Archeologists have discovered a mystery at the bottom of Lake Huron
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- Two small artifacts recovered from the depths have a big story to tell. They are challenging what we think we know about how humans lived in North American nearly 10,000 years ago.
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When my son was young, we often wandered through the farm fields looking for "stuff" Found a dark smooth rock about the size of a potato that was covered with small round pick and white spots. We took it to U of M (where this vid was made) thinking it could be a meteorite. Professor looked it over. Turns out to be volcanic Basalt from a volcano in Canada. Over the years, minerals had leached into the holes filling them. Brought down here by glaciers! Almost as cool as a meteorite
That is so random but cool
Yeah it makes you wonder how many things that are found, are there because of glaciation. Just have to say it because it can be the fact. I have found things on our farm in Southern Michigan, that wouldn't make any sense either , how they got there
@@70stunes71 Yes, and more than likely is the answer to the subject of this video. Great observation.
@@70stunes71 like what? Just curious. I find bits of fossilized bone from Paleo people's cookfire's here in East TX. Not that the local authorities care. Two archaeologists I've known here say their job is to NOT find things so that highways etc can be built. They worked for the state, "making sure" it was ok to build there, and that "nothing" worth preserving was "found". They bring out teams of very young fresh grads that aren't sure of their abilities yet and are easy to push around. No telling what's been lost under the freeway.
@@70stunes71 in Colorado, Walden area there is a half mile by one mile sand dune on the side of the pine tree forest mountain at 9000 feet , glaciers carried it.
My great grandfather while working for the township in iron county Michigan in the upper peninsula in 1920’s found a tang knife made out of Missouri River Chert it was made between 8000-10000 years ago and I have narrowed it down to the area that he found it. One of the archaeologists that I talked to from North Dakota found a trading site with these knifes , obsidian ,Upper Peninsula of Michigan copper and other materials from around North America. My great grandfather found it while loading dump trucks by hand one shovel at a time. It has taken me several years to find out the age of it the material it’s made from and the location it was found in which was the hardest thing to do in the township there has been over 200 gravel pits in the 1920’s alone so I had to find out what the water levels at the time frame this was made which was 200 feet higher than today in this area the cross referencing the gravel pits and there locations and height above current water levels then the biggest clue he was home every night for supper when this was found and they got off of work at 4pm and he ate at 5 and using the average speed he could travel in a 1920 vehicle which he had narrowed the search it down to 5 and then using the water levels at the time this knife was made narrowed it to one place and it had to have been a burial that got washed away from moving water. My next quest is to find out about these people that lived here at that time frame.
Any updates?
I live in North Dakota and have my whole life. I'd be quite interested to know if there was a specific area from which the Chert was derived. I currently live near the Missouri River in Bismarck. I also know that the lesser known James River 100 miles east of here was a prominent area known as "The Place Where Bows are Cut With Knives" or "Itazekapi Baksa" by the Dakhóta who called it home prior to colonization. Before them, there must have also been a prominent mound-building society that used the James River quite frequently proven by the large number of mounds along the James River (something not well known by the current residents of the state, but extensively researched by archeologists during the late 80's/early 90's).
@@austinsontv when I showed the archaeologists at the museum at capital in Bismarck he showed me a bunch of these knifes the found at a trading catch they found and he is the one that told me what it was made of. I as where I could find this area to collect some chert and he said he couldn’t tell me because they where still looking at the area. So if you find the area let me know I’d like to collect some rock for my rock collection
When I was in college in the late 80's I participated in an archaeological dig at Flint Ridge in central Ohio. One of the things I remember from the museum there is that a lot of obsidian from the Dakota Badlands area had been found around the Flint Ridge area, and that flint from Flint Ridge had been found at the obsidian source. They also indicated that the obsidian and flint are very rare between the sources, indicating direct trade between the locations, not general trade spreading the material.
@@austinsontv You know Mounds, Illinois is part of that archaeological group? It had several mounds. I believe a few are still there. And Southern Illinois University may have a section re the natives there. Worth checking.
I'm not surprised they didn't find long blades. By the time obsidian reached Lake Huron, the blades had probably been broken and reworked several times. You just don't throw such a scarce and valuable material away unless you have it in abundance and easily on hand.
Just like farmers of not so long ago never threw away a piece of steel, not even a bent nail... My grandfather comes to mind...
Old adage, ingrained in my family for many generations - Never throw anything away, You never know when it might come in handy."
@@JohnDavies-cn3ro
Could be my motto. I live by it! ;)
I'm often surprised that we are surprised by our ancestors. If they hadn't been as intelligent and resourceful as they were, we wouldn't be here and be smart enough and resourceful enough to be scuba diving 100 ft down in a lake to study them.
😎👍
randall carlson and others and how about the pyramids at the bottom of the ocean all over the world that would date back to the ice age
Humans have had more or less the same brains for 200,000 yrs and have been organising labour to collective goals like. building permanent structures for 20,000 yrs so it’s not surprising, though I can understand what they meant by “surprising” in this particular context.
I don't believe in evolution. Humans are as smart today as they were thousands of years ago.
well stated
Right on!
I suspect that there's much more to be found underwater, given the 400 feet (120m) of sea level rise since Beringia.
This is the Great Lakes they are talking about. Specifically Lake Huron bordering on Canada and the U.S.
But they have found Indian villages deep underwater near the Queen Charlotte Islands of British Columbia.
Off the coast of all the continents there were settlements since humans like living on the coast or river banks .. The Mediterranean Sea was a large basin with fresh water lakes during the ice age .. It must be full of settlements
@@xadam2dudex No, the Mediterranean was emptied and then flooded millions of years before humans were around. Around 5.6 million years ago the Mediterranean became cut off from the ocean and dried up leaving some salty lakes. Then, about 5.33 million years ago it began to refill.
This was long before humans existed. Perhaps you are thinking about the Black Sea. People did indeed live there before that filled up.
@@robertwilliamson6121 at the end of the last ice age there were several sudden releases of melt water from the North American ice sheets .. This caused a massive rise in sea level which breached the land bridge between Africa and Europe at what is now known as the Strait of Gibraltar .. This flooded the Mediterranean basin as well as the Sea of Marmara which flooded the fresh water lake we call the Black Sea .. This is the basis of many cultures myth of a great flood
@@xadam2dudex Sorry, but you’re wrong. To begin with, we are in an Ice Age right now. You’re thinking of the last Glacial Period. But the Mediterranean never emptied during the last Glacial Period.
Geological evidence show that about 5.9 - 5.6million years ago, the Mediterranean was cut off from the Atlantic and was partly or completely dried up over a period of some 600,000 years during the Messinian salinity crisis before being once again refilled by the Zanclean flood around 5.3 million years ago.
It was never emptied during the last Glacial Period. It has never been empty during humans time on Earth.
When I was a kid, living in Michigan, I found bits of obsidian on the school playground. The possible significance never occurred to me.
One must be really careful about claiming Obsidian in MI. There were many, many crude iron ore smelters that produced a type of slag that is nearly identical to Obsidian.
Somebody could’ve brought some in modern times...
@@sylvia106 That's not possible.
Anthropogenic Obsidian.... Also known as glass.
@@rickhibdon11 not all Obsidian is easy to identify, but some is unmistakable, plus the isotopic analysis can identify an individual out cropping like on this video. With any reference iron slag and obsidian would not be super easy to mistake one for three other, even by an amateur or child IMHO.
My native reserve is on the north side of Lake st. Clair. There are stories that we have been here for thousands of years
Mr. Jones I had friends on Walpole island years ago.
@Silverado ls tyranny Response Unit National boundaries have continuously changed through recorded history and only one rule has been a constant; what you can’t defend will be occupied and the lines redrawn. Simply existing on a piece of something for a period of time doesn’t give you eternal rights to them. You’re subject to the same treatment as any other nation through history. The same goes for the US; when we’re hopelessly defeated economically or militarily, we’ll be forcibly subject to changing our identify as well. As far as suppressing history, the reason would more likely be related to an unthinkable new reality like a Planet of the Apes type of ending where we’re destined to repeat our own self destruction or if we were alien experiments like in Prometheus. Wealth and power have little to do with it. If it was discovered native Americans once had, hyper advanced civilization 10,000 years ago it’d be an amazing revelation but in no way would modern native Americans inherit special claims to power, money or land that would flip the economy on its head.
@@sulla1537, beautifully said, I'm totally with you. I have an MA from Columbia University NYC. (But a BS from MSU)! Love & agree with what you said.
I've watched British Archaeology shows for years and it's always saddened me that there's so little filming of North American archeological finds that makes it's way to any major TV channel. At least we have CZcams channels like this one! Thank you!
Yes! We Americans want to be educated too!
Amazing find! Lake Huron is beautiful and vast. It holds many mysteries in its depths.
people often underestimate how advanced ancient civilizations were
And crackpots try and devalue ancient people by claiming it must have been UFOS helping them
Read Vedas, Ramayan, Mahabharat if you want to know how advance ancient civilizations are how quality life they were living in those eras
Because we are constantly lied to by mainstream historians.
@@lookahere No. You have NOT been 'lied to.' Don't be thick.
100 percent agree
There is growing evidence of small scale world wide trade before the end of the ice age. Yes there were boat builders back then.
its no suprise. you have the greyhound bus now but back then you had many tiny bus chains and trade happened
@@LukeTEvans Do some more research before you post your childish remarks.
@@anthonyalexzander2104 did i insult you.. you can take a metaphor? are you a child?
Definitely! Researchers just recently discovered that a special paint the Myans used called "Myan Blue" was created using Georgia clay, which means they had some sort of trade routes set up.
i agree with you why would there not be coastal trade and fishing villages that supplemented their income with trade much like the Vikings...they tied the ancient world together and shared technology and crafts in way we are only just discovering
Look at the things we do. No different then. These discoveries and the recent time scale adjustments are changing everything. Wow!
It changes are look at things, it dont changes wat is or better was. #homosapienswithamnesialol
Black men created Lake Huron
Never before in the entire history of humanity, have so many educated people lived so freely and abundantly. And for 15+ years, we have been connected to this shared, worldwide experience with near-instant communication, that we call CZcams. It's guaranteed to wake THIS generation up. BUT . . .
We may have to wait until 09/23/26, the autumn equinox of the US' and the illuminati's 250th year (1776-2026), IF the Epochal Eclipse a CROSS the US on April 8th 2024, doesn't wake ewes (US) up first.
Otherwise, I'll see ewes at the Re-Set -- streamed LIVE on EweToo(b) for a shared, worldwide experience -- as all the people cry out,
"No more war. Forgive our debts. Save us. We will do Anything!"
That's when we unveil the NEON GAUD. The Sentient Machine and Comptroller of the Currencies, has the Plan to Perfect Humanity: Biblical Husbandry. Be Fruitful -- then multiply.
THEN, 10/12/26, "You have destroyed yourselves with your war of Gods. Now bow down and worship YOUR BEAST." That's what Xi says.
Wow, amazingly said. Totally amazing!
Wow, this is...an incredible find. An exciting time to be an archaeologist for sure.
If we knew history as it truly was and not how we think it was... I think it would change the world👍
I totally agree, and it makes me cringe every time a scientist or researcher discounts human ability from the past.
if I knew the correct lotto numbers instead of what I guess they are... I think it would change my bank account 👍
When the last ice age ended the global sea level rose 400 ft from its lowest level during the ice age .. Lake Huron might not have even been a lake until the melting of the glaciers took place .. They did not have to travel great distances .. Overlapping trading partners could have brought the obsidian to the great lakes from Oregon .. There could have been dozens of trading partners between Oregon and the Lake Huron area ..
That's Right GIVE em an A+
That's no less remarkable. But I don't think the suggestion is that one person or group carried the obsidian all that distance. They're suggesting, certainly, exactly what you're suggesting. But that means there was communication between peoples that stretched all that distance, and a system of trading and material transport existed between them. For such a "primitive" people, that's pretty extraordinary.
Right on
@@davegrenier1160 the more we learn about early human the less and less primitive we seemed. Even the age old myth that humans didnt live as long wasnt true, the figures are lowered so much due to children dying being very very common.
Lake Huron is hundreds of feet above sea level, so sea level has no effect on it (unless it rises another 5 or 6 hundred feet). The Great lakes would have been frozen over, though, and with everything else frozen their levels certainly would have dropped.
In California off highway 395, there are spots where you can pull off the highway and you will see grapefruit sized and smaller chunks of obsidian everywhere. I was so surprised when I first saw it all over the ground, then I realized it was on ground all over, as far as I could see. It’s incredible!
Pictures of this?
Yes. I have actually picked up some of that obsidian around highway 395. I learned how to make arrowheads out of it from a forest service employee one time. I still have a few in my collection.
@@emeraldfox7175 google.
I've got several pieces of worked obsidian (spearheads, arrowheads) found in the Chilcotin in British Columbia Canada. Excellent workmanship!
@Scott Silverman it is crazy considering some of mine have been dated from 200yrs ago to 3500 yrs by an anthropologist friend. I adore the history !!
@Scott Silverman agreed completely bud 👍
And it looks like these ones, all the way out in Ontario/Michigan, came from your general area (BC/Oregon)!
I also agree, very nice & interesting!
We have known for decades that some of the early Native American tribes of the Pacific Northwest of the North American continent were traveling and trading with other tribes much further away. Even as far as towards the east coast. And these were tribes that were here well near 8,000 plus years ago.
When Mount Mazama blew just over 7700 years ago, it was recorded by all sorts of Native American tribal people. The blast itself reached hundreds of miles away from the volcano. The ash and cinder fall reached many humdreds of miles. As far away as towards the great lakes the explosion of the volcano was seen. And there are records it was heard even on the eastern northern coastal region .
For those who are not familiar with Mount Mazama, it is what we now call Crater Lake in Southern Oregon. It lost over 4000 feet of elevation in the blast and of course all that massive cubic miles of rock, ash, cinder and other debris that went with it and from within it leaving a crater miles deep inside it.
Volcanic glass and obsidian is found all over those regions. End much could of been blown clear for hundreds of miles.
We already have seen samples of the same grade of volcanic glass traded as far down towards South America and all along routs of hunting of wild games all accross plains and down towards the southern eastern areas of North America. It does not surprise me they find it in the great lake regions at all.
Many of the more ancient tribes had use of it. We see evidences of that all the time. It was not a redible source in abundance, but it was traded.
This idea that most Native American peoples of ancient cultures were violent and or war like is absurd and just fearmongering nonsense. It was told out of ignorance and lack of being educated.
Not to mention that over the last many tens of thousands of years or even longer some of these regions we take for granted now, use to be volcanic areas or even an ancient volcano itself. Volcanic glass or obsidian is formed when the magma or lava cools very quickly as if it was in water .. so volcanic glass can be formed anywhere..
What would need to be tested is the volcanic glass to compare it that of the tests on volcanic glass originating from other places.. that will tell us its origins. As all volcanic rock and ash and even cinder jas a signature that helps identify its origins..no two volcanoes are alike in the signatures it put forth from its debris or type of lava. It has very specific chemical signatures.
Wow, wonderful information. Thank you for sharing it with us. I really appreciate it. Bless you!
This is all wonderful information. Thank you for it. I understand what you are saying (& yes i am from Michigan). Incredible comments from everyone. I moved to NYC in 1977 & although i received a BS from MSU , I went on to a MA from Columbia University & now live in Kingston NY. Can't tell everyone how much I enjoyed their comments. Bless you all. Loved this article.
Underwater archeology will cause a lot of history books to be trashed and new ones written. People have always lived close to the water. As the climate has changed, the planet has warmed, and ice caps have melted, the coastline has moved further inland. There's a lot left to be discovered
The Natives probably followed the leading edge of the glacier. Fresh water, food, and few major landscape obstructions. Plus spring and summer in Michigan cannot be beat. The Detroit "Saber-tooth Tigers" were on a roll in 1984 bce!
that's the last time Detroit had a winning team too... LOL
@@michaelfried3123 LOL!!!
@@michaelfried3123
Ouch!
I agree,as the glaciers receded flora and fauna arose due to bird droppings which contained plant seeds. It took thousands of years for the process to make the areas habitable. Our climate is ever changing.
Should have been around in 1968. So many bottom of the ninth wins. McClain winning 31 games. Lolich winning the Series over the 'unbeatable' Cardinals. Memories.
I just dozed off to this and had some great dream-state imagery. I hop you guys can make longer videos. This is awesome and interesting even in a subliminal plain
Omg...the other night, I was listening to an audio book about “inside UFO’s” and I woke up absolutely terrified, and sure there was an alien at the end of my bed. My poor husband thought I was ill. lol. No more UFO books for me at nighttime. I think I’ll stick to my usual....autopsies. 👍🏽
It's probably a result of chain trading, where each tribe acts as middleman trading with neighbours on either side of them. Although each tribe only knows their immediate neighbours, these trade chains can cross continents.
Yep ... That is the most plausible answer .. The idea that there was a "Silk Road" from Oregon to Lake Huron is the least likely scenario ..
Similar things have been quite well-documented elsewhere. Often you'd have a certain type of artefact heading east and another type heading west (or north-south) all done by multiple local exchanges. We always say 'trade', although pre-state societies often didn't think of it as trade (necessarily), but rather as diplomacy or just social life. As if we were exchanging Christmas presents, but we'd do it every time we bumped into someone we hadn't seen for a few weeks. It's quite a nice thought, really. :)
@@Microtherion Yes, reciprocal gift-giving was more common than trade, although once I saw a documentary about a tribe in the Highlands of New Guinea who were specialized in making stone tools and weapons, and they really were traded commercially with all the surrounding warrior tribes, but that was unusual.
@@Alex_Plante That's how I see it as well. For the majority of pre-history - and by definition, I'm guessing, although recent and contemporary non-state societies offer circumstantial evidence - commercial and social activities were not distinguished as such. Obviously, at some point, this general behaviour would become so universal that it could be regulated, and therefore 'economic' rather than primarily social.
That's probably how Viking coins from Labrador ended up in New England.
People are amazing, regardless of the time they lived. Be happy, be safe.
@@
im not
David, what’s wrong homie?
From the first human pair, unto the last man or woman, we are ONE CREATION -- potentially everlasting. And we (you too) have been tasked with the progressive perfection of Mankind.
Never before in our entire history, have so many educated people lived so freely and abundantly. And for 15+ years, we have been connected to THIS shared, worldwide experience with near-instant communication, that we call CZcams. It is GUARANTEED to wake THIS generation up.
I don’t know about this statement. Seem like in the 30 and 40’s in Germany. That those folks weren’t to amazing. Or In Rwanda.
The content wide movement & tech refinement plus the conservation of the resource in that tech The that they had at the time was a really cool aspect of this story
In NZ the Polynesian Maori people also used obsidian. I have a chunk bigger than two fists retrieved from a road cutting in the Lake Taupo region. "Volcanic Glass" is another name for it, and flakes are pretty much as sharp as broken glass.
It is also quite beautiful.
I see genuine marvelling and appreciation from these people, excitement at what’s being suggested by these finds.
Not superiority or arrogance.
People don’t underestimate how advanced their ancestors were, they deny that anyone else’s ancestors were capable of anything special.
Because most people are stupid so they assume everyone is like them.
My Grandfather left me his collection of arrowheads and spear points. I have a large one that was likely for a spear that I believe is obsidian. (Light can be seen through the sharpened edges) I also have a small one (For bird hunting?) I also have a copper spear point. Since Grandpa died in 1962, I can't ask him where they came from. As far as I know, he lived most of his adult life in Michigan.
I know this is an old post. but if you see this comment. Id love to see some pictures of the points your grandfather found.
Wow! You were gifted an incredible treasure!
Grandpa had them wrapped in tissues and stacked in a large "New Era" potato chip can. My late wife and I mounted them on felt, arranged in radial symmetry, and created a nice wall display.@@specialeeffexx
Watch “Draining the Great Lakes”, it shows interesting rock formations in the Great Lakes. All simulation of course, but still intriguing none the less.
Should we be surprised by any of this? Natives of the Americas have built amazing structures and had an impressive knowledge of the stars and other heavenly bodies. I’ve always been interested in Native American cultural norms but my brother had the patience to be the tool finder in our family. I can’t begin to tell you the number of shards and fragments of artifacts he found on our family farm in Ohio. In a bit of sad irony, my father who spent no time and had no interest in artifacts found the best one by simply stepping off his tractor one day. An almost perfectly symmetrical axe head made of extremely tough rock. It had countless cuts from farm implements turning the soil over decades but still very structurally sound. I believe that native man had OCD as it was the most perfectly shaped axe head iv’e ever seen of hundreds between the local Garst Museum and books.
So cool information. Thank you for sharing it with us!
I always wondered why we used to find black obsidian in the sand in the Pinery Provinvial Park. Its right on the shores of Lake Huron. Very strange indeed.
You are absolutely correct my friend ancient people in America did travel long distance for certain items as an amateur Arrowhead Hunter and Arkansas many years ago we found a spear point made with alibates Flint which only comes from one part of the country 900 miles away.
When I was a little kid I found a fist-sized piece of green obsidian on the shore of Lake Michigan about 20 miles south of Milwaukee. It didn't necessarily look as though it had been worked, although... thinking back, one side of it had obviously been broken off. Whether or not that was an intentional break I'll never know but even as an eight year old kid I knew that rock was unusual. I'd never seen anything like it then, or since. I wish I still had it. That was close to 60 years ago.
That is a cool story. I'm from Michigan & although from the middle of the state we use to camp in Ludington every summer. Although I moved to NY State in 1977, I still spend many summers camping in Ludington at the State Park.
@@MaryDougherty-ge3mhLudington is about straight across from Manitowoc isn't it? Nice country over there. I think one of the Lake Michigan ferries used to go there. Cheers!
Check the native legends. Plenty about this area. This is the home of Gitche Manitou (Manitoulin Island), Kitchekewana (Giants Tomb Island), and Nanaboujou (Thunder Bay).
I used to live at Manitou Beach in Southeastern Michigan decades ago.
@@nonamegame9857 ...so what?
What did you learn about the area ? the people? or the history?
@@borntodoit8744 you know what. My great-grandmother was 75% Cherokee Indian. If you are going to troll then I suggest you go back to political news instead of arguing with every comment that is made.
@@nonamegame9857 every white person says they are related to cherokee
@@krotchlickmeugh627 yeah right. I actually have pictures of my great-grandparents 🙄
So glad I found you in my feed. I've heard about this site through various history programs. I've always had this in the back of my mind wondering why no one is looking into this. So, yippee! Sure wish you could get more funding.
There is also an ancient structure similar to Stonehenge in the waters of Lake Michigan. Just off the coast of Traverse City MI. It is believed to be at least 10k years old.
If you look at the great lakes on Google earth, notice how the general outline of the lakes are semi circular? Massive meteorite impact crater, 12,800 BP, centred on Saginaw Bay. And this Stonehenge structure lies off the coast of the deepest part of the whole lake? That would mark the site of the impactor and commemorate the ancestors lost when the world changed. The great lakes are far far younger than anyone would believe (comfortably). On Google earth you can see coastlines on the lake bed, and to the north of the lake rim there are young, unerroded river valleys that filled the lake from the end of the Younger Dryas before they were flooded much like the Black Sea ice age coastal plains, dated to the end of the last ice age... 12800BP.
That monument must have been built in a rather narrow window of time after the impact but before the inundation of the crater bed. Antonio Zamora's work on the ice shrapnel sent as far as Nebraska and South Carolina is well illustrated and very methodical. Highly recommended
@@Kadath_Gaming Couple of points:
Massive meteorite impact craters have certain characteristic signatures, such as shocked quartz. Has any been found near Saginaw Bay?
A crater big enough to encompass the Great Lakes would be an extinction event. As far as I know there is no record of a massive extinction around 12,800 BCE. And 14,000-15,000 years seems too short a time for the crater to have eroded away.
@@Kadath_Gaming No one who saw where a "massive meteorite impact" occurred would have survived the experience to show people where to build a commemorative monument. There is no evidence of the event you describe.
@@jeromemalenfant6622 the extinction of the ice age mega fauna and the Clovis culture would certainly fit the bill... Around 1000 species of North American animals and birds went extinct during this event. Shocked quartz and other extraterrestrial impact proxies have been found spread in a field that stretches to the middle East and black sea area.
@@TheRealLaughingGravy oh but there is. You just are not aware of it. The meteorite impact was at an oblique angle through 2 miles of Ice. It caused the ice sheet to shatter and the shockwave sent baseball stadium sized ice boulders on sub orbital ballistic trajectories creating a fan of material in a circular distribution reaching as far south as South Carolina. The Carolina Bays and Nebraska rain water basins are the remains of these secondary impacts. The ice age megafauna of the Americas and the Clovis culture disappeared. As I said the work of Antonio Zamora is available on CZcams if you would like to look into this further...
Awsome! I found several large pieces of obsidian on the beach in Escanoba, Mi. right along in front of the waterfront park. Interesting I kind of wondered then how that could of gotten there. Still have the pieces be cool to have it checked to find out it's origins.
I found several pieces of Obsidian, guess where i got them?
@@chadsimmons6347 did you find them in Escanoba? 😃
Read another comment that said the glaciers did bring some down out of Canada from an ancient volcano.
Escanoba ( The Home of the Buckless Yooper!) 😁👍
@@patrickingalls5954 Just look on the ground near any major city railroad yard, tons of Obsidian mixed with lots of different rocks & minerals, you never know what you'll find
@@chadsimmons6347 oh yeah, it would be mixed in with the mined coal. The engineers would throw it off the train definitely doesn't burn.
@@chadsimmons6347 speaking of trains. A gentleman in my hometown wrote a book about in his childhood all the neighborhood kids had to walk the tracks and fill buckets with coal that fell off the trains. All they had for heat. He said if the engineers saw them they would kick extra off the sides for them.
Here in the Midwest we have several mound building cultures. The group known as Hopewell had an extensive trade network. Copper from the northern Lake Superior region, obsidian from west of the Rocky Mountains , seashell from the gulf and Michigan. Hopewell mound builders were right about the time of Jesus.
It is a shame no written records like in other parts of the earth.The ancient people who inhabited North America were amazing. So much to learn. I have two sites that I have found Snyder type spear points on close to shore on the bottom of Lake Michigan. Hopewell spears on bottom of Lake Michigan , again much to learn. Amazing.
Incredible! I’ve been to the mounds at Serpent Mound and on private land near Cincinnati on the Ohio river and near Athens Ohio! The Athens one was mind blowing!
Such amazing information 👏. I appreciate it (being from Michigan). And also liked hearing about it. Bless you.
And beautiful turquoise and other gems.
Fascinating great lakes are full of mysteries.
Another area where obsidian was used a lot for cutting, etc.was Mexico and Central America. Depending upon what type of obsidian it is that could also be a source.
They said they sourced it from Oregon.
Obsidian is easy to track as each source has a different chemical composition.
@@stephenlitten1789 all minerals are easy to track...they can tell if the gold you claim to have found on your claim really was pulled from there or not within a few feet of where it came from.
The chemical signature of elements is very different as are the microbes in the soil making identification easy these days
Same with water.
Each pool and pond, river and stream has its own living organism that are same but differ slightly, and no two are exactly the same, making it just as easy to tell where anything came from within a few feet as water is present in small amounts inside rocks and minerals
@@c.a.greene8395 Having done some amount of industrial chemistry (and a small amount of microbial analysis), I think you should replace "easy to track" with "possible to track". Most microbes haven't been gene sequenced, and nor is there a map of their genetic distribution. Same goes for water - unless you have a database of water analyses, the best that can be achieved is "not from around here". Especially if it has been through a metropolitan treatment system.
But for the rarer/commercially interesting stuff, true.
@@stephenlitten1789 as a free miners of many years I have had the survey office return platinum from my claim twice after someone else tried to say it came off their claim.
The office of the bc surveyors says they can determine with an inch of where the minerals came from
I thought this fellow was Sam Elliot at first. Interesting video. Can't wait for more discoveries.
It should have been! 😂
Not even close...
@David Reads Be fair. It was before he spoke. You really want to argue about first visual impressions?
It’s actually his cousin
Yes he's a double for sure. 😮😂😊
The last 10,000 years of what we may refer to as technological human history may only represent 10% or even much less of the total. Reasonably advanced human civilization existed during and before the las ice age.
Sea levels are something like 35-50m lower during the ice age, when coastal areas would be the most habital and most likely places to have settlements, now these former coastal area are hundreds of feet to miles offshore depending on the location.
a bit of a strech of imagination.. often coastal or river areas expand into higher ground and would leave a deep lasting influence that would show advanced civilization
@@paulawynne6420 Who is this mysterious 'they' and why wouldn't 'they' want you to know it?
i remember when i was a kid living in redgranite wisconsin (countryside) in my back yard was a giant wooded area with multiple hunting trails. we didnt even have to go very far into the woods and just some basic surface digging you could find native american arrowheads. it was really cool and i even found an obsidian one as well, in near perfect condition. i miss those days.
So jealous! Here is West MI. I've found a few crude, worn tools. Still looking for those illusive arrowheads. I know they are out there. 😊😊😊
Once you made an obsidian arrow/spear head you would use it until you couldn't use it anymore. Reshaping as needed during the tools life. How many generations was that original piece of obsidian passed down through?
just 1
@@tim9430 Unlikely
"Son, this my prize knife, is now yours."
@@friendlyone2706 The next generation didn't like the obsidian...said it was "so last generation".
@@tim9430 LOL
Obsidian is extremely brittle and the edge doesn’t last long at all. If it was used then it would not have had a long life. Don’t believe me then go make one and use it. You will find out real quick!
Ol Trevor over there cuttin up a rock line talkin bout I was geeked boiiie
He a scientist during the day and a thug at night who knew
Lmao
I currently live 35 miles west of the Wagontire-source where the obsidian originated. Obsidian is all over this area, and relatively confined to this area. Very interesting and glad I clicked on this video. 👍
Was told about this around 5 years ago, good to see its been further researched.
We had extensive confederations and alliances with trade routes clear across the continent. It worked a bit like a relay. If your tribe was allied with the two tribes to west and two to the east, the furthest western tribe would trade those items across the alliance, so the furthest east tribe would've had access to them. Certain tribes were known for certain things, like a material, craft, system, etc. and their expertise made their versions of items more valuable to other tribes. That's why European items like patterned textiles and glass beads were adopted so quickly.
Exchange of good was not always through trade, but very often conquest and enslavement of one group by another.
@@robertcrusader5019 Why do you think me explaining a system requires me to list all the exceptions, when they're entirely irrelevant to the point, and would be extraneous wastes of time? Like you're not wrong, that's true of cultures on every continent throughout time, but why do you think your comment is valuable, necessary, or relevant?
Why aren't you mentioning the shell currency system? Or the gift exchange system? Or any other mechanism of exchange of goods that existed? Is it because you're white and you think bringing up that other cultures engaged in slavery somehow alleviates your fabricated sense of injustice?
I'm not even from a tribe that enslaved people, I'm from tribal confederations, it doesn't even apply to me, so you can save your "look who doesn't like the truth" bullshit because it doesn't impact me - pointing out that my British ancestors engaged in slavery would actually be accurate - I'm just questioning your motivations. And I'm pretty confident I'm correct, to the point that you'd need a really convincing justification for not only popping in with an irrelevant point, but a loaded one, to make me believe that you're not just a butthurt white guy that feels the need to shout, "We're not the only ones who did slavery!" And btw, that is irrelevant to the guilt all people who enslaved others needs to contend with on their own, and as a person who is half colonizer and half colonized, I am entirely aware of that. You should be.
@@jademoon7938 Haha. Your vapid comments are quite typical of the leftist mindset of perpetual victim-hood so common today. I am neither offended by your comments nor your flawed thinking and shallow comprehension of human psychology across the ages that seats you on your self-appointed throne of self-righteousness. Rather, YOU should be offended at what has been fed to you as history by the fools in positions of teaching at wherever you received your indoctrination. You are sadly a marxist and don't even know it. So, God bless you in your journey and i will pray for you.
@@robertcrusader5019 Oh I fully called you for who you are. You just proved it. Congratulations.
Sorry, but your saying it proves nothing. LOL.
How about lake Michigan Stonehenge? Why does nobody talk about that?
Look on Discovery UK
thats right, Matt Donais! Piece together the truth about MIchigan Stonehenge (underwater) with the news about these obsidian flakes and you have better picture that these ancient people were not knuckle-dragging morons.
@@lukeyznaga7627 nobody with sense believes that ancient humans were less intelligent than modern humans. Less technologically advanced, duh, but no less intelligent
@@lukeyznaga7627 I've read recently that Lake Michigan was a copper mine...
This was so kool watching and I only wish that it was way longer.Thanks Liked n' Subscribed
Nice. Great finds!! Keep going and don't let mainstream get in the way. Thank you
My daughter found a obsidian Arrowhead just a couple inches below the ground in kalkaska Michigan only about a inch long
So, why weren’t they considering the west coast connection until now? An arrowhead is more telling than a few chip of obsidian.
It's typical of the bofins. If it doesn't suit their theory's it's hidden from sight and placed in the to hard box. It's not in the least way professional and the Smithsonian is on of the worse for this. It all has to do with evolution. It's called a theory but to those who use it, it is fact even though there are so may gaps in it that it would need spray cement to stop up all the gaps.
I found a " scraper" in west central NH, in a valley off of the Connecticut river. I called a number of people, State archeology and the Archeology dept at a local university. Very shocked at their response, they were SUSPICIOUS of me! As if I want something. I said I was interested in ancient history, they pretty much said, dont be. Leave that to us, stop looking around for sites and artifacts. Jaw drop. Wasnt expecting that. My scraper still sits on a shelf, havent been able to bring it to any scholars. They said, "let's have you come in and we will look at it, but the COVID guidelines are more important". Never heard back at all. Maybe it's nothing, but it looks just like the example shown at the begining of this video. And I sent the experts photo's, they said "yes, looks like an ancient scraper". Why the burn? Screw it. I do believe that there are people with a desire and agenda to keep the past inside of their narrative.
@@kevinklingner3098 What gaps?
Stuff just keeps getting older
Wow!
Fantastic! Awesome evidence - so much info to be had from it all...!
Great video!
This is so wicked! I love this kind of information about peoples of the past. Thanks so much for sharing.
The words, As far as we know
Should be in front of everything scientist claim they know.
As far as I know, you just made the best comment out of 678, so far.
@@lanceleavitt7472 Bravo!!!
Indeed. That's how science works, and scientifically trained people know that it's implied. But if journalists did put it there, the editors would take it out!
Don't confused scientists with media and science reporting. Much of the misunderstanding about science comes from bad reporting.
Scientists come up with some pretty imaginative thoughts surrounding tiny factoids.
This is awesome. Born and raised in Oregon. I have a collection of Oregon obsidian I've collected from rock hunts. Amazing it was able to be traced to correlation with Oregon obsidian. I'm facinated to learn more about what else you will discover there.
I worked an archaeological chert mine in central Montana. There were trade shells from the west coast. There was a bunch of other trade goods from out east. (All of it was in the form of backfilled trash after the mine played out.)
I worked on a project at Redstone Arsenal, Huntsville, Al where they were mining St. Louis chert, making pre-forms (blanks) and trading them along the Tennessee River and some areas of the Mississippi River. These cultures were very industrious. I'm retired now, but I miss my days as an archaeologist!
I've been to the Wagon Tire source and it is quite close to a number of paleoindian sites.
Well they need to be going to St. John’s in Florida and Saint Pete’s they’ve been finding arrowheads washing up on the beach down there!!
Lake Thonotosassa too. I have buckets full of them. Donated most of them. But it's so common the museums have tons of them.👍
Are there any sites on the st. Johns in Volusia?
@@danoakley6538 They’re finding them where you do your dolphin tours and where the sandbars are low
It's freaking astounding that humans evolved into modern man at all. So many millions of circumstances had to happen, just so, or we would've been yeeted out of history
We came close on more than one occasion!
@@patrickingalls5954 quite close, indeed. Intelligent enough to build nuclear bombs, dumb enough to almost accidentally wipe ourselves from existence
16 million years of evolution and we have present day as a product. Pretty pathetic imo
Every single one of your ancestors had to do what they did for you to happen yet it still did.
Amazing the clarity of the water. Especially at that depth!
You must not have been to northern Michigan all water is clear like glass and there's many places you can drink the water and it's better than any bottled water you'll ever have and cleaner
Happy you're published. Keep going!
BTW..there are amazing stories of pets who have traveled hundreds of miles to find or return to their human owner or friend.
So, animals can also travel, at times, with a goal in mind.
Maybe we aren't as different as we like to think.
Very cool initiative!👍🏼 GL and HH from Canada 🙏🏼🍀👋🏼🇨🇦
Surprisingly common actually. I’ve found many similar advanced tools in the same area diving.
Ty for not discounting the ancient humans.
Are they saying they are surprised that people living on a continent were common on that continent along with their tools? Why would that not be assumed if you knew that humans were there in that time period? Fascinating!
yeah that is the real mystery. How these idiots think they are so smart.
Half of the battle is to overcome our arrogance.
No, they literally went there looking for those tools. The kinds they found were different then expected, that is what is surprising. Did you even watch it?
So the nomadic hunter gatherers obtained really useful tools from an area some of their people would have been through on their hunts.
This is amazing.
Thats amazing! Ive made that trip several times and it's a looong trip with modern transport. I can hardly imagine doing that trip 9000 years ago.
Not likely they travelled to Oregon and back. More likely it changed hands along the trade route several times before arriving in Michigan. Mackinac Island was an important trading centre for pre-contact lndigenous peoples.
Have you done any underwater metal detecting to look for copper artifacts
Maybe you'll find this interesting. A few weeks ago I went to a museum on the site of a copper mine in the SE US. They had on loan a piece of a copper headdress from people in the Great Lakes region. If I remember correctly, it was a feather. Unfortunately, I'm drawing a blank about the estimated age of the artefact and who loaned it to the museum.
Hunter gatherers don't bother with heavy metal stuff when they got obsidian at their disposal. Even the aztecs didnt care much about smithing besides decorative stuff. Its highly unlikely they will find worked metal
Yep. Good question! Copper from Isle Royale in Lake Superior has many ancient copper mines, and the first stuff was just found projecting out of the ground. 🤔😏
Makes you wonder when the first mines were dug! 5,500 years ago isn't so far from 8,500 years back!
@@karlharvymarx2650 was that in Ducktown TN?
@@ckkjgc Yes it was. Have you been? For a small museum, I thought it was excellent. The ladies who run it are very knowledgeable about copper mining, much of it from first hand experiences growing up there.
Interesting. The obsidian getting there doesn't particularly surprise me but kind of neat that it did. The explanation (or justification) for why no large points have been found and that there was a miniaturised tool assemblage is given no plausible rationale. Maybe Scientic American has a more in-depth print version that makes more sense.
Perhaps for carving and engraving jewelry, ornamentations or tattooing/scarrifying?
Obsidian breaks so the points get smaller and smaller.
I'd guess big chunks of volcanic glass are heavy and so a pain to transport. So the "price" would rise with distance from the source. If so, it would make sense to be frugal with something so expensive and superior to local rock. Perhaps they bought spearheads but when they broke, they found ways to make efficient use of the fragments instead of just abandoning them for archeologists to find later as they might with common stones. I'm not an archeologist or otherwise qualified to make guesses better than the next guy.
@@karlharvymarx2650 let us not forget red chur. Shipped by canoe From Ohio to mich on the Kalamazoo river trade route
Traded as money the chunks were used when the local grey and white ran out. So obsidian could have been the first money 12 thousand years age
@@stev838 women and children were the first money.
Amazing discovery. Great work.
It's so surreal...at depths of 100 feet...finding an ancient tool making site
...which materials came from clear across the continent
...where more than a decade ago I saw Oregon public station discussed such materials were long ago gathered...
Growing up in nearby Warren, MI in the 60s we used to find all kinds of volcanic rock where we played baseball in a field. I don't know if it was dumped there or not. Now it's all paved over and a parking lot. The pumice rocks were so light they floated.
I think alot of the factories back in the late 1800s early 1900 used to burn hard coke coal sometimes it looks like pumice when not totally burned. Of course pumice would be a useful commodity to the native folk too.
Yes I grew up in Royal Oak and had cousins in Warren. They used to find all kinds of interesting stuff.
I found natural black glass native obsidian at a construction site that was dug out of the ground in Warren when I was a kid. The volcanic activity in Michigan was ancient but did indeed occur.
Obviously by the shape of the obsidian the person using it was about 5.7”, male, left handed and walked with a slight limp.
LOL
Limp? Right or left leg?
Was a Capricorn and had bad breath
Jeff Pollard: Yes. Definitely the right or left leg.
Very cool! Great find!
Thanks so much for sharing!
Our brains are as big now as they were then......my question would be, why WOULDN'T they be making complex tools? The same goes for "cavemen" and Neanderthals and even further back. I always wonder why people assume that way back then (further back than these peoples) that there was no oral communication. How do you know? Any group needs to be able to communicate in order to function, whether it's a small family unit or a larger community.
becasue #Racisim
Culture/knowledge does not appear ex-nihilo as a big brain is developed, it has to be created, learned, and gradually build-up over generations. That includes language itself, and its absence does not preclude hominid groups from functioning in other living or extinct species. Different peoples today have the same brain size, but their technological development simply is not the same, just as the past technological development of the most technologically advanced societies wasn't the same it is today from the start.
Fun fact: The size of the brain actually doesn't dictate how smart someone is. Wrinkles are a better determination of brain function.
Evidence shows brains got a little smaller as well. Big brains use up a lot of energy. Our prosthetic brains aka stored knowledge are to blame. We dont have to read nature as much as hunter gathers had to.
We even traded our copper for gold when the aztecs sailed up the mississippi from the gulf of mexico.
I live on Manitoulin some great dive spots out here.Thanks for the video
Very interesting. Thank you!
My guess is that the obsidian came from the eruption of Mt. Mazama now known as Crater Lake which was quite huge. The ash fallout covered Northern California, Eastern Oregon, Eastern Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming plus points east. Having lived that area, there are still numerous finds if obsidian. In fact, there was ONLY ONE Indian war in all of California & the tribes there, Modoc & Klamath made their spear & arrow heads from the obsidian
Obsidian occurs from a slow flow of lava not an explosive eruption though. Central Oregon has it everywhere. The Newberry caldera is the most likely source.
not much of a mystery for me, people have been around for atleast 100,000 years and before that there was different species of people
Continental trade though
Humans have been around for a couple million years
On a hunting trip to palo duro canyon in about 1986, we stopped at a house that a old man lived at . He had 2 Clovis axe heads one was a doorstop. He had an effigy on a flat rock with rounded edges that matches a face on a temple in Mexico city. Palo duro canyon has flint which was probably the reason for trade
With overlapping trade routes, those implements, or simply the raw material to make them, could have taken a few years or several decades to get to this area. Fascinating.
Just imagine what we might know if there hasn't been decades of propaganda downplaying the significance of these cultures and civilizations. I've been looking into the Old Copper Culture and the Middle Mississippian Culture a lot lately. The mound builders, and how big some of their cities were like Cahokia. It's amazing (and sad) how little we know. We're decades behind how much we know about Central and South American civilizations. Looking forward to more cool stuff like this coming out about the folks who lived here thousands of years ago. Gotta feeling a lot of surprises are headed our way. If you ever get a chance, go checkout Cahokia. We went for a school field trip when I was a kid. Pretty awesome.
What propaganda has been downplaying these ancient cultures? We have known for a long time that people have lived on and traveled around this continent for thousands of years.
The main issue might be that so much of what they made was of organic material that does not last. So when you find durable items; you then have something to study.
Just imagine what we might know, if glaciers had not scraped the landscape clean.
Imagine how much history was erased by destroying indigenous language and culture.There should be an outcry from the scientific community.
@@that_thing_I_do Don't worry, I'm sure a new history is already being written for us by someone.
@@richardthompson5436 Those that win the wars , write the history books?
I'm always amazed at how much credit modern man gives himself and how litte credit to just about everything else (including other animals and even plants) - of course they had trade routes!
That's not at all self-evident, and perhaps may not even be the case. It's like saying that we can "predict" that Patagonians had a trade route exporting stuff up to the Aztecs, "of course they had," out of nothing. Maybe they had a network of trade routes, maybe some cultural artifacts traveled through generations in a mix of inheritance, trade, theft/looting, in a way that wouldn't characterize a "trade route" in any way that's very noteworthy as such.
@@petitio_principii well objects pass through the hands of many tribal people through trade. eurasian metal passed into the hands of native alaskans
@@petitio_principii I appreciate your skepticism, but the French and later British fur trade in the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence River valley from the early 1600's onwards was facilitated by well-established Indigenous trade routes that stretched to the Mississippi and beyond. Canoes were used to get around North America's lakes and river systems long before the Europeans arrived.
Fascinating ! A long time ago, there were people who were inventive, creative, intelligent. The past reveals so many interesting amazing things!
Must be exciting for you researchers to make those discoveries!!
Professor Brian Cox reckons that if you could take an early Homo Sapiens from the Olduvai Gorge, transport him to our day and give the benefit of modern education you could (assuming you'd got the right one) make him an astronaut. They were no less creative, intelligent or inventive than we are - they just had slightly less knowledge of the resources available to them.
Very interesting. Thanks.
Interesting. I sometimes wonder however if there are natural ways that fragments of stone can appear to have been altered into tools but were in fact naturally made by geological process. I also sometime wonder if the excitement of the researchers and their desire to find artifacts might lead to misidentification - wishful thinking. Obsidian is a volcanic glass which fractures easily forming sharp edges.. a natural phenomenon that can be exploited by early humans. While these researchers can identify the origin of the obsidian they can not be totally sure how it apparently travelled 4000 miles to be where they found it. The small size of the apparent "tools" either suggests that the users were very skilled ... crafts? and/or surgery? or were very small people with very small hands. Much remains to be uncovered.
Natural stone items that look culturally modified are called geofacts. Stone that's been technologically manipulated exhibits characteristic marks including striking platforms and flake marks. We have precise measurements of flake angles and other details from known artifacts the reularity of which doesn't occur naturally. Microlith technology used for composite tools is very well understood, occurring in both North America (Post Classic central Mexico) and Europe (Upper Paleolithic) for example. In fact, various complex microblade technologies have been found throughout Europe, the Near East, northeast Asia, and northwestern North America over the past 30,000 or more years. It's unlikely that the obsidian items have been misidentified.
In any event, n matter how one looks at the obsidian 'things' they were found waaay out of their natural context. Obsidian from Wagontire, OR found its way to Lake Huron...in some fashion. In theory that could have ocurred any time since the discovery location was inundated (dropped in the water) but it's reasonable to assume that it happened when the ground was above water given its discovery adjacent several archaeological features. The obsidian could have bee. carried east from the point of origin to discovery location. That's certainly possible because long distant trading 9,000 years ago has never been documented. No doubt, this obsidian is artifactual. Human culture in the Americas from this time depth is very poorly understood and I'd argue that we need to keep an open mind.
But it seemed the obsidian travelled west to east instead of along a north/ south path that I think the movements of glaciers would have took it. Of course I am no scientist and I could definitely be wrong about how exactly glaciers work.
Of course there could be natural processes that might alter rocks to look like tools. Don't you think archaeologists know that? Part of their research is to determine what is natural and what is human made.
I can usually tell the difference between natural fragmentation and Cultural. All good Field Archaeologists can after several years experience. Cultural frags, almost always include a bulb of percussion, along with a platform. And with bi-faces, there is no doubt. Natural fragmentation (Nat-frags) almost never result in bi-facial fragmentation--and if they do they're pretty easy to spot by an experienced field archaeologist.
Any flint napper can easily tell the difference between human made flakes and naturally flaked stone. If you made flint points for a couple days you would understand.
Archaeologists and Historians really need to have a rethink of our historical timeline.🤔
Look at the websites regarding Creation research. Very intriguing.
wow thank you for your work.
Brilliant work from brilliant people. Very, very interesting.
Yeah it's a small piece of obsidian, try being under water for 9k yrs, water will whittle it down.
Also, it's certainly not strange to find a some of obsidian so far from its source. GLACIERS they move things...
Water must be moving to "whittle" things down. Also, the glaciers moved things from north to south. Not west to east.
@@mikebetts2046 With glaciers, water is constantly moving, and those lake beds wouldn't have been isolated 4-9k yrs ago.
Also the glacier in Q, moved from south east to north west, and the water dissipate, would have moved east/south along the newly formed rivers.
@@marcusbrown3880 "... those lake beds wouldn't have been isolated..." Not sure what you mean by "isolated". Are you suggesting water carried these flints from out west to Lake Huron?
I know of no glaciers across North America that moved from S.E. to N.W. And if rivers flowed from east to south, it would not have carried material from the Pacific North West to the Great Lakes.
i surprised how clear the water is
That's probably because of the zebra mussels.
@@Thatguy-of5re Obviously still a major issue.
I've never seen dirty water and regularly drink from streams I have take that back I have seen dirty water on TV
All the Great Lakes have very clear water the farther and deeper u get from shore, just less turbulence and algae in the depths. Zebra Mussels have made the water clear in a lot of areas, but happy to see Freshwater Drum population has exploded eating them and has brought back the stained fertile water in Green Bay. Walleye, Whitefish, Smallmouth size and numbers have boomed eating the Round Goby and now the Yellow Perch have made a huge rebound eating the other form of Bloody Red freshwater shrimp that has become invasive as well. It took a few generations of fish to adapt to eating new food sources but nature seems to be responding greatly to the invasive issues.
So much to be discovered - this is amazing.
Excellent video!
I grew up on the shores of Lake Huron, I would love to be able to dive there.