Loading 9mm +P with Speer Gold Dots - pt 1 - Powder Selection
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Loading 9mm +P with Speer Gold Dots - pt 1 - Powder Selection
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with CZcams content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
I like your teaching, you don't just tell us what is good or bad for particular applications, rather you bring us to understanding of how they all work before you show us the right answer. That's the best way to teach, and I enjoy learning from you.
Just wanted to say thank you I had a very rough day and sizing 9mm watching this really took me away. Thanks bro
Gold Dot Bullets and CCI primers…match made in heaven. The quality control of Speer Gold Dot loaded duty ammunition is absolutely second to none!
My favorite powder for high velocity 9mms is the discontinued HS-7. A very old Speer manual says 8.9 grains behind a 124 grain gold dot. This is a standard pressure load according to that book. I use 8.8 grains and average 1290 from my Glock 19 with very good (not the best however) accuracy but its plenty within acceptable limits. HS-7 is also my favorite 20 gauge powder so when I found out it was discounted, I bought all I could find in my area which was about 12 pounds. I've tried a good number of the powders you show in this video. The ones that got the highest velocity after HS-7 was Blue Dot then Power Pistol. So as long as the accuracy is acceptable, I'd recommend them.
GREAT series on reloading. Started going through your 300 AAC videos and back tracked to here. I went through this same process about 2 years ago and ended up on AA#7 @ 9.1 grains (which just happens to be speers max) and it got me 1274 out of my G19. ALSO I tested for muzzle flash in the dark. By far #7 gave the smallest flash profile at night. So it ended up getting the nod. Thanks for the GREAT videos!
@DR Dan fairly certain he's using Speer GD 147gr JHP
Thank you Johnny. The best and most informative on +P data. And powder analysis. Keep up the good work.
I started pushing the envelope back in 2012 when I started making home rolled carry ammo. I could find components but no factory ammo. I'm retired LEO and carrying hand loaded ammo is a major "No-No". Now I can do what I want and I like my home made better. I only use new brass for it. I have Bar-Sto barrels in my guns so less of a problem with the unsupported chamber issue. I don't have gel test media so vids of hand loads with it and multiple powders are greatly appreciated. Especially gold dots.
I just found this! I ran similar tests in the 90's and in 2016. In my tests, WSF was the clear winner. shame you didn't test it.
I like WSF a lot but it burns a little dirty, of course all pistol powders tend to be messy.
I used to load 9mm with WSF back in the 90’s , it’s a very good powder for 9mm. I probably still have some of those old rounds stored away somewhere.
I've never been able to limit myself to 2 round tests. More rounds means more components and more time but also more shooting. That's what I'm doing it for!
I've been using Blue Dot for my 9mm +P loads since 1993. My load consists of 124 XTP JHP bullets, 8.3 gr. of Blue Dot, Winchester cases, and CCI 500 primers. Blue Dot an O.K. powder for that load. It produces an average velocity of 1,230 +/- 28 f.p.s. when shot from my Glock 19. However, it tends to burn dirty in that it leaves more carbon residue and partially burnt powder than most other powders, and it produces more muzzle flash than most other powder. Where Blue Dot really shines is when that round is used in a long-barrel firearm. Shot from my 16.5 inch barrel KelTech Sub-2000, the same load has an average velocity of 1,652 +/- 15 f.p.s.
Just watching this series... it's funny you excluded BE86. I've found out it's the best performing powder I've tried in 9mm. In fact it's been in use for something like 30+ years and was just released as a powder for sale just a few years ago.
I used “Power Pistol” on my plus P loads and my bullet was as yours the Speer 124 gr. And my charge actually exceeded max by .4 grs. & starling brass.
+ p is 7% above standard pressure loads and +p+ 12 % above standard pressure loads. I suspect reading a few reloading books about this and working up.
i would suggest getting an after market barrel with hot loads in the glock. also a SS guide rod and heavy spring. not so much in the 9 but 40 ,45 ,10mm. factory barrels are very loose and do not support the case very well. if not just for safety , it will extend the life of your brass. i load my g20 with 'loudshot' 180 hst/xtp@1400 with a 6 in kkm barrel. make a great 'woods gun'. love your videos. saves me time when trying new stuff.
Great video and great information
Back from the future...Yes, this is back from 2023. Some of the 9mm Luger chambers in some of the barrels of a major mfg of semi-auto pistols are different lengths to the start of lands. Shame on them for QC failure. DO NOT forget the "plunk test" on your reloads with the barrel you are going to shoot with. Otherwise, you could jam your reload bullet into the rifling start before firing. This is not good. If you are solving the "plunk test" problem by moving the bullet back into the case (encroaching on useable chamber space) be sure and check the resulting start pressure rise and peak pressure. Quickload is good for this check. Please add this to Johnny's safety lecture.
Speer’s velocity is marked @ 1200 FPS but chronoed about 1140 to 1160 FPS. The 1200 just wasn’t there.
Johnny, I have done as you did however through the years. I'm not going to spoil Your fun though. one thing is for certain is that you are in the Zone so to speak. also there is no reason to apologize for having a Two minute Safety brief when using Maximum or near Maximum +p loads. I felt that was very Responsible of you. One thing I would have brought to the table is the thing about unsupported chambers at the bottom of the web of the case, People have noted that they have had issues with brass that has been repeatedly fired using near maximum loads in Glock and other manufactures of Barrels (I.E) Having Blow outs and case ruptures. Anyway dude Have fun and Good useable Information so far Man. Dave.
I've always wanted to get some 135 gr critical duty bullets loaded to at least 20% over pressure. The regular Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P ammo has very good performance and I believe the strong bullet construction could benefit from higher velocity, but the Hornady load seems very mild for a heavier bullet weight and +P load.
If you feel the need to approach an unsafe pressure level, you do not need more powder. You need another caliber. Maybe .357 Sig is for you. It has about the same working pressure as .357 magnum.
I have seen similar results with +p in shorter barrels. Repeat in a Glock 34 or 17L if you can put your hands on either.
The factory gold dot 124gr +p is 6.7gr aa#5 at 1.120". Another one to duplicate it is 6.3gr BE-86 at 1.120"
If you want to push it, you can duplicate the Underwood +p+ load at 1300fps with 6.4gr autocomp and an overall length of 1.113". And that is in fact their load charge for that cartridge 🤷🏼♂️
Thanks, I've got those except BE-86 :)
As far as duplicating "the Underwood +P+ load" is concerned, there is a 124gr load, but it is with the Nosler bullet ( as is their 115gr +P+ offering)... As far as any +P+ loading is concerned, IMHO the actual bullet used DOES make a difference as DOES the OAL: if we are that close to MAXIMUM pressure levels we need to be very concerned about these issues.
Now, at normal 9mm pressures almost any 124gr JHP load data will safely work: data for XTPs, GDHPs, Nosler Sporting Bullets, Sierra & SIG JHPs, etc. is basically interchangeable. Always a good idea to work up new loads but 4.6gr Bullseye isn't going to blow up a modern 9mm.
@@NormanPOlt they have one with the gold dot as well, or did. It was 6.4gr of autocomp.
They had a couple different bullet offerings in the +p+ line. I haven't checked recently so don't know if they're not offering it anymore.
There was significant work and documentation done on this by a group of folks.
The rest of your comment, I tend to agree with. Xtp might be the odd one out in that equation just because they get seated deeper. But yes one should start low and work up. 4.5gr bullseye is my plinking load lol. Very accurate as well.
@@ohioshootingandtesting8984 Actually, I use about that amount of Bullseye for almost everything from 115 through 130gr in 9mm: I'll typically just adjust the OAL depending upon the bullet design, attempting to have approximately close to the same available case volume... Hollow or concave bases can make a difference, but I don't feel it is critical with that amount of powder. What kind of fps do you anticipate with your plinking/range/practice loads?
I only got to the part in your video where you say that nobody publishes +p load data. Western Powders publishes their "Reloading & Load Data Guide for all of the various powders that they manufacture. It shows both regular and +p load recipes for a very wide range of caliber and bullet types.
I have loaded a LOT of gold dots and have see HUGE variations in length of the actual bullet. I have seen a delta of as much .018” and I have come to separate the Bullets into like sizes prior to loading for die adjustment
Interesting selection of powders in Australia there's a lack off choice I like Aliant bullseye in 9mm and 357mag and 45acp havnt used bluedot
Just curious why titegroup would be ruled out when there’s more case capacity to reach the velocity you wanted. Was it because of pressure?
Quickload is a good tool and i like it, but trust it too much, especially in handgun calibers. Qiuckload works with some powders better than with other. The real case volume is a critical factor as well, measure your case volume.
Very true! It's definitely no replacement for normal load development. I like to use it like I did in this video...identifying powders that should work for what I want. Then I generally forget about it and work up the load as usual.
take a look at a old like late 70's or 80's Sierra reloading manual look at the 9 millimeter and a powder herco you will see a 115gr going 1400fps this is a compressed loads I have tried them the pressure seems fine I am shooting in a CZ 75b
I hadn't seen Herco on the shelves for a long time but just saw some a few weeks ago. I almost bought a pound but ended up passing. It's a great powder for this sort of work, from what I've read! Thanks for the tip. I will pick up a pound next time I see it.
Nice selection powder
the least inexpensive way to get a heavy barrel which will handle +p loads is to buy a Glock 22, 23 or 35 and then buy the conversion barrel for 40 S&W to 9MM. You should also change out the extractor and ejector as well as buying heavier recoil springs (Gen 3, Gen 4 are not readily available). I shoot Federal 9BPLE out of my Glock 22L (lonewolf upper) with a 20 lb recoil spring and it shoot very well.
Interesting video i spend most days loading ammunition 9mm 357mag 44magnum 45acp and otheres sw460xvr and testing ammo
Not saying it’s what is happening but I had a issue with some .38+p ammo I made the standard ammo was 400 FPS faster than my +p ammo turned out the increased powder was burning too slowly to be burned in the barrel and most of the powder was getting burnt after the bullet left the barrel. I swapped to a faster powder and it solved my problem. Also those .38+p ammo was significantly faster in my 6” .357 than the snubby I was originally reloading for which confirmed it was a barrel length issue and powder burn rate issue
Dude.. I'm envious of you process, I wish we had this sort of information 30 years ago. Computers are a common thing nowadays, However back then it was real time firing that was the tell all, Still is for the most part. anyway what I was thinking is it would be interesting to see what the Beretta with it's longer Barrel would do for velocity by way of comparison to the Glock pistols. seems that your 92S would be up to the task, It's still a fine pistol in it's right It has all of what it needs in the end for good performance. Dave.
I might pull out the Beretta in the end and see what it does. Should be pretty darn hot, I'd think.
Johnny's Reloading Bench You won't hurt it I would think, AA#7 burns too slow, I get some unburnt powder when I use it. seems the stuff is HS-6. I'm going to do some 9MM on my channel and use just that for the segment. Dave.
Just as a footnote. I need to get a box big enough to house my PID controller, the (TA9-SNR) Its the bigger display Model so ageing Eyes can read it. when I get things rolling I will do as you suggested and do a comparison to my RCBS Pro Melt furnace. I still believe that having a PID makes all the difference in the world to the Lee unit. It is one upgrade everyone should do if they own a Lee furnace. You did a outstanding job on that instruction video dude. Dave.
Love your videos. Keep up the good work!
Love all your videos.
There is a useful website called NATO reloading for both 9 x19 and 5.56 x 45mm. Several of the powders he tests in complete darkness while video'd.
Quick Load is incorrect regarding Titegroup and 125 grain bullets. It chronographs nearly 1250 fps from a 4.5 inch barrel and is the max load in the Hodgdon manual. It's a hot load.
You should have taken apart one of each and gave it an inspection.
I've got some universal have you ever tried that with 9mm +p
Hs-6 would be a good +p powder with lee book for 115 gr 6.7 gn
Thanks!
Yip! That's about what I found. I bought some of their ammo made for short barreled guns saying velocity's would be higher with that ammo. Their standard ammo shot faster than the +P short barreled ammo did????
You make some cool videos! I really like Hodgdon longshot for 40 s&w. Does anyone else like the smell of cfe 223?
So did you ever get around to mentioning which chronograph you're using? How far from the muzzle it's placed? Time of day you're using it in direct sunlight? Cause I can tell you; none of them work optimally when the sun is less than 45 degrees above the horizon or less than 45 degrees before dusk.
At USPSA people always leave loaded ammo on the ground, and the owner of the range says anything I pick up after the match is over is mine to keep. Also: DO NOT TRY WHAT I DID. I ended up shooting a bunch of 9mm major out of my Star BM and found out that somehow it will run fine with 9mm Major, +p+, and +p loadings. I do not condone or suggest doing this, as this is likely anecdotal. I figured my sharing would be interesting to some people though.
What happened with your basic 9mm reloading you did with the hand press? I watched them and bought all my equipment to reload. I really enjoyed watching them videos you made.
Where are you from? Why do you let your hands do so much of the talking?
Great stuff enjoyed
WHAT ABOUT ACCURACY??????? You can move a bullet down the barrel as fast as you want, But is it accurate and at what range??? I am going to use 5.1gr. of unique under a 124gr. H.P. for my loads.
DON CROCKER it’s not a blunderbuss or a smooth bore musket. Also not taking 100 yard shots.
Dude, you forgot Vithavouri powder. Lower flash, same velocity, and the power factor.
You're basing your OACLs based on SPEER's? 1.120" +/- which is a length that they determined to work for all commonly known pistols. Do you know the best OACL for your G19? Or any other 9mm pistol? Help is good as long as you're part of the solution and not part of then problem.
I’m going to skip on this safety talk.. let’s go bro you’re great. Let them weed themselves on. Poyb!
Could you have accidently put the +P rounds back in the standard box?
Sierra book has 9mm +p load data. 👌
Have a ? that you or another may help me with... where can ya find data/recipe for 9mm +p+ loads? Same for 38spl cases that are marked with the +p+ stamp. Have both Lyman and Lee books, but only +p is listed and limited at best. Thanks, Rick H
Help me out with "case fill". If it is over 100%, how could it be a viable choice at all? Also, why couldn't you just bump up the charge on Titegroup and HP-38 to get the velocity up since the case fill is only at 70 and 84% respectively? What am I not getting?
Pressure. DO NOT FUCKING DO THIS. YOU WILL BLOW YOUR GUN UP. TITE GROUP TO THE BRIM IS A NO FUCKING NO.
I have the original Ruger 9mm carbine ( blow back )with a 16 inch barrel. The cambers are beefy. What is the maximum powder charge I can stuff in a standard length case. Are there shorter bullets I could use? Would this shorter billets allow more volume in the case for powder?
Without using a chart, could you say that most + P loads are between 10 to 15% more powder by weight than the standard load?
I am just wanting an estimate. Nothing concrete.
Unique and power pistol. If you could increase length just a smidgen looks to be good. what do I know. Never loaded b4, here tryin to learn something
Hey what do ya know I am learning somethin lol
I know I'm 5 years late on this one but it's not completely surprising that the "marketing" is mostly bull shiz on a product(regarding the +P being slower than regular)...i remember watching a report on different coffees from different places and there was 1 or 2 places or types of coffee or whatever it was where the decaf version had more caffeine in it than the regular coffee. And i've seen other things similar to that too.
Greetings from NY, Johnny. Why didn’t you use Hodgdon HP-38?
Not very useful to me with BE-86 and CFE Pistol taken out. BE-86 is one of the top 3 powders for +P 9mm and 10mm Auto loads.
While I still find this very useful and love all of Johnnys videos when I came back to rewatch this I just cringed as he kept removing the best powders for this application in the very beginning. From what I've read BE-86, CFE Pistol, and WSF are some of the best along with Silhouette which he kept. It would be great for him to do a followup on some 9mm + P loads instead of all rifle data like he's done the past few years.
Also some others to check out would be N330, N340, N350, 3N37, 3N38 etc. I believe for a softer load N330 may be one of the best choices that can still hit +P velocity but never got around to purchasing any before the powder crash. BE-86 seems a bit snappy, and so far WSF is a favorite of mine from the initial list.
For me a lower flash powder that's fairly clean with the least recoil impulse would be best for +P defensive loads. For this purpose my choices are WSF and N330 but imagine there are others that work as well if it were tested.
@@Burris19D When I wrote that comment, I didn't have and had yet to try a couple other powders that I would really like to see him work with. Those powders are Alliant Power Pistol and Winchester 572.
@@johncashwell1024 The Power Pistol is a good powder but very flashy compared to many others if using for defense or night shooting, also seems a little snappier then others in the recoil impulse. BE-86 is very similar but with less flash. Win 572 looked very interesting when I researched them last. True Blue also gets a lot of praise. But I still think my top choices are WSF and VV N330 if it's for 9mm and they are available. CFE Pistol would be a decent runner up as well since it's likely more available in some areas.
@@Burris19D For my 124grn FMJ NATO duplication loads CFE Pistol and Winchester 572 have both made me happy. I bought the Power Pistol for 124, 125 and 130 grain hv loads exclusively for my Colt 9mm SMG. Edit> and the 572 is great for 115 grain Sierra/Sig V-Crown self defense loads. I load for my Sig P365 and it easily duplicates the Sig 365 factory loads plus it has the flash suppressor added.
Also, I lengthened my COAL to 1.122, a marginal lengthening
I heard you don’t supposed to reload flocks. Is this correct?
Don't really get why Bullseye was not recommended. You are using Quickload but you don't accept the results for Bullseye. Is it you don't believe the velocity? What loads do you use Bullseye? Thanks
Bullseye is one of the greatest powders ever made. It has won more pistol matches than the rest of these powders combined, I'd say! It is a great choice for just about any application EXCEPT the one in this video, which is super high velocity. It just burns too fast.
You're exactly correct...I don't believe the velocity that QuickLoad predicted for Bullseye. In the next video you'll see that quite a few of the powders I chose did not match the velocity that QuickLoad predicts. QuickLoad is an amazing tool but I always try to reinforce what it tells me with published data from other sources. Its Bullseye prediction is a perfect example. All of the other data sources indicate that Bullseye would top out around 1100, and that makes sense given its position on the burn rate chart, so I called BS on what QuickLoad said. Hope that makes sense!
+1 for Blue Dot
What happened to the next video?
Just load to max and be happy
Get on with it damn!!
I have been playing around with Longshot lately in 44. I'm looking forward to see what you do with it in 9. Don't - I repeat.. Don't blow your face off, ok! Lol.
Blowing my face off would make for a pretty cool video. Would probably get me more subs.
I'm new to reloading, have the 50th anniversary Lee kit. I have titegroup powder and 115gr Hornady HAP bullets. I can not find load data for this anywhere ( everyone says use the same load data as the Hornady XTP, but I've seen alot against that as well ) The pistol I'm using is a Taurus G2C. Im not trying to load +p ( although I shoot alot of +p out of my g2c but not reloads ) anyways, any input you might have would be great. Thanks for the awesome vids.
Riekki Kriegsgott use the XTP load data and your good to go!
@@robertslabaugh6096 yeah thanks, I have the 10th edition Hornady book since this post and have been loading flawlessly even with steel case! It's been a blast lol thanks regardless for a reply 😎👌
Thanks for your hard work, but over 90 minutes in your 3-part series to tell us to use 6.5 grains of Power Pistol? A little slow and long…
I don't think your giving proper consideration to the thought processes to his showing how he came to that conclusion. With this you can get some tips on how to chose powders for a particular application, how to test and refine test to get what your looking for. If he had just said 6.5 grains of Power Pistol that would have been of no value at all to me.
how can u get powder if u live in europe?
skip to 17:00 for your answer
Shooting out of carbine, I just fill the 9mm case up and go.
WHAT THE FUCK
Have you found in load data for the Gold Dot for the short barrel pistols?? I'd like to equal the over the counter version.
Surprised that you didn't try Red Dot powder. I've been using that for 9mm for about 20 years.
For the short barrels I would lean toward the faster powders like Unique and Power Pistol. After I work up the loads in this series I will probably shoot some in my Glock 43 with its 3.4" barrel to see what the velocity looks like.
Red Dot burns far too fast for high velocity loading. The things I said about Bullseye, TiteGroup, and HP38 apply to Red Dot. Great powder but not a good choice for this application.
Any comments on autocomp or WW231? I've started loading about 2 years ago for 45acp and that's all I've used. Any recommendations on better powders?
Win231 is the same powder as HP-38. I've used both HP-38 and AutoComp and had success with both in 9mm and 45acp. When you say "better powders", what do you mean? Are you looking for more velocity? Are you looking for more rounds per pound? It all depends. The two you're using are pretty darn good! If you just want to try something new, pick up a pound of Bullseye or TiteGroup.
In .45 ACP I have found that Bullseye is the best. a lot of powders come close, However nothing beats Bullseye in the .45 auto. Dave.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm interested in more velocity. I'm not too worried about how many rounds per pound, as I do it for fun, and not so much the cost (although the low cost does help my shooting habit). I'll give both those powders a try next time I see them at the store! Good loading and good day!
Oooh! Do you have the handgun rail mount for the MagnetoSpeed?!
No, I picked up a Caldwell for pistol testing.
Dang.. the Glock would've looked badass with the bayonet on it!
hahaha I might buy one someday. It would be pretty cool.
That stupid rail cost $25! It should have came with the chronograph without a price increase.
Done any loading of the 147gr Gold Dot?
I almost bought a box of those 147 today.. would've went with 124GD but the retail store I was at only had 115.. so that's what I went with.
Im getting 1350 fps using blue dot 7.7 grains, berrys flat nose hollow base 1.060 O.A.L
R&R same, I’ve had better luck with Blue Dot.
my very first single stage press? which one?
Pick up the Lee Challenger Breech Lock kit. It's cheap and works well. If you decide you don't like reloading, you're not out that much money. If you decide you love reloading and want a better press, the Challenger will more than pay for itself before you're ready to upgrade. There's no need to upgrade for normal reloading, though...it does a good job. Check out my playlists for my Beginner's Guide to Reloading series. I used the Challenger kit in that series.
I chose the lee after seeing your review, I'm very satisfied. Thanks a lot.
Thanks for having my back, FredSpeed. Glad yours is working well for you!
great Video!
Thanks!
Two guys load ammo, one guy says his ammo is "+P HOT" the other guy says his is "+P HOT" but that "+P HOT" is "HOT" compared to what?
The same thing applies to ammo manufacturers because they could all use different lengths of barrels, and different pressure sensing equipment to test their ammo and get different velocities and pressure, just like when you load shotgun shells, just because you have higher pressure does not mean the load is going any faster.
Best powder for Normal 9MM loads ?
I'm a fan of CFE Pistol. 700-X works well, but is TERRIBLE for a powder measure. Not a huge fan of Titegroup.
For my 9mm target loads it's TiteGroup,HP38(Win231same as HP38) and Unique. Powder loads are about middle of min and max of each published Data, CPRN Berry's bullets 115gr./124gr. seated OAL 1.150" Primer CCI # 500 spp or sometimes #550 spp magnum with a slight less powder charge. Very EZ on the gun and shooter and as of 3/2022 costs me $ .20 ea. = $ 10. box of 50.
Too bad they have to put labels on everything do not eat the Tide pods lol
Any thought on the hornady 124 xtp or the 124 hap. I was looking at hodgdon site for load data using 231/hp-38 and it appears way low(2.8-3.3). I loaded with 3.0 gr of 231 @1.069 and they failed to eject, any thoughts
for win231 start at 4.4g, maxes out at around 5.0g
So im trying figure out what bullets to use with 9mm, do you prefer heavy and slow or fast and light???
I prefer right in the middle! 124 grains is just about all I shoot.
I agree. 124 in the gold dot +p is used by all the officers in the NYPD, Las Vegas Metro, and various other police agencies..
There are much better powders out there these days
Dinglebrains Lol
Gold dots are weak. I have thousands of HST bullets. Try to find those again, ever. Its why I bought thousands for a steal of a price.