I use the same technique often. Depending on the board, often I will only cut the leading edge and then lift the board off the cutter at midpoint and start again (without feeding the board completely through). Sometimes I will rotate the board end for end between passes. I find it can help me to end up with a greater final thickness sometimes. With thought and care you can also deal with longer twisted boards by employing the same technique of stopping mid cut (when you are in a high spot unaffected by the cutterhead) and lifting the board off to start again (sometimes same end, sometimes opposite). You have to read the board and determine what will work best. Once you have it decently flat the rest of the job becomes easy!
I'm a Semi driver, And when I'm driving behind a flatbedder,....loaded with treated timber or not... Then if it's not tarped, My first thought is..... " Are you kidding me???...It's now raining and the poor soul whose gonna get this load will have warping issues, big time.." I have ADHD but my Dad was a woodworker, so I'm feeling the customers pain... LOL Good video! We get the simplicity here, done ✅right, what a help.
This proves that you CAN use a jointer on a warped piece. People would tell me at the wood shop "You have to cut an end piece off, then rip it down the middle and let it sit overnight and allow the tension to come out and _then_ run the faces and edges of both pieces through the jointer, plane them, then use biscuits and glue but make sure one of the boards is flipped over to get contrasting grains, let them sit overnight and _then_ run the reassembled piece through the jointer, planer and table saw. But I could show them this video even and they'll probably just say something contrarian like "Too many people adjust the height of the jointer and never set it back, so it's off limits to adjusting". Regardless, thanks for showing us all this tip. I feel incredibly vindicated
Super helpful! I just ruined a test board because I didn't see a warp, and it made me think my new jointer was not true by 1/8". I was applying equal pressure.
This is a neat solution to the problem of twisted boards. Needles to say, an experienced woodworker always inspect the board before attempting to joint it; that's the first step. Next, just as you would when using a hand plane, you should ask yourself - where do I want to remove wood to get the board flat? The obvious answer in this case, just as Bob stated in the video, you would want to take off the "high" corners first. A way that I approach this - and this is easier if the machine has a European type of guard, known as a Suva guard - is to place the board halfway over the cutter, BEFORE starting the machine, while holding on to the board on the outfeed side. If the board is as twisted as in this video, the cutter will hardly touch the board at all, due to the high corners. Then I start the machine and with both hands at the outfeed side, I will push the corner that doesn't touch the table half way down before feeding the trailing end of the board over the cutter. Then I TURN THE MACHINE OFF! Next I turn the board end for end and repeat the process to remove the high corner of the other end. This process should remove most of the twist, if not all. In case the twist is still severe, repeat all the steps above until the high corners are removed, or at least less pronounced. Finally, take one normal pass along the entire surface to get a clean face. SECURITY ISSUES: always turn the machine off before placing the work piece half way over the cutter. When you start feeding, keep both hands on the outfeed side of the cutter. The Suva guard, or variations of it, has been mandatory in Europe for decades but I believe they have become more common also in the US. The idea is to keep the guard between the work piece and your hand at all times; you will typically start feeding with your left hand close to the leading end of the work piece and the right hand close to the left. When your left hand reaches the guard, you let the hand slide over the guard and as the work piece advances on the outfeed table, the left hand applies firm pressure on the piece. As soon as the piece has advanced enough, you right hand follows, sliding over the guard. The feeding of the work piece over the cutter will continue with both hands over the outfeed table, alternating their position according to the length of the work piece. This process might seem awkward at first, especially of you are accustomed to use a machine with a different style of guard, but after a while it will become second nature. The technique described here is very safe and also eliminates the need for using feeding pads; in fact I find the pads very awkward and I don't even own any. However, I appreciate that they might be appropriate if your machine has the style of guard that is most common in the US. Regardless of which guard your machine is equipped with and if you use pads or not, as soon as the workpiece has reached the outfeed table, the hand pressure should always be applied there and never to the infeed side. That is, if you want a straight board...
With a small jointer this won't work so have to use a block plane to knock down those corners then go to the jointer. Nice demonstration for those with larger shops though.
Your method is great for short boards, but what about boards over 8 feet long? Would it be better to use a planer with a sled and shims ? I have an 8'6" X 8" hard maple board that has a twist and I'm using it for an apron on a new workbench that is 8' long. It is also 2" thick so it's fairly heavy push. Would appreciate any help I can get.
Pretty cool point. However, face jointing longer boards is always a challenge. As easy as he seems to make it and regardless of your technique, I find that any board longer than 16" requires adjustments to pressure on the outfeed table and the amount of material you take off. Frankly, I prefer to use a surface planer sled with shims and even that's not perfect. the best solution is to hand pick your boards and walk away when there are twists.
After you joint one face and one edge on the jointer you take it to a thickness planer. Then you can rip it on a table saw. Totally square board after those steps and ready for whatever. Although some suggest that with rough lumber you square it up but not to final dimensions. You let it sit for a week or two then do a final planing.
There's no easy cure for it other than planing off enough material. Maybe someone will bring to market a long thin oven where you could steam the board until it has enough moister/softness to then clamp it so it is flat, then back into the oven without water to dry it out.
Neat demonstration. But 'twisted' board, 'warp' speed. Was this pun intentional? I sure hope so as this is my 'twisted' sense of humour I am always fighting to hide on my channel without success.
so if the board is short enough, why not use the two pads and press evenly on both high spots, front and back? it wouldn't rock and seems less finicky than splitting the difference.
By definition, if you only press on the two high spots, you are creating an axis for the board to rock on. You have to eliminate the rock, by either pushing on a low spot as well (which works if the warp is minimal, but will not work on a board that is as badly warped in the video), or you have to split the difference as he does.
Matt Williams I think we are talking about different meanings of high spots. if you press evenly on the two sides that are touching the table then it shouldn't rock, it will take those sides down first until you have a flat board
Psst... Sure... 2 passes... haha Gets it in only 3 Wait, what? I thought the board was going to be an 1/8 thick by the time he was finished. Good job man
You should care what it looks like, if its not cutting the whole plane of the face then there could be dips still all over it. It not rocking means your edges are on plane but not necessarily the face.
SoundsFantastic the problem with that theory is the planer table which is match ground in production is cuppud as well .the tables are dead flat on those machines .
Ian Muir You make no sense. The blades do not "match ground". They plane flat like the table. After each pass you want to watch the face to see the spots which are not being planed.
I know the blades aren't match ground. the tables are it means they were milled at the same time to dictate exact match for the infeed and outfeed tables.
You are absolutely correct. I keep passing them until the entire face has fresh cuts. Problem I still haven’t solved is that often I need to start out with 12/4 to get to 3/4 finished (exaggeration but you get the idea)
First of all, when you rocked the board after the first pass both ends were off the table. Second, that third pass still didn't have it flat and you left about a third of the board overhanging the outfeed table so you weren't actually checking the entire timber. Your technique is fine, it's just your presentation that implies it is more efficient than it actually is. Still, half a board is better than a twisted one.
Kroban3 hey I was just trying to point out that if you ignore those things you won’t end up with a 4S piece of lumber. If that’s OK with you, then fine. I won’t argue with you. The results will speak volumes.
@@sdcofer52 For the apprentices out there it probably wasn't a good presentation. For those of us doing this a while it was totally acceptable, that all I'm saying.
Using a hand plane ahead of time not only defeats the purpose of his demonstration, but wastes time. This is "warp speed" when compared to wasting time with a hand plane. The method shown is clearly faster and cleaner than using a hand plane.
Or a propeller for an aeroplane. Bob Van Dyke is a wizard! I used to say to my timber supplier "Don't send me any bananas or boomerangs" but I reckon that they snuck a few in with every order, "We gotta get rid of 'em somehow" Ha Ha. They just laughed! How blatant! My latest supplier sends all stock D.A.R. Dressed All Round, for only a $2/ Meter charge on 9" X 2" hardwood. Sometimes, as they plane them down, they find and remove a lot of faults, like sap veins etc. so the boards end up as 7 and 7/8" X 1 and 7/8" They will send those same planks with a five finger joint on them for an additional $2/ Metre; Yep, Table tops! It beats the hell outta me dulling my router bits and overworking my small router. I like dealing with these folks.
I use the same technique often. Depending on the board, often I will only cut the leading edge and then lift the board off the cutter at midpoint and start again (without feeding the board completely through). Sometimes I will rotate the board end for end between passes. I find it can help me to end up with a greater final thickness sometimes.
With thought and care you can also deal with longer twisted boards by employing the same technique of stopping mid cut (when you are in a high spot unaffected by the cutterhead) and lifting the board off to start again (sometimes same end, sometimes opposite). You have to read the board and determine what will work best. Once you have it decently flat the rest of the job becomes easy!
Thank you thank you thank you. I was attempting to do this with a jack plane my shoulders thank you.
I'm a Semi driver,
And when I'm driving behind a flatbedder,....loaded with treated timber or not...
Then if it's not tarped,
My first thought is.....
" Are you kidding me???...It's now raining and the poor soul whose gonna get this load will have warping issues, big time.."
I have ADHD but my Dad was a woodworker, so I'm feeling the customers pain...
LOL
Good video!
We get the simplicity here, done ✅right, what a help.
in such cases i usually take a hand plane and plane down the high corners a bit before i go to the jointer
I use wood shims to even it out.
Thanks for that. I have ruined a couple of boards this week, and wondered if there was a trick to getting the twist out.
This proves that you CAN use a jointer on a warped piece. People would tell me at the wood shop "You have to cut an end piece off, then rip it down the middle and let it sit overnight and allow the tension to come out and _then_ run the faces and edges of both pieces through the jointer, plane them, then use biscuits and glue but make sure one of the boards is flipped over to get contrasting grains, let them sit overnight and _then_ run the reassembled piece through the jointer, planer and table saw.
But I could show them this video even and they'll probably just say something contrarian like "Too many people adjust the height of the jointer and never set it back, so it's off limits to adjusting".
Regardless, thanks for showing us all this tip. I feel incredibly vindicated
Watching this makes me miss the days I had access to industrial woodworking equipment. Great tip
A lunchbox planer with a sled can achieve the same results.
@@ThekiBoran That and a bunch of shims.
@@incognitotorpedo42 and also a bunch of time
@@kaleoscreations8069 true so much that i just decided to get a jointer
It's crazy to see him do what I TRY to do with twisted boards. I somehow usually just end up enhancing the twist. -_-
haha thats funny
I don't face joint much, but I learned something today. Great Video, Thanks.
Thank you for this. :) My jointer kept on messing stuff up i thought, so I had to plane out twists by hand. Turns out it was my own doing.
Super helpful! I just ruined a test board because I didn't see a warp, and it made me think my new jointer was not true by 1/8". I was applying equal pressure.
This is a neat solution to the problem of twisted boards. Needles to say, an experienced woodworker always inspect the board before attempting to joint it; that's the first step. Next, just as you would when using a hand plane, you should ask yourself - where do I want to remove wood to get the board flat? The obvious answer in this case, just as Bob stated in the video, you would want to take off the "high" corners first.
A way that I approach this - and this is easier if the machine has a European type of guard, known as a Suva guard - is to place the board halfway over the cutter, BEFORE starting the machine, while holding on to the board on the outfeed side. If the board is as twisted as in this video, the cutter will hardly touch the board at all, due to the high corners. Then I start the machine and with both hands at the outfeed side, I will push the corner that doesn't touch the table half way down before feeding the trailing end of the board over the cutter. Then I TURN THE MACHINE OFF! Next I turn the board end for end and repeat the process to remove the high corner of the other end.
This process should remove most of the twist, if not all. In case the twist is still severe, repeat all the steps above until the high corners are removed, or at least less pronounced. Finally, take one normal pass along the entire surface to get a clean face.
SECURITY ISSUES: always turn the machine off before placing the work piece half way over the cutter. When you start feeding, keep both hands on the outfeed side of the cutter.
The Suva guard, or variations of it, has been mandatory in Europe for decades but I believe they have become more common also in the US. The idea is to keep the guard between the work piece and your hand at all times; you will typically start feeding with your left hand close to the leading end of the work piece and the right hand close to the left. When your left hand reaches the guard, you let the hand slide over the guard and as the work piece advances on the outfeed table, the left hand applies firm pressure on the piece. As soon as the piece has advanced enough, you right hand follows, sliding over the guard. The feeding of the work piece over the cutter will continue with both hands over the outfeed table, alternating their position according to the length of the work piece. This process might seem awkward at first, especially of you are accustomed to use a machine with a different style of guard, but after a while it will become second nature.
The technique described here is very safe and also eliminates the need for using feeding pads; in fact I find the pads very awkward and I don't even own any. However, I appreciate that they might be appropriate if your machine has the style of guard that is most common in the US. Regardless of which guard your machine is equipped with and if you use pads or not, as soon as the workpiece has reached the outfeed table, the hand pressure should always be applied there and never to the infeed side. That is, if you want a straight board...
Thank you for sharing this knowledge.
that was pretty cool. I like your work tables
Thanks! You helped to save my second board. 😊
Awesome, thanks for the tip sir.
Thanks for the tip!
I just used a hand power planer. Need to keep the twist in mind though.
Very useful thank you.
Great idea! Thank you.
I consider myself an expert in toothpick making, Cause that’s how all my boards like this end up
so true, i thought it's just me
Thanks Bob.
With a small jointer this won't work so have to use a block plane to knock down those corners then go to the jointer. Nice demonstration for those with larger shops though.
I've done it. I turn the wood every time but in same surface.
Your method is great for short boards, but what about boards over 8 feet long? Would it be better to use a planer with a sled and shims ? I have an 8'6" X 8" hard maple board that has a twist and I'm using it for an apron on a new workbench that is 8' long. It is also 2" thick so it's fairly heavy push. Would appreciate any help I can get.
مرحبا هذه هي الطريقة الصحيحة والسهلة لتعديل الخشب لاعوج هل توجد طريقة اخرى يمكن ان نستعمل الماء او مادة مرطبة للخشب
Boards like this in my shop end up in the fireplace.
Seems like that's all that Home Depot or Lowes sells these days. It's all junk
Pretty cool point. However, face jointing longer boards is always a challenge. As easy as he seems to make it and regardless of your technique, I find that any board longer than 16" requires adjustments to pressure on the outfeed table and the amount of material you take off. Frankly, I prefer to use a surface planer sled with shims and even that's not perfect. the best solution is to hand pick your boards and walk away when there are twists.
I use wood shims to even it out.
Seems like all boards at Home Depot are like that twisted board! So frustrating.
Lowe's is no better.
I think this method works only with a long outfeed/infeed table.
take out a scrub plane knock of the high spots then run it through
How do you plane out the face so its parallel to the first planing ?
After you joint one face and one edge on the jointer you take it to a thickness planer. Then you can rip it on a table saw. Totally square board after those steps and ready for whatever. Although some suggest that with rough lumber you square it up but not to final dimensions. You let it sit for a week or two then do a final planing.
and what about the other side?
perfect
cool Stuff.
If the curve is too much. I mean if i would plane it down it would end up from the ends. Is there any cure for this. Please help.
There's no easy cure for it other than planing off enough material. Maybe someone will bring to market a long thin oven where you could steam the board until it has enough moister/softness to then clamp it so it is flat, then back into the oven without water to dry it out.
Cool!
Neat demonstration. But 'twisted' board, 'warp' speed. Was this pun intentional? I sure hope so as this is my 'twisted' sense of humour I am always fighting to hide on my channel without success.
I assume that you ran this through a thickness planer to finish the board.
Docglock 19 probably
Joint a face, then an edge, then thickness plane then rip on a table saw.
Fine wood working is the only source I trust.
Next step. Thickness planer for the flip side.
Nope, you joint one edge then the thickness planer, then a table saw for the final edge.
so if the board is short enough, why not use the two pads and press evenly on both high spots, front and back? it wouldn't rock and seems less finicky than splitting the difference.
By definition, if you only press on the two high spots, you are creating an axis for the board to rock on. You have to eliminate the rock, by either pushing on a low spot as well (which works if the warp is minimal, but will not work on a board that is as badly warped in the video), or you have to split the difference as he does.
Matt Williams I think we are talking about different meanings of high spots. if you press evenly on the two sides that are touching the table then it shouldn't rock, it will take those sides down first until you have a flat board
Psst... Sure... 2 passes... haha
Gets it in only 3
Wait, what? I thought the board was going to be an 1/8 thick by the time he was finished. Good job man
Looks like a total pain in the ass.
Great tips if your still dimensioning your timber.
I don’t bother with boards that wonky. I think it’s a warning
You should care what it looks like, if its not cutting the whole plane of the face then there could be dips still all over it. It not rocking means your edges are on plane but not necessarily the face.
SoundsFantastic the problem with that theory is the planer table which is match ground in production is cuppud as well .the tables are dead flat on those machines .
Ian Muir You make no sense. The blades do not "match ground". They plane flat like the table. After each pass you want to watch the face to see the spots which are not being planed.
I know the blades aren't match ground. the tables are it means they were milled at the same time to dictate exact match for the infeed and outfeed tables.
You are absolutely correct. I keep passing them until the entire face has fresh cuts. Problem I still haven’t solved is that often I need to start out with 12/4 to get to 3/4 finished (exaggeration but you get the idea)
Its still flat enough to register on the planer bed. Works great. We do this daily at work
tl:dr: try to split the difference
First of all, when you rocked the board after the first pass both ends were off the table. Second, that third pass still didn't have it flat and you left about a third of the board overhanging the outfeed table so you weren't actually checking the entire timber. Your technique is fine, it's just your presentation that implies it is more efficient than it actually is. Still, half a board is better than a twisted one.
His presentation was fine, most of us get it.
Kroban3 hey I was just trying to point out that if you ignore those things you won’t end up with a 4S piece of lumber. If that’s OK with you, then fine. I won’t argue with you. The results will speak volumes.
@@sdcofer52
For the apprentices out there it probably wasn't a good presentation. For those of us doing this a while it was totally acceptable, that all I'm saying.
Kroban3 OK, I accept that.
you got low spot...
Well you're not supposed to push down like that on the board soooooo.....
Sooooooooo what? He just demonstrated how to remove twist. Who are you?
Using a hand plane ahead of time not only defeats the purpose of his demonstration, but wastes time. This is "warp speed" when compared to wasting time with a hand plane. The method shown is clearly faster and cleaner than using a hand plane.
Listen the machine..... change the blades......they are worn, you should sharpen them beffore doing video.
That board was perfect for wooden DNA model! Shame.
Or a propeller for an aeroplane.
Bob Van Dyke is a wizard!
I used to say to my timber supplier
"Don't send me any bananas or boomerangs"
but I reckon that they snuck a few in with every order,
"We gotta get rid of 'em somehow" Ha Ha. They just laughed!
How blatant!
My latest supplier sends all stock D.A.R.
Dressed All Round, for only a $2/ Meter charge on 9" X 2" hardwood.
Sometimes, as they plane them down, they find and remove a lot of faults,
like sap veins etc. so the boards end up as 7 and 7/8" X 1 and 7/8"
They will send those same planks with a five finger joint on them for an additional $2/ Metre; Yep, Table tops!
It beats the hell outta me dulling my router bits and overworking my small router.
I like dealing with these folks.