GoT HOUSE of the DRAGON -ARMOR-! first review - Is the armor good?
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2022
- Looking at the armor (especially that of Daemon Targaryen!) in the new Game of Thrones series House of the Dragon (HBO) coming out in August 2022. Looking at the trailer and other snippets, to see if the soldiers and characters have decent armor or is it terrible? You can view the trailer here: • House of the Dragon | ...
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I think Daemon's opponant is criston cole before he joined the kingsguard.
Heads up Matt m8 just encountered a new PC game called "1428 Shadows over Silesia" it looks like some kind of isometric view RPG. But it has Hussite war waggons, pikes, spears and polearms seem to represent a very large proportion of the war bands weapons. The intro cut scene seems to my rickety old memory as pretty much completely historically accurate with all the stuff about the Hussite uprisings and Sigismund of Bohemia and Jan Hus seem spot on to my memory.
Maybe worth taking a look. Apparently the games not out yet but has a demo at the moment.
Am not a HEMA student but i love your channel, learned so much interesting and informative stuff from you, just keep doing what your doing m8 :D
Ser Cole is one of the few knights in the story to be the son of peasants and not a relatively well off noble family. His armour could be cobbled together and low quality as a result.
@scholagladiatoria I just finished watching the video you made for IGN reacting to the Fellowship of the Ring.
It reminded me of a great video you and other HEMA greats made a number of years ago along with some of the LOTR actors called Reclaiming The Blade.
I loved it and I think many of your subscribers would too.
Hey Matt, what are those images of you in reenactment from? I'd like to check it out if I could!
The character fighting Daemon is Criston Cole. His ill-fitting armor can be credited to his backstory. A son of a minor house in the dornish marches, he may not have the money to buy a proper armor. That might be incorporated into his arc, and explain why the armor looks the way it does.
That would be brilliant. I was about to say that he looks like a boy who put on daddy’s armour, and it turns out that might actually be the case !
yup, House Cole's crest on the shield was also shoddily painted which makes me think it was a deliberate choice.
A minor noble house doesn't mean peasants though. Especially if they are defending marches, fighting is their livelihood. If there is one thing they would spend they money on, it would be armour.
@@Tom-mk7nd His father was a steward, that armor was all he could afford. If he were a peasant he wouldn't even have those shoddily arranged parts.
@@macferthi in most medieval european kingdoms marcher lords were among the most powerful vassals and had plenty of privileges. Not the most plausible thing to have a poor one.
In the books, the stagnation of technological development is actually an important part of the story, and there are many hints that the world used to be much more advanced. I think this actually fits the world of the books quite well.
Yeah, it's easy to imagine an event like the destruction of a centre of learning such as the Citadel causing a major technological setback for Westerosi culture. Similar events could have happened elsewhere previously, causing a major loss of advancement.
@@BigMikeMcBastard Well not really. Like if the entire world's universities burned down humans aren't going back to the middle ages. Because ultimately humans retain information too. Like people talk about the dark ages and how it was worse than the Roman empire. However in terms of tech, the dark age humans were more advanced than Romans on almost everything besides construction.
Context.
For example it's true in certain things. We know for a fact that they can't make valerian steel anymore, only the most learned masters can just reuse the existing steel.
Also some of the great castle builders and their knowledge is gone. Like how some castles are protected with magic wards.
On the other hand this is just basic manipulation of metals. It's not that complex.
Even without external threats or constant invasions, you won't expect metal working to regress. And even if it did for some event or place. Smiths can pick it back up very easily.
Also Westeros is very fragmented and is never just 1 thing or place.
its only 150 years between this show and GoT. Also, they had more magic in crafting and have recently (right after this show) lost said magic as of GoT times.
Valyrians had pretty advanced building and forging techniques thanks to their dragons and magic and there are some mysterious structures built similarly to Valyrian techniques that predate the rise of Valyrians as a major power, but that's about it. Rest of the civilizations pretty much follow the same patterns as real world, like when First men arrived on Westeros they used bronze and few thousand years later when Andals came they used iron and few thousand years after that they had developed into the current medieval level of technolgy. Sure, the development has been slower than in the real world but that's pretty much just GRRM being bad with numbers
The other good thing about open-faced helmets is that directors might actually let the actors keep them on in action scenes.
Which is surprising at the lack of elbow guards, because insurance would never allow actors on a stunt set without elbow guards for a lot of those intense scenes. So it would make sense to have them in the costume anyways and avoid the issue altogether.
Also makes inserting stunt doubles a little easier too. With the correct camera angle you'll never get a good look at their face. And it probably makes choreography MUCH easier since they can see what's going on.
I worked on a couple of episodes of this. The armour I wore was made of polyurethane and well articulated. No chainmail though. Chainmail is generally made of aluminium or half aluminium/rubber, sometimes wool, depending on the budget. It's time consuming to make and the upkeep is horrendous for the costumers. Those links pop easy and need constant maintenance. Maybe it's a time restraint or budget thing
The weapons are made of polyurethane, sometimes bamboo. They were usually aluminium in the past but by day 2 of filming, they were so dented, you may as well be fighting with saws
I talked to "Corlys Velaryon" and one of the armourers on set. Corlys has this beautiful kris blade with a clam shell pommel. There's even a working astrolabe in the pommel with star charts for navigating.
I can't wait to see episode 4
What.. get out of this comment section... Lol.
Not supposed to have actors in chat..
@@strydyrhellzrydyr1345 ah, don't worry. I'm not an actor, I'm part of a crew who fight eachother in TV and movie battle scenes.
I'm also a massive nerd
@@kriegaffe10 lol... Your good anyway... Was just playing
What was your favourite armour/costume that you saw?
@@mybawzarerichie I saw Matt Smith in his black armour minus the winged helmet. It looked amazing.
Best costume though, goes to my Jesus looking friend. He was dressed as a pirate with a big scimitar stood beside a burning ship and looked like Jaffar from Alladin. Gave us all a laugh on the night shoot, all he needed was the parrot
the poorly fitted armor for Criston in the flail scene may be that Criston starts out from nothing, basically a hedge knight, and has to work his way up to the king's guard
"There are three main things which hit me with those kings guards, first of all... Their crotches..." Matt Easton 07/2022
House of the Dragon takes place in a time of decadence. There's been relative peace for a hundred years or so at the start. Having very showy, rather than effective, armor makes sense.
You can also say that House of the Dragon is roughly 16th century. But the culture of Westeros is such that technological advances don't happen. In fact, they regress in a lot of ways.
I'm certainly happier with them leaving mail out rather than having cloth printed like mail!
Military technological advance happens because your army/knights meet challenges their old weapons and armor can't handle. This is the same problem with other franchises like Star Wars where either tech seems more advanced in prequels or no advancement happens despite a long time span of known upheavals.
Very showy, rather than effective, armor does not make sense in the jousting context. If they joust multiple times in their lives, they'll think of throat protection.
My take on this is: The Valyrian empire is/was more akin to 16th century, like you said. But while they were 16th century in Essos, specifically Valyria, no other culture was. Infact it's more like the whole of Westeros was 12th century around the time of the Doom (destruction of valyria AND all their technological infrastructure and expertise). When the first dragonlords arrived to take Westeros, their armour should look more advanced, but over as short as 100 years, westeros would assimilate the Valyrian culture to mostly match its own, simply because all the expertise, technique and even magic has been lost. So the showrunners should have settled for 12th century with occasional 15th century for select few nobles. Over the following centuries leading to the War of the Kings, as the handful of surviving valyrian craftsman from Essos passed down their techniques, it would have slowly brought Westeros up to the 14th century, and maybe even early 15th.
@@ericaugust1501 I don’t think that matches the way GRRM has written the material. Valyria doesn’t come across as a feudal European type society at all. I think it is more based on the Roman Republic or something like that, with a lot of purely fantastical elements.
@@markfergerson2145 Well how do you explain things like the real world Dark Ages then, where technology very much did go backwards? There are multiple periods in history like this. And this is a fantasy setting. It does not follow all the same forces and trends as our own world.
The guy's armour in the tournament/duel scene is so obviously ill-fitting that I wonder if there might be some kind of story reason for it- e.g. he's supposed to be fighting in borrowed armour or his character is supposed to be relatively impoverished and using second-hand equipment.
That’s all true he is poor and scavenged his armor
I was thinking the same, not only because of the ill fitting, but also there's rust all over it. Makes me think that maaaay be a young Dunk?
@@Mtonazzi Nah it’s Criston Cole
@@Mtonazzi It is Criston Cole, he even has the house symbol of the Coles on his shield (red background with black dots)
@@omnissiah7859 Not all nobility are rich. There are plenty of impoverished or minor nobility (including cadet branches) that can barely afford armor, horse, and a lance for a son. Its even described as a dilemma for some lords in the book. Criston probably came from one of those circumstances.
The only problem i have with all the armor on house of the dragon is that nothing looks like it`s made of metal, it does not shine like metal does and you just see how rubbery it is when they move around in it.
That thumbnail pic of Matt needs to be made into a meme.
"context" will need to be in the blurb somewhere
>when you see your buddy in full plate armor but no neckguard
Regarding your point about the timescales and how there is no difference: The show mentions that it's a gap of about 172 years between the events of GOT and here. This isn't that unlikely, that a society of people would not change much technologically speaking, in that period of time. Technological change is not a given. It depends on the outside driving forces. We have a lot of historical precedent for that, like Japan for example. It depends a lot on how closed off the society is and how reluctant to change they are. What competition do they have. We know that in Europe for example, the constant wars and competition between european kingdoms is what drove them to innovate further. In this context, the seven kingdoms are at peace I believe, having been under the rule of the Targs for many years, so I can see how they would not change much technologically.
Otto Hightower was wearing mail with his plate armor.
Also its possible that Criston Cole is wearing armor that doesn't fit him because of plot related reasons, like him not being able to afford armor of his own.
One thing to keep in mind is, that this show is set after a long period of peace and prosperity. I think it's almost a century with no warfare. So arms and armor becoming a bit less practical and more ceremonial in nature can be expected I guess, particularly on the higher levels of society.
For the Kings Guard I would've preffered individual armor designs with a unifying color scheme in both shows actually. They're high profile knights who probably comission their own gear. Also this is a feudal world without mass production.
A white-haired guy with a dragon wing helmet...looking at it it's hard not to think of classic illustrations of Elric of Melnibone. ..and I love it. One thing though is that in the original GOT series all of the armor wasn't predominantly plate, but borrowed from a wide range of historical periods to differentiate houses and factions - typically 16th century sallet/plates/crossbow for wealthy lannisters and a distinct 12th to 14th century look for the northerners and starks (mail, Normand style helmets with nose bridge and longbows). Great stuff matt, keep it coming!
Jeez, wouldn’t the Elric books make a good movie/series? Haven’t read them for years.
@@Oldtanktapper They would in theory, but I shudder at the thought of the shitshow the current content producers would make of it.
@@ivanharlokinyeah, I know what you mean. Keeping Hollywood’s sticky fingers off it would be my first recommendation.
I have a theory that the classic trope of over sized polarons that are so popular in fantasy art have been influenced from American the artists familiarity with American football outfit in the days before the internet, and the trope stuck around even today when references of real historical armor are much easier to come by.
I think it’s mainly to do with anatomy. People with larger shoulder look more muscular and therefore more attractive stronger etc… so they give the armour bigger shoulders in order to get that effect.
That and miniatures often have huge shoulders to hide joints.
Or or maybe it’s because the show is based on books and the book verse is quite adamant of how technology isn’t progressing 🤦🏽♂️
@@juniornisthal2216 That’s a completely different issue to the oversized pauldrons.
@@willmosse3684 eh no it’s not. I’m also referring to his comment that they should be looking at “real historical” armor. And no, because there technology doesn’t advance. Unlike our own history.
Great video, as always, Matt. However, I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there's a lot technical issues with this video. There are a fair number of dropped/baclk frames and at one point, your audio was completely out of sync with your video.
I didn't even realize this show was coming out
If living under a rock was a person lol
Considering the fact that westeros never developed gunpowder to shake things up, they probably hit 14-15th century level of arms and armor and 'plateaued' somewhat with the technology while Fashions change (favoring or abandoning certain weapon/armor/fighting styles/tactics/etc)
I have LOVED the armor so far! They found a great balance between real world and fantasy. Of course there are issues but the armor has been so much fun to look at.
Excellent analysis as usual, Matt. Just wondering, did you or any of your viewers notice the ear dagger at Daemon's belt (23:45)? It's such an exceptionally obscure and rare form of historical dagger, and I'm absolutely elated to see it represented in fantasy fiction. Maybe you can do a video on ear daggers in the future? Cheers.
I would be happy if i just saw Visor's being wore even if just for a few minutes or seconds and have the actors lift them for talking or breathing or even looking around.
Nothing looks better for a Knight or lord going into battle where you see the stern expression and then they slap that visor down to go into buisness like in knights tale
Also a good way to hide the fact that you have just cut to the stunt double!
Yes, I agree, it does look good to march onto a battle-field with your helmet open, and as the fight begins, you 'slap' your visor down! Mind you, I also sometimes used to go on with my celta / archer's helmet only to be told later, in the beer tent the reason I didn't get many fights was because I was smiling (I was having a good time!) and some of the guys who didn't know our group that well thought I looked "like a psycho!"
Some of the armor looks decent, like that worn by the knights in tournament (although Daemon Targaryen's helmet still leaves too much of his face exposed). But then some of it is highly questionable, like the armor worn by the Kingsguards which looks like a mix of...plate and lorica segmentata? 🤔
I mean, you did have things like the anima cuirass worn by the Polish hussars, essentially segmentata or laminar armor molded into what was the modern style of the time.
To me it really just looks like the Elven armour from Lord of the Rings, which has this interlaced banded look as well. I can't really think of any historical armour that looks like that, segmented armour or overlapping lames are quite different in function than this cross-hatched banded design. Personally I'm just going to interpret this as regular solid plate that is engraved to look like that, as it doesn't really make any sense as a full construction method. It would still be rigid, so you wouldn't gain anything from doing it that way and it'd just be structurally weaker and present lots of opportunities to catch the point of a weapon.
@@mirsh2541 Yeah, I would side with it being a deliberate motif, especially when Matt showed the side-by-side with Meryn Trant and I noticed the Trident engraving. Subtle!
To be fair, this is Westeros and not Earth so their armor would not necessarily be historically accurate to us. What matters most, for a fantasy setting is whether it looks good and to a lesser extent, does it look functional.
@@Riceball01
isn't the functionality exactly what everyone is being critical of ...... just sayin.
At this point I find the "fantasy universe" excuse somewhat tiresome, i don't see it as breaking creativity or unreasonable for costumers to expected to create stylish costume armour that is also functional looking.
As someone who's spent a lot of time on boats at sea, an admiral (and his sailors) having an open-faced helmet would make a lot of sense for a few reasons:
1) Boats/ships are crappy places to fight in/on - there are a lot of obstructions (which move), it's crowded, and the platform is constantly moving. Limiting your vision (and having soldiers who have limited vision) would make co-ordinating any kind of attack or defense extremely difficult. As an interesting sidenote, I had the pleasure of studying a little Kukishin-ryu a few years ago, and their school actually included throws that had direction changes i.e. ways to suddenly change the direction you were originally intending to throw someone. Makes a lot of sense when you find out this particular school was designed around naval warfare. You need to be able to avoid ditching prone enemies onto your mates on a moving deck (or throwing someone "uphill" of you when the boat pitches, so they take your feet out while sliding down the deck). That level of spatial awareness would be incredibly hard to maintain with fully enclosed helms.
2) If you went overboard... well, let's just say it wouldn't be pleasant, but also wouldn't necessarily be unpleasant for long.
3) Having extra moving pieces of metal in an environment where you are surrounded, and quite often covered with seawater = not ideal. Wouldn't be too long before those hinges either seized or broke at inopportune times regardless of how well you greased everything.
Just some thoughts.
English sailors in the 14 / 15th century wore mail armour with plate on the upper body and bascinets, we know this because it was issued by the crown and the records still exist. They were issued to the ships company and not to a retinue of soldiers that may later disembark. Pretty much all of the art of the era also shows people armoured at sea.
That's interesting,@@pmc8451. Seems the English were a bit unusual with the provision of bascinets to a naval force? Happy to be corrected if you have some references.
Looked up some period art of 15th Century Chinese, Korean and Japanese naval battles, and the lion's share are wearing helmets with open faces. Armour (when it was worn) also wasn't as extensive as their contemporaries in England. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any period art depicting the naval forces of any Middle Eastern or North African kingdoms of the same era, so have no idea what they were doing at the time. Either way, I suspect those English sailors were basically considered lost the moment they went overboard. I'd be surprised if a great many of them didn't drown.
We know from the original book series that the Iron Fleet, the premier naval fighting force of Westeros, usually were lightly armored on their ships because of the risk of drowning. Admiral Victarion Greyjoy was considered exceptional in that he was such a confident and dangerous warrior he still wore plate armor while aboard ship.
For me, the gold standard of depicting armour evolution in-universe is still Jackson's Lord of the Rings. The Numenorean helmets in the battle with Sauron have separate metal wings on the side and look a bit Dark Ages, and then the Gondorian helmets in the battle of Pelenor fields look much more late Medieval/Renaissance inspired, but still have the wing motif engraved on them. That's attention to detail.
Except for the detail that pretty much all armor in Tolkien was simple mail.
@@mindstalk tthats the books.
I'm currently researching armor for 3D modelling purposes and came across the Jeffrey Hudson Armour at the Royal Armouries. It's a full plate armour for a boy (36in tall), but it has a gorgeous burgonet helmet with scale detailing and a metal dragon climbing up the back and over the crest of the head. The dragon armour in this video immediately reminded me of it. Very cool to see them getting good inspiration from actual sources.
Funny think about the lack of elbow guards, if you look at the jacket at 7:17 you see it even has grommets where points could be used to attached elbow guards. I know it's not likely that's what those grommets are for but it's one of those "so close, yet still missed it" moments. :D
Thank you for your video. Regarding 25:27, for those who are unfamiliar, the effect of shattered fragments bouncing off of armor and injuring the wearer is known as "Spalling". Even in modern ballistic today, hard armor such as ceramic or steel plate may be wrapped in material such as ballistic fabric or coated with an elastomer to slow the velocity of ricocheting projectile fragments during spalling that could injure the wearer.
Loved the insights on Daemon's armor and its connections w/ historical armor. Everyone else has ridiculing it as pure fantasy and I was inclined to agree with them though I did think it looked pretty cool. Except the helmet; I don't like it, wish they gave it a visor and more neck protection. In fact, that's my main complaint with the Kingsguard armor as well; their helmets expose so much of their face and neck compared to the more historical helmets the show uses.
Daemon's helmet just needs a coif to fill in the gap at his neck and it wouldn't look quite so bad.
I might also lower it a little, the brim was unnecessarily high, and the dragon thing could easily become a functioning navel.
I’d love for you to do another video, whether that’s at the end of the season or even just on the first episode. In the joust I even briefly saw a knight wearing a sallet with a bevor like you mentioned here. Some good stuff. :)
Love the brakedown and the info. Thanks. Some issues with the editing though not to bad.
Man, loved this breakdown of the functionality of the armor. STILL going to watch the series with blinders on however.
Here's a thought- perhaps the unpredictable climate cycles has led to a lot of socioeconomic crises, which caused a great deal of stagnation in development. It would have severe trade problems- imagine, if in our world, an exporter instead of knowing he could get/send goods in 3-4 months when the river ice melted, knew he might have to wait 6 months, or 60...
Maybe a question for you to consider for a video: if we hadn't seen the development of gunpowder weaponry in the real world, what do you think the evolution of armor would've been coming into the 18th and 19th century? Beyond better metallurgy, where would you have taken armor tech forward, if you were around at that time?
Thanks Mat! Another enjoyable episode 👍
For me, I think the armor was pretty good, I just had a big problem with the jousting equipment.
Wearing open face helmets and/or not having beers and gorgets when jousting seems really stupid.
Even in the show, you can bits of shattered lances flying all over the place, wouldn't be hard to imagine that firing into Coles's' neck or Daemon's face.
"One hit to head and you could be dead"
Nothing exemplifies this better than the Stark knight getting his face bashed in through his faceplate during the tourney.
RE: the King's Guard, they seem to have made *some* developments, swapping the large pauldrons for the smaller spaulders. Changing the sort-of lamellar cuirass for a more solid breastplate. Of course, given the apparent thickness of the lamellar bands, it's arguable which is more protective.
the big thing that stands out for me in GOT, is their lack of protection of their lower torso and legs. Great points about the Lack of Elbow armour. Chock it up to Fantasy Film, and actors having to move, who are not used to wearing full plate.
As always, great reaction. I don't cut movies and shows slack for the showing actors faces thing. Hugo Weaving in V for Vendetta and the guy who played Baldwin lV in Kingdom of Heaven showed everyone that a good actor doesn't need to show their face.
There was a lot of pushback making the first Spider-Man. The execs didn't think a full mask would play to audiences. Billions of dollars later...
In the setting of the Song of Ice of Fire, the technology is not as fast as the real world. They don't have gunpowder and the plate armors are used for hundreds of years.
I do really wish they had decided to go for a full 12th C. aesthetic, which would have kind of worked for the lore. I would love to see a modern rendition of that design aesthetic in the time of William the Marshall, the mythical epoch of chivalry and that sort of feel. Thanks Matt.
Very cool breakdown! I'd love it if you did something like this for The Lord of the Rings and/or Rings of Power!
12:00 Matt's war face, love it lol
6:50 So true...learned this the hard way. When I just started HEMA fencing (longsword obvie) I was cheap and sometimes I forget to bring my hard plate protection. One little tap to my elbow, although the other party had held back his force considerably (I insisted that we spar despite my lack of crucial gear), my arm was out for at least a few hours.
Don't skimp on proper protection, and remember Murphy's law!
At 16:23 you can see that this kingsguard's pauldrin seems to actually be articulated, or at least made out of two or three parts.
That 'dragon' armour reminds me of the Kurgan's gear at the beginning of Highlander.
It's based on Elric of Melnibone
Harrold Westerling and all the Kings-guard looks aesthetically amazing
The undercoat cloth looks genuinely thick and durable
in regards to the Tech not advancing...its only like 150 years between dance of the dragons and roberts rebellion. You were comparing it to 400 years of advancement.
I would like to propose a detail that you may have neglected to consider. You mentioned the lack of mail on the arms, but what if it was there and just covered by cloth? If I were brazen enough to display wealth on a battlefield, I would be inclined to cover the mail on my limbs with some fancy textile. Not only would it keep the mail relatively clean, should a thrust somehow make it through it might reduce the chance of infection to the wound. But also an enemy might try and cut those areas not knowing there is mail underneath, giving me an advantage to counter.
The new kings gaurd armour (sans the paldrouns) looks very elven.l, or atleast how I and a few others draw elven armour which is heavily inspired by jacksons & wetas elves
The author Michael Moorcock had a character named Elric of Melnibone...on the cover of one of the novels (more than one actually)Eric is wearing a helmet almost identical to what you see in the movie...it was a piece of artwork by Michael Whelan,,circa early 1970s
At the advent of plate armor, the chest, shins, knees , shoulders and elbows were the first things to be covered in steel. Of course, the helmet had been around for a long time by then. Even Greek hoplites wore helmets ! In early Hollywood mail (not chain mail) was made by knitting and then sprayed with silver paint. Problem was, the ‘links’ were too small…
I don't remember where I've seen or heard something along the lines of "fantasy and sci-fi authors have really dumb notions of time" with the whole ASOIAF saga of George R.R. Martin having virtually no technological advancement in hundreds and hundreds of years
You know I thought about this channel while watching the episode last night. I said "look helmets!!!" lol
Worth mentioning that while some historic harnesses DID lack hip protection (faulds, tassets, scales, etc), I generally tend to only see this happen with 16th and 17th century armours for cuirassiers or for guard units such as the Pontifical Swiss Guard (whose surviving Brescia-made pieces show no signs of ever sporting hip defences). I can only guess that by this point, the armour was not expected to face *quite* as much up close combat as it would be pistols or only brief combat excursions during guard duty.
Now, the lack of a FLANGED BOTTOM to the King’s Guard cuirasses is weird…
Yeah, As the others said. Daemon´s opponent is the heir of a poor minor noble house that can´t afford decent armor, and had to scavenge what he could and ended up with an ill-fitting armor. As a side note, if you see closely his face, you can notice that he is also the "main" kingsguard with all the details on the armor pauldrons, meaning that he got promoted. Makes sense, since the guy is a pretty good fighter.
Vulnerable to being hit by a stick.
Shad has entered the chat...
"Slits are too wide"
- Matt
I wonder how much technological progress occurs in that world. The lengthy winters seem to be a kind of nightfall from Asimov's story, holding the society in stagnation.
Hi, could you please tell me where I could buy the salade you are wearing in this video? Thanks for your great content! best regards
On the elbow protection..... at first it took me by surprise as well, but then i remembered, Hoplites, Roman armor from classical, late classical and early medieval times, middle eastern armors, Persian/Sassanid armors, Samurai armors...... true, in some of those cases it would be the maille shirt or padded cloth that providing protection for the entire arm, but lack of dedicated elbow protection is that uncommon. Haven't seen enough Chinese armors to tell how things were there.
Japanese armors did have joint protection though. Knee protection usually consisted of iron plates woven into cloth that extended up from the knee guards (and would be supplemented by the cuisses), while elbow protection consisted of small dome-like plates that'd be woven into the cloth under-armor along with the woven-in chainmail that'd cover most of the body.
Re the kings guard: Well considering some of the things that went on in the previous show I'm not surprised that the groin area is left unprotected.
Where have I been? I did not know about this new series!!
that Kings guard armour with the interlaced or over lapping plates seems very inspired by the Lord of the Rings Elven armour such as that worn by Elrond
Beautiful sword you have. Is that one from Castillon battlefield ?
Late comment of mine - about the lack of mail underneath full body pleat armor in the 16th century- makes sense for me, since your full body armor is heavy enough already also very dense on the body also you can see that gabs on armpits were protected by like small round shields fixed on the armor
I was pretty sure its a limited series. And there are some serious timeline problems that I really wish would be addressed. There are inconsistent gaps of years between episodes and events that make it hard to follow certain events. And I have a weird love/hate feeling for the intro. They kept the song and general theme of the opening credits, but they abbreviated sections of it and did a half-assed version of the map. But I think they did a great job with casting and costumes. It just initially seemed slightly strange that the costumes/armor got better than the supposedly 172 year later characters. At least that's how I felt and had to assume it was because the story takes place in less war-filled times so standards of their craftsmen were higher. But we all know that tech develops faster during times of turmoil/war (just look at how tech advanced during the GWOT.)
great to hear your insights, definitely need more crotch armouring!
side note: you had some strange editing cuts
The armor in the books was of the early plate variety circa 1400 to be exact the TV stuff is all over the place but seems to generally be the 1490's+ stuff
Great video Matt. But I think it would be improved if you teamed up with a GoT lore expert for future instalments, because quite a few of the things you critiqued can be explained by in world lore - for instance the lack of technological advancement and Criston Cole’s ill fitting armour. But other’s can’t. They would improve your critique, and you theirs. Maybe Aziz and/or Ashaya from History of Westeros, or Robert from In Deep Geek? Check their channels.
I am fine with having no mail as it is fantasy. But they could have some kind of special undergarment, such as in Star Wars with Mandalorian armorweave (essentially cloth imbued with Mandalorian iron - Beskar). They could have done something visually very impressive with that. I do not like the helmets much, far too open faced. Use visors! And yes, neck protection. Otherwise, looks good.
Here's a question. What movies or TV series would you say DO have top tier armor representation?
Love the aesthetic, whilst I wouldn't want a helm with dragon wings or anything that a foe could grab on to and pull me down.. looks badass.
That duel in 21:19 - you can clearly see the difference in materials - metal vs plastic armor. In the end the "fancy one" looks more silly in comparison (it reminded me batman thought, which is a plus :o) )
After watching it I think they decided to go with less covering armour and more bulky armour as a way to show the slight progression between the show towards the more advanced armour in the original show, I think this is actually really clever as the books say that there is a stagnation and in order to create the same feel of the world in both shows but wanted the new show to look older and as such simply made the plate armour look similar just work less well.
Bit of a pet peeve of mine, that technology (and culture) tend to be the same over a period of time in whatever fantasy setting. Even if people lose technology and stop advancing it doesn't stay the same unless people actively try to reinforce staying the same. Modern Greek for instance is very similar to Classical Greek, but that is because there has been specific policies to go back to Classical Greek repeatedly over time. It's not that it has been unchanged, but been changed back. Governments, cultures, clothing, cuisine, language, these all work the same for this.
In the GoT universe there are some theories that technology is being deliberately stagnated by some groups. Take the Maesters for example, in the show Sam finds a book on how to heal Grayscale (in the restricted section I think?) and also Johns true parentage. How much other information are they hiding?
There's even theories that GoT takes place in a post apocalyptic world and that they used to be super advanced, just look at structures like The Wall and other great buildings in Westeros like Storms End, which hasn't gotten any cracks or holes in 8,000 years. They've clearly regressed a lot in tech and lost a lot of know how like how to make Valerian steel swords.
How would you explain Daemon’s cuirass? I think it would probably have a solid plate over the stomach, and the bits that look like scales are just riveted on top as decoration. If not it would be a considerably weak cuirass
Thanks for this video. I care for historical accuracy an was kinda skeptical of the Dragon stuff, especially given GoT kinda patchy record on accuracy. But this sounds pretty good, all in all.
To be fair one of the main reasons we stopped using plate armor was because of the invention of gunpowder and firearms, that doesnt seem to be the case in GoT so it stands to reason they just havent found a reason to stop using the plate armor or a means of improving on it
I would love to see the show display an evolution of armor as the conflict begins to brew. At first, it makes a lot of sense that this regime would focus on symbolism and aesthetics in their armor and arms rather than functionality, as they have been comfortably ruling for decades now. The knights themselves are much more concerned with their image as well, because they too haven’t been to war, nor their fathers, or their fathers’ fathers.
Thus, once conflict breaks out, a logistical problem with the armor being less functional could occur. Whatever side fixing the issue first, having an early upper hand in battle that even dragons cannot equalize.
I doubt they’ll take this direction as it would distract from the main characters and their emotional conflicts by focusing too much on logicisitical issues but, I think if they did manage to squeeze it in, it would be a wonderful way to make the show not only more realisitic but also characterize the change in tone from the Summer Knights, green as they come in their shiny ornate armor, and the later made, battle hardened veterans in their less beautiful but more functional armor.
Jason of Modern History TV tells where the spaul or flange of his amour saved him IRL when a jousting lance was caught by the spaul and did not drive itself into his groin which probably would have been very painful based on my experience with groins.
The Clip of the Men with Banners inside the keep is the Selection of "Kings Guards" or the White Knights... Ser Criston Cole in the middle, whom Princess chose because he had seen some War, not being noble, showing off in the Tournament or Princess showing intrest into Cole or plainly because how her father & his Advisors been treating her.. she picked him, haven t fully read the book myself, but very Happy to see more being brought too the TV-Screen, not much unhappy with Armor used for the Show, noticed what U said here...but I think it could be Budgets or the General look too show whom the White Knights are.
The Kings Guards or White Knights you can say fits the Knights Templar Order in that sense, except their mission is to Protect, fight & die for the Monarch & its family its been orderd to Protect, like they are Seven in total ( The Commander Included, current being played by Graham Mactavish in the show) I am sure to be Corrected, but 4 out 7 Always will protect the King/Queen/Monarch at all Times, might be Switched so (they can rest, sleep/eat etc) the other 3 is always assigned to other parts of the Royal family, either the Monarch's Spouse & the Heir of The Throne or the Spare.
Part of the reason the armor doesn’t advance is there has been relative peace for a long time and this is only the beginning of major conflicts again, before the song of ice and fire. Also the kings guard paldrouns are in 2 pieces, overlapping plate. But yes not elbow and mail is silly, but again this has been a very peaceful time.
I was holding on to some hope that there might be some real hema type fighting. After playing kingdom come deliverance. Its so much more intense.
01:44 that armor (orange guy) looks actually amazing
Could they be wearing jupons over mail armour for a lot of these? i.e. to protect the mail from the elements?
I love how Matt is describing "Heroic armor" in the historical context, and it basically sounds like functional Renaissance cosplay of ancient heroes.
Would the lack of chain in, especially the atrium scene, be forgivable for the fact that they might've opted to wear only the expensive plates as a "show of bling"? I mean obviously if they'd go to a tournament with those setups straight after it would be a problem, but weren't there often nobility with ceremonial armor, which would had been more lightweight for a full day's posing in mind?
On the contrary ceremonial armours(and weapons) were on general heavier than armours used for combat, its not like you will be moving constant or doing extremely strenuous activity such as combat in ceremonial armour so the weight wouldnt be much of an issue. Another thing is ceremonial armours were made to awe and to enhance the image of the person wearing it, so they had alot of decorations, ornaments and exaggerated pieces that would add extra weight to the the armour.
Just what I was thinking. I kinda doubt they went into that level of detail in the show, but it seems entirely reasonable to me. I doubt historical Knights in court were putting on their bevors, for example.
I can say for the velayrons their armor makes sense their mostly naval warfare so they’ll want to be as mobile and light as possible for ship to ship fighting though I think they should just wear chain mail instead
Making a good real iron/steel armor is lot of work (and money) and ther use it for short time. Maybe the money part can be solved later shell the staff if the serie or movie is done. But i think aluminium is fairly cheap light (but have some weight), behave as metal, and relative easy to work whit. Maybe must be painted, or get covered white iron for look like it.
Regarding technological progression, it wouldn't be that much. Daegon (SP?) was the old blind librarian at the Wall. Unless I'm mixed up (entirely possible)
From the thumbnail, I thought you were Matt Smith in a new targaryen armor
the opponent in the tournament is well, in a tournament. poorer knights would someties have more basic armors that protected you from most damage, and chainmail in a non-lethal tournament setting would just slow you down. Most fighters nowadays in the medieval combat league hardly wear chainmail because it's heavy, and non of the fights they are in need to protect sharp blades as they use dull swords and axes.
Where did you buy your suit of armor ? It looks fantastic.
Little nitpicking: The tournament where the guy gets stabbed in the throat by a lance doesn't appear in the first episode of Game of Thrones, but rather in the third or fourth episode or so
Those pauldrons look very similar to those of the Swiss Guard.
Are you planning on doing a similar video for Rings of Power?
Can you make a review on the armor that was used in Peter Jackson's films (LOTR and The Hobbits) it would be much appreciated if you do.
I was wondering about Daemon wearing an open faced helmet during a joust. Wouldn't that make him vulnerable to all those splinters flying around?