MJ literally retired in his PRIME at 30. The best statistical years for NBA players. Came back 3peated again. No one has ever owned a decade of sports like MJ.
@@kevinjohnson963 Actually he shared each decade played with other players, many players have gotten rings on his watch. No need to lie kid, you were better off staying silent.
10 straight scoring title... an unheard of accomplishment in all of sports. He only has 6 MVPs because the voters felt like they wanted to give it someone else. He should have at least 8 MVPs.
@@thegipper1215lebron getting stats playing alongside two top 10 players and losing deserved the mvp over drose who had no allstars and carried his team? You’re crazy
Skap Attack should be looking over his shoulder for the authorities, because the things he has done to Lebron’s “legacy” might be illegal in some states. Another great video.
if u think jordan is better than lebron , i think the same to , jordan is better , its fact , but having lebron not top 2 its phenomenal, lebron was the best player in the 4 finals he won , he is a 4 time mvp and and was 14 time in the top 5 in mvp voting . Also i think lebron has more competition in the fi als , he faced the warriors 4 time lost 3 time and won 1 time in 2016 , i believe that this ring is better than 2 rings combined . I dont understand , lebron faced though competition too , the piston, the big 3 celtics many time .
Accolades and stats aside, there was an air about Jordan that was simply unmatched. You felt his presence through the screen and had your eyes glued on him the entire time watching a game. He not only owned basketball, but seemingly all of the sporting world while he played.
@@Fatty723 LeFlop played in the Leastern conference. It is by all measures the weakest the Eastern conference has every been. It was literally called the "Leastern Conference" for a reason. Most years 10 of the 15 All NBA guys were in the West, and LeFlop had Wade, on of the few East representatives, With him. He had another all star in Bosh there were 41 50 win teams in the west, 10 60 win teams, and a 73 win team in the West, while LeFlop had to "contend" with 18 50 win teams (excluding the ones he was on) in the Least. There were seasons where 4 teams in the west were better than anything LeFlop would face in the Least. There were seasons where there were 7 50 win teams in the west because the least was so bad.
The biggest non-statistical factor for me, watching both players play over their eras, was that when the Bulls were chasing their titles, you just knew they weren't going to lose when it mattered. It was a sickening feeling, and I always found myself rooting for the underdog, but you always knew when Jordan controlled a game, and that was that. For LeBron you always found yourself considering broader factors, and although he's always dominant for sure, the games themselves always felt more fragile and undetermined. Jordan was just a force of will, and that's coming from a self proclaimed "hater" of the Bulls over their era.
I always felt like "on paper" LeBron should be physically more gifted for basketball, being bigger and stronger. But I feel he lacks that ruthless drive to compete to the point of being an asshole to everyone, both teammates and rivals. You can see it in "the last dance" when he calls Pippen "egotistical" bc he wanted to renegotiate his contract and was causing some trouble in the company. WHILE MJ WAS SWIMMING IN MONEY ALREADY!! I think LeBron would make a great friend but is not competitive to the level Jordan was
Great comment! I was actually a Chicago guy and remember feeling that if we were going into the fourth quarter loosing by less than 10, it was basically a guaranteed win! Jordan would make sure of it.
@@kleitosaliagas5668 thanks! Ironically I think Jordan created the culture by which LeBron could be deemed lesser i.e. individual over team, business not sport, control the wider personal brand etc. Put LeBron as a basketball player pre-Jordan and it'd be a different conversation I think. I do find LeBrons basketball IQ fascinating though, his situational memory/instinct is as impressive as anything else...Jordan was a relatively blunt basketball player in comparison, for better or worse.
@@user-sn2cx7fb5w there were mever 9 years where he didn't do anything, but yes absolutely! Down less than 10, going into the fourth, especially at home, in the late 80s (which I assume is when you are talking about when you say "didn't do anything") I totally thought the game was in the bag for us.
@@AGaboonViperIsUnderYourBed 4 or 5 different ocasions I was shooting hoops these past 6 months and some kids were there playing, ages 8-12 and I asked them who is the bball goat. everytime the very quick and unanimous answer was MJ. it's my small sample, but still... it means something.
@@WideHarryCockno they don’t. My favorite baseball player of all time is Ken Griffey Jr. But I know Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Ted Williams and at least several others are better than Griffey was. Same with football. Barry Sanders is my all time favorite running back and football player of all time. But I know Jim Brown and Walter Payton are better. It’s called common sense.
@@AGaboonViperIsUnderYourBedcommon fucking sense says the man who is a better all around player would be the best player of all time. Jordan is not only a less basketball player but less of a person.
Jordan’s greatness cannot be overstated, including the impact he had on the game itself. Jordan single-handedly internationalised interests in basketball, there were courts/ outdoor hoops going up all over UK because of the interest he generated around what previously was mainly a US-based sport, he’s still selling millions of sports gear with his name on it decades after he retired from playing. The moves and fluidity to the game he introduced influenced countless baby-Jordan wannabes 😊 he is in a league entirely on his own. The only person I would allow to come close to challenging is Kareem (a rare discussion I would allow when generous), theres a pretty huge drop off after that when talking about the GOAT of BBall.
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends. Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ. Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2. Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3. 91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic. 92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half 93-- average 41 points per game highest ever. Jordan has a higher peak which LeBron has not surpassed
@@thepubknight6144 -- That's the thing, his Stans love to claim that lebron was a better Defensive player than Jordan... LOL!!! But Reality says that lebron wasn't even better than the players in his own time!! Lebron HOmers Hate Facts.
The "advanced analytics" push was a way to demean Kobe and stop the debate between Lebron and Kobe but it back fired when they went back to Lebron vs MJ debates. MJ not only is the greater player, he was also the most efficient player and that's including his two wizards seasons.
@@phillyphan1346 When you're built like a bulldozer in an age where defense and real centers don't exist, when more often than not the refs look away to your advantage and when 75% of your shots are bulldozered within 10 feet of the basket, you better have a higher field goal %.
@@phillyphan1346 lol you know free throw % matters too??? Notice your bum ass left that off. Their fg, 3p and TS is super close but their ft% isn't. It all is included. MJ career PER is highest of ALL PLAYERS ALL TIME including your Kyang
I watched both play , Jordan was great but u Jordan lovers need to face facts , rings aren't all that matters , LeBron has accomplished a lot more with almost no other star players around him except for now having Anthony Davis , LeBron had guys that couldn't wait to play with him because for a stretch of time they knew they'd either win the finals or get there , plus please remind me who the all time leading scorer is now? I forgot LOL oh wait it's LeBron right ?
@@jeffsmith8204 first of all, I never said that Jordan is better because of the rings. Second, my favourite player is Olajuwon, therefore you can take your "u Jordan lovers and stick it. Third (and here is where I doubt you saw them both play) are you 15? Because you know, LeBron played with Dwyane Wade, and he was the one to sail ship and join other stars. Therefoe, you could have saved your time and shut up
@@elnardowebster2842 im 42 so yeah I've seen them both play LoL, I will never shut up sir so don't waste your time even mentioning that HAHA , I'm wondering where the age 15 came from though haha that was so random
@jeffsmith8204 bro lebron has had more help than jordan ever had its complete bs wade Kyrie wtf are u talking about u bronsexuals say some of the dumbest shit ever its mind boggling how u people actually think this way
@@jeffsmith8204 its like you didnt even watch the video. anyone can play a sport longer and get more stats. doesnt matter if you play a sport for 30 years if you werent good for all 30 years
LeBron vs Jordan was never really a debate in the first place if you take a look at all of Jordans success wins accomplishments and the fact that he had such an enormous cultural impact on the game of basketball all over the world. It's obviously clear that Jordan is the much better player LeBron is a great player in his own way and I'll give him credit for what he's done but he'll never surpass MJ
What did lebron do that change the game? Player empowerment is the worst the thing that's happened to the league. I was all for it upon a time, but it's gotten out of control.
I don’t really respect anything about Lebron other than his raw athleticism. He’s cheated the game and himself in my opinion. That’s why he will never be Mount Rushmore in my opinion.
@@skap_attack That's fair to say LeBron did have to switch teams everytime the team he was on wasn't good enough to win a championship anymore because he likes to chase titles and he has no sense of loyalty like players in the past
man... out of all your vids on this subject this one I feel has the most ruthlessly accurate laid out data driven info dump on the two men put in a way that anybody who'd even attempt to argue against it just looks straight up stupid... THIS is the type video you need to shut all arguments about this down COMPLETELY... i'm archiving this right now for empirical evidence & historical documentary LMAO.......
the only stat you did miss though was the 3 straight stat... where Jeff never lost 3 straight games regular season or playoffs for 8 yrs during the 90's....
The debate starts and ends with Lebron getting shutdown in a finals by JJ Barea. If you think that a player comparable to Barea would ever shut down MJ in a finals, you are nuts.
lebron is the goat. mj never led the bulls to the finals before pippen. can you tell me who was the clevelands roster in 2007 finals? lebron took a trash team to the finals at 23 years old. mj would never
As a Heat fan I’m grateful for the two titles that LeBron brought us. And obviously as a Heat fan I have no real love for Michael Jordan who would regularly beat the crap out of us. But it’s undeniable that Jordan is the greatest player ever. We’ve never seen that combination of ruthless scorer and lock down defender. Kobe had a run where he was a great two way player. I was always proud of Wade for being a pretty decent defender as well as scorer. And South Beach Bron was a truly elite defender most of the time. But what Jordan did is unthinkable now. Dropping 40-50 on you with almost no threes and then locking down your best perimeter player. Doing this every night for 82 games with no “load management.” LeBron always gets called a freak athlete but Jordan really was that.
That’s a complete and total winning take right there. Kobe was as close as it gets. Averaging 29 per game for a decade while making 9 all nba team selections. But Kobe never reached the levels Jordan did. No one likely ever will.
LeBron clears lmao people wanna say load management and how Jordan played all games are the same people who say LeBron playing 20 seasons is why he has all these accolades it doesn’t make sense lmao
@@Dolla8playing 82 game a season and playing 20 years have nothing to do with each other. The straws the LBJ fans grasp at is ridiculous. Lebron plays in a much softer league with relaxed assist rules, and 1’s etc. in this defensively weaker league, Lebron couldn’t last 82 games a season. In an easier to score league, and with 3’s, Lebron still couldn’t beat MJ’s season scoring titles. LBJ can’t stand up to MJ’s defensive titles/ability. Those are both facts. Because of his load managing, and playing in a soft league, he has played 20 years and due to longevity, he finally passed MJ. Not the goat. He is a bad shooter, bad defender, flops, not loyal to teammates, makes excuses for his many losses that he caused and on and on.
I actually agree with the fact that MJ is the GOAT, but there were some inaccuracies that bothered me: 1. Saying that advanced analytics were made up for the purpose of Bron propoganda is one of the wildest nba takes I’ve ever heard, and just isn’t true 2. Ok, yes MJ played against some all-time greats, but lebron lost his titles to the 2014 spurs, and warriors in 2017 and 2018. All 3 of these rosters have an actual argument for the greatest rosters of all time (granted there’s no excuse for that 2011 dirk choke). 3. Let’s not pretend MJ didn’t have a BALLER supporting cast, I mean a top 30 player all time in Scottie pippen, the greatest rebounder and several time DPOY winner Dennis Rodman, several time all-defense Horace grant, one of the most accurate shooters in his era in Steve Kerr. I’m not saying that Lebron hasn’t played with his fair share of superstars, but you make it sound like Jordan god-carried them to three rings when in reality he had one of the best supporting casts ever. Again: I AGREE that Jordan is the GOAT. If you take longevity out of the picture, damn near every metric shows Jordan was just better at the peak of his powers than Lebron ever was. I just thought some of your arguments were a bit ridiculous.
Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't know much about the MJ - Lebron goat argument before and this video was very informative, but it seemed very sensationalized.
Yea, this is honestly a pretty terrible video to watch if you want to learn about the goat debate. If you want a video roughly this length that is quite frankly more unbiased and entertaining than this one I’d recommend jxmmyhighroller’s “The Harsh truth about the goat debate” video. That’ll give you a much better idea of what is actually going on (also I just love jxmmyhighroller)
This video is one of the most emotionally derived pieces of bullshit on the GOAT debate. It belongs more in some Facebook group than in any forum for actual serious discussion. I also say this as someone who believes Jordan is the GOAT
It is sad these videos even need to be made. Honestly I only started making them because of all of the comments I was seeing on my other videos lol. Shocked at how many people think this is a conversation
Thanks for this. Sometimes I feel like I’m in an alternate universe where LeBron and MJ are always spoken of in the same breath. Never made sense to me. It is so ridiculous. Again, thank you.
I honestly feel bad for LeBrons horrible media partners and clutch sports guys who plants the narrative that he is the GoAT 🐐…instead of celebrating that Lebron is one of the greatest ever but firmly behind Jordan and possible magic, Kobe, Kareem….they have all the networks youtube and every other outlet talking about his weeknesses and that he’s not Jordan?
Jordan had a better peak but Lebron has proven better durability and sustained excellence so it depends on your criteria for who the best basketball player is.
Great video! It truly is not even close. With more opportunity, Lebron accomplished substantially less. There is an entire HOF career separating them. This absurd debate should have never started.
When you calculate it in your mind it's true indeed :2 titles, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP, 1 DPOY (basically Hakeem's resume in a nutshell even though I think he has 2DPOYs)
LeBron had -more help (all stars, 3 point shooters, well rounded role players, etc) -more athletic (bigger, stronger, more durable and less injury prone) -played WAY longer -played with more teams -improved sports medicine and training -easier to score in an era of fairly weak defense and lots of flopping -Rarely gets calls against him -played in a pretty weak east for much of his career. -got whatever the hell he wanted for the most part (LeGM). How the hell is he LESS accomplished if he's "better" than Jordan...? The math ain't mathing...!!!
Absolutely astonishing and unbelievable that this somehow became a conversation. I still am at a complete loss whenever I see people making a case for Lebron over Jordan. Quite frankly I don’t even have Lebron top 5.
@@skap_attack They don't even have the I.Q. capacity to do any retort videos to defend LeFlop. They just go to every video that tells the truth, then proceed to shed tears all over it
It is hilarious that those advanced analytics were created after Jordan's playing days and we all know LeBron is very much aware of them and is chasing them. Yet, Jordan still has the edge in them.
Michael Jordan even said that he would’ve loved to face the greats before him and even after him. And that it would be a disrespect to everybody that came before him. But he did appreciate being a part in the whole process, and being a part of the debate. But he would never give himself that type of accolade. He’s letting everybody decide for him. As we should.
The fact that Lebron has played for 4 different teams, played with multiple Allstars, and stacked his teams multiple times automatically ends the debate. MJ beat/won more than everyone on the Dream Team…. Meanwhile Lebron has played with more than half his Olympic teammates.
yeah I agree but whats weird is that when he got his Cavs ring they really weren't stacked.. they were actually a shitty team tbh aside from Kyrie and Love. After the ring He stacked the team and lost anyway
Actually, Jordan's years at Washington seemed to solidify his greatness. Jordan was way past him prime and yet was one of the best defensive players as an old guy and could still score. It's unfortunate that injuries ended those seasons. LeBron is behind Bird, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Russell, Dr. J, and Kareem. Those guy not only were great but brought fans to the league. LeBron has made the NBA a negative among most people. During the 80s, EVERYONE knew about Bird vs Magic, Celtics vs. Lakers. They made the NBA a big deal...then came Jordan. Jordan took the league to a higher level of popularity. Why? Because Bird, Magic, and Jordan were winners and faithful to their franchises. Most people like loyalty.
This whole loyalty thing is crazy.. 😂😂 are any of us loyal to our current employers? Hell no! If a better opportunity arrives and our current employer isn’t matching the offer/better overall work environment, we’d be out in an instant! And don’t ever forget that the Mavs traded Harrison Barnes in THE MIDDLE OF A GAME!! And you want players to be loyal to franchises?😂
Thanks for this video! It's about time someone breaks it down for this generation of NBA fans. Next time someone wants to debate the goat, I'll pull up this video lbs. They'll still deny it and say "well that's my opinion" 😂😂😂 facts dont even matter after that line
Not only was Jordan better, he was the only player I know of, who drew in people who cared nothing for basketball. So many non sports fans showing up to his games or glued to the tv during live matches. His layups were such an amazing site to behold. Seeing him switch hands 2-3 times in mid-air in front of Ewing, Barkley, etc. while seeing his flawless layup go off the backboard.
Here is a pretty good equalizer: On the all-time scoring list, Wilt is the only one on there with only 1045 games played. If you want to see how prolific each scorer was on the list, check their point total UP TO their first 1045 games, and the list looks like this: Michael Jordan: 31,714 Wilt Chamberlain: 31,419 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 28,753 LeBron James: 28,345 Karl Malone: 27,304 Kevin Durant: 26,892 Kobe Bryant: 26,430 Shaquille O’Neal: 26,325 So far, Jordan is the only player to have truly eclipsed Wilt, and both are the only players in NBA history to have eclipsed 30K points in 1045 games or less.
Now we need to get this video out to every major media so they can repeat all this and tell the truth, instead of lie and say what they get paid to say
So everyone should be Philly now? New league, new ways to build a team. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't mean it is "ring chasing"@@hitmanagent871
Wrong, the case study should be of the MJ and LBJ fans, how many actually played basketball at a high level. I guarantee you, a majority of MJ fans never made it on their HS basketball teams- like skap
@@phillyphan1346What does Skap not being on a high school basketball team have to do with him ruthlessly dismantling the narrative that LeBron is anywhere near "GOAT" status? You can't disprove the stats, so you attack Skap personally? Not a big brain move there, cowpoke.
@@TheWorstAmy-LegacyAccount It means he never played the game at a high enough level to actually know what he is talking about. 90%+ of MJ fans are casuals who never even watched him or have played the game at a high level. If you havent noticed, more and more NBA greats are saying LBJ is the GOAT. It is going to continue as time goes on. In my experience. LBJ fans tend to know more about the game than MJ fans. Why? Because you need to know context. Additionally, Skap makes these disparaging LBJ videos weekly. He thinks about LBJ all day long. If it isnt a debate why does he make debate videos about it every other video? It is pathetic.
@@phillyphan1346You sound dumb more and more NBA players are saying it and now it's about 60% Jordan's the goat and almost 40% for LeBron so even the greatest athletes to lace up shoes don't have it even you parrot 😂 Nice try harder next time 😂
@mikerobinson6969 Jordan is the GOAT 🐐, but LeBron was 2nd in DPOY voting in 2013 the same year he won MVP, and almost won DPOY in 2014 too. He only cared about defense in his young prime, and not so much once he got into his 30s. Jordan gave his all, all of the time.
@@alvinbutler9357 the reason I made the comment about the fouls is because LeBron is #10 in games played, #3 in minutes played but ranks 176th in fouls. Everyone else thats top 10 in games and minutes ranks no lower than 30th in fouls. Hes played 349 more games and still has less fouls than Jordan, hes played 500 more games than Isiah Thomas and has less fouls than him as well. They say Jordan got special treatment with the refs..so what do they call what LeBron gets?
That's a great observation, but the only advantage of getting more fouls called is more trips to the line for more points. We both know LeBron doesn't need anymore of those lol.
If you have never watched a game of basketball in your life, and you happen to pass by a gym where there are some players playing a pickup game and two of those players happen to be Lebron and MJ at their peak, and you watch them play for an hour, no one in their right mind would say Lebron is better than MJ. All you have to do is watch them play. Who is faster? Who jumps more? Who is quicker? Who dribbles better? Who has better foot work? Who is more exciting? Who dunks better? Who is a better trash talker? Who is an absolute killer in crunch time? Who is an absolute killer, period? Who is a better scorer? Who always wants to guard the best player on the other team (ruthless defender)? Who is willing to play with a fever? Who wants to play more minutes? Who played in an era where there was no ejection unless there was blood? Who played in an era where you were constantly hand checked (pushed) or forearm checked (pushed)? If you were literally in a war, who do you want in the trenches with you? Come on, guys.....it's not even close. Debate is over. Ok, I'll give you one: Who is taller?
Lebron is faster than MJ facts, jumps far far higher than MJ see the head above the rim many times which MJ never did we have video proofs now, LeBron far quicker too see the metrics, better in clutch as he has more clutch game winners with more fg% stats too back it up so all your points are debunked today we have technology that disproves all the bullshit and LeBron has killer mentality than MJ who quit the league due to his mental health issues lol no killer🤣
LeBron jumps more than MJ which everyone knows and stats too back it up so stop the bloody nonsense, Lebron is 100 times superior to MJ in all physical metrics
Thanks to MJ's former trainer with the Bulls for pointing out the one set of statistics that settles this debate once and for all: Only ONE player in the entire history of the NBA has accomplished all the of the following five achievements in a single season: Scoring leader title...First team All-Defense...MVP regular season...MVP NBA finals...NBA champion Yeah, MJ is the ONLY player in history to pull that off...and he did it FOUR TIMES!!!! P.S. MJ is also the only player to ever win the scoring title and be Defensive Player of the Year in the same season. Oh, and the one year that he played point guard, he came just short of AVERAGING a triple double for the entire season (missed it with only 9.6 rebounds per game - but think about his scoring average combined with also averaging more than 10 assists per game!). Case closed - MJ is the GOAT, and he's the GOAT by a long country mile.
lebron is the goat. mj never led the bulls to the finals before pippen. can you tell me who was the clevelands roster in 2007 finals? lebron took a trash team to the finals at 23 years old. mj would never
Jordan won his championships more efficiently than Lebron, a perfect 6-0 record in the finals. Lebron lost more finals than he won. Currently, his record is 4-6. The con of longevity is he is at risk of adding to his championship loss record. It already looks bad due to the fact he's been to the finals 10 times and only got 4 wins.
@@skiidmvdebunk the video? I would love to see you debunk the analytics and individual stats between both players! Comparing LeBron to many other great SF's who came before him that played at least 500 games than comparing Jordan to other great point guards who played at least 500 games and see where each player ranks in points, assists, steals, blocks, and so on it's not even close! Jordan takes it easily! I would love to see you debunk that FACT that the arrogant self proclaimed king has played hundreds of more games than Jordan and over 17,000 more minutes than Jordan and still doesn't rise to Jordans level! Jordan came out of retirement to come back and win another 3 consecutive titles! LeBron wouldn't have done that. He beat the warriors and self proclaimed himself as the greatest of all time which he received a lot of backlash for that on the media. If your the goat you don't have to say it! But the next two season LeBron was swept in the finals 0-4 and than the next year went 1-4! Some goat! All while having great players! Jordan achieved more in less time than LeBron and you millennials and LeBron fans can't seem to wrap your heads around that! The fact that some actually think that LeBron vs Jordan is even debatable shows how stupid some really are. Kobe is ahead of LeBron
@@timtwing5886 This whole video is a terrible argument and easily debunkable. You say that Jordan only has fewer total stats because he played for less time than Bron when Bron had passed Jordan in points by his 14th season and also passed him in total rebounds and assists and blocks before his 15th season which was Jordans last. You say Jordan led the league in scoring more and that's just about the only thing Jordan is better in. Lebron was always focused on being a more all-around player and averaging better all-around stats than Jordan and that's why he didn't lead the league in scoring more. Bron's era also excelled in scoring compared to Jordan's with way more scorer's and long-range shooters coming up. Lebron was still ana mazing scorer and he is also better all round than Jordan being the only player to be listed in all 5 positions. You also act like advanced stats were made for Lebron when they were there before he came to the league. You then mention how Jordan's accolades are better when Lebron should have won dpoy in 2013 and 2009. Lebron also has more longevity in defense and stayed at peak defense level for longer and his defense peak was better than Jordans. Lebron also should have won MVP in 2018 and 2005. Yes, Jordan has more rings, but Lebron made the finals many times where Jordan would not have made it and he played way more competition in the finals even though you want to argue that Jordan played more competition. You go off pure statistic numbers of all stars played and played with forgetting your own argument that Lebron played so much longer so he's had more all-star teammates which weren't all with him at once. Lebron played the best team of all time in multiple finals where Jordan had the second-best team of all time at his side. Jordan only led his team in scoring and steals in playoffs and finals where Lebron led every team he played for in every thing. Jordan has a terrible win percentage without Scottie and his team preformed basically the same when he left the league where Lebron's teams dropped all the way to the worst seed when left when before they were contenders with him. Lebron has played so much better competition than Jordan overall and only left his teams for what you say is "ring chasing" when in reality its because his other teams weren't helping him at all and were absolutely terrible. LeBron overall peaked higher than Jordan and you also dismiss his longevity likes its nothing when Lebron is still going strong at 38 years old consistently when Jordan was not doing nearly as well at Lebron's age. @skap_attack please give me some more bs reasons for why MJ is the goat so I can debunk them all.
Thank You! We not just talking about a debate in basketball. This stupid debate between MJ-Lebron is the most pathetic debate in professional sports history. The longer this BS debate goes on, the WORST it's gonna get for them clowns in new media.
This is not a debate, it's a slaughter in MJs favor. Where are all the LeFlop fans at? Any of you all care to do your own debate videos to defend The Frozen One? Didn't think so Soft serves 😅
Well, they have to generate recency-bias-based 'hot takes' every day to attract views. I have watched both players' entire careers, unlike many of these youngbloods, and there is no real comparison, especially taking into account today's soft era. MJ is the best player of all time.
Jordan would be on the TV on some random game and people who didn't even care about basketball would stop and watch in the street through a store window, on their way home from work, because they were seeing something amazing and they knew it. When he went off to play baseball, the NBA lost about half its over all viewership. Watching him play live, you felt privileged to be there, alive in that time and place to see that. It was like watching Mike Tyson in his prime. Jordan on the court would make the hair stand up on your arms watching him play. He was that good.
Yeah because that was the only game broadcasted lmao old ass dudes need to realize that’s why the all star game/dunk contest use to be better because of lack of everyday exposure
@@daking414 People don't randomly watch games now. Get your facts before you speak. The dunk contests sucks now because the best players lack creativity and many won't even participate once.
@@nathancook2852 think before I speak? So you’re tellin League Pass was around the whole time jordan and the earlier legends were? If I live in NYC I’m not able to see anything other than my market unless it was on NBC which lead to me only getting to see these other stars outside of my market play.
You know what’s crazy. That that image of Lebron holding his hands out with that look on his face of desperation and pain will always be what I see in my head when he’s ever brought up in a convo
During Jordan's career, I set aside anything and everything to watch him play Sunday afternoons on the NBA on NBC. I've never done this for any other sport except golf to watch Tiger Woods play the majors. Jordan was absolute must watch TV.
I had to buy a 10 game package just to watch MJ play because my local team wouldn't just sell the bulls game. Worth every penny. When he was announced, the place went bananas and hundreds of sporting events later i've still never felt that electricity.
The fact that this debate even exists shows the ineptitude of the sports media. LBJ has had a great career but Jordan’s was supernatural he defied physics he defied logic and was a straight up superhero on the floor .
To be clear, Mike is my number 1. But this is a borderline hit piece lol. Makes it seem like advanced analytics was invented for Lebron(not true), then uses them to show Mike’s better in those as well.
To be claer,we are sick of hearing people claim Lebron is better - when we know full well Michael would embarass him if they had ever met in their primes in the finals. With the whole world watching.
MJ is on GOAT Tier level 1 Level 2: Kareem and Lebron -- mostly b/c of longevity. Not too far behind on level 3: Magic, Bird and probably Curry, will be Jokic, Duncan, maybe KG-Kobe, and whoever else. etc.
LeBron on tier 2 is debatable. Where is Russell,Wilt,and Shaq??......Curry is an all time great,but his place in the top ten is debatable. Magic should be tier 2 easily. Hakeem should be mentioned if Curry is mentioned.
It’s an easy debate 6-0>4-6 While being the better overall player and having better accolades and stats added with that, Jordan is clearly superior. Edit: Oh and Jordan did more, against more competition, with less help, in less time.
@@lRockyIyou’re strawmanning my argument. You’re making it only about rings, which isn’t what I did. I mentioned rings, them as overall players, along with stats and accolades. Also, Jordan clears Bill.
Michael Jordan in 11 Full Seasons with Bulls: 6 championships 6 Finals MVPs 5 MVPs 10 Scoring Titles 9 First Team All-NBA Defense 1 DPOY award 3 Steals Champion 82 game seasons: 9 1 all star teammate Lebron and Durant in 37 full seasons combined: 6 Championships 6 Finals MVPs 5 MVPs 5 Scoring Titles 5 First Team All-NBA Defense O DPOY awards O Steals Champion 82 Game seasons combined: 2 14 combined all star teammates
I’m pushing 50, my older brother got me into NBA hoops in the early 80’s. I’ve still never seen anyone close to MJ. He was far better than everyone then or since then. Best scorer, best defensively, and the most clutch player I’ve ever seen. By far.
jordan is also 1-9 in the playoffs without pippen and 154-170 in the regular season without him as well. jordan has also never won a playoff series without a top 75 team, something lebron has done numerous times. lebron’s finals opponents have had much high net efficiency than jordan’s. lebron has the most 30 point triple doubles in finals history. lebron has played more hof players in the finals as well. he’s also faced 6 more mvp’s or former mvp’s than jordan in the finals. lebron is the first person to average a triple double in the finals. lebron is the first person to lead a team in literally every stat in a playoff series of any length. just for reference jordan in his last 3 finals wins had the stat line of: 31.1 PPG| 5.4 RPG| 4.2 APG| 43.4 FG%| and lebron in his last three finals LOSSES was: 34.6 PPG| 11.6 RPG| 9.5 APG| 47.5 FG%| jordan could never do what lebrons doing at 38 years old neither. lebron is a much much more well rounded player as well. it’s also hard to compare players who played in different eras as well. your video was great however i’m not hating on you at all keep up the good work.
(most) Jordan fans: YOU MUST BOW TO JORDAN AS THE GREAT!!!!!! Lebum, Mickey Mouse ring chaser (most) Lebron fans: Both are good, I just think LeBron is better
@@cheesehead52221is this a joke? Most lebron fans call him the goat no matter what. Some were calling him it after he lost to the nuggets in the first round 4-1
I would take Jordan over Lebron but it isn't as wide as a gulf as he makes it seem. One, since Lebron and Jordan commonly made the NBA finals you have to look at the teams that beat them in the NBA finals, Lebron faced stacked Golden State teams. Lebron also averaged more assists, more rebounds. Lebron also made more 3 pts shots per game while shooting a higher percentage. While Jordan led the league in scoring more times he only averaged about 3 pts more per game over his career, with Lebron playing at older ages, which will lower your average. I must be one of those "teenagers" who don't remember Jordan, oh wait, I am 51 and I am old enough not only to remember JOrdan but Dr. J and Kareem
Jordan already played at an older age than Lebron, on one leg and with broken ribs thanks to MWP. Dude was a shadow of himself physically and hadn't played pro sports in three full years. He pretty much had no time at all that first season to get into proper basketball shape because of his injuries. It would have been much different had he never stopped playing and been in basketball shape (and mind) going into those final two seasons. But he played those couple of years basically shooting mid range jumpers all game because his knees wouldn't allow him to do anything else. Those years absolutey killed his career stats, probably doing as much damage as the slow drop off would have done had he played the three seasons prior, so overall his stats would have looked pretty similar in terms of averages but obviously way better in terms of career totals. But where you're going wrong is by just looking at 'more rebounds, more assists' which is pretty much the least analytical way you could possibly compare the two. It's much better to look at advanced metrics which aggregate all that box score data to give an idea of the overall impact of a player each time they stepped foot on a court. It's here where MJ clearly leads LeBron, in every single one of these box score based metrics. The video references these, though he doesn't go into detail about the particular numbers, just how many times each led the league. In terms of actual numbers, Jordan leads LeBron in overall career averages for these metrics....in fact he leads all of NBA history. The gulf isn't massively wide as you correctly state but you can say that about all the top ten players of all time.....when you get to that point there's not a lot that separates them from a statistical standpoint, it's why they are ranked as high as they are and it's why these arguments come down to splitting hairs a lot of the time.
He made it to the finals playing much weaker competition in the east. That's why people tend to only talk about his finals appearances, the trip there wasn't noteworthy or memorable outside of 2018 which still had no title contenders out east. MJ also had an average 3 point shot for his era while lebron has a below average shot for his.
@@inefektI actually disagree with you on the point of Jordan clearly leading James in the advanced stats metrics because if you look at them they’re fairly even Jordan leads James in 3 categories player efficiency by .7, Box +/- by .4 points and usage % by 1.7% James leads Jordan in 3 categories as well Value over replacement by 20 , win shares by 41.1 and true shooting by 2.1 points So overall if we look at advanced metric they are even and the advanced stats Jordan does lead in its not by more then .9 points they have the same efficiency, they have a similar bpm and they have similar usage rates Now that’s just talking regular season advanced stats if we’re talking playoff advanced states they’re fairly even as well Lebron leads Jordan in 3 categories Value over replacement by 9.7, Win shares by 18.1 and True shooting by 2.5 Jordan leads James in Player efficiency by .7, Box +/- by 1.1 and usage % by 4.8 So overall even in the playoffs they show similar performances it truly comes down to what type of basketball player you want leading your team. If Jordan was placed in Lebrons shoes would he be able to do the same thing as lebron would he be able to go to the finals that many times would he be able to beat those teams lebron played against? The Spurs one of the best teams of that time with Tim Duncan, Tony parker, Ginobli and a young Kawhi Leonard, The Mavs which during that playoffs sweeped the lakers, beat Okc and the heat to win the playoffs and finals, and finally the Golden State Warriors possibly the greatest basketball team assembled so truthfully while people hate on Lebron for his loosing Championship record if you look at the teams he faced they where some of the best teams to exist. Went to the finals 10 times consecutively from 2011 -2018 faced some of the best teams ever id say the argument is just as close as people make it out. The reason why in a lot of peoples minds Lebron will never beat jordan is purely due the accolades what determines greatness in peoples eyes is impact and accomplishments which then turns into legacy , Jordans legacy in basketball overall is bigger then lebrons He has more accolades then lebron and his impact on basketball was bigger in the sense that he got his own shoe with Nike which went on to essentially revive the company and also just impact the American culture in general he “brought basketball to the world stage” and we could honestly go on. if we’re talking about the best basketball player you could choose Lebron or Jordan and you wouldn’t be wrong they both dominated both their respective eras in a once in a generation fashion but if we are talking the greatest then indeed it is Jordan because of what his Legacy means to the game of Basketball as a whole
He had to take 4 years off in 15 years, ofcourse MJ couldnt last 20 years straight. I would have paid good money to see him on any other roster besides the Bulls. Pretty funny he wouldnt even come back to CHI unless Phil Jackson remained coach, he was literally going to stay retired if Phil left. That is your GOAT? a guy who won in ONE system which happened to be the best roster in the league? L M A O.
There are a lot of hot takes that are simply on the wrong side of history [We don't have to imagine with Lebron - WE ARE ALL STILL WITNESSING GREATNESS] Lebron James is on his way to 41,000 points; 11,000 assists and 11,000 rebounds; The only man with a TRIPLE QUINTUPLE in NBA History; For context, no other player in NBA history has 27,000, 7,000, and 7,000 The comparison (statistically) really isn't that close As of March 20, 2019 -------------------------- LEBRON JAMES Career Points 32,543 Career Assists 8,606 Career Rebounds 8,844 Career Blocks 918 Field Goal Attempts 23,400 Free Throws Made 7,140 ---------------------------------------------------------- MICHAEL JORDAN Career Points 32,292 Career Assists 6,672 Career Rebounds 5,643 Career Blocks 893 Field Goal Attempts 24,537 Free Throws Made 7,327 ----------------------------------------------------------- LEBRON PASSED JORDAN IN 2019 AND HAS BEEN LAPPING HIM EVERY SINCE. And then there is this: Lebron has more player of the months all time than anyone in NBA history of the game Lebron has more player of the weeks all time that anyone in NBA history of the game More playoff points all time More regular season points all time More all star points all time More all star votes all time Most seasons averaging 25 ppg all time 4th all time in assists Most playoff assists and steals all time Most all NBA appearances all time When you say or hear CHASE DOWN BLOCK....who do you think of. Lebron's body holding up to possibly play with his sons is a strength/positive Jordan retiring multiple times is NOT a strength/positive. Longevity is not a weakness - it is a sign of strength.
I’ve never missed a player like I’ve missed watching MJ. It was so much fun and I’m so grateful to have been able to watch him. MJ did the things you always imagined as a kid by yourself shooting around - he was the physical embodiment of your childhood fantasies. By contrast, I can’t wait for Lebron to leave. I’m so sick of everything about him - his ego, his sycophantic commentators like Nick Wrong, and the horrible decisions the Lakers have to make because he’s on the floor. Not to mention what a complete baby he is. It is time for him to go…
Yeah, because MJ had no ego, no commentators gushing over him, and never acted like a spoiled brat himself, like storming out of practice because he didn't think that a scrimmage game had the right score.
@@DanTarrant1 just like MJ was better than LJ in basketball he was (and is) also better at media relations. Stayed out of politics, never said stupid crap like he was the goat, acknowledged other players, etc. He hasn’t even ripped Pippen publicly. MJ’s just more of a class act.
I suspect something...yes. But things have to be proven. Otherwise, he's just a freak of nature. The way he is playing RIGHT NOW, is not something I thought possible period. Then again, who thought that anyone could make 77 3-pointers in a row in practice like Steph?? So, at some point, you have to admit the possibilities.
How a man that lost as many finals as Jordan won... and people think he's even in the conversation is beyond me. Yea he has more totals... so does Karl Malone. MJ is the 🐐
@@averageproblem the window is closed. He would have had to be as dominant as Jordan was. As great as LeBron is he simply was not. It's not just the 6 for 6 rings. It's the individual accolades too. Look at his basketball reference... count all the bold and italicized numbers, both standard and advanced, where he lead the league. He dominated. Now compare that to LeBron's. It's not close.
@@matthewt8214 this my counter argument.:czcams.com/video/IVdJ6Z9jluc/video.html&pp=ygUQZ29hdCBkZWJhdGUganhteQ%3D%3D People act like MJ will forever be the GOAT and never can be beaten. With players getting better every year, eventually someone is going to be a clear-cut GOAT and people will still be like "He's not even close to MJ" There are so many other parts to being great than stats. Stats just show who's a better player, and also gives a plus to the accolades collected.
@@averageproblem I completely disagree. With the game becoming more advanced, training and load management etc, at best it's going to muddy the water. Look at baseball. Babe Ruth isn't the clear cut goat, some say it's Barry Bonds who played recently. But as the game has advanced you see fewer players playing the full season, pitching complete games etc. There's less opportunity with all the focus on staying healthy
@@matthewt8214 Jokic won MVP this year (I'm ignoring Embiid's MVP because Kendrick Perkins is a bitch for taking his deserved MVP) Won the championship, all while only playing 69 games this season. Do you really need to play that many games if your team is built really well that it still wins without their best player? Don't get me wrong, they aren't the same without Jokic, considering the win shares he has over his career. My definition of greatness is the amount of accolades a player receives, and how dominant a player can be during that time. MJ played only 13 seasons. Veterans who are nowhere close as good as MJ played way longer. In that time he garnered more accolades than lebron did in 20. Of course I consider lebron to have been sold by his teammates a couple times throughout his career, and he also made the terrible move of trying to be GM. (How does a guy who can memorize the whole playbook and not be able to make sensible trades?) Lebron also had to play against one of the best teams assembled next to MJ's team, and then had to play them again with KD, but somehow won coming from a 3-1 deficit. Lebron also came into a team not willing to at least try to build around him, carrying his team to the finals with a bunch of scrubs, getting swept in no time. MJ got drafted to a team ready to build around him and gathered pieces that helped MJ be the greatest he could be. I think Lebron would've stayed with the Cavs if they did a better job building around him, he could've had a much better career than he has now. But of course, this debate is stupid because it all comes down to someone's opinion of greatness. That's why I believe the goat debate will never end with the majority with MJ, the minority with Lebron, and the last 5% with anyone but MJ or Lebron (for now)
MJ leading the league in scoring 10 seasons in a row is mind-boggling. Especially when you consider Wilt Chamberlain only had 7 total in his career. Also, for a majority of Lebrons career, the eastern conference was WEAK AF. There was that short run by the Celtics when they had their big 3 but that was about it. After Lebron went to Miami, there was no one in the Eastern conference to contend with. Also loved the wrap-up at the end about longevity being a minuscule thing when it comes to greatness. Joe Flacco having more passing yards than Joe Montana is hilarious though.
MJ didn’t win 10 scoring titles in a row. In Mj’s second season the 30 win bulls team made the playoffs yet LbJ’s east was weak. And we can’t compare two different sports
If LeBron was in the western conference those years I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been in so many finals. I think the bulls with Rose gave em a bit of a challenge a year or two plus Celtics like you mentioned and that's about it.
@@frankhtlllful DRose could have caused serious problems for LBJ if he had stayed healthy. That 2012 Bulls team was way better than the 2011 one which got to the ECF - still hurts to watch DRose highlights.
@@AntoineSMDPuscYou 🤡. Michael Jordan 👉🏾 WHEN STARTING A SEASON HAS WON 10 CONSECUTIVE SCORING TITLES BOZO. David Robinson scoring title Jordan was RETIRED, Shaq 1995 Scoring Title Jordan played 17 Games that season in baseball shape, he didn't even qualify for the PPG list Bozo. When Jordan played and ended a full season he won 10 scoring titles consecutively. Jordan in 11½ seasons in Chicago has accomplished more than anyone in NBA History 👉🏾 WINNING & ACCOLADES Hold more weight than stats 👉🏾 THAT'S WHY THE MAN SAID JOE FLACCO HAS MORE YARDS THAN JOE MONTANA BOZO THE 🤡.
@@crangusmcbasketball2931 the greats always stay with one team Jordan Kobe magic Russell bird Duncan curry all successfully created a dynasty with the team that drafted them. Lebron never created a dynasty in Cleveland so he left like a female dog
I just discovered this channel, and I’ve watched every video I can’t believe how much the media hid from me as a casual fan of the game, keep up the good work dawg 💯
When you consider Jordan won 6 finals out of 13 full seasons compared to LeBron’s 4 of 20 it makes the argument even stronger. 46% vs 20% means Jordan won the NBA championship 2.3x more efficiently than LeBron.
When you really take everything into account….IT ISNT CLOSE 😂. Really, not sure how this became a conversation. The battle for 2 all time is actually fierce. And like 5-8 guys have claim for that spot.
lol but lebron has made it to the finals 50% of the time. Jordan lost to the east because in the 90s the east was better than the west. Jordan lost more in the playoffs because that’s where his competition was when he got to the finals it was a cake walk. in the 00’s,10’s the west has been better than the east so lebron would walk through the playoffs to lose to the better team coming out of the west not to mention 5 of his 6 losses are against 2 of the top 5 teams of all time in the spurs and the warriors. and 2 of his finals losses he was in mvp conversations because of how well he played even though the team lost. Jordan fans are so delusional. You guys talk about Jordan like you brag about how good you were as your high schools starting qb. You weren’t that good then and remember it with nostalgia same way you guys talk about Jordan. If they both played in today’s league Jordan would be a better scorer and lebron would be a better all around player. Simple as that. You wouldn’t compare them because they dont play the same way. Lebron is the greatest overall basketball player of all time. Jordan is the best scorer and champion ever. They are different players they both goats in their own right but dont you dare try to tell me that Jordan is a better overall basketball player than a player who has been top 5 in almost every main statistical category for 20 years in this league. When Jordan was only a scorer with a great team around him to let him be a scorer
He's truly 1 of the very few on gems youtube.. even the rest of "truth tellers" mostly have this bum in their top 5 still JUST in case😂so they don't get labeled a "total hater" and in future could get big sponsors and sht SMH
Many thanks for the kind words, guys. I appreciate it, and I appreciate you tuning in! And I will never sell out 😂. I will continue to bust this bum up all over this platform 🙏 ❤️
@@skap_attack He's got a whole political party, 10s mills of Letrolls and 2 dozens of LeMedia members behind him, but "the light always shines inside darkness", so we'll win anyway! Ty again.
This is by far the most comprehensive video that completely annihilates this "debate." The fact that MJ dwarfs LeBron even in advanced analytics says a lot, especially considering that these analytics were designed in part to diminish the great 90s players. It's also crazy how people just allow LeBron to skip past Kobe aka Diet MJ based on nothing more than empty stats. That Frank Gore/Barry Sanders comparison was a perfect example of how stats without context are for fools. Your videos never miss, and this one is my fav to date!
Thank you!! I appreciate the kind words and for your continual support and viewership 🙏🙏 Fundamentally, the entire line of reasoning on Lebron annoys the hell out of me. Just as you said: 1) the implication that Jordan v Lebron is even a debate and 2) that it’s “not close” between Kobe and Lebron. The only thing that isn’t close, never was and never will be is Jordan v Lebron.
How many dynasty teams did Jordan face? Your really think the skill level back then is comparable to know? I’m not discrediting certain great players of the 90s but the parity between teams then and teams now is incomparable. Why do we not put bill Russell ahead of Jordan? He got a 7peat and 2 more as player coach? It’s because we don’t acknowledge the skill levels of players/teams in that era? A little hypocritical don’t you thing? Get back at me, down to have a respectable debate. Until then it’s not even close King James >Jordan
@@PumpkinEscobar92 I think some put Russell a head of Jordan and I understand the reasoning. I personally have Russell on the Mount Rushmore. Lebron’s playoff opponents were not as good as you think. Some of the reason there were no other dynasty level teams when Jordan played was because of him. He didn’t allow others to win unlike Lebron. Jordan came up in the 80s that was STACKED. Bird Celtics and Magic Lakers. Bad boy pistons. More competitive and too heavy than any time Lebron ever played in. I’m working on an EXTENSIVE piece on what all time great has the BEST playoff resume. I’m deep into researching it and let me assure you, it’s DEFINITELY not Lebron lol.
@skap_attack He never beat Boston and he waited for the decline of the Pistons and Lakers to win his first Championship, at their peak Jordan couldn't get it done
@@shazmagoon right. BUT he did get it done 6 times in essentially 12 years. Lebron has played 19 years of healthy full seasons compared to 12 of Jordan and he’s got it done 4 times. AND Lebron has had way more help. In fact he just has to jump team to team to get more and more help. Still has failed substantially more than he’s succeeded. In fact Kobe played harder comp with less supporting casts and won more in less time. I’ve seen his entire career and for the life of me I can figure out why Lebron is held in such high regards.
The thing that will always keep LeBron out of the GOAT conversation were his days in Miami. He had the 3rd best player in the league, DWade, one of the best big men, Chris Bosh, and the 2nd greatest shooter ever, Ray Allen. He proclaimed he would win 7 championships, and shat the bed in 2011 and lost to a team of 40 year olds in 2014. He got a taste of his own medicine by losing to the Steph & KD Warriors twice.
this some bs u talking right here. today's nba is much thougher than how it was back then. sure mj is good, but he would be no where near a 50 points average. 25 at most. also defensive rules back then didn't allow much defensive plays so ur argument is absolute trash. stop glazing fr
Winning championships are a team accomplishment. MJ only really had to do was score the basketball and play defense in which came in an era where he didn’t have to worry about spacing and provided the luxury of hand-checking. He had everyone else do the other stuff for him. In 2016 Bron led both teams in all 5 major statistical categories. He had to be an elite scorer, defender, playmaker and rebounder for the Cavs to upset the Warriors. If you place any of the championship Bulls teams MJ wouldn’t have to worry about guarding Curry because he had people do that for him. He didn’t have to worry about blocking shots and rebounding the ball because he had people to do that for him. It’s a paradox really. Bron doing all 5 things at a high level was more impressive than MJ only scoring a ton in the finals.
Jordan guarded the best perimeter player every damn night. Just shows you never watched the GOAT play. "All he had to do was score", who the hell else was gonna score. Pippen ave 16 for his career, a little better when he played with Jordan, Kukoc 14 a game, Grant 11, that was it. And he didn't have all 3 of those guys his entire career. Let's be generous and say Jordan's next 3 tops scorers get 45 a night. LeFlop had Wade and Bosh, those two alone get 45 a night... And LeFlop's cast gets better than Jordan's the deeper you go...
Also, if you look at star power. In Jordan's day people were truly in awe of his presence, if he was on TV the audience was going crazy, everyone knew this is a really special athlete. Jordan was well-spoken and advocated for good causes, not earning credit for his legacy, but using his star power for something positive. Lebron is a shadow of Jordan's aura and mystique.
Skap I found your page just 2 weeks ago and just love your content. The way you tell the truth about LeFraud Shames is priceless. On another note I know everyone does this but I would love to see you do a video breaking down your 10 ten NBA players in history in a two part series with explanation. Keep up the good work sir!
Out of all honesty, over 1/4 of the stats you mentioned I did not even know about. Those that still say that Leflop played in a tougher league, you’re wrong. In the league Jordan played in, DEFENSE WAS ACTUALLY A THING. While on the other hand, Leflop is playing in an era where defense practically is not a thing anymore. This year’s all star game proved it too, (I know this video was posted before then) where the east scored 211 points, once again because of defense not being a thing anymore. This debate was stupid to begin with.
Ill never forget when MJ came back to play again. The whole world was so excited like Ive never seen before. It didnt even matter who he played for, we just wanted to see the magic again.
@@stephanebouvier1304 lebron is DEFINITELY in the debate. You may not have him as the goat and that’s fine, but if he’s not 1, he’s top 2 all time and if you deny that you’re just hating
@@Robss_listen. I don't know the entire history of basketball. I have never seen play wilt or Julius erving or baylor or Jerry west or maravich or many others. But i saw Jordan and lebron play a lot of time and there's no debate between them. It's even pathetic and ridiculous to claim to have a debate on this. It's not close, lebron is far from Jordan. But i don't know if Jordan was better than every other basketball player in history. I don't know if Jordan is number one. And I don't know if lebron is number 2. To be honest, for example, i prefer magic or bird to lebron but i don't know if they were better or not, it's another debate. What do you know about the history of basketball? How old are you? What have you seen?
@@stephanebouvier1304 it’s funny how you say that it’s not even a debate (also admitting you don’t know a lot about basketball) but multiple NBA players and coaches have lebron as their goat. Excuse me but I’m valuing more the opinions of some of the best basketball players on the planet rather than yours.
I know people are going to say that Skap Attack is a hater when it comes to Lebron but, he's just pointing out the facts. 6 is greater than 4. Thanks for another great video!
Any fan who really knows NBA Basketball from the 1980's and 1990's, finds out very quickly that Michael Jordan is by-far-and-away the greatest athlete of them all. Watching LeBron and the Lakers might be okay in 2023/24. But, compared to MJ and the Bulls from 1987/88 was way more exciting. It's boring watching 3-pointers after 3-pointers compared to Michael who was much more creative and earns his 3 points with a dunk and the foul.
@@12avchrhd3Chum, re-read your answer and be more sincere please. MJ has the highest points per game in NBA History - 30.1 ppg & 33.4 in the playoffs. He also has won the Scoring Title 10 times and LeBron won the same Award just one time. Why are you saying he can't shoot?
@@12avchrhd3 The main reason he doesn't shoot 3's is he grew up playing basketball when there wasnt a 3-point line. I don't know how you can blame that on him.
And it’s also been said before: How can LeBron be the GOAT when he can’t even measure up to Kareem Abdul Jabar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird or even Magic Johnson, all who would have danced circles around LeBron James? Have you seen their films? These guys were intense and had fire in their eyes. I’m old enough to have seen them all play and their level of intensity was way higher than LeBron has ever displayed. C’mon, man. We all have our own opinions, but in my book LeBron doesn’t even crack the top 5.
Michael Jeffrey Jordan can do what every other basketball player can do. But no other basketball player can do what Michael Jordan can do. Thank you, scap attack You are definitely a basketball savant🐐🐐23👏👏👏🔥🔥🔥🔥🎯
This is the best GOAT video I’ve seen - not the most comprehensive, but the best, nonetheless. I’d like to see a video comparing MJ to Bill Russell, as well. He only got a few seconds in this one.
Direct quote from an article on basketball network website Referencing hand checking . “The rule was more popular than ever during the 90s Chicago Bulls regime when Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen dominated the perimeter. But eventually, the league removed the rule when Jordan retired because of the lack of perimeter production when the legend took off in 2004 And since the hand check rule was removed, the offense started benefiting for obvious reasons. The NBA wanted the same production Jordan provided in the perimeter, so they hoped that removing the hand-checking rule would do just that. And true enough, perimeter dominant players like Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, etc., were able to take over the league. “
![[Vowel]물고기는 물에서 살아야 해🐟🤣Fish have to live in the water #funny](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3G9MH063Cx4/mqdefault.jpg)
MJ literally retired in his PRIME at 30. The best statistical years for NBA players. Came back 3peated again. No one has ever owned a decade of sports like MJ.
Amen, and that alone made him the GOAT!
Bron has owned decades ….Stop it!! and I’m not even a Bron fan
@@kevinjohnson963Which ones??
@@johnnyblaze9206 the last fckn 20 yrs
@@kevinjohnson963 Actually he shared each decade played with other players, many players have gotten rings on his watch. No need to lie kid, you were better off staying silent.
LeBron's another type of Goat... Going Onto Another Team.
Ima use this😭😭😭
"Given Only All-Star Teams"
Geek of all time
😂😂😂
Damn
Reminds me of when my sister tried to claim Beyoncé had eclipsed Michael Jackson. 😂 gotta be the stupidest thing I ever heard
Lmao 💀
10 straight scoring title... an unheard of accomplishment in all of sports. He only has 6 MVPs because the voters felt like they wanted to give it someone else. He should have at least 8 MVPs.
Same goes for Bron. Out here giving it to fuckin Drose and 2 players at his position over him in Kawhi and KD
True, bro. He was defintely so fucking hardly robbed in 1990, and akso has been robbed in 93 and 97.
1990 though in particular is unheard of.
bron and mj both were robbed of some mvps the voter fatigue is wack
@@thegipper1215lebron getting stats playing alongside two top 10 players and losing deserved the mvp over drose who had no allstars and carried his team? You’re crazy
@@dominiquewilson 💀those drose teams for defensive juggernauts outside of DRose, literally THE best defensive team that year
Skap Attack should be looking over his shoulder for the authorities, because the things he has done to Lebron’s “legacy” might be illegal in some states. Another great video.
😂😂😂 thank you!! You KNOW that means a lot to me 😉. And many thanks for continuing to tune in 🙏
if u think jordan is better than lebron , i think the same to , jordan is better , its fact , but having lebron not top 2 its phenomenal, lebron was the best player in the 4 finals he won , he is a 4 time mvp and and was 14 time in the top 5 in mvp voting . Also i think lebron has more competition in the fi als , he faced the warriors 4 time lost 3 time and won 1 time in 2016 , i believe that this ring is better than 2 rings combined . I dont understand , lebron faced though competition too , the piston, the big 3 celtics many time .
😂😊😅
@@SamyHasnaoui-ol6okthat's your opinion...as terribly wrong as it is.
Anything happens to my brother (God forbid-God forbid) oh we're gonna have a riot and burn LeAdam Silver DOWN!!!✊🏽
Thinking LeBron is the 🐐 is like believing pigs can fly. 🐷 🐖
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
I saw one fly the other day and he looked just like Skip Bayless. A typical so-called white person.
🤨 bruh no one cares what you think.
If you hate Chuck, just say you hate Chuck
Dude what are you talking about??!! We are actually much closer to see pigs fly than LeBum Floper becoming the GOAT.
@@chauvintookaknee4blm268 People that don't care don't comment. Get off my dill pickle.
Accolades and stats aside, there was an air about Jordan that was simply unmatched. You felt his presence through the screen and had your eyes glued on him the entire time watching a game. He not only owned basketball, but seemingly all of the sporting world while he played.
zip up his pants when u done lil bro 😂😂
You mean, Air Jordan?
lebron so much better 😭😭 not even a question plays in a harder league no question
amen
@@Fatty723 LeFlop played in the Leastern conference. It is by all measures the weakest the Eastern conference has every been. It was literally called the "Leastern Conference" for a reason. Most years 10 of the 15 All NBA guys were in the West, and LeFlop had Wade, on of the few East representatives, With him. He had another all star in Bosh there were 41 50 win teams in the west, 10 60 win teams, and a 73 win team in the West, while LeFlop had to "contend" with 18 50 win teams (excluding the ones he was on) in the Least. There were seasons where 4 teams in the west were better than anything LeFlop would face in the Least. There were seasons where there were 7 50 win teams in the west because the least was so bad.
Jordan is a cultural icon. People buy Jordan's like he never retired!!!
The biggest non-statistical factor for me, watching both players play over their eras, was that when the Bulls were chasing their titles, you just knew they weren't going to lose when it mattered. It was a sickening feeling, and I always found myself rooting for the underdog, but you always knew when Jordan controlled a game, and that was that. For LeBron you always found yourself considering broader factors, and although he's always dominant for sure, the games themselves always felt more fragile and undetermined. Jordan was just a force of will, and that's coming from a self proclaimed "hater" of the Bulls over their era.
I always felt like "on paper" LeBron should be physically more gifted for basketball, being bigger and stronger. But I feel he lacks that ruthless drive to compete to the point of being an asshole to everyone, both teammates and rivals. You can see it in "the last dance" when he calls Pippen "egotistical" bc he wanted to renegotiate his contract and was causing some trouble in the company. WHILE MJ WAS SWIMMING IN MONEY ALREADY!! I think LeBron would make a great friend but is not competitive to the level Jordan was
Great comment! I was actually a Chicago guy and remember feeling that if we were going into the fourth quarter loosing by less than 10, it was basically a guaranteed win! Jordan would make sure of it.
@@kleitosaliagas5668 thanks! Ironically I think Jordan created the culture by which LeBron could be deemed lesser i.e. individual over team, business not sport, control the wider personal brand etc. Put LeBron as a basketball player pre-Jordan and it'd be a different conversation I think. I do find LeBrons basketball IQ fascinating though, his situational memory/instinct is as impressive as anything else...Jordan was a relatively blunt basketball player in comparison, for better or worse.
did you feel this way in the 9 years he didnt do anything?
@@user-sn2cx7fb5w there were mever 9 years where he didn't do anything, but yes absolutely! Down less than 10, going into the fourth, especially at home, in the late 80s (which I assume is when you are talking about when you say "didn't do anything") I totally thought the game was in the bag for us.
If you watched MJ play, and lived through that era of basketball, this was never a debate for you. They are not even comparable.
Yeah everyone thinks their childhood athletes are better it’s nostalgia affect
@@AGaboonViperIsUnderYourBed 4 or 5 different ocasions I was shooting hoops these past 6 months and some kids were there playing, ages 8-12 and I asked them who is the bball goat. everytime the very quick and unanimous answer was MJ. it's my small sample, but still... it means something.
@@WideHarryCockno they don’t. My favorite baseball player of all time is Ken Griffey Jr. But I know Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Ted Williams and at least several others are better than Griffey was. Same with football. Barry Sanders is my all time favorite running back and football player of all time. But I know Jim Brown and Walter Payton are better.
It’s called common sense.
@@AGaboonViperIsUnderYourBedcommon fucking sense says the man who is a better all around player would be the best player of all time. Jordan is not only a less basketball player but less of a person.
Man as someone who grew up in the Chicago region in the 90s it was crazy…..
Lebron has no killer instinct
Jordan’s greatness cannot be overstated, including the impact he had on the game itself. Jordan single-handedly internationalised interests in basketball, there were courts/ outdoor hoops going up all over UK because of the interest he generated around what previously was mainly a US-based sport, he’s still selling millions of sports gear with his name on it decades after he retired from playing. The moves and fluidity to the game he introduced influenced countless baby-Jordan wannabes 😊 he is in a league entirely on his own. The only person I would allow to come close to challenging is Kareem (a rare discussion I would allow when generous), theres a pretty huge drop off after that when talking about the GOAT of BBall.
Jordan was 9 times all defensive first at the same time as scoring champ. That really shows how much of a beast he was on both ends.
Also steals champ at the same time as scoring champ.
Something that never gets mentioned. Jordan is top 5 in both totals and per game averages in both scoring and steals. Some players maybe both for one stat but not 2.
Jordan took it to another level in the finals especially the first 3.
91-- average 11.4 assists per game highest for anyone not Magic.
92 - - average an impressive 42% for 3s and in game 1 shot six 3s in a half which was a record for 18 years until Ray Allen the only person to shoot more in a half
93-- average 41 points per game highest ever.
Jordan has a higher peak which LeBron has not surpassed
Then you add in the Fact that he is the most CLUTCH player ever, and it's not even Fair!!! lol!!!
Fun fact....
In 1992, Jordan made more 3-pointers than the entire Blazers team in the NBA Finals
Jordan stepped up above and beyond when the biggest prize was on the line. That is the mark of a true champion.
@@MasterSpade
And many other stars in Lebron's era made multiple first team all defense teams more than him
@@thepubknight6144 -- That's the thing, his Stans love to claim that lebron was a better Defensive player than Jordan... LOL!!! But Reality says that lebron wasn't even better than the players in his own time!! Lebron HOmers Hate Facts.
The "advanced analytics" push was a way to demean Kobe and stop the debate between Lebron and Kobe but it back fired when they went back to Lebron vs MJ debates. MJ not only is the greater player, he was also the most efficient player and that's including his two wizards seasons.
There is no debate between LeBron and Kobe lol.
LBJ literally has a higher FG %, 3 PT % and TS%, MJ definitely more efficient though! lol casual MJ glazers
@@phillyphan1346 When you're built like a bulldozer in an age where defense and real centers don't exist, when more often than not the refs look away to your advantage and when 75% of your shots are bulldozered within 10 feet of the basket, you better have a higher field goal %.
@@Mamba-Kush nah don't feed into the LeBron stans dumbass logic. MJ has the highest career PER
@@phillyphan1346 lol you know free throw % matters too??? Notice your bum ass left that off. Their fg, 3p and TS is super close but their ft% isn't. It all is included. MJ career PER is highest of ALL PLAYERS ALL TIME including your Kyang
These videos are good for those who are too young to have watched Jordan play. Those who saw Jordan play will never have any doubt.
I watched both play , Jordan was great but u Jordan lovers need to face facts , rings aren't all that matters , LeBron has accomplished a lot more with almost no other star players around him except for now having Anthony Davis , LeBron had guys that couldn't wait to play with him because for a stretch of time they knew they'd either win the finals or get there , plus please remind me who the all time leading scorer is now? I forgot LOL oh wait it's LeBron right ?
@@jeffsmith8204 first of all, I never said that Jordan is better because of the rings. Second, my favourite player is Olajuwon, therefore you can take your "u Jordan lovers and stick it. Third (and here is where I doubt you saw them both play) are you 15? Because you know, LeBron played with Dwyane Wade, and he was the one to sail ship and join other stars. Therefoe, you could have saved your time and shut up
@@elnardowebster2842 im 42 so yeah I've seen them both play LoL, I will never shut up sir so don't waste your time even mentioning that HAHA , I'm wondering where the age 15 came from though haha that was so random
@jeffsmith8204 bro lebron has had more help than jordan ever had its complete bs wade Kyrie wtf are u talking about u bronsexuals say some of the dumbest shit ever its mind boggling how u people actually think this way
@@jeffsmith8204 its like you didnt even watch the video. anyone can play a sport longer and get more stats. doesnt matter if you play a sport for 30 years if you werent good for all 30 years
10 Straight Scoring Titles > 40k Points
LeBron vs Jordan was never really a debate in the first place if you take a look at all of Jordans success wins accomplishments and the fact that he had such an enormous cultural impact on the game of basketball all over the world. It's obviously clear that Jordan is the much better player LeBron is a great player in his own way and I'll give him credit for what he's done but he'll never surpass MJ
What did lebron do that change the game? Player empowerment is the worst the thing that's happened to the league. I was all for it upon a time, but it's gotten out of control.
@@maxb4318thank you. If anything he left the game worse then when he entered it
I don’t really respect anything about Lebron other than his raw athleticism. He’s cheated the game and himself in my opinion. That’s why he will never be Mount Rushmore in my opinion.
@@skap_attack That's fair to say LeBron did have to switch teams everytime the team he was on wasn't good enough to win a championship anymore because he likes to chase titles and he has no sense of loyalty like players in the past
@@skap_attackhis greatest legacy is the implementation of LeGay anti flop rule.
man... out of all your vids on this subject this one I feel has the most ruthlessly accurate laid out data driven info dump on the two men put in a way that anybody who'd even attempt to argue against it just looks straight up stupid... THIS is the type video you need to shut all arguments about this down COMPLETELY... i'm archiving this right now for empirical evidence & historical documentary LMAO.......
the only stat you did miss though was the 3 straight stat... where Jeff never lost 3 straight games regular season or playoffs for 8 yrs during the 90's....
Might wanna change that ..
Only 1 MAN he's covering in this video..
Calling LeBron a man is trully an insult to ACTUAL MEN.
@@Lizards_Loungeagreed! Can't call a diva queen a "MAN."
@@trigun442 thanks man, It scares me there's this many lost kids looking up to this big baby.
Excellent video. Facts
we done with the 90's 😂
Sheep 🐑 all copying each others comments
The debate starts and ends with Lebron getting shutdown in a finals by JJ Barea. If you think that a player comparable to Barea would ever shut down MJ in a finals, you are nuts.
It shouldn't even started at the beginning only because his 2007 performance. That season not even better than 1987 Jordan
8 points in a Finals game 😂😂😂. The audacity to compare him to Jordan.
JJ barea was better than Jordan’s competition
The conversation pro-Jordan people never want to have@@veracity5977
lebron is the goat. mj never led the bulls to the finals before pippen. can you tell me who was the clevelands roster in 2007 finals? lebron took a trash team to the finals at 23 years old. mj would never
As a Heat fan I’m grateful for the two titles that LeBron brought us. And obviously as a Heat fan I have no real love for Michael Jordan who would regularly beat the crap out of us. But it’s undeniable that Jordan is the greatest player ever. We’ve never seen that combination of ruthless scorer and lock down defender. Kobe had a run where he was a great two way player. I was always proud of Wade for being a pretty decent defender as well as scorer. And South Beach Bron was a truly elite defender most of the time. But what Jordan did is unthinkable now. Dropping 40-50 on you with almost no threes and then locking down your best perimeter player. Doing this every night for 82 games with no “load management.” LeBron always gets called a freak athlete but Jordan really was that.
That’s a complete and total winning take right there. Kobe was as close as it gets. Averaging 29 per game for a decade while making 9 all nba team selections. But Kobe never reached the levels Jordan did. No one likely ever will.
LeBron clears lmao people wanna say load management and how Jordan played all games are the same people who say LeBron playing 20 seasons is why he has all these accolades it doesn’t make sense lmao
As a Bulls fan, I have no love for the Heat, but I respect 'Zo and Hardaway.
@@Dolla8playing 82 game a season and playing 20 years have nothing to do with each other. The straws the LBJ fans grasp at is ridiculous.
Lebron plays in a much softer league with relaxed assist rules, and 1’s etc. in this defensively weaker league, Lebron couldn’t last 82 games a season. In an easier to score league, and with 3’s, Lebron still couldn’t beat MJ’s season scoring titles. LBJ can’t stand up to MJ’s defensive titles/ability. Those are both facts.
Because of his load managing, and playing in a soft league, he has played 20 years and due to longevity, he finally passed MJ.
Not the goat. He is a bad shooter, bad defender, flops, not loyal to teammates, makes excuses for his many losses that he caused and on and on.
Look up in the Miami stadium, and you will see a 23 jersey of MICHAEL JORDAN in the rafters. Why is that? MIAMI LOVED JORDAN~!
I actually agree with the fact that MJ is the GOAT, but there were some inaccuracies that bothered me:
1. Saying that advanced analytics were made up for the purpose of Bron propoganda is one of the wildest nba takes I’ve ever heard, and just isn’t true
2. Ok, yes MJ played against some all-time greats, but lebron lost his titles to the 2014 spurs, and warriors in 2017 and 2018. All 3 of these rosters have an actual argument for the greatest rosters of all time (granted there’s no excuse for that 2011 dirk choke).
3. Let’s not pretend MJ didn’t have a BALLER supporting cast, I mean a top 30 player all time in Scottie pippen, the greatest rebounder and several time DPOY winner Dennis Rodman, several time all-defense Horace grant, one of the most accurate shooters in his era in Steve Kerr. I’m not saying that Lebron hasn’t played with his fair share of superstars, but you make it sound like Jordan god-carried them to three rings when in reality he had one of the best supporting casts ever.
Again: I AGREE that Jordan is the GOAT. If you take longevity out of the picture, damn near every metric shows Jordan was just better at the peak of his powers than Lebron ever was. I just thought some of your arguments were a bit ridiculous.
Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't know much about the MJ - Lebron goat argument before and this video was very informative, but it seemed very sensationalized.
Yea, this is honestly a pretty terrible video to watch if you want to learn about the goat debate. If you want a video roughly this length that is quite frankly more unbiased and entertaining than this one I’d recommend jxmmyhighroller’s “The Harsh truth about the goat debate” video. That’ll give you a much better idea of what is actually going on (also I just love jxmmyhighroller)
@@atlafan7364 Just watched it. Now THAT was a good video.
As a lebron fan I actually respect you because you’re not blocking out things that lebron has done
This video is one of the most emotionally derived pieces of bullshit on the GOAT debate. It belongs more in some Facebook group than in any forum for actual serious discussion. I also say this as someone who believes Jordan is the GOAT
Watch a full 90’s basketball game brueh shi is so wack 😭
LeBron the goat fr
@@arrodisbrokegoat at flopping
@@hitmanagent871flopping the ball into the basket
@@novathepug6692 No, flopping as in over exaggerating a contact in order to draw a foul. In other words, lebron is a soft drama queen
@@hitmanagent871 never seen sum1 score through contact like LeBron does. u do not know ball.
Sad that a video even needs to be made about this topic. Great job. Much appreciated.
It is sad these videos even need to be made. Honestly I only started making them because of all of the comments I was seeing on my other videos lol. Shocked at how many people think this is a conversation
Thanks for this. Sometimes I feel like I’m in an alternate universe where LeBron and MJ are always spoken of in the same breath. Never made sense to me. It is so ridiculous. Again, thank you.
I honestly feel bad for LeBrons horrible media partners and clutch sports guys who plants the narrative that he is the GoAT 🐐…instead of celebrating that Lebron is one of the greatest ever but firmly behind Jordan and possible magic, Kobe, Kareem….they have all the networks youtube and every other outlet talking about his weeknesses and that he’s not Jordan?
As someone who was growing up in the 90s in the Chicagoland area…..man the vibe was just so crazy with Jordan.
Jordan had a better peak but Lebron has proven better durability and sustained excellence so it depends on your criteria for who the best basketball player is.
Same people call Eminem the G.O.A.T. Call Lebron the GOAT...because its the "thing".... real heads know different
@@pretendphilosopher2300did you watch the video? There’s no debate
Great video! It truly is not even close. With more opportunity, Lebron accomplished substantially less. There is an entire HOF career separating them. This absurd debate should have never started.
When you calculate it in your mind it's true indeed :2 titles, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP, 1 DPOY (basically Hakeem's resume in a nutshell even though I think he has 2DPOYs)
LeBron had
-more help (all stars, 3 point shooters, well rounded role players, etc)
-more athletic (bigger, stronger, more durable and less injury prone)
-played WAY longer
-played with more teams
-improved sports medicine and training
-easier to score in an era of fairly weak defense and lots of flopping
-Rarely gets calls against him
-played in a pretty weak east for much of his career.
-got whatever the hell he wanted for the most part (LeGM).
How the hell is he LESS accomplished if he's "better" than Jordan...? The math ain't mathing...!!!
Absolutely astonishing and unbelievable that this somehow became a conversation. I still am at a complete loss whenever I see people making a case for Lebron over Jordan. Quite frankly I don’t even have Lebron top 5.
@@skap_attack
They don't even have the I.Q. capacity to do any retort videos to defend LeFlop.
They just go to every video that tells the truth, then proceed to shed tears all over it
@@skap_attackthen your brain dead then
This generation is soft Jordan is the Goat LeBron is weak
11 minute yap session💀
Hello, LeBron, or any ESPN commentator
Is that all u hear you need to get your ears fixed up lebron fan boy that’s not normal 💀
@@IGHT.1231.o 😂😭🤣😂😭
@@Yrsmikey lol
@@IGHT.1231.o good joke luh bro
That ship sailed back in 2010. Bron is closer to KD than Jordan tbh
Facts
Fax
Fax
Facts🤷🏽♂️
Nahhh, KD is way off LeBron. His team hopping is far more egregious
This was an absolute masterpiece. They should play this video in the museum at the basketball hall of fame
ts was trash I can debunk the whole video bron is the goat
It is hilarious that those advanced analytics were created after Jordan's playing days and we all know LeBron is very much aware of them and is chasing them. Yet, Jordan still has the edge in them.
Michael Jordan even said that he would’ve loved to face the greats before him and even after him. And that it would be a disrespect to everybody that came before him. But he did appreciate being a part in the whole process, and being a part of the debate. But he would never give himself that type of accolade. He’s letting everybody decide for him. As we should.
The fact that Lebron has played for 4 different teams, played with multiple Allstars, and stacked his teams multiple times automatically ends the debate. MJ beat/won more than everyone on the Dream Team…. Meanwhile Lebron has played with more than half his Olympic teammates.
Mike(mic) Drop!!
Jordan stans love to forget that Scottie Pippen existed.
yeah I agree but whats weird is that when he got his Cavs ring they really weren't stacked.. they were actually a shitty team tbh aside from Kyrie and Love. After the ring He stacked the team and lost anyway
@@Mcdun325Scottie? 😂😂😂 Just if LeBron reached in as often as you guys do...he might actually get some DEFENSIVE stats.
@@Mcdun325and your LeGay would've been a Pippen if he played in 1980s and 1990s.
Actually, Jordan's years at Washington seemed to solidify his greatness. Jordan was way past him prime and yet was one of the best defensive players as an old guy and could still score. It's unfortunate that injuries ended those seasons. LeBron is behind Bird, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Russell, Dr. J, and Kareem. Those guy not only were great but brought fans to the league. LeBron has made the NBA a negative among most people. During the 80s, EVERYONE knew about Bird vs Magic, Celtics vs. Lakers. They made the NBA a big deal...then came Jordan. Jordan took the league to a higher level of popularity. Why? Because Bird, Magic, and Jordan were winners and faithful to their franchises. Most people like loyalty.
Even when he was 38/39 years old he was still a scoring machine
Yeah.. the year he injured his knee in Washington... the were going to go to the playoffs!! And Mike's averages were crazy for his age..
@@daniell5740 He still has a whole bunch of records from his time on the Wizards. Basically a lot of the oldest player to do.....are all MJ records.
They were not loyal they were tied down
This whole loyalty thing is crazy.. 😂😂 are any of us loyal to our current employers? Hell no! If a better opportunity arrives and our current employer isn’t matching the offer/better overall work environment, we’d be out in an instant!
And don’t ever forget that the Mavs traded Harrison Barnes in THE MIDDLE OF A GAME!! And you want players to be loyal to franchises?😂
Thanks for this video! It's about time someone breaks it down for this generation of NBA fans. Next time someone wants to debate the goat, I'll pull up this video lbs. They'll still deny it and say "well that's my opinion" 😂😂😂 facts dont even matter after that line
Thats probably the most one sided video I’ve ever seen
Not only was Jordan better, he was the only player I know of, who drew in people who cared nothing for basketball. So many non sports fans showing up to his games or glued to the tv during live matches. His layups were such an amazing site to behold. Seeing him switch hands 2-3 times in mid-air in front of Ewing, Barkley, etc. while seeing his flawless layup go off the backboard.
Here is a pretty good equalizer: On the all-time scoring list, Wilt is the only one on there with only 1045 games played. If you want to see how prolific each scorer was on the list, check their point total UP TO their first 1045 games, and the list looks like this:
Michael Jordan: 31,714
Wilt Chamberlain: 31,419
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 28,753
LeBron James: 28,345
Karl Malone: 27,304
Kevin Durant: 26,892
Kobe Bryant: 26,430
Shaquille O’Neal: 26,325
So far, Jordan is the only player to have truly eclipsed Wilt, and both are the only players in NBA history to have eclipsed 30K points in 1045 games or less.
And Jordan was actually the fastest to 32,000 career points as well.
Not surprised they are #1 and #2 in career ppg
More proof lebron's numbers are just sheer quantity due to playing a long ass time and padding his stats.
Great context on adding in the first 1045 games played. In my opinion Lebron isn’t one of the 3 best scorers in NBA history.
@@skap_attack Kobe and shaqs number would probably be in the 30k if they were not playing together
speaks to both of there dominance together
Now we need to get this video out to every major media so they can repeat all this and tell the truth, instead of lie and say what they get paid to say
MJ is the G.O.A.T.. without a doubt. To add to that, MJ is a 2-time slam dunk champion. 🐐 🏀
i think mj is the goat, spud webb is a dunk contest champion, dont bring that up
Wilt chamberlain is the goat in my eyes with MJ at number 2
Every one knows it's rigged
If LeBald had two slam dunk championships his cult followers would count those with rings and hang banners lol
just because his other teammates didnt make another all star team doesnt mean his team wasnt stacked LMAOOO.
A stacked team that was actually built from scratch, drafting players and making them better over the years
So everyone should be Philly now? New league, new ways to build a team. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't mean it is "ring chasing"@@hitmanagent871
The real case study should be on the brain of anyone who thinks this is a legit debate to begin with.
Wrong, the case study should be of the MJ and LBJ fans, how many actually played basketball at a high level. I guarantee you, a majority of MJ fans never made it on their HS basketball teams- like skap
@@phillyphan1346 Shooting under 40% beyond 3 ft from the basket and below 75% from the ft for a career? Laughable.
@@phillyphan1346What does Skap not being on a high school basketball team have to do with him ruthlessly dismantling the narrative that LeBron is anywhere near "GOAT" status? You can't disprove the stats, so you attack Skap personally? Not a big brain move there, cowpoke.
@@TheWorstAmy-LegacyAccount It means he never played the game at a high enough level to actually know what he is talking about. 90%+ of MJ fans are casuals who never even watched him or have played the game at a high level. If you havent noticed, more and more NBA greats are saying LBJ is the GOAT. It is going to continue as time goes on. In my experience. LBJ fans tend to know more about the game than MJ fans. Why? Because you need to know context.
Additionally, Skap makes these disparaging LBJ videos weekly. He thinks about LBJ all day long. If it isnt a debate why does he make debate videos about it every other video? It is pathetic.
@@phillyphan1346You sound dumb more and more NBA players are saying it and now it's about 60% Jordan's the goat and almost 40% for LeBron so even the greatest athletes to lace up shoes don't have it even you parrot 😂 Nice try harder next time 😂
LeBron has had such a long and "successful" career;
Because he never was to concerned about that pesky little thing called defense
Or having a foul called on him
@mikerobinson6969 Jordan is the GOAT 🐐, but LeBron was 2nd in DPOY voting in 2013 the same year he won MVP, and almost won DPOY in 2014 too. He only cared about defense in his young prime, and not so much once he got into his 30s. Jordan gave his all, all of the time.
Don't forget about not practicing as well either.
@@alvinbutler9357 the reason I made the comment about the fouls is because LeBron is #10 in games played, #3 in minutes played but ranks 176th in fouls. Everyone else thats top 10 in games and minutes ranks no lower than 30th in fouls. Hes played 349 more games and still has less fouls than Jordan, hes played 500 more games than Isiah Thomas and has less fouls than him as well. They say Jordan got special treatment with the refs..so what do they call what LeBron gets?
That's a great observation, but the only advantage of getting more fouls called is more trips to the line for more points. We both know LeBron doesn't need anymore of those lol.
Lebron clears, Jordan never faced a team as good as the warriors🤐. If you placed jordan in lbjs era, hes not winning 6 rings, i give him 3 max😂
😂😂😂😂
If you have never watched a game of basketball in your life, and you happen to pass by a gym where there are some players playing a pickup game and two of those players happen to be Lebron and MJ at their peak, and you watch them play for an hour, no one in their right mind would say Lebron is better than MJ. All you have to do is watch them play. Who is faster? Who jumps more? Who is quicker? Who dribbles better? Who has better foot work? Who is more exciting? Who dunks better? Who is a better trash talker? Who is an absolute killer in crunch time? Who is an absolute killer, period? Who is a better scorer? Who always wants to guard the best player on the other team (ruthless defender)? Who is willing to play with a fever? Who wants to play more minutes? Who played in an era where there was no ejection unless there was blood? Who played in an era where you were constantly hand checked (pushed) or forearm checked (pushed)? If you were literally in a war, who do you want in the trenches with you? Come on, guys.....it's not even close. Debate is over. Ok, I'll give you one: Who is taller?
Lebron is faster than MJ facts, jumps far far higher than MJ see the head above the rim many times which MJ never did we have video proofs now, LeBron far quicker too see the metrics, better in clutch as he has more clutch game winners with more fg% stats too back it up so all your points are debunked today we have technology that disproves all the bullshit and LeBron has killer mentality than MJ who quit the league due to his mental health issues lol no killer🤣
LeBron jumps more than MJ which everyone knows and stats too back it up so stop the bloody nonsense, Lebron is 100 times superior to MJ in all physical metrics
Thanks to MJ's former trainer with the Bulls for pointing out the one set of statistics that settles this debate once and for all:
Only ONE player in the entire history of the NBA has accomplished all the of the following five achievements in a single season:
Scoring leader title...First team All-Defense...MVP regular season...MVP NBA finals...NBA champion
Yeah, MJ is the ONLY player in history to pull that off...and he did it FOUR TIMES!!!!
P.S. MJ is also the only player to ever win the scoring title and be Defensive Player of the Year in the same season.
Oh, and the one year that he played point guard, he came just short of AVERAGING a triple double for the entire season (missed it with only 9.6 rebounds per game - but think about his scoring average combined with also averaging more than 10 assists per game!).
Case closed - MJ is the GOAT, and he's the GOAT by a long country mile.
Absolutely astonishing metrics there.
lebron stans: LBJ played one 70 win team to MJ's 0..
MJ: we were the 70 win team.. MJ23 🐐
yet peolple still say that lebron had as much help, if you say noone said that, just take a look through this comment section
LeBron taking the cavs to the finals in 2018 is a bigger achievement than any of MJ's rings, it was him vs the world that year.
Didn't he get swept that year? 😂
Stop watching Basketball through shorts lil bro 😭
hahaha, yes making the finals and getting swept is much harder than 2 3 peats. Lebron stans are in denial.
lebron is the goat. mj never led the bulls to the finals before pippen. can you tell me who was the clevelands roster in 2007 finals? lebron took a trash team to the finals at 23 years old. mj would never
@@joaotavares078 against mid teams in the east 😂
Jordan won his championships more efficiently than Lebron, a perfect 6-0 record in the finals. Lebron lost more finals than he won. Currently, his record is 4-6. The con of longevity is he is at risk of adding to his championship loss record. It already looks bad due to the fact he's been to the finals 10 times and only got 4 wins.
8 consecutive finals not better than consecutive finals that Jordan play in his career and won it all
@@justinsm Looser mentality. Participation trophies don't count.
You are so right, just pathetic. The whole world knows that MJ is the GOAT, greetings from Germany.
Hello from Germany! And many thanks for watching 😂❤️. I’m glad to hear Germany knows who the real GOAT is.
@@skap_attack mj is not the goat ill debunk you entire video read my other comment
@@skiidmvdebunk the video? I would love to see you debunk the analytics and individual stats between both players! Comparing LeBron to many other great SF's who came before him that played at least 500 games than comparing Jordan to other great point guards who played at least 500 games and see where each player ranks in points, assists, steals, blocks, and so on it's not even close! Jordan takes it easily! I would love to see you debunk that FACT that the arrogant self proclaimed king has played hundreds of more games than Jordan and over 17,000 more minutes than Jordan and still doesn't rise to Jordans level! Jordan came out of retirement to come back and win another 3 consecutive titles! LeBron wouldn't have done that. He beat the warriors and self proclaimed himself as the greatest of all time which he received a lot of backlash for that on the media. If your the goat you don't have to say it! But the next two season LeBron was swept in the finals 0-4 and than the next year went 1-4! Some goat! All while having great players! Jordan achieved more in less time than LeBron and you millennials and LeBron fans can't seem to wrap your heads around that! The fact that some actually think that LeBron vs Jordan is even debatable shows how stupid some really are. Kobe is ahead of LeBron
@@timtwing5886 Your argument is terrible and all of you old heads say the same thing i’ll paste my other comment to show u
@@timtwing5886 This whole video is a terrible argument and easily debunkable. You say that Jordan only has fewer total stats because he played for less time than Bron when Bron had passed Jordan in points by his 14th season and also passed him in total rebounds and assists and blocks before his 15th season which was Jordans last. You say Jordan led the league in scoring more and that's just about the only thing Jordan is better in. Lebron was always focused on being a more all-around player and averaging better all-around stats than Jordan and that's why he didn't lead the league in scoring more. Bron's era also excelled in scoring compared to Jordan's with way more scorer's and long-range shooters coming up. Lebron was still ana mazing scorer and he is also better all round than Jordan being the only player to be listed in all 5 positions. You also act like advanced stats were made for Lebron when they were there before he came to the league. You then mention how Jordan's accolades are better when Lebron should have won dpoy in 2013 and 2009. Lebron also has more longevity in defense and stayed at peak defense level for longer and his defense peak was better than Jordans. Lebron also should have won MVP in 2018 and 2005. Yes, Jordan has more rings, but Lebron made the finals many times where Jordan would not have made it and he played way more competition in the finals even though you want to argue that Jordan played more competition. You go off pure statistic numbers of all stars played and played with forgetting your own argument that Lebron played so much longer so he's had more all-star teammates which weren't all with him at once. Lebron played the best team of all time in multiple finals where Jordan had the second-best team of all time at his side. Jordan only led his team in scoring and steals in playoffs and finals where Lebron led every team he played for in every thing. Jordan has a terrible win percentage without Scottie and his team preformed basically the same when he left the league where Lebron's teams dropped all the way to the worst seed when left when before they were contenders with him. Lebron has played so much better competition than Jordan overall and only left his teams for what you say is "ring chasing" when in reality its because his other teams weren't helping him at all and were absolutely terrible. LeBron overall peaked higher than Jordan and you also dismiss his longevity likes its nothing when Lebron is still going strong at 38 years old consistently when Jordan was not doing nearly as well at Lebron's age. @skap_attack please give me some more bs reasons for why MJ is the goat so I can debunk them all.
Thank You! We not just talking about a debate in basketball. This stupid debate between MJ-Lebron is the most pathetic debate in professional sports history. The longer this BS debate goes on, the WORST it's gonna get for them clowns in new media.
Jordan’s Disney movie was better too 😂
Agreed. We need to shut this damn “debate” down already. 15 years over due.
Especially if LeBron embarrasses himself and plays another season and God forbid gets swept/choked AGAIN. Damage control!
This is not a debate, it's a slaughter in MJs favor.
Where are all the LeFlop fans at? Any of you all care to do your own debate videos to defend The Frozen One?
Didn't think so Soft serves 😅
Well, they have to generate recency-bias-based 'hot takes' every day to attract views. I have watched both players' entire careers, unlike many of these youngbloods, and there is no real comparison, especially taking into account today's soft era. MJ is the best player of all time.
I know a man with 11 Rings, that would never have agreed to this, I know other man who scored 100 points in one game that disagrees.
Jordan would be on the TV on some random game and people who didn't even care about basketball would stop and watch in the street through a store window, on their way home from work, because they were seeing something amazing and they knew it. When he went off to play baseball, the NBA lost about half its over all viewership. Watching him play live, you felt privileged to be there, alive in that time and place to see that. It was like watching Mike Tyson in his prime. Jordan on the court would make the hair stand up on your arms watching him play. He was that good.
Yeah because that was the only game broadcasted lmao old ass dudes need to realize that’s why the all star game/dunk contest use to be better because of lack of everyday exposure
@@daking414 People don't randomly watch games now. Get your facts before you speak. The dunk contests sucks now because the best players lack creativity and many won't even participate once.
@@nathancook2852 think before I speak? So you’re tellin League Pass was around the whole time jordan and the earlier legends were? If I live in NYC I’m not able to see anything other than my market unless it was on NBC which lead to me only getting to see these other stars outside of my market play.
You know what’s crazy. That that image of Lebron holding his hands out with that look on his face of desperation and pain will always be what I see in my head when he’s ever brought up in a convo
It's a great image to sum up LeBum.
During Jordan's career, I set aside anything and everything to watch him play Sunday afternoons on the NBA on NBC. I've never done this for any other sport except golf to watch Tiger Woods play the majors. Jordan was absolute must watch TV.
Every time the bulls were in Atlanta, is drive the 3 hours, get a scalped ticket, to watch him play
I had to buy a 10 game package just to watch MJ play because my local team wouldn't just sell the bulls game. Worth every penny. When he was announced, the place went bananas and hundreds of sporting events later i've still never felt that electricity.
Been that way with 2 players jordan and Peyton manning
The fact that this debate even exists shows the ineptitude of the sports media. LBJ has had a great career but Jordan’s was supernatural he defied physics he defied logic and was a straight up superhero on the floor .
To be clear, Mike is my number 1. But this is a borderline hit piece lol. Makes it seem like advanced analytics was invented for Lebron(not true), then uses them to show Mike’s better in those as well.
All this guy posts is lebron hate or race bait videos its almost comedic
To be claer,we are sick of hearing people claim Lebron is better - when we know full well Michael would embarass him if they had ever met in their primes in the finals. With the whole world watching.
LeChoke is 3.5 out of 10. His nickname should be MR 35%.
MJ is on GOAT Tier level 1
Level 2: Kareem and Lebron -- mostly b/c of longevity.
Not too far behind on level 3: Magic, Bird and probably Curry, will be Jokic, Duncan, maybe KG-Kobe, and whoever else. etc.
LeBron on tier 2 is debatable. Where is Russell,Wilt,and Shaq??......Curry is an all time great,but his place in the top ten is debatable. Magic should be tier 2 easily. Hakeem should be mentioned if Curry is mentioned.
@@jlui21 joker hasn't accomplished enough. K.G. might not even be top 20. Might as well mention K.D. instead.
It’s an easy debate
6-0>4-6
While being the better overall player and having better accolades and stats added with that, Jordan is clearly superior.
Edit: Oh and Jordan did more, against more competition, with less help, in less time.
11>6
Easy debate
@@lRockyIthen Lebron ain’t even top 10 in that case Lmfao
@@lRockyIyou’re strawmanning my argument.
You’re making it only about rings, which isn’t what I did.
I mentioned rings, them as overall players, along with stats and accolades.
Also, Jordan clears Bill.
@@Ex-OTICfr
@@lRockyI That’s weak… Russell played with 4 HOF and played in an 8 team league
Michael Jordan in 11 Full Seasons with Bulls:
6 championships
6 Finals MVPs
5 MVPs
10 Scoring Titles
9 First Team All-NBA Defense
1 DPOY award
3 Steals Champion
82 game seasons: 9
1 all star teammate
Lebron and Durant in 37 full seasons combined:
6 Championships
6 Finals MVPs
5 MVPs
5 Scoring Titles
5 First Team All-NBA Defense
O DPOY awards
O Steals Champion
82 Game seasons combined: 2
14 combined all star teammates
Imagine thinking Jordan’s opposition is the same as lebrons 😅
Do you know how many all time greats Jordan has faced? Plus this is your only argument isn’t it
you clearly Didn't watch "old" basketball. Jordan was up against great players.
@@Sirdogeington Were any of those teams as good as the Spurs, Warriors,Celtics? Even the 2012 Thunder are better than most of the teams Jordan faced.
@@Sirdogeingtonyou might call them greats since they looked so good since every opponent of them except Jordan was straight ass
😂🤣🤣😂😂😂🤣
I’m pushing 50, my older brother got me into NBA hoops in the early 80’s. I’ve still never seen anyone close to MJ. He was far better than everyone then or since then. Best scorer, best defensively, and the most clutch player I’ve ever seen. By far.
Larry Bird was even more clutch, absolutely ruthless.
I am reporting thus comment for spreading false information!
Kobe was just as great!
@@Mike1122. Jordan beats Kobe in virtually any metric you can name. Even Kobe said Jordan was the greatest of all time.
mj is so overrated
All facts, Mr. Skap. The 2011 finals ended it once and for all.
can't argue with FACTS
Not to mention 2009 and 2010 missing the Finals while having the best record in the NBA
But what about the series against Golden State? I thought that made him the greatest of all time? I mean he said so himself. 😂😂
It ended when he got swept in 2007.....
If Jordan was on THAT Miami team in 11’ instead of Lebron ..mavs would’ve got swept
jordan is also 1-9 in the playoffs without pippen and 154-170 in the regular season without him as well. jordan has also never won a playoff series without a top 75 team, something lebron has done numerous times. lebron’s finals opponents have had much high net efficiency than jordan’s. lebron has the most 30 point triple doubles in finals history. lebron has played more hof players in the finals as well. he’s also faced 6 more mvp’s or former mvp’s than jordan in the finals. lebron is the first person to average a triple double in the finals. lebron is the first person to lead a team in literally every stat in a playoff series of any length. just for reference jordan in his last 3 finals wins had the stat line of: 31.1 PPG| 5.4 RPG| 4.2 APG| 43.4 FG%| and lebron in his last three finals LOSSES was: 34.6 PPG| 11.6 RPG| 9.5 APG| 47.5 FG%| jordan could never do what lebrons doing at 38 years old neither. lebron is a much much more well rounded player as well. it’s also hard to compare players who played in different eras as well. your video was great however i’m not hating on you at all keep up the good work.
(most) Jordan fans: YOU MUST BOW TO JORDAN AS THE GREAT!!!!!! Lebum, Mickey Mouse ring chaser
(most) Lebron fans: Both are good, I just think LeBron is better
@@cheesehead52221is this a joke? Most lebron fans call him the goat no matter what. Some were calling him it after he lost to the nuggets in the first round 4-1
I would take Jordan over Lebron but it isn't as wide as a gulf as he makes it seem. One, since Lebron and Jordan commonly made the NBA finals you have to look at the teams that beat them in the NBA finals, Lebron faced stacked Golden State teams. Lebron also averaged more assists, more rebounds. Lebron also made more 3 pts shots per game while shooting a higher percentage. While Jordan led the league in scoring more times he only averaged about 3 pts more per game over his career, with Lebron playing at older ages, which will lower your average. I must be one of those "teenagers" who don't remember Jordan, oh wait, I am 51 and I am old enough not only to remember JOrdan but Dr. J and Kareem
Eloquently said. He wont reply to this one for sure.
Jordan already played at an older age than Lebron, on one leg and with broken ribs thanks to MWP. Dude was a shadow of himself physically and hadn't played pro sports in three full years. He pretty much had no time at all that first season to get into proper basketball shape because of his injuries. It would have been much different had he never stopped playing and been in basketball shape (and mind) going into those final two seasons. But he played those couple of years basically shooting mid range jumpers all game because his knees wouldn't allow him to do anything else. Those years absolutey killed his career stats, probably doing as much damage as the slow drop off would have done had he played the three seasons prior, so overall his stats would have looked pretty similar in terms of averages but obviously way better in terms of career totals.
But where you're going wrong is by just looking at 'more rebounds, more assists' which is pretty much the least analytical way you could possibly compare the two. It's much better to look at advanced metrics which aggregate all that box score data to give an idea of the overall impact of a player each time they stepped foot on a court. It's here where MJ clearly leads LeBron, in every single one of these box score based metrics. The video references these, though he doesn't go into detail about the particular numbers, just how many times each led the league. In terms of actual numbers, Jordan leads LeBron in overall career averages for these metrics....in fact he leads all of NBA history. The gulf isn't massively wide as you correctly state but you can say that about all the top ten players of all time.....when you get to that point there's not a lot that separates them from a statistical standpoint, it's why they are ranked as high as they are and it's why these arguments come down to splitting hairs a lot of the time.
He made it to the finals playing much weaker competition in the east. That's why people tend to only talk about his finals appearances, the trip there wasn't noteworthy or memorable outside of 2018 which still had no title contenders out east. MJ also had an average 3 point shot for his era while lebron has a below average shot for his.
MJ took two years of his prime off as well. What would those same stats look like if you remove the year 30-32 from LeBron.
@@inefektI actually disagree with you on the point of Jordan clearly leading James in the advanced stats metrics because if you look at them they’re fairly even
Jordan leads James in 3 categories player efficiency by .7, Box +/- by .4 points and usage % by 1.7%
James leads Jordan in 3 categories as well Value over replacement by 20 , win shares by 41.1 and true shooting by 2.1 points
So overall if we look at advanced metric they are even and the advanced stats Jordan does lead in its not by more then .9 points they have the same efficiency, they have a similar bpm and they have similar usage rates
Now that’s just talking regular season advanced stats if we’re talking playoff advanced states they’re fairly even as well
Lebron leads Jordan in 3 categories Value over replacement by 9.7, Win shares by 18.1 and True shooting by 2.5
Jordan leads James in Player efficiency by .7, Box +/- by 1.1 and usage % by 4.8
So overall even in the playoffs they show similar performances it truly comes down to what type of basketball player you want leading your team. If Jordan was placed in Lebrons shoes would he be able to do the same thing as lebron would he be able to go to the finals that many times would he be able to beat those teams lebron played against? The Spurs one of the best teams of that time with Tim Duncan, Tony parker, Ginobli and a young Kawhi Leonard, The Mavs which during that playoffs sweeped the lakers, beat Okc and the heat to win the playoffs and finals, and finally the Golden State Warriors possibly the greatest basketball team assembled so truthfully while people hate on Lebron for his loosing Championship record if you look at the teams he faced they where some of the best teams to exist. Went to the finals 10 times consecutively from 2011 -2018 faced some of the best teams ever id say the argument is just as close as people make it out. The reason why in a lot of peoples minds Lebron will never beat jordan is purely due the accolades what determines greatness in peoples eyes is impact and accomplishments which then turns into legacy , Jordans legacy in basketball overall is bigger then lebrons He has more accolades then lebron and his impact on basketball was bigger in the sense that he got his own shoe with Nike which went on to essentially revive the company and also just impact the American culture in general he “brought basketball to the world stage” and we could honestly go on. if we’re talking about the best basketball player you could choose Lebron or Jordan and you wouldn’t be wrong they both dominated both their respective eras in a once in a generation fashion but if we are talking the greatest then indeed it is Jordan because of what his Legacy means to the game of Basketball as a whole
Imagine if MJ played 20 years in a row, he would have won at least 8 chips
He had to take 4 years off in 15 years, ofcourse MJ couldnt last 20 years straight. I would have paid good money to see him on any other roster besides the Bulls. Pretty funny he wouldnt even come back to CHI unless Phil Jackson remained coach, he was literally going to stay retired if Phil left. That is your GOAT? a guy who won in ONE system which happened to be the best roster in the league? L M A O.
So you gonna act like 2011 didn’t exist? And Lebron didn’t crawl his way to Miami?
There are a lot of hot takes that are simply on the wrong side of history
[We don't have to imagine with Lebron - WE ARE ALL STILL WITNESSING GREATNESS]
Lebron James is on his way to
41,000 points;
11,000 assists and
11,000 rebounds;
The only man with a TRIPLE QUINTUPLE in NBA History;
For context, no other player in NBA history has 27,000, 7,000, and 7,000
The comparison (statistically) really isn't that close
As of March 20, 2019
--------------------------
LEBRON JAMES
Career Points 32,543
Career Assists 8,606
Career Rebounds 8,844
Career Blocks 918
Field Goal Attempts 23,400
Free Throws Made 7,140
----------------------------------------------------------
MICHAEL JORDAN
Career Points 32,292
Career Assists 6,672
Career Rebounds 5,643
Career Blocks 893
Field Goal Attempts 24,537
Free Throws Made 7,327
-----------------------------------------------------------
LEBRON PASSED JORDAN IN 2019 AND HAS BEEN LAPPING HIM EVERY SINCE.
And then there is this:
Lebron has more player of the months all time than anyone in NBA history of the game
Lebron has more player of the weeks all time that anyone in NBA history of the game
More playoff points all time
More regular season points all time
More all star points all time
More all star votes all time
Most seasons averaging 25 ppg all time
4th all time in assists
Most playoff assists and steals all time
Most all NBA appearances all time
When you say or hear CHASE DOWN BLOCK....who do you think of.
Lebron's body holding up to possibly play with his sons is a strength/positive
Jordan retiring multiple times is NOT a strength/positive.
Longevity is not a weakness - it is a sign of strength.
Jordan was burned out after 3 finals appearances, what makes you think he could play 20 straight years.
Jordan was sick every damn month dude couldn’t hold up to a full career lol
I’ve never missed a player like I’ve missed watching MJ. It was so much fun and I’m so grateful to have been able to watch him. MJ did the things you always imagined as a kid by yourself shooting around - he was the physical embodiment of your childhood fantasies. By contrast, I can’t wait for Lebron to leave. I’m so sick of everything about him - his ego, his sycophantic commentators like Nick Wrong, and the horrible decisions the Lakers have to make because he’s on the floor. Not to mention what a complete baby he is. It is time for him to go…
Yeah, because MJ had no ego, no commentators gushing over him, and never acted like a spoiled brat himself, like storming out of practice because he didn't think that a scrimmage game had the right score.
@@DanTarrant1 just like MJ was better than LJ in basketball he was (and is) also better at media relations. Stayed out of politics, never said stupid crap like he was the goat, acknowledged other players, etc. He hasn’t even ripped Pippen publicly. MJ’s just more of a class act.
I too recall Jordan’s second three peat when I was still very young and growing up in Kobe’s era. A true lifelong pleasure to watch both players.
@@Calidastasgambling and alcohol
so lebron wasnt entertaining as well? The dick riding is crazy in this comment section I knew exactly what I was walking into
Once the steroid accusations become proven, Lebron will be looked at like Lance Armstrong.
He will play until he's 45 and they will be false. Just sit back and relax as a 39 year old demolishes your team.🤣
I suspect something...yes. But things have to be proven. Otherwise, he's just a freak of nature. The way he is playing RIGHT NOW, is not something I thought possible period. Then again, who thought that anyone could make 77 3-pointers in a row in practice like Steph?? So, at some point, you have to admit the possibilities.
steroids also don’t make you average 25 points at age 40
21 years in the league and he’s still chasing MJ’s ghost…
How a man that lost as many finals as Jordan won... and people think he's even in the conversation is beyond me. Yea he has more totals... so does Karl Malone. MJ is the 🐐
ok fine what would lebron need in order to be the goat
@@averageproblem the window is closed. He would have had to be as dominant as Jordan was. As great as LeBron is he simply was not. It's not just the 6 for 6 rings. It's the individual accolades too. Look at his basketball reference... count all the bold and italicized numbers, both standard and advanced, where he lead the league. He dominated. Now compare that to LeBron's. It's not close.
@@matthewt8214 this my counter argument.:czcams.com/video/IVdJ6Z9jluc/video.html&pp=ygUQZ29hdCBkZWJhdGUganhteQ%3D%3D
People act like MJ will forever be the GOAT and never can be beaten. With players getting better every year, eventually someone is going to be a clear-cut GOAT and people will still be like "He's not even close to MJ" There are so many other parts to being great than stats. Stats just show who's a better player, and also gives a plus to the accolades collected.
@@averageproblem I completely disagree. With the game becoming more advanced, training and load management etc, at best it's going to muddy the water. Look at baseball. Babe Ruth isn't the clear cut goat, some say it's Barry Bonds who played recently. But as the game has advanced you see fewer players playing the full season, pitching complete games etc. There's less opportunity with all the focus on staying healthy
@@matthewt8214 Jokic won MVP this year (I'm ignoring Embiid's MVP because Kendrick Perkins is a bitch for taking his deserved MVP) Won the championship, all while only playing 69 games this season. Do you really need to play that many games if your team is built really well that it still wins without their best player? Don't get me wrong, they aren't the same without Jokic, considering the win shares he has over his career. My definition of greatness is the amount of accolades a player receives, and how dominant a player can be during that time. MJ played only 13 seasons. Veterans who are nowhere close as good as MJ played way longer. In that time he garnered more accolades than lebron did in 20. Of course I consider lebron to have been sold by his teammates a couple times throughout his career, and he also made the terrible move of trying to be GM. (How does a guy who can memorize the whole playbook and not be able to make sensible trades?) Lebron also had to play against one of the best teams assembled next to MJ's team, and then had to play them again with KD, but somehow won coming from a 3-1 deficit. Lebron also came into a team not willing to at least try to build around him, carrying his team to the finals with a bunch of scrubs, getting swept in no time. MJ got drafted to a team ready to build around him and gathered pieces that helped MJ be the greatest he could be. I think Lebron would've stayed with the Cavs if they did a better job building around him, he could've had a much better career than he has now. But of course, this debate is stupid because it all comes down to someone's opinion of greatness. That's why I believe the goat debate will never end with the majority with MJ, the minority with Lebron, and the last 5% with anyone but MJ or Lebron (for now)
MJ leading the league in scoring 10 seasons in a row is mind-boggling. Especially when you consider Wilt Chamberlain only had 7 total in his career.
Also, for a majority of Lebrons career, the eastern conference was WEAK AF. There was that short run by the Celtics when they had their big 3 but that was about it. After Lebron went to Miami, there was no one in the Eastern conference to contend with.
Also loved the wrap-up at the end about longevity being a minuscule thing when it comes to greatness. Joe Flacco having more passing yards than Joe Montana is hilarious though.
MJ didn’t win 10 scoring titles in a row. In Mj’s second season the 30 win bulls team made the playoffs yet LbJ’s east was weak. And we can’t compare two different sports
If LeBron was in the western conference those years I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been in so many finals. I think the bulls with Rose gave em a bit of a challenge a year or two plus Celtics like you mentioned and that's about it.
@@frankhtlllful DRose could have caused serious problems for LBJ if he had stayed healthy. That 2012 Bulls team was way better than the 2011 one which got to the ECF - still hurts to watch DRose highlights.
@@AntoineSMDPuscYou 🤡. Michael Jordan 👉🏾 WHEN STARTING A SEASON HAS WON 10 CONSECUTIVE SCORING TITLES BOZO. David Robinson scoring title Jordan was RETIRED, Shaq 1995 Scoring Title Jordan played 17 Games that season in baseball shape, he didn't even qualify for the PPG list Bozo. When Jordan played and ended a full season he won 10 scoring titles consecutively. Jordan in 11½ seasons in Chicago has accomplished more than anyone in NBA History 👉🏾 WINNING & ACCOLADES Hold more weight than stats 👉🏾 THAT'S WHY THE MAN SAID JOE FLACCO HAS MORE YARDS THAN JOE MONTANA BOZO THE 🤡.
Paul George is a first ballot HOFer and I’m tired of people disrespecting what that man did in Indiana
we done with the 90s. Bron is the goat. Dude won on every team he's been on. MJ could never
And yet Jordan still has more rings
@@hitmanagent871 did it in one of the least competitive eras on ONE team. You’re missing my point🤡
@@crangusmcbasketball2931 you made zero point anyways 😂 you don't deserve to be talking basketball
@@hitmanagent871 my point is bron isn’t dependent on a single team. The chips go where he goes. Can’t say the same about mj. Learn to read
@@crangusmcbasketball2931 the greats always stay with one team Jordan Kobe magic Russell bird Duncan curry all successfully created a dynasty with the team that drafted them. Lebron never created a dynasty in Cleveland so he left like a female dog
So he played in the nba longer and still can’t pass Jordan in titles LOL.. and somehow he’s better?
I just discovered this channel, and I’ve watched every video I can’t believe how much the media hid from me as a casual fan of the game, keep up the good work dawg 💯
This is casual central, skap don’t know ball dude was a CYO player
@@LL-zm9goYou don't have to be NBA star to know basketball.
That’s why mass media is dying
When you consider Jordan won 6 finals out of 13 full seasons compared to LeBron’s 4 of 20 it makes the argument even stronger. 46% vs 20% means Jordan won the NBA championship 2.3x more efficiently than LeBron.
When you really take everything into account….IT ISNT CLOSE 😂. Really, not sure how this became a conversation. The battle for 2 all time is actually fierce. And like 5-8 guys have claim for that spot.
You know whats even better? Jordan was more likely to win a championship (46%) than Lebron is to make a 3PT shot this season (41%)
lol but lebron has made it to the finals 50% of the time. Jordan lost to the east because in the 90s the east was better than the west. Jordan lost more in the playoffs because that’s where his competition was when he got to the finals it was a cake walk. in the 00’s,10’s the west has been better than the east so lebron would walk through the playoffs to lose to the better team coming out of the west not to mention 5 of his 6 losses are against 2 of the top 5 teams of all time in the spurs and the warriors. and 2 of his finals losses he was in mvp conversations because of how well he played even though the team lost. Jordan fans are so delusional. You guys talk about Jordan like you brag about how good you were as your high schools starting qb. You weren’t that good then and remember it with nostalgia same way you guys talk about Jordan.
If they both played in today’s league Jordan would be a better scorer and lebron would be a better all around player. Simple as that. You wouldn’t compare them because they dont play the same way. Lebron is the greatest overall basketball player of all time. Jordan is the best scorer and champion ever. They are different players they both goats in their own right but dont you dare try to tell me that Jordan is a better overall basketball player than a player who has been top 5 in almost every main statistical category for 20 years in this league. When Jordan was only a scorer with a great team around him to let him be a scorer
Jordan played 15 seasons not 13
@@clidioustheprogamer6791 played 18 games in 85’ and 17 games in 94. Jordan played 13 full seasons.
Bros d riding is crazy
Why, simply for stating facts? 🤦🏽♂️ You Bronsexuals boy I tell you.
Mr. Skap, I have to say. You are a very honest and practical man. Thank you sir for laying to rest these many sports delusions
He's truly 1 of the very few on gems youtube.. even the rest of "truth tellers" mostly have this bum in their top 5 still JUST in case😂so they don't get labeled a "total hater" and in future could get big sponsors and sht SMH
Many thanks for the kind words, guys. I appreciate it, and I appreciate you tuning in! And I will never sell out 😂. I will continue to bust this bum up all over this platform 🙏 ❤️
@@skap_attack He's got a whole political party, 10s mills of Letrolls and 2 dozens of LeMedia members behind him, but "the light always shines inside darkness", so we'll win anyway! Ty again.
@@upfront2375why is Lebron not top ten
@@skap_attackI could tell you why Lebron is at least top 2
This is by far the most comprehensive video that completely annihilates this "debate." The fact that MJ dwarfs LeBron even in advanced analytics says a lot, especially considering that these analytics were designed in part to diminish the great 90s players. It's also crazy how people just allow LeBron to skip past Kobe aka Diet MJ based on nothing more than empty stats. That Frank Gore/Barry Sanders comparison was a perfect example of how stats without context are for fools. Your videos never miss, and this one is my fav to date!
Thank you!! I appreciate the kind words and for your continual support and viewership 🙏🙏
Fundamentally, the entire line of reasoning on Lebron annoys the hell out of me. Just as you said: 1) the implication that Jordan v Lebron is even a debate and 2) that it’s “not close” between Kobe and Lebron. The only thing that isn’t close, never was and never will be is Jordan v Lebron.
How many dynasty teams did Jordan face? Your really think the skill level back then is comparable to know? I’m not discrediting certain great players of the 90s but the parity between teams then and teams now is incomparable. Why do we not put bill Russell ahead of Jordan? He got a 7peat and 2 more as player coach? It’s because we don’t acknowledge the skill levels of players/teams in that era? A little hypocritical don’t you thing? Get back at me, down to have a respectable debate. Until then it’s not even close King James >Jordan
@@PumpkinEscobar92 I think some put Russell a head of Jordan and I understand the reasoning. I personally have Russell on the Mount Rushmore. Lebron’s playoff opponents were not as good as you think. Some of the reason there were no other dynasty level teams when Jordan played was because of him. He didn’t allow others to win unlike Lebron. Jordan came up in the 80s that was STACKED. Bird Celtics and Magic Lakers. Bad boy pistons. More competitive and too heavy than any time Lebron ever played in. I’m working on an EXTENSIVE piece on what all time great has the BEST playoff resume. I’m deep into researching it and let me assure you, it’s DEFINITELY not Lebron lol.
@skap_attack He never beat Boston and he waited for the decline of the Pistons and Lakers to win his first Championship, at their peak Jordan couldn't get it done
@@shazmagoon right. BUT he did get it done 6 times in essentially 12 years. Lebron has played 19 years of healthy full seasons compared to 12 of Jordan and he’s got it done 4 times. AND Lebron has had way more help. In fact he just has to jump team to team to get more and more help. Still has failed substantially more than he’s succeeded. In fact Kobe played harder comp with less supporting casts and won more in less time. I’ve seen his entire career and for the life of me I can figure out why Lebron is held in such high regards.
I don't see how people even think Lebron LAME is even top 5!!!
Even top ten! I wouldn’t put him in my top 15 probably😂😂 I would love a all time ranking from Skap
@@CarterBrady1ur special if ur saying ts😂
@@CarterBrady1while I think Jordan is better, lebron is clearly #2
This might be the worst take i've ever heard of all time
It's really not a debate. Thank you for pushing back on the big media morons, With vids that are well executed, informative and hilarious
Shi-
The thing that will always keep LeBron out of the GOAT conversation were his days in Miami. He had the 3rd best player in the league, DWade, one of the best big men, Chris Bosh, and the 2nd greatest shooter ever, Ray Allen. He proclaimed he would win 7 championships, and shat the bed in 2011 and lost to a team of 40 year olds in 2014. He got a taste of his own medicine by losing to the Steph & KD Warriors twice.
bring it on cream puff boy
dude i would lay you out in a fight count on it
8 points in a Finals game 😂😂😂
Was kobe number 1 and bron 2 wade 3?
dont forget the rules that favored a more aggressive defense during jordans era. jordan would average 50 in today's nba
I mean, he’d average at least 40 imo.
@@skap_attack multiple former nba stars have said that. i'm just agreeing with them tbh
this some bs u talking right here. today's nba is much thougher than how it was back then. sure mj is good, but he would be no where near a 50 points average. 25 at most. also defensive rules back then didn't allow much defensive plays so ur argument is absolute trash. stop glazing fr
first person who isn't a bot in these comments@@56bosu
Defense was non existent back then only iso defense with no double or triple teams, MJ would average 20-25 today
Winning championships are a team accomplishment. MJ only really had to do was score the basketball and play defense in which came in an era where he didn’t have to worry about spacing and provided the luxury of hand-checking. He had everyone else do the other stuff for him. In 2016 Bron led both teams in all 5 major statistical categories. He had to be an elite scorer, defender, playmaker and rebounder for the Cavs to upset the Warriors. If you place any of the championship Bulls teams MJ wouldn’t have to worry about guarding Curry because he had people do that for him. He didn’t have to worry about blocking shots and rebounding the ball because he had people to do that for him. It’s a paradox really. Bron doing all 5 things at a high level was more impressive than MJ only scoring a ton in the finals.
Same way lebron had a different player to hit the clutch shot for him against the warriors in 2016?
Jordan guarded the best perimeter player every damn night. Just shows you never watched the GOAT play. "All he had to do was score", who the hell else was gonna score. Pippen ave 16 for his career, a little better when he played with Jordan, Kukoc 14 a game, Grant 11, that was it. And he didn't have all 3 of those guys his entire career. Let's be generous and say Jordan's next 3 tops scorers get 45 a night. LeFlop had Wade and Bosh, those two alone get 45 a night... And LeFlop's cast gets better than Jordan's the deeper you go...
Also, if you look at star power. In Jordan's day people were truly in awe of his presence, if he was on TV the audience was going crazy, everyone knew this is a really special athlete. Jordan was well-spoken and advocated for good causes, not earning credit for his legacy, but using his star power for something positive. Lebron is a shadow of Jordan's aura and mystique.
Seriously would walk right past LeBron if I saw him zzzz
Jordan is damn near untouchable.
jordan played against comparatively weaker players than the players lebron played against
,,weaker" - bird, magic, kareem, barkley, ewing, johnson, hill, stockton, malone, payton just to name a few
@@kappa92195 fr
@@kappa92195 want a stat to bust that narrative?
I think kobe is better then Lebron
😂
Damn i miss kobe. Can you do a vid like this for kobe v lebron?
💯
Skap I found your page just 2 weeks ago and just love your content. The way you tell the truth about LeFraud Shames is priceless. On another note I know everyone does this but I would love to see you do a video breaking down your 10 ten NBA players in history in a two part series with explanation. Keep up the good work sir!
Lol 😂 😂
@@jonthomson9262fax this channel was made to cater to bron haters😂
LeFloppy 😂
Its not worth debating✅️
Out of all honesty, over 1/4 of the stats you mentioned I did not even know about. Those that still say that Leflop played in a tougher league, you’re wrong. In the league Jordan played in, DEFENSE WAS ACTUALLY A THING. While on the other hand, Leflop is playing in an era where defense practically is not a thing anymore. This year’s all star game proved it too, (I know this video was posted before then) where the east scored 211 points, once again because of defense not being a thing anymore. This debate was stupid to begin with.
Ill never forget when MJ came back to play again. The whole world was so excited like Ive never seen before. It didnt even matter who he played for, we just wanted to see the magic again.
Nothing against the Rockets, but the NBA was dead without MJ
People who thinks lebron is in the debate are so ignorant people
@@stephanebouvier1304 lebron is DEFINITELY in the debate. You may not have him as the goat and that’s fine, but if he’s not 1, he’s top 2 all time and if you deny that you’re just hating
@@Robss_listen. I don't know the entire history of basketball. I have never seen play wilt or Julius erving or baylor or Jerry west or maravich or many others. But i saw Jordan and lebron play a lot of time and there's no debate between them. It's even pathetic and ridiculous to claim to have a debate on this. It's not close, lebron is far from Jordan. But i don't know if Jordan was better than every other basketball player in history. I don't know if Jordan is number one. And I don't know if lebron is number 2. To be honest, for example, i prefer magic or bird to lebron but i don't know if they were better or not, it's another debate. What do you know about the history of basketball? How old are you? What have you seen?
@@stephanebouvier1304 it’s funny how you say that it’s not even a debate (also admitting you don’t know a lot about basketball) but multiple NBA players and coaches have lebron as their goat. Excuse me but I’m valuing more the opinions of some of the best basketball players on the planet rather than yours.
I know people are going to say that Skap Attack is a hater when it comes to Lebron but, he's just pointing out the facts. 6 is greater than 4. Thanks for another great video!
Skap attack is absolutely one of the biggest hater.
@@vlad6331 Lebroom got swept away to Cancun. Cry more. 😢😭🤣🤣🤣🧹🧹🧹
@@vlad6331and LeGay is the main reason why the LeGay anti flop rule is now going to be enforced.
@@vlad6331I know we men ain't meant to... I know it's hard..
So I'll do it for you..
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Dumb haters hating on one of the greatest players ever, very sad, lebron you are a great person and amazing player.
The sports world needed this video, thank you 💯
Any fan who really knows NBA Basketball from the 1980's and 1990's, finds out very quickly that Michael Jordan is by-far-and-away the greatest athlete of them all. Watching LeBron and the Lakers might be okay in 2023/24. But, compared to MJ and the Bulls from 1987/88 was way more exciting. It's boring watching 3-pointers after 3-pointers compared to Michael who was much more creative and earns his 3 points with a dunk and the foul.
jordan could not shoot brudda thats why he aint shoot 3 pointer after 3 pointer. also the lakers do not have 3 HOF like the bulls did.
@@12avchrhd3That is so far from the truth, I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
@@12avchrhd3Chum, re-read your answer and be more sincere please. MJ has the highest points per game in NBA History - 30.1 ppg & 33.4 in the playoffs. He also has won the Scoring Title 10 times and LeBron won the same Award just one time. Why are you saying he can't shoot?
@@BouchIsOnTheLoose702 he can’t shoot 3s mb
@@12avchrhd3 The main reason he doesn't shoot 3's is he grew up playing basketball when there wasnt a 3-point line. I don't know how you can blame that on him.
And it’s also been said before: How can LeBron be the GOAT when he can’t even measure up to Kareem Abdul Jabar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird or even Magic Johnson, all who would have danced circles around LeBron James? Have you seen their films? These guys were intense and had fire in their eyes. I’m old enough to have seen them all play and their level of intensity was way higher than LeBron has ever displayed. C’mon, man. We all have our own opinions, but in my book LeBron doesn’t even crack the top 5.
lebron played against kobe, he did not "dance circles around him" also get wilt off this list, put anyone else their, wilt is not in my top ten even.
Michael Jeffrey Jordan can do what every other basketball player can do. But no other basketball player can do what Michael Jordan can do. Thank you, scap attack You are definitely a basketball savant🐐🐐23👏👏👏🔥🔥🔥🔥🎯
This is the best GOAT video I’ve seen - not the most comprehensive, but the best, nonetheless. I’d like to see a video comparing MJ to Bill Russell, as well. He only got a few seconds in this one.
Direct quote from an article on basketball network website
Referencing hand checking .
“The rule was more popular than ever during the 90s Chicago Bulls regime when Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen dominated the perimeter. But eventually, the league removed the rule when Jordan retired because of the lack of perimeter production when the legend took off in 2004 And since the hand check rule was removed, the offense started benefiting for obvious reasons. The NBA wanted the same production Jordan provided in the perimeter, so they hoped that removing the hand-checking rule would do just that. And true enough, perimeter dominant players like Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, etc., were able to take over the league. “