adage a bird in hand, well for me is worth ten thousand in the bush. One correct step of piaffe to me is worth any number of hideously abusive ones. We can only guess the debauched training going on in the background too. In hand man stuff and under saddle. Believe me the description of a bad piaffe "Circus"! Nah this is nothing short of sanctioned abuse.
Scoring should reflect the quality of the piaffe not quantity. It doesn't, it does nothing of the sort.
There are indeed a mere handful of horses, you cant count them on your one hand literally even capable and willingly able to perform perfect piaffe. The rest are nothing but abuse where the horse is relentlessly tortured with spurs only to produce a complete abomination of a piaffe. This is wrong very wrong. Horses are being abused! In my honest opinion the number of steps asked should be completely and utterly up to the discretion of the rider and should not be reflected in the score at any time. The purity and quality of the piaffe is what should be scored. So one perfect step should be worthy of as high a score as 12 or 15 would be. This is fair this is a level playing field for the horse. Scoring should reflect a level playing field and protect the horses welfare.
In my mind there is nothing spectacular about piaffe in dressage competitions, it's just a continued reminder, a grand culmination of this sanctioned abuse dressage horses have to endure. This is also patently obvious for everyone to see.
The cognitive dissonance involved in this regard is staggering, by everyone, judges, public riders, trainers and teachers.. if I could wave a magic wand piaffe as it stands would be banned for good. It's also IMO one of the things that will ultimately be dressage's undoing as a sport.
Rolkeur is not a patch on this one.
Not even a horse piaffing there and back in pirouette "correctly" is a lovely sight, it just looks forced and utterly ugly. That same horse doing five stunning engaged but truly joyful steps of really lovely piaffe to me is a far far more magnificent sight. I know where Blondedressage is coming from with this but the point is there are so few horses even capable of executing good piaffe it just shouldn't be so important. It's not the training they're just incapable both mentally and physically of doing so. Training only makes it worse and makes the abuse worse for the animal. The degree of difficulty is nothing but the degree of abuse.
Having said all that there is nothing more magnificent than sitting on a horse full of impulsion and strength doing the piaffe correctly, transitioning in and out in one stunning flow of powerful energy. Momentarily trotting on the spot is indeed not a circus act, it should be almost spontaneous to be worthy of a high score. We hardly ever see that though no matter how many steps. When we do see it it's usualy not in competition, no pressure, no force. But what about the majority of our equine partners suffering away silently in the name of sport.
You can't have dressage as a sport when only four horses are able to even do it no matter how sadly. That's not a sport. It really is nothing more than a shocking show of sanctioned abuse.
You've nailed it. Rollkur disables the circle of muscles needed to move correctly at all. In the puaffe it is very noticeable and a good test of engagement. This video shows posing and mimicry, not the correct movement. Well stated.
Had a stallion that would transition from canter directly into piaffe, then back to canter. The redirection of that much power is breathtaking.
WOAW! the ones i thought were doing the best jobs (the last 2) got really low scores and the ones were i thought like "this doesn't feels right" got pretty hight scores (still low but higher than the other 2)
That was depressing. Where has the piaffe disappeared to? None of those four had any sort of piaffe at all. Sigh. Sometimes progress isn't. I haven't seen a great piaffe since the 80's. (jmo)
Thank you!! It makes me so sad how the perspective of “good riding” has changed. Forever a student to the horse
I totally agree!
.....the entire point of dressage movements is to produce a thoroughly well trained (heavy) cavalry mount. These are military movements. Those were awful and I don’t even ride the discipline. The other issue is that these long legged horses aren’t built to piaffe correctly. You don’t want a leggy cavalry horse. You want something sturdy with an already low center of gravity so it can maneuver efficiently in armor and in ranks. Horses were tanks, tanks are not “high center” vehicles.
Modern dressage is a train wreck.
Hmm, you’re right. The rather shorter legs of Valero probably contribute to him being able to do his dresssge more effectively
Maybe we forget about the groundwork e g long reining and focus too much on riding the horse?
Agreed. There’s a lot to be said for riding bareback with a simple snaffle. You get to truely feel the horse. Get the horse to stretch and become supple, then ask for collection once their extension is mastered. Foundations, foundations
The current scale of marking, just fyi:
0 = not performed
1 = very bad
2 = bad
3 = fairly bad
4 = insufficient
5 = sufficient
6 = satisfactory
7 = fairly good
8 = good
9 = very good
10 = excellent
I am so glad someone said this. I am so tired of watching top level dressage riders who can't do piaffe. The best examples are never seen in competition, and the horses in competition who do a piaffe better than most are not well scored. It makes you think these competitions are bought.
Cadre Noir de Saumur is another good place to watch the haute ecole done correctly.
The other thing is, a straight, properly collected horse that is truly in the bridle and through will lower its croup and offer piaffe (doux piaffe)-if you’re having to “teach piaffe”, the horse probably isn’t actually ready to do it.
Can confirm, my instructor for 22 years comes from the Cadre Noir and he defo had been strictly teaching classical dressage techniques. They may feel out of fashion in the arena atm but I'm personally joining the handful of riders fighting to bring classical dressage back, it's my long term goal as a rider. And if it requires me to train a horse for 10 years so it has the strength and flexibility to do so, then so be it. But I refuse to honor modern dressage, it's too lacking.
I love be piaffe when the horse is like a down hill
Should be up hill
Or else it’s not using its body correctly and makes it more difficult for the horse to have balance, tempo, and rhythm
" piaff .....effectively the last step of collection before the Levade "....geat view !!!!!! this makes words about the feeling in a piaff lively turning it into a feeling ,,,,,,would give 100 thumbs up ! I would give you a big hug for that
piaffe movements have been completely degraded by FEI mafia in order to foster determined breeds/countries in dressage (all we know it, no need to comment it here). Most of the horses in first possitions in grand prix, including olympics, has no equilibrium, no collection and the gravity center is displaced. Although each horse is different whatever the breed, we need to admmit that center/north european warmblood horses has beautiful extended movements but very poor collection, in contrast to spanish or lusitano, with a natural tendency to collection and equilibrium (see Fuego, Evento, Coroado, etc). However (for unknown reasons) judges seems to not understand anything about what collection means
Sadly I don't think all people know it. I have posted several videos about biased judging lately and some people still defend it.
what is the music on this video who is singing?
I still know how, as a child, I was riding a dressage test on a pony, at beginner's level. Someone threw a bucket forcefully against the wall, the moment I was riding along it. Needless to say, pony spooked and jumped a few meters to the side. I didn't fall off, pony was immediately back under control. I recieved the lowest possible score. What's worse ? A genuine spook, or a fight with the horse during the test ? Mist say, I used to be a big fan of dressage. Nowadays , I only see overbend necks. No horse has his head in the right place anymore. Even reining looks more horsefriendly nowadays
A healthy piaffe should have a low horse butt. If you draw a line from butt to ground the joints should be alternately in front and in the back. I didn’t see that anywhere
Yes.
My favourite type of piaffe is when the butt is bouncy and they are stomping their front feet into the ground! Is soo preeeeety! -.-
Shake ya booty~ XD
(totally agree tho... )
First rider in my books would get a score of 0, That was not a piaffe.
Rider two would get a five. Pretty good over all for the modern dressage equivalent, but in no way a classical piaffe.
I love the effort the horse with the Third rider puts in, however I would consider the unevenness of that level lameness and they would be DQed.
Rider number four would get a 5. The horse obviously knows how to, but is unwilling and tense in every way.
I'm really mean.
czcams.com/video/URpRWQxo4h8/video.html
czcams.com/video/tPPo_6_Ti3E/video.html
I recommend these videos for more information on the modern Piaffe.
Thank you for the link to that video. It was very interesting!
The first one is strange. He loses rhythm and canters. Two judges made this part of the transitions and the others maybe didn’t see it... maybe he got an error of execution? The other scores are more arguable or subjective depending on the judge.
In my opinion the third rider performed the piaffe the best. The hind legs carry weight, it's rhythmical and the one one too forward step looks to me more like a little misunderstanding. Horse thought it is yet released into passage, I guess :0
But I think the horse is definitely held to tight.
The second rider... Well, I think it wouldnt be too bad if it was still in the training process. Some steps the horse makes are nice, but apparently it lacks the strenght and balance to really keep that up. It looks still very intense to the horse. Second best, I'd say.
The fourth horse also is not too bad and you can see at the start that it tries to carry more weight on the hind legs. But since the rhythm is disturbed and it also looks pretty hard for the horse, its all in all not a good piaffe. Third best.
The worst performed the first pair, I think. Maybe its due to the bad transition, but I can't see that the horse carrys more weight an the hind legs. To that horse the piaffe doesn't look that hard, because its not at all collected, it just looks like very slow trot.
From my point of view the other horses are at least on the right way, even though their piaffe is far from perfect.
Honestly, I'd love other people to comment, what you see and whether you agree with me or not :)
I don't ride at that level, so I can just talk about, what I've learned from watching. But, I think the development in dressage is sad in general. Today horses that have impressively moving front legs get top results, even though their hindlegs.... Well, at least they arent missing. Also things like the extended trot or the pirouettes often arent ridden well anymore. Pretty sad since dressage was about keeping our horses healthy by training them properly :(
Oh and btw, Im not a native english speaker, so have mercy on me if my spelling or grammar is strange. Im not familiar with the rider's slang in other languages xD
Wow. My jumpers could do a Piaffe like that 😂😂😂
It always depends on the competition. Is it a beginner competition it’s lead that the piaffe doesn’t have to be that good. In the difficult competitions the piaffe is really great and nearly perfect
I don't remember which horses I put in the video but I think they are all trying to qualify for the Olympics
What happened? There are competition levels, where horses are categorically not ready for a proper warmup to ridden work, and yet they are shown and compared...
Competition comes before the art of horsetraining, that's what has happened.
“FORWARD” is a condition of willingness, NOT velocity. Under saddle, “halt” is a FORWARD transition.
It's sad how this sport has just become looking as flashy as possible to some. I can't imagine that was comfortable for any of these horses.
I scored them all like about 2 😅
I'm very confused as to why the third pair got such a low score... In my eyes that looked like the only acceptable piaffe? Or am I missing something?
The piaffe was a bit uneven but was probably the best piaffe. She lost marks because she did not do enough steps and the horse lost balance and stepped out of the piaffe. She did half her step then you see a step forward then she finished them.
@@DressageHub yes i noticed the stepping out. I didnt count tho so that makes at least a bit of sense
No ; I didn't get it right ,,, I would offer 1 perhaps for , 'attempt ' .
Those judges must be high or sth xd
Probably drunk from the VIP but high is possible as well.
They all just remind me of charro horses that are trained to frantically move their feet or get caned
my thoughts exactly!
Breeding and conformation play a big part in the propensity for a good piaffe passage. The modern warmblood is not really suited to this, with its long rear cannon and long back. The Baroque horses were used for high school for a reason. They are also a smaller horse some barely 16hh. There are very few modern dressage horses currently competing that have a good piaffe/passage tour, the others have good riders aboard. Great for expression and extensions but not for high collection work.
3, 5, 6.5, 5.
I still dont get what it is
The piaffe is meant to be a stepping stone to higher training, and was used to guage if a horse was ready to advance to the next stage. For most Dressage horses now, that is the highest level movement they will ever do. And the fact that these 'top tier' horses cannot do it properly is appalling. It is not the horse's fault; it lies on the riders and trainers. They are operating under the delusion that a piaffe is simply trotting in place. A proper piaffe is more than that. To start, you must have proper collection. A horse naturally carries 60% of their weight in the front, and 40% in the back. This is without a rider. A good rider aims to disrupt the weight balance as little as possible. Not all riders achieve this. Collection aims to balance the weight to 50/50, both mounted and not. To do that, you need to work specific muscle groups. Here's a basic idea of what happens.
lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/kNWIiSHZFy1AScaWB8kVoc87Nf93ZuvT5lu9jFncT3nG9zbTkV7S9m_NiiW9gDdSntgD-YMbRHVgIUIdYY_qX2u0trCbOnHoSgwFCTm0SZKqyVmaaeUnti3x3Y6l53YQFfCRn0HPure_5ijfUn7h
Riderless, a horse naturally shifts backwards and tucks the hips when making sharp direction changes. As the horse grows stonger, you can bring that arc up and ask for that weight shift while it is being ridden. And THAT is when you can begin teaching the piaffe in-hand. A well-trained piaffe is an expression of well-taught collection, not just trotting in place. The horses often being shown today are not just poorly taught; they are actively being blocked from accomplishing this through rushed training and sometimes rolkur, all for the sake of scrambling to get to the higher levels. Just because they LOOK pretty does not mean they are bio-mechanically solid and balanced. A well taught horse would not hit the Grand Prix circuit until almost age 15, simply to accommodate all of the fundamentals they need. These horses are being pushed through at age 10 or younger. That's 5 years of training (even poor as it is) they are missing. It would be like expecting a high school student to compete professionally after being coached by a friend rather than a retired athlete of the sport. Sometimes that friend could coach really well. But more often than not, the friend doesn't quite know what they're doing. And either way, the student is too young for that level and is ill-prepared for the event.
Hope this helps! If you have any questions, feel free to ask! :)
All of these horses look like they've been rushed to compete at a higher level than they're ready for.
To my non-dressage rider eyes, the last one of the three was the best overall but it got to lowest score.
These horses all look unhappy to be doing this. Have any of you dressage lovers thought about the intensity at which dressage horses work?!
I think it's so degrading to horses that the original poster has liked my post. Try to think more of the welfare and well-being of the horse....
I'd be unhappy too if my rider were to ask me to collect myself while keeping my back hollow because my pelvis doesn't do the proper tilt down to lower my haunches under myself. Ouchie to my back.
Piaffe im heutigen sog. "Reitsport" ist "Angst auf der Stelle"....Otto Lörke pflegte seine Pferde in der Piaffe zu lösen...
Los caballos de piafe, y pasad son: los españoles, lusitanos o lipizanos
They all four didn’t show a piaffe at all
I got it wrong. I gave them all zero.
Those are gross caricatures of what piaffe is or should be. I don't think they performed the movement. No lowering of hindquarters, no distinct rhythm. I failed to score as posted. ;]
ALL HORSES CAN PIAFFE. The true piaffe is innate, hardwired into a herd animal that can stand and run with its herd within hours of birth. Foals piaffe. The transfer of weight to the hind quarters is a survival mechanism that affords horses the ability to evade predators. In my rehabilitation practice I use piaffe to correct the canter; engaging the postures of arousal (without the attendant fight/flight response) has profound benefits for the horse. I had one mare, a well bred Hanoverian, whose gaits had become intractably lateralized; she could only cross canter; her trot would degenerate to a near pace. Not surprisingly, she developed behavioral issues. So for a month all we did was piaffe and shoulder-fore on the square. Her canter returned. I use piaffe extensively when I rehab geriatric horses. The results are irrefutable: Correct collection improves joint health. My vet concurs-her 23 year old Arab was able to forgo hock injections after 6 weeks on my program.
If a horse cannot do the piaffe the rider shouldn’t be scored.
This was painful to watch
1st rider would get a 4.8 or 5. The piaffe is recognisable, but very poorly executed. The horse is on the forehand and not taking any weight onto the hindquarters... the horse is falling apart and there clearly was some tension before and after the piaffe. And the Passage was pretty bad as well
The 2nd rider as well (5.0). There is a lot of tension in the horse, the rhythm is a bit damaged, and the movement is not fluent and hindlegs not active enough.
3rd rider was a bit better imo. 5.5, despite the horse kind of jumping forward after the first few steps.
4th rider: the horse shows potential, but unfortunately the tact/rhythm was completely off. Therefore it can only be marked below 5.0. My instructor once explained to me that once the tact/rhythm is off, the judges have to give a mark below 5.0 as tact/rhythm is the foundation of correct riding.
All were awful! tension in all of them hollowing, mouthing and tail swishing. Not one happy horse there so uncomfortable to watch. The forces placed on the musculoskeletal system to perform these moves is immense can and does have devastating long term effects. ! Performing this perfectly is bad enough but poorly like all of them in this video is worse.
Why do dressage riders have the "need" to use such cruel bits? If they are so talented & train their horse so well - let's see you do it in a snaffle. Dressage riders who choose these barbaric bits need to start getting shunned & shamed by the public. Enough.
Technically a double is required for competition
@@DressageHub Thank you for responding! I do know & have ridden a few times w/ double reins & it was a smooth bit w/ brass lozenge. I am referring to some riders with really draconian bits, too tight nose bands & I forget the "famous" female riders name whose horses always end up with blood in their mouths, etc & she blames it on the horse being clumsy! 🤯 Really??? That many times? Their needs to be a more rules on what type of bits are allowed that are horse centric/ safe.
@@DressageHub Is a double bridle required because of tradition or is it to give more complex cues for the horse to follow?
@@Anastasia2048 I think in this case it is tradition. But in general those two bits have two different meanings for the horse. One is for vertikal and one for lateral movement of the head and neck (if you can put it that simple). A really good rider can do with only the curb (is that the right english word for that?) but when it is used on it's own it's meant to be ridden one handed.
@@Anastasia2048 In a solid partnership, the double bridle is meant to facilitate refined cues. Think of it kind of like shoes (odd analogy, I know, but bear with me). You are asked to find a large shell with your feet while walking across a gravel surface. You are first given boots. You can't feel the texture due to the thick soles (neck strap or halter). You are then given a pair of sneakers. You can now sort of feel the gravel, but it's not quite the level of contact you need to find that shell, unless you are really in tune with your feet and have found shells in similar situations before (plain snaffle). You are then given a pair of leather moccasins. In these, you can feel the gravel well, and easily detect changes in texture as you walk, and will be able to find what you are looking for quickly (double bridle). Each type of footwear has a purpose, with each allowing a different level of sensory input to your feet. So too is it with bridles and bits. Now, we could take this analogy a step further and have you go barefoot. You now can instantly find the shell, but you feel every single sharp edge of the gravel you are walking on as well. This would equate to harsh bits. Harsh hands would be changing the surface you are walking on. Barefoot on carpet would be like a stiffer bit in well-trained hands. Boots on a bed of nails would be like a halter with a very harsh rider. It is all dependent on the rider, and how well they know and use the equipment. ANY piece of tack can be dangerous or painful if not used properly.
The problem nowadays is that too many riders are pushed through too quickly, and do not fully understand the mechanics behind what they are being asked to use. Yes, they learn that a small movement here will usually produce X result, but they don't really understand the WHY behind it. And the horses themselves lack the fundamentals they need to do what they are being asked. The result of this combination is what we see in the GP tests now. Riders/trainers that use shortcuts, and horses that lack the strength for proper collection.
I hope all of this made sense. 😅 Like I said, it's an odd analogy, but it works.
All of this is so ridiculous. Let horses be horses and stop theses stupid things. This is only for human pleasure 🤢