We ROAST McLaren's new eBike & Pinion MGU epicness
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Why cant supercar brands build nice looking ebikes? And is Nicolai's new Saturn 16 Pinion MGU ebike the best bike?
Sponsored by The Electric Bike Shop - check them here: bit.ly/3UvJp9X
0:00 Introduction
2:22 McLaren’s New E-Bike
6:35 Comparison with Porsche’s E-Bike
11:09 Honda’s E-MTB Concept
13:08 GasGas and Ducati Bikes
15:55 McLaren E-Bike Geometry and Specs
17:17 Sponsored Message: The Electric Bike Shop
18:29 Feedback on the Pinion MGU
30:03 Power and Climbing Performance
39:00 Battery Life and Range
42:03 Downhill Performance
50:09 Maintenance and Noise
57:16 Riding Experience and Feel
59:58 Market Adoption and Future Trends
1:02:53 Conclusion and Closing Thoughts - Sport
The best podcast on bikes I’ve watched. Well done guys keep it up
Wow, thanks!
Derailleurs on MTBs have always been a real pita. Since tubeless tyres have become the norm derailleurs are by far the weakest point on any MTB. For an e-MTB they are the only way to go.
Concerning the MGU's: You guys managed to capture me for the whole length of the video! Well done! Informative and great humour to boot. I'm obviously one of many interested in this new development. I'll be following this very closely. Keep it up guys!
As soon as the Saturn frame only is available I'm buying one....... The motor has 85Nm of torque, the 160Nm that they're quoting is at the back wheel after the 1st gear multiplication that is why it changes as you go through the gears, that's the whole point of gears, its exactly the reason off road vehicles and lorries for example have low range gears. The thing that peaked my interest, apart from the obvious was the fact you say you can get that torque at a low cadence. I'm a grinder not a spinner so find it hard to ride my bike at the correct/efficient cadence. This bike is just one game changer after another...🥰😍
I’m with you on bikes with an MGU being the next major step improvement. Looking forward to more options becoming available 👍🏻
A refreshing Pinion/Nikolie discussion guys. One fact remains, The Price remains at a Ridiculous price point.
I dont know what their markup profit is, but doesnt it make more economic sense to sell millions of these bikes, and not a dozen.
Quicker the prices drop the better for all.
A lot of research and development costs go into these bikes and the market is pretty niche. To make a profit and recoup costs they need to sell at a premium, especially until a technology becomes more mainstream. YOu can buy a Pinion MGU for a few thousand on a cheaper bike... but yeah of course the top-spec EMTB's cost 10000.
I agree with black tshirt dude. It looks like what a company that designs sleek road machines would think a cool mountain bike would look like. I imagine if you asked a lycra clad roadie to design an mtb it may look similar.
His name is Adam....he used to be with EMTB before he showed up with Rob....
You guys do a great job making interesting points from different perspectives while keeping me entertained at the same time! Great vibes as well.
Really enjoyed watching you guys. Interesting topics. It’s great you guys come from three different backgrounds.
Wow, those were really very professional and fair discussions about the Pinion motor. Excellent.
The HONDA IS a blast to the past with that bike frame resembling the downhill bike Greg Minnaar used to ride
At long last its arrived ..Been wanting this system for several years. There have been several false starts and my R&M Delight with Rollhof hub gearbox comes close but it-is NOT a purpose designed mountain bike .....Cant wait to buy this . Thanks for the vid Rob its going to cost me money
Love the podcast guys, keep em coming!
I figured the MGU was the future but you guys have really sold me on it. I love that you can get it as a frame only option. Now I just wish that this, or some other MGU bike, makes it way to the US but with the 20mph class 1 cutoff limit, not the silly Euro limit.
The McLaren bike reminds me of the Raleigh Vektor from the 1980s. I haven’t googled this to check, but I seem to remember it having a nasty screen on the handlebars.
Also, didn’t McLaren buy VanMoof after they went titsup?
Final thought, the people who buy this bike won’t be MTB riders, they’ll be either be McLaren super car owners or wannabe McLaren car owners.
The maintenance of the system is the overall game changer for me, ie, practically nothing. However, the industry will probably not like it as it will render a hell of a lot of products associated with emtb/mtb obsolete. When you think chains, cassettes, derailleurs, lubes to name a few, it’s big business.
Exactly
Allot of the non MTB companies making EMTBs seemingly try to make them look like MX bikes. Motor bikes rather than pedal bikes.
car brands do not target actual mtb-ers; they target their buyers who would maybe someday would ride a bike, most probably on asphalt or maximum a forest road, nothing more; for that type of ride, the offers from car manufacturers are perfect.
Very good reporting about the nicolai with pinion mgu!👍👍👍
With this amount of torque you can mount shorter cranks, i'am a very fan of. Because less contacts to rocks and a nearer stay for both foots together in downhill, more as such in dirt-bikes with parallel foot-positioning.
However it sounds like they're playing games with torque numbers. They're talking about torque being delivered to the rear axle whereas other bicycle manufacturers are talking about torque being applied to the asphalt. This sucks as this is confusing everyone now.
Got myself Gen 4 Trek rail 9.8. Stunning bike. Imo Trek makes some of the best looking bikes. I take them over Mclaren any day.
Lovely stuff blokes I appreciate you’all
Curious if the Zerode line-up with no E motor deserves mention or comparison. Obviously if they make one it will eat up their customer base. Which I feel like u may overlook when saying E-bikes saved the industry. I beg to differ Dicuss plz
u see in S.Germany this highend EMtb Enduros with Explorerkit alot on Elder Human. kinda crazy to see as MtB Freak but tbh it is the best u can buy ;) Ps. awesome podcast. I´m about to by a MGU eMtb 🍒
Hi Rob, on motor voltage, the more volts the lower the amps, lower amps ,less heat & resistance all equating to better efficiency , this is a very simplified version of theory . 48v to 60v is the way forward for high watt motors.
That may be true but amps times volts equals watts and if the diameter of the wire is slightly larger so that efficiency isn't lost, it really doesn't amount to much of nothing between 48 V and 60 V.
Great show, I love the MGU! I reacall STeve from GBMN reviewed the Simplon and in that video he showed the auto gear changing in action and quite liked it. Ddidnt the Nicolai have auto gear changing Rob?
Hi, yes it has that all built in too. Good feature for sure!
All pinion mgu's have it.
Auto shifting is obviously a feature of the motor itself, not individual bikes.
I think you said on this pod cast you have ordered a Nicolai Saturn frame kit , could you possibly tell me how the import duty & vat works when it arrives in the uk , I’m ordering a full bike & trying to work out the cost on top of the price of the bike. Thanks
Do you already know which frame size you will be getting?
I am tempted but dont like the extreme geo, even a small is longer than I like. Hope they will do custom geo as well.
I'll wait and see how it's adapted with other brands /tech in 12 months' time , probably invest then. Defo the future . Hopefully, pole re launch and incorporate it , until then, I'll ride my voima. Another great show 👏
It;s quite obvious that the people at Mclaren/porsche etc are not mountain bikers and have no clue what mountain biking is about. Hence the shitty designs. Their bikes are made for the people who buy their cars, not for us mtbers.
The longer gage you need only for 51T and bigger cassette, if you change for a 10-45T you can have a short cage, like the shimano XTR i have on all four of my E-bikes.
Now I only make sure not to ride where someone has run a clearing saw, where thin stumps stick up😂
That Saturn is the nicest bike I think I've ever seen. Finally the gearbox dream is becoming reality.
One aspect of the pinion MGU that nobody has mentioned is what it's like above the assistance cut off. I can imagine it'll be quite draggy 🤔
What I've heard it's not really worse than other motors without assistance
From 1650km experience, it supports fully up to 25kmph and over the last 2.5kmph it gradually decreases its assistance.
And it's not really draggy. On good days I cruise without assistance around 30kmph.
For April fools 2025 can we have random bike manufacturers pushing some new supercars with random mounts where bikes can attach? A Whyte F1 team, Specialized Sports tourer that can carry 3 bikes as standard, and charge them from the car braking and a Crestline (originally Australian?) releasing a Ute designed to carry 5 ebikes in the toughest off-road conditions and have a top speed of 200mph.
Mtb companies need to get their own back at car manufacturers, $9500 for a McLaren they don’t even advertise the important specs of.
Looks like a real breakthrough tech bike ! I was just wondering is Pinion EDU is able to be torque / power customized as Shimano / Bosch is proposing in their motor ? Cause I'm bit afraid the tremandous amount of torque in low gear may suprise / shcok some riders ( beginners )
The posh car brands pumping out emtbs are not for the likes of actual mountain bikers, they are for their customers who want an emtb but have no real idea what a good MTB is. The Porsche one for me get closest, most likely because of the rotwild association. If I had to guess the McLaren is a catalogue bike from the far east
Personally I don't think the Nicolai is a very good looking bike but to each their own 🤷 however the pinion mgu is finally the drive train I've been waiting for. Definitely agree it's the future. Just need all the other brands to get on board haha
Can you de-restrict the Pinion MGU? How would you get it repaired or serviced in the uk?
McClaren emtb - maybe they should sort their cars before dipping into brand expansion (come to think of it Harley D with their offering too) some interesting cockpit thoughts but in a world post “unit” construction (those of old enough to recall Triumph motorbikes moving from separate gearbox and engine when it became a unitised construction In the 1960’s) I am disregarding derailleur based new bikes from now on and the Nicolai Saturn is pointing the way - (as Nicoali did with the gboxx bikes )- Rob you were wrong on dates in the last video the originals were circa 2005 and my Nucleaons are 2008 and 2009 both feature the near zero bob suspension of a gearbox drive and suspension pivot and although long they are pre geometron slack and missing dropper post but as I say with good legs the only downhill rigs you could pedal uphill
They make the fastest cars for the price in their segment. If you want build quality, buy a 911.
The MGU is best thing that heppend to MTBS since hydroulic disc brakes!!But the question is now CAN IT BE DERESTRICTED?????
Great listen, with the 2025 bikes not that far away from being released online do you think some of the bigger manufacturers will have this gearbox on their bikes?
motors like MGU is the future of e-MTB
Wonder when others starts to pops up on the market.
Rob. Are you sure they'll be selling the MGU Frame and not just the Bosch set up frame?
Pinion is coming out of the transmission dep. off Porsche ( check-out the utube clip)
I like the gmu a lot up to now, finally after +40yrs of derailleur/chain nonsense. It cost an arm&leg but i did buy a Rapcon/mullet.
They need to make a car-charger; i made one for my Bosch bike but this one, the E-fit, is way complexer.
Regarding the McLaren bike, it's not really a beauty but still more of a design tryout; the Gocycle (made by a Former McLaren eng.) was nicer, but is very expensive and quiet delicate.
So is Nicolai playing games with torque numbers? I thought other manufacturers were talking about torque being applied to the asphalt where as pinion is talking about torque being applied to the rear wheel axle. ??
What colour did you go for with the Nicolai's new Saturn 16 frame? Can someone explain to me the benefit of the RAW bare metal aluminium frame over a painted frame? Is there any benefit or is it just trendy? Or just bike manufacturers saving a few quid / making people pay more for, um, paint?
Raw. I love the raw look and no worry about paint getting scratched!
@@RobRidesEMTB Makes sense. Thanks. Enjoy your new emtb when it arrives.
Hey, can you get your hands on a trek marlin+8 and give your honest opinion it .. Pretty please..?
Can u add the Range extender on the Nicolai ?
Will this Pinion bike be available in the USA? Seems like it checks many boxes.
When will the frame only option be available Rob?
Is there a " neutral " position that allow the bike to run ( just pedaling with the belt ) in case of MGU down ?
The gearbox itself is always engaged. So if power is down your're still able to pedal without any problem.
I would buy the mgu innan instant if I could afford it. Stationary shifiting alone would make it worth it.
I'd like to know if the mgu is designed to be serviceable and if all the parts are available. The lack of parts and disposability of the other ebike motors is criminal.
On you with that
Everything is available, except the motor itself. That is a complete unit. They have quite good guarantee service.
Do they make a GU for non-electric MTB’s? Seems like they would benefit from not having a derailur also. 🙂
Yes! Pinion and others have been making central gearbox bikes since 2012? (I believe). NZ Brand Zerode have been using them exclusively for some time.
How viable is it to just buy the Pinion-Frame-Motor and swap it out as an upgrade. Please make a video on this process.
You'll probably find all the McLaren bikes end up in Saudi Arabia & UAE
.... The homes of "lack of taste" !
;-) !
"it looks like something from Alibaba" lmao. It does!
Pinion have had a prototype e gearbox since 2012, probably earlier, and did Porsche not make an investment in them too? So I can well believe this will be by far the most reliable emtb transmission.
How did you guys find the gear ratio, did it need the 12 gears, and can it be made to run at 32kph?
👍
I have a flyer TRX for around 1650 km. Gearing is fine for commuting easy coasting (80rpm) in 10th gear. At around 27kmph.
Come on, Red, loosen up. You're looking at the future.
Rob leave your mike alone,! great podcast, MGU is definitely the future
and the front rotor is mounted backwards on mclaren :)
Guys, bafang m620 with custom controller has over 2kW and over 200Nm.
which means you would need to register and get road insurance for it to make it legal
LOL!
Soooooo
Is it the "all mighty " 10mm spanner missing on the wall? 🤔
Ducati TK-01RR is one of few Car/Motorcycle brands that actually look good (even though it’s basically a rebranded Thok)
The Shimano ep801 is more powerful than the Bosch CX (non race) based on my tests.
And thee e8000 70nm is faster uphill than an ep8. Very strange
Sounds really heavy, is the mgu going to work for light weight e bikes (sub 20kg)?
They could have fitted a cup holder next to the display on the hideous handle bars
I Love ❤️SL❤️ super light, low and middle powerd engine, with small battery and with range extender available, witch any gearbox E-bikes not exist today.
Te Super Light gearbox E-bike in the future will have a almost frictionless stepless variator gearing like Snowmobiles, where the gearing is regulated by your selected moment or possibly automatically.
THIS WILL BE the ultimate, Super Light and maintenance free belt drive unit😘
the honda and the maclaren have a bulky look,, i f you start adding that sort of power you actual need something with some weight to it to keep thing stable at the higher speeds and frame loads associated with the increase in power,, this illusion of light weight = better is in Point of fact and Illusion that does not survive the enhanced Throttle input,, so shape is not so important,,and performance ,, ie good handling at higher speeds needs built in,, from the get go,, Perhaps some group think at work also,, dude mentioning negative waves has a good point,, face it in the real world we would all love that bike,
As you say several times. This is a deal braker. Keeping my levo for one or two more seasons before buying a bike with gearbox.
What about the Milliar MTB downhill bike with a gearbox 🤔
What happens in the uk winter when all mud gets clogged up under the drive belt
They need to consult a mountain biker rather than just those geek motor engineers who never ride a mountain bike on the trail.
Did anyone else notice that at 7:09 the front rotor is on backwards?
Nice work with your eagle eyes!That adds even more hilarity. I’m Glad it’s only a 3d mock-up!
I like the circle square, X approach debating something new from different prospectives with a devils advocate great watch! Follow-up when the devil rides the MGU 🤞🏾
Assuming I’m the devils advocate?
@@Adam_and_eeb as long as that’s not insulting but yes kinda
@@paulmillan7030 not at all! I agree. Right now I’m the skeptic out of the three of us because I’m the only one not to have ridden an MGU bike on the trails.
You glossed over the main issue here barely mentioning its total lack of functionality and how the design rather than engineering prohibits
By adding by a “light” (suitable for road) they have to reserve part of the 500Wh battery .. the cockpit then precludes fitting a real light.
3 sizes and no reach adjust ?
It’s not £10,000 either it’s plus vat (added in cart) but as said if want it dripping in factory or ohljns at s-works prices.
I think lack of geo and rush damper fork, battery etc basically sum up the engineering as in there was no engineering.
I think Mc Claran, looks like Fisher Price. Just need some stabilisers 😂🤣😅
This is McLaren we're talking about. They don't really care what real mountain bikers think of this bike. This was built for high end sports car owners that think they need an e-bike. People that don't even know what a modern mountain bike should look like. Someone that can buy a McLaren or a Ferrari etc can easily throw away their money to say they're riding a McLaren bike. This will sell, at least to those people, and just like their cars not many will be made and sold, at least compared to other brands. The name alone will sell this bike to non-mountian bikers that just don't know any better.
That maclaren had been hit by the ugly stick and who signed that bike off should be sacked.
The Nicolai bike has a major problem the price, there is no way it's worth £11k i don't care what any one says. You can get brand new cars less than that, which cost a lot more to develop than any bike on the planet.
Assuming the engineers are getting their design parameters from someone. Assuming that person is a MTB guru, is that person able to relay the required parameters into the geek speak of the engineers? Or, are engineers winging it?
Is that McLaren motor a rebadged M620 Bafang?
The Honda ebike looks a bit like an updated Cannondale Super V
How many McLarens are parked in the gravel at the bottom of your trails? They aren’t designing bikes for people in the bike industry or who ride as a hobby, it’s a McLaren it’s designed for McLaren drivers who want power and panache. It’s supposed to be ostentatious. If they made another Pivot or Orbea what would be the point for them?
😆Alibaba. Nailed it!
It's not looks that count... it's the performance...
wait isn't the Kelly's not hand laid?
imagine the return on the R & D .. its basically cost them nothing to design and produce this , in fact with 130% return in R & D credits they are laughing!!!
I'd be so embarrassed to turn up to any trailhead on McLaren /Audi / Porsche etc branded ebike. I can't imagine the amount of p**s taking that would take place!!
Sports car brand e-bike customers aren't your usual mtb customers, they're not riders, they're sports car owners they want odd looks.
way less unsprung weight, makes for easier movement.
Can you imagine the cost of maclaren spare parts 😂.
Why can’t car makers…………because they don’t need to! They just need to look good on roof racks (but they don’t)
2003 Norco A Line
That McLaren motor looks suspiciously like the Befang M620 with a cover over it. Honestly, my 60 year old mum would have done a better job at describing and selling this bike to the MTB community than whatever marketing Grad McLaren tasked with this.
The only people who will buy this are the polo wearing pretentious types who just want things with McLaren written on them.
There MUST BE a ton of PROFIT in these bikes if Car mfg'ers are getting into it!!! That's THE only reason to see these mfg'ers in here...
Zerode will have one in 2025...
Do they not have 1 available now?
They've just released the Pinion G3 DH bike - there's only a pre-prod emtb atm
bum..bar..deeya.....says the Canadian : ).
These bikes aren't made for pro riders. They are made for insecure rich folks for their neighbors and coworkers to notice.
I had a friend in high school that sewed izod alligators onto cheap sweaters. Same thing here with bikes, it's just the company doing it.
future bike of mine to be...Porsche....the "E" is pronounced. How would you like it to have someone continuously mispronounce your name deliberately because they think their "Cool" ?saying "porc" is a insult to the originator of the car and the family
McLaren market isn’t the normal mtb croud
I really hate that we now are FORCED to watch the commercials...this will limit the time I will spend watching Rob...it's a shame the greed has got to him as well....A 21/4 Minute commercial is BULLSHIT!
What’s the commercial? Sorry - I’ll look into this (these are usually auto placed by Google)
No commercials for me 👍
Opa
100% alibaba look