Three mogul fundamentals

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  • čas přidán 1. 02. 2020
  • Olympian coach Bobby Aldighieri skis us through a few mogul fundamentals. The channel can be supported here www.paypal.com/paypalme/skist...

Komentáře • 171

  • @adaml3982
    @adaml3982 Před 3 lety +24

    Deb Armstrong, thank you to you and Bobby for this very informative tutorial of short radius turn etiquette. The physical descriptions, the technical descriptions, and the step by step specific instructions on how to make this turn correctly. If we all had started 30+ years ago with these very well articulated instructions, we wouldn't have spent decades skiing incorrectly. We pick up so many bad habits, too fast, what we see in movies, versus just good basic dedicated technique. To you and Bobby thank you very much. "It doesn't have to be fast, it just has to be good".

  • @JL-qs2tb
    @JL-qs2tb Před 4 lety +16

    TY for making a series on mogul skiing. There are lots of misconceptions floating around on this type of skiing. Kudos for having B Aldighieri to dispel some them and more importantly explain some of the mechanics in skiing the zipper line. Aldighieri is a legend, he has about done it all in this sport.

  • @mathewallen555
    @mathewallen555 Před 4 lety +28

    This is probably the best ski instruction channel on CZcams. Thank you!! Ski the Fish!

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 4 lety +5

      I have heard that from others as well. Thank you!! Spread the word😉😉

    • @YanVulich
      @YanVulich Před 4 lety

      @@DebArmstrongSkiStrong the word is spreading, we follow you in middle east(Israel) already 😉🤗love your channel!

    • @ErwinvanderWerve
      @ErwinvanderWerve Před 4 lety +1

      cheers from Iceland 🇮🇸⛷️❄️

    • @tw4g56d
      @tw4g56d Před 4 lety +1

      @@DebArmstrongSkiStrong constantly tell everyone I ski with, great instruction, really well paced, great examples. Fantastic work

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 4 lety

      @@tw4g56d love it. spread the word

  • @HD20204
    @HD20204 Před 3 lety +6

    This video helped my skiing so much! Its crazy how much info is packed in this 7-minute video.

  • @pstiley5135
    @pstiley5135 Před 4 lety +3

    Fantastic Deb and Bobby. Just love the way you guys break it down and how Deb just asked the the right questions too Bobby. Big thumbs up from England 👍

  • @kevinp4483
    @kevinp4483 Před 4 lety +1

    Deb, your videos are awesome! Always look forward to them.
    Thank you!

  • @samphillips3382
    @samphillips3382 Před 4 lety +2

    I love your lessons. You have such a nice way of giving helpful advice without making me feel dumb or weak. I'm going on a ski trip in two weeks and will definitely be using your techniques. Thanks!

  • @thomasmedeiros5722
    @thomasmedeiros5722 Před 4 lety +2

    This is a great follow up lesson to your inside leg video and first mogul video with Bobby. I really like the way the idea of making short radius turns on the flats was employed and emphasized. You got to practice the way you want to ski. Drills build skills. Thanks for your great work and video instructions.

  • @nicholaskaiser2370
    @nicholaskaiser2370 Před 4 lety +1

    Deb, your videos are absolutely fantastic. Thanks!

  • @alanbrown5802
    @alanbrown5802 Před 4 lety +21

    Deb and Bobby - Thank you! Seems to me that you teach fundamentals of skiing which are so important everywhere on the mountain. Not just moguls. I've watched most of your videos and I believe they've helped me become a better skier and better skiers have more fun! I'll keep watching!
    Ski Sugarbush ;)

  • @citizenbirdtube
    @citizenbirdtube Před 4 lety +8

    Awesome. In each of Deb's videos I find some new useful tip to apply or drill to work on.
    Bobby is such a good skier he can't really fake being bad :-)

  • @TG-pd3ft
    @TG-pd3ft Před 4 lety +2

    What a great guy and what a great lesson in the fundamentals.
    Deb thanks for bringing that to us

  • @emjaynie2
    @emjaynie2 Před 3 lety +3

    Fantastic demos, thanks Bobby! And thanks Deb, always love your videos!

  • @hanazo5575
    @hanazo5575 Před 4 lety +1

    Thanks a lot for your videos. It helps me a lot to improve my ski technique and also explain better to my clients. Cheers from Slovakia :)

  • @BDiggityy
    @BDiggityy Před 4 lety +1

    Thank you so much for all your helpful videos, Deb!

  • @jondo2010
    @jondo2010 Před 4 lety +1

    Awesome video instructing together, makes it very clear when Deb is commentating his movements! Thanks!!

  • @tw4g56d
    @tw4g56d Před 4 lety +1

    Thanks for posting these videos and the effort you put into making them. They really help and are a great resource for learning. Thanks so much...one day one day I'll be there :)

  • @jacquestejeda5554
    @jacquestejeda5554 Před 4 lety +1

    Hey Deb and Bobby, I've been watching your mogul videos. I love the technical description and thanks to your videos, I've been improving a lot this year. I Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec areas.

  • @larryfinke6133
    @larryfinke6133 Před 4 lety +1

    Thank you thank you!! One more excellent reminder video to watch on the lift!! Great job!

  • @barrybechtold3282
    @barrybechtold3282 Před 3 lety +1

    Another amazing video. I learned so much from watching this. Thanks Deb.

  • @ahburnett1
    @ahburnett1 Před 4 lety +1

    Great Video thanks Deb. Clear and precise fundamentals that pertain to all skiing not just mogul skiing.

  • @MICHAELZHANGCA
    @MICHAELZHANGCA Před 4 lety +2

    Awesome tips. Thanks again. Great video as always!

  • @justaute
    @justaute Před 4 lety +5

    Deb...absolutely terrific stuff. Thank you for asking Bobby to be a part of your instruction/channel. The complete, detailed instructions and description are fantastic. I was reminded of when people/instructor would say "complete" your turn -- to me, what does that mean? As a former collegiate athlete and D1 coach (different sport, of course), but a late starting, high-intermediate level skier, I always ask a lot of questions. It is easy to tell someone to complete an action, but it is difficult to describe the initiation of an action and the reasons thereof. Thank you again.

  • @BernardArends
    @BernardArends Před rokem

    These videos are great. Thank you Deb!

  • @barrywhite4334
    @barrywhite4334 Před 2 lety +3

    Hi Deb, I'm so excited about this video! It turned the light on in my brain instantly and learn I learned a tremendous amount from such a short video! Bobby showing right and wrong said so much!
    Thanks,
    Barry

    • @barrywhite4334
      @barrywhite4334 Před 2 lety

      Slow and good is better than fast and sucky!😝

  • @rafaburdzy449
    @rafaburdzy449 Před 4 lety

    I am so happy that you mation lifting what will become new outside ski. I like this technic it make skis turn really quick and clearly without any problem. And it helps in bomps and moguls.

  • @fmbjmf
    @fmbjmf Před 6 měsíci

    I've watched this video a bunch of times and when Bobby takes off at the very end I always laugh in amazement. Thanks Deb.

  • @lewisyip1
    @lewisyip1 Před 4 lety +2

    Thanks Deb and Bobby, so often skiers forget those important "Keys" of using core and keeping stable shoulder level.

  • @theok4712
    @theok4712 Před rokem

    Great video on proper weight transfer when making turns! Thanks for sharing all this great content.

  • @CynicalWolverine
    @CynicalWolverine Před 6 měsíci

    I like the term “foot to foot skiing.” That’s a good way to remember the technique. Videoing him from behind and slowing it down was extremely helpful. Heading to Park City in a few days, I’m going to watch this video multiple times before I go.

  • @ToddB987
    @ToddB987 Před rokem

    Been skiing moguls since 80’s. This is good instructional advice. Stay tight and compact.

  • @BobE_Nagesh
    @BobE_Nagesh Před rokem

    Great instruction. Thanks Bobby & Deb!

  • @veliveli8996
    @veliveli8996 Před 2 lety

    Great advice!! Can’t wait to get out and try this!! Thanks Deb!!

  • @pixrainbow
    @pixrainbow Před 4 lety

    Really useful. Thanks to both of you.

  • @dand1363
    @dand1363 Před 7 měsíci

    Your questions to clarify things a bit more are so spot on

  • @alant779
    @alant779 Před rokem

    Great advice! You're asking questions I didn't know how to ask!

  • @paulcoyle3444
    @paulcoyle3444 Před 4 lety +2

    Deb - love your channel and videos, some of the clearest and easiest to follow ski instruction videos ever seen online and i have been involved in the industry for over 10 years! Would love to get this content out in front of our client base!

  • @irishkitty7257
    @irishkitty7257 Před 3 lety +4

    I like how he skied on one ski to really demonstrate the technique.

  • @user-ve4gr2su3v
    @user-ve4gr2su3v Před 3 lety +1

    Right questions and right answers...it's really helpful video for me! Thanks 👍

  • @johnc528
    @johnc528 Před 3 lety

    So few seem to understand the key part of turn initiation is uphill ski / uphill edge pressure. Smooth, powerful, connected, balanced, and can be done very quickly if needed (old school we called that “up unweight”). Also great description of core activation in turns. Enjoyed - thanks!

  • @69mag
    @69mag Před rokem

    Have been binge watching your videos, Deb. 1st of season was promising but lack of fresh snow (Red Lodge Mtn) has made me an arm chair skier lately.
    Pinch the grape will be my new mantra..

  • @erlendply
    @erlendply Před 2 lety

    Such great fundamentals, well explained!

  • @mariomejia9993
    @mariomejia9993 Před 4 lety +1

    this guy is very good explaining it, great video

  • @rdbjr52
    @rdbjr52 Před rokem

    Excellent instruction…many thanks!

  • @ardenpowers7730
    @ardenpowers7730 Před 4 lety +1

    Also, there is a lot of engagement of the Quads, adductors and abductors. The tight stance thru the bumps works best as compared to a more open parallel stance. Fitness is key !

  • @dianeboross6978
    @dianeboross6978 Před 6 měsíci

    This is all the about learning the non-intuitive stuff which you don't know it's right (feels right) until you actually do it. Good stuff! Start with the brain and work your way down. Thanks, Deb!

  • @fernandog.aguirre2791
    @fernandog.aguirre2791 Před 4 lety

    Excellent! Thank you!

  • @zmfischer
    @zmfischer Před 2 lety

    So helpful. Thank you!

  • @emilferent23
    @emilferent23 Před rokem

    Excellent que with the "new outside ski" + "pinch the grape" :)
    Will take that with me! Cheers!

  • @gogglebro9421
    @gogglebro9421 Před 4 lety +1

    Deb, Dadou and Alain @ TSV have both been teaching to initiate turns with rotation of the inside ski off the spine and "allowing" the outside ski to follow it. I find it a novel concept and very effective alternative movement. BTW, it was wonderful meeting you at the women's ski week. Your groups were all over the mountain and having a lot of fun!

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 4 lety +1

      As for the tactic you mention, of course. There are many ways to approach the bumps. Good to know all ways for the best descent down the mountain.😊

  • @damjanpavlovski6929
    @damjanpavlovski6929 Před 2 lety

    Deb is 100 procent on this skkiing lessons best coach ever 💯

  • @maggiemconnor
    @maggiemconnor Před 4 lety +5

    Aloha Deb, You inspired me in the Olympics! Happy to see you connected with my former US teammate and Olympian Bobby. He is a great coach because he is super passionate about skiing and cares about the athletes he coaches. Please give him my best. In the words of our former US Ski Team coach Park Smalley, "Keep on keeping on!" Maggie

  • @RickStalkerG55
    @RickStalkerG55 Před 3 lety +2

    Love how quiet the arms are as well

  • @marg1919
    @marg1919 Před 4 lety +1

    This is how I learned, body facing down the fall line and "foot to foot" and new downhill ski, coupled with stable traverse and side slipping techniques when required.. I am still not getting the advice for 60:40 downhill ski:upper ski; seems contrary to this. Guess I will stick to this rather than worry about my uphill ski; seems to work and seems a foundation for mogul skiing. There is hope.😍

  • @TheSnifmister
    @TheSnifmister Před 3 lety +1

    Thanks for the tips

  • @fluid164
    @fluid164 Před 4 lety

    Another great vid!

  • @matthewthemovie
    @matthewthemovie Před 7 měsíci

    You have the best tutorials on CZcams.

  • @kenwheatley1781
    @kenwheatley1781 Před 4 lety +2

    I have been preaching this for years. The simple essence of skiing.

    • @humanbeing2420
      @humanbeing2420 Před 5 měsíci

      Would you say he is carving turns here? Or skidding? Or a blend of the two?

  • @munkeepilot
    @munkeepilot Před 3 lety

    Fantastic tips on upper body

  • @petervandersluijs9256
    @petervandersluijs9256 Před 4 lety +1

    Great video !!

  • @felisaaero
    @felisaaero Před 3 lety +2

    Wow... I'm going to pinch the grape on the slope and drink the grapes apres-ski. Excellent explanation and demo!

  • @kdyw
    @kdyw Před 4 lety +1

    Finally! A coach which finally emphasizes the importance of early weight transfer onto the uphill ski. Thank you! Could you make a followup video about how to smear the skiis to ski in moguls or tight corridors? Lots of videos about pivot slips on the internet but not many go into the detail about how to flatten the skiis and weight distribution between the feet at the different points in the turn.

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 4 lety +4

      Many of my videos address finding the new outside foot early in the turn. Did you see my inside leg video?

    • @kdyw
      @kdyw Před 4 lety +1

      @@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Yup. I've watched all your videos! You're one of the few coaches that explain the concept of inside leg and foot to foot transfer really well.

  • @MS-ef1gy
    @MS-ef1gy Před rokem

    Great video, thanks! I tend to call that upper body downhill skis move with the hips side to side.

  • @santiagobustamante2082
    @santiagobustamante2082 Před 4 lety +5

    So cool, Bobby actually went to the 1992 olympic games in france with my father, i'm wondering if they know each other.

  • @gspice71
    @gspice71 Před 4 lety +3

    “Pinch the grape” - love it, now it all comes together. Thanks guys!

    • @Esperluet
      @Esperluet Před 4 lety

      Please could you explain, my English is rather weak.

    • @Mellow_Mood_Beats
      @Mellow_Mood_Beats Před 4 lety

      I don't like that way of explaining It. I would say It's a rather poor pick as an analogy, when you do that "grape pinching" It leads to the spine being bent laterally. This is not what our spine is biomechanically designed for, It can cause issues on the long run putting our vertabrae on a weak position to deal with sudden forces hitting us, like when skiing bumps. Having the lats engaged and good leg turning creates a stronger and more functional position due to respecting physiological movement of the spine and maintaining a better overall alignment.

    • @nickschneider4830
      @nickschneider4830 Před 3 lety

      @@Mellow_Mood_Beats buddy this guy was an Olympic mogul skier, and an Olympic mogul coach. If you disagree with him, you’re probably wrong.

  • @weirdbeard1980
    @weirdbeard1980 Před 4 lety +4

    Good video. You should do one on kid/dad jokes. I use them in every lesson but after a while my kids have heard them all. The true measure of a good ski instructor is how many silly jokes they have lol

  • @hervedepow4826
    @hervedepow4826 Před 4 lety +1

    Super camera work.

  • @darrenmassey3176
    @darrenmassey3176 Před rokem

    5:49 to 5:57 on video the pole plants are being made somewhat close to the ski tips. Pole taps or pole plants to close to the ski tip instead of down the hill will make it harder to keep the body square to the hill. The more the skis are angled across the fall line the more important to plant the pole down the hill & not @ the ski tip to hold counter through the turn.

  • @JPaul-vu4lp
    @JPaul-vu4lp Před 4 lety +1

    Interesting information in the two videos with BA, with him speaking about not being very "edgy" with more smearing turns, but in the fundamentals video, he is demonstrating that "pinch" turn that engages quite a bit of edge. I'll practice in the groomers to find the right balance between the two.

  • @jazz19101
    @jazz19101 Před 4 lety +1

    Brilliant!

  • @hereisjvm
    @hereisjvm Před 4 lety +1

    Thank you two are awesome what a service what a gift Rock On! (Now can you give me some punctuation lessons? LOL) :))

  • @TKRM2007
    @TKRM2007 Před 2 lety +1

    Upper/lower separation is “Key.”

  • @wtfisdat6382
    @wtfisdat6382 Před rokem

    what I'm most impressed with is finding the fall line, on a mountain that allows boarders, with flat light and tinted goggles!

  • @kevinhoule6547
    @kevinhoule6547 Před 3 lety +2

    Step on your uphill ski - love that to explain the initiation of the ski - (Will be practicing this weekend - while I teach a 4 year old - (Hands on his knees - to push into his next turn) - Love it Deb - had to Applaud ya because long time - first time :)

  • @CostantinoLenzi
    @CostantinoLenzi Před 4 lety +1

    nice work

  • @jenniferandreas6907
    @jenniferandreas6907 Před rokem

    Excellent

  • @alisonhagan4683
    @alisonhagan4683 Před 2 lety

    Thanks!

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 2 lety

      Thank you Alison for supporting the channel. Greatly appreciated!!! Glad you appreciate the content

  • @darshanpatel9279
    @darshanpatel9279 Před 5 měsíci

    Bobby is happy 😊

  • @anjawolfgram7381
    @anjawolfgram7381 Před 3 lety +1

    This is amazing. I love it when we see how to do it poorly as well

  • @andrewdiamond2697
    @andrewdiamond2697 Před 3 lety +2

    This was awesome. I'm a yoga instructor and skier, and this actually ties together yoga concepts with skiing - particularly core engagement, using obliques, and proper vertical stacking - upper body positioning. Great stuff.

  • @normferguson2769
    @normferguson2769 Před 4 lety +2

    My biggest problem in close packed moguls is getting onto the uphill edge before the bottom trough of the mogul. Usually I hold the lower ski and eat the second mogul because once in the trench there is no room (or time) to get the uphill ski flexing into the turn. Maybe I should go with a shorter (than 180’s) ski. Multi turns at high speed on flat are just what I do for leg conditioning.

    • @Tac0caT0
      @Tac0caT0 Před 2 lety +1

      What an awesome, active example of rotational separation! Thank you!!!

  • @youisome
    @youisome Před 4 lety +1

    Im gonna pinch the grape next Sunday.
    I got a good image from your video.

  • @ewallt
    @ewallt Před 3 lety +4

    Even doing it poorly he looks good.

  • @esgee3829
    @esgee3829 Před 4 lety

    First thing to fire is hip abductors (glute medius) on new downhill side as you initiate turn.

  • @lbco5229
    @lbco5229 Před rokem

    Steamboat Springs, Colorado, USA! Hot skiers and excellent snow every year.

  • @dasalpengluhen1747
    @dasalpengluhen1747 Před 3 lety

    See that video first time, so my comment is a bit late 😉 Bobby is great. But he tricks a little bit at 3:14 min. After changing the leg he pulls the inside foot towards the outside leg. It‘s just a real small movement, but it obviates to fall inside especially with the hip. This makes the early load change to the new outside foot much easier. It is no mistake (of course), but it helps 😉 My opinion: to learn the early load change, a skier should learn how to adept the upper body to the gradient first. Because in my opinion this is the main aspect for average skiers to be balanced enough to learn an early load change. If we talk about experts, no question, you‘re definitely right.

  • @elmoreglidingclub3030
    @elmoreglidingclub3030 Před 3 lety +1

    Deb, I’m an old-guy skier from the South (so I don’t get on the slopes a lot) but your videos are great and much appreciated. Really beneficial is your focus on fundamentals. I teach flying taildraggers (it’s a hobby) where fundamentals are everything so I deeply appreciate that. Bobby does an excellent job here conveying what works. Just putting you or him in my mind’s eye and following you down a slope is what I’ll be doing in three weeks at Whitefish. Can’t wait!!
    I thoroughly love your videos! And BTW, when I began skiing I studied the videos of Lito Tejada-Flores. The “feet close together” style is beautiful (I see it in mogul skiing). What do you think about that form?
    Lastly, Bobby mentioned “unshaped skis” in the video. What would be an example of unshaped skis? Any you recommend?
    Thank you!!

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 3 lety

      Thanks for the thoughts and comment. As for "unshaped skis" just a ski with out a lot of shape to it. for example a slalom race ski has a lot of shape to it. A GS race ski has less shape. competition mogul skis do not have a lot of shape to them and they are a narrower ski.

    • @wildbill805
      @wildbill805 Před 3 lety

      In my opinion, Bobby’s reference to unshaped skis was for those young expert bump skiers who run the zipper line in the trench.That’s not you and me.
      Mere mortals do better drifting the back sides of each soft (we hope) bump, or drifting the tails up the faces to control speed. I found “Bumps for Boomers” helpful.

  • @filmic1
    @filmic1 Před 3 lety +3

    Beautiful demo! and Deb's commentary. Terrif.

  • @joem8496
    @joem8496 Před 2 lety +1

    uh oh! he's lost me!
    I missed watching these Deb!

  • @graham2167
    @graham2167 Před 5 měsíci

    Strong quads.

  • @frankm2588
    @frankm2588 Před 4 lety +2

    Deb was so happy at 3:10 when he stood on the uphill ski, "foot to foot skiing" as she has been demonstrating. What he didn't say, is he is tipping the downhill ski, isn't' he, Deb?

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 4 lety

      It is not either or.

    • @frankm2588
      @frankm2588 Před 4 lety

      @@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thanks!

    • @solitone
      @solitone Před 4 lety

      Hi Deb, thanks for all your beautiful videos! Regarding 3:10, this standing on the uphill ski confuses me. I have always been told that, during transitions, I should *extend forward* and *down* the hill. In contrast, here it seems the upper body moves *up* the hill.

    • @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
      @DebArmstrongSkiStrong  Před 4 lety +1

      @@solitone upper body does not move back up the hill. However one can be balanced with the uphill foot. Watch my inside leg video😉

    • @solitone
      @solitone Před 4 lety +1

      BTW isn’t that move similar to what Harald Harb calls the super phantom?

  • @falllinemaniac
    @falllinemaniac Před 4 lety

    How does one foot move to the other in the transition? It's been a mystery (for self taught and schooled skiers alike) on the specific input that magically changes direction. I have identified it in a simple move; make the outside leg a little bit shorter. This simple input will quickly have the skis turn back around. Every turn melts into the next with this. 😍 Skiing isn't about the turn, it's essence is turning THE OTHER WAY over and over again. 🤯
    If you must have instantaneous response then I'll allow some rotary input. 🤔

  • @TihomirJanjusevic
    @TihomirJanjusevic Před 4 lety

    @Deb Armstrong - could you do a video about skiing ice, not hard packed snow, ice :)

  • @bindu9185
    @bindu9185 Před 2 lety

    but I believe (I am not an expert) that in the short-radius curve there is also a hip rotation transferred to the ski to facilitate the rhythm/speed of the curv-ing(?) and not just/only a transfer of weight from downhill to the other ski (i.e. outside ski in the curve), or am I wrong? Said so, the upper body position is essential to avoid loss of balance (which is my biggest problem in general)

  • @CynicalWolverine
    @CynicalWolverine Před 6 měsíci

    How important is the width of your stance? Depending on the terrain, i can ski with my skis closer together. But other times my stance gets a little wider, especially if there is crud.

  • @murongyunhai
    @murongyunhai Před rokem

    when i'm in moguls and at the fall line I tend to go very fast. Every short turn, I can't slow down much and the speed keeps increasing. What do I do to get a stable speed?

  • @2204pc
    @2204pc Před 2 lety +3

    moseley explains the same thing. there must be truth here ..

  • @AtomicB-zq2cw
    @AtomicB-zq2cw Před rokem

    It is quirky that the term “square” means the opposite whether referring to the skis or the fall line. Consequently, a ski pro should always clarify their use of the term, square. Also, in the case of alpine skiing, square means parallel rather than perpendicular which may further confuse clients. So, are we square?

  • @lawrencehicks9607
    @lawrencehicks9607 Před 2 lety

    So he said he's using his obliques to turn? Looks like a rotary turn using his thighs to turn and his obliques help with that process.

  • @Paranormal3activity
    @Paranormal3activity Před 2 měsíci

    Question, … why are your legs together, but when I watch Glen Plake training with mogul ski team from the 90’s … they are a little apart for those guys and the ski are longer. Are there several mogul techniques developed through time ?