Dressage Disaster: Alice Tarjan Eliminated For Blood at Aachen In The Grand Prix
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2021
- You are not in Wellington anymore! It is a hard lesson to learn when many of the top riders from Wellington head over to Europe. We have spoken a lot about the scores in Wellington at the Global Dressage Festival being over inflated by 3-5%, we have also spoken a lot about the lack of elimination that is happening.
Aachen does not play the same game in the sport of dressage and it was a tough lesson for Alice Tarjan of the United States to learn in the CDI 4* Grand Prix Dressage test today.
After a not so great test, she was eliminated for blood at the tack check.
The commentary on this test is priceless. It is easy for an announcer to say nice things about a good ride but there are several awkward moments in this test where the announcer is grappling for words in the media box.
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I really enjoy this commentator and his periodic tactical struggles to remain diplomatic.
🤣🤣🤣 that's the best part!! It's true comedy.
I need him to voiceover my American videos .... It would be worth it.
He’s so knowledgeable, as well.
Spencer Sturmey - amazing commentator - I always think listening to him is as good as a lesson. So much to take away from what he says.
Thank you!!!!
WTF. Her leg was nearly at a backwards 90 degree angle, almost kicking her spurs into the horse's back. That is bizarre and unpleasant to say the least.
I was waiting for someone to say something about that!
Right?! You shouldn’t be spurring the horse the whole ride!
Never saw that on any rider before. Yes I see this as Prestige through Pain. Don't like it. Take care.
Did you also notice the toes of her boots were constantly pointing down as well ?
@@NintendoGrl94 i noticed that
What bothers me most about this is that it is totally possible to preform Dressage in ways that are ethical and comfortable for the horse. You don't need a harsh double shank bits, or to bend the horses head into rollkur, or any of that to do Dressage. And yet, time and time again, we see people use methods that can be so detrimental to the horse.
People started treating horses like replaceable tools - you’ll never see me with spurs or any more than a snaffle on my little boy. Not even a whip, though I don’t mind whips when they’re used properly, but a well trained horse like these ones shouldn’t ever need one.
@@quit-rt4vz Everything can be bad if not used properly
Double bridles are mandatory at FEI levels. She didn’t have a choice if she wanted to ride at this level.
Mandatory doesn't mean necessary in order to preform. If anything, it shows how flawed the FEI is. Why promote the use of equipment that can easily be detrimental in the wrong hands when what should be judged is the skill and communication between horse and rider.
@@nimekupata that’s exactly the issue we’re complaining about :) not individual riders, just the rules that are unnecessary ♡
You can see the head bob from the horse's limp, especially in the extended walk. If I was on this horse I would have been off immediately to make sure he was all right. The horse's safety and comfort is more important than any competition.
I agree. The horse is lame. Should have stopped immediately and been disqualified. That was stupid. Poor horse. Did the best he could. Judges should have just stopped them. Right hind.
The horse is not lame. It is just not walking.
It wants to go faster. Because of that it was more or less zero points as not shown
Walk is the hardest gate to ride correctly
Also I might add you can not judge if a horse is lame if does not really walk.
So refreshing people finally see that. The inability of the horse to bend properly in corners, the uneven action of hind legs, the jerkiness, the advancement of the right hind which makes him crooked in virtually all movements.
Not so long ago, video like this would harvest nothing but salivating from to commentators with a very few critical voices which be silenced as being jealous, mean, etc.
Times are changing. The dressage industry is not picking it up. They created this welfare nightmare and they have no way to back from it. It takes a visual sign of a brutality like blood to eliminate someone. Lameness? They are oblivious to it.
@@ezire yes!!! This was the first thing that I saw - the corners!! Unbelievable. How can you try this level without knowing the absolute basics?? Plus pulling the horse back all the time,poor thing 😭
@@Soogle42 proper bending was taught to me when I still struggled to keep horse on a circle without using the reins. It was THE BASIC for both - the horse and rider. It was also taught (50-70s) that a horse is not required to perform a proper bending till it masters straigh balancing in all 4 gates (including gallop) and at least 2 basic paces. Circles and corners were next. The horse was tested for this ability to bend by letting reins loose, rider relaxed. If the horse could not bend on its own by following the curve with all 4 and was either falling in with shoulders or throwing a butt outside, it was still considered to be in basic training.
Gee, what has gone wrong with this circus we call dressage?
Horrific leg position of this rider throughout. She clearly never learnt the basics of bending your leg AT THE HIP, not the knee! This causes her to touch the horse with the spur in more sensitive areas - close to the saddle pad, and in her case, even the flank. Her lower leg is almost horizontal several times in this test (e.g. 5:07)...!! She's not in balance at all, sitting on her pelvic bone rather than the seat bone, with her feet BEHIND HER.
... She has a lot to learn, and I can't fathom how she made it this level with such poor riding (and her leg position isn't the ony thing wrong with her riding).
PS: Loved the commentator, with the exception of the last "he has a lot to learn" - the rider has to learn first. That horse might move completely differently under a competent, compassionate rider.
sadly much like upper level show jumpers, the basics of leg position that are drilled into any amature rider are not often found on the highest levels. Why? I have absolutely no idea. Some claim that they upper level riders leg position is to help the horse perform and stay out of the horses way. I think that's BS and just an excuse to not call out the top riders
I do believe horse moves completely different under someone else. There no way she trained that horse. Watch her legs, hip, and hands to know that. The horse was completely tense and getting tenser instead of relaxing into the movement. Whole point of dressage is training. I can't understand how this lady made it to this level? Other then money. I seen teens just learning to school have better balance. Poor horse
money.... thats how she made it. no talent poor girl
I agree with you, but as I learned at a hunter barn trying to do dressage they told me just put your leg back, and it’s hard to learn the right way. So this is not excuse for her but it might explain.
2:04 as well
I am a jumper but even I, a person who has no knowledge on dressage, can notice that the position of her legs is off and quite noticeable. At one point I had noticed her legs come off the body of the horse and bounce against the horse's body for serial strides. The trainer needs to take notice and act upon this. Improper leg positioning can lead to miscommunication between the rider and horse.
Yup, zero harmony or fluidity between the two of them - beautiful mare did ALL the work here.
Absolutely right about the leg position I rode dressage for 10yrs and I've never seen anyone with such bad leg position and never have i seen some one put their legs so far back like not a good rider. Just goes to show if you have the money you can get a horse that makes you "look good".
Da hast du die Hände vergessen die nur ins Maul rissen.katastrophal aufgerollt.Armes Pferd.Sollte Man auf die Weide stellen damit er sich von der Reiterrin erholen kann.
once upon a time you couldnt show ANY leg movement that was part of the discipline
I used to be a jumper, and i am horrified by the leg positioning. I remember a trainer who would have skinned me alive for less than half of that when we were working on flat and it wasn't even national level yet...
This is like a class in everything that is wrong with dressage today.
The commentator mentioned that the over track in the walk was insufficient. Nobody mentions that for the trot. Working trot is when the hind foot steps into/onto the spot left by the front foot. Medium trot is an over track of approximately one hoof print and extended trot is an over track of much more. These horses show balance and push power by their rhythm and over track. All we see now it front foot flinging. Complete destruction of dressage and they get rewarded for it. I do not comprehend this.
I was wondering why he didn't mention that! My horse who is very lazy and absolutely not a dressage horse steps up more in the trot than this Grand Prix dressage horse! insane
thank you! the first think I noticed was the hollow back and not tracking up in the trot.
Thank you! Couldn't have said it better. This horse is just ridden into the ground with his hindlegs not taking any weight or covering any ground at all! I know horses that tend to fall behind the reins but you can work on that and this is what you got when you just pull your horse into position with the reins and not dropping their head freely because of your body and leg-work.
You can see it even in the thumbnail. In this position in trot the left hindlegs cannon should be parallel to the right fronts forearm. This poor horse is just pedaling with it's front legs in the air leaving his rear end behind...
The horse is doing the best she can to please this beginner rider and give her whatever she requests. The rider doesn't know about collection or how to ask for it. She never learned how to balance on a horse or even keep weight in her stirrups. Her legs are all over the place and her timing is atrocious.
THIS level with THAT lower leg??? HOW??? 🤯🤯🤯
Right. How?
Most likely someone paid for this rider to participate even though they are not qualified.
LMAO fr
I thought the same thing when I viewed it
The same thing I was wondering.. eeehgghh
Who taught this clearly inept rider?!! Woolworths?!! She needlessly tortured an injured animal. The real travesty is allowing this horror show to go on.
Robert dover taught her at one time
It should have been stopped it's sheer cruelty. Alot. To learn I think not
If tbe judges see something wrong they could make tbe rider stop. Than privately tell her why
elloo aussieee
Ha Ha you said Woolworth's
I love how the announcer was clicking to get the horse moving forward into the hand.
This used to be my discipline and now it just disgusts me the way they cram these horses into Rollkur. It's disgusting and the double bridle has to go! These riders have NO right to that much leverage. Nobody does, if you can't do it with a simple, kinder, single bit then you have no business in this industry. This is not what dressage was ever meant to be. It's a travesty and the judges who reward it ought to be ashamed.
Edit on recent developments:. It appears it's not just the judges that should be ashamed. The FEI has taken every reference discouraging Rollkur out of their most recent rules,/handbook. It appears they are tired of being called out as hypocrites and that trump's the physical and emotional wellbeing of the equine. Makes me wish elite level competition doesn't even exist. But yeah, horses with their heads far beyond the vertical and that broken necked look is just too pretty to pass up.🤢
This!
Her horses go like this in a snaffle, even at 4 years old.
@@cornpop8586 Then they're getting started waaay to early and pushed to hard
@@cornpop8586 a mature horse is around 7-10 years old , those poor yearlings and 2 year olds.
double bridles arent bad in knowledgeable hands, but the fact that they are REQUIRED at a certain point needs to stop, same with spurs. At a specific level you cant compete without them, which is just plain wrong to me. If your horse doesn't need them to perform competitively at that level why make them use it?
She's constantly spurring him holding him back and I don't think people understand how much stress a horse has to go through in a training such as this😡
wow...her leg and spur are going up nearly into his flank!!
Who’s letting this woman abuse the horse like that? Why does this shit happen? What’s happening to dressage?
Best dressage announcer ever. You can tell he's ridden these movements on quite a few horses before.
Dang look how high the spurs are going. The horse is super tense.
The tense movements of this horse makes me want to call the humane society God help us
@@reneesteenland1734 The Human Society has traditionally focused on pets--especially cats and dogs--because so many people own them and support the work of the Humane Society. Another organization is needed to give a voice to "all creatures great and small" who are suffering from human abuse and neglect.
If you have to exaggerate your leg aid to the point where your heel is so far up and back that it is almost level with your knee joint (like @1:55 through the piaffe), something is not right. I feel like this pair needs to go back to basics. The classic basics.
I've never seen this seat before!
this leg position I mean
@@jettegeuze122 You must tend to that point if you've ridden your horse so violently it's numb in the parts you'd usually use for aids. Remember being pushed and poked with every and each step you take and you'll learn to ignore the aid, it just keeps bumping. I mean, the mare is trained like that from the scratch. I'm pretty sure, she's kind of "hard to handle" in the barn.
Good observation. I saw that too.
Stick that spur under her rib cage. When I jumped and my leg did that…they tied my stirrups to the girth. This makes no sense. Tolerant horse. She’s lucky. 😬😔
Notice her leg position is in the piaffe? That’s where they put straps to make horses buck. This mare is a goddess for putting up with her, I’d reward her if she left her rider in the dirt and finished the test herself.
What on earth is going on with her legs? Pretty sure even a beginner rider knows not to shove their legs back and up like that . . . . .
How does a “badly trained rider” make it into the ring at such a “prestigious show venue” without judges stopping her? Political correctness? Afraid to upset the higher ups that hire them?? This is what makes so many people angry with the horse show community! Money talks and the horses suffer!
Absolutely true
Uh no. This horse is not “suffering.” He’s learning to ride this test more consistently and in order to do that, he HAS TO GO OUT AND RIDE THE TEST! He likely has better accommodations than most of you, as humans. Except most you are humans who couldn’t ride this test on Valegro with Carl Hester personally guiding you around the arena.
@@laurenkanarek5487 I normally wouldn’t bother with a reply but since you made a smartass comment, I will. Any person that could actually believe that any animal could learn anything from being bloodied in a show ring has a lot to learn. Any trainer with any integrity wouldn’t allow that horse to be ridden in that way. Carl Hester would have pulled her off the horse and called animal control and had her arrested. You, Lauren, should read the masters and learn more about “Anything Forced Can Never Be Beautiful!” Because your statement tells everyone in the comments that you don’t have a clue!!
@lindamarch - a horse can bite his tongue or lip and cause a bleed. I’m gonna go with …… option 1. You shouldn’t name drop or claim the trainer whose name you dropped would “have her arrested & call animal control.” I train everyday and any horse and rider training FEI tests or CDI tests ARE going to have sticky moments which need more “forward march,” &/or short areas of being on the forehand and seeming “too round.” This is NOT “rolkür,” AT ALL. In fact, there isn’t a single moment in THIS test where Alice couldn’t demonstrate uberstriechen on one rein or both if asked. That’s the exact opposite of hyperflexion. Further, you must not attend many shows or you’d know how frequently riders are eliminated for a spot of blood. Even Charlotte was eliminated from the GPS for blood near the spur. Go ahead and assume her trainer (you know, the guy you mentioned who would have had “Alice arrested,”) didn’t have Charlotte arrested precisely BECAUSE blood doesn’t equal “horse abuse,” OR bad riding. When our own legs are bloody from equipment, such as new boots or bloody fingers due to head strong horses - we typically do not have our horses arrested. Bye Felicia.
@@laurenkanarek5487 Wow! Was that diatribe supposed to explain what happened to a beautiful horse in a show ring, ridden by a princess with no abilities! Should I be impressed?”
Dressage is meant to be the epitome of harmony between a horse and rider. A beautiful dance. How then at this level, can be acceptable that it looks like a full on war is being fought between the horse and the rider. It is unbelievable that dressage has gotten to this level
If you watch the horse's hind legs throughout the test you will see there is something clearly bothering him, he's in pain. It gets worse as the test goes on, to the point where he is clearly lame on the rear left (@6:10). It's painful to watch.
Yep, good spot. I think you're right
Probably two fifteen you can see something is very off in the rear. There's a distinct limp. Surely she could feel that?
@@camillelong2093 👍 Yep just checked. You can see how he sort of skipped landing on that leg.
And then it also became more obvious down the centre line at the end, eg from 6:18. He tries to avoid landing on the right hind leg several times.
Overbent, resistance, etc. This is a beautiful animal trying his best, and he is LAME. That is what I took away from this. All the training or wrong training or poor riding in the world, or good riding do not excuse the fact that this horse should NOT be in this test on this day, and instead should be at the vets office getting help for his lameness. This is a video that should be titled "How to permanently ruin a horse". All the other issues can be fixed with more training, rider and horse.
I was also wondering how a horse can bear that and not show resistance ☹️ I am not daring to think about what might have happened to it
So what about her leg all the way to the bottom of the pad? With the unevenness in strides looks like to much inside rein (rollkur) and the lack of forward movement and unevenness in the hind end us probably a result of her ridiculous use of her leg aids. She also is gripping with her knees. At the end the announcer says "He's only 11 and he has a lot to learn." I'd say she has a lot to learn.
I concur. This is sad, This mare is body sore from over training ,being over ridden and getting conflicting signals from a heavy handed unbalanced rider. God bless this Mare for such a forgiving nature to STILL try to perform while keeping her cool with that hot mess going on her back.. This mare has alot of talent and if it was me I would check into a different rider after some time off.
@@firefrost9718 Great incite. The observation of the mare being sore is something I didn't even think about that nut is very true. Thanks for sharing your incite.🙂
@@janets6474 LOL, hard won Insight my hunter/jumpers taught me over the years.
The announcer ALSO clearly says, “once the horse starts leaning on rein, it is very difficult to get him back ‘up’ again.” If you have ever trained multiple horses to International GP, you would know that nearly every young, powerful horse begins on the forehand. Every top trainer knows the goal is to teach the horse to be UP in front and pushing from the hind. That’s what happens behind the scenes and even a million corrections at home doesn’t guarantee the horse will take the snaffle again during a test - after he’s chosen to lean on the curb. DH should know this, except she is neither a trainer or rider. This is definitely classical. Classical bullying. You should all be ashamed of this behavior you are demonstrating. Alice, however, should be proud. I’m certain her status as a rider & competitor outranks yours.
@@laurenkanarek5487 Alice needs some basic riding lessons. She is a laughing stock.
And for goodness sake, someone hide her spurs!
I went back and looked for videos for this rider, found one going back to 2015. She has also been a poor rider. If she has been riding that long, she should not ride like she is now. Something is definitely off. She wears probably the longest spurs I have ever seen. I cannot understand how someone with such poor mechanics is riding high level horses.
"I cannot understand how someone with such poor mechanics is riding high level horses." Answer: Money.
Rich people pay for it. Class is not a money thing. Poor horse.
The articles about the history of thos rider are very disturbing. She has called her horses "evil" from the beginning and been at war with them, while other riders could get along with them. Really disturbing.
I don't understand how in this day and age we still let them make that unnatural headset on a horse. It is cruel and unnatural for them to hold their head in that position. If you really want to see a well-trained horse let them have their head. If they do what you tell them when you're not yanking on the bit all the time and you're not putting their head to their chest then you have a well-trained horse.
YES , AND MUCH MORE
"Still"? In classical dressage, horses' heads weren't pulled into their chests. The ideal headset, with neck curved, poll at the highest point, and head at or slightly in front of the vertical, is the natural position for an Iberian-type horse with properly developed muscles when it is carrying a rider. It's that position that allows for a SOFT, steady and elastic connection between the horse's mouth and rider's hand.
I guarantee that all these dressage horses would do exactly as they were told if their heads weren't being yanked all the time; it has nothing to do with control, everything with trying to fold a big gangly warmblood (whose muscles probably aren't properly developed to boot!) into the frame of a smaller and more compact horse.
Rollkur it’s called.
Dressage is the most gentle discipline in the equine world! Take a look at what the western pleasure people do to their horses or the saddlebred discipline. Good horse people won’t force their horses do anything they can’t do. Also good dressage trainers won’t push them too young. It takes years YEARS to correctly train a dressage horse. If a dressage horse is at 8 and in the Grand Prix stage they’ve been pushed to hard! Not good training!
None
Disaster is a good choice of words. Thank you for sharing and making people aware.
I’m becoming less and less enamored with dressage. It can be abusive in many instances. Too much spur too much tension. I’ve started feeling sorry for the horses. The horses at the Spanish riding school in Jerez, Spain are brought along in the right way. Why do dressage people totally ignore Spanish school traditions? Why aren’t they interested in the Spanish and Portuguese horses?
Yup. I agree. It’s all about money and winning. What happened to the soul of the sport? Taking any horse, developing relaxation and partnership? If I want to see prancing horses, I’ll watch a saddlebred.
Me too. Can barely stand to watch even the very few that I do. It's become gross & cruel. Not for me. Most professionals don't even sched. 2 days off per week. Outdoor pasturing to let a horse be a horse 😱 - heaven forbid, the horrors! I feel so sorry for these stressed out, in pain horses. The only kind Dressage riders at Pro level that I'm aware of: Charlotte Dejardin & Carl Hester. They schedule days off or even a week off, every day turnout & pleasure rides (hacks) for their horse's mental health & relaxation.
@@mdee860 then, I’m not the only one who feels this way. It makes me sad that dressage has come to this. Those poor horses don’t get to live naturally with lots of turn out time. I also notice that many dressage horses don’t live long healthy lives. I really hate all animal cruelty in any form. Too bad it’s probably not going to change for the better.
@@awnutz - 😘 Agree. Dressage especially, but so many horses at top level get zero turn out & are treated like machines, rather than living animals with thoughts & feelings. It's so sad & cruel.
Spanish school à Vienne , pas Jerez ,les espagnols sont des brutes,les portugais encore plus. Il y a aussi le modèle du Cadre Noir de Saumur
I know very little about dressage. I always thought that to score well the rider and horse had to have an excellent connection and the instructions / directions being very subtle like almost invisible. How is it even permissible to use spurs ? All that says to me is that the rider has no control other than by inflicting pain / discomfort.
Spurs are not bad per se. Take your index fingers and poke them into the sides of your stomach. That is what spurs are supposed to do, give a gentle push/encouragement. It is way softer than kicking the horse with the heel or pressing the legs together really strongly. In theory spurs are just for some nudging. Problem is: Most riders don't use them that way.
Use of spurs adds more "buttons" to a horse's training - you can signal with spur or without to give a different type of signal. See also spur-trained Western horses, who both stop and go from a leg command.
People who have not yet been brainwashed by the dressage apologetics see the travesty clearly. Brainwashed will tell you that all these tools are good if properly used. It goes something like this: yes, I do wear iron supported boots when I train my dog, but I never use them. But he is not listening to me if I don't wear them.
You go and figure it out.
@@blauespony1013 and then u got barrel racers who just jab them suckers up the horse's side
@@joligra Only because I can run people over with a car does not mean that the car is bad and we should get rid of all cars. The same goes for airplans, kitchen knives etc.
But yeah, there are a lot of things wrong in the equestrian world and we need to address them.
Nothing more dire than watching spurs used at every stride
I also watched the dressage snd thought that quite a few horses were behind the bit and not using their quarters, some riders were holding them so tightly that the horses had no chance to relax snd come from behind. On the other hand there were some riders who looked as if they were doing nothing and their horses went beautifully - then it looked essy, as it should, even though it isn't!
This is a much fairer assessment of all the GP rides. They’re not always going to be perfect. There were lots of other rides where the horses were BTV. It’s shameful DH feels the need to single out Alice. DH (SW) can comment when (and ONLY when) she herself completes this test. IOW, never.
I've been riding dressage for over 25 years. That being said, I have ZERO ambition to show at any level. That's not why I ride. I ride for the beauty of the connection between me and my horses. That's enough for me. It's very sad to see what the sport has become at the upper levels.
I took a few lessons in dressage because I admired the discipline so much. I never intended to show, just that it seemed the epitome of great riding. Now? It’s awful. I ride my horse in a halter and feel quite successful since I never draw blood or hurt him.
So you've never competed yet compare yourself to the world's top riders, okay then.
.... that leg position, and the obvious signs of discomfort that the horse is exhibiting is truly disturbing to see at such a high level, seeing rolkuur at a high level or any level of dressage is so concerning
Normalement en dressage la position du cavalier est notée.
Comment les juges tolèrent-ils -outre la longueur des eperons- la jambe au flanc du cheval, quasi en permanence, alors que la place de la jambe est LÉGÈREMENT en arrière de la sangle, d'une part et d'autre part la jambe doit être FIXE.
Elle est éliminée pour le sang, mais elle devrait l'être de toutes façons pour la longueur des éperons, leur utilisation abusive et la place de la jambe
That poor horse. Shame on the rider and shame on everyone involved in putting this pair in the show ring.
Shame on her and any "Wanabee" that takes a short cut of pain to success and a cheap ribbon.
Well..these poor horses are trained to perform all these unatural movements over and over..this horse is ready to be released to freedom, fed up and saying I don't want to..clear enough..moving to the American kennel club..those who belong are required to fovk the tails even when s customer states no docking the A K C will win the decision..so there you go puppy run fast and turn left and swiftly yo the other side..let's watch you fall because you don't have a tail..of course there is hip displaying for the German shepherd..no camera is to get a full side view as it reviews slanted back like legs are too long but not supporting the back..
On now to the ears of the Doberman and Pit Bull..wind whistling into the ear...yep and so on and so on. Now look at the judges and commentators..dressed for a formal dinner...what would an Abberigeny (misspelled) think watching this mess?? Oh yes the cowboy teaching his horse to skid to halt..and look.how the horse turns in a tight circle..and head always down and no sense of freedom just waiting for another command Any trained performing horse..is abused and to what severity I do not know because I don't want to stomach abuse in the name of look at my evening dress, and some yo ho going around judging with a sociopathic amount of remorse for what the animal has gone through. Well take a number and line up..speak your piece and remember cruelty to animals is minimal or something like that.
The fact the horse reacted to command sounds from the ANNOUNCER instead of the rider....
This is the only time I hear a commentator mention “behind the vertical“. This happens A LOT and it is never mentioned.
This should never happen. Spurs should be short and rounded blunt not squared blunt. Her leg position shows this horse is not ready to compete at this level and should still be in training. Preferably without the massive spurring.
This horse moves like those poor Tennessee walking horses whose hooves are “sored.” Just looks in pain.
Yes yes yes
Not even close, but maybe it has rolled toe shoes.
Not half as bad, but this is a style of movement encouraged in modern dressage, sadly - high-stepping front end, low energy behind. It's bad for the horse's fitness and long-term soundness and in general it sucks!
@@ratherbfishing455 okay not even close. However, dressage like almost horse completion has been bastardized and lost its soul. For example, western pleasure????
@@awnutz Rich people ruin everything with their win at all costs attitude.
Is it just me? Or did the horse look lame initially when it entered the ring? I watched three times and I am sure thats why he is not pushing through to the piaffe! Secondly what the eff is she doing with her legs back there? I do not like her riding style at all.
Maybe lame from the rein? In German "zügellahm"
What the hell is it with her leg back in the horse's flank? Never seen something so ridiculous even in a beginner...
I love hearing comments about the horse being being the vertical, please more of that! It's not always like that, too often are horses in the same position praised for the "movement". But, something I don't agree with - it's not difficult to deal with a "horse that drops you down like that", it's difficult for the horse to deal with a rider that trains a horse like that.
Soon as you see the poll consistently lower than the 5th vertebrae you can bet they’ve been going for an appearance, or an outline, and have sacrificed function for frame earlier in the horse’s “schooling”. Poor animal had to learn every trick in the book to spare his face and his sides. He still did his best to act like he was “performing”. I got sore myself watching him having to toss his front like that. I bet his pecs, quads and psoas are sore. The ring of function was lost somewhere behind the rider’s coccyx. Her heals tried, but they couldn’t make up for that. (And did they grow his front feet to make his rear appear lower? Never mind, I might be getting paranoid.)
God bless his generous and gentle soul. May he find the hands willing to relieve him of his disguised resignation. Ego dump over. Cheers.
😢
Huh? First of all, a horse stretching his neck down is vital to its muscles. It makes him supple in the back and properly pushing with his hind legs.
If anyone of you posting on this thread believes they can ride this horse, having THESE (completely normal) tense moments, more correctly in THIS test- I welcome you to try & then post your show video here. This is tactful riding by an Adult Amateur who happened to make the long list for 2020 Olympics. “Dressage Hub. Fake News and Bully of the Better - At Your Service.” Yessss. That should be the new “Dressage” “Hub,” slogan! Hilarious!
Might have rolled toed shoes?
@@laurenkanarek5487 Even the commentator for her test was at a loss of words for how bad she was riding. Like literally, has she ever even heard of the words "stable legs" and "rollkur"? Doesn't seem like it. The first thing you learn when getting on a horse is to keep your legs long, low and still, especially in dressage. And yes that horse is tense because he is constantly being pulled btv by a harsh hand. Open your eyes, maybe then you'll see...
@@leonivonberg1354 the first thing you learn when mounting a horse is to take the rein/contact. Thought I’d just clear that up Bc this topic is now beyond boring. Alice didn’t have a great ride. Oh well. She is still considered a very tactful, experienced rider and that’s way more than can be said about ALMOST anyone commenting here. Anyone in America who takes Dressage seriously, knows DH is a joke. Borrrring.
The poor horse's head is almost on his chest. I know that rolkuur is becoming more popular but this was too much just because you can pull your horse's head to his chest by relying solely on the bridle doesn't mean he is collected under you.
I havent riden dressage in many years....we use to get penalized for being behind the vertical. I seem to see it more &more.
@@hilarydunaway4807 They no longer penalize anyone for the rollkur. And it is an illegal practice. To me this "sport" sucks more and more.
@@crazyhorselover401 just bc the horse gets behind the vertical at times does NOT mean they are practitioners of “rollkür.” My trainer rides one of my horses bit less - and the horse still finds his way btv. Powerful horses will find evasions if they are smart enough. It doesn’t equal pain nor abuse. Ridiculous.
@@laurenkanarek5487 bitless doesn’t mean soft or harmless. Bitless Bridles work with pressure on sensitive areas that can go insanely high through leverage and rollkur is just as easily reached with that. and besides that, this rider clearly is not on the level to ride this. i mean look at her legs. rollkur or not, this was painful to watch
@@lupine.spirit161 I can’t speak to what anyone else does with bit-less bridles, but when we do it, the sole purpose is to relieve extra points of pressure. Not to add them. It completely depends on how the horse is ridden. The idea is, give the horse his mouth, nose & poll - do not pull. Pulling only makes a “head strong,” horse more so. Giving makes the horse learn to use himself correctly. Can’t speak for everyone, but this has worked pretty quickly for my trainer, myself & this particular horse.
Re this test: Here, the commentator begins by saying the very commonly heard statement, “this rider is just finding her footing in this test.” All I’m saying is, as fellow riders, we should let her do that. I’m sure she is aware there were mistakes. And, a spot of blood doesn’t equal “abuse.” Shi* happens. Horses trot (or even jump) directly out of the sandbox, mid test. Not abuse. They go on bucking expeditions mid zig zag. Not abuse. It would be so much more productive to show GP tests which are nearly flawless than to pick apart this rider & her test. Perhaps, the owner of DH can post video of herself riding this test & let the viewers do the judging, then.
It’ll never happen. And not just bc DH (SW) has a personal grudge with Alice & all other riders & trainers she has hand picked to video edit. (And, you can see it during the 5-6 seconds where the horse’s mouth seems wide open- there are smudge marks which can only be seen in an edited cut.).
Instead, she is simply an angry, mentally unstable bully.
TBC- I don’t disagree that the judges, without question, favor certain riders & horses. Not all judges- but majority. It’s the system itself that’s the problem & it’s much like “grooming,” in the sexually predatorily sense of the word. I’ll get into that more sometime later. However , I do disagree with the way in which DH torturously bullies riders online - like this. And like the time DH (Susan Wachowhich) literally instructed her declining amount of viewers/followers to “go get baby making! All u have to do in dressage for a high score is get pregnant!”
I wish I were joking. But sadly, I’m not. If DH wants to make fun of riders, she should get a private fb group and go nuts. I guess the one lucky thing is, enough dressage people are all too aware of DH antics & put her on “ignore,” permanently.
In my non expert point of view it seems like at first it went pretty well and subtle, until a certain point which to me seems like the walk back, where things started going wrong, that includes being over the vertical, mouth opening, agressive leg & spur action, the pain suggesting strides etc
Right behind the big lick
I don’t normally trash eq since everyone is learning!! But this makes me want to laugh out loud! Proof that money will get you anywhere regardless of skill level.
I don't know much but I thought the aids were meant to be almost invisible..the rider's inside leg is so far back in the piaffe it's almost back to the horse's flank.
The poor thing is aching in it's hind end...
Did we all just forget the vertical being important and being behind it being such a negative?
Apparently!
the yanking on the reins omfg i cannot 💀 how is this rider even gotten this far?
Such a beautiful, talented mare! She deserved better….as they all do
I've never met a happy dressage horse and I've never met an unhappy trail horse. That should say something.
Hi. I have met probably thousands of happy D ponies in my life time; I have also met unhappy trail and western "pleasure" horses... It really circles around the training philosophy and intent. IF your intent is to have some sort of Frankenstein Grand Prix 90 day wonder ... this is what you get. IF you use classical dressage to strengthen the horse and purify their gaits, well, that is a totally different game altogether... and takes many, many years to allow the horses body to change and adapt to the training and discipline.
What an astonishing display of lower leg aids.....
Yes, horrifying
You mean upper leg? Because that's where her lower leg was most of the time... seriously, she is sitting like a jockey, not a dressage rider... I don't know if I want to laugh or to cry
@@leonivonberg1354 If she didn't have spurs on, it wouldn't be half as bad; she would have just looked ridiculous.
But to spur a horse repeatedly in such a bizarre way is cruelty and madness.
Judges should have gotten a big stick and poked her off the horse's back!😂
I've few problems with dressage, until I see top level horses in a rolkur frame for more than a minute.
And... if it takes more than ONE bit and a LONG shank bit to control the horse, then this is NOT something the animal is willingly doing.
I've no problem with a strong bit to keep a horse from bucking me off, or running away with me in a hunt field, or to keep control of a super forward eventing horse on the cross-country stage at its event.
But if competitive horses NEED harsh/multiple bits to do high level (or any level) dressage ... how can we argue that the horses love (even LIKE) their jobs.
idk about dressag specifically, but usually heels are supposed to be down, what is going on with the leg position here.
The horse is really nice but why was he so not wanting any contact with her hands? What has been going on in his home training. Also why the hell is she using her heels so high up? Looks so bad. Too powerful, too sensitive a horse for this rider and the training he has had.
U are so correct in your comments , actually I appreciate them because it validated my observations too!
Usually that is indicative of the rollkur training as is the lovely movement at the end!
It's all on the rider. No horse should be treated like this.
Why is her leg so far back?????????
Animals always suffer for the greed of people
There's a lot wrong about this rider. The double bridle, the length of the spurs, the position of her legs when changing transitions etc etc. I'm not a dressage rider, but I have always been led to believe that you shouldn't be able to see the aids a good rider uses to change from one transition to another. I would class her as an extremely bad rider, and with no thought of how her horse is feeling in this over the top performance.
My God. Not even going to bother talking about her legs or the horse's obvious pain and tension; she is hauling on the reins so hard she literally pulls herself out of the saddle several times. And she bounces all over the place with her feet too busy trying to rake him with those ridiculous rodeo spurs to maintain a good seat, which must be hell on the horse's back, especially since she is so off balance and not collecting him properly, so his back is hollowed out. Apparently no one told her that she doesn't get extra points for raking him like a bull rider. So much for spurs being a subtle aid in the rider's toolbox. I would yank someone out of the saddle onto their ass if they tried to ride one of my horses like that. Disgusting.
Amen!! Absolutely agree!!
Can't disagree!
The horses are magnificent whether they are perfect
or not they are not machines!
“A little bit of tension” in the collected walk is the understatement of the year…maybe matched with “a little bit behind the vertical”. Her leg is awful, how can an advanced rider have their leg swing so far back? My trainer would have taken spurs off me and told me you don’t earn them back until they are still.
I haven't ridden for a long time, and never used spurs or a double bridle. But I would love to use spurs on this rider see how they like it 😢
Dressage is supposed to look effortless, like you're just along for the ride. WTF is this?? This is like taking your "service dog" into the store in a muzzle.
RE, Kay Ruffini, I watched someone looking to buy a dressage horse in Spain, he commented on how some trainers use spikes on the nosebands.
what a shame, horse obviously NOT trained in classical dressage but circus style. horrible movement with frontleg
probably "rollkur" trained horse , same style as horses trained by Gal, Werth and others....
a shame. these riders bring dressage to an end.
Actually, @oswaldwagner this horse WAS trained in classical dressage & I would challenge you to have a better ride than Alice in THIS test, any day. The fact is, you have no idea how Werth trains students & horses or how Gal did. Werth is probably the highly decorated dressage rider of our time. I invite you to audit her clinic at Global this year. You may learn something. This horse is leaning on the curb in tense areas and once that occurs, it’s EXTREMELY difficult to pick him (or any horse) back up again. Alice did the best she could with what she had - and THAT is what makes her a pro. She may ride as an Ammy but her skill set here proves she can take an imperfect test and make the best of it. Leave her alone.
Unfortunately that is what dressagecompetition is all about today. And the judges rewards this type of riding.
@oswald wagner Definitely non the same style as Gal and Werth
@@laurenkanarek5487 It's quite clear you love her and enjoy defending her and her methods. I don't know if you're purely blissfully ignorant or if you're training horses in exactly the same way, and need to tell yourself lies in order to not feel bad about it, like how the horse shown was trained in classical dressage... anyone with a bit of knowledge can see it was not.
@@jayATUK well- then you must not have “a bit of knowledge.” Perhaps, way less knowledge than the ridiculous bully who runs this site. Since DH owner has exactly zero knowledge, you must be in the negative zone. You have no idea how I train my horses or who my trainers are. My horses are all in top form (like Alice’s) The fact of the matter is this: SW (DH’s owner) doesn’t ride at all- has numerous photos which many people have screenshot, with herself trying really hard to get an allegedly already trained “GP,” horse to “trot.” It refused. Probably Bc Susan Wachowhich was yanking and pulling on the snaffle & curb reins to the actual point of true Rollkür. It was very clear the horse did NOT want this woman on its back. Further, on my own my IG page, I posted a screenshot of Wachowhich sharing with the class her REAL purpose of Dressage Hub. My interest is in facts. She provided them for all to see. I have zero interest in watching manipulated videos & assisting DH in bullying the riders (whom she could only wish to be one day) who are out there riding the tests. @laurenkana …… scroll down my pics and you’ll find exactly the message to which I’m referring. I’ll quote it here too: “Did you think DH was a career for me? It’s just a place where I like to fk with crazy horse bi***s. I don’t make money on it. But as long I’m the talk of every gathering, I’m happy!” (Direct quote.) Today, I will post the photos straight off SW’s Fb page (not DH page, of course- she’d never put them there) of herself TRYING to ride a horse. I think you’ll agree this woman should find another sport to criticize. To be able critique a sport, one must be able to actually participate in that same sport. Since she knows nothing, she’s now attacking those who do: THE JUDGES!!!!
And fyi- this is not the only video I’ve commented on. So there goes your vapid theory that “I must love her,” or “train my horses incorrectly.” Neither are true. I just think Dressage Hub should change it’s name from “The Educational place for happy riders and horses,” (or something like that) to “Dressage Hub: the place where know-nothings come to bully decorated riders.” Bc- that is it’s ONLY intention. And my IG page has literal proof. Thanks for stopping by though!
What does eliminated for blood mean??? I am a newbie. I assumed it is literal. Either the horse or rider shed blood???
They found blood on the horse at the tack inspection after her ride. Usually from spurs or in the mouth.
Can someone please tell me what is meant by 'eliminated for blood at the tack check'? Thank you.
It means they were eliminated from the competition when they checked the tack, and found blood, as it's a (potential) welfare issue.
I am sorry, but geez, what a crappy rider. At that level? Are American judges blind?
American judges are paid
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
@@DressageHub I understand your point, however Being paid is not an excuse for poor judging! Everything is a learning experience and this judge is offering nothing of value to this rider!
Everything that is wrong with "dressage" today. Why do I watch this? (I don't very often anymore...)
I used to work for an Olympic dressage rider and she would always stop and give her horse sugar lumps during their schooling sessions. During a test she did the halt and immobility, and he kept turning his head around for his sugar lump! She thought it was funny but Shayen was most put out he didnt get his treat
So I watched Alice ride Jane at the dressage festival in Chicago 7 year old class 8-29-22. Horse looked like it was gaited at the trot. Big head bob, flailing front legs and hunched dragging hind legs that were so awkward just like it was kind of gaiting. She got second! I was shocked. Also noticed she rode two black horses and this video 📷 is also a third black horse. Does she ride only black horses?
That rider shouldn't be around horses. Just how she uses the Spur means she's very used to "misusing" it to the point the horses go numb on the "regular" spot where spurs are to be used. So she had to go all the way up to have some effect. I don't want to know how that poor animal is being ridden behind closed doors when she in public has to use the Spur up there. Trashy rider. Poor animal has to deal with that rider.
Through the whole course the horse clearely wasn't comfortable. And especially after the drops of blood it was so clear to the eye that the horse was in pain. It's so obvious and yet people cheer? The moderator stuttered as he saw the blood. Like.. Bruh.
Riders like those piss me off. As soon as they've a bit with a lever especially those bits, all they use is the rein for the lever function. Which is something that shouldn't be done. Ffs even in medieval times when those bits were used the rider would not even use the reins. And here we are. In modern society. Making those specific bits even worse by adding a chain and have riders like that who just pull on the rein all the time.
I wish they would ban the use of spurs
That's because you don't know what spurs are for
@@HalcyoneStarling with 30 years experience with horses,I’ve seen the damage over the years,and never have I used them!
@@louiseking I cannot trust you with that and you cannot trust me if I told you my credentials either. Do you do dressage? Do you know that a horse can be trained to respond differently to different pressure spots and spurs are meant to increase the level of precision? In which way spurs can damage horses exactly if used properly?
What a lovely mare. She is so stopped up in front that it's like she has nowhere to go.
Shocking! So heavy with the spur and the spur was back by the corner of the saddle pad
I'm trying to educate myself and understand, was that white underneath the saddle pad sweat? And if so, could that indicate that she'd already stressed him out? If not, what could it be and what could have caused it?
Genuinely just trying to understand what is happening.
Also that has horse looks uncomfortable to me in the walk, am I right in saying that?
Hi Annie,
the white underneath the saddle pad is white, frothy sweat. There are 2 types of sweat - clear sweat and the white sweat. Clear sweat is healthy, whereas white frothy sweat indicates excessive heat/overworking the horse. Since it is underneath the saddle pad, I'm going with excessive heat. She might have been warming up the horse for too long, without giving the horse a chance to cool off underneath the saddle. Or maybe it was just a really hot day. White sweat contains proteins and doesn't manage to cool the horse down unlike clear sweat.
Yes the horse looks uncomfortable - not just in the walk, but in all the paces. The hindquarters aren't taking on weight and collecting, they are just sticking out at the back with no or very little overtracking. This could indicate stiffness in the back, pain, or the rider pulling back so much the horse can't step under. The riders legs are bent at the knee with the spurs touching the horse even near the flank and other sensitive areas, which could add to the tension this horse is feeling.
@@jayATUK Thats such a perfect explanation - thank you so much!!
It is pure torture for the horses!
Dressage is a beautiful sport where horse and rider become one and perform stunning moves that are natural to horses and can be seen when watching them communicating with other horses. I loved my horses equestrian sporting and just having a bloody ball being goofy with my hooved friends. I am so very fortunate to of had the opportunity to of experienced this and have the gift of wonderfull memories of all my horses. They all lived to a ripe old age but I was still crushed when they left. Still brings tears to my eyes when I remember the amazing awards they won with me.
The horse has so much power and looked absolutely miserable being forced to do the most unnatural thing a horse could possible do. I feel sorry for dressage horses because I know how they are trained.
I guess / hope she will review the video an catch to learn the missing points
It's so obvious that he cannot concentrate with the pain that he is in
You can tell the horses heart isn't in it.
I rode at dressage many years ago, but it seems like her horse is really falling behind the bit for the majority of the ride. The horse is telling her her hands are too strong. (Or the bit too harsh as other have mentioned).
When the patrons stop supporting this type of cruelty with their wallets, we’ll see much needed change.
My riding teacher always told us the story on how he gave a few military dudes with way too harsh hand riding lessons with fishing wire for reins.... Just sayin
Love when commentator clicked,so was I! Horse was hurting, did not want to go forward
When I was young and riding (dressage was not really my thing but we tried!). I loved watching on to, because the riders barely moved. Now they seem to do weird exercises whilst riding!
I have ridden since I was 8, that's 34 years and never have I seen a horse bite it's lip. Once have I ridden a horse that unfortunately hurt his lip because his lip got caught in the bit mostly because my hand was to hard. It was a heavy bit. It didn't even bleed but I felt awful. The blood on the dressage horses like this it because of the hands and a heavy bit and lack of training on the rider. They almost never bite their lip they almost always hurt their mouths because of the bit, come on now. I never will ride a heavy bit again, if i can't control a horse with a normal bit, it means I don't ride well enough. As if you can really stop a horse on the bit, it's the seat that does most of the work, the bit is more an emergency break.
Selten so eine schlechte hilfegebung gesehen , sie hat Glück das dieses Pferd so einen tollen Charakter hat 😢
The rider clearly didn’t learn the basics. How did they get to this level? There’s to much spur contact! I use spurs as well but there dull and I only use them to help my horses transitions! As a saddle seat rider even I see the head position has to much pressure and to close to the horses chest. My horse has neck pain from previous owners riding but he still can have a nice headset without me pulling on him constantly. The position looks painful for the horse… and who told the rider to have their legs behind the saddle pad? The keg position is WAY off and if this rider should continue
competing they need to go back to basics and ride with care. The horse deserves better and maybe with a better rider could be a star! ( Also is it just me or does that bit look wrong? )
Watched her school at Devon. Brutal!!
Next time film it was send it to me. I have heard rumors about her warm ups
There's a reason why her horses never last very long.
lol wtf is she doing in the piaffe
We made a TikTok about her leg
Omg... I'm embarrassed for this... The horse is lovely & trying so hard to please... & Probably horse praying to please get to the last centerline finished salute. Please stop. I swear I feel the reasons for the commentators clucks... The commentator was the absolute best part, helping me to endure this. Even a chuckle or two at his unintentional humor. Hilarious guy while still very professional. Loved the commentary!
The commentator helped me a lot as well, he was so correct and still professional!
I did feel bad for the horse too! He was trying to do what she wanted and was so tense , Spurs were way too much on the horse! ! I just assumed the blood was found on his sides because of the spurs but maybe it was in the mouth , God forbid!
What has happened to dressage? The ability to demonstrate the dance a horse does on his own in the wild. That is what the lippauzon training was historically trying to achieve.
Question: Is this horse now in danger of being sold at auction?
I've always found a happy, healthy horse is more than willing to listen and enjoy his work. I mean do we humans do our best work with a headache or backache? Of course not! It's the same for every living thing on the planet, it's not rocket science!! 😡
The rider and horse need different signals for different movements, so the horse doesn’t get mixed signals. She was just signifying that “when I put my leg back, you do this.” Etc. His gait does look weird at some moments though.
Per Dressage-News: “Alice Tarjan of the USA on Candescent had a disappointing European debut. The pair were eliminated after the horse apparently bit the inside of his mouth to draw blood.”
🤣🤣🤣 Dressage News is in bed with Alice -they Will say anything to make her look good. Ken isn't even a dressage rider and that site is barely news. Stop posting it here
Your comment doesn't give the full context like the video and commentary, which paints a more accurate, and different picture.
The position of her legs is horrific!
You can kind of see the blood at the end of the test… when the sun reflects onto it. It’s so crazy the way that these heartless people abuse their horses