This Raspberry Pi sees in the dark
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- ArduCam sent me their Pivistation 5 cameras, which are Pi 5s and Pi cases mashed up with three of their nicest camera modules, paired up with some nice lenses.
You can read more about the specs on their Kickstarter: www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
WARNING: If you back the Kickstarter, there is no guarantee anything will ever ship to you. It is not the same as purchasing a product. I call it out in the video, I'm calling it out here... I don't think ArduCam will have any trouble manufacturing these cameras, but you've been warned!
(I also don't know why they feel the need to do a Kickstarter, these cameras could just be sold on their existing store, and it's not like they set a high goal...).
I also mentioned a couple other things in this video:
- My ArduCam Hawkeye camera module review: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/202...
- AXIS 212 PTZ IP camera with fisheye lens: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw...
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Contents:
00:00 - A word on Kickstater
00:47 - Hawkeye
01:43 - Darksee
03:00 - Klarity
04:25 - Darksee teardown
06:44 - Cheap-o tripod
07:30 - Testing Darksee
10:51 - All sky fisheye
12:56 - Testing Klarity
15:34 - A microphone is a person - Pytorch demo
16:57 - Good hardware, odd Kickstarter
End CZcamsr reference: ServeTheHome - Věda a technologie
Most already established companies do Kickstarters just for the hype.
Yeah, but I don't get it - that trend seems like it had gone away, but I still see some of them doing it.
It's more obvious when the goal is incredibly small, like a few thousand bucks. They hit it within hours, and then claim it was 'the fastest Kickstarter goal reached ever' or whatever, but that doesn't mean anything compared to a Kickstarter by some passionate individual that hits half a million in 30 days.
@@Level2Jeff The thing I've learned is the unusually small goal really is just for hype and the actual price might be 3-10x that. Happens a lot with RPG kickstarters.
I have noticed some kickstarters are effectively just pre-orders which is suboptimal but at least acceptable if stated ahead of time. Then there are some that are just for attracting "real" investors which is... well at least it's market research, I guess.
I tend to avoid any business with kickstarters, so it’s an odd one.
It's an easy way to fill orders for an initial bulk production run, and campaign can confirm interest in a family of products. Kickstarter audience may be less forgiving than a public audience, and be willing to provide good feedback on the initial product, that can be integrated into a version 1.2, or 2.0 for retail sales.
ie: a lower cost way to preform market research and tuning a product for retail (remember that interest rates is much higher these days, so upfront capital can be costly)
@@Level2Jeff it feels like a twisted version of these "5 dollar deposit" Radxa pulled when Rockpi 5 is out. Maybe it is to do the same thing(preorder for cheaper price) via the kickstarter--and hype aswell, ELEGOO did it with their comically large FDM printer too.
Watch out Serve the Home, Jeff is coming for your outro!
You got it!
This was the first one I actually recognised 😀
"What is that, a ghost?" - Jeff literally seconds after criticizing pytorch's image recognition :-P
Haha
“Already established” dose not mean they have the capital for the upfront minimum orders and tooling depending on the company size. It may be that they would have difficulty getting the tooling in a reasonable time frame with out the pre order hype of a kickstarter to get that quick injection of funds to deal with what can be very steep upfront costs for a new product.
Could be; in this case the goal was $5,019... which seems like it might cover a couple handheld drills and a few Raspberry Pis :D
When I see extremely low sales goals, it feels more like a ploy to be able to say "we reached our funding goal in 24 hours!" than a realistic funding avenue for new hardware.
@@Level2Jeff agreed, $5k is pretty darn low for minimum quality orders, even for smaller volume. That does make me lean towards more of a hype building angle in that case.
@@Level2Jeff One does not negate the other. Hitting both goals (making a marketing play AND raising the funds a small company needs to make the upfront capital) are not exclusive to each other.
The other option is the Kickstarter lets them know how many to make - its a good gauge of interest before you actually start making any parts. Which then means you don't end up sitting on a heap of stock you won't sell, which could cripple even an established company if they guess wrong, or so short of units you upset the customers with 6 month backorders, which then means you may not get their custom again.
STH is going to be signing out with "until next time, I'm Jeff Geerling" in the next video, I bet.
i saw your cameo on smarter every day and it made me super pumped. appreciate you, jeff!
Jeff, never thought I would see the day when you let the shirt hit the fan. Great video!
Things get wild on 3rd channel!
They may be using a kickstarter to gauge the demand while generating funding at the same time. This could help save on R&D instead of diverting funds from existing production and lessen the risk.
7:20 That tripod is working perfect if you handle it correct ...
I recently repurposed a poco f2 pro for a c-mount camera lens and had been getting contrast issues / weird colors on the edges of the CMOS, which I weren’t able to pinpoint the issue of. Glad that Jeff reviewed the ArduCam Pis, now I have a decent idea that it is due to the ISP and the lack of a lens hood.
Surprisingly good picture quality, it would be interesting to see side by side comparisons with other common cameras, e.g, DSLR, phone, pi cameras, webcams, etc if you get the time for it, I'd bet it would give CCTV cameras a run for it's money.
I'm hoping to do this, mostly with Darksee... but Klarity is a nice sensor that I'd love to set up for some video too.
In the past couple months I've bought a bunch of ZWO astronomy cameras with these Sony sensors. A couple of them come with a fisheye lens by default. They are a lot more expensive considering a couple of the models have peltier coolers in them.
I do wonder about long-term cooling with the Darksee especially. I haven't run it for more than an hour or two yet, and it does get a little toasty!
I’m torn between which I dislike more. Established companies using kickstarter for marketing hype and product validation, or hipster fly by night hardware companies selling vapor.
"hipster fly by night hardware companies" 😂 ouch
Me seeing your mouse on the screen and trying to kill the gnat lol
So @ 5:30 you mention them gluing a ring onto the case "to make it look nice" but I'm fairly sure they added that ring to block out any light coming in from the sides... it's a night vision cam, so any bleed in light would wash out the sensor and ruin your image.... unlike a regular camera where it will alter your image but not completely ruin it.. (I THINK thats what happens with bleed through light)
Im glad that the youtube algorithm knows me well enough to suggest Level2Jeff.
Subscribed
Idea. Get an old bullet camera that doesn't work and gut it. Stick this inside and probably get better airflow. lol
Excellent overview. Look forward to seeing some insights/methods of how you test a camera lens and sensors.
Wondering if you managed to use the night vision sensor with all-sky-view lens to capture the aurora a couple weeks ago?
FYI: there is a chance we may get a repeat aurora display in a couple weeks (sun completes a rotation every ~29-30 days), so the same active area is going to reappear, but will depend on timing and strength of next outbursts. The next 6-9 months should hold additional opportunities. Late this year there is s comet that is projected to be easily visible as well.
I didn't have the camera set up for the aurora, but you bet if there's any space weather, I'm going to have that thing up and running for it next time!
I hope to get something set up so I can at least pop it outside for a night at a time, but I want it permanently mounted by the end of this year.
The 1" sensor is rad, but the price is also a bit too high compared to a used MFT or compact camera. I'd love to build my own camera body and interface, but perhaps not at that price point - rehousing existing bodies is a pain.
Yeah; these camera modules are more meant for when you want to program your own camera stuff, like in an experiment, a permanent installation, or things like that. Not a great replacement for a point-and-shoot or mirrorless camera.
@@Level2Jeff that's a bit sad; Pi + camera is ripe for fine control and cool hardware interfaces for manual exposures; I can still dream of one day putting a 1 inch sensor and a Pi 4* Zero inside a 35mm SLR or rangefinder and hooking up the controls. Film is getting ridiculously expensive but the bodies will last forever.
There's already an excellent digital conversion project for Leica M3 called Frankencamera which puts a Sony APSC or Fullframe guts inside a Leica M3 body :o
Existing Pi sensors have too large of a crop factor :(
@@TheCyberSpidey I think at some point we'll have equipment that's adequate and cheap enough to make those DIY conversions make more sense. Right now I've seen a couple, but they're a bit exotic and require a ton of work.
The kickstarter was also the only way to get the additional Canon/Nikon adapter. ArduCam doesn't sell them any longer - following their email the minimum order they'd accept are 100 units.
I would love to build front grill camera for my jeep, I need to keep an extra eye out for deer, the night vison would. Great video Jeff
The Compute Blade was a kickstarter too! They are shipping now at least and discord is fairly active so hopefully similar case here.
Compute Blade was the first hardware project from Uptime Labs (after tons of different prototypes), so that's a case where the Kickstarter was the perfect fit (and the target goal was actually reasonable for starting up a whole new hardware company from the ground up!).
Hoping to get my blades soon :D
I just started watching and at every point where you mentioned the weather I was having the same here in Connecticut. When you mentioned the thunder I was having the same, I could have been fooled that it was a live stream and you were just around the corner from me. Interestingly enough 10:30 EST 05/23/2024 there is a severer weather alert here in the tri state area.
Stay safe!
Jeff, damn, that stomach rumble is EPIC, you must be hungry AF!
lol
@Level2Jeff great review and a beautifully impractical lens from that axis.... The Pivistation idea is neat, the mount and no messing with the flexi cable. POE+ or POE++ is the way to go if the case has cooling. That Fisheye lens is nice but maybe have a chat with CommonLands optics in San Diego they do some great and low cost lenses especially M12 low or no distortion with good FOV, short focal lengths for the Pi Camera HQ, sorry Arducam if you sell similar but i couldn't find any on your website. That classic line of don't worry about that noise its just my shirt getting caught in the fan.... 😂😧 Classic RedShirt Jeff move. You had better make an Emergency Power Stop button for the Shop on a utility Belt....
OMG... I thought the sound of rain is just from your video but it rained here also while I was watching your video...
Ha, you're the second person that said that! Apparently this video causes random rainstorms to pop up :D
6:57 I have that exact tripod (part of it missing) and I find it still working fairly well. You can do angles IF you telescope the legs, and you have to twist the ring it to fold it out more. the manufacturing isn't great though so it doesn't operate very smoothly
Ah... so partly a user error, partly just it's not manufactured with nice tolerances.
Have you covered something like the FLIR Lepton platform? I've played with them before and they're pretty cool.
Judging by the title I expected to see some night-vision shots...
This would be fun to try out as a camera for streaming or filming videos.
Why would an established business use crowdfunding? then they know how much product to make and they’re not just guessing at what demand will be, they know the demand is. The consumer gets a better price, the manufacturer has their margin baked in, and they don’t have excess inventory. I suppose the downside is that if the product is awesome then there won’t be this large amount of excess inventory. Then why would they introduce the same product back into the market when they can could do a v2, refine the design and maximize the margin. I think it’s largely silly but I do see it being beneficial to niche markets.
That's a good point; I still don't like having such a low target (that makes it feel less aspirational, more of a 'we met our goal so fast!'), but that does make sense versus just launching via press release.
@@Level2Jeff I do think it’s a good point, as mentioned elsewhere in these comments, that the low target is just to build the hype train. It is silly but then this is their marketing push, right? Just one big ol’ train of hype. Kind of like a new era flash sale before the product has ever been sold. I’m more into that Radio Shack going out of business sale, hate to be morbid. Matter of fact, Radio Shack going under is kind of what got me into electronics. All components were like 90% and I finally had little to lose in buying some parts and experimenting. Now I’ve probably spent like $15k between Mouser and Digikey over the past 8 years but I’ve got several eurorack systems and a functional recording studio to show for it.
The alternative is they take out a loan to do this. Makes sense really.
@@hherpdderp it totally makes sense but the least logical ideas are what’s best for business. It makes no sense but that loan would be a liability their business would be responsible for or they can just pass the buck to the consumer in a no-strings-attached-for-me sort of way. It’s like the next stage of capitalism digging the hole we’ll never escape.
14:33 this is where a lens hood would come in handy
I hope things are going better health-wise for you lately :)
I’m wondering how that rpi case stays together. lol the one I got when rpi5 came out comes apart if you lightly brush it, let alone mount a lens to it
Arducam is pretty great, I use one of their c mount lenses on my mft digital camera. Works great on real point and shoot hardware.
thanks!!
Also not a fan of the Kickstarter approach to bankrolling a project from an established company.
I wonder how well this would work hooked up in place of an eyepiece on a telescope to image planets - Astroberry is a great project for that but I haven't seen anyone trying to use Pi cameras with it... can you even set the imaging speed and ISO to levels that would allow it with the Pi camera libraries?
Your first vid with rain (loud and clear)
Participating in a Kickstarter project is like being an 'angel investor'. If it crashes and burns, in most cases, so does all your money. The creator might refund some, if they have any left. So when an 'established' company does Kickstarter projects, am like nope. You are not testing the waters with my money.
Kick starter is good way to let people vote for the product, not always what u make is what the user wants
I'm not sure if you know, but if you pull on the feet of the mini tripod the legs extend outwards and it becomes a bit more stable
I was trying to do that, they weren't budging beyond how far I had them pulled out. It could be they were just cut a bit rough, but I wasn't even able to fold one of the legs back in.
Hello! Does the camera have a module, or is it just a sensor attached direct to the MIPI? Thank you.
Would be nice to see what kind of images you take with these.
Hoping to get the all sky camera going later this year, hopefully by the end of summer... we'll see!
I've been waiting for someone to get their hands on one of these. The imx678 has been available for ages, but only in dashcams, as far as I can tell.
Still waiting for them to appear in security cameras, but I'd much prefer to roll my own using a pi because the interface every camera I've tried is just abysmal.
If crowd funding reduces the risk for the manufacturer it'll hopefully encourage more adventurous product development. Though slightly awkward position for content creators.
4:30 I've been considering buying a big usb powered noctua fan to use as a desk fan like that one in the top left. Does it work well?
It does! I've done it for years now, the main downside is it falls over if you bump it. But you could 3D print or screw in a little piece of wood to stabilize it... or Noctua actually released a custom desk stand for fans now too!
A kickstarter is a great way to gauge customer interest in a product.
Does that little tripod not have extending legs?
those legs extend on that tripod, pull the feet gently
I use it for things on an angle, but it'll be an odd pyramid though..
Didn't you put a lot of effort into soundproofing your studio? Where is the rain sound coming in?
I had the doors open, since this is a run-and-gun 3rd channel video. With the doors open, any sound from the front and back (in the case of rain, it's hitting the roof everywhere) comes right in!
Really sad this showed up in my feed for the first time last night and now the kickstarter campaign has been closed for several days. Was going to back all three but now looking at the retail price I am put off.
What is that compute module on Jeff's desk beside his trackpad? Doesn't look to be RPi branded.
I've been testing a number of compute modules lately, like the CM5 (Radxa) and LattePanda Mu-I'll be showing the testing soon, probably this Friday!
6:59 It literally started raining at the same time of the video and I noticed at the same time you noticed. That was scary lol
Hehe oops!
What is that touch pad you are using next to the white chiclet keyboard. Is it wireless? Thanks
It's Apple's latest "Magic Trackpad" or something like that. A bit expensive but I LOVE it for video editing. Giant flat surface that's a joy to use.
nice
I saw this on Kickstarter but didn't back it because they only offer the 4GB Pi 5. Would that be part of the reason for the stuttering and connection issues?
4GB Pi 5 is generally great for video work, unless you need the RAM for some larger operation or need to load in larger models for AI stuff.
The image pipelines are handled through RP1 and DSP stuff on the BCM2711 and in my testing, the 4GB model is plenty adequate for most things (certainly all the demos I did in this video).
I'm guessing there are just some optimizations in their web UI or ffmpeg commands that would fix the crashing bug.
Jeff, what extension did you use on CZcams to get this design 1:37?
The 'CZcams is making the layout change for no reason' extension :D
I like the old way better, with the comments below the video. Not sure why they stuff all the metadata on the right side now.
@@Level2Jeff I'm fortunate enough not to have this update yet but it probably won't be too long. I think the real goal of the change is to swap the comments and suggested videos. I can imagine why they'd do something that devotes more space to suggested videos: Comments don't make money but clicking on videos shows new ads.
I am far from a camera/optical expert. I have a tenuous grasp on this topic at best. but on the topic of all sky cameras matched with such small aperture lenses and higher megapixels... aren't we just losing resolution? My only real experience is with astrophotography, and the real resolution (angular resolution) comes down to the aperture and never the megapixels. For my all sky cameras i just use 1 megapixel cameras with tiny fish eye lenses. 8 megapixel seems a bit much but please correct me if I am way off base here.
TLDR i don't know MATH 😂.. but i want to learn more on this topic
There are different ways to get the same final resolution and clarity, from stacking images (like with autostakkert) to having a wide aperture / sharp lens and lots of megapixels, but night sky in particular can cause issues with any setup.
I got the hawkeye after you made a video on it, I did the kickstarter and now I just have a piece of junk that hardly worked properly on two different PI's and wouldn't be developed on further. We were given updates about the product through a google doc that was last updated may 16th 2022 which was the fist day the preorders got access to the doc. Originally it was advertised as plug n play...it was not, it was nowhere close to plug n play. My support ticket from july 5th of 2022 was ignored even after I tried doing a follow up two times. I don't know how well it works with the PI5, don't really care after 2 years tbh. Still annoyed that they stated "every pre-order will receive a free camera enclosure" this enclosure is the same one you can get on amazon still.
I mean, if you do the kickstarter, you might get your product (most did, like 90%). Will it work if you just want a camera on a PI? Probably as long as the instructions are well written when the product is shipped. Remember these cameras are mostly for tinkering, like making idk a robot that can actually see you, this will not replace your purpose built 140$ dslr.
I've only used it with their recommended software config, so I didn't encounter any issues there, but it's definitely hard to replace any kind of mirrorless or DSLR with a Pi-based camera setup. I'd love for that not to be the case, though; maybe someday we'll find a bayonet mount camera setup that works perfect in libcamera though :/
something that put the Hawkeye in a hard place was I remember it launched right as Raspberry Pi was transitioning from picamera to libcamera, and a lot of camera software (not just drivers) got broken for a long while :(
How does arducam get the picase design files?
oh they modified it
Was really hoping for some testing in dark environments to see its capabilities...
I'm hoping to test this in a few environments soon-I have only been able to test in the studio and in my basement for a few hours, and it's not like night-vision (it's not like some of the high end Sony/Canon cameras that can pull photons out of the void, seemingly), but it gets a pretty good image with very little light (just one 10W LED bulb in my workshop gave a legible image), and I want to see how it performs for astrophotography especially.
Why do all Raspberry Pi cameras get that pink aura around them? I thought it was just a product of the AliExpress ones I brought but these seem to have the same issue
Usually has to do with the lenses more than anything. Unlike even modestly-priced lenses for dedicated cameras, most of these C-mount lenses (especially the ones under $100) have fairly poor coatings / aberration control, so the edges especially get chromatic aberration, distortion, ghosting, etc.
@@Level2Jeff Hey thats cool, I'm basically a smart phone only kind of person for photos. I paid 6-10 bucks for mine so I wasn't going to complain but when I saw these ones I thought it was odd.
Thanks!
-that's cool-
*this video is awesome* _this video is awesome_
testing the fonts
Established companies use Kickstarter so they get the money up front.
Lost out bigtime on a Coolermaster RPi4 Case on kickstarter. I thought, yes its a trusted company, I can back it. Yes, the case was shipped and delivered, but the RPi4 that was ordered with thecase, never arrived. I had to purchase my own RPi4. No refunds, or communication, just excuses.
I think they do a kickstarter so they can get the money to do things like build the injection molds for the plastic case, or to buy parts in bulk to make them MUCH cheaper... thus: profit. Or they could hire a few people to build the software.... So the ones you have might just be 'prototypes' and are most likely not what the final product will be....
Linus/LTT will mention that some of the tech toys he shows off are just prototypes and he always mentions that in those video...
Did Arducam mention those being prototypes at all? ..... I'm just trying to think of the most likely reasons why they would use kickstarter.... hrmmm maybe they're doing it because they know Kickstarter will give them 'eyes on' their product... it's like free advertising... hrmmm... now that seems like the MOST LIKELY reason for a fully funded company to go onto kickstarter (that's IF they're a fully funded company... I'm pretty sure Arducam is...but you never know I guess)
No matter.... I REALLY like them (excpet for the case.. I hope they come up with a new one, becuase that bulky red & white looks like my sister's old Barbie camera lol)
- - PLEASE make sure to do a night vision demo!!! I REALLY want a god cam for the Porch/driveway etc and I don't want any of that Ring crap that just hands over EVERY BIT OF YOUR DATA TO THE POLICE 24/7 AND DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO TELL YOU THEY ARE DOING IT.... BY DEFAULT!!!!!! (yes... It's an OPT-OUT system!!! they hand of ALL YOU pics and videos to the Police, WITHOUT A WARRANT or even INFORMING YOU!!!! IT'S AWFUL!!!!!! - STAY AWAY FROM RING!!!! - even if you think you don't have anything to hide.... that's how it happens... slowly turning up the heat on the frog in the bath... eventually the frog is being boiled alive and doesn't even realize it... So DON'T LET THEM TAKE THAT FIRTST STEP!)
- wwwsshheeeewwww!!! 🥵🥵 Glad that rant is over! Sorry about that.. I just found out about it and it makes me furious... 99% of people don't even know this is happening... and it is ALL OVER THE COUNTRY :( - 1984 is real..... it's just 40 years late lol
What kickstarter does for companies that already has some success is - give them information that people actually want this product. This seems like great way to verify market and gather some money for that specific new product that doesn't exists yet.
I got in the DAS keyboard Kickstarter years ago. Das had a cool idea and were already a well established keyboard company. It was like a year before I got the product and it is the worst mech keyboard I've ever owned (random keys still get stuck regularly requiring unplugging). They never did a recall and firmware has yet to fix the issue.
I don't trust any Kickstarter these days because of a well respected GERMAN company can't deliver a quality product in their core line of business.... Then it's just gambling for any campaign
3rd comment!! Good afternoon Jeff!!
Yay. Not the last comment!
Forgot to mark it as 'sponsored', sir...
Why didn't they set the IP to 192.168.x.1 That's more of a standard. Sure, you can change it, but what a hassle.
---
Since a screw feel out, I'd wonder about their QC control.
To be fair, I'm guessing the three units they sent here were all early prototypes, and they don't have their full setup for building these things in place yet. I forgive a screw rattling around, but it'd be a bit more odd to see that in one of the units that ships out to backers!
first
Winner!