Crooked Builder Stole ÂŁ50K - What Happened Next?
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 3. 07. 2024
- Roger has a chat with Rajiv, who has had a nightmare experience with a rogue trader who took thousands of pounds from him and another family member and did not deliver the extension job promised, yet another cowboy builder case!
==========================================
#CowboyBuilders #RogueTraders #BadTrades
đ Skill Builder Link Tree: linktr.ee/skillbuilder
đ Tell us what you like: skill-builder.uk/vote
đȘ Ask Skill Builder: skill-builder.uk/send
đŁ Facebook: / skillbuilderchannel
đ· Instagram: / skill_builder
đ As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases
đŹ All videos: czcams.com/users/skillbuilderc...
đ§ We Support Charity Water: www.charitywater.org
⟠Out of respect to our channel sponsors and the wide variety of people who watch our videos, we'll remove comments that do not follow common standards of politeness and decency.
Can't watch this as i get too frustrated. I was a jobbing builder for 15 years and never once took upfront money. I did explain that if there were particular expenses such as ordering steels and the like then the customer would have to pay for them , themselves afterI had done the walk through with the str engineer.. Also I made it fully clear that monies would be expected every Friday I did get stiffed on a couple of jobs to the tune of a couple of thousand...shows there are bad clients as well as bad builders
You sound like the dude I would employ.... There is no excuse for upfront money (other than high priced materials that can be invoiced to site.)
100% Correct
@@cuckingfunt9353 Kind of you, but I left the trade13 years back due to the fact i was beginning to hate the job and all the stress it was causing.Constantly taking the job home with you. The last works I did in July/Aug 2009 I was up at 5:30am...left at 6am, on site at 7 and then sitting in traffic all the way home, for two hours to get back at 8pm . It was too much. I finished the job , moved house to the sticks, built myself a wraparound extension on the house I bought and hung my tools up for good. Never looked back. : )
Those dodgy clients are even worse. It should work both waysm oerosnal guarantees either direction and/split the cost of insurance cover
Agreed, you should take deposit and materials. No more until job is done
We got ripped off by a Lanscaper and then found out a lot of other people have been ripped off by him too. He is still working around our area (Warrington, Cheshire and Merseyside) and his name is Oliver Booth. So if you come across him quoting for any landscape work, please be wary. (Also goes with the name Greenscape Garden Creations). I hope this crooked builder gets his comeuppance soon.
How did he rip you off?
@@LemiKillmister. He Took money for materials, providing fake invoices and not paying the supplier. He is about to get his cummopence though, The CPS are about to prosecute him.
We need to start naming and shaming these crooks! Kevin Elliott from Addlestone, Surrey is another one who did the same thing to us during 2020.
Bury garage conversions Manchester are another absolute scumbag
Court case, naming may be detrimental to him.
Chris , I hope to one day. I'm waiting for my lawyer to agree. She said it was tricky territory to name someone online. Because he can counter sue for loss of business. But that is my point he should not get any business. So I just had (26th Jan) a CPR 35 (expert witness report) and the report will be published. My solicitor will offer him to settle (no chance, because he's trying to dissolve his company and said he was skint) and it goes to court. I will win off course & he will simply go bust. I've run a company for 20+ years... never knocked anyone.Rather the thought of such a thing never came in my mind. I never knew you could knock someone and walk away from it under UK company law.
It's only worth taking them to court if they have the money to pay you back. Most of these crooks spend the money you give them straight away. We tried all course of action to sort this out but no response from Kevin so the best way is to try to make sure they don't con anyone else.
I was a bricklayer by trade, I had a building company and would never dream of ripping anyone off. On the contra, There were plenty of clients that wanted to rip me off. Most builders do a good job in my experience, I get pissed of reading how a few bad apples get us all tared with the same brush. Never pay up front, if they want you to pay for materials you order them and get them delivered. Or let them order them and pay for them when they have been delivered. Always agree a payment schedule, making sure they are owed money. With the final payment only being paid when the job is finished. That way you will both be happy. PS. Any extras, because there will always be extras, should be agreed at the time, and paid for when complete.
I always did a lot more work for the stage of payment that i had reached. I am retired now and live in spain, i used to do the odd job for only friends. For the simple reason to keep my hand in. I got the feeling that even charging next to nothing, they felt i was ripping them off. i do nothing for anyone now, just let them pay the going rate. 10 euros a hour i would charge them, what a mug i was.
Well said mate. Great post - enjoy your retirement!
âŹ10 an hour for a skilled bricklayer, even working at half pace, that's a family/friend price. They'd want to be working for you or be extremely grateful.
Good advice, keep control of the money.
Never work for mates or relatives (unless it's your parents cos that's for free anyway). They never appreciate it. And it spolis the relationship.
Shocking to hear.
This scam builder is the type of person that makes customers suspicious of real quality builders who do their job well and honour their costumers.
Yes, I trust very few tradesmen now. In fact I built my own extension and do all my own work because of a lack of trust and I wanted it all done properly. I have money in the bank to pay the pro's likes of the amazing tradesmen that Rodger often has on his channel, I would have Robin and the boys round to my house to do work any day, but soo many of the guys I watch locally working on houses are monkeys and I have decided I would struggle to identify the good guys at appointment stage.
As I type this our neighbours are having a roof done and the solar guys are back setting the Renusol channels for the panels. The roof leadwork is a mess, the guys ground tile rubble and grit all over the new membrane, they dropped tiles which smashed all over the new roof, slid down and smashed onto the lower roof below, the ridge tiles are all squint and up and down all over the place the list goes on, not to mention they are lazy & they look like slobs.
So not only am I now suspicious, but I just don't call them!
Best tip I can give anyone getting the trades in ..... Don't use anyone that bad mouths the previous trader or guy that did work previously.... This is ALWAYS the sign of someone that is out to fleece you. AVOID AVOID AVOID .
I posted on check a trade and was left with a mess to clear up - now a days its too many cowboys and not enough Indians.
@@peterpeterson9903 so call you're neighbours
Problem is the scam builder knows how to undercut the good builder by enough to seem legitimate. And customers still never learn that old mantra ... If it's too good to be true .......
I donât think youâve done a video on this before? Would be great to go through a number of tips when hiring a tradesman.
These conmen and cowboys are ruining the reputation of good honest workers like you!
Usually, recommendations from people you know who have had work done. Same goes for mechanics. Firms that have been around a long time.
If itâs a limited company, go on companies house (itâs free) and see if they have the company in their name. They should be a director. Check their company history and see how old it is and how many defunct companies they have been directors of before.
Also, in the current climate. Anyone who canât start for 6 months is a positive sign. Anyone who can start straight away is usually not good. Everyone is snowed under.
Only one rule you should ALWAYS stick to....never advance money. Deposit is fine..
paying for materials after they arrive fine.. but NEVER give over large sums of cash...pretty simple
@@JohnSmith-kb5ku Yet all of these things are also used when conning
Been here long enough and heard of people getting scammed big time by people who had a long standing with the builder
Companies House means nothing and in this case being a limited company went against the buyer due to low shares being held by the director
It's a dog eat dog world
The answer is get the work completed in stages and only pay after each stage is completed
It can be a nightmare, I would say make friends with some local trade's folk in the pub or on social media, look at the work they comment on of other people's giving praise (you do see it now and again) or ask them who they would recommend if they themselves can not undertake the work
If you know someone who dose up houses to sell ask them, by that o don't mean the ones who make hmo's or the homes under the Hammer type
Basically be patient
Really sorry to hear this. Makes me so angry that people out there can not only steal from you but also ruin ur home and your peace
Sadly, an all too common scenario. I run a small Roofing business in South Yorkshire and we do not ask for payment until all work is completed to the customers satisfaction., we don't even ask for a deposit because we don't need one. I pay my suppliers promptly, so don't need money upfront, all we ask in return is that our invoice is paid swiftly upon completion (into our business account). Be wary of any tradesman asking for money upfront.....
Thanks for both the SB team and Rajiv for sharing this. Good information to spot some of the tricks out there.
With my extension the sole trader builder ordered the materials from household named trade suppliers and I paid the supplier myself. The builder and contractors were paid on a regular basis so they "could live". Job finished on time.
Clever and logical tactic.
Well that's how it should happen. If you aren't a big firm you need stage payments. Weekly really to pay the boys but the work has to be at the right point for the money. Otherwise you don't pay them. Never advance a builder money.
Iâd never pay the full lump up front.
You canât be giving all that money with no works done đđ a good builder will be paid on completion or stages thatâs how I work I never have any trouble
My heart really goes out to this man. I've had three bad experiences with builders from MyBuilder and Rated People but nothing as atrocious as this man's. These builders play on the fact one doesn't know what needs to be done and what they should and shouldn't do.
Yes I went with My Builders and Rated People and it all has gone belly up,I now am scared of Builders and most Building Projects, They go from being your best friend to making out it is your fault it has all gone wrong I am so fed up now and I am really out money wise
Great video. Couldnât bear to watch it all brought back to many bad memories from similar so called builders Iâve learned the hard way from. Thanks Roger for putting this video out there. Hope it works out for the fella in the video. Iâm now a super skilled but slow jack of most trades as a result.
One of the big lessons to be learnt, never recommend a tradesman until he's finished the job to your satisfaction, this happens all too often
Yeah, that is one naĂŻve move by Rajiv there that he alone has to take responsibility for.
Good chat, plenty of intel, straight to the point. Nice vid.
I'd have heard alarm bells when a builder told me he was "a qualified architect". At the very least, I'd have checked with RIBA that it was true.
What you should always have is a SPECIFICATION OF WORKS which gives minute details of every stage of construction and materials to be used: that will get you realistic quotes and should weed out the wide-boys. Getting your architect to produce an SOW may cost a few hundred more but it will save you time, hassle and - most important - thousands of pounds.
My own extension was built under budget, finished ahead of time and is a superb job.
Yes I would have sniffed him out. Apparently he is at it again with a new company.
as a recommended builder throughout leeds this is so frustrating to hear, im sorry to anyone who falls victim to this but one piece of advise i would say is, pay in stage payments ONCE each stage is complete. We have accounts with building merchants which we pay off monthly we do not need payment for works we have not began apart from a small percentage deposit before any works start for materials which protects us at the very start of the job but after that you only pay after each stage
This is how its done đ
we're exactly the same, we ask for payment after, not before
I've gotten 5 quotes for a small job worth ÂŁ1350ish (concrete base for garage). The cheapest quote was ÂŁ800 and most expensive was ÂŁ1800. One of the contractors wants 30% deposit to secure the job. Is this ok? How do you make sure a contractor is legit for work like this?
@@ookoro I think for a quote that size a 30% deposit is nothing to necessarily be concerned about as I would imagine the materials would be as much if not greater than a few hundred (hard to say without knowing the job) unfortunately you have to use your judgement with people and whenever you can get a recommendation off someone!
@@aDeedADay thanks for coming back to me đ
Would like to see a video on cowboy customers. Builders always get a bad reputation, Bottom line anything that seems to be cheap should have its concerns. Great video love this channel đ
We have talked about cowboy customers and are not afraid to revisit the subject when a builder wants us to put their side of the story.
We must not conflate cowboy builders with cowboy customers. There is no justification for robbing people.
Dealing with trades can be a nightmare.
Trades can say the same about clients... Bad apples in both.
Its a horrible state of affairs, and this country really needs to look at who creates companies and force more liability on the directors and owners. I was subbing for a guy as an electrician, he ended up owing me ÂŁ12k, took him personally to court and it got thrown out. I knew the company had no money though so there was little more I could do. He knew what he was doing as well.
That is such a terrible situation, I hope he can find some resolution to this nightmare he has to deal with, but I am grateful for the experience being shared the builder using his own money to kick it off and then hitting the customer for cash I would have fallen for that for sure!
Best tip I can give anyone getting the trades in ..... Don't use anyone that bad mouths the previous trader or guy that did work previously.... This is ALWAYS the sign of someone that is out to fleece you. AVOID AVOID AVOID
We had a similar problem. We reported a potential fraud to the local police in 2016. The builder was on licence at the time having recently been released early from serving a prison sentence for fraud. The police refused to interview us or investigate. Complaints to the Chief Constable, Police and Crime Commissioner and the IPCC were all rejected. No wonder the police are held in contempt - other than by criminals of course. PS the builder was on Checkertrade with 5 star reviews!
So frustrating to read about your unfortunate experience. Hope these crooks get whatâs coming to them.
@@PaulSmith-pr7pv Yes I am sure they will - visit from the police victim support officer?*****
Good watch đđ» shame about people like that
Thanks for sharingâŠ.. hope they get it sorted
I can't understand why we don't do what the Germans did, back in the 1990's to set up a limited company you had to deposit 50,000DM into a bank account that you couldn't touch, it was a safety net for creditors if you went under. Not sure what the rules are now, but it certainly stops a lot of the fly by nights.
Hi John
The Ltd Companies Act was introduced to encourage enterprise. Before that people ended up in debtors prison where they remained until their debts were paid. Many were not fed until somebody on the outside paid what they owed and many died.
This terrifying prospect discouraged enterprise. Like all legislation it was well meaning and (I think) a good law but like so many good laws it is exploited by bad people.
@@SkillBuilder so the government basically shifted the starvation from the entrepreneur to the client.
In hindsight, Sheildpay may have helped me.. but sadly I was tricked into his charms and technical prowess.
Rajiv who was the builder?
@Macavity "This terrifying prospect discouraged enterprise." So who were these people then driving enterprise, if not entrepreneurs?
As soon as I saw the video title I knew My builder or Check-a-Trade or Rated People would be mentioned somewhere. Just a case of which one ...
And us honest builders that take real pride in our work also get tarnished as rogue builders. All because of these scammers.
Cowboy builders are in every country it ain't just the UK getting shoddy work đ
Very informative video and sorry to Rajiv for the terrible experience and related ÂŁÂŁÂŁ loss that he went through.
Rajiv did the research and positioned himself to the best of his knowledge to protect himself and he still ended up getting knocked.
I've been knocked before on a smaller scale, but that's another story. It's left me with a bad taste in my mouth and a general mistrust of supposed professionals in the building game. On the plus side, I've learned how to do a number of things and saved myself ÂŁÂŁÂŁ's.
@@MKRM27 ...I don't think 52k for a shell & roof build is particularly cheap..yes quotes came in at circa 75K...note the guy is a professional conman.. not only me , others too ! - & FYI - i have got it built and so far the shell has cost me 40K (only roof left) -- paid builder after the work was done and passed by BC. a conman can see an honest person a mile away..... just pay into a builder bank account directly with a JCT contract-- sod paying into a company account.
Itâs sad to hear people having issues. I hope justice gets done.
You can go through the 'local builder', 'good reputation', 'recommendations' route and still come unstuck. My prospective builder (of a two floor extension) gave me names and addresses of several jobs he'd done before, and I went round and spoke to the householders who showed me his work and were well satisfied. A few years later large cracks began to appear as my extension started to subside and my insurance company refused a claim because their investigations showed the footings hadn't been dug to the specified depth. Local Building Control had passed them but Local Authority Building Control can't be held legally responsible for something they miss (and yes, I have checked on that). It cost tens of thousands to have the extension underpinned along with crack stitching.
I went back to the builder who did at least agree to cover the cost of underpinning, but I'm still going to be out-of-pocket over the years in increased buildings insurance costs, and it will affect the value of the house when I come to sell.
So even due diligence doesn't always pay off.
excellent comment. thanks for telling us your story.
@@GavinLawrence747 Best tip I can give anyone getting the trades in ..... Don't use anyone that bad mouths the previous trader or guy that did work previously.... This is ALWAYS the sign of someone that is out to fleece you. AVOID AVOID AVOID
So sorry to hear this, I have had a few bad experiences myself but your case is horrendous.
You can look up limited company records for free online at companies house.
Yep. Look up his name and you'll probably find out all the other companies he's run and shut down. Done that with a Amazon seller who claimed they were in the UK but they were actually in China using a virtual office in London. Also used it at work when we were signing a contract with an energy company where one of the directors had run several energy companies over the years that had all gone bust.
The change the name of the director of the company to get away with it and start a new one
As a self-employed Joiner, I would never ask for upfront payment on labour, maybe part payments as the job goes forward to keep everyone fair and square - Never a payment for work yet to be done.
On materials over an amount I don't see anything wrong with asking even if you have a credit account, you're taking just as much of a gamble on every job as the clients are really.
Been stung by clients in the past that have no intention of paying you but let the job get to a certain point where they can finish it and come up with excuses not to let you finish it and ignore your emails when you send a bill.
Although - what has happened to Rajiv is terrible and I hate this term but "cowboys" like that trader really give proper tradies and craftsmen a bad image and something should really be done about rogue's like that.
That's how I ended up getting a ccj after the customer said its raining short, I will always get upfront money what are chatting about, do I have time chasing customers please pay me. Your money its for your family not building peoples houses, my money stays in my account nit leaving for no one except my kids
@@star-ed7fj lol, why the hell would someone pay you for work not yet complete. Haha
Youâd be a fool not to set up stage payments with a deposit no one in the right mind would wait till the end for the money
Excellent channel. These are the things most lay people need to know about.
As a Bricklayer I have never asked for money up front but I have asked for a progress payment which covers my outlays.And then payment on finish. Any builder that asked for money up front is a cowboy
Can't understand why a decent builder would require money up front, stage payments as you go, yes but not up front.
What about contacting Trading Standards if you haven't already?
Great video! We have been done a few times in the past. Once in a very similar way to the tune of 25k and other builders leaving jobs half completed and never coming back even without owing us money. I am just about to embark on renovation of a 1900s house for my family home and for this reason will be subcontracting out all the work myself, and purchasing all the materials myself.
Feel for you.
Had a roofer recommended by a neighbour. Roofer was really terrible.
One of the jobs was to replace the garage gutters but the downpipe didn't fit into the gully. The chap thought it was job well done...
For this size job, the appropriate JCT would not allow advance payments. The contract can only protect you if you act in accordance with it.
Yes J D.
I suspect a JCT for Homeowners (without consultant/contract administrator) was used. A JCT Minor Works with Contract Administrator is preferable. Made the painful mistake myself.
Did this guy say at 1.01 that the builder's a qualified architect? What are the chances of that? I suspect there's another side to this story and I would reserve judgement until the other party has at least been given an opportunity to respond.
Don't you just know it!
Glad Iâm not the only one to hear that nonsense
Thank you for sharing
This was informative
37 years in the building trade and nothing has changed.. people are still being conned by so called builders. .!
Still far far more trades shafted by non paying customers than the other way aroundâŠ.
I felt so sorry for this man up until he said that he undercut a quote by near 30k. Unfortunately if you pay cheap youâll pay twice. Most of us have made that mistake including myself, itâs just a learning curve. But when youâre spending that sort of money, go with recommendations of previous work etc.
If a quote undercuts other quotes, steer clear.
Lovely logic you have.
So in a world where business is run on competition
You find someone with a more competitive price and go ahead
That's your justification for the robber
Are you mad?
@@deepmystic5850 no, I think it's somewhere in between. There's competitive quotes, and blowing the competition out of the water and the example in the video (although I'm not sure he was referring to his own job) was significantly different to the rest. To the extent that it should ring alarm bells.
@@deepmystic5850 Thank you for your response.
Did I defend the robber? No of course not, itâs wrong what he has done, possibly ruined relationships and caused so much stress.
There is competition in everything, maybe a few 100 ÂŁÂŁâs or maybe even 1000ÂŁÂŁâs. But 30k? Does undercutting quotes by nearly 30k not ring alarm bells to you? Because it certainly does to me. It is an old saying, pay cheap pay twice.
This man is unfortunate, but he could have took some steps to avoid this from happening.
@@Sg-bi5tw You very clearly justified and stated you stopped feeling sorry for him at the point he found a better deal
I spent 5 6 months finding a decent spark
We had prices to change the CU and lay some new armoured lines to the garden from ÂŁ300 all the way up to ÂŁ2500
Go figure
The building industry is run by lazy cow boys now
It's quite simple
Glad to see a comment like this.
I'm so sorry to hear this story!!! Personally cheap quotes always terrify me. Hope this home owner gets justice but more importantly ends up with an extension that will help him forget all this hustle
50k isn't exactly "cheap". Probably it could be done for 50k. I guess it is difficult to judge between a good price and too cheap to be realistic.
Had sympathy until he mentions he went for the cheapest quote. If someone is 50% cheaper than everyone else that should set the alarm bells ringing straight away
The bitterness of poor workmanship is long remembered. after the sweetness of a cheap price is forgotten
this has happened to me also in the past 2 months. The builder put himself up as Ltd company however all the money was paid to his personal bank account. Not responding to phone calls or emails. Would love to speak to Rajiv to see what he has done or others reach out with advise.
I used a builder on recommendation but that builder sublet it to his worker/builder without my knowledge. Then when we had issues the main builder said it was nothing to do with him! And both walked away!
always get comparison quotes , for everything , ask for material receipts , check online reviews
We had cowboy builders do our extension. His name was Lee Murray, and he was a Welsh guy based in London. Everything started well, but everything just went sideways and we had to sack them from the job. Didnât lose too much money, but I still think about it every day. Itâs a corrosive experience that you donât ever recover from.
Had it again recently in our new house. Asked plumbers for a quote to switch our system boiler to a combi, connect an annex to the water supply, and change three radiators. Two quotes came in at 4-5k, and one came in at 10k. The 10k guy wanted 7k labour for three days work.
The tradesman industry is full of complete scum, and as a result, I just do most of the work myself and hire a professional only when legally required to do so.
My heart goes out to this guy. Would love to see a video on customers that donât pay builders.
czcams.com/video/qLe8-sG4Eg4/video.html
czcams.com/video/TZGzycYYfUI/video.html
czcams.com/video/J-LqLU7CxeA/video.html
When ever I do work and being a limited company.
1. I never take on anything that will put me under if the client won't pay, and if offered payment in advance refuse until the job is complete.
As a human, not sure why, but if you're paid before you do the work it feels like you are working for nothing and don't want to do the job.
If the job is long term then I accept payment for completed work, If you're asked to pay for materials upfront, tell the builder If you don't have the finances to fund the project then I'll supply the materials, and you cost me for labour.
If he says no, tell him to fuck off.
An out lay of ÂŁ15,000 for an established and honest contractor is peanuts.
Tell him to f*ck off.... I love it đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđđ
I think you put your finger in the best step to choose a contractor: check references. Second is probably multiple quotes (which was done) with the corollary that if itâs too good to be true is probably isnât - although this builder seems to have had convincing reasons for why he could come in low. Nothing intrinsically wrong with a low bid, just a warning sign that requires extra precautions. In the US the officers in a limited liability company are still responsible personally - and criminal behavior adds complications. Hindsight. Frequently perfect.
This is still going on. Getting addresses of jobs builders did and going and seeing the work done locally may be a way to check before you go ahead with work. Great advise about Ltd company's positions and insurance contracts in the video. Deep shame for family's left in this situation.
Our builder started work last June 2020 for a 6 x 6 metre kitchen extension. Contracts drawn and tweaked and payment schedules agreed. Once the brick level to dpc level was done he asked for 3.5k extra as he said material prices had sky rocketed. We said no as thsts his lookout. He then said he will agree to stick to same contract price and take a hit but needed 3.5k to cover additional material costs. After the walls went up and he was paid for that installment, he did a runner and we never heard from him or our 3.5k despite over 30 calls messages. Builders don't like taking over half built work and quotec silly money to finish off. its cost us 10k above what he quoted to get work done including a lot of family help who are DIY enthusiasts and dabble in building work. Without their help it would have been another 10k sting.
To be honest your mistake was saying unexpected price increases were his problem. Why should the builder take a loss for something you want done.
It sounds like Rajiv was also eager to pay tradesmen low rates. This is why heâs found himself down this rabbit hole.
He thought he was going to con the builders by paying under rate and he got scammed himself đ€Ł
Sure it was a competitive quote the builder provided.. 52K for a shell build. Another 56K to complete (plumbing, electrics, dry lining etc. 108K for a double storey side extension was average in 2020 prices. (a 1930's semi) But it would have been a better man if just returned the money he took if he could not make it work..25K bought me demolition only :(
UK company law may well allow this man to setup shop again for 13ÂŁ and do this again. That is what hurts me the most.
@@rajivvashm6046 Afraid he would struggle setting anything up if he had done that to me, not with two broken legs
if the builder got his numbers wrong( & can happen to anyone) that's fine. Talk to me and square up..quit the job in an amicable way. Don't run away after taking what you can, expecting to hide under limited company status.. be warned company law can be exploited easily by a rogue :( -- directors can walk away from liabilities - screwing their customers and creditors
Roger, can you do a video on how to work with traders? It would be good to hear your thoughts on what to look for in a fair transaction between both traders and clients.
Honestly I think the whole building work industry needs to be better managed and heavily regulated. I've only brought my house 3 weeks ago and have been scammed out of ÂŁ500 by a builder who asked for a deposit, but luckily cancelled now fighting to get my money back for work that hadn't started. I've then chosen new builders who seem to only work 3 days a week and haven't shown up since last Friday (so over a week) come Monday is when he said he will be back. Its such a stressful thing we have to deal with as home owners or anyone who wants work done there is Honestly no honor in this industry.
The siren call of regulation is rarely the answer. It would lead to protectionism and barriers to entry, so some problems would be solved but others would be created.
@@spacemanclips then how do we get round all this its very rare to find good tradesmen even after going through as much research on a company or person as much as possible only to still get **!?#$***. In all honesty people just shouldn't have to go through any of these stressful things. And it might be good to not just have anyone going into trade make it harder so it can't be abused
Knew MyBuilder would be mentioned before I watched the video!!
Unfortunately, many customers seems to choose contractors mainly based on price, when a large amount of money is at stake, a proper checks should be done by potential clients, with all of our projects, our payment terms are 20% deposit and 60% divided into the numbers of weeks then 20% balance, this creates enough funds to start the project and a healthy cash flow, the client can see what progress has been done since the last payment, and any concerns can be dealt with in good time without having to pay a large chunk of money and little progress,
And stage payments. 20% deposit would still have been ÂŁ30k on this project as a whole.
@@spacemanclips i understand that, i gave an example based on my type of projects which ranges between 15-50k average, however, a stage payment that is comfortable and safe to both parties should be agreed on,
so many people knocking bad builders
please praise good builders
We do exist
they do exist.... usually the good ones have an actual skill like Carpentry etc.. I got a good one now. Top guy - skilled and honest. ..accepting payment only after the work is completed. lesson learnt... been living in a bubble way too long..(office job for 25 years) the world is full of dodgy characters.
This sort of thing is shockingly common! I am surprised the law isn't changed to give more protection to the customer , including tightening up LTD Company law and liabilty. The police aren't interested even though I thought fraud is criminal! It brings the building trade into shame , but it applies to other trades too , where conmen are rife!
A terrible tale and I'm sorry to hear of another rouge trader. But the information about putting the contract in the builders name and not his limited company as worth it's weight in gold - thank you for sharing this advice.
I personal avoid putting materials on my trade accounts and always ask for materials to be paid before I order them. That way if the customer doesn't pay for whatever reason I'm only down on labour and not out of pocket in materials.
One thing that gets me about this is that Rajiv clearly explains that he accepted the cheapest quote and you can be told what you like about how they're going to cut cost but really they aren't going to save you ÂŁ20,000 on scaffolding.
It seems like Rajiv told himself he's doing everything right but ignored the simplest bits
- Get recommendations for builders people you know have used.
- Ask to see their previous work if possible.
-Get multiple quotes.
-Don't go with cheapest quote.
-Work out a payment schedule.
-Don't give people large amounts of money up front
I've seen this happen near me so many times with different builders where one bloke conned around 10 customers and almost everyone was like "WeLL hE SaiD hE coULd dO IT chEApeR tHaN aLL thE OthEr BuIlDeRs"
Obviously they aren't to blame completely as this type of builder is complete scum of the earth and will knock every person they come in to contact with, whether that be customers, trades or suppliers.
(edited spelling)
Key is to go see some previous projects! Nothing wrong with a good value quote, stupid to assume a higher priced one canât be the conman.
Yes I agree. As the customer you can be a bit in denial, you hope so badly that it goes well that you ignore alot of red flags without even knowing it. He's learned his lesson now and so have I.
Honest question - if I asked to see a builder's previous work is he going to arrange for me to visit someone's house he claims to have done work on?
@@Game0verFool maybe but whatâs the guarantee that thatâs not a mate or family member? This is the problem when people say âget a builder to do itâ there is very limited ability for the customer to check. All very well people saying âI wouldnât do thatâ but when your house is borderline habitable the pressure is on you to pay to keep it rolling.
The problem is that not only can you get conned and be left with a wreck of a house but you can also get a bodge that comes and bites you years down the line. This is what building control should be checking on, but seem to do very little.
What is so disappointing is that the perception is that involving the police is not going to work. This guy sounds like a fraudster so there needs to be some legal consequences where heâs deprived of the gains heâs made and the ability to keep operating. This is what the police are there for but appear to have forgotten it in their haste to assist balifs and prosecute hurt feelings for so called âhate crimesâ.
Itâs a bit of a trigger when I see sparkies saying that everything should be outlawed and only sparkies should be touching Electrics and donât get me wrong they have a point but likewise there should be some serious bite when tradesman do a bad job and the job costs should be regulated to stop rampant profiteering. Canât see anything like that happening so this will continue.
Well said
Should always get recommendations and check out previous work.
Shocking story. Of course its always good to use a builder that's recommended but that's not always possible. Clearly a lot of the "Trusted Trader" web sites don't cut the mustard. Bit of a minefield to say the least! Great video Roger, as always.
Honestly I have seen/heard more of this since the "Great British Lockdown refurb" started.
It wasn't that difficult to see what was going to happen - as the good/reputable firms got booked up and started turning down work, higher value work started to filter down to the shit firms/individuals who are either incompetent or just cowboys.
There's LOTS of dodgy electrical work to be fixed by Kenny the Kitchen fitter and Bobby the Bathroom fitter.
Shame.
Yep. Definitely an uptick due to the demand.
It's not lockdown that's done this. It's Brexit. It caused a lot of the good guys from Poland, Romania etc to return to mainland Europe, leaving us with a total shortage of quality British builders (there are some, just not nearly enough), and it is open season for cowboys like this. The profile of people that voted for Brexit is not a coincidence!
@@markpdouglas Oh do piss off you arrogant, judgemental moron.
The foreign workers issue could easily be solved, but there is no political will to do it. They are too busy sucking up to leftist causes like open borders, blm, gender identity and pretending that covid was the end of the world, while forcing the toxic jab on everyone.
This incident is the scary part of having works done. Cannot trust any of these builders, giving the trade very bad name
lest keep it real..... its balanced out by scamming customers .
I've also noticed these days no-one is willing to put forwards builders who has done work for them before, they seem reluctant so it shows the sort of impression these builders are leaving behind them
I am a Chartered Surveyor, 22 years experience, and used to install uPVC windows prior to that. In that time I reckon I've come across over a thousand tradesman. In all of these years I've found FOUR lads who I trust and would have working on my own house. The rest I tolerate so the sake of getting work done for clients - but subject to strict contractual and financial controls.
I might sound a bit naĂŻve about this but in most transactions involving payment for services/goods isnât payment usually withheld until said service/goods are received. I donât see why anyone would need money upfront if they are honest.
Sorry to hear this. Where somebody is fraudulently (or wrongfully) trading, I believe the law allows you to look through company âpiercing the corporate veilâ from a recourse perspective.
Iâm sure youâre speaking to your solicitors so do ask them about this one to see if there is any scope.
Doesnât anyone see the builders professional indemnity insurance.
Also another avenue could be to use a conpany called transpact who hold money from A to send to B only when they mutually agree that the promises/contract is fullfilled.
Iâve herd some crow boy builder stories...but this guy sounds clever how heâs done it to his customers, hope they get their money back but heâs very smartly covered him self
I think you've mis-understood. He has legal cover - pointless having legal fees paid to take a folded company to court. It will have zero assets.
I always had a contract with stage payments, no money up front. I only came unstuck once when a customer tried to not pay the VAT that was clearly itemised on the quote.
There are some jobs where we've had customers front the cost of materials, no profit but so they've got them onsite in case either party decides not to continue. We don't mind getting bumped on labor but as long as materials are covered and in the customers hands we're happy. Regular customers and jobs it's just stage payments though, difference being we only deal with word of mouth so there's already good knowledge of our work history and ethic.
Wow..feel bad for this gentleman, great insight to dodgy tradesman.
Customers quite often ask me if I need money up front but I never take anything upfront, I think it seems very unprofessional.
Especially when most companyâs have various accounts as building merchants where the materials donât have to be payed for over a month.
Some times yes it may be good if you personally have to pay for materials you cannot get from your suppliers. But then only charge the customer on arrival of the goods or get them to pay for it in the first place.
I donât see how anybody can try and charge their labour costs before even turning up to a jobđ
You hear so many people who have been scammed like this by paying a lot of money upfront.
Sounds to me like he went with the cheapest quote. Itâs not nice to see things like this happen but you get what you pay for.
Cheap labour isnât skilled, skilled labour isnât cheap
if the builder got his numbers wrong( & can happen to anyone) that's fine. Talk to me and square up..quit the job in an amicable way. Don't run away after taking what you can, expecting to hide under limited company status.. be warned company law can be exploited easily by a rogue :( -- directors can walk away from liabilities - screwing their customers and creditors
Really tricky this. Would be good to hear from some seasoned builders on how people can avoid this shit.
If someone is using a limited company I always look at the Companies House website to see how long that company has been around. If it's only a year or two then it may be innocent or they may be jumping between companies like this person. The website also allows you to look into the person registered against the company to see what other companies they've been a director of and you can sometimes see a pattern.
Sad story and every customers nightmare.
Whenever I've used tradesmen I buy the materials myself and to be fair most of them have never had a problem with that. They give me a list, they name any brands or specifics they need, I source it and it's all there waiting for them Monday morning. They work all week, give me an invoice for that week's labour and I pay them via bank transfer there and then before they head off Friday afternoon. All agreed up front, no advances, no dramas.
You also wouldn't know how much the build would cost.
As you don't have a set quote.
Rajiv sounds like a smart guy so I don't know how he ended up going with someone who priced a third lower than other contractors. In a way, I feel like he really should have known better.
He's British Asian, you know how we are bro.
@@da_great_mogul best price!
@@Abdula786_ we'd think "great, let's keep it quiet that his price seems so low and pretend it seems high". Little do we know, he's one step ahead.
As always customers never want to pay the proper price and always want cheap đ so I think you get what you deserve you pay peanuts you get monkeys...... I bet he didn't go cheap for his Mercedes or Porsche or whatever see this is the thing they spend whatever for thr flashy things in life but the thought of paying a hard working man a large sum for an excellent job no way I can't be doing thatđđđ
@@mikethemask1525 couldn't agree more with you. People often forget that skilled labour is in shortage in the UK and the laws of supply and demand dictate that good quality labour is going to cost a fair few bob when that is the case. Also, people forget that everyone has a desire to earn good money - just because you're a skilled labourer doesn't mean you don't have a right to earn good money
Well, last time I heard the law states you pay no more than 10% of the total for the builder to buy the materiel and no more than that.
then when the building is finished and a structural engineer has okay the work and you also happy then you pay the remaining money!
NEVER pay out lots of money to any builder or company only the 10% so they can't con you.
this is a common legal strategy sadly, used here in the usa too. The ltd or straw company actually owns no assets, they often "lease" or "rent " all equipment and tooling from a third party (often owned by a holding company that the orig owner owns or has interest in indirectly. ) all the legal contracts and permits are nothing more than a money maker for the government.
I always buy the materials myself and pay weekly in arrears for labour.
When hiring a contractor, get references, visit the places where work was done and talk to the people.
I presume it was a JCT minor works contract which allows for monthly interim payments. What's the point in drawing up a contract if you're not going to follow it.
we had a case when i was asked by friend to step in as person was quoted half price for loft conversion, obviously didn't happen, people need to understand there are is no way that you can build for half a price maybe 5k difference not 50-80k.
There is nothing stopping someone naming the directors as co-defendents when taking a limited company to Court.
If you win, then you can take a High Court writ against both the Director and the limited company.
Hi, that being true, I would say that's the way to go. cheers
Can you make a director a co-defendant if the contract was with a Ltd company and payments were made only to the company? The dispute and any liabilities remain with the company surely?
Thank you RM. I will win because he's trying to dissolve his company after taking almost 50K from customers like me. I will mention this to my solicitor. She said it was unlikely to get a penny back(not necessarily my intention). More to question his ability to scam people this way by and hiding under Uk company law. my CPR 35 is almost complete so we're getting ready to go to court. Name and shame him , I will
@@rajivvashm6046 everyone took you for a ride. Even your solicitors. A cpr 35 is not 4k! And 1.8k for court appearance is ridiculous. I have quite a bit of experience in litigation in the magistrate/county/high court in central London. If it is a county court a really good barrister will charge about 2k to 3k for appearance if you have good contacts. You better hope he doesn't have really good barrister friends/contacts. Otherwise you might be in for a rude awakening and a very hefty legal bill (losing side pays). Solicitors are useless by the way. I completely understand your situation, but civil law is quite different to what a lay person think it is.
This is why I recommend going on courses on how to do architecture design, foundation laying, brickwork, plumbing, electrics, roof building, flooring, plastering & decorating. Source all these throughout you're lifetime knowing exactly what to do, I guess, the amount of satisfaction from this is, you'd feel like a king!đ A driving license will also help tremendously!
Pay in small bits, don't ever pay in big chunks. Lessen the damage if there is fraud
We had the same problem with a 'bathroom fitter' , although nothing of this scale. We thought we did everything right, the fitter was recommended from the bathroom place we ordered the items from. What a shambles and crap workmanship that was. The guy couldn't even stop a bathroom sink leaking that he had fitted. He left us with no heating and couldn't get it working again ( I managed it from CZcams videos).The silicone looked like an 8 year old had done it. I even phoned up the bathroom place to complain and they said, "well we can't understand that as he does all our in-store displays". Mmm I said, but they're not connected up to a 'live' supply (it looked shit anyway).We ended up knocking a fair chunk of the bill after paying him for the work that was 'reasonable' and paying a 'proper' fitter to finish it off.
I've said it many times before on here people think ALL tradesmen are of the same quality đ and LOWEST PRICE WINS EVERYTIME đ€Šââïžđš
Hi Roger, Iâve been on your comments page before. The problem is integrity or the lack of. But as Iâve said before, there are as many if not more dodgy clients who rip tradesmen & builders off. It matters not that one (speaking personally here) carryâs out work to a very high standard if these dishonest individuals donât want to pay, youâre faced with having to chase them for the outstanding, very often costing one yet more hard earned money with zero result, this why I/we had finally had enough in this country. Weâve started a business in the States, and at the moment thatâs looking very promising, weâve secured our first small contracts & Iâm busy working on a large landscape design job for a multi million pound Office development. I wonât be shedding any tears when I leave these shores. All the best.
Good luck, Jan.
@@JohnSmith-kb5ku cheers John, can't wait to get out of here. I would strongly recommend anyone who has a good work ethic & is a decent tradesmen or in the oil related industry to get the fck outta here. We have literally just registered our company in the Lone Star State, Texas, from the work point of view probably one of the best States to go for. It ain't easy but nothing worthwhile ever is & we got a lucky break falling in with a big Realtor, specialise in Office & industrial. Cheers again
Jan
Best of luck to you but just remember there are bad people everywhere. The problem is that often the law and the government gives them shelter and sustenance.
Cheers Roger, youâre absolutely spot on, the World is chalk a block with toe rags, thieves & vagabonds. Itâs good & rewarding when you carry out work for decent folks but as weâve talked about before the builder/ tradesman is onto a hiding to nothing as itâs all down to trust. There doesnât seem to be a lot of it about. We have a really good client in the States so fingers Xd itâs a good start.
To be fair Jan, if you'd have got in with a large commercial customer in the UK you'd probably have had a far easier life. One problem in the UK is that large commercial clients have procurement teams who will only go to other large suppliers, so unless you subcontract to the large suppliers at a low rate (and with it's own risks similar to those experienced in the video), you'll face a long hard road to get a look in. Can be done though - in the past I set up a successful construction business with effectively one large and rapidly growing commercial customer and was always paid for everything like clockwork on 30 days. I never touched working with the public.
Thatâs just brutal. Feel for the bloke.
Im going through it right now. He put in a position where I don't have a working kitchen, and he asked for extra money to progress further. But, now he has delayed it by almost a week. I only had a verbal contract in place, he doesn't have a limited company. All I want to know is how do I protect myself now.
My advice would be to stop using builders if possible. Contract manage the works yourself. Bring in the trades on labor prices and supply materials yourself.
Whilst it's stressful and time consuming, you won't lose large sums of money because you'll pay wages each week and you'll pay for materials as needed.
If you ask around, you won't have tuns of trouble getting tradesmen recomended to you. Unless you live in the woods, I gaurentee at least one person in you street has had good work done recently.
I'm a 58 yr old brick layer and Ive been doing this type of work for more than 30 years, I always price brickwork jobs labor only and expect to be paid weekly rather than up front.
I always estimate the materials for the client which takes half an hour and In 99% of cases, our work is checked by the local authority. And to be honest, its not that difficult to identify shoddy brickwork and sack the chancer's as we call them. That's not true for all the trades because some stuff is hidden, like electrics ETC.
When doing a job like this, always be on site the day the LA inspector is coming and make sure he checks everything. And don't be scared to ask them questions. in my experience they love a cuppa and a chat.
Contract managing your own build can be rewarding in the long run.
I hope this fella gets it all sorted because I've seen the affects this type of thing can have on people.
Just my humble opinion and current process (as I see fair for all involved)
Point 1- I really donât think there are that many âcowboy buildersâ incompetent builders/businessman yes and often cowardly in nature, resulting in them getting in deep water and walking away from jobs.
Point 2- there are just as many cowboy customers as there are builders.
Point 3- there needs to be more regulation in this industry to control both builders and homeowners.
Point 4- our process⊠we have and will always use the following pay structure, itâs fair for all involved and I canât think of a single example of builder customer relationship breakdown that it wouldnât solve.
We take a small deposit to book a project, we then divide the project costs through fortnightly payment until the completion of scope, any unforeseen or addition to spec is quoted for and invoiced separately. If you miss payment, we stop work. If your unhappy, you stop payment.
Quite simple really and our customers love it this way
Probably the best and most sensible comment on here.
Very realistic and useful comment . Iâm going to have my flat renovation . Do u have ur company details.
Leaving work half finished is a manipulation lever builders use. Itâs extremely costly to remediate half finished jobs. Customers need more recourse.
I'm not very far into this story, but it seems to me that the initial charge to deal with the sewer pipe was not that excessive - if it included working out the solution plus the concrete, steel, and labour. Ready to be corrected if I'm wrong.
The sewer quote was probably ok.. & I would have paid him to move on. But the builder did not even want to do it having extracted 25k from me. I had to find someone else to do it. They did for 2500. Either way , guess what.. he is trying to dissolve the company. UK company needs to go after directors that walk away with unearned revenue... in my case to the tune 17K !