We're Fixing this Anti-Consumer Nightmare | OpenPleb Sensors & RGB, ft. Wendell from Level1 Techs
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- čas přidán 29. 05. 2024
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We joined Wendell from Level1 Techs to talk about not just the RGB problem, but the explosion of proprietary parts on the PC market. That includes everything from motherboards, new power standards, cabling changes to ATX, fans that can't connect to other fans, and more. This went from a rant to much more -- the formation of a standards stewardship and knowledgebase organization, OpenPleb, founded by Wendell of Level1 Techs and Steve of GamersNexus as a new host of documentation, agreements between vendors, and open standards that benefit the health of the computer industry. This is a topic that deeply concerns both of us for reasons far beyond the seemingly 'simple' beginnings of RGB, as we fear something more sinister as PC hardware continues to lock users into ecosystems and as vendors gain enormous power to just 'turn off' devices once they're past the desirable supported age.
Watch the video where we joined Level1 Techs on their channel! • Taipei: Cloudy, With A...
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - The Problem
03:15 - Don't Provoke the Steve
04:45 - Wendell Rants
06:35 - The Problem
08:29 - The Solution
13:02 - How Companies Benefit Too
17:37 - An Open Organization
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Host: Steve Burke
Co-Host: Wendell of Level1 Techs
Video: Mike Gaglione, Vitalii Makhnovets - Hry
Watch the video where we joined Level1 Techs on their channel! czcams.com/video/M2enHh3RzZg/video.html
Find Level1 Techs here! czcams.com/users/level1techs
Learn more about OpenPleb! This is ONLY JUST BEGINNING. We are getting resources committed to building this. forum.level1techs.com/t/codename-openpleb-a-non-profit-for-open-consumer-motherboard-and-peripheral-standards/197713
Why not reach out to the OpenRGB developers? They're trying to accomplish a similar result on a software level.
JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT YOU CAN REVERSE-ENGINEER ALOT OF THIS STUFF, BASICALLY "INDIVIDUALLY ADDRESSABLE LEDS" WITH NAMESPACE REGISTERS ^_^
In live concert world there's a protocol to control lighting called DMX, which essentially allows daisy chaining multiple light sources and control them with a single lighting board similar to a mixing console.
Maybe it can be used/adapted to control LED components in a PC. no need to reinvent the wheel.
if we ever want to see a meaningful progress in our lifetime what we need is fines and regulation of all multi-billion dollar tech corporations in the USA.
e.g. so they would be obligated to make lets say 50% perf gain/year/dollar at affordable price points in a 0-400 bucks range, and if they are unable then they should supply government/scientists/education with their top tech for free + billions in fines on their profits (50% cut to "the government's technological progress fund") that would go to education/scholarships/medicine/science, stuff like that.
these companies should be obligated to drive the technological progress of humanity and shouldn't be allowed to milk the market without repercussions in form of fees paid to society / scientific / technological progress. you either make real gain every year or pay to government / scientists / education who would do that instead of you. as is all these companies are parasiting on society and progress, slowing the latter down for max profits.
taxes should be applied on company's profits.
at given price ranges corporations should be obligated to make 50% perf gain per dollar per year. if they don't = fines/taxes. prices wouldn't be fixed but perf/dollar should be 50%+. so they should be obligated to mass produce devices (as they already do) with such a gain in a 0-400 bucks range. product names and numbers will be irrelevant, they just should be not crippled in any way. like "a smartphone" will be defined legally what it should have as a bare minimum, like charging and a some type of connection to mass produced headphones, even e.g. replaceable not glued battery. if their devices are "only" 40% faster BUT decrease in price so perf/dollar is 50% gain = okay. if its 0% perf gain but 50% drop in price = still okay. pretty sure balance will find itself.
you can regulate price/performance at a certain price point. i.e. 50% per year can be the baseline for cheap smartphones/GPUs/CPUs (e.g. 100-300 bucks), but nobody stops companies from making 60-75% gain and sell those at a premium for x2-1000 money to stupid customers, i don't care as long as we would get at least 50% gain for affordable prices.
current 0-15% for years is just abominable.
find the right person/people and tell them about it.
actual details - thats just government's work to do, you pay taxes don't you?
clearly every good legislation needs a research and not just taking everything 100% from some random guy on internet (me). but i don't mind if they do))
at least you've acknowledged my twisted world view, thanks. think about how YOU can fight corporations BETTER. I get what you're saying BUT I'm pretty sure you can do better than what you already do.
tech tubers actually have A LOT of power but you're relactant to ACTUALLY use it for some reason. "None of us has the power to affect overnight change ". all of us together HAVE THAT POWER. and YOU'RE SPEARHEADING THIS POWER because YOU'RE THE VOICE OF COMMUNITY.
you and buildzoid already made mobos VRMs better, you personally ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR BETTER AIRFLOW CASES.
so yes, YOU HAVE A LOT OF POWER.
at least change how you compare pricing by ignoring mining-era prices. point out HOW MUCH overpriced everything is now. compare to 2016 prices. point out that ngreedia sells 4050s as 4060ti-s, 4070s as 4080 16gb. do that.
don't do that "maintaining neutrality" crap. thank you.
You had me at "We're creating an open-standards organization" and "this guy." Heck, yes.
I feel like this cluster of computer hardware standards mirrors some of the issues the community is working through in the smart home space as well.
Absolutely)) a second this or third this or whatever this... Basically we need this
@TheMacel66 I like my smart home like I like my RGB -- chaotic and incompatible!! 😈
No, for real, though, Home Assistant is an amazing community for the smart home, and I'm hoping this new initiative fosters as much growth for the PC community.
If they do open standard vibration motors for controllers humanity might actually get out the solar system
@@nimoy007 "smart home" seems a contrary term for a house full of remote controlled daftly coloured light bulbs. Perhaps the home is considered smart when compared to the occupants/zombie consumers 🤔
I think a lot of people in the hardware industry fail to understand that the PC market exists because of form factors and standards. ATX, PCIe, etc. Without those standards, every company would be Apple.
I think they look at Apple's bottom line and say 'I want *that.'* What they don't realize is that this hobby is becoming prohibitivley expensive for anyone that doesn't have a US median income.
Excellent points on that companies looking at Apple's money, but not thinking beyond that to the health of the ecosystem on the whole.
@@GamersNexus Absolutely, they should be taking the viewpoint of growing the ecosystem so that their individual profit becomes larger because the market is much larger, instead of trying to get a few extra pennies, forcing the market to shrink.
The word you were looking for was greed. The West is unfortunately awash with it at the moment. Profit is fine, greed is not.
@@dagarath It's the piano store mentality: sell fewer, with a larger profit per unit.
@@redrock425 Define "greed". I want the most profit possible. Is that greed? Nope. I want the CEO's of the companies in my mutual funds to be that way.
I use OpenRGB. I was shocked when I recently upgraded and found out that all the manufactures RGB wasn't compatible. I got an MSI motherboard, Asus video card, corsair case, fans and ram and a MSI AIO. So all my RGB was doing it's own thing until I found OpenRGB. Now all the RGB has the same Theme.
Thank you for opening my eyes to that piece of software! When I finally get my PC back up, I am going to download that!
@@Awkward_Fox It's a little buggy, but it works for the most part. By being open source, people can add to it and work the bugs out over time.
@@BAMFSpYdy That's good to know! Probably less buggy then iCue... Holy shit is that piece of software an absolute mess
@@Awkward_Fox yep, you'll have to remove all the RGB software on your PC before using openrgb. The Asus software was really hard to get rid of for me.
Good to know! Gonna try that out!
I call it the "Dell-ification" of the DIY PC market. And congratulations on the initiative, guys like Steve and Wendell are the best advocates we could have.
There was other companies doing this long before Dell. Some even tried to stop people from simply replacing basic generic parts, my favorite was about 25 years back when Compaq required their floppy drives and their PSU's standard floppy power connector so that installing a standard floppy drive would leave it burned out and the wiring on the Compaq PSU would burn off in a nice cloud of smoke, ah good times.
RGB is shit, the ACTUAL problem at hand now is insane x3-4 times GPU overprice.
>I remember when rx vega 56 and gtx 1070 was about 300USD when rtx 2000s realised was a good deal.
>I remember when gtx 1000s relised and gtx 980ti droped to 300USD as new and 980 below 300USD as new and some more.
everyone should remember that, but for some reason tech reviewers DON'T REMEMBER AND NEVER MENTION PRE-MINING PRICES, like mining prices are "the norm" now. they aren't. gold rush is gone, folks, all overpriced AF GPUs can do now is crap out in newest games.
thats why I blame tech reviewers for comparing current prices to mining-era 2017-2022 prices. they help corporations normalize x3-4 overprice we get now and then talk about how "GPU overprice is not their fault but corporations". well, its not directly, but tech reviewers are A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM.
@@johnanon6938 Ah, fuck! 🤣 Compaq with the damn OS/2 port to proprietarily lock customers into their hardware! Taiwanese manufacturers just made an adapter. Compaq got crushed! 😅😂❤
@@rawdez_the ai gold rush has just begun.
@@MrGamelover23 has nothing to do with GPUs, doesn't bring any money to GPU owners = its 100% irrelevant to GPU pricing.
"the ai gold rush" is a marketing made up fairy tale to try and keep x3-4 times GPU overprice to stay. nothing more. you can't make money with AI just by owning a GPU and running some program. mining was making money to GPU owners. that what definition of a "gold rush" is. "the ai ngreedia marketing crap" isn't a gold rush. at least not the type that is relevant to GPUs or their pricing in any way, shape or form.
I'm a really old tech guy. I was a Sr. Programmer/Analyst at Intel in the 80s & 90s. I was around to watch the Intel/Microsoft data exchange format adopted. Also to see Bluetooth consortium start. What you guys need is one really big name in the industry to get on board with you. Everyone else will start to join in out of their fear of being left out.
Already been tried sadly
I LOVE this concept! Standards should be open
Let me take it one step further, science should be open. Way too many (expensive) pay walls!!
@@p_mouse8676 Yeah, people shouldn't be paid for their work!
@@UncleKennysPlace Nice straw man, mate.
@@UncleKennysPlaceat best journals don't pay scientists or their employers, at worst they charge them. The push for open sourcing data seen in especially astronomy and particle physics has come *from* scientists and the people paying them.
@@UncleKennysPlace Those paywalls we're talking about do not result in people getting paid for their work. They only serve to restrict access to research data from the general public and line the pockets of the journals with the paywall.
When Wendell isn't sipping his tea, he watches it, longing for it.
that feel when eye-contact annoying so you stare at tea mmm yummy tea
I thought it was whiskey at first XD
@@karlkingofducks5764 well, I'm assuming it's tea tbh.
I ALSO LONG FOR WENDELL'S TEA
Its earl grey
This is a fantastic idea, guys. You should seriously consider getting Leonard French involved, he's an IP attorney who is a CZcamsr and creator on Floatplane, so the LMG guys should have a direct line to him if you should want to reach out.
Also love seeing these collaboration videos from you. They're honestly the best content to come out of Computex each year. It's a pity we don't see more collaboration like this year-round, but I guess most of you guys are fairly spread out geographically.
Louis Rossman and Futo might also be good to contact if funding is needed. Might be able to get a grant from him.
@@jimjones2001absolutely.
Between Wendell "level1 Tech", Gordon "PCWorld", Leo "KitGuru", and Steve they really should form some kind of Super Friends of Tech. By far the most trust worthy and knowledgeable people in the market. This might have been the best Computex with all the one on one sit down interviews. Thanks Steve
Techvengers! Assemble!
@@charlesfuzak 🙂
And Superman (Linus) resides alone in his fortress (the lab)
In my head i immediately saw them all stood together dressed as Turtles 🥷🐢
@@DimebagDarrenLowe Nah, Linus will be there too, he's the comic relief :P
You and Louis Rossmann are my favourite tech youtubers. Thanks for all you do for the little guys ❤
Same they actually work hard to make the world better.
Louis does some amazing work for things he is passionate about in the technology sector. I've only gotten to meet him once, but he was very generous with his knowledge and taught me a lot in the couple hours I was there!
@@GamersNexus You may not get to see this, but the reason you see this comment about Rossmann here is because of his recent talk of a new video app development.
In short, imagine if a creator is on 5 platforms, it will track and view videos from these 5 platforms, so if they are kicked off 1 platform, you will still get videos from the 4 others, basically making it really easy for content creators to become platform independent.
So that is why it fits so perfectly with your announcement here.
Their non profit might also be willing to help.
@@CMDRSweeperI've not heard about this app. Where can I find out more about this? I'll see if I can google it, very interesting considering what Twitch has been doing lately to their streamers and viewers. Less than 48 hrs later they decided to make a milder version of what they proposed. Almost like they had planned to negotiate down by giving a ridiculous offer first.
This sounds like a great and very necessary effort. The amount of proprietary, undocumented nonsense in the hardware and firmware industry has grown to ridiculous proportions these days. I'm glad to see some other people out there trying to make a difference. I'm the creator and maintainer of the OpenRGB project and I'd like to get in touch regarding RGB standardization and the work you're doing if that is of interest to you.
OpenRGB started out as me just being frustrated that all the different parts in my 2017-era Ryzen build wouldn't work on Linux or sync with each other. I was mainly upset at ASUS Aura for not having an SDK as Razer and Corsair did, so I was able to write a program to sync them. I spent several months reverse engineering the ASUS Aura physical interface with help from GitHub which spawned a massive hundred post thread and took some interesting turns until we finally landed on it being I2C/SMBus and that, at least on Windows, Aura was talking directly to the chipset's SMBus controller registers via IO port memory. From there I wrote some hacky test code that was able to control Aura from Windows and Linux. From there, OpenAuraSDK was born, and I then made a standard API for RGB control so that I could expand it to control all my hardware, then it just grew from there.
We've gotten quite good at reverse engineering all number of interfaces (USB HID, SMBus, NVIDIA GPU I2C, and more). I'd like to help!
Ur awesome brother
Next please do modular PSU cables. It's crazy that PSU cables can't be interchanged, sometimes even between different models of the same brand.
...first they want modular cables to get rid of the kraken inside the case.
...then they want nice looking braided cables to get rid of the ketchup and mustard optics... then they want individually braided cables in different custom colors and/or extensions.
...cables with RGB LEDs on them, yeah sure.
...now they want interchangeable standardized cables.
Can you please think of the next 5 steps ahead so we can do this all at once?
Maybe we just get rid of cables, plug everything directly into the motherboard, like with that ASUS GPU Power Plug thing, but with everything.
This is absolutely phenomenal. Not just great for consumers, but for the environment as well!
Steve mentioning the reduction of eco waste is a very important aspect of this. All of Corsairs iCue stuff is going to be landfill in a few years
I'm curious what "Level1Tech" understands as "open standard", when they think that a certain country with a one party system is more populist than the country they live in.
Not sure if there is a clear understanding of what a participatory system looks like.
Or perhaps they don't know what populist means but call their open standard organisation OpenPleb anyway.
Strange notion and maybe a little of foreboding there.
You guys should talk to the founders of OpenCompute to see what they did to get cooperation and move the industry and the organization to where it is today.
One aspect was/is as they mostly are the one using them, then cost and willingness to not be dependent on a single hardware supplier. Companies involved in OC are a billion dollar market, so there's a lot of willingness to build hardware that they want.
Like for network switches they all use the same open source Sonic OS. If your switch doesn't support it, they will buy one that does.
So in this case, consumers have to be ones, asking companies to support open standards.
If all of us start only buying OpenPleb compatible products, we'll be off to a good start. Publicizing and sharing this and showing manufacturers that there's interest
So, the idea isn't to make an open standard
It's to publicly list documentation for all the standards so everyone knows what stuff does WITHOUT source code
You should make sure the name isn't too specific like OpenRGB because you can expand the organization in the future to water pumps, Keyboards, Macros, stream decks, etc
1+ vote for OpenPleb
hey thanks for having me! this is gonna be great, I think
I avoided buying Corsair fans due to this very reason. I hate close standards and don't support it in any way. I'm glad some big names are fighting for us! Thanks for this
The only fans worth buying if you have the cash are Noctua's. They also the best looking fans that all the other companies keep trying to add more RGB to attempt to beat their style.
@@chronossage Yeah, and since noctua doesn't have RBG, all your money goes into fan design and not dumb leds with controllers.
@@Splarkszter A decent portion of the price of noctua fans is profit due to brand affiliation. Their fans being poo coloured is just their way of encouraging label zombies.
@@-opus man, you must really hate Noctua. what have they done to you? is your pc to quiet? airflow to high? cooling to efficient?
@@schwubbi Is anything that I said incorrect? You being a fanboy is clearly affecting your comprehension skills. Noctua make the best fans, but they perform only slightly better than quite a few other brands, while being ridiculously coloured and costing a lot more. 1, or 2 degrees is not worth anything.
I really like this. I really want to see software like OpenRGB being able to support literally everything.
Used OpenRGB to turn off motherboard RGB, it's the best RGB software and very light.
On the other hand, i tried Corsair icue once, it was almost 2GB in size and use over 0.5 GB of system ram in the background for some reason. Never again.
Unfortunately OpenRBG doesn't support everything. Not even close, I still have to resort to using Asus Armoury Crate bloatware on a modern Z690 board to properly control RGB for example.
@@KITOMERO i used a prerelease build to support my GPU.
But I'm a software dev, downloading a pipeline build isn't scary! But good RGB control should be open to everyone! Not just people who are devs. And also, not subscribed to signalrgb
THIS. In the future, I will only be purchasing RGB components and peripherals that work with OpenRGB. I am beyond tired of poorly designed (not matter how nice the UI looks) software that hogs system resources and crashes all the damn time. If I knew anything about engineering or coding, I'd be helping add to the list of supported components, but that's unfortunately way out of my depth.
@@IsleyNumber1 If only everyone was a software dev, right? For my 30 series GPU, I have to use the discontinued EVGA Precision since OpenRGB only supports 1 lighting zone out of the 3 zones, and it doesn't support the onboard GPU RGB header either.
OpenRGB also doesn't support my Lian Li ARGB light strips, nor the multizone lighting options on my fans, nor the RGB LED on my NVME drive.
So I'm currently using 4 different RGB software at the same time (not counting keyboard and mouse which is another 2).
As the owner of an AX1200i, I support this message. Seriously I got that PSU in like 2013 and it was a total fucking shit show at the time, sat on it after it died until near the end of my warranty, got a replacement, and the replacement worked for a while before exhibiting a similar failure mode, except it seems like it might actually be related to the issue you're talking about? It was shutting off and refusing to turn back on unless left at idle for a while, as if it had shut off from OCP or something and was waiting for a sensor to re-trip back to allow it to power on. I replaced it with an all analog Supenova 1300w G2 and it's been rock solid ever since (Thanks Kingpin for the recommendation). I am also the proud owner of a literal mountain of corsair RGB gear that's gonna be obsoleted once their link shit comes out from the looks of it. Hell my case even came with it integrated (free Commander Pro included with every 1000D). I hope they get on board and fix their shit lol
edit: I also want to add a note, if these companies want to act like apple and all have their own closed standards, they're not going to grow the market of people with "Apple Customer" levels of money to burn on shit. That market is essentially already saturated by Apple, and attempting to behave as if everyone can afford to spend that kind of money on all their tech purchases is disingenuous at best, and outright corporate suicide at worst. Open standards are what built this industry for these companies to play in today, and trying to take the industry away from that is a bad fucking move. This doesn't just apply to RGB, I've got my eyes set on that new power delivery slot on motherboards that every manufacturer seemed to have their own version of at Computex. Something like that HAS to be an open standard or it's bad for everybody, and even then switching to it will make all new GPUs no longer backwards compatible with old hardware either, so you would need to make two versions of every GPU for the foreseeable future if you want them to sell AT ALL, and that's WITH an open standard in place to help the process along. If the manufacturers insist on making it all proprietary they're gonna have a bad time. I could repeat these sentiments about any effort to make a new thing that's proprietary, which replaces an open standard.
I'm a cheapskate who's never touched RGB and you guys are making me feel very secure in my decision 😂 I'll keep an eye on your project though and see how things progress
RGB is great if you avoid all the proprietary crap or crap not supported by OpenRGB. I decided to do that, so my current build does not have any RGB. Corsair stands to lose the most from an open standard FYI. They have been flipping non-standard controllers and stuff for years in order to inflate their profit margins. It has gotten to the point that even if I do an RGB build, I avoid Corsair. They used to be a gold standard for me, now I don't even do builds, recommend, give away, or sell things involving them. I swapped to NZXT for fans and basically anyone else except gigabyte and corsair for PSUs.
@@richongaming I already have a lava lamp, i don't need another. You can keep your RGB. What i want is a simple way to shut that shit off.
RGB has always reminded me of spinning wheel rims and neon running boards in the auto world. And the joke there has always been "Hey guys look! Jethro got a raise!"
Now you NEED to buy the RGB model or you can't turn the damn lights off. We need a consumer revolution
@@richongaming arctic is pretty much the only company I'll buy fans and cooling hardware from
So great to see you both presenting together!
The #1 reason I don't use anything RGB is because of all the cables and lack of a standard. Followed closely by the almost malware RGB software.
I can understand that. I have a few too many ARGB products, but they're all using standard ARGB connectors and being run using OpenRGB.
It takes a bit of research to make sure the products I get are supported, but I feel it's definitely worth it.
Wendell and Steve drinking tea and reading the newspaper. Always a combination for a new consortium.
I use OpenRGB for the few LEDs in my rig. I didn't want to bother with proprietary crap that starts binding me to a brand or mentality. It's so simple and straightforward and does what I want without me having to ever deal with it. Lightweight, open-source solution that's brand agnostic.
But I love this idea. Having a standard benefits everyone. Inter-compatibility encourages competition, as no one will be bound to a single brand, allowing free-choice and integration.
absolutely loving these long conversation videos
Another positive feature for this initiative could be a WIndows Ring0 hardware control library that isn't basically a rootkit and riddled with security holes.
you've got it backwards, the rootkit IS the purpose of IME.
@@Tabrias07 I don't disagree, but to be fair didn't AMD refuse to make their equivalent thing (forgot the name) open source?
@@sean8102 PSP - Platform Security Processor. If my memory serves me well :)
YES! Windows desperately needs a standardized subsystem for I2C/SMBus access. On OpenRGB we have to rely on these third party libraries (inpout32/WinRing0) which land us on anti-cheat block lists (though it's the trash anti-cheats doing this, not these libraries). We needs to use WinRing0 because Windows doesn't offer proper ways to access I2C, so we have to basically talk directly to the chipset registers in the I2C controller from userspace by porting parts of the Linux I2C drivers. It's absolutely ridiculous that this is necessary to access an interface that every desktop PC has had going back decades on the world's most widely used operating system for desktop PCs.
It’s Groundhog day! 40 years ago the same issues arose with S100 bus then later with SCSI, IDE/ATA, floppy disk media/drives, programming languages and alike. Getting consensus often takes an eternity rendering the effort futile. e.g. By the time SCSI-2 was mostly sorted IDE/ATA emerged as a much cheaper alternative leaving it for the only expensive machines.
The lead programmer of OpenRGB, CalcProgrammer1, put out a video talking about OpenPleb today on his CZcams channel. It's got some interesting info about what their current reverse engineering process is like and how much something like OpenPleb could help.
Wendell is an international treasure, and you guys together are doing god's work.
They are doing fairy tales, wilful delusion, corruption, greed, racism, inbreeding and war?
They are like the Blues Brothers of tech. "We're on a mission from God."
Thank you for this! OpenRGB is actually pretty great and is able to sync all of my RGB devices (including mouse and keyboard) EXCEPT for my ASRock GPU. If I wanted to sync my GPU with everything else I'd have to plug everything into IT.
And then my keyboard and mouse wouldn't be able to sync 😑
My powercolor 7900xtx is the only thing OpenRGB doesn't work with for me.
Bump for OpenRGB, seems like the most straightforward option.
Can confirm: Open RGB is based.
I was also surprised why they didn't name it OpenRGB, but then I remembered that OpenRGB already existed to solve this exact issue. Would be cool to team up with them.
OpenRGB works, I just have to re apply any time my pc goes to sleep…
I mean they pretty much all use WS2812B LEDs. Maybe some will even use WS2813 LEDs in the future. (Or WS2811 like the old NZXT stuff)
Point being they all use the same stuff and could all be controlled with each other. And if they don't have dedicated controllers in the products itself you can adapt their "proprietary" connectors to what ever you need.
Before all this PC RGB nonsense happened there was already a quasi standard for addressable RGB LEDs. Pretty much everything used the JST-SM connector but then when the PC market came they used other connectors out of the necessity of pcb mountabiliy. The 3-Pin Pin header is really bad but is the most we got towards a standard for PCs.
Really glad you try to bring the industry to work together. I really hope this works out and we can have a future where you're not bound to staying in one system or to have 3 different controllers for you system.
I have a mountain of old hardware that was all working perfectly well that became obsolete because driver support ended when new versions of the OS arrived. I think it's crazy, the shear level of waste created. This all sounds like a great 1st step. Getting everyone onboard & opening things up on other equipment & tech, that's a HUGE mountain to climb. I'd love to think this is the start of something that will help fix the problem. I modified drivers myself to make things work but sometimes there just wasn't enough info or the drivers were all in machine code & you really need the source code to re-compile. If the equipment has been obsoleted & consigned to the past, why not just put the info out there. I know, I do get it, it's not that simple, there is IP & some gets carried forward so they don't share but still, if we want change it has to start somewhere. I hope this is a start & some folks listen. Start simple & build your bridges from there.
Hope it works out. Noble cause and all.
i faced similar BS while working as an auto mechanic. most if not all upper end euro cars for example have way too much proprietary nonsense. just like the special license software shops have to buy which is ridiculously expensive just to find out if the voltage of a module was .2v out of spec or other small diag steps that used to be easy years pass but now no longer the story.
this makes me so happy to hear about! I haven't even tried getting the RGB stuff on my PC configured properly -- I've turned the transparent part of my PC away from me so that I'm not distracted by the default uncoordinated rainbow vomit settings
I went out of my way and got a pc case with solid panels, they are a bit of a rarity these days though unfortunately. The industry appears to be heading towards cases with glass on at least 2 sides, completely daft.
I want to thank both of you for bring this to the forefront. So I did start to use Corsair’s fan control header/ rgb controller around 2016. Later in a upgrade around the Ryzen 3000 series timeline I again used Corsair’s equipment again. I spent a lot of money on all those expensive accessories all to discover the massive cabling nightmare and buggy software issues. Corsair I sold all that crap and don’t take this the wrong way because I do use your other products just not that proprietary mess of RGB crap anymore. Today I use analog based RGB equipment from EKWB. EKWB please don’t not do what these other companies are doing.
This would be fantastic. The proprietary standards issue was the first thing that came to mind when I saw all the RGB connectors. Maybe you could eventually have standards organizations, like designing where the holes on the back side of a motherboard tray go for back-mounted connectors.
Noctua has RGB perfectly done! my opinion :)
I love when Steve's righteous fury gets turned into action.
A bit of advice - The WS2182 LED, commonly referred to as a NeoPixel in the Maker community, uses 4 pins: 5V, GND, and Data I/O. You only really need a 3-pin connector on the input side, and have the programming automatically add the new LEDs dynamically, and they can already be daisy chained.
To be honest, I thought that all (or at least most) of the '5V ARGB' strips on the market WERE strings of WS2182, or one of the other World Semiconductor offerings or their clones. Is that not already what they are?
We need this so bad, just imaging having your motherboard be able to adjust the case fans based on gpu temp from the bios settings, having rgb software that is not garbage, being able to read sensors, know what they are, and how that data is formated, or even being able to read voltages on AMD GPUs in linux (all you get now is what power play table sets the voltage to)
I appreciate the sober & on topic work from both of you; I look forward to this joint venture.
ive seen that proprietary problem in the smartphone, laptop world, and now also in the 3d printing world where nobody said a bad word about it! a mainboard at the printhead with proprietary connectors . no tinkering in 3-5 years for 3d printing allowed due to this process.
thank you steeeeeeveee!!
The "problem" as explained at 07:20 is exactly what companies (at least their management) want! Short-term revenue gain trumps any potential long-term maintenance costs, especially when it also gives them a quasi-monopoly to act in a position of power towards the customer to force them to buy into their new product line or at least shift part of those costs off to them.
Installing a couple RGB fans should be as simple as running the wires to the appropriate spot. (Not a proprietary hub with proprietary connectors), and the software should be simple and lightweight. Open RGB is the only thing I recommend to people even if your effect options are more limited because it works at startup, and it closes itself after applying the lights you asked for. I'm someone who sets things to a static color and leaves them, so it's perfect for me. If you want to have 16 colors from one fan that chase each other around in a special way, you will need the fan companies proprietary bloatware to do it. Maybe with this new project more people can enjoy things that were meant to be enjoyed all along.
OpenRGB is great, but if you have a piece of hardware that isn't supported (looking at you, ASRock GPU) it's not very useful if you want to sync everything.
Openrgb has the effects and mapping plugins so you can even make all the flashing and blinking effects if you really want to
I was scared away from that because of some compatibility issue that could hurt my hardware, it made me worry I’d there was something else I missed that it could hurt it even if I didn’t have that particular hardware.
Yes! You guys are the perfect start to fixing all this madness!!! I'm SO EXCITED and confident things will get better compatibility in the future. You should also get other big YT'ers to join you, no doubt should be no problem to get Linus, Jay, Paul and all the funny sounding Aussie and British guys too!
I'm in, sign me up! The best idea ever, thank you guys for this initiative 🤩🙌🏻👏🏻
Really awesome you guys are taking this step.
My solution to this was to just not use RGB anymore. It's turning into a compatibility and wiring nightmare, it inflates prices, and honestly how much time do I spend staring at my computer case? Yeah, I'm done.
Probably the most excited I've been in the tech space since Raytracing, chiplet designs, and V-Cache technologies went mainstream. This is amazing. Please, for the love of god, create a donation system for this org, so we can help throw some financial backing behind this.
I love the language you guys use in your professionally presenting videos. Never change.
great idea, thanks for the extra effort for both of your teams for helping the community/consumer.
I just want to give proper to Wendell for the wight loss! He's been killing it!
Okay, NOW you definitely have the best Computex coverage. Best non-product of Computex so far! Thank you guys for doing this.
This is awesome. To be fair about one aspect of this, we have 12v RGB and 5v RGB. There aren't 100 different voltages. So there has been agreement on this in the past. To see Steve put this much effort into RGB, that we all know he hates, is akin do me designing bespoke socks for spiders.
Awesome. Thank you. This is really a good approach. Also all that RGB clutter is why I made my own RGB controller and RGB strips and cables, because it all sucks. Especially software.
What I like about Lian Li's system that they give you the option to connect to your motherboard's rgb outputs or use other rgb components into their controller/system with standard jst to 3 pin argb adapters
One standard to rule them all, one standard to find them, one standard to bring them all, and in the rainbow bind them; in the land of PCs where the RGB lies.
Standardization of RGB and Fan connectors must be implemented. This is a great idea. I had a pre-installed case fan that stopped working but was unable to replace it because it had a proprietary 6 pin design. Not even for sale individually from the Case/fan manufacturer. The replacement process took over 7 months.
kudos to you and Wendell, if there is one thing that royally annoys me is when a company insists on proprietary connectors no matter what sector it is in for reasons, even when my younger brother bought Neumann's NDH-30s and I found out they had a proprietary connector I was like WHY!?, 3.5m jack works just fine.
The best thing with standards is that there is so many to choose from.
"Sullen and angry also works here." Oh my sides I am laughing because it is so true. I have largely abandoned lighting my system, for two reasons, one it's gaudy as frick and blacked out just looks good. The other reason is because of proprietary BS like this.
100% this. I had an old Dell T7500 I was gaming on for a while. Upgraded all the internals but decided to keep the case. The RGB RAM is doing something inside, but the whole case is solid so I can't see, so it doesn't matter.
Thanks for being our beacon to remove this proprietary nonsense that hurts consumers pockets! I really love the idea and 100% support it. Just a thought, is it possible to build an opensource HW/SW that could translate or unify all other RGB HW/SW? I guess it is a problem and more effort to support new compatibilities as wendell mentioned. same as what android open forums are doing now. it will be a neverending reverse engineering and support.
Working in consumer devices in a more niche industry than PCs, I've seen how hard it is to get buy in from developers and teams for features that you personally think are important. Making it possible for independent developers to extend functionality is huge for making more useful and robust software
Would something sorta like the USB HID protocol require license fees? That thing about devices identifying themselves and informing the computer what inputs and outputs they got, and sending and receiving values for each thing, sounds like it would work quite well both for RGB as well as for sensors and fan control.
Maybe you will find this interesting. In the semiconductor and microelectronics field there is already a movement for opensource tools and processes(as in 130nm mosfets). These kind of software is very expensive amd is very hard to obtain for some universities.
thank you for creating this, ive been trying toi unite my RGB for years using all kinds os software and being picky with selections of hardware when building pcs and ive deffinatly suffered broken leds and mice and its not even a year old my latest PC
Sharing this video to everyone I know. honestly I know its just words at this stage but goddamn I truely hope something comes of this!
Bravo for even considering taking on this behemoth of an idea.
This is a fantastic idea! Just a heads up: If you can manage to get at least 1 big company that uses RGB on your side. then the rest will eventually follow. Keep fighting the good fight Steve & Wendell! I will also inform Aris and the community!
Also, try to get in touch with the Signal RGB people, they have some good ideas
they don't support ANY amd gpu rgb. they are also saying for years now that they are working on it but just don't
@@raunchyNO I have a Red Devil 6750xt, and l, in order to get it to function through aura i have to plug in an Argb 3pin from the card to the mb, so I can kinda see why they haven't made any progress so far
Wasn't Microsoft going to integrate RGB controls directly in their OS?
Might be an idea to contact them for the open standard idea, so it goes together smoothly.
Yes, and it's started to show up in insider builds. Nothing functional yet though
Exactly what I was thinking
This sounds like an extremely good idea! Im keeping my fingers crossed for the two of you that it takes off like a rocket !
Yeah, please do this. I get what an undertaking it will be, hopefully something worthwhile will come of it. I've actively resisted RGB devices due to this kind of thing, but recently got sucked into the Lian Li SL series fans (thanks Jay). 4 months later I replace a case and need a couple more fans only to find there are now 2 FRIGGING INCOMPATIBLE GENERATIONS OF THESE ALREADY and of course, I came home with the wrong ones. I returned those, bought all-black Arctic fans for everything and the damn Lian Li fans are now e-waste. ENOUGH, I'm DONE with RGB until there is some sort of standard. $200 down the drain over stupid proprietary lights.
I think it was Hardware Unboxed that reported that ASUS was able to make a high end motherboard focused on functionality. And not aesthetics and knick-knack. And was able to shave 80 dollars of the price. I mean if people want to pimp out their motherboards. Be my guest. But do it on your own dime. I just want my motherboard to function well. Not looking like an amusement park at night
It was Asrock I believe
@@HappyCupsInc Yeah you may be correct. My bad but my argument is still valid
It was Asrock that is selling the anti rgb gamer bloated boards.
The absolute joy when the fan off a £17.50 Assassin King SE cooler had a splitter so I could plug IT into the ONE ARGB header on the overpriced ROG mobo and use the splitter to connect the expensive Eiswolf2.
It's always the cheap stuff just works.
Seriously this is so needed, and i will support you 100% of the way. F*** all these different RGB connectors, such a nightmare!
The crazy thing is that there are actually ample standards already. USB, I2C they are established standards. Heck the 4-pin fan header is mostly "standardized". What we lack is a major of manufacturers that is willing to be forthcoming about their attribute and register implementations. So your idea to pool documentations and standards really hits the right bullseye.
Bless Wendell
Gosh dang this would be fantastic if it got picked up by manufacturers
It would mean I could stick with using OpenRGB for my RGB stuff and just have everything work, instead of also requiring random bits of bloatware from 3 different manufacturers
Very cool initiative. Hope I will be here to see it come to reality.
Praying some of the companies are on board because that pretty much forces the rest behind it too.
Thanks Steve! Back to you Steve! Thanks for creating OpenPleb (love the name) Wendell and Steve!
Bless you guys for this sensible effort. The consumer is always the most powerful leg in a healthy market system. We just need to channel our energy, money and demands to best be heard and consulted about what we want.
I totally agree, let’s make this a reality
Awesome! The first thing that comes to mind is that it would make OpenRGB device implementation so much easier.
This is wonderful. I am currently using a software called SignalRGB to tame the RGB mess. I have an NZXT controller that is a nightmare to work with. They actively obfusicate its USB descriptors and works against any standard. It is so stupid that even their CAM software doesnt work with it properly if you are using your own LED hardware!
Also there are some open source projects that have software solutions that are excellent like Fan Control for windows but wont work with many of the ofboard controllers. I was trying to write an extension for NZXT contrroller and ran up against a wall of idiocy.
But deriving a common standards based approach for simple technical tasks like controlled RGB leds or connecting sensors across the USB or SMBus is not far fetched. Nuvoton is a prominent chip player that has SMBus interfaces for their chips. It beats me why we can't bring all these tech together and create an open standard.
There should be Physical Inteconnect, Signalling and software standards. It will only make hardware easier to work during computer builds especially for the enthusiast.
I love the idea behind this! Really cool to see you guys use your influence for something like this. Although, I think I'd have to pass on OpenPleb as a name
OpenChad versus ProprietaryPleb
Awesome idea! I just had to install 3 different bits of software on my new PC to set everything how I wanted, and then some of them would conflict and it was a mess. Just one piece of software to do it all without bloat would be incredible. Are you taking donations yet?
how is the new editing PC. i hope someday you join Steve from HUB for a fortnite match.
@@tanmaypanadi1414 It's going well!
Brilliant solution and wonderful collab
DUUUUUDE!!! THIS IS AMAZING!!! I'm so excited for this to take off!
Didn't expect you two to team up on this but I'm here for it! I already use OpenRGB and Fan Control because MSI's software is sh*t. Had Gigabyte before and it was also sh*t. Though something happened with my mobo's build in lights and they stopped working but oh well.
Microsoft is also trying to get a default standards of sorts. In one of the recent alpha builds, it is considering adding RGB lighting control built into Windows OS.
though watch that somehow lock out linux use even more
So that we can have another crap rgb software right from stock lol
Yes but then you are using Windows…
Gold content. Logical. At this point, some good will towards the consumers could go a long way for the entire industry. Been actively avoiding RGB and closed system models for a while.
Great video im in. This should be the STANDARD for any online game or game that NEEDS to connect to internet to play so they can last the test of time as well
I hope you and Louis Rossmann collaborate on this. He's been been fighting this sort of thing for few years.
About open sensors and sensor clusters/RGB? I know he's been doing a lot for right to repair, but that's a bit different (and something we also support!)
@@GamersNexus One of the aspects of right to repair involves opening up technical documentation to independents. So there is some direct alignment in scope if not purpose.
Not sure if Brand X is going to want to print pleb on the box though. It's funny, but you might have an easier sell with something less effacing. OpenShine, OpenWorks, OpenConnect, OpenGold, UniGlow, LightNet, etc.
Maybe just call it OpenWallet to reel in the manufacturers quickly and then change the name after it becomes the standard. :-D
I thought my first RGB build would be my last because of armoury crate, but if this works, I might actually make another one
Of all the RGB software out there, Armory Crate is definitely one of the worst.
@@blazingliger2246 You haven't tried ASRock Polychrome RGB then. Armoury Crate is nowhere near the best but it is not the worst.
@@CalcProgrammer1 I'll take your word for it. I do really despise how Armory Crate installs itself and is so hard to get rid of, though.
Oh this. Standardized interfaces (i.e. I2C, CAN, SMBus, USB) and a defined hardware-software layer for anyone who'd want to control stuff themselves. For example, off the shelf sensors and fan controllers that talk through SMBus or I2C, a similar method for RGB control, define lighting control zones and levels for patterns, device capability identifiers (to tell the controller how to control things, how complex could you get RGB patterns for example) and fallback methods to allow different fans work with fancier ones i.e. more lighting zones and brightness control or fan speed...and more
As for naming...the basic bus which is directly compatible with regular headers can be named Universal Fan Bus and the full interface Integrated RGB Interconnect System (IRIS) that provides the rest. The standard may be named Smart RGB (referring to the Smart Battery standard that all laptops since mid 2000s with removable batteries would support, talk through SMBus) if ever consolidated. Would this be a consortium?
Love it! My favorite Enterprise guy with my favorite PC guy, working together for the good of consumers! Excellent!
The right to repair vibes I'm getting from this are glorious
I remember when fans had no lights and they only served to cool stuff, not to make your system look like an alien abduction spaceship.
You can still get regular fans if you want to
@@simpson6700It seems harder and harder every day, that's when they're not more expensive.
@@offspringfan89 bequiet and noctua will always offer LED-less fans
I've professionally been in the IT industry since starting out as a programmer/analyst in the mid-80s.
The issue of proprietary "standards" and "vendor lock-in" has been around for a very long time.
It's this constant cycle of new, proprietary tech that then falls by the way-side that has made me actively pursue and prefer open-source software, open-standards H/W and so on.
OpenRISC/RISC-V for processors, Arduino and similar systems are definitely the way to go.
With regard to RGB subsystems (fans, lights etc), proprietary connectors are a total PITA. Why they don't use something like USB-C to ensure all RGB devices can inter-connect is beyond me.
Great discussion as always. I haven't ripped and RGB device open lately, bit im assuming they are running the same WS281x style controllers that every other rgb sector is running. Especially the 5v ARGB implementations. I look at reaching out to the (heavly overlapping) maker community thats putting out great work. The Adafriut/sparkfuns/digikeys of the world.
Most of them are running WS28xx ARGB LEDs. Keyboards and some others are still often using analog 4-pin RGB LEDs with a matrix driver though, but fans/strips/coolers that connect to an ARGB header are just WS28xx.
Standards are important. I would love RGB standards.