All the Latest on Tesla Powerwall 3 - The *New* Standard for Home Batteries
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- This video covers all the latest information on their Powerwall 3 battery, and discusses my view on why it's going to be the market leading home battery product, just like the Powerwall 2 was.
Tesla website:
tesla.com/en_gb/powerwall
Telsa Powerwall 3 - The future of home battery storage:
• Tesla Powerwall 3 - Th...
Spirit Energy Powerwall 3 video:
• New Tesla Powerwall 3 ...
Solar Array Oversizing - All the Benefits and Considerations:
• Solar Array Oversizing...
8 Key Factors When Choosing the IDEAL Home Battery:
• 8 Key Factors When Cho...
Gary's Octopus Energy Referral Code:
share.octopus.energy/blue-win...
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:43 Spirit Energy
2:23 Capacity and Power
4:22 LFP Chemistry
4:54 Emergency Power Supply (EPS)
6:08 What's the point of EPS with PW3?
6:51 Built-in Solar Inverter
8:50 Using PW3 with Microinverters
9:34 Active Thermal Management
10:19 Integration with Energy Providers
11:02 Powerwall 3 Pricing
13:38 Outro
If you're getting a lot from my videos, and would like to support me in my efforts to help everyone, here are a few ways to do this:
1. I have a Patreon account, which gives you access to the "pro" editions of my various solar utilities: / garydoessolar
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3. You could www.buymeacoffee.com/GaryDoes... :-)
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(Please note: despite my channel name, I don't provide, nor consult on solar installations)
(c) 2024 Gary Does Solar. All rights reserved.
DISCLAIMER
Whilst every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of the content in this video, no warranty for that content is provided, nor should it be implied. Viewers acting on the content, do so at their own risk.
#powerwall #elon #tesla - Jak na to + styl
![Tesla Taxi FULL HEALTH CHECK: Is The Battery RUINED After 430,000 Miles? [Episode 4]](/img/n.gif)
* NOTES SINCE PRODUCTION *
I've had a questions from a couple of viewers asking me if I have received any compensation from Tesla for this video. I can confirm I have not received any compensation nor benefits from Tesla for this or any other videos I have made. And that I'll always mark videos as "Paid Promotion" should that ever be the case.
Great Summary Gary! I met with Tesla at the recent Intersolar event in Munich and Tesla Energy reps have told me it is LFP chemistry. Also good to note - PW3 has G98/99 approval for 3.68/5/6/7/8/9/10 & 11.04 kW (Not 11.5kW FYI) which means that even if the DNO places some restrictions on import/export at your home, you should still be able to have Powerwall 3 installed, just with a restricted charge/discharge rate. We are on the Tesla Powerwall 3 Installer Training in a couple of weeks time so will be posting a video update on our own channel in the coming weeks, but delivery estimates are for October right now so we are encouraging people to get on our waiting list as we anticipate high pent up demand. Those with PW2 who want to expand their capacity might consider doing so sooner rather than later as sales of PW2 will be phased out in the UK at the end of the year as PW3 starts to roll in. DC expansion for PW3 should be coming in Q1 2025 hopefully...
Thanks for the great feedback. Video should go live tomorrow. Hope you had a great time in Munich - I used to be there a lot with my day job (in the mobile industry). Sounds like it was a good show! Thanks for sharing the insight regarding PW3, and I look forward to your video post the training!
Agreed, anyone thinking about a PW3 really does need to get on the waiting list now, to secure a (reasonably) early installation date.
Artisan's website is www.artisanelectrics.co.uk
Great insight as always Gary! You have such a professional demeanor and your videos have valued and concise information presented to a high standard! Look forward to your next installment
Wow - that's high praise indeed - thank you! Yeah, I've got quite a backlog of videos coming... Next up is PredBat!
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth....
Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste
🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤
I’m just trying to do my bit, but thank you 🙏
Very interesting and informative.... All the best....keep up the great work bringing people up to speed.
Thanks very much for this great feedback! I'll keep the informative videos coming... :-)
Officially signed up to install PW3 in October . Great informative video Gary
That’s brilliant - roll on October! And thank you for the great feedback on the video 😀❤️
How much did it come to altogether and do you have an estimation of how much it'll likely save you money each year / pay itself off?
@@HecticGlenn that costs me £7500 + DNO fee. With the help of chatgpt, I estimate the breakeven point at 6.5 years. My average consumption is around 8-9kwh per day. 😉
I had a Powerwall 2 and solar installed in May this year, here in the UK. Despite the poor weather, I have been virtually 'off-grid' since then - though I have to advise that my solar panels are in the perfect position. The Powerwall 2 just does its thing and the app is great. Totally recommend it so far, will be interesting to see what happens over the full year.
How much was the total cost of the solar battery and installation?
@@mrelaxed around £15k
That's brilliant :-)
Thanks Gary. Very interesting. I was thinking of switching to Octopus anyhow, so seeing that you have a code for them is an extra bonus.
Hi John, cheers for the great feedback on the video. And I'd be honoured if you used my referral code - £50 for each of us - thank you! :-)
Interesting point at 8:55 re disabling the inverter (option) and using microinverters! Good to have this flexibility. Thanks for the VIDEO.
You're very welcome! :-)
What if you have both, would it be possible to dc connect one system and ac ‘connect’ the other system?
Well put together overview of the latest iteration from the Powerwall Tesla series.
Thank you 🙏
Been waiting for this video ❤
Cheers - hope you like it.
For everyone else, I promise not to go on about Tesla Powerwalls for a while - I know they’re not everyone’s cup of tea 👍🏻
Well done 👍 Very informative. I’m looking forward to being able to upgrade and add powerwall 3 to my Tesla system here in US
Great stuff! And hopefully that won't be too long away... :-)
Excellent Video Thank You!!!
Cheers for the great feedback! 😀👍🏻
Great & Informative Vid. Gary as Always!
Can't wait for the New Nine ones you mentioned!
I'm close to deciding on my own New System inc. All in One Battery/Inverter Mgt. etc similar to the new PW3! 😃
I hope you have some help if necessary in producing these World Class Tutorials as it must be a Mammoth Task! ..... 😀👏👍
Thank you! :-) And good luck with your decision making. Meanwhile, it's just me I'm afraid, making the videos, but I'm hoping to put out one a week for the next few weeks...
Once again a very imformative video. thank you
Cheers Philip - this one took quite a while to make! :-)
Great video Gary, and thank you for the kind words. Tesla do consistently hit the nail on the head and other battery manufacturers will have to follow suit. I look forward to continued collaboration in the future - Tok.
My pleasure, Tok :-) ...and yeah, I'm expecting to have some collaboration with a few solar installation companies soon with something I'm working on... All the best with the Many hundreds of PW3 installations I'll expect you'll be doing!
Another succinct informative video Garry cheers.
Ive just signed for a PW3 installation in September. Considered waiting a year to see if price comes down, but on Intelligent Octopus Go I'm keen to get the savings this winter running the home on 7p pkwh. Also demand for pw3 may go up with Tesla Energy launching next year, so possible prices of pw3 may not come down any time soon.
Thanks 🙏 Yeah, a little more expensive than the competition, but great batteries 😀 Hope all goes well with the install when it comes 👍🏻
Great video Gary! Very interesting to see the possibility of stacking 16 batteries using the DC Expansion packs.
Cheers Conor - yeah, that's a heck of a lot of capacity, but quite a price tag with it! :-)
As a tesla M3 owner I’ve had a great owenrship experience and am leaning towards a Powerwall 3. Your comments about the price being expected to fall as demand levels out are giving me a reason to wait a bit longer. Perhaps even waiting a year I will save considerably!
I'm hoping to get a Tesla one day, and so will look forward to the experience you are having! It's hard to predict the future, but lithium prices are dropping like a stone this year, so I expect that to be reflected in battery pack prices before long!
@@GaryDoesSolar
I bought a used Tesla M3 with 58k miles just over a year ago. You'd be surprised how cheap they are used. I never thought I'd ever be able to afford one. They have little wear and tear and very little maintenance required so great to buy used. It's been amazing and I don't know any other car that compares, even other EVs. Just have a look at autotrader, for £15k you can buy a 2020 Model 3 like mine. If you have an ICE car you might save over £200 every month that could go a long way towards paying for the car if you get a loan. In my case I'm actually saving money compared to my previous 2015 Kia Diesel. For a while I was driving to work in central London costing me 50p return in electricity and less than £2 to park all day on the street instead of my £13.90 train ticket, every single day, just saving on train tickets it was already over £200 per month on top of driving at 2p/mile which since the 1st of July has gone down to 1.75p/mile. Do your proper research taking everything in account like not having any scheduled services, not needing to change oil, timing belt, event brake pads and they're hardly used, no road tax, no ULEZ, no congestion charge etc etc. You'll be very surprised.
Great summary!
Thanks for the great feedback! 😀
Gary just wanted to say that your videos are great and you as a person are very easy to listen to , I’ve learnt a lot so thanks .
I’d also like to say that if anyone is looking for more energy independence you will need at least 2 Tesla batteries . I live in north wales roof SSW is a sun trap all day. If I didn’t have two batteries I would still be needing some grid power all through the summer . Have 12 panels and solar edge . But most of the uk has days that are cloudy and wet all through the summer and you just don’t get enough power generated to last through those dull days . Also all my appliances are new and of the highest energy efficiency . Personally I prefer being off grid , I’ve seen very irregular readings , what I would call criminal activity readings off the Tesla app and frankly don’t trust others being able to access and control my system and potentially doing anything they like with my power .
Thanks very much for your kind words, and also for sharing those points.
As usual, Tesla comes with an excellent product
Yeah, I'm finding it hard to fault it! The price is an issue, but actually, it's not that much more expensive than other brands....
This looks quite appealing-and I agree with your “wait till next year” recommendation. In the meantime I’m going to have to see how I can connect my existing AC solar power feed directly into the unit -so I can retain that 40p/kWh FiT kick back I get. Alternatively: work out if/how I could use metering within the powerwall to measure the exact amount of energy supplied by DC coupled solar. Given our inverter is about 13/14 years old I should be planning for that soon anyway
Thanks Gary, I've recently had a give energy battery installed, 11 Kwh, and is working fine so far. I recently had my latest bill for the month and my use was priced at £1.00 and change. However my standing charge was over £15.00. Gutted!! 🤣🤣
Yeah, the UK government needs to fix the standing charge as soon as possible - so many elderly and vulnerable people are being disproportionately affected by it! And of course, it goes against the whole notion of homeowners trying to mitigate their grid pull.
I have had the Power Wall 2 for four years without a hiccup. I live in California and got the Power Wall because of the risk of losing power during elevated fire risk periods. Well I haven’t lost power once since I had my solar and Power Wall installed.
That’s a great case study for the product - thanks for sharing! 👍🏻
very good
Thanks Paul, for this great feedback! :-)
Thank you! Informative as always. One question that could be illuminated in a further video re: PW3 is - what if the customer needs 3-phase home power?
Cheers for the great feedback! My understanding is that 3-phase support is coming early next year :-)
A very good question, because a lot of residential heat pumps are running on 3 phase. As such people need to heat home or warm water in a backup way.
In the UK 3 phase is still quite uncommon although I know some people are being converted to 3 phase when they have solar fitted as this is the way to avoid grid export restrictions that they’d get on single phase. Not heard about 3 phase heat pumps, I have two large heat pumps and they are on the same single phase
I really love your videos Gary - thanks a lot! I just have one concern: you are clearly very positive about Tesla and their products. Please could you just state for the record that you are not receiving any compensation or benefits from Tesla?
Thanks for your very kind words, Mike. I am happy to make that statement. I have not received any compensation nor benefits from Tesla for this or any other videos I have made. I'll always mark videos as "Paid Promotion" should that ever be the case.
We have two power wall 2s. There are plenty of times we wish we had more storage, but all of these times happen because we don't have enough solar generation. I'm pretty sure if we doubled or quadrupled our solar production, then we'd really just need enough storage to get through dark hours and quite frankly if the battery depletes itself at 4AM, we may not notice.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Ian. Yeah, I can imagine that with products like PW3, and battery prices continuing to fall, that over the next 3-5 years, people (including yourself) will steadily expand their storage capacity to the levels you’ve quoted 😀👍🏻
Great video as always Gary. I'm surprised you didn't compare to the Givenergy All In 1 which I would have thought a direct competitor at 13.5kw, UK company and cheaper. Just to clarify the Tesla will cope regardless of straight DC from the roof or using Enphase inverters to AC ?
Thanks Ian - I wanted this video to be just about the PW3, really. And I'm sure other channels will make comparisons to other similar products. To your question, yes, let's say there was 16kW of solar, the PW3 is able to put 5kW DC into the battery and convert and output the remaining 11kW to AC.
Hi Garry, would you like to make a video about the Enwall from Enercap? This is a solid state battery, which will ultimately become the future. The specs: 100% DOD, 500,000 cycles and no degradation the first 15 years. I don't think 99% RTe is possible with converting ac-dc-ac. In any case, specifications are mind-blowing!
I’ll take a look. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Specifications are both a little too good to be true (99% RTE) and also vague and poorly worded.
It claims to be a hybrid solution of graphene, tantalum capacitors and sealed cells. No mention of what is inside the sealed cell.
Their website has some schoolboy errors on it. I think they’ve got a way to go to be convincing
I have a powerwall2 and yes they are good and suites my needs. The powerwall3 rolls everything into one. This is not in my opinion great, unless they are absolutely reliable. The reason is the powerwall3 is battery, inverter and solar pv all in one. I would like to know if there are any failure modes that would allow the unit to still run some of the system.
As I have had a solar inverter fail before I’m not keen on loosing everything in the system with a fault.
That said if they are doing battery unit extra capacity (dc) that would reduce the cost of extra kWh’s on your system.
Oh and the power backup switch is nice bonus, yes it’s been used a lot due to out area supply
That's a great point - I'll see what I can find out...
Innovation, innovation, and more innovation. Thanks, Gary. Other systems are possibly cheaper, but this stands out, and for me [in the UK], Octopus integration is key... now making my investment in the GivEnergy AIO under scrutiny. And if your DNO would not allow you to have that level of output to the grid [limited] one could even consider going off grid with that capacity
Hi Kristian, yeah - I do like it that Tesla is showing the way for other manufacturers to follow. As it happens, I'm meeting with a number of DNOs in London next month, and I'll be quizzing them about how they determine export limits for domestic properties...
@@GaryDoesSolar Export limits info would be brilliant as I do wonder how they calculate it. Not to mention what it actually means.
As an existing Powerwall 2 owner, I would raise a slight issue with your use of the word “seamlessly”, when talking about the PW taking over in the event of an outage. It’s definitely noticeable in the home: PCs will restart etc. If one simulates an outage, and manually isolates the house from the grid using the Tesla app, that is indeed seamless, so if someone was aware of a planned outage, then the blip could be mitigated against, I guess, but if it’s unexpected, I believe the cutover time is in the region of 20 ms. In fairness to Tesla, they don’t claim it’s got UPS capability, and I think the only current domestic solution (available in the UK) which does offer UPS is the Sigenergy SigenStor.
I have a PW2 and live in a rural area with frequent power cuts in NZ and mine is pretty much seamless. Just wonder if there is a glitz with your install?
Worth getting your PW2 checked... In any case, I believe the PW3 is seamless.
It’s not UPS like but definitely you are not aware of power cuts unless you are staring at a light bulb. Granted that we are mostly laptop, even the fiber optic modem is kept up, and heat pumps. It’s a fraction of a second enough for the residual left electricity on the circuits not to reset the appliances. If your takes a second or more have the installer check his work.
I have Powerwall 2's as well and agree with this. The Powerwalls are not UPS and if you have a power outage it is not seamless backup. I have had to put small UPS units on some of my equipment to over come the delay. I spoke with Tesla support about this and they confirmed that there will be a delay in the Backup coming in if there is a heavy draw at the time of the Power outage. When I was sold the system I was told that it was seamless backup which it is not!
I installed a Tesla PW 2 about a year ago here in Melbourne Australia. In the first 6 months we had 3 power outages. For us it was a seamless experience and on 2 occasions I didn't know it had happened until the app told me. In all cases my computer (Apple Mac) just "soft blinked" and kept going. I run a recording studio at home, I don't want any interruption to the power supply. Part of the installation was fitting another fuse box that takes over from the regular one when the power goes out and the battery kicks in. I assume that all installations do this?
These appliances are complex in nature so having good hardware and software that “just work” is just as important and it costs. US companies such as Tesla/Enphase have fewer anomalies as Class Action lawsuits ensure they fix issues quickly and effectively unlike some mfrg entities in far east.
I agree, and good point about the lawsuits.
Well, I can see you seem very convinced by the Tesla products. I have no experience for them but the certainly sound good to hear you speak about them. You aren't on their Sales force are you?...:-)
Hi Peter, yeah I really do like Tesla products, and am happy to tell you I don't have any commercial relationship with them, nor have been asked to promote their products.
Tesla PowerWalls are quite a bit more expensive here in Thailand but Chinese Batteries using CATL LFP cells are only £160 per kWh. I am off-grid with 20kW of PV 36kWh of domestic batteries and my BYD Seal’s V2L adding extra backup when needed. The feed-in tariff is only 5p/kWh with 5kW of PV max allowed (Videos of my setup on my channel)
Wow - that's a great price for batteries!
Thanks Gary - another great video. I'm potentially looking for a battery only solution with Octopus Intelligent Go but install may have to be outside. Do you have any thoughts on how that could impair performance? I know my EV car range degrades significantly in cold weather and wondered if the same applies here?
Hi @airtyke - thanks for the kind words :-)
Worth watching this video I made about how lithium-ion batteries manage in the cold: czcams.com/video/e_RNL03ync0/video.htmlsi=GdtnXl6JbepaYwNc
I’d advice people who can wait a year or two to do so. The cost of PW3’s will reduce significantly and guaranteed there will be some glitches with the first year or two’s models that need ironing out.
Cheers Richard - yeah, I'm expecting PW3 prices to fall in line with declining lithium battery prices generally - great news for anyone looking to buy a home battery!
I’m a Tesla fanboy, so of course I like the PW3. I live in Fresno, California and I have a 7.695 kWp solar system installed by Sun Run in 2018 by the previous owner. I want to add 2 PWs and my quote is about $22,000 before federal and PG&E incentives. Probably about $14k after the incentives. I can’t justify spending $14k when my annual true up is less than $100.
That's fair comment. I'm expecting home battery prices to continue to fall over the next year, which might help with the justification...
Great specification, looks to be giving other battery manufacturers a real run for their money. Tesla do have a reputation for products just working out of the box unlike some other competitors where things like multi-battery setups are “coming soon” and there are still firmware issues. Of course any product is subject to teething problems but Tesla probably have a bigger testing budget than others. Considering that it includes a high capacity inverter, the price isn’t too awful
I agree. And the UK price seems to be similar to the GivEnergy AIO.
Garry you’re a wealth of information!
Can you tell me how compatible the Tesla power wall 3 would be installed at a residential property with 3 phase power?
I’m in Brisbane Australia and have a 19.8 kw solar array (54 panels) that produces 120 kWh plus on a good sunny day, and 20 kWh on an overcast rainy day. I only get 5c per kWh exported and pay over 30c per kWh I purchase overnight.
Thanks for your kind words! :-)
Now, for the situation you describe, I think PW3 would be eminently suitable come next year, when 3-phase support is added. PW3 is able to accommodate an array of that size without problem.
@@GaryDoesSolar Thank you for your reply. I will continue watching your channel and hold off just that little bit longer to see the 3-phase support added. Cheers!
We're in the process of getting the Eco4 grant for solar & heat pump. This grant doesn't permit hybrid inverters or batteries. So I'm looking for ...perhaps the Powerwall? Will V3 be able to do some diverting to an immersion heater for HW?
Hi Steven, did the grant say why hybrid is not allowed? Bear in mind that the built-in inverter in a PW3 is hybrid. You can still divert excess solar to an immersion heater irrespective of what inverter and battery you use as it's a separate system - see my video here for details: czcams.com/video/6zc1g1bz0eA/video.htmlsi=TDP7g2vP86ySbnx3
@@GaryDoesSolar thanks. It looks like you can fit the diverter yourself.
Hi Gary, great videos. UK based, is it definitive that we will be able to mix PW2 and 3? A friend has a PW2 and is wanting to add another battery for capacity only. What do you recommend please
Thanks, and yes, PW3 compatibility with PW2 coming very soon! As your friend already has a PW2, then they could simply add other PW2, no?
I wonder if they do testing the power walls being in humidity… My garage is incredibly humid at least three months out of the year and I always am concerned about moisture getting into things overtime
13.5 kWh wouldn’t be enough to power any of the homes here where I am in Canada, especially in the peak of summer and in the peak of winter. We would need three times that for single days use. Why the power wall is a pretty product, there are much more economical options out there that provide similar interface experience and automations. And for those that might have a little bit more interest on the tech side, you can do even better in terms of affordability.
Yeah, agreed - for those who know what they're doing, there are less expensive ways to build a large home battery capacity.
It depends for how long. I'm also in Canada & it is sufficient for my needs. Emergency power & cheaper to run on Powerwall than prime time energy rate until I can charge back at low price after midnight.
hi garry, yes i used your referal code
one question
i have give energy allinone, can i add the tesla PW3,
is tey any way its possible
Thanks very much for using my referral code - very much appreciated! Now I wouldn’t recommend adding another battery from a different manufacturer because they’ll end up fighting with each other. One day, there will some standard for communications between solar, battery and other related products, but today each manufacturer has their own communication ecosystem, which is closed to other manufacturers…
Depends how you set them up…. But they’d likely end up shuffling energy back and forth between themselves if you aren’t careful.
I don't yet have solar PV but can now see a case for adding a battery system to make better use of power generated with tariffs such as those from Octopus. My roof shape is complex and I had thought to start with one area that would allow me to use a smaller inverter so as to stay within the 3.68kw generation limit for an installation without having to seek approval from my DNO. Clearly a Powerwall 3 could output way more than 3.68kw, irrespective of the solar PV sizing, presumably this would require me to ask permission from my DNO which may not be granted ?
Worth chatting with some of your neighbours with solar already to see what limitation the DNO has placed for them. That’s not to say you’ll be offered the same, but it could provide a good indication.
Gary, Powerwall 3 is not the "new" standard for home batteries. Tesla is finally choosing the LFP chemistry. There are other companies out there that are on their 10th generation of a Lithium Ion Phosphate residential battery. I am glad to see that Tesla has finally embraced the better, longer lasting, better performing battery chemistry. Also, make sure to read the fine print. Tesla batteries are built for self-consumption and backup. I believe they also have to be tied to solar, not direct to grid. The actual trend for energy storage is grid-tied batteries that complement solar. Batteries need to do much more than just simple backup. They must become resources that are to be used and leveraged daily versus wait on a grid outage. That is the only way to transition to a smarter grid and more responsive energy services.
Good to debate on this. My argument in the video is that the following specification is ideal for the mass market:
- single unit
- 13.5kWh battery storage
- 11.5kW continuous power output
- Circa 30kW peak power output (for starting AC units)
- built-in string inverter with 3 (or 6) MPPTs handling up to 20kWp of arrays
- Full home backup (including continued solar generation)
To make a persuasive counter argument, perhaps you could identify products with a higher specification than this, or why any of these features are not important.
I believe that Tesla are running a virtual system which you have to sign up to but they can then remotely switch you battery to the grid in times of high demand...
I have solar and a Powerwall 2 (installed in 2019) and have had no issues. If we were to get a longer term power outage due to a cyclone then my understanding is that once the battery is empty we would be without any power because the inverter is separate so the home nor the batteries could be supplied by our solar panels without grid back up.
Would this be different with the Powerwall 3 having a built in inverter? If so this would be a major selling point for locations such as ours.
My understanding is that with PW2 and PW3, your solar system will continue to operate in the event of a grid outage, irrespective of whether the inverter is external or internal (in the case of PW3).
See the text in this link: www.tesla.com/powerwall
"When an outage occurs, Powerwall will help keep your solar system running or, if using grid power, will transition your home to stored energy instantly."
Hi Gary, what would be needed to run an average UK home plus an EV with a little extra in reserve that could run the home & car for all or most of the year off grid or as much as possible.
That's a tricky question to answer as it depends on other factors too, like your monthly generation and typical usage...
What are the incentives for Solar and battery storage in the UK? Is the "Agrivoltaics" approach popular?
There's not much in the way of incentives at present, other than a tax exemption (and 0% loans in Scotland for homeowners). It's such a shame, because the EU is offering a range of incentives...
If we assume the installation cost is £750, a PW3 then costs £7000. At 37.8 MWh total throughout (warranty spec) that's £0.19 per kWh plus the amortised cost of the PV array used to charge the battery, let's say £0.29 all up. How does that compete with grid kWh charges?
A fair point. And I’d argue that if a financial return is your primary concern, there are other solutions out there that are better for that. Battery prices will continue to fall over time though and ROI cases will be made.
I am an installer and it won’t reduce the costs as they guys are there anyway. Even if it takes 2-3 hours they would need to be able to do 2 installs in the day so they need to be close together otherwise you can’t. I must admit using it as a UPS has its issues. I have doubts that’s the right way.
That's interesting to hear - thanks for sharing!
Any idea if Powerwall 3 UPS functionality is of the online or offline type? Offline UPSes are characterized by having to engage a relay to connect their inverter to power the loads hooked up to the UPS. This is usually noticeable as a "blip" in the power supply when the switchover occurs, which may cause lights to blink, and worse, electronic devices to crash, and/or restart, and as our lives are becoming more and more digital it is inconvenient if the wifi access point, networking router, fiber gateway etc go down right when you might need to be notified that a power outage is occurring.
Also, it's not good in general for a computer to suddenly lose power, as this may lead to data loss and also data storage device file system corruption and so on. Therefore online UPSes are much preferred, where the inverter is constantly engaged and re-transforming incoming power (this also helps to clean up voltage swings, AC frequency dips and so on btw.)
Yeah, the Powerwalls are not UPS, but EPS... You could always add your own UPS in line to avoid such issues...
You said that the string inverter must be disabled to use micro inverters but I have read that you can use them together, 7.68kw of AC and 20kw of DC. Tricky to find official info whether this is true or not.
Hi Andy, now there are lots of complications running two inverters at the same time, linked to the same battery, so I wouldn't imagine that would be possible, but maybe someone else will know...
I am looking jealously at upgrading to PW2 or PW3, but being an early adopter with a PW1, I’m stuck. It’s incompatible and there is nowhere to take/sell a secondhand PW1. Only option seems to be to stick with a PW1 or convert it into a garden table.
Yeah, this is a perennial problem with buying initial release products I'm afraid... I'd buy a PW3 and store the PW1 for a decade or two - could be worth a lot of money by then...
I was at the Intersolar in Munich and talked to Tesla technicians about PW3.
1. among other things, the AC battery is not yet available and expensive in Germany. Prices are only announced by the installer.
2. if you have a PW3(1) with 3 MPP string and add another PW3(2) with MPP, the PW3(2) must also be supplied with PV power. In other words, lay new cables and connect them to the MPP string. Otherwise it will not charge! This is a major problem, as the installed solar modules are usually connected to the PW3(1).
Conclusion: PW3(1) cannot supply PW3(2) with power!
PW3(2) needs its own PV modules and possibly new cabling.
In my opinion, this is a negative point when it comes to expansion.
you wouldn't connect a second PW3, you'd connect a DC expansion though.
I'll try to get some more information on this. The most obvious solution for that requirement is to add a DC Expansion instead of another PW3, I guess...
@@GaryDoesSolar yes and no :-). With one PW3 you get 11,5kW output. With the 2. PW3 you want and get 23kW output. If 23kW is needed (or more) you have to make a plan B.
@@smartLooser Ok, let me do a bit of digging around that then - it does seem a bit of a restriction... Thanks for highlighting! 👍
How much is the Power Input from Solar for each PW3? And what is the Peak Solar for the storage?
May be you install 15kW on the roof. What would happens with that energy…
a. empty 13,5 kWh storage
b. 80% of 13,5 kWh full
c. 100% full
Question: the house needs 16kW, can one PW3 delivers it?
I have 3 PW2 at home: this system delivers 12,9kW plus all 6kW solar.
it would be great to get your thoughts on Tesla's Autobidder, and that might impact users' payback times
Ah, I don't know what this is! Do you have a link?
As long the Powerwall does not support 3phases its unusable as backup. Here in Switzerland alls houses are connected with 3 phases to the grid.
Hi Terence, that's understandable - and hopefully that capability will be added early next year...
Have you seen the Sigen Energy battery and home backup system?
No, sorry. Why?
With the built-in inverter does that allow the Powerwall to be charged directly from a DC bypass of sorts, more efficiently, and then the inverter just does its job on the power going to the home? Or is it still going DC->AC->DC for the battery?
With the built-in inverter enabled, PW3 behaves like a DC Coupled battery.
Keen to know what Tesla offers for dynamic energy prices (hourly changing rates, EPEX). Does it support algorithms to charge in cheap or negative prices?
What part of the world are you in? I know Tesla Electric already operates in the US, and they're also coming to the UK next year. Worth taking a look at their website to see if your location is/will be covered... You can then look at their tariffs...
The shipping container my new Powerwall 3 arrived in last week had Lithium-Ion warning labels on the outside. An indication of battery chemistry?
Great that your Powerwall 3 is on its way. Now, the lithium-ion label alone is not an indication unfortunately, as both NMC and LFP are variants of lithium-ion. I think you can be confident from what everyone is saying though, that your battery will be LFP.
Does it have an open API so that you can monitor and control the battery for us who are on energy providers that are not supported?
Does it support 3-phase systems?
I don't know about how open the API is, but Tesla has certainly opened it to selected energy providers. I suspect it will be made available to consumers in time. Regarding 3-phase support, I understand this is coming early next year.
Gary what are your thoughts on the Fogstar rack mounted 30kWhr battery available for just under 6000 pounds?
I’ve heard about this but don’t know much about the reliability. I’d love to hear feedback from anyone who has this setup 👍🏻
The big question is can you install one Power Wall 3 and then get a less expensive solution for the coupled DC?
My understanding is that the DC Expansion packs are $1,000 cheaper
Is the concept of "Community Solar" popular in the UK? Are Tesla Powerwall batteries installed either outside or in garages in the UK?
I'd need to look more deeply into community solar to answer that, but to answer your second question, Tesla batteries are typically installed in garages or outside in the UK - only occasionally are they installed inside the home itself, as far as I'm aware.
In the US Tesla has a special procing for some states - PW 3 plus Span Electric Panel for load management for $US 10,500. Would you recommend this combination or does PW3 have load shedding, so Span is not necessary? Span panel list price is $US 3,500 by itself. As a second question, could you use DC optimizers for each panel instead of micro inverters? If so that would seem more cost and energy efficient
The Span would still be necessary, but apparently they integrate together so it can know it's on battery power.
The PW3 doesn't do load shedding but supposedly the Gateway 3 will be able to do some of that. I'm in California and have a small Enphase 10 panel system and 27 panel system using a SolarEdge inverter. I'm getting two PW3s with the backup switch and they are going to remove all the other inverters, and optimizers, and connect the strings to the PW3s. I'll lose per panel monitoring but I've not had a panel failure in the past. I'll have a much simpler combined system. I have had microinverter and regular inverter failures. My solaredge inverter failed twice in 5 years. I will manage the loads during outages by just turning stuff off.
@@nicksgarage2 thanks very helpful. Being in CA you could get the span panel and pw3 combo deal for 10,500. Also Tesla coming out with just a battery add on which will be cheaper than a second pw3 if you don't need the extra output
@@Tom-hb1no I was originally going to get the span panel but the expense didn't seem worth it since I didn't need a critical loads panel. My house is already automated though other smart home systems. The span panel is appealing to me but the installed cost is pretty high, even with the $1300 discount.
Great to see others commenting here to answer your question on the span panel. Regarding optimisers, yes you can use them with PW3.
very often the main reason to purchase a battery is to save on energy cost, so cost of the "premium" product, however good is quite counterproductive.
That's true. If financial return is the primary factor, then there are far better solutions than the PW3. For example, I came across this video the other day, which is the cheapest approach I've seen to date: czcams.com/video/aH5Y_gJXOsI/video.htmlsi=OPcWWytAx3a3OsNy
Will effect house insurance with the fire risk?
It depends on your insurance provider. In the UK many insurance providers do not see the need to increase premiums.
What is the difference in price with dc expansion. I was wanting to use tesla powerwall completely off grid. However if octopus can control the system, then would a grid feed allow octopus to charge batteries when electricity is free occasionally? Assuming solar array large enough to charge array in the meantime?
From what I've heard, DCX is at least $1,000 less. In terms of Octopus controlling the PW3, it would be the same control as with other battery manufacturers, like my own GivEnergy system - and for those, I believe Octopus would try to charge batteries when the wholesale price is low (e.g. free or negative).
Perfect, thanks Gary. Love the channel. Top vids
Could you do a compare to Anker SOLIX X1 Battery Storage System?
I might if I get time - I've got 9 videos to finish first though. Worth watching Artisan Electric's video on the X1 here: czcams.com/video/gWUqrfZjfCs/video.htmlsi=UKnXusJJ8fWdvF6r
@@GaryDoesSolar Thanks Gary. I have watched Artisans video. I think the Anker looks more attractive but wondered how it compares with the Tesla on a technical level. These are quite large investments to consider.
@@ilit5472 So, on my channel, I don't generally talk about brand new products to market as they don't yet have any kind of track record They might look good and tick lots of boxes, but perform poorly in the market. I make an exception if those products appear to be truly ground-breaking and/or are from manufacturers with a strong quality record. Let's see how Anker fares... they could well end up being a great competitor to Tesla and other major brands!
If inverters fail does the Power wall fail?
What about DC compatibility units on each panel?
That I'm not sure about. We may need to wait for real-world feedback...
Gary, would you have bought a PW3 given the choice?
Yes, I would have. Tesla make solid products that just work. I’d pay extra for that 👍🏻
Hi Gary, how much power it will typically consume when it is idle or does nothing ? Please confirm
You'd need to check the data sheets for that answer, I'm afraid.
I am in Australia and need to install a complete new solar system. My home has 3-phased power and 2x 3-phases air-conditioner unit. And I want to provide 4-6 hr to one of the air-cond unit. I also want to install a 3-phased EV wall box. Can the Power Walll 3 support 3-phase power supply ?
PW3 will support 3-phase early next year.
With Powerwall 3 is there a heater that kicks in to heat the unit when temperatures drop below minus -4 Fahrenheit?
I don’t think there is a dedicated heater but of course the cells, when exercised, generate heat.
Gary Just got myself a id buzz on the car settings it saying I can do bi-directional charging got myself givenergy set up, van saying it let's me use 4000kw of battery. If that works I belive on the right octopus tariff I could make 1-2k selling the electric?
Do you know anything about this? Cheers for your time.
I'm going to looking into V2G very soon and so should have some answers on this...
@@GaryDoesSolar thank you, van saying it gives 4000 hour of bi directional at a max of 10000kw after that you can't use the van battery. I'm paying £300 a month for a 2 year lease, that would definitely of set a nice chunk of money 🤑💰💵
@@GaryDoesSolar apparently all the vw ID range with 77kw batterys offer this
Hopefully getting a givenergy all in one this year. It's 6kw max discharge rate is right in the sweet spot for us. The power wall is the only other product I would consider changing to, but can't justify the cost of this extra performance which would ne unutilised
Yeah, the price of GivEnergy products is very good, and my own GivEnergy setup has performed flawlessly for over a year now :-)
Can the Powerwall 3 be solar charged when the grid is down?
Yes, because it islands the property from the grid 👍🏻
What i dont understand is why the German version only states 4.6kw output. Why is this different? Perhaps it has to do with max output on one phase systems? How would you connect a TPW in a 3 phase system -does it require 3 TPWs?
In Germany, there might be legislation around that. Perhaps my German viewers will know more...
You can have one or more Powerwalls on each phase, and full 3-phase support is expected next year.
Any upcoming support for 3 Phase ?
Yes, 3-phase support is planned for 2025 👍🏻
High Gary, you quote a price of £5500 for the Powerwall 3 and £800 for the Backup Gateway. I can’t find any company selling anywhere near that price. Which companies should I be contacting?
Remember there's the installation cost as well. Worth contacting Spirit Energy, who I mention in the video. Here are their prices: www.spiritenergy.co.uk/tesla-power-wall-3
How can the Tesla Powerwall 3 benefit from DFS events in the UK?
Hi Robert, I'm expecting Octopus to soon incorporate DFS into their Intelligent tariffs, and so with Tesla products being integrated into those same tariffs, they'll get DFS management automatically.
In the meantime, you'll be able to manually program your PW3, like this: czcams.com/video/VrKSKPrdhak/video.html
Does it have output to grid to be switched off or limited to 5kw? My electric company wont let me export more than 5kw. I also would like to install on my sheds and granny flat that would be independent and only pull from the grid when batteries run out. My fronius has to be connected to grid and will not operate unless it is connected to the grid. That does defeat my purpose of using the inverter. I like to use a automatic switch to switch to grid when the solar and batteries are down.
I believe the PW3 can be instructed only to export up to a certain level, to meet energy company stipulations. Your installer will advise on that and also the other questions you raised. What's good about the Powerwall is that in a power outage, because it automatically islands itself from the gird, your solar panels can continue to generate power to run your home, with excess being stored in the battery.
Wouldn’t touch a musk product, however good some say it is!
Reasons?
@snowman2970 It’s funny your draw the line at Musk, but that doesn’t stop you from purchasing Chinese products daily. So I guess you are saying you agree more with Chinese CEOs than Musk… I’m willing to bet you can’t even name the CEOs of the car brands you own…nor do you know their political alignment..
@@Defender_Tom I Don’t own any Chinese cars? I used to respect him at first, however, Musk has proven himself to be a dislikable , anti democratic pro Putin and Trump sympathiser if not a supporter. In my view he is just another authoritarian oligarch and not someone who deserves a penny of my hard earned money.
What size solar system for 1 powerwall? I have a 12.4kw system and I was told I need 3 powerwalls.
My understanding is that one PW3 can serve up to 20kWp of arrays.
How can you actually buy a power wall though? Their website only seems to offer for a random installer to contact you. I just want one on a pallet!
Ah, I'm not sure how you can do that, actually. I think Tesla are requiring PW3 installers to be accredited by them (at the moment at least, anyway)...
If I use 16,000 kWh annually, will a 14kw producing 22,000kw annually and one power wall 3 be enough so I can run my home off the battery at night? I live in Arizona where temperatures reach 115f during the summer.
Thanks for your question. Now, there are more factors at play here in order to provide an accurate answer, including what tariff you're on and your typical daily energy usage profile. It's best to speak to an installer who can guide you...
Ya but you can't manage them locally. There appears to be no local API to alow charging and discharging on command, making this battery unsuitable for many. Yes they support VPPs like octopus and amber but I want a system that manages my hot water, pool pump, aircon, ev charging etc. and battery in sync with wholesale tariffs from amber. Only way to do that is with something like Home Assistant and EMHASS as far as I know and that requires a local battery API.
I think you can now: www.pv-magazine.com/2024/01/08/tesla-releases-api-for-solar-powerwall-systems-ev-chargers/
The Tesla Powerwall 3 is so good that it can save you almost enough money, so that you can buy another one when the battery has degraded over time and use.
Yeah, sounds good!
PW2 is 15 kWh, 13.5 usable. Is it the same for PW3?
Yes, it'll likely be the same.
I have heard the Powerwall 3 will not support 3 phase power. Not mentioned in this video.
YET.
Likely just a software update later on.
that’s what I am waiting on!
3-phase support for Powerwall 3 is coming next year according to Tesla 👍🏻
Hi Gary, can you please tell me why on the Tesla App you can only add your tariff in pounds to two decimal points? My off peak tariff is 8.5p but I can only put in £0.08. This is now giving me inaccurate data. Many thanks, Jenny
Hi Jenny, thanks for your question. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that. Worth joining a Tesla online forum and asking the question there...
Thanks Gary.
You can’t get around it i have faced the same issue but rather than put .075p put in .08p which means i over estimate my costs rather than underestimate. As it happens Octopus have dropped my OI Go to 0.07p anyway now so that sorts that out.
Any sense as to what ‘average’ installation costs are likely to be? Another £3k-4k?
8k installed best I’ve seen so far. Plus g99 application @ about 600
Depends on the competence of the installer- for just a retrofit PW3 with no PV it shouldn’t be more than a day’s work so in my mind similar to that of a EV charger if not less 🤷♂️
Spirit Energy (who I mentioned in the video) is offering PW3 including installation for just under £8,000: www.spiritenergy.co.uk/tesla-power-wall-3
Gosh, that’s fairly compelling … thanks Gary!
Backup is not seamless in a thunderstorm - power spikes can still trip the Gateway 2. Apart from that, power cuts? What power cuts!
Good point - I guess for those with appliances that absolutely have to remain on, there’s always UPS options for those appliances 👍🏻
Gary I responded to your earlier video. I must say if you look at the technical specs the continuous output power is only 4,5 kW in Germany and EU . I don’t think the claim of 11kW is correct
Ah, now I just checked the UK specification and it's >11kW. See near the bottom of this link: www.tesla.com/en_gb/powerwall
@@GaryDoesSolar i see it now in UK site but its different to the US Site - in UK as well its subject to local regulations; but on the german site here is whats provided
Max. kontinuierliche Entladeleistung 4,6 kW AC
Max. kontinuierliche Ladeleistung 4,6 kW AC & 5 kW DC
@@adityakomatil Ah ok, so whilst the PW3 is capable of such an output, it seems certain countries have policies that limit the use of that. Thanks for raising! Pity, nothing is straight-forward, eh?
Is the Three Phase solution from Tesla simply "buy three of them", one for each phase? Assuming that is still only one Gateway...
Today, yes - but proper 3-phase solution coming next year 👍🏻
Isn’t this very similar to the GivEnergy 13.5kw all in one?
Yes but with software that just works
Yes, very similar 👍🏻