Jaeger-leCoultre could be so much better
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Jaeger-leCoultre is an iconic brand. The reverso is an icon. The Polaris is cool, but often JLC is also kind of "Meh...." and they get flack for raising prices by 30-40% in one go. They're probably doing fine as a business but for such an iconic brand, they could be so much better.
In this video, I discuss the problems I think JLC has and how they could potentially improve their brand.
Enjoy.
Cheers.!
For inquiries and collabs: twtw.mike@gmail.com
Their lack of popularity is what appeals to me as a consumer. I have a Rolex and a Cartier but only wear my reverso. I like the fact it’s less obvious and no one I know recognises the brand. It makes it feel more exclusive.
Agree on that point 😀
Cartier now are hype love them but in my country not very popular only women versions
Am in complete agreement with you. I don't want watches that people (and thieves) can identify at 30 paces distance. I also don't want a watch that sells from the hype generated around it as being a "must have" (looking at you Rolex, Omega, and Cartier). There are incredible luxury brands that fly slightly under the radar, that watch connoisseurs and collectors are aware, that compel people to as "what is that beautiful watch! Who makes it" instead of "That's a Rolex, isn't it?" Luxury manufacturers that appeal to me are of course JLC (dress watches), Girard-Perregaux (for the integrated sports watch "Laureato"), Glashutte Original (they have a wide selection that I love), Grand Seiko (incredible watches, I love the creativity of the dials, the case designs, the materials used, the finishing, and the movements). Longines produces beautiful watches that are ones I'd wear to work or for an everyday watch). Then there are the smaller "boutique" brands like MORITZ GROSSMANN (just wow!), F.P. Journe, and Grönefeld that you really have to be in the know to find them.
I gotta say, I consume a lotta watch content. But these days your channel has risen to the top for me and I’m not even a customer of any brand over 3k
Thank you - Really happy that you enjoy my contribution to the watch world 😊😊
Stop buying shitters and focus on saving up. The purchase has gotta hurt!!
@@MS-tg6hcok Archie .
Anyone who thinks a 3 K is a shitter is ethier deluded or playing a character like U .
Hey Archie I ❤ Vostok .😂
best watch channel going around now
@@MS-tg6hcremove the horns.
I have owned and daily-worn my JLC Geophysic 1958 for a decade now and absolutely LOVE it! Amazing piece from an amazing Manufacturer.
You are one of the rare enthusiasts that put your money where your mouth is. A lot of collectors, including CZcamsrs applaud JLC and Breguet as being underrated and worthy of holy trinity status but none have ventured into ownership of a JLC watch. Instead they're buying Grand Seiko and niche micro brands.
I had a Geophysic 1958 and loved it. Moved it on after a few years, but was glad to own it. I do think where the brand is now feels different from back in 2014 though, and not in a good way.
I love the Geophysics 1958!
JLC has so many heavy hitters in their back catalogue. Not sure why don’t get back to their roots.
I think JLC is the IYKYK high end watch brand. As someone told me a few weeks ago while wearing my Grande Reverso 976: this is what quiet luxury its all about! Why having what everyone's got on their wrists in a room full by mostly mainstream second market overpriced Rolexes. Btw I also have the Polaris no date black dial! Personally this is what I like about JLC: its artisanal craftsmanship and finesse. It's a feeling you don't get with other brands. Don't get overexcited by the hype. Greetings from Ecuador!!
This is an incredible breakdown. I'm not biased towards any brand. I think the challenge, which you touched on, is that the flagship watch is the reverso and in order to understand how great a rectangular watch is, you need to actually try it on. I purchased a small seconds in Green 1 year after trying it on at a boutique - before the price hike . I simply could not get it out of my head. I was not expecting to like it. But once on the wrist, I could truly appreciate it. I've never seen anyone else where a reverso in person. I where mine dressed down with jeans and a T Shirt. It's the watch that gets the most compliments. The green and unique rectangular shape really makes it pop. Notwithstanding the lack of reverso's I see in real life, I almost feel it makes it more special. The hype around these popular steel models arguably makes them boring due to oversaturation of images and video content. I'm torn, I want JLC to get more credit but I also love that its a best kept secret amongst watch enthusiasts. Do you not think, if it got that 'hype' watch it would counteract the quiet luxury positioning?
Thank you for the feedback. 😊😊
As to your point - There's a reason that JLC is often associated with enthusiasts. You have to be a bit non-conformist to fall for a square watch from a non household name brand. Anybody can fall in love with Rolex branding. Walking into a JLC boutique takes a conscious decision that not many make. And buying a REverso over a Speedy (or some other watch)? That's not something that happens often 😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I agree with your point, I think one of the big pulls for the brand is that silent luxury positioning, its that 'if you know, you know' factor. Maybe that is the point of the JLC positioning. When it comes to Rolex especially, when I see someone wearing one, it's like the equivalent of a VW Golf. Great watch, but it's the easy option for those that don't know. Also too many good looking fakes. I like your comparison between JLC and VC. Apart from the 222 I find VCs very unremarkable from.a design perspective. Even the bracelet design of the Overseas is a miss. Looking forward the to next video
Once again I am amazed how good your analysis is, we are just nor used to this level of quality on youtube, not in the watch space nor anywhere else. About JLC, Richemont will just not let them compete with Vacheron. Its the same story as Longines and Omega, and there are other examples. They could do so much better by refocusing their catalog, the way they are now, they are a all-rounder that cant really excel on any of multiple fronts they try to excel at
Totally d‘accord with that!
the price hikes were just to much for me - JLC increase prices by up to 40% on some models - for the exact same watch.
I was thinking on getting their Master Control Chrono Calender which was around 15k two years ago, but they increase that to 20k (25%) in just one year.
I agree with most of what you said - the Polaris has just too much good competition in that price range, plus its bracelet is terrible.
Same with the Polaris , was $8.5k and now
Got a Reverso medium thin (I’m a smaller guy) for the birth of my first son and then a Master Geographic from the secondary market because I wanted to the smaller 39mm size. I had a soft spot for the brand. It was close to my heart because they had offerings and heritage that could be purchased by an average guy. It made me feel like “Hey, I can have nice things too.” I’m a tad bitter after the price increase. We could have done great things together.
JLC is by far my favourite brand and I am lucky enough to own an ultra thin. BUT their recent price hikes were difficult to accept, I will not buy their product at retail anymore.
They don't care because they don't want you as a customer anymore, that's a big reason why the price hiked occurred.
@@BoleDaPole this is an interesting point, because I want to build a 3 watch collection from JLC, I would be a returning customer and an advocate for the brand.
But I’m assuming they want more high-end clientele, which causes a couple of issues for JLC. From a pop culture perspective I don’t believe JLC has enough weight in terms of brand popularity, as they don’t offer what is hot at the moment. (A true Sports models).
Many won't, I expect. 😊😊
@@BoleDaPoleI see your point only thing is that currently in 2024 people will buy a Patek calatrava for double the price before they get a JLC ultra thin . It’s how people who can afford one think in general . Am not talking about watch enthusiasts am talking about folks who have the money to buy a JLC and want the status that goes with it . Again just my opinion . JLC will have to go through pain before they are sitting up there where they want to go.
Current economic climate is not going to be easy to make people spend £10k and ones who can in this market with high interest rates can very well spend £20k for a calatrava or patrimony or code 11
You can always go to an authorized dealer maybe not the boutique and ask what they can do for you. Someone is always ready to deal, shop around.
Watch inside resonate with me much deeper than much of the content on CZcams. Thank you for making these happy videos and I selfishly asked for you to keep doing so
👍👍👍
Like your takes. Here I have 2 points:
1. While I agree on the utility of a dressy-tool spectrum, I find I don't agree with some of your specific placements, e.g. of the Rolex models
2. Your advice towards the end, of removing some options such as the steel moonphase, is decidedly pro-business and anti-consumer. More choices at attractive prices are better for buyers
My perception is that the whole video is purposefully pro-business.
It is very pro business for sure. This was not a "do what the enthusiasts want" video. This was a "let's figure out a way to make more money for JLC video".... 😂😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch There is win-win pro-business (i.e. it is pro-consumer as well, for example innovating new tech that saves costs, boosts performance and/or lowers price). Then there's pro-business at the expense of consumers and other stakeholders; think zero-sum, vulture capitalism, and other forms of corporate malfeasance. Raising prices while providing little tangible benefit belongs in the latter category.
I get this may be your expertise, but curious as to why you think watch enthusiasts would be interested in corporate advice that mainly pads the bottom line, while arguably detrimental to the hobby?
This grey Polaris Chronograph is just so nice!
Agree 😊
Richemont killed the myth and magic of JLC tbh.
How?
Exactly
@@Nextman916 Their current catalog seems intentionally limited. JLC have the engineering and artistic ability to produce new models but I guarantee you Richemont put a cap on stuff like that so the brands under their umbrella don't compete with each other.
@@Nextman916if you’ve been interested in luxury watches over the past decade you’d know how.
And who wants to see Reversos advertised at bus stops (as JLC now does, at least in Australia)…?
JLC should pay you for this video as a consulting fee 👌 very insightful & great video as always
I'll send them a bill and see what happens. 😂😂
Your analysis is superb and unparalleled in the watch community. You have a new subscriber. Keep it up!
thank you - I will try my best 😊😊
Sounds like a solid pitch for the CMO position. You have my vote. JLC should be more front of mind when thinking of top brands. Great content.
Like I said to another commenter - "heck no. I just want to talk. I don't actually want to do the work... " 😂😂 But thanks for sure 😃😃
You are the most knowledgeable on watch matters and your presentation is always worth watching. I learn a lot.
It’s like listening to a professor at the University
Very kind of you 😊
Great analysis, love that you actually bring some unique content, keep it up!!
Will try my very very best .😃
i enjoy watching your videos. Very insightful! Keep up the great work.
I'm just happy you enjoy them and keep coming back - thanks 😀
I appreciate your thoughts and analyses as the apply to a number of other markets like high-end audio and cars etc..
thanks a ton 😊😊
You really know what works on a thumbnail, don’t you lol. I’m after that chrono big time - need to see the blue one too. Love JLC, they don’t do everything right but I reckon they have strong bones and it will carry them through.
JLC will be fine for sure. And as for the thumbnail - Yes. CZcams demands a catchy thumbnail 😂😂
Thank you, Mike, excellent analysis as always.
A funny story:
My first exposure to JLC was through my divorce attorney, many years ago.
At that time my daily wear was a Submariner and my passion was-and is sailing.
He wore a Master Ultrathin and to this day I associate JLC with a $400/hr suit that wouldn’t get his hands dirty and didn’t know the difference between a tack and a jibe!
Anyone who wants a rectangular watch will also consider Cartier in the tank and Santos line, arguably much more practical daily wear propositions.
JLCs true hero model should be the Polaris with more sporty bracelet and rugged design philosophy.
They simply do not have a convincing entry do it all model to attract a massive following.
JLC is simply positioned as if its still the 60s and haven’t caught up to the dynamics of the current market preferences for sport watch designs.
The Reverso could compete with the Santos if the spec was changed. 100m resistance, rubber integrated strap design and more rugged overall case. Beveled grooves instead of rounded, etc.
Agree so much. I with a big wrist won’t be able to wear and look good in a reverso.
Also the Cartier tank looks better and a little cheaper.
I really tried looking to buy a JLC. There just aren’t any good options. Polaris I feel is to overpriced. Especially 42 hour power reserve or whatever they have.
Agree on the lack of a really strong entry model. IT's just not there... 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch yea i have no problem with JLC raising prices, but heritage in it self is not convincing enough at least not anymore. The competition is fierce and looks like JLC simply gave up on the entry level market. This seems to be a pretty big mistake as it will cost them credibility and market brand awareness in the long term, and their top end models are not as convincing as the competition.
Seems like they have dug themselves a hole.
I was preparing to buy an entry level quartz JLC Reverso a few years back. I had the 5ish K CAD in my account and was getting ready to go off to the boutique when I decided to look at photos of it online again... discovering that that same watch was now almost 9K CAD. At that point I realised that JLC wasn't a reasonable company, and wrote them off forever.
I had a JLC Memovox Master Compressor. I loved that watch but sending it back to JLC for a service was a nightmare, 4 months for a service!. Upon its return I noticed a build up of condensation and had to return it. Three months later, it was returned and I got a full refund and an apology from JLC. I fell out of favour with it and managed to sell it for a few hundred pounds more then I bought it. I’m now wanting another!
I've had a similar experience with JLC - Their QC has not always impressed me 😀
Concise, insightful analysis as usual, keep up the good work.
Glad you enjoyed it! as always 😀😀
I very much look forward to your weekly commentary. Thank you
Thanks for stopping by as always 😊😊
JLC is really a favorite of mine, I even bought a Reverso at the boutique last year for my 40th birthday 😅😂😊. Great work I really enjoyed the video, you should take the time to have the factory tour, it's awesome 😊 those people do love what they do. I agree they could do way better, so much potential.
Thank you - was not aware it was possible. Will have to look into it next time I'm in the area .😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch you have to contact them first and make a reservation, of course you cannot just show up at the gates😉 plenty of informations and the contacts are available on the website, you won't regret it
It's a good saturday when TW,TW posts a video!
lol 😂😂
This is a great video- a question I've been struggling with a lot myself since I love JLC. I purchased a JLC MC Date in blue and love that watch for its simplicity and versatility. But I was only interested in the blue version, which made me realize JLC does not offer many color variations in their models- they are almost all silver or black dials. People love color! JLC leans in hard to their art deco themed Reverso yet doesn't offer a salmon or emerald dial color on any of its models; these colors were very popular during the 30s and 40s. I'd also like to see them experiment more with textured dials- we saw this in their Polaris Mariner Date and I believe it's gotten noticed. I say this because their resale price isn't much lower than the retail listing with tells me its more popular than initially assumed. Most JLC watches are matte or sunburst dials. These are great but some variety would be greatly welcomed. Anyway, those are my initial thoughts.
Bought a Master Control Geographic, 2 months ago. Absolutely stunning watch, but only because the AD swapped the brown with a blue leather strap, also from JLC. What a difference that made to the aesthetics. Your 3rd solution is paramount: put these movements into aesthetically pleasing designs and then see how they take off.
A case in point: Vacheron/ AP actually used the same JLC movement in their dual time back in circa ~2015. VC/AP came with steel casing and bracelet. When I put my watch and the others side by side, the VC/AP looked like a gmt tool watch - I would TAKE either over any base rolex or GMT all day. But the JLC looked like a classier complicated dress watch and it got me wondering, if had a steel bracelet would that make it a tool watch and be more pleasing. And that is the problem for me with JLC: what's your market and do you have the right look - I personally don't like the polaris: too big, and not the sportier look you get on a daytona, el Primero or speedmaster - that rugged manly look.
The price for my watch is a mare, luckily I got new at 30% discount, but I paid because 1) I wanted a beautiful vintage looking dress watch 2) just the way you set the GMT and settings for daylight hour - I travel alot.. Different level.. Woww 3) it gave me enough info on the dial without too much clutter: the power reserve, a date, 2nd time clock! 4)finishing was excellent. Would I change a few things, yes simply to make people realise there other watchmakers that make even more better or similar watches at better price points than a VC, Rolex, AP, PATEK - yes your point 3 in the video.
If I see somebody wearing a jLC , I know they are going to know what they are talking about and ironically I would say the same thing about somebody wearing Christopher Ward. If I see somebody wearing a Rolex or wearing a Nautilus I know that they’ve just got the money and there is a very high chance They don’t know anything about watches it’s just something they’ve been told about and that they can afford in terms of materialism.
Maybe you are right but its not a fact that rolex and Nautilus owners only have money and they don't love watches or just bought them because they are hype I own a Jaeger-LeCoultre reverso and a polaris and i own a 5 rolex and one nautilus 5726 in leather strap i didn't bought them because i just have money opposite of that many reasons why i bought them i loved that nautilus before even thy get hyped,,, but unfortunately i can understand what you mean
100% I own Rolex, JLC, Zenith, Omega. Not about the $$, just love watches. Own 4 Rolexes, but JLC keeps the most insanely perfect time in my collection.
My inner "oh look, he's wearing a Rolex" voice has shifted completely to "oh look he's wearing a GS"
@@loweewolwed9834 🤣 if somebody is wearing a GS you know they know a bit about watches.
@@Robert-vw3od Yup. I used to have a DJ 16220 and Sub 16610 as my daily but nowadays is a GS SBGR251.
If the MASTER CONTROL
CHRONOGRAPH CALENDAR would have 10bar it would be a one watch collection peace for me and imo if jlc would be able to pull that off with 10bar they would be in a perfect category between dress and sport with a perfect watch! It would be a stand out peace for sure 👌🏼✌🏻
It also needs a nicer bracelet. I hate the H link style. But apart from that, I'm with you 😊
I love JLC because even at their current pricing, they are still a good value and are an enthusiast watch. A Rolex is so played out at this point that I see them as watches for people who don't know watches but want a nice watch. Some of us don't want the "recognizeability". I also have a few Grand Seiko as I see them in the same category. My new favorite watch is my petroleum dialed Master Ultrathin Moon Phase. Yes, it is a dress watch but works with jeans and a t-shirt. It is pretty close to a perfect watch IMO.
I'm happy JLC is where it is, along with other quality brands. For enthusiasts, after seeing what has happened in the market, it's good for hidden gems to stay hidden.
As JLC is my "aspirational" brand...One that i do indeed picture selling my Rolex, Tudor and Omega to land on one of theirs as an exit watch...even though that phrase is a bit morbid in it's connotations, I honestly hope they do not raise the levels of their pricing where that might not be something I could attain. When you posed the question of the new Polaris chronographs vs the Daytona and Ed White...I'd take the Polaris easily over those. But another point, I do think they really need to expand the whole Polaris line if they are going to make sales headway. Fantastic episode, even though the implications of it worry me
No such thing as an Exit Watch. I bought a Submariner as my exit watch then bought 6 more Rolexes and a Reverso. You're constantly looking for an exit. That's called death.
Fair point on the polaris. Personal preference key, always. We like what we like.
Thanks for the feedback also - and no. Hopefully they don't get more expensive (even though that is what I suggest they do) 😊😊
Hello from a fellow countryman. Your assessment is spot on, I have often thought about a Jaeger, but as you mentioned most of us tend to gravitate towards a more sporty watch. Even the Reverso unless we are talking about the Duo is not all that interesting. It is sort of the same way I think about at Grand Seiko, I just can't find anything that actually peaks my interest.
What’s surprising about that list is how well Longines does. I’m from Toronto and don’t hear much about them. Maybe it’s bigger in Europe
Chinese love Longines, it still has a lot of brand equity there and is more popular now at its lower price point because the CCP for awhile cracked down corruption and on overseas luxury spending
I agree with your thoughts on JLC. Energy was down a bit in this episode. Either a cold or fatigue. Either way very informative. Thx
Outstanding analysis. I really enjoyed your video and content. Well done. I was in a JLC boutique in Sydney Australia a few days ago and fell in love with JLC Master Ultra Think moon watch. It is all class. I was contrasting the warm welcome my wife and I got there vs the snobby reception we got in Rolex. As you said the entire JLC range is biased towards dress watches and most people including me, gravitate towards more robust sports watches. JLC need to have more robust sports watches and provide an upgrade path.
It's hard to have this type of discussion without looking at Richemont's portfolio of brands as a whole entity. IMO, JLC is exactly where Richemont wants them to be, covering the niche market with products that they're good at doing. If anything, Panerai is under performing.
Probably true, but I don't necessarily see that Richemont would want to JLC to be below Vacheron. If they could be side by side without stealing customers from each other, I'm sure they'd be happy with that. Swatch - Different story, they've got clear tiering going on between their brands. But Richemont not as much 😀😀
....how ironic..just looking at a Reverso/Geophysic...you have to go back 10 year plus to the Master Compressor funnies for any defining character, but they are still very niche...it's like Vacheron I feel, again there are more attractive offers out in the market...both brands may struggle further !!!
They do feel a bit on the sidelines for sure... 😊😊
Shhhh! JLCs are available below retail. We gotta keep it that way until I acquire the ones I want 😂
true 😂😂
Another fantastic, substantive commentary and analysis. JLC is my favorite brand and I think you nailed the problems they have and face for improving their performance. My tastes are dress over sport, so I fit their main appeal but if they want to improve, they need a stronger sport/tool watch presence. They are an outstanding brand and watch with an extraordinary history. As a JLC fan and owner, I'd like to see their performance improve. Perhaps your ideas would help propel them forward. Perhaps you deserve a consultation fee. ;-)
JLC is a brand very close to my heart, I'm wearing a Reverso Duo as we speak, but my first watch was a JLC Master Geographic, I had never heard of JLC and when going shopping 27 years ago for a Tag Heuer monaco, I saw the Master geo in the window I was gobsmaked by its beauty, when I was told it costs small amount more than the tag, I bought it on the spot, and then over my watch collecting journey I was amazed to find out about there history, some 500+ watches later i still own it and few others JLC's, but getting to your point about the upsell, I agree, I bought a moonphase that was cheaper than the Master geo, and felt no need to even look at precious metal versions.
It would be good for them to do a more simple vintage inspired diver, in smaller size, the polaris is to big. and maybe a simpler movemnt, and advertise it like Longines are pushing they heritage line and Tudor before. or like you said, go more high end, at the moment and since I walked in that shop 27 years ago, they are incredible value for there history & quality
Thanks for sharing. Like how the whole "upgrade for gold" thing aligned with your own experience.
As for a smaller diver - Totally agree. I'm not super strong on their historical models, so not sure what they could pull out of storage but it definitely would help them
Cheers 😀
I put a Reverso into my collection late last year. I put a discontinued Master Chrono in a couple weeks ago. Having owned Tudor, Rolex, and Omega there is no doubt that JLC makes better products. But you are right. They don’t have that killer desirable model. I agree with your analysis and JLC should do it…. AFTER I get my Master moon steel or Master Calendar steel. 😂. great video.
Thanks. Let's hope you get that watch before they raise prices even more 😂😂
Hi Mike, I have been enjoying a lot your content! I love the business perspective and management consulting approach you bring to your analysis of the watch brands and larger watch industry. This approach is very insightful and really differentiates your videos from all others on the platform. Also, I appreciate your measured and structured delivery. I would like to suggest a topic which I have been thinking of recently: LVMH created a watch division and named Bernard Arnault's son to be its CEO. What do you think LVMH's watch strategy will be and how will it affect other watch brands and industry in general? I have both admiration (from the business point of view) and uneasiness (from the non-billionaire consumer point of view) on what LVMH achieved within fashion and luxury sector. Will it be able to create similar impact with watches?
I don't understand why Jaeger-LeCoultre is not included in the trinity of watchmaking, but Audemars Piguet is.
Holy Trinity is a made up term. It's just who happened to be good at the time and the name kind of stuck on the three 😀😀
Bang on analysis, as we've come to expect from you. What you propose for JLC in terms of positioning and shift in brand perception is by far the path that makes the most sense for them. They will not be able to start playing the numbers game and, as you say, they don't seem to be interested going down that route. Additionally, there are already too many players with pyramid structures in the high volume segment, with Rolex and Omega at the top, and brands like Tudor, Longines and Breitling pushing upwards. So, increasing average revenue per model seems like a very good strategy, but it also sounds like JLC need to come out with a few more appealing lines and models.
Super Interesting! Towards the end, You pretty much did what they’d pay McK and BCG a couple 100Ks for :) Richemont has such amazing subsidiaries that improvement in one might even cannibalise the sales of others. JLC also needs to think about growth without hurting its sister firms: don’t chase VC and Lange. Grab a bite of external businesses or create a product no one serves.
I love JLC . Just that they are now a truly luxury watch one I would purchase personally after all investments , expenses, cars , holidays etc . Which means one perhaps every 5 years and at today’s prices not 5 years later. If they increase prices then not even after 5 years or only at secondary Prices where they are selling for 40-50% off
Your video is a hint to JLC what to do ( they need a hype watch )
They totally need a hype watch.... 😊😊
Great analysis- a lot of thought has gone into this. Subscribed!
Much appreciated 😀
What does this mean for a consumer who was thinking of buying a reverso? No matter what people say I definitely like the watch, it fits my style, and I have no desire to have watches that everyone else has or wants, but I don't want to buy something that's potentially on a downward trajectory.
If you like the watch, you like the watch. End of story. Buy it if it seems fair .... to you 😃
I agree with you 100 percent. I love JLC Reverso, Master Control and Polaris lineup but they need to move away from their current business model since is not working comparatively speaking to other luxury watch brands. Great Video and thank you!
Thanks a ton 😊😊
Richemont owns both Vacheron and JLC. I just think it doesn’t make sense to level up JLC to take over Vacheron’s market share.
True - I do also think JLC would be better off independent so they could chart their own course 😀
Mike, excellent perspective on JLC in today's market, and you articulated the reasons that I could not put my finger on until I watched your video why I have not bought a JLC. In essence, JLC is a dress watch manufacturer, and their sports models really are not eye catching. JLC's tagline "the watchmakers watchmaker" means nothing in reality. Tool watches are Rolex and Seiko. Movements that run for 3+ days are Rolex and Oris. Dress watches are Patek Philippe. I thought that when Catherine Rénier became Jaeger-LeCoultre's CEO in 2018 she would use her Van Cleef & Arpels background to add eye grabbing dials and to your point, high end metals, to transform the brand. Raising prices 30-40% by itself without an increase in luxury made no sense. Hopefully she watches this video and adopts some of the suggestions.
This right here. Right now, JLC is trying to push the right buttons, but they have not yet committed to doing the correct related actions. You can’t just raise prices in order to move upmarket-you also need to improve your product offerings. I’m not convinced that the proper way to improve your offerings is to eliminate the more affordable variants and push people toward precious metal versions of watches they already don’t want
Thank you. As for Reniér, I'll send her a bill for my services 😂😂
Excellent analysis as always. You need to be on the product development and marketing board of JLC
God no... They'd hate me there. I just want to talk. I don't actually want to do anything.... 😂😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch
😂😂😂
Wow great video! I’m a JLC guy and I completely agree.
Glad I found your channel.
Awesome! Thank you! 😃
I love JLC. Really do. So, your analysis is much appreciated. In addition, in my humble opinion: They have a marketing issue! Benedict C was a good brand ambassador. Then came Lenny Kravitz (perhaps their CEO likes him, dunno) and now some no names to me. Also, the best rare JLC Boutiques are great, because they have all the good pieces in stock. But go to a say, Wempe, you won't find the cool stuff on display, which hurts JLC, since you need to see their dials live.
I was surprised Mike didn’t mention this too. It’s an ‘easy button’ tactic to boost brand awareness. Have to choose wisely.
Its true, many of their brand ambassadors are awful and not believable at all. I think some good choices would be Jon Hamm or Pierce Brosnan, both of whom have worn JLC on screen, in photo shoots, and even in their personal life.
They just need 2 brand ambassadors. John Mayer and Jay Z.
Good point - their ambassadors are very much "off". Apart from the Dr strange watch I can barely remember who their ambassadors are. 😊
This was so well thought out and put to together. And i agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on JLC, you've done it again sir masterpiece video👍🏾🔥🔥
Glad you enjoyed it - Hopefully I'm not hurting any JLC lovers out there. Just sharing my thoughts 😀😀
As a German, i congratulate you for your ability to pronounce Glashütte Original correctly 🎉😊
Thanks - My german teacher always said "You sound really german. What you say makes no sense grammatically, but it does sounds german" 😂😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch In your video about the Iwc performance chronograph you said a German sentence which was also well pronounced and gramatically correct. So your teacher was either wrong or you have improved your skills since school.
Agreed. Tried the Polaris several times. Always liked it but always bought a different watch.
Exact same thing with me. Always tried it, many times, liked it, but never loved it enough to buy. Now at 50% off retail, even then I am still hesitating to buy one. I love the brand, my wife owns two JLCs and loves them, but for some reason I am so hesitant for myself, and I do have watches in my collection from so many other brands, like Blancpain, Breguet, VC, Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Moser, Glashuette Original, etc. I really want a JLC but…..
Bingo... 😊
Unfortunately, JLCs biggest problem is that hardly anybody can pronounce their full name correctly. So I guess they must remain niche in a world of Loleks, Omiiiga, and Tweuda! BTW I love my Reverso Grande GMT with 8 day power reserve. 😅
True - I also avoid saying it for fear of being corrected in the comments 😂😂
Excellent points as always!! I love the Reverso as it is but I wonder if JLC could do a more sporty version of the Reverso.. imagine one with 100M of water resistance, maybe even in rubber 😮, duo face / dual time.. difficult to pull off from a technical standpoint but it would do wonders for the brand. This wouldn’t replace the Reverso but it would be an additional offering to attract more customers looking for something sporty and different than a diver or traditional GMT for example. I would buy one immediately.. 😂 Just a thought 💭
Check out the Reverso grand sport.
@@underachievingwatchcollect1878yeah!.. an updated version of that one with exchangeable straps and better WR (that one has 50m) could really work IMO 🙌🏻
I feel jlc is exclusively to those that want to have a watch that isnt meant to follow a trend but to do its own thing. . it complells those who love hourology and design together. Not fads,trends. Unfortunately when you dont follow the general trend you will sell less.
As an owner of Rolex, Omega, and JLC, I absolutely love my Reverso. It’s an enthusiast brand that flies under the radar and doesn’t give you unwanted attention. Those who know, know, and that’s who I want to have a watch conversation with.
The Reverso was designed as a sports watch, to play polo, and it is still used by polo players around the world. Just because the perception is that it is a dress watch, doesn't mean it is.
Interesting - I'm a big JLC fan and own 3, but they are in trouble and sliding. Partly, this is the lot of the squeezed middle - the same problem is faced by Blancpain, GO and upper tier GS. People spending more than Rolex/Omega money want a Patek, an AP, a Lange. At least, Blancpain is hedged by the FF and by its in-house work for Swatch, but its famous Villerets are neglected. But JLC doesn't have the dive watch or group movement development luxury; worse, it's constricted at corporate problem in chief Richemont between the behemoth of Cartier (err, square watches and the premier female brand) and the holy cow: VC. Richemont will be the death of JLC. They need to sell more expensive watches, yes, but quality (value) has to go up commensurately, significantly and noticeably. At the moment, is a Polaris really a better watch than a Sub? No - not in any measurable way. A Reverso is a better watch than a Tank, but its at least twice the price - a tough ask for a casual purchaser who already knows Cartier.
Watch maker's watch maker maybe, but they need to make better watches that are substantially better designed. They need to double down on value, not price themselves out of contention making mediocre watches. Watch design was never a cultural strength for movement maker JLC and that mediocre tradition remains today, beyond Reverso: Master Control - bland, basic, too big; Polaris - indistinct, diluted, laughably small movement, clunky; Duometre - too big, too odd, too expensive for the market. Even the sacred cow Reverso could be better - they're doubling down on forced, contrived complication in a simple watch, making it too wide, too thick, like a lego brick. Actually, simple options are disappearing from the range as they try to lever average unit price, destroying the very ethos of the watch in the process. I get your precious metal thing, but I suspect this would exacerbate the problem - it would make them worse value, even more expensive, even closer to VC: an even easier swerve.
The point I latch on to in what you wrote is this: "They need to make better watches that are substantially better designed". Apart from a Reverso Chrono here and there, I tend to agree with you. Bland, generic dress watches.... 😊😊
You mentioned Czapek many times in this vid, which is weird - because it's a fringe brand that almost no one is aware of.
Is it 'product placement'? Otherwise, you've made another informative video. Well done.
My 2c. JLC production out-weighs demand, which in turn kills demand. Why would I buy a JLC new? I have a 976 Grand Reverso, I love it, but I bought it used - in immaculate condition - for a 4300 CHF, a 40% discount from the retail price of 7500 CHF. That was a good buy, because it will always be worth at least that (if I look after it).
They should drop production to below demand - at least for the popular models. The demand will rise, and JLC can slowly creep up production - keeping it always behind demand. That's how it works at Rolex and A.P. and Patek. It's the oldest trick in the book.
Greetings,
Truly great analysis.
One of the most notable points is that JLC has many SS inexpensive models with complications. I noticed it a while ago and always thought that this unwise.
Kind regards, and applications.
Edward
Lots of good points, but it's crazy that you're right that most people would choose a Daytona over a Polaris Chronograph. No chance I'd trade my Polaris for a Daytona unless I could flip it, then use the money to buy a Polaris and pocket the change.
Brand and hype drive buying decisions for many. Good on you for sticking with what right for you 😊😊
NGL, the only thing I like from JLC is their reverso and I was hoping they would eventually add a custom line where we can mix and match desired faces o:
I enjoy how you give your opinion, defending your position while still open being wrong. We'll see how the brand grows in years to come
Mike, at 5:08 you mentioned that JLC movements are not "Chopard level". I never knew that Chopard, a jewelry brand that makes watches, is high level. Could you do a video on what makes a watch movement high level so I can understand why you mentioned that Chopard is in the upper tier of movements? Thanks for considering my request.
Maybe the L.U.C. 1.96?
Chopard make great movements, very high end stuff, but I agree JLC high end stuff destroys them... they grande complications are just insane in their level of detail and finish.
JLC also competing with Piaget and Bulgari in the dress watch category.
I have put it on my long list of ideas for videos. IT's definitely something I find interesting.
As for Chopard. They are by some believed to have built the best automatic movement ever - the 1.96. There's all sorts of technical reasons for this and on top of that it also looks stunning. Google it, there's a lot of interesting reading out there when you have a spare moment.
cheers 😀😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Thank you for sharing. I will definitely Google this movement .
the master of watch brand analysis has spoken, just that simple!!!!
For me, the best Watches out there, it is for the expert eye, they are great, I think the market doesnt understand, I have a perpetual and a reverso, sadly they dont hold value.
Try comparing a JLC to a GO. Then do the same with PP/AP/VC to A. Lange. Swiss luxury brands are gliding along solely on their history and the new wave of German watch brands have completely surpassed them.
Agree to a large extent. The german brands do sometimes seem to push the envelope in terms of quality and value of many more swiss brands that come across as more complacent... 😊😊
Enjoyed hearing your perspective on JLC. I think you are onto something. In the luxury space, products need to be desirable and scarce. Does JLC want to play in this space?
In practicality I think they are a bit limited in what they can do under the richemont umbrella, but given the choice I think they would like to go more high end 😃😃
Thumbs up for this take on one of my fav brands. Thanks for the perspective and cheers.
Cheers 😊😊
I love my master control (full Calendar with moon). Just got it serviced at my local boutique, including polishing, and fell in love with it again - looks brand new and it’s an amazing watch. But I don’t wear it much, coz it is a dress watch, and I stopped wearing suits/jackets/dress shirts when the pandemic hit and I’m not going back. So I wear my other watches a lot more. The Polaris in gold with perpetual calendar is cool, but the price is too high. Was thinking of a reverso for my wife, but the lower end ones are quartz - nothing wrong with that, but with the price they’re charging its absurd, and she’s not a watch geek. So I’m looking on chrono 24 but who knows
Just a thought....JLC brings out an integrated bracelet sports watch just to accommodate your point....
They then get accused of jumping on the bandwagon ( albeit late), so how does that help?
Very smart commentary. Thank you.
Thank you too! 😀👍👍
Excellent video, sir. JLC executives need to be sat down and forced to watch this video
I'm sure there are some JLC people having a laugh at my random speculations.... 😂😂
Its mad to think the reverso surrendered its sports watch branding when it was literally created for a sport. They should have called it the polo reverso and do sports (bracelet version, ) and dress versions.
100% right about online channel
Thanks for sharing 😊😊
Another great analysis.
Good video. I think they should keep models in steel. You save money with the same movement in it's gold counterpart. I own 3 of them. I have and love the Master Reverve De March in steel which is a great watch. Glashutte original is nice as well you mentioned and the Panoverse come in steel as well. A little thick in the movements. You talk about the Patek Calatrava which is much more money and only comes in precious metal. Steel is under the radar. Some might think it can be white gold or platinum. They made movements for many other companies including Patek.
Interesting discussion thanks, I doubt I’ll ever be able to afford one, but for some reason JLC it’s the only Swiss brand I have a genuine desire for ( ....well ok I also like omega but find them a bit boring😅). As well as aesthetics, maybe the very fact it’s seen as “ underdog” appeals & as you describe the quality v value proposition seems great to me.
I feel about a basic Reverso the same way I feel about a chocolate chip cookie. Something perfect I want all the time.
Love the imagery .😊😊
Another master class. Thank you.
Very welcome 😊😊
Generally agree but I think your analysis supports the move to raise price. Also the new reverso Chrono is a great example of them playing to their strengths and offering in steel was a brilliant move - and very compelling at the price. They need to make the reverso the hero and build more exclusivity!
I recently picked up a JLC Polaris in green dial. I was in the market for a sport dress watch and was also looking at Rolex, omega, grand Seiko. I ended up with the JLC because of how polarizing the green dial was on the Polaris and how it was so niche. A lot of my watch enthusiast friends have Rolex or omega and I wanted something different but still high quality.
Great analysis as usual. I agree with most of your points, but I think they can employ both strategies of selling more and having a few pieces that command more per watch.
I don't think they will ever dominate the space that companies like Lange do, so while they can continue to exhibit their best high finish/high complication skills in a few references, I think they should constrain their focus in favor of big sellers.
JLC desperately needs more icons.The Reverso is square and unfortunately land locked into this kind of Art Deco aesthetic that is not to everyone's liking. I see their Master Control and Ultra Thins as those "big sellers for the cost conscious", but they have been criminally under marketed and diluted by a million difference references. The "under 20k dress watch" segment is where these models could really dominate. I really don't see a peer for them in this space, save for a scant few like Breguet. With that kind of cachet, who knows, maybe they could change the perception that dress watches can't be for daily wear (because they can).
Despite being in the unenviable position of being a "dress watch company", I think they should embrace that. Unfortunately I don't think they could make a desirable sports model to save their lives. They should abandon this endeavor entirely and focus more on what they do well.
I appreciate an old traditional brand that is part of the DNA of Swiss watch making and “fly under the radar” of non watch enthusiast hype. If they are happy to make relatively low volumes and not be in the general public’s faces then I respect that.
I think you missed Cartier when talking about how dress watches aren't in that "top 10" product list. One of the major reasons JLC is not achieving their potential is because Cartier is hot, and less expensive. It's actually strange how many of these kinds of "watch business" review videos don't seem to see that #2 brand on the Morgan Stanley list. The watch enthusiast youtubers are obsessed with the sport watches, and mens watches. Cartier sold 620,000 watches in 2022, and hello, a ton of them are not round, and not 'sport' watches.
I want a Santos and my wife wants a Tank but every normal (non watch nerd) person I speak to don’t know that Cartier makes watches. Even friends who are mildly interested in watches don’t know. Who is buying all those watches to make Cartier number 2?!
Excellent analysis
But for my point of view, I would not recommend JLC to use precious metal just after the entry level. Why? Because I’m a great fan of JLC for all reasons you mentioned.
I collect them in the pre owned market because the price of new models and pre owned is so huge !
Ex: I bought a Polaris no date (2022) for 5250€, B+P
Why break my happiness ?
Lol. Good point 😂😂
We are losing ground in the overall watch rankings. Answer: let's increase prices over 100% in just five years. That should fix the problem. 😂
Sorted 😂
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchlol nailed it 💪🏽
I feel like the answer is staring JLC in the face. Resurrect the 39-40mm Deep Sea Alarm with both vintage editions celebrating the original and more contemporary designs and even high concept versions like AP does with the Royal Oak. I believe a lot of people will enjoy the aspect of a personal alarm function as it engages the wearer to engage with the watches.
They do have the Memovox in the Polaris and Master Control line. Don’t think they are big sellers….i love them though.
Good call - That model in the right sizing has potential in todays market 😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthe DSA has the pedigree and imo the looks to make a compelling offering in the sports watch category. I think the made a mistake going with the Polaris.
I don’t think they can compete with the trinity, Lange, Breguet. If I ran them I would just focus Reverso. Create a Reverso with an awesome steel bracelet. The other watches they have will always be the poor guys dress watch,but Reverso is special. Make it more sport and less dress.
what happened to the Master Compressor Diving?? Such a beautiful watch! I guess you are right with too many classic models and no sport watches....
Remember the old nazy seals model!! Yessir 😀😀
Great analysis!
Thanks a ton 😃
JLC should bring back the Albatros, their own integrated bracelet sports watch!