The other problem with dividing tribes by race wasn't really shown. Casting picked all African American people who lived in urban areas, which became a big problem for their tribe in a game that required wilderness skills. This is a big part of why they struggled so much in the first 2 episodes, and why it took forever for them to make fire with flint. From what I've read in interviews apparently they only managed to make fire with flint AFTER the second immunity challenge (i.e. several days after getting flint). Some of the other tribes by contrast had people who were wilderness survival experts to carry them in the first 2 episodes.
And on top of that, they were clearly physically weaker than the other three tribes as well. Unfortunately just not a very well balanced tribe all around
You’re also stereotyping the aa cast members all coming from urban areas when I’m pretty sure a lot of other people came from big cities due to casting
I'm surprised we have not seen a geographical based division season yet. Easy to do, not at all problematic, and gives the show a chance to have contestants from states (provinces?) that are less represented.
It would be kind of fun to see something like, West vs. East. Then again I'm from the Pacific Northwest, so I think I maybe a little biased wanted to see something like that
Even though I prefer a 2 tribe pre-merge, I think a slightly larger cast and begin with Northeast, Southeast, Northwest, and Southwest. I think I casting would have to be cognizant not to play into each area's stereotype, though. I think the dynamics would be really interesting.
I'd be interested to see brains v brawn v beauty re-interpreted and cast as body-mind-soul. You still have a physically gifted tribe and a brainiac tribe, and instead of the third being a shallow and uncomfortable designation, you have a tribe who bring high emotional intelligence or focus on interpersonal relationships instead of strategy or strength.
To be fair, they kind of did do that in regards to casting Tai & Brice - I think they were picked more in regards to some kind of "inner beauty" than how they physically use appearance as parts of their job? I think they should keep the branding of BBB, because that's a lot more marketable, but try to cast more people in the same vein as those two. Some kind of a mix would be nice to see.
It would feel strange to have a tribe designated as “soul”. Would that imply other tribes don’t have a soul? And what does soul mean? They meditate or do holistic new age stuff? It would confuse the players and the audience
I feel like Blood vs Water deserved its own entry here (both for BvW and SJDS). While the tribe divide itself is semi-random it's clearly a theme based on the tribe division and we have plenty of room to talk about both the good and bad that originate from it.
Yeah I was a little sad he didn't mention San Juan Del Sur as it's arguably a much better season than BvW. The original BvW was already really compelling as we got to see players we knew and loved alongside their loved ones (some of which, like Laura B, had already appeared in loved one visits which is a really nice touch), but SJDS is equally compelling because we get immediate insights into all of the players via their loved ones. Plus it has the incredibly satisfying storytelling of Nadiya being the first boot and Natalie winning it all.
Gamechangers should’ve been Champs Vs Contenders. Half the cast were legends (Sandra, Tony, Ozzy, Cirie) and half were players that had never quite shined (Sarah, Caleb, Sierra, Zeke)
supposedly it was originally that before natalie a dropped out last minute due to a concussion and was replaced by sierra, throwing the numbers out of wack
@@uglyaniimals i dont but that. Thats like saying "well we can't find another Legend so, guess we gutta go with Sierra, and change the theme to something that makes no sense".. Other guy "wait whose Sierra? The one who voted out her mom?"
@@BigPapiMatt i'm pretty sure it was sierra bc she dropped out last minute and she was the best they could find on such short notice ?? obv i don't know that for sure but personally i buy it bc there's literally no other reason for them to bring back sierra otherwise
I still contend that Sugar belongs on Heroes Sugar in Gabon was one of the few contestants in Survivor history who was actively trying to produce a winner that would satisfy her instead of trying to win no matter what. Even if that’s not in the traditional spirit of what Survivor is about, it definitely embodies the spirit of being a “Hero” Colby got put on Heroes because he took Tina to Final 2 instead of Keith, and that’s it. Sugar did basically the same thing, but she was doing it since the pre-merge. If there is 1 person on that tribe that best represents what it means to be a Hero, it’s easily Sugar
Villains Russell - known too backstab anyone Rob - known to form a cult to get farther Randy - known to not like anyone Coach - known to act weird ? Tyson- known too be mean to everyone Sandra - known to not take any BS Danielle - known to be mean spirited Courtney - known to make fun of people Jerry - known to prey on men Parvati - known to use men Heroes JT - known as a nice southern boy James - ? Tom - known to be a stand up guy Colby - known to be a fan favourite Rupert - ? Candice - ? Amanda - ? Cerie - ? Sugar - ? Stephen -? The heroes have more players with question marks then the villains tribe lots of heroes acted like villains in their previous seasons and coach I don’t think is a villain in his original season he just acted weird not really a villain
@@ryans413 Coach - Profoundly hypocritical and compulsive liar Rupert - same as Colby except even more popular (also both he and Colby were shown in such a way so as to emphasize their good qualities James - Same as Colby and Rupert Amanda - Partnered twice with more villainous people and so was portrayed as more heroic by contrast (it's BS but I think it's actually a thing) Cirie - The everywoman who got off the couch and arguably best audience surrogate in the show's history. Sugar - Kyle mentioned her justification Steph - The lone survivor from the trainwreck Ulong tribe who never gave up no matter what. To pre-empt any counter argument: I know there are also villainous sides to pretty much everyone on the heroes tribe (survivor doesn't actually have heroes (though some players (including Tom and Rupert) could be argued to be such in their jobs), the game isn't built that way) but the casting was based upon their portrayal and perception.
@@aidanmillow566 yea but Rupert freaked out on FairPlay remember more villain like and he’s stubborn even got into it with Russell that season. James is more of a bully to people he don’t like we saw that on previous seasons and he didn’t like Stephanie. Speaking of Stephanie she was rude to most her tribe mates the previous two times she played before heroes and villains. Sugar as much as people want to justify it is a villain. I’ll give you Amanda and Coach I guess but just go back and watch some these players early seasons everyone’s pretty much a villain and I guess the show arrange the cast too be who fans thought they were. I guess it’s hard too find actually heroes but I feel most the heroes so called were out there for fan service like people that could been there instead be like Bob winner of Gabon Natalie winner of Samoa Earl winner of Fiji Todd winner of China Yul winner of Cook Islands. Good example of good people true heroes
Love this video!! The only thing I’ll say is that I’m pretty sure Ami identifies as bisexual - the media mischaracterized her as a lesbian at the time because bisexuality wasn’t as well-known of a concept as it is today. Thank you for looking into this :)
Seeing your ranking I just realized that 2 out of the 3 finalists in "Winners at War" came from a "Brains vs Brawn vs Beauty" season. In fact, 3 out of the final 4. Good tribal division theme indeed.
I feel like One World could have been an interesting theme if it weren’t for that cast and the male and female divisions. If it was divided randomly it would be interesting to see how they deal with cross tribal relationships.
they didn't want to give the viewing audience enough credit, they thought we wouldn't understand two tribes on the same beach if it wasn't for an obvious division like men and women. To be honest given the combined intelligence of the actual one world cast I don't know if they'd be able to keep track of who was on which tribe if it wasn't men v women.
I agree, I wish they would give the one world theme another shot! Just put everyone in really obviously colour-divided clothes. Or do the male/female thing again. I think the possibility for interesting dynamics is high. As noted in the video, Amazon and Vanuatu have the same theme but turned out very different. No reason that season should kill its theme
You're absolutely right about #2 (the occupational division). Everyone has said it could have been a better season had they cast likeable players, and I agree. I really thought Will Sims would be the comic relief throughout the whole season but he was just the opposite after those remarks to Shirin. I do think it was coincidence that all 3 collars were the Top 3
The gender divide was really awkward in Amazon where everybody was shallowly horny and sexist, byt Vanuatu is literally next on my rewatch and your characterization of how it's handled there makes me a lot more excited than I would have been otherwise.
Rumor has it Fiji was supposed to be divided by race just like the cooks, but someone dropped out last minute so production scrapped the idea and just made two tribes.
“I never read that [the story of David v Goliath” you and onceuponanisland are my two favorite survivor channels and I relate with your perspective there so much more. Just nice to know not every Survivor fan is a Christian, considering how often it comes up for the cast.
Well America is a pretty religious country overall. So if you randomly cast 16-20 people, at least a handful will be religious. It would be statistically strange if you find 20 Americans and they’re all atheists
@@freddytang2128 fair, but there definitely wasn’t a highlight to anyone else’s religion the way Christians would be highlighted. Ethan is never like “I’m excited to maybe be the first Jewish winner”, we find out through Big Tom’s antics. The at least 5% of atheists that have been on the show have rarely spoken about it. If there ever was a Wiccan or other non-Abrahamic religion on it would probably be mocked. I don’t know if we’ve ever had a Sikh or Buddhist or otherwise winner or contestant, and Omar is the first Muslim contestant they’ve acknowledged or let speak about it for more than one instance as far as I know. And for modern survivor, I feel like the likelihood of finding 20 atheists has definitely increased.
@@OhSkyeLanta I don't remember religion being brought up much outside of like South Pacific. I do remember season 1, someone (forgot who brought a Bible) and I believe Rudy even mocked them for it. I also remember Roxy from season 25, but I don't hear religion being brought up a lot. I mean it is good though to see different perspectives so I don't see the issue.
"Blue Collars value hard work, White Collars value leadership and delegation and the No Collars value.... Being Naked? "😂😂😂 With Hali running it made my day
while splitting by race is worse (obvs), I've always had a bone to pick with heroes, healers, and hnstlers. It was such a dumb division that they just thought of the first three words that started with H and built a season backward from there. Why they couldn't just do a season with people on tribes when they literally did that a season later will always boggle my mind. It's a time like this I'm happy the theme era of the show has ended.
I was watching some of your older videos and there was a comment about if you could make a history/timeline of chickens on survivor? Just a little joke video about anything remotely related to chickens in survivor, from Tai's chicken Mark who made it all the way to Chicken from Survivor China.
The one problem I have with the Brawn Brain Beauty theme is that in every iteration, the Brain tribe will always be at a disadvantage, simply by comparing the message each tribe sends. Brawn: We're stronger that you. Alright, usually pretty obvious, and can simply be confirmed or refuted in the challenges. Beauty. We're prettier that you. Um... okay. Who cares? Brain: We're smarter than you. In Survivor, a game of wits and strategy at the end of the day, NOTHING triggers other players more and makes them WANT to prove them wrong than the implication that someone is smarter than them. That's why Brain Tribes will always have a steeper hill to climb in Survivor than the Beauties who get to be easily underestimated.
Australian Survivor did Brains V Brawn 2 years ago, and while I would not rate it as a good season, the split, in theory was really good. It almost played out very David Vs Goliath-y
@@aidanmillow566 I'm not disagreeing that social capital is what is most important in the game, and it is something the Beauties likely are the most proficient at of the three teams, but I feel like most people don't want to believe that, and assume the game is about wits and strategic intelect.
Except the guy that won that season was a brawn not a brain. Why I love that season you think because of the stereotypes a brain being smart world win but didn’t
Interesting I always thought a celebrity vs legends vs fans be a good one too try bring in some new players some celebrities dosnt have to be like movie stars could be anyone well known for music or tv or script writer or anyone well known in Hollywood and then have some survivor legends that have played the game before. Now that be a good mix of people
The thing I like most about MvGX is speculating on how well I would have been able to do if I was cast on the season, and that's actually difficult to do because I don't know which tribe I would have been on. Technically I'm a millennial but my upbringing and lifestyle over the years makes me more like Gen X. As far as my age relative to the actual cast, I am in the middle. Everyone on the millennial tribe is younger than me. Everyone on the gen X tribe is older than me.
Mari did talk about that in post-show interviews since she was the only person on the millenials not in their twenties while with Ken there were other people in their thirties on the Gen X tribe.
I'd like to see heroes vs villains vs champions. Have tribe full of heros and tribe full of villains who have never won than tribe full of winners who won thire seasons as mix. The champions would have big target on thire back coming in Another could be strength vs puzzle vs social. Contest that dominated in physical challenges ones great at puzzles and ones who played strong social game
Heroes vs. Villains is a good concept, but I don't really understand the Gabon picks for the season Sugar wasn't exactly a hero in her season, she made it to the end thanks to Bob but being unlikable and Randy doesn't feel like a villain I feel his main trait is being grumpy.
“She made it to the end thanks to Bob”. Did you watch Gabon cause it was literally the other way around. Sugar was in the majority for most of the game and she saved Bob at the final 4.
10. Cook Islands should've just done a schoolyard pick - i'm sure the tribes would've been MOSTLY race divided anyway (since it would be based on first impressions only, and people have their biases) but with a bit more variety per tribe / none of the cringey optics / they could've kept the smaller tribes LONGER and not needed to swap on ep 3. 9. I think s35 should've just been a regular season with regular tribe names, if they had kept the season exactly the same BUT ditched the 'theme" the whole season becomes less cringey. 8. I definitely agree that Fans Vs Favorites (assuming it's ACTUALLY superfans) is a cool idea in theory but absolutely sucks in practice because of how unfair it is, similar to how TAR31 saw the TAR veteran teams DECIMATE the Big Brother and Survivor teams in the most predictable fashion possible. Micronesia's Natalie, Erik, and Alexis all could've been the breakout stars of their season on a cast of newbies but sadly get outshined by the favorites tribe and way underedited. The only "return" of this format i'd ever wanna see is maybe Fans Vs First Boots and even then i'm almost positive a First Boot returnee would win the season. (But at least it would shut up the "I WANT A FIRST BOOT SEASON" people on Reddit and Facebook) 7. Agree that the s12 divide sucks, and much like any other season that swaps within the second or third or fourth episodes, swaps MUCH too early. I think, rather than "older" and "younger" though a good idea for a returnee season could be "oldschool" vs "newschool" though. WAW, for example, could've been "Oldschool men", "oldschool women", "newschool men" and "newschool women" and it would've been my era of the show played RATHER than actual age making it a lot more balanced and probably would've led to a FAR more exciting WAW than the boring nonsense and terrible boot order we actually got that season. (or hell, a "oldschool vs newschool" season in general without the gender divide would've been fine too!) 6. I lowkey love dividing casts by gender (although I suppose it's basically impossible to do this now that Survivor is casting trans and nonbinary players?) and as although as the creepy guys in The Amazon are, I think both s6 and s9 are great! We don't talk about One World, but I do think Kim Spradlin unintentionally plays a VERY similar style game to Ami - and both are huge utilizers of lovebombing as a manipulation tactic which is so criminally underutilized (or misused?) by players generally. 5. I hate age divides, HOWEVER I much prefer seasons with age diversity - too many seasons tokenize middle and older age contestants to the point where they obviously will never stand a shot. (Similar to how seasons with only one POC won't stand a chance against 17 white players) 4. DvG - great season, great theme but I don't ever want them to revisit it! 3. HvV - Ditto with the above. 2. Divisions by job or class - Yeah this is a fine idea in spirit, although I think they could've also done a "pinkcollar" tribe aka nurses, teachers, care professionals, etc. which would've provided an alternative likeable tribe in case the blue collars or no collars both turn out to be disasters. haha 1. BBB. Hard facts, such a great theme - I wish they would revisit this theme more times tbh. Also, I love Blood Vs Water as a theme, and want them to revisit it more!
The whole “racial tribes” was used because the production kept being accused of not being “racial diverse” and I find it’s funny how when they actually addressed that, it backfired xD
Wish they would do a BvW with only identical twins siblings and like each pair of twins is on a different tribe. So 2 tribes where everyone has someone identical on the other tribe. Would be epic.
The great thing about brains vs brawn vs beauty is that it kinda overlaps with the "three pillars of play" they've been leaning into as of late of strategy vs challenge threats vs the social game. It was also really cool that they had different people showing different aspects of each attribute. Like they had plenty of people on the brains tribes who thought analytically and often worked in STEM, but they also would often have one of two people who were more creative than traditionally smart. Same with brawn where they'd have different types of athleticism, and beauty where you had very conventionally attractive people but also people with a lot of inner beauty who people can't help but like for their kindness. Worse casting could've left us with three fairly one dimensional tribes but instead we got a more rounded look at the central theme.
my favorite moment from the first BvBvB (other than the entire brain tribe's implosion, specifically voting Garret out after J'Tia dumped out the rice) was when Sarah beat J'Tia and the Beauty contestant in a rather difficult puzzle, and she jokingly yelled out, "Jeff, I think I'm on the wrong tribe!"
Could you just imagine being in the race divided season if they didn't have an early swap and they could form stronger alliances? I would absolutely hate to be in a situation that would encourage thinking stuff like "We need to ensure the asians don't keep their numbers lead."
I think in Aitu’s tribal where they voted out Flicka, one of the considerations was “all five Caucasians are still here, let’s vote one of them out or they’ll be too overpowered”
Season 20 by far the best dam season ever there’s others that come very close but my god is it ever good so many story bests so many good tribals so many jaw dropping moments. The Tyson boot by far best tribal ever the JT letter the stupidest thing ever more stupid then Erick giving up his immunity. The battle of Rob and Russell and Russell coming out ontop too continue his dominance. Sandra winning twice first player too doo that. Parvati playing two idols Stephanie dislocating her shoulder day one. I can keep going the season was jam packed with great moments
For me Men vs Women is not a bad tribe division, you just need the right type of cast just like Vanuatu and don't have Colten, Alicia and Roger of the worlds
18:39 That's not bad thing. We never seen player with ego reaching about same height like Burj Khalifa since Russell Hantz until Morgan came to Cagayan
The only reason I don’t find David vs Goliath to be a top tier theme is because if a Goliath won I think the season would have been seen as not as good and the show almost wants you to root against all the Goliaths
another thing about brain brawn beauty is that beauty isn't an inherent trait that helps you win the game. you can say all you want about pretty privledge but no one has ever won survivor on the bases of looks. Parvati used her beauty as a way to win allies but she was also smart AND strong. brain and brawn are much more limited. of course you can have strong and smart, but the casting is way more limited for those tribes. ex: Michelle, beautiful obvi but won the game not using that trait
Repeating what I said elsewhere that probably actually better applies here: Survivor is at its most basic a popularity contest: right up beauty's ally.
@@aidanmillow566 yeah I agree with that. all I'm saying here is that being beautiful isnt an exclusive trait such as being smart or being strong. obviously you can be both but you're more likely to have (especially w survivor casting) strong and dumb or smart and weak, being beautiful doesn't inherently exclude those other traits.
Aw yes, the old themed tribal divisions, the things that gave each season their own identity...for about two or three episodes before they do a tribe swap, thus making the original theme utterly pointless. Maybe this is why the seasons' names are just numbers.
Here are my ranking of the theme's based on a combination of potential and how they played out I'm including blood vs. water since it is listed as a theme on survivor wiki but not Panama since it's to irrelevant. 10.Race 9.Collars 8.newbie's vs. returning players 7.Heroes vs. healers vs. hustlers 6.age 5.david vs. goliath 4.heroes vs. villain's 3.Brain vs. brawn vs. beauty 2.gender 1.blood vs. water
MvGX was such a great season but the constant discussion of the "generational gap" is so fucking annoying. There's so much "even though I'm a millennial, I'll work hard", etc. and it's unbearable.
The first one came to my mind is Gen X vs Millennials. What a stupid theme. Jeff had to put words into contestants month to justify the difference between 2 generations
I have to say that the younger tribes had physical advantages and won early on. They say this was not the case in Nicaragua but older people are less sharper than younger ones especially then. Tbh, had there been no age division, Chase Rice would have left much earlier. Holly and Jane got screwed by having less numbers early on. David got screwed as well. Ken maybe doesn't end up in that situation.
my rankings based purely on the potential of the themes and not how they played out worst to best FVF YOUNG VS OLD YOUNG OLD GENDER hhh outcasts gender dvg collars mvgx bvw bbb race hvv
Flip-flop 10th and 9th and your list is perfect. Heroes' vs Healers vs Hustlers is the worst theme ever. When they said Heroes'' first for their next season I got excited it was going to be another Heroes' vs Villains but when they also said vs Healers vs Hustlers not only it was a letdown but a horrible theme too. Now I know how the Knicks fans felt when they didn't get the draft pick to get Zion Williamson and this theme was a year before Zion committed to play college basketball at Duke.
The other problem with dividing tribes by race wasn't really shown. Casting picked all African American people who lived in urban areas, which became a big problem for their tribe in a game that required wilderness skills. This is a big part of why they struggled so much in the first 2 episodes, and why it took forever for them to make fire with flint. From what I've read in interviews apparently they only managed to make fire with flint AFTER the second immunity challenge (i.e. several days after getting flint). Some of the other tribes by contrast had people who were wilderness survival experts to carry them in the first 2 episodes.
And on top of that, they were clearly physically weaker than the other three tribes as well. Unfortunately just not a very well balanced tribe all around
Being in an urban area doesn’t affect how you play survivor nigga
You’re also stereotyping the aa cast members all coming from urban areas when I’m pretty sure a lot of other people came from big cities due to casting
I agree with you, but to be fair, I feel like 75% of players come from urban areas, especially in that era of survivor
@@joeertman 13/20 castaways on Cook Islands were from California and others were from urban areas like NY and DC too
Luke really giving a sudden left hook to us by dunking on Sugar over Candace
“You’re a cop, I know you’re a cop.” God I loved that season!
*"Expert negotiator" Shows Angelina*
That was my favorite part of the video
put some respect on her name, she climbed a 100 feet tall wall in order to get an idol!!!! that’s dedication if you ask me
@@eriichidalgoo Nah, she climbed A MOUNTAIN to get the idol!!!
I'm surprised we have not seen a geographical based division season yet. Easy to do, not at all problematic, and gives the show a chance to have contestants from states (provinces?) that are less represented.
It would be kind of fun to see something like, West vs. East. Then again I'm from the Pacific Northwest, so I think I maybe a little biased wanted to see something like that
Even though I prefer a 2 tribe pre-merge, I think a slightly larger cast and begin with Northeast, Southeast, Northwest, and Southwest. I think I casting would have to be cognizant not to play into each area's stereotype, though. I think the dynamics would be really interesting.
@@periwinkledoodles5167 It was made in french version so I want it in american version
East-coast vs West-coast vs Mid-West sounds fun, especially since you know well everyone would root for the mid-west.
I'd be interested to see brains v brawn v beauty re-interpreted and cast as body-mind-soul. You still have a physically gifted tribe and a brainiac tribe, and instead of the third being a shallow and uncomfortable designation, you have a tribe who bring high emotional intelligence or focus on interpersonal relationships instead of strategy or strength.
I would be super down for that. That sounds super fun
To be fair, they kind of did do that in regards to casting Tai & Brice - I think they were picked more in regards to some kind of "inner beauty" than how they physically use appearance as parts of their job? I think they should keep the branding of BBB, because that's a lot more marketable, but try to cast more people in the same vein as those two. Some kind of a mix would be nice to see.
It would feel strange to have a tribe designated as “soul”. Would that imply other tribes don’t have a soul? And what does soul mean? They meditate or do holistic new age stuff? It would confuse the players and the audience
This is such a good idea, I never would’ve thought about that
I’d call it “strength vs social vs strategy” lol
I feel like Blood vs Water deserved its own entry here (both for BvW and SJDS). While the tribe divide itself is semi-random it's clearly a theme based on the tribe division and we have plenty of room to talk about both the good and bad that originate from it.
Yeah I was a little sad he didn't mention San Juan Del Sur as it's arguably a much better season than BvW. The original BvW was already really compelling as we got to see players we knew and loved alongside their loved ones (some of which, like Laura B, had already appeared in loved one visits which is a really nice touch), but SJDS is equally compelling because we get immediate insights into all of the players via their loved ones. Plus it has the incredibly satisfying storytelling of Nadiya being the first boot and Natalie winning it all.
Gamechangers should’ve been Champs Vs Contenders. Half the cast were legends (Sandra, Tony, Ozzy, Cirie) and half were players that had never quite shined (Sarah, Caleb, Sierra, Zeke)
supposedly it was originally that before natalie a dropped out last minute due to a concussion and was replaced by sierra, throwing the numbers out of wack
@@uglyaniimals i dont but that. Thats like saying "well we can't find another Legend so, guess we gutta go with Sierra, and change the theme to something that makes no sense"..
Other guy "wait whose Sierra? The one who voted out her mom?"
@@BigPapiMatt i'm pretty sure it was sierra bc she dropped out last minute and she was the best they could find on such short notice ?? obv i don't know that for sure but personally i buy it bc there's literally no other reason for them to bring back sierra otherwise
I still contend that Sugar belongs on Heroes
Sugar in Gabon was one of the few contestants in Survivor history who was actively trying to produce a winner that would satisfy her instead of trying to win no matter what. Even if that’s not in the traditional spirit of what Survivor is about, it definitely embodies the spirit of being a “Hero”
Colby got put on Heroes because he took Tina to Final 2 instead of Keith, and that’s it. Sugar did basically the same thing, but she was doing it since the pre-merge.
If there is 1 person on that tribe that best represents what it means to be a Hero, it’s easily Sugar
Villains
Russell - known too backstab anyone
Rob - known to form a cult to get farther
Randy - known to not like anyone
Coach - known to act weird ?
Tyson- known too be mean to everyone
Sandra - known to not take any BS
Danielle - known to be mean spirited
Courtney - known to make fun of people
Jerry - known to prey on men
Parvati - known to use men
Heroes
JT - known as a nice southern boy
James - ?
Tom - known to be a stand up guy
Colby - known to be a fan favourite
Rupert - ?
Candice - ?
Amanda - ?
Cerie - ?
Sugar - ?
Stephen -?
The heroes have more players with question marks then the villains tribe lots of heroes acted like villains in their previous seasons and coach I don’t think is a villain in his original season he just acted weird not really a villain
@@ryans413
Coach - Profoundly hypocritical and compulsive liar
Rupert - same as Colby except even more popular (also both he and Colby were shown in such a way so as to emphasize their good qualities
James - Same as Colby and Rupert
Amanda - Partnered twice with more villainous people and so was portrayed as more heroic by contrast (it's BS but I think it's actually a thing)
Cirie - The everywoman who got off the couch and arguably best audience surrogate in the show's history.
Sugar - Kyle mentioned her justification
Steph - The lone survivor from the trainwreck Ulong tribe who never gave up no matter what.
To pre-empt any counter argument: I know there are also villainous sides to pretty much everyone on the heroes tribe (survivor doesn't actually have heroes (though some players (including Tom and Rupert) could be argued to be such in their jobs), the game isn't built that way) but the casting was based upon their portrayal and perception.
@@aidanmillow566 yea but Rupert freaked out on FairPlay remember more villain like and he’s stubborn even got into it with Russell that season. James is more of a bully to people he don’t like we saw that on previous seasons and he didn’t like Stephanie. Speaking of Stephanie she was rude to most her tribe mates the previous two times she played before heroes and villains. Sugar as much as people want to justify it is a villain. I’ll give you Amanda and Coach I guess but just go back and watch some these players early seasons everyone’s pretty much a villain and I guess the show arrange the cast too be who fans thought they were. I guess it’s hard too find actually heroes but I feel most the heroes so called were out there for fan service like people that could been there instead be like Bob winner of Gabon Natalie winner of Samoa Earl winner of Fiji Todd winner of China Yul winner of Cook Islands. Good example of good people true heroes
Sugar is one of my favorites!
@@bluemoss9831 Sugar was really bothersome to Colby, trying to stay close to him during the night.
Love this video!! The only thing I’ll say is that I’m pretty sure Ami identifies as bisexual - the media mischaracterized her as a lesbian at the time because bisexuality wasn’t as well-known of a concept as it is today. Thank you for looking into this :)
Thanks for sharing this!
My mistake, I didn't know that. Appreciate the correction, thank you!
@@IdoledOut Appreciate you always taking the time to listen on things like this!! Keep making great videos
That’s true because there’s no much thing as lesbians
@@rattlebbones6651 🤨
Survivor Cook Island's theme is taking all the fun of a diverse cast and dividing it up in the worst way possible LOL
Great video Luke!
Seeing your ranking I just realized that 2 out of the 3 finalists in "Winners at War" came from a "Brains vs Brawn vs Beauty" season. In fact, 3 out of the final 4.
Good tribal division theme indeed.
I feel like One World could have been an interesting theme if it weren’t for that cast and the male and female divisions. If it was divided randomly it would be interesting to see how they deal with cross tribal relationships.
they didn't want to give the viewing audience enough credit, they thought we wouldn't understand two tribes on the same beach if it wasn't for an obvious division like men and women. To be honest given the combined intelligence of the actual one world cast I don't know if they'd be able to keep track of who was on which tribe if it wasn't men v women.
I agree, I wish they would give the one world theme another shot! Just put everyone in really obviously colour-divided clothes. Or do the male/female thing again. I think the possibility for interesting dynamics is high. As noted in the video, Amazon and Vanuatu have the same theme but turned out very different. No reason that season should kill its theme
@@seanberrodin801 im gonna be real knowing me i would forget whos on what tribe tbh
I would love to see the twist of having everyone share the same camp again, but def without the gender divide
Could you please do a first boot ranking? That would be so fun to see as they're all not good players but it would be fun to see who number 1 is.
number 1 is legendary survivor player, Zane Knight
czcams.com/video/_yp7qDQOR9E/video.html
He has done it, it’s one of his first videos!
czcams.com/video/_yp7qDQOR9E/video.html
Fransesqwua is #1 no doubt
You're absolutely right about #2 (the occupational division). Everyone has said it could have been a better season had they cast likeable players, and I agree. I really thought Will Sims would be the comic relief throughout the whole season but he was just the opposite after those remarks to Shirin. I do think it was coincidence that all 3 collars were the Top 3
The Panama twist would have been made better if it was Blood vs Water… a Tribe of Mums, a Tribe of Dads, a Tribe of Sons and a Tribe of Daughters…
“And expert negotiators…” hahahaha that killed me
The gender divide was really awkward in Amazon where everybody was shallowly horny and sexist, byt Vanuatu is literally next on my rewatch and your characterization of how it's handled there makes me a lot more excited than I would have been otherwise.
Wasn’t sexist. It was just men being men before the soy generation came along.
@@GeorgeEugeneBarrett okay, snowflake
@@GeorgeEugeneBarrett your other comments are so embarrassing so I won't say anything
@@ewwitscullen9132 my comments are awesome to everyone except woke cucks.
@@GeorgeEugeneBarrettThe sexists were the older guys right? Rob and Alex weren't. Now we're learning something about the current movement.
I don’t watch survivor, but your voice is so strangely soothing.
Love your long sigh when you have to talk about the race division 😆
Rumor has it Fiji was supposed to be divided by race just like the cooks, but someone dropped out last minute so production scrapped the idea and just made two tribes.
They didn’t even make the tribes Sylvia did
@@justinpascal8332 because there was an uneven number players because of the dropout
@@justinpascal8332 …exactly… there were supposed to be 4.
@@ethan6483 i know its just fun to think about
Yes only season to have 19 cast members they started with uneven numbers
“I never read that [the story of David v Goliath” you and onceuponanisland are my two favorite survivor channels and I relate with your perspective there so much more. Just nice to know not every Survivor fan is a Christian, considering how often it comes up for the cast.
OUaI is a cool youtuber but god does he not shut up about his spirituality
Well America is a pretty religious country overall. So if you randomly cast 16-20 people, at least a handful will be religious. It would be statistically strange if you find 20 Americans and they’re all atheists
@@freddytang2128 fair, but there definitely wasn’t a highlight to anyone else’s religion the way Christians would be highlighted. Ethan is never like “I’m excited to maybe be the first Jewish winner”, we find out through Big Tom’s antics. The at least 5% of atheists that have been on the show have rarely spoken about it. If there ever was a Wiccan or other non-Abrahamic religion on it would probably be mocked. I don’t know if we’ve ever had a Sikh or Buddhist or otherwise winner or contestant, and Omar is the first Muslim contestant they’ve acknowledged or let speak about it for more than one instance as far as I know. And for modern survivor, I feel like the likelihood of finding 20 atheists has definitely increased.
@@OhSkyeLanta I don't remember religion being brought up much outside of like South Pacific. I do remember season 1, someone (forgot who brought a Bible) and I believe Rudy even mocked them for it. I also remember Roxy from season 25, but I don't hear religion being brought up a lot. I mean it is good though to see different perspectives so I don't see the issue.
"Blue Collars value hard work, White Collars value leadership and delegation and the No Collars value.... Being Naked? "😂😂😂
With Hali running it made my day
always love your outros creativity
while splitting by race is worse (obvs), I've always had a bone to pick with heroes, healers, and hnstlers. It was such a dumb division that they just thought of the first three words that started with H and built a season backward from there. Why they couldn't just do a season with people on tribes when they literally did that a season later will always boggle my mind. It's a time like this I'm happy the theme era of the show has ended.
"stop making me want to hear from butch" dude you are killingggg meeeee lololol 🤣🤣🤣
“His collar is right there” had me gasping for breath
I was watching some of your older videos and there was a comment about if you could make a history/timeline of chickens on survivor? Just a little joke video about anything remotely related to chickens in survivor, from Tai's chicken Mark who made it all the way to Chicken from Survivor China.
You forgot Palau: Competents vs Incompetents
That theme was coincidental, not intentional on production’s part. Hence why it’s not mentioned.
The one problem I have with the Brawn Brain Beauty theme is that in every iteration, the Brain tribe will always be at a disadvantage, simply by comparing the message each tribe sends.
Brawn: We're stronger that you. Alright, usually pretty obvious, and can simply be confirmed or refuted in the challenges.
Beauty. We're prettier that you. Um... okay. Who cares?
Brain: We're smarter than you. In Survivor, a game of wits and strategy at the end of the day, NOTHING triggers other players more and makes them WANT to prove them wrong than the implication that someone is smarter than them.
That's why Brain Tribes will always have a steeper hill to climb in Survivor than the Beauties who get to be easily underestimated.
Australian Survivor did Brains V Brawn 2 years ago, and while I would not rate it as a good season, the split, in theory was really good. It almost played out very David Vs Goliath-y
I mean survivor is, at it's most basic level, a popularity contest. Which should in theory favor beauty.
@@nicklandkroon8182 That season is actually my favourite of all time lol
@@aidanmillow566 I'm not disagreeing that social capital is what is most important in the game, and it is something the Beauties likely are the most proficient at of the three teams, but I feel like most people don't want to believe that, and assume the game is about wits and strategic intelect.
Except the guy that won that season was a brawn not a brain. Why I love that season you think because of the stereotypes a brain being smart world win but didn’t
i love Luke’s snarkyness
I wonder what a “teachers vs students” type division would turn out
Interesting I always thought a celebrity vs legends vs fans be a good one too try bring in some new players some celebrities dosnt have to be like movie stars could be anyone well known for music or tv or script writer or anyone well known in Hollywood and then have some survivor legends that have played the game before. Now that be a good mix of people
They are stereotypical airheaded and typical beauty queens but enough about Morgan
That just had me rolling on the floor 😂 😂 😂
I love your vids
The thing I like most about MvGX is speculating on how well I would have been able to do if I was cast on the season, and that's actually difficult to do because I don't know which tribe I would have been on. Technically I'm a millennial but my upbringing and lifestyle over the years makes me more like Gen X. As far as my age relative to the actual cast, I am in the middle. Everyone on the millennial tribe is younger than me. Everyone on the gen X tribe is older than me.
Mari did talk about that in post-show interviews since she was the only person on the millenials not in their twenties while with Ken there were other people in their thirties on the Gen X tribe.
Thanks for posting this dad
Man really said "I'm coming for Morgan today"
U are my favorite CZcamsr
LMAO you're making me want to rewatch David Vs. Goliath
Never change, Idoled Out.
I love your 'got nothin else for ya' I get a cheeky smile each time.
This’ll be the only time season 30 gets high on a list for any reason.
The dirty 30
I'd like to see heroes vs villains vs champions. Have tribe full of heros and tribe full of villains who have never won than tribe full of winners who won thire seasons as mix. The champions would have big target on thire back coming in
Another could be strength vs puzzle vs social. Contest that dominated in physical challenges ones great at puzzles and ones who played strong social game
Heroes vs. Villains is a good concept, but I don't really understand the Gabon picks for the season Sugar wasn't exactly a hero in her season, she made it to the end thanks to Bob but being unlikable and Randy doesn't feel like a villain I feel his main trait is being grumpy.
“She made it to the end thanks to Bob”. Did you watch Gabon cause it was literally the other way around. Sugar was in the majority for most of the game and she saved Bob at the final 4.
I want a Canadian versus American season now ahdhfhf but I think we’d 🇨🇦 steamroll based on how the last 2 seasons have gone
10. Cook Islands should've just done a schoolyard pick - i'm sure the tribes would've been MOSTLY race divided anyway (since it would be based on first impressions only, and people have their biases) but with a bit more variety per tribe / none of the cringey optics / they could've kept the smaller tribes LONGER and not needed to swap on ep 3.
9. I think s35 should've just been a regular season with regular tribe names, if they had kept the season exactly the same BUT ditched the 'theme" the whole season becomes less cringey.
8. I definitely agree that Fans Vs Favorites (assuming it's ACTUALLY superfans) is a cool idea in theory but absolutely sucks in practice because of how unfair it is, similar to how TAR31 saw the TAR veteran teams DECIMATE the Big Brother and Survivor teams in the most predictable fashion possible. Micronesia's Natalie, Erik, and Alexis all could've been the breakout stars of their season on a cast of newbies but sadly get outshined by the favorites tribe and way underedited. The only "return" of this format i'd ever wanna see is maybe Fans Vs First Boots and even then i'm almost positive a First Boot returnee would win the season. (But at least it would shut up the "I WANT A FIRST BOOT SEASON" people on Reddit and Facebook)
7. Agree that the s12 divide sucks, and much like any other season that swaps within the second or third or fourth episodes, swaps MUCH too early. I think, rather than "older" and "younger" though a good idea for a returnee season could be "oldschool" vs "newschool" though. WAW, for example, could've been "Oldschool men", "oldschool women", "newschool men" and "newschool women" and it would've been my era of the show played RATHER than actual age making it a lot more balanced and probably would've led to a FAR more exciting WAW than the boring nonsense and terrible boot order we actually got that season. (or hell, a "oldschool vs newschool" season in general without the gender divide would've been fine too!)
6. I lowkey love dividing casts by gender (although I suppose it's basically impossible to do this now that Survivor is casting trans and nonbinary players?) and as although as the creepy guys in The Amazon are, I think both s6 and s9 are great! We don't talk about One World, but I do think Kim Spradlin unintentionally plays a VERY similar style game to Ami - and both are huge utilizers of lovebombing as a manipulation tactic which is so criminally underutilized (or misused?) by players generally.
5. I hate age divides, HOWEVER I much prefer seasons with age diversity - too many seasons tokenize middle and older age contestants to the point where they obviously will never stand a shot. (Similar to how seasons with only one POC won't stand a chance against 17 white players)
4. DvG - great season, great theme but I don't ever want them to revisit it!
3. HvV - Ditto with the above.
2. Divisions by job or class - Yeah this is a fine idea in spirit, although I think they could've also done a "pinkcollar" tribe aka nurses, teachers, care professionals, etc. which would've provided an alternative likeable tribe in case the blue collars or no collars both turn out to be disasters. haha
1. BBB. Hard facts, such a great theme - I wish they would revisit this theme more times tbh.
Also, I love Blood Vs Water as a theme, and want them to revisit it more!
The thing with pink collar is while teachers might compare to nurses professors do not. And a teacher and a professor are not the same thing.
The whole “racial tribes” was used because the production kept being accused of not being “racial diverse” and I find it’s funny how when they actually addressed that, it backfired xD
Very accurate rankings
Awesome new vid idea, buddy!!!
Wish they would do a BvW with only identical twins siblings and like each pair of twins is on a different tribe. So 2 tribes where everyone has someone identical on the other tribe. Would be epic.
The great thing about brains vs brawn vs beauty is that it kinda overlaps with the "three pillars of play" they've been leaning into as of late of strategy vs challenge threats vs the social game. It was also really cool that they had different people showing different aspects of each attribute. Like they had plenty of people on the brains tribes who thought analytically and often worked in STEM, but they also would often have one of two people who were more creative than traditionally smart. Same with brawn where they'd have different types of athleticism, and beauty where you had very conventionally attractive people but also people with a lot of inner beauty who people can't help but like for their kindness. Worse casting could've left us with three fairly one dimensional tribes but instead we got a more rounded look at the central theme.
my favorite moment from the first BvBvB (other than the entire brain tribe's implosion, specifically voting Garret out after J'Tia dumped out the rice) was when Sarah beat J'Tia and the Beauty contestant in a rather difficult puzzle, and she jokingly yelled out, "Jeff, I think I'm on the wrong tribe!"
Shots fired at 00:14 “X or Y” then shows his favorite Hero!
gotta say i think heroes vs villains is number 1 for me but i respect the rankings
NOT you showing Shane with the rock while talking about text messages 🤣
Could you just imagine being in the race divided season if they didn't have an early swap and they could form stronger alliances? I would absolutely hate to be in a situation that would encourage thinking stuff like "We need to ensure the asians don't keep their numbers lead."
I think in Aitu’s tribal where they voted out Flicka, one of the considerations was “all five Caucasians are still here, let’s vote one of them out or they’ll be too overpowered”
Race Wars was honestly one of the best seasons.
I want Heroes vs Villains again
Season 20 by far the best dam season ever there’s others that come very close but my god is it ever good so many story bests so many good tribals so many jaw dropping moments. The Tyson boot by far best tribal ever the JT letter the stupidest thing ever more stupid then Erick giving up his immunity. The battle of Rob and Russell and Russell coming out ontop too continue his dominance. Sandra winning twice first player too doo that. Parvati playing two idols Stephanie dislocating her shoulder day one. I can keep going the season was jam packed with great moments
How do you feel about captains theme? Philippines/Guatemala/EOE
when John Morrison was on survivor was so good and so sad when he got voted out
I would like to see the One World twist return, but have the tribes swap every round.
My best idea for this is dividing tribes by region: Deep South, East Coast, West Coast, Midwest, etc.
For me Men vs Women is not a bad tribe division, you just need the right type of cast just like Vanuatu and don't have Colten, Alicia and Roger of the worlds
My favorite is Blood vs Villains vs Gen X vs Brawn vs Goliath vs Fans vs Women vs Caucasians
18:39 That's not bad thing. We never seen player with ego reaching about same height like Burj Khalifa since Russell Hantz until Morgan came to Cagayan
Millenials vs Gen Z should be next
Well the winner from "Survivor: Worlds Apart" was kinda cute.
Next time on survivor people who would sacrifice a challenge chance to get rice for the whole tribe vs people who wouldn't
The only reason I don’t find David vs Goliath to be a top tier theme is because if a Goliath won I think the season would have been seen as not as good and the show almost wants you to root against all the Goliaths
what sucks is that heroes vs healers vs hustlers was my first survivor season and i thought it was amazing for so long 😂
another thing about brain brawn beauty is that beauty isn't an inherent trait that helps you win the game. you can say all you want about pretty privledge but no one has ever won survivor on the bases of looks. Parvati used her beauty as a way to win allies but she was also smart AND strong. brain and brawn are much more limited. of course you can have strong and smart, but the casting is way more limited for those tribes. ex: Michelle, beautiful obvi but won the game not using that trait
Repeating what I said elsewhere that probably actually better applies here: Survivor is at its most basic a popularity contest: right up beauty's ally.
@@aidanmillow566 yeah I agree with that. all I'm saying here is that being beautiful isnt an exclusive trait such as being smart or being strong. obviously you can be both but you're more likely to have (especially w survivor casting) strong and dumb or smart and weak, being beautiful doesn't inherently exclude those other traits.
What if I told you Australian Survivor improved on the theme by dropping beauty?
Because Australians are all beautiful 😆
Talking about HvV without bashing Candice? Impossible
Yaaay I'm kinda early!!
Aw yes, the old themed tribal divisions, the things that gave each season their own identity...for about two or three episodes before they do a tribe swap, thus making the original theme utterly pointless. Maybe this is why the seasons' names are just numbers.
i wonder if they'll end up doing millenials vs gen z in the future. i don't know how i feel about that idea
I don’t think it should happen.
🐐
12:33 “Expert negotiators” 💀💀💀
Angelina is THE definition of negotiation.
Hello carrots
hello, peas. miss you so much. i’ll never be gone this long from you again.
Here are my ranking of the theme's based on a combination of potential and how they played out I'm including blood vs. water since it is listed as a theme on survivor wiki but not Panama since it's to irrelevant.
10.Race
9.Collars
8.newbie's vs. returning players
7.Heroes vs. healers vs. hustlers
6.age
5.david vs. goliath
4.heroes vs. villain's
3.Brain vs. brawn vs. beauty
2.gender
1.blood vs. water
Excluding "arbitrary" tribal divisions so Fiji doesn't take #1 I see!
Only racist can be insult by dividing team by race
funemployed 💀
💖
“Not real fans or real favorites” 😂😂
This video is so HOT 🔥🔥🔥!
Bring back Morgan!!
I could argue that all the hero females except Amanda could have qualified to be a villain too. It came down to popularity with the audience mostly.
Sugar didn't have a showmance
Ace?
@@XanderMatthews-nv9zf um no they didn't They barely had an alliance
🌹🌹
MvGX was such a great season but the constant discussion of the "generational gap" is so fucking annoying. There's so much "even though I'm a millennial, I'll work hard", etc. and it's unbearable.
The first one came to my mind is Gen X vs Millennials. What a stupid theme. Jeff had to put words into contestants month to justify the difference between 2 generations
I have to say that the younger tribes had physical advantages and won early on. They say this was not the case in Nicaragua but older people are less sharper than younger ones especially then. Tbh, had there been no age division, Chase Rice would have left much earlier. Holly and Jane got screwed by having less numbers early on. David got screwed as well. Ken maybe doesn't end up in that situation.
But enough about Morgan 😂😂😂
Great video, but how the hell do returning players have the advantage? That statement is absolutely incorrect. It's 2 tribes of equal size.
They cast terrible fans in the first one. They looked like they were recruited at K-Mart.
my rankings based purely on the potential of the themes and not how they played out
worst to best
FVF
YOUNG VS OLD
YOUNG OLD GENDER
hhh
outcasts
gender
dvg
collars
mvgx
bvw
bbb
race
hvv
Vanauatu was not supposed to be a gender divide it was cause of the local people taking the men and leaving the women out of the ceremony
first one
Flip-flop 10th and 9th and your list is perfect. Heroes' vs Healers vs Hustlers is the worst theme ever. When they said Heroes'' first for their next season I got excited it was going to be another Heroes' vs Villains but when they also said vs Healers vs Hustlers not only it was a letdown but a horrible theme too. Now I know how the Knicks fans felt when they didn't get the draft pick to get Zion Williamson and this theme was a year before Zion committed to play college basketball at Duke.
returning vs new shoulda been nr 10
I agree. It is so lopsided.
"You'd literally be fire on the spot for proposing something so racist!"
Next line mocking AAVE: "Survivor. You crazy!"