Eric Lindros - The Rise and Fall in Philadelphia (Sportscenter)

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 31. 08. 2016
  • Aired: 2000, Sportscenter
  • Sport

Komentáře • 153

  • @tenniswilliam
    @tenniswilliam Před 5 lety +19

    the NHL in the day did not really like to talk about concussions and were keen to sweep in under the rug. Same in the NFL - Eric did the players and the league a favour by highlighting the issue

  • @Nightrain76
    @Nightrain76 Před 2 lety +3

    For many of Eric’s years as a Flyer, it was some of the most entertaining sports I have ever watched.

  • @alexgreen1823
    @alexgreen1823 Před 4 lety +29

    The idea that Lindros was a failure in Philly, or a failure in general is simply false. Played 8 GREAT years in Philly that fell just short of a Cup. Still, a top 5 Flyers of all time

    • @tonybenn1000
      @tonybenn1000 Před 3 lety +1

      Alex, he was a joke.

    • @alexgreen1823
      @alexgreen1823 Před 3 lety +6

      @@tonybenn1000 You're an idiot.

    • @Jeneric81
      @Jeneric81 Před 3 lety +4

      This is historical hindsight and probably accurate. But at the time he had the pressure on being the next Gretzky/Lemieux and anything less than being the Art Ross/Hart winner every year was held against him.
      With everything we know now about head injuries in sports he seems like an unfortunate victim of a more ignorant time.

    • @shizuokaBLUES
      @shizuokaBLUES Před 3 lety

      Agreed but I can’t help but think there was some bad karma there with refusing to sign with Quebec. They moved to Colorado as you know and became a powerhouse for good five years. But that’s just my opinion and it’s obviously not based on fact.

    • @wilnerolivier7971
      @wilnerolivier7971 Před 2 lety

      The most dominant Flyer of them all!!

  • @MikeH_41-33_LII
    @MikeH_41-33_LII Před 6 lety +11

    When ESPN talked NHL. Lindros is and always will be one of the greats. At least in Philly. 88 hanging in the rafters. Finally.

  • @joaquingonzalo1945
    @joaquingonzalo1945 Před 6 lety +24

    _"When Lindros was healthy, he was good as any player in the league"_
    Are you kidding me ?
    When Lindros was healthy, he was the most dominant power forward ever to be seen..

    • @caidenusmaximus850
      @caidenusmaximus850 Před 6 lety +2

      John Gonzalo damn straight...no player before or since has combined finesse and such brute force

    • @j-fpilote1576
      @j-fpilote1576 Před 5 lety

      Darius Kaparaitis put an end to that... all downhill after that killer hit.

    • @chrischandler6355
      @chrischandler6355 Před 5 lety +1

      I think the guy he was traded for would disagree

    • @willywhitmore9189
      @willywhitmore9189 Před 4 lety

      Chris Chandler please

    • @kevinmcrae3354
      @kevinmcrae3354 Před 3 lety +2

      Joaquin Gonzalo
      He was a mamas boy a pussy a coward a cancer in the dressing room who never helped his team win anything. A big dopey pussy lazy overrated a defensive liability. He missed two thirds of his career due to minor injuries like scrapes cuts and bruises. Other than that I agree with you

  • @Jay-ef2ii
    @Jay-ef2ii Před rokem

    Hockey is a very beautiful game. Just watch it on TV and watch history in the making because many of its player will retire. Be there, watch it and enjoy the game every minute. May 31, 2023. USA North America.

  • @jamesd.6979
    @jamesd.6979 Před 3 lety +7

    I believe this is an ongoing issue with hockey.. I played from age 6 until age 15. I had 3 diagnosed concussions and I would estimate at least 4 or 5 undiagnosed. I'm 33 now, to this day I experience frequent nausea, headaches, vertigo. I'll be sitting down at my desk and then completely lose orientation for 5-10 minutes. It's terrifying. As a kid they would just say, "You got your bell rung, you're ok." I dreamed of becoming a Detroit Red Wing, I was more than willing to pay the price. It's really sad how hard kids will push themselves in the Detroit / Windsor area to make something of themselves playing hockey.

    • @strategic1710
      @strategic1710 Před 2 lety

      Same thing. Played from 10-16, 36 now, and I get patches of dizziness and disorientation that last from moments to a couple hours.

  • @bluepit2021
    @bluepit2021 Před 6 lety +11

    watching this u would think he was a bust

    • @apointtomake1517
      @apointtomake1517 Před 4 lety +2

      I know, they actually go out of their way not to list how great he was. If he would have been mentally conditioned when he was younger to keep his head up, those concussions never would have happened. He was a monster in every way you could be on the ice.

    • @tonybenn1000
      @tonybenn1000 Před 3 lety

      @@apointtomake1517 Apoint- You say he was a monster, so that proves he did have a mental condition when he was younger. Kasparaitis, on the other hand, didn't take shit from no one, so that was the end of your "bully boy"with the mental issues.

  • @85funnyguy
    @85funnyguy Před 7 lety +26

    If I'm miss diagnosed I'm gonna say something too!

    • @danbernier2447
      @danbernier2447 Před 3 lety

      What if you're Mr. Diagnosed?

    • @v4v819
      @v4v819 Před 2 lety

      @@danbernier2447 He's on first!!!

    • @daniellamont7265
      @daniellamont7265 Před rokem

      Miss diagnosed? Have young people really become this illiterate?

  • @michaelvigh926
    @michaelvigh926 Před 11 měsíci

    HE WAS AN EXCELLENT "ALL OUT KICK ASS" PLAYER.

  • @sametozkan9175
    @sametozkan9175 Před rokem

    90s NHL second rivalrys are Jagr and Lindros

  • @barryjanssen9792
    @barryjanssen9792 Před 2 lety +2

    Great players don't stare at their feet while skating

  • @Paiste18
    @Paiste18 Před 6 lety +14

    If they told him he had a grade 1 concussion and he had a grade 2 that deserved criticism. That's a friggen brain injury, they need to get it right. I never agreed with Clarke the way he handled that situation. He was indeed the best Flyer of all-time!

    • @redduck6483
      @redduck6483 Před 4 lety

      Idk about best flyer of all time, but he’s definitely in the top 8. I’d probably put Bernie Parent and Bobby Clarke over him, maybe even Giroux, but that’s because his career was cut short.

    • @Chalk89
      @Chalk89 Před 3 lety

      @@redduck6483 I love Claude Giroux but Eric Lindros is on another planet compared to G. In 900 games as a Flyer, Claude has 258 goals and 568 assists (826 pts). In 486 games as a Flyer, Eric has 290 goals and 369 assists (659 pts). Claude has played 414 more games yet has just 167 more points. Let that sink in; almost twice the amount of games played and E is just 167 points behind. If we covered his entire career, Eric has more assists and goals but 140 less games played.
      Love what Giroux has brought to the team but it's not even remotely close when comparing the two.

    • @redduck6483
      @redduck6483 Před 3 lety +1

      Charles Kruzits i wasn’t aware of those numbers. I think had Eric’s career not been cut short he would’ve been one of the greatest players to ever play. I was merely going off of what he did before he was done because that’s what we have to look at. His potential isn’t something I was disagreeing with, but I believe Giroux still has quite a few more seasons in him and will likely go down as one of the greatest flyers of all time. But you are right that Eric is another level than Giroux.

    • @Chalk89
      @Chalk89 Před 3 lety

      @@redduck6483 the organization is fortunate to have Claude Giroux and he’s been an excellent representative of the city. Pre-injuries, even the points and impact made by the two is mismatched. Claude joined a stellar squad and eventually took the torch whereas Eric was the team until John Leclair and the reinforcements came. Claude is a great player but not on the level of the stars of today.

    • @redduck6483
      @redduck6483 Před 3 lety

      Charles Kruzits Claude Giroux is one of the best active players in many categories today. I say one of. He’s ONE of the best in Assists, Points, games played, etc. for active players today. He’s definitely one of the better stars of today.

  • @phillycardshark9257
    @phillycardshark9257 Před 7 lety +2

    He is still my favorite hockey player and always will be....no one before or after him is comparable to him. But, Bobby Clarke has 2 cups and is considered one of the best Captains EVER. They are both Flyers Forever. And both HOF's. Besides 8 + 8 = 16.

  • @StephenDoty84
    @StephenDoty84 Před 3 lety +2

    4:09 the key fact there is Orr was a defenseman, though. So he seemed more dominant in his day.

    • @MrJohnnyDistortion
      @MrJohnnyDistortion Před 3 lety

      Orr was a forward disguised as a defensmsn who modeled himself after Doug Harvey.
      Orr was always Boston's biggest offensive threat - on the ice or sitting on the bench that endured 13 left knee surgeries while still being rewarded the Norris 🏆 8 times.
      Imagine a healthy Orr's statistics for 10 seasons?😉

    • @StephenDoty84
      @StephenDoty84 Před 3 lety +1

      @@MrJohnnyDistortion I'd say Orr was a goalie at heart who played like a center.

    • @MrJohnnyDistortion
      @MrJohnnyDistortion Před 3 lety

      @@StephenDoty84
      Is that what Milt Schmidt said when he accidentally discovered him?🤔

    • @MrJohnnyDistortion
      @MrJohnnyDistortion Před 3 lety

      Nice theory Steph. 🙄

    • @StephenDoty84
      @StephenDoty84 Před 3 lety

      @@MrJohnnyDistortion The times when Orr had to play goalie, because Cheevers fell down, he shined. More confirmation of my 'theory'. ;D

  • @rlfs2853
    @rlfs2853 Před 4 lety +3

    Rich eisen with hair lmao

  • @coshannon
    @coshannon Před 7 lety

    All those hits on the Peterborough Petes hahaha

  • @jusmartin7357
    @jusmartin7357 Před 2 lety +1

    Looks like Quebec got the better end of that deal Forsberg is an al time great and 2 time champion take that lindros

    • @wilnerolivier7971
      @wilnerolivier7971 Před 2 lety

      Lindros was undoubtedly the # 1 pick back in '91!! He was heads & above the best player in the draft who was a true generational player. Back in the '15 draft there was a debate about who should be the top pick in that year's draft, McDavid or Eichel?? The fact that there was a discussion that McDavid could've gone # 2 tells you the talent that Lindros immensed when he was coming out after playing juniors, he was truly a man amongst boys who possessed the skills that most players can only dream of. As good as Forsberg was during his career & he was phenomenal when healthy, he was never asked to carry the franchise like Lindros did during his career because he was the 1b to Sakic's 1a.

    • @jusmartin7357
      @jusmartin7357 Před 2 lety

      @@wilnerolivier7971 who was he playing with when he retired. No one cares. His first 5 or 6 years were very good but he was made of paper never won a ring even on all star lineups and still got shut down by the 95 devils the 97 red wings and barely got past the 97 rangers because guess what all three teams knew how to shut down the quote unquote legion of doom. Lindros needed renberg and leclair he never had success without them

    • @wilnerolivier7971
      @wilnerolivier7971 Před 2 lety

      @@jusmartin7357 Some people would say that Lindros made Renberg & LeClair better players because of his presence & all the focus from the opposition was on him!! Who was LeClair & Renberg before they played with Lindros?? I'm well aware that LeClair was a key contributor on the '93 Habs team that won the Cup, but in Montreal he was nowhere near the player that he would become in Philly.

  • @gbolt88
    @gbolt88 Před 6 lety +4

    i doubt the league thought he was soft. a great player with some bad luck injuries.

  • @samuraijim9243
    @samuraijim9243 Před 4 lety +3

    What Fall? He was one of the fastest players to reach 600 points in league history and carried the Flyers from nothing to Stanley Cup contenders. A clear Hall of Famer whose physical impact and leadership was just as strong as his offensive impact. He was the most hyped player in NHL history and every bit lived up to expectations playing in the CLUTCH AND GRAB TRAP era yet still averaging over a point a game until injuries cut his career short. The Flyers treated him like garbage despite playing through injuries and multiple concussions.

  • @ghytgb
    @ghytgb Před 2 lety +1

    The Flyers organization has a lot to do with players suffering from mental health issues. They would never allow a player to be taken off on a stretcher be it at home or away. Sad but true.

    • @wilnerolivier7971
      @wilnerolivier7971 Před 2 lety

      You can put some of the blame on Bobby Clarke for that happening!!

  • @genegeneish
    @genegeneish Před 4 lety

    Im from Philly. I was a Realtor and a customer of mine is a custom painter that worked on Ed Sniders mansion in Gladwynne Pa.
    I nearly met Mr. Lindros but my customer told me that Eric Lindros was one of the friendliest and personable people he ever met. Eric had a crash pad at Ed Sniders house and this was while the home was being re-decorated.

    • @mikewhite4560
      @mikewhite4560 Před rokem

      As a WAITER in a FINE DINING Restaurant.
      Eric came in LATE & Tipped 15%.
      DOUCHEBAG...

  • @dnasty312
    @dnasty312 Před rokem

    3:37 So how many concussions did *you* suffer during your playing days, Bobby? And you never wore a helmet

  • @wanderer34
    @wanderer34 Před 3 lety +1

    Peter Forsberg NHL PPG 1994-2011 1.250 QUE/COL 1994-2004 PPG 1.278 Eric Lindros 1992-2007 NHL PPG 1.138 PHI 1992-2000 PPG 1.356 PHI/NYR PPG 1992-2002 1.312 Bobby Clarke PHI 1969-1984 PPG 1.058 1971-1980 PPG 1.190
    While Bobby Clarke is considered the best player ever to don the orange and black jersey and in his nine year prime, he was arguabl7 the best player in hockey second only to the great Bobby Orr in the 1970's. Fast forward to the 1990's and in the 8-year period from 1992 to 2000, Lindros despite the injuries and concussions, was obviously a better player if you want to consider the PPG average. Yes Lindros didn't have a decent goaltender, and the defense was shaky at best, but as a player, LIndros was just a better player during his prime than even Forsberg despite Forsberg winning two Stanley Cups and Forsberg having more success in the international competitions than Lindros, which is another topic.
    In the NHL Lindros according to the PPG especially during his prime years in PHI had 1.356 PPG and even with the NYR still was able to maintain his PPG to 1.312. It was later in his career when the PPG average shifted downward and even then he still maintains an overall NHL PPG average of 1.138. While it's not higher than Forsberg's average, it's still higher than Clarke's, who had more help with Bernie Parent in the net, and the most feared goon squad during their time (Schultz, Kelly, Crisp, and Dupont).
    All I'm saying is that had Lindros been mostly healthy and had Lindros had a better goaltender and even enforcers, I'm pretty sure he would've had a much higher PPG average. As of this writing, only Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Orr had higher PPG average than Lindros and even the new kid from EDM, McDavid. Once again, Clarke may be considered the best player on the Flyers, but during his time on the ice, Lindros was better in his eight years with PHI than Clarke was during his prime from 1971-1980 and especially in his career!!!

  • @Michael-fw5ef
    @Michael-fw5ef Před 6 lety +5

    For about 6 years, Lindros was the best player in the NHL. He had a great career and was inducted into the hall of fame. Lindros is the 5th fastest player to reach 500 points in NHL History. And he did it in the dead puck era of the 1990s. That means he was amazing!

    • @sergeontheloose
      @sergeontheloose Před 5 lety +1

      No, he wasn't. It was the era of Gretzky, Lemieux and Fedorov (Selke and Hart in one year, how about that?)

    • @Rev201287
      @Rev201287 Před 5 lety

      Wrong

    • @tricky92x
      @tricky92x Před 3 lety +1

      @@sergeontheloose Gretzky and Lemieux were shells of their former selves while Lindros was dominating the league. He actually dominated both of them in playoff series. But, you're probably just a 20 year old douche bag who has no idea what they are saying...

    • @sergeontheloose
      @sergeontheloose Před 3 lety

      @@tricky92x I watched all of them live, you stupid milllennial, what are you talking about? Lindros couldn't keep his head up and was always concussed. Gretz and Lemieux and Fedorov knew their surroundings and were much more agile with the puck and without. Lindros is a classic - "the bigger the wardrobe - the harder it falls". 92 - is that your birthday year? I already fingered some college chicks during those times.

    • @Michael-fw5ef
      @Michael-fw5ef Před 2 lety

      @@sergeontheloose Gretzky wasn't the era of the 1990s.

  • @bigbear8832
    @bigbear8832 Před 7 lety +7

    ESPN blows

  • @ujsj5000
    @ujsj5000 Před 5 lety +1

    He was a Great player

  • @lianepaulin7322
    @lianepaulin7322 Před 7 lety +23

    best flyer to ever to suit up for them even better than you Mr Bobby Clarke

    • @phillytheflyerable
      @phillytheflyerable Před 6 lety

      forsberg?

    • @DexterHaven
      @DexterHaven Před 6 lety +6

      Nope. You sound like you never lived through the '70s. Bobby Clarke was a leader, a franchise, a Beowulf on skates. Unlike Lindros, he was a winner too.

    • @A_10_PaAng_111
      @A_10_PaAng_111 Před 6 lety +2

      I'm from Philly. Lindros was an overrated slug from day 1. He didn't want to play for Quebec because Quebec didn't want to kiss his or his family's ass. Eventually that's why he left the Flyers also. He was toxic. Clarke when he played had the respect of his teammates and never trash talked the organization and retired as a flyer. Lindros was gonna tell Clarke what's what? Lindros wasn't fit to shine Clarke's Stanley Cup and Hart trophy rings. Key word being Stanley Cup RINGS which Lindros has NONE. That Top 5 all time points leader means jack shit with no cup title to go with it.

    • @khav11
      @khav11 Před 5 lety +2

      pronger was head and shoulders above lindros and clark in skills and playoffs perfomances he's the best flyer ever and he only played 3 seasons sadly.

    • @khav11
      @khav11 Před 5 lety +1

      @@A_10_PaAng_111 you're funny how old were you in 1992?

  • @tellsitasitis
    @tellsitasitis Před 2 lety +1

    Lindros was a man among boys in junior. Problem was, you can't skate around with your head down in the NHL. Shouldn't have slept with Brind Amour's wife either, Flyers, could have went somewhere.

    • @MisterMister5893
      @MisterMister5893 Před rokem

      Was she Hot?rod the bod. Maybe Eric was bigger in every way?

    • @MisterMister5893
      @MisterMister5893 Před rokem

      Also Gary Lehman slept with al iafretes wife. Lol. He was rewarded for scoring 50 goals.

    • @mikewhite4560
      @mikewhite4560 Před rokem

      ERIC = 15% TIPPER..
      DOUCHEBAG

  • @broadstreetbullies849
    @broadstreetbullies849 Před rokem +1

    And then Stevens did what he did

  • @daveyboy_
    @daveyboy_ Před 4 lety

    Karma's a bitch eh Eric !

  • @ballsohardu1540
    @ballsohardu1540 Před 2 lety +1

    Remember when espn actually did stories like this and not just woke bullshit talking shows

  • @85funnyguy
    @85funnyguy Před 7 lety

    * if I were miss-diagnosed.

  • @douglasschultz9808
    @douglasschultz9808 Před 7 lety +7

    Should have never given up Foresberg.

    • @Paiste18
      @Paiste18 Před 6 lety

      Is Foresburg's number retired anywhere?

    • @chrischandler6355
      @chrischandler6355 Před 5 lety

      He WON;

    • @ZoltanDeluxe
      @ZoltanDeluxe Před 3 lety

      That was a big mistake.

    • @Chalk89
      @Chalk89 Před 3 lety

      @@chrischandler6355 Played for a team with an abundance of talent including seven borderline HOF'ers. Petr Forsberg was a tremendous player but to pretend his skillset would have been a differentiator on a team void of talent is a tough sell.

    • @dnasty312
      @dnasty312 Před rokem

      @@Paiste18 In Colorado, of course!

  • @toddmurphy3245
    @toddmurphy3245 Před rokem

    Scotty Stevens is Better🏆🏆🏆

  • @peterprincipe493
    @peterprincipe493 Před 6 lety +7

    Blame his parents for ruining his career. Great parents.......bad agents.

    • @Chalk89
      @Chalk89 Před 3 lety +2

      Ruined his career or saved his life? Knowing what we do now about concussions, he very likely could have been dead before hitting 40 if his parents urged him to play through it or return quickly.

    • @peterprincipe493
      @peterprincipe493 Před 3 lety

      @@Chalk89 You miss understood me my friend. His dad never wanted him to play in Quebec. Im not talking about Eric's concussions. He wanted him to play within the American market. So he held out and wouldn't sign with Quebec Think about it? Quebec then became the Colorado Avalanche a short time later. Colorado would have loved Eric. Plus he would have owned a Stanley Cup Ring. When he arrived in Philly once again Carl and Bobby Clarke never saw eye to eye. No doubt about it. Lindros was a great player. Just mis managed!

    • @Chalk89
      @Chalk89 Před 3 lety

      @@peterprincipe493 it’s hard to play revisionist history and assume X, Y and Z would have happened. He may have won three or nine.

    • @Chalk89
      @Chalk89 Před 3 lety

      Meant none*

    • @peterprincipe493
      @peterprincipe493 Před 3 lety

      @@Chalk89 but the fact is......the downward spiral of his career started on draft day.
      And, that is history!

  • @JFM1170
    @JFM1170 Před 2 lety +1

    He should have stayed in Quebec of even the trade with the Rangers he probably would have won a Cup. The Flyers are a failed organization when it comes to winning it all, the ownership sucks. Way to go Eddie you never won after the 2 cups, can't live on them forever.

  • @ghytgb
    @ghytgb Před 2 lety

    He and his brother were on steroids.

  • @ComingAttracti0n
    @ComingAttracti0n Před 5 lety +6

    This guy was softer than my ex’s hymen

  • @dalesmith1584
    @dalesmith1584 Před 5 lety +1

    He's nothing

  • @47tooter
    @47tooter Před 7 lety +12

    A spoiled brat who thought he was better than he was ! . all the hype , all the money , and he was just another good player . he never even broke 50 goals . and was just an average checker and fighter . . Hell , I thought Cam Neely was better than him

    • @mygirlpiper
      @mygirlpiper Před 6 lety +3

      47tooter Yeah just an average player checker and fighter THAT opposition teams game planned their whole team on how to handle Eric Lindros - " Get Outta Here tooter" - And Cam Neely compared to the Big E WELL their is no comparison LOL.

    • @WarReport.
      @WarReport. Před 6 lety +1

      His father was a charter accountant and partner in an accounting firm, that means his job was to make sure companies were on the up and up and not cooking the books. There is an accounting term call Due Diligence which means you do your research and make sure things are what they say they are. Lindros' s dad did due diligence for each team he played for from junior on. When it came to the Nordiques something came up dogshit with the owner so they did not report. Lindros married a francophone woman as well so like said it was the shady business dealings with the owner. His father would have instilled in him to only deal with people in the level and there was an issue. Had Lindros' dad not have been an accountant and one good enough to make partner, he becomes a Nordique and most likely wins a cup or two with the Avs. Possibly never even gets concussions like he did as would not have played those games for Philly.

    • @mygirlpiper
      @mygirlpiper Před 6 lety +2

      michael debolt well I can't argue with your research because I don't know enough of his family business dealings SO I assume your right - But to say Eric would not of received concussions if he played with the Av's rather than the Flyers is ludicrous because the very nature of Lindros game was physical x's 10 AND the biggest reason Eric had head injuries is because majority of times he skated with his head down carrying the puck ESPECIALLY in the center ice open area. Eric developed those bad habits because when he played JR hockey " he got away with skating with his head down" because could just steamroll his opposition, he was a beast amongst boys at that age and Eric never learned that you could get away with that style in the Juniors BUT in the NHL having your head down " is a cardinal sin" because NHL players will just clean your clock and Lord Knows as a Flyers fan I saw all those incidents that happened to Eric - So we have to agree to disagree on your latter point !

    • @WarReport.
      @WarReport. Před 6 lety

      Lisa Moreno what I meant on the concussions is that he wouldn't have played in those games, but more than likely with his style of play and him having his head down a lot would probably have the same result. There is a video on CZcams here where Eric is on a French show and they ask him why and he explains how they chose junior teams and how they had heard negative things about the owner of the Nords and looked into his business dealing. I'm the end of the interview he puts on the Nords jerseu.

    • @mygirlpiper
      @mygirlpiper Před 6 lety

      michael debolt YEP - I saw that video and I think that was a nice gesture by Eric to put on the Quebec jersey and in the interviews I've seen with Eric in his retirement speeches the night of his Flyer "88' banner ceremony PLUS when the Flyers invited him to the outdoor alumni game - " I got the sense he holds no ill will to anything in his hockey career and is at ease of what he accomplished and in the end he wouldn't change nothing." Eric loved being a Philadelphia Flyer, The Good The Bad and the unfortunate fall out at the end of that relationship, all has been repaired with the organization AND THE FLYERS FANS LOVE "88." - Injuries "suck" and it's unfortunate that it cut Eric's career and his unlimited potential.