Mill and Process Lumber Like a Pro - Woodworking Essentials
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
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Milling Lumber flat, square and parallel is a process whose importance and complexity is often overlooked. Keeping it that way until your woodworking project is complete is even more complex. Jointing, Planing and Cutting wood that stays flat and square is crucial in building furniture and today we take a look at the proper way to mill lumber and get professional quality results.
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Timestamps
Intro 0:00
Buying Lumber - Size and Milling Type 0:53
Starting vs Final Thickness 3:24
Releasing Moisture from The Middle of the Board and Cupping 4:35
Milling Timeline 4:54
Milling Process - Flat, Parallel, Square 5:45
Difference Between a Jointer and a Planer 7:24
Planing Tips 8:09
Milling for Real 9:20
Amazing Jointing Tip 9:45
Some final Tips and Tricks 10:25
Table Saw Blades are on Sale 11:26
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One trick you can do on the “#3” step is flip the board over and plane #1 again once 1 and 3 are parallel. This is super handy if there’s imperfections on the #1 face. When I’m milling down salvaged pressure treated boards I don’t need to spend a bunch of time at the joiner removing perforations from the faces. I just need it flat, then once it’s parallel, I flip it over and remove the perforations with the planer. Same thing on the table saw with 2 and 4.
Salvaged exterior wood is also super stable. Exposed to the sun, temperature, freezing it gets really “seasoned”. Traditional Japanese builders might leave wood at a site for 2 years before working with it. I can attest that almost any exterior project I’ve done where I took lumber directly from the yard to the job site will lose at least 1/8” of its width sometimes 1/4”.
Awesome book that gives you step-by-step photos czcams.com/users/postUgkxTNB_zFBSnTo_O1PqfVUwgi7ityw0JlKt and directions to make every day project. I can see myself making a few of these projects and giving them as housewarming and holiday gifts!
The “Jesus Fish” thing is actually the top loop of the letter “f” in cursive. The letter “f” is used for the word “face”.
Actually, the Jesus fish is a symbol of fertility. It was displayed ‘tail up’ and symbolic of the female reproductive organ.
Had you not said that, I’d have been convinced it was a lowercase cursive “L” for “from a Log” 😂
Probably the most comprehensive yet concise video I've seen on milling.
Nice! Thank you!
In Australia S4S is called DAR - Dressed All Round
Despite milling my own lumber for everything I make, I still love simple videos like this that bring it back to basics. Because once you think you know how do something, it'll throw you a curve ball and if you forget your basics, you'll just give yourself a headache lol thanks for the vid JKM!
Thanks my friend!
I really like and respect your work, which is why I was surprised by your order of operation here, as well as omitting discussion of grain direction. Being aware of the direction that the grain runs in helps to avoid tear out. I know you run helical cutter heads on both J and P, so maybe that’s not a concern for you, but someone who’s unaware of milling probably isn’t tuned into the benefits of such cutters. Also, given an awareness of grain direction often requires that jointing and planing occur before squaring an edge.
I’ve been woodworking for 30 years, but I still watch you religiously because there’s always more to know, and you’ll often provide tips that hadn’t occurred to me. Thanks for the work you do!
Great tips. The key is not only getting the boards square, parallel, and flat but keeping them that way. It’s awesome to provide tips to others to set them up for success and save money. 👍🏼
The interesting challenge of building with wood is that movement over time is inevitable, no matter how square and flat it is milled. The design and joinery (whether glue and screws or rabbets or dadoes or … ) counteract, incorporate or direct the movement. Makes those 200 year old pieces of furniture even more amazing.
Not only did I do the most comprehensive video on the subject BUT we also have a web based calculator we made that can calculate wood movement over time anywhere in the world. czcams.com/video/EOr06I9JoAU/video.html
Thanks Jonathan it’s always a pleasure to watch your content
Very informative and wonderful advice/tips. Another example of 2 of the many reasons I follow you and look forward to your videos. Great job 👍👍!!!
Jonathan, I always come away after watching your videos with lots that I didn’t know or had forgotten. Thank you for these great videos. 😊
You guys always do a hell of a job. I always pick up something new every time I watch your lessons. I consider your lessons way above just a video. THANKS
Great video Jonathan, thanks. After I watch it a couple more times I'll feel like I got most of it...
Love your videos so much, would love to meet you someday! You are such an inspiration to so many people!
As always, thank you for your content! so true milling has been something I did not pay much attention to in the beginning until Jason from bourbon moth said once if you want the best glue-ups and joints you have to start milling the best way possible. Ever since I really take my time to mill all my lumber square before doing anything else. Needless to say, your video was super helpful with all the tips and tricks and the important reminder to mill everything perfectly square before we start building anything. Appreciate your time and effort in making this video!!!
Dadgum! I really appreciate your work and knowledge.
Jonathan, thanks for the insight into milling lumber. Please do a video on selecting lumber. What to look out for beyond the cupping and twisting of a board. As example, I’m new to the woodworking ecosystem. I hadn’t thought much about the grain/knots etc until I got home and realized the importance of it for hand-planning.
I always appreciate your instructive techniques. Super nice to have a “shop mentor” at my fingertips. Cheers on your bigger n better building. Big dreams… keep humble.
Thank you my friend!
So very informative! GREAT JOB!
This explains quite a bit of frustration I have had...thank you kindly for this vid!
Really fantastic tips, Jonathan! Thanks a lot! 😃
I need to get over my fear and start messing with my thicknesser/planer. 😬
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Great topic.
Well done, friend. Always great information.
Very informative and useful. Thanks
Thought I knew a little about carpentry. Guess I didn’t. Thank you so much for going back to the basics and the whys and the hows. Greatly appreciate it.
Great video, thanks!
Very helpful tip. Thanks for this video sir.
Very well explained. Thank you
Awesome video!
Very informative, as always! Thx Jonathan
Agreed 💯 👍🏼
Great video
Thanks, great overveiw, review!
Thank you!
I'm working on Walnut dining table and I've been worried about board movement after milling. Thant is until I watched your video, Thanks for the info. I think it will really help.
Good stuff
Very good and comprehensive. Only things I see missing are grain direction conversation & the difference in wood stability by rift-sawn vs quarter vs plain.
All the limber I get in Thailand is High moisture, 35%. I start milling it at 15-20% after air drying. I do cut the wood length into lengths close to final dimensions as I start the air drying
Fantastic video. All of us have run into the "moving wood" situation, and you explain it all very well. It seems softer wood, like pine/fir, have amplified movement issues. Oh, and mis-stored soft woods at the big box stores (even though supposedly kiln dried) will have very significant movement within 12 hours after any kind of milling. Keep up the good work!
Big box stores are the worst, it might be kiln dried at the mill, but my local big box will put it in the yard until they have room in the racks. I have burned better wood as firewood than they sell at full price.
Great video JK-M!
A couple of experiential comments: Never assume your jointer can create a parallel flat on the reverse side after creating a flat on one side. It will be an "oh good grief" moment when you see or measure the result!
Some larger planers - I have a Grizzly 15" planer - have very strong infeed/outfeed rollers with a knurled or knifed anti kickback device, and will leave "knifing" marks in a planed surface. Usually, unless I plan on hand-planing these surfaces, which is almost always regardless, I must consider the depth of cut in the planer in order to avoid knifing marks from the anti-kickback device which are deep enough to require planing below specified dimensions. Particularly true in softer woods!
Sometimes I have to consider when I might want to use a surfaced board after milling. That is, does it make sense to mill the board for use at a later date and deal with potential cupping and other deformations during storage, or mill only what I can use immediately. Often I end up wishing I'd have waited before re-sawing certain boards as the level of cupping developed was beyond the ability to plane it flat.
Always a risk no matter what, though!
Great video. I wish I had a jointer and planer. I buy what I can get from big box stores or a small local lumber shop, and they usually need some work but I have to make do.
Thank you.
Great stuff
Agreed, spot on. 👍🏼
Good information for the novice. What he says is true.
Good video as always.
Maybe it would have been useful for beginners to talk about how grain orientation is important on the jointer and the planer. Cause that can really influence the surface quality.
Cheers.
Yea, I agree 100%. To piggy back on your comment, his order of milling works for 80% of the species, but it should be done as:
1- face joint 1 side
2- face plan opposite side
3- joint edge
4- rip to width
Doing it this way gives you freedom of grain direction when you go to joint the edge. Jointing the edge immediately after jointing the face forces you into 1 direction
Great video! Very informative! However, in my short experience, grain direction matters especially with wood that's highly prone to tear out!
Would you be willing to do a follow-up video on the milling/grain direction, and why you should joint one face, then plane opposed face, before jointing the edge? Doing it that way gives options of grain direction on all 3 sides before ripping the 4th side on the tablesaw
Second comment, apologies. In regards to grain direction, the jointer is "down and out," and the planer is "up and in."
Jonathan, thank you for all you do, I've learned a great deal from your channel!
Solid. One thought for consideration; the final part of the process may be to take a light skim on the jointer to remove any planer snipe if it is beyond what a light sanding can handle or card scraper.
Love it! Unless it’s already there, I would love a video about wood movement. Everyone mentions it and I roughly understand but which species move more than others, etc
When do you need to add a C-channel on a panel? So many questions!
Not only did I do the most comprehensive video on the subject BUT we also have a web based calculator we made that can calculate wood movement over time anywhere in the world. czcams.com/video/EOr06I9JoAU/video.html
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Also I found an oak supplier that had rough cut oak for nearly the same price as pine from the big box store... talk about an upgrade
"jesus fish lookin' thing" so good.
Amen, friend.
Great content as always, Jonathan. I truly appreciate how in-depth you go in your videos. At my school, there's only one instructor with 25+ students, so I find myself learning more on CZcams, haha.
I have a question regarding the use of jointers. Recently, at school I was using one to flatten one side of a board with the cup facing down, picture an upside-down 'U' shape. I managed to get it to lay flat on the table saw, but there was a large hollow section in the middle where the jointer knives didn't hit. Should I continue using the jointer until everything is level? Thanks in advance!!!
Always enjoy your vids. Regarding planing the #2 side, the #1 planed side should have been against the fence to ensure a 90 degree angle
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Looks like it wasn’t milled properly.
It was my editor used the wrong clip
Instead of using the table saw to cut side #4, why wouldn’t you run that side through the planer since it would come out parallel to side #2?
Great videos, it was a little confusing around the 7:32 with the parallel line drawing. Did you want those sharpie lines parallel to each other maybe?
Yeah, they were mirrored, not parallel.
Second that... Drawing was incorrect.
Excellent video, but I don’t have a table saw. Alternate suggestions for side #4? Track saw, router table.
Any suggestions on where a hobbyist can order small amount of rough sawn wood. Have internet but have not been successful. Thanks for all the incredible time and effort you put into making these videos they are all so helpful.
Google hardwood dealers in my area. Sometimes you have to drive a bit but they're around. I have a good one 40 miles south or 100 miles north of me
Rough sawn is usually 1/16” to 1/8” under the marked thickness. At least the ones I have bought so far. After cutting lumber to thinner boards, they tend to move more. Made mistakes like that a few times now.
Exact method I use teaching my student’s, my problem is them remembering it. I have to explain it over and over to some. Other problem is they want to use the 16” jointer with the fence all the way over on a 3” x 18” piece of lumber. We have a 8” jointer. We have a small 13 planer for that use and they want to 20” 10HP planer. Students?
Good video.
7:33 that top line should match the bottom one...and not be flipped "mirror image" like shown. Basically, your board will come out with the top following the contour of the bottom...whatever that may be. Hence the jointer being the 1st step.
You are correct.
Yep. My mistake
Thanks. That drawing was so confusing.
Did you respond to the reply below saying you are one of the short lists winners. I got the same message and called but it said the owner of the google account wasn’t available.
@@rw7532 No, I did not. I've been getting a lot of those lately...last one said I won a DeWalt table saw!
This video explains it VERY well: czcams.com/video/w3QxMFwQAfM/video.html
Beware.
Hey @Jonathan Katz-Moses, at 7:50 when you reference what happens if you plane the board right away.
It will make the opposing face side, parallel to the bottom face, but this means it will just copy the face on the bottom no ?
In your example you mirrored the bottom and top faces but actually the bottom and top face should follow the same line if my understanding is correct :)
Only beginner in woodworking so correct me if i'm wrong.
Good thing the big box stores don’t sell it by the pound. Some of those pine 2x boards are water saturated.
I got lumber from a local mill at 5/4 for 1 1/4" so I think 5/4 and 6/4 is subjective by mill. I learned the hard way not to store the finished wood for long term. The cuping is spot on with resawing. Great tips on Jointer and Thickness Planer, Jon!
The same around here. “Quarter” dimensions are true (5/4 is inch and a quarter, 8/4 is 2 inch). “Inch” dimensions are post-milling nominal (“1 inch” is actually 3/4”). And for big- box lumber shopping - always take a tape measure since big-box lumber varies in nominal thickness. I’m not really sure whether the dimension variation is from speed/carelessness or from the desire to squeeze a bit more lumber (profit) from a log.
Ditto for my hardwood supplier, I went in with the expectation if 4/4 != 1" but surprisingly it is bang on. The boards are pretty clean but not perfect surfaces so there's still some milling to be done (guessing that's why, less work for them, cheaper for me) but that's OK by me.
Good info. Question: how much pressure on the boards when using the jointer?
Great video for a old man starting out…. I have a question…..
If you buy an “S2S” board, is it necessary to joint the face 1st? As I only have a 6” jointer? Thanks.
I just bought a Dewalt 735 planer with the I feed and out feed tables coming in from Amazon in a few days, I’ve looked and look on CZcams about setting those up. Do you set those stables up with the ends slightly higher than the planer bed or do you set the. Up so everything is level from in feed through the planer bed to the out feed? Thank you in advance for your answer.
I sometimes skip the table saw and use the planer for the last two faces depending on the size of the board. Square(ish) or really long boards seem to be easier for me with the planer.
Johathan, great video! One thing that always gets me is the term "Jointer". I'm not sure when it happened, but I believe it was a marketing thing here in the U.S. a while back that was/is used to distinguish between a "Planer" and a "Thickness Planer" for the new or beginner woodworker.
In the rest of the world a “jointer” is called a planer, and a “planer” is called a thicknesser or thickness planer because, it is in fact, a planer and a thickness planer.
Somehow the nomenclature got separated from the actual function of the machines here.
It is only here in the US and Canada, North America in general, that a planer is called a “Jointer” and a thickness planer is called a “planer”? This is very confusing to many that are new to woodworking.
Jointing is typically planing the side edge of a board to an already planed face of a board. Jointing can be done in several ways using different tools, one way is to use a fence as an attachment on a planer (Jointer). Other ways to “Joint” are with a table saw, a router table, or a track saw, etc. I have had to explain this to many people new to woodworking at my local woodworking store that are confused as to the use and function of a “jointer” and “planer”. I don’t care what they are called perse, I have just found it simpler to explain their actual functions separate from their names which has led to many A-ha moments with the people I’m explaining this to.
I know you know this, but explaining this, IMHO, will help people understand what the hell a "Jointer" is, which is actually a planer, that you can joint on. I have found this to be a confusing issue with some new to the sport, and once it is cleared up, we move on to what "Joinery" is. 😎 All the best, Chuck
Any storage tips for keeping thin material flat before finishing? Such as pizza peels or cheese boards?
Jon, I've not heard of clamping after milling before. Seems like it would be the opposite of stickering?
Quick question. I do not have either a jointer or planner at this time. Would I be able to mill down three sides using the planner and the remaining edge with my table saw? Thus the jointer being a smarter purchases as I'm new to the milling process.
How come you cut with the table saw for the last edge instead of running it through the jointer again(3 times) ?? Thanks 😊
I wish you talked about planer snipe! It’s the single biggest problem I have when milling wood at home.
On a jointer, your outfeed bed must be dead even with the cutter edge. On a surface planer, same thing - the rear outfeed rollers and pressure bars need to be even with the cutter head, or your material will come up into the cutter once it is past the front rollers. If you can’t adjust the rollers/pressure bars, make all your material 6” longer. Or get a better planer.
@@stanschmenge1965 All good advice, and I’ve done my best, but I still have issues. Maybe I just need more practice.
@@stanschmenge1965 it's a problem for me too, i've ended up sending sacrifical wood a little ahead and to the side of what i want to plane/thickness.
@@jcarlin I guarantee it’s not you, it’s your planer. “You can’t make chicken salad with chicken sh*t” as the old saying goes.
@@stanschmenge1965 Yeah I figure that's at least some of the problem. But it's a Dewalt DW735 and I see CZcamsrs getting better results with it all the time.
Hey Johnathan, question… I have an 8” jointer but wanting to square off 12x2 board. What would be your process to achieve the same results?
What’s the fine line between clamping milled boards down but also trying to have good air flow all around it? 🤔🤔
FYI your chapter titles are from your chisel video. But great video!
fixed. Thank you
Them charging me for 4/4 when I only get 3/4 reminds me of what I’m seeing in the dimensional/framing lumber industry right now where a 2x6 is only 5 1/8- 5 3/8 “ instead of a true 5 1/2” like they’re supposed to be and advertised. We need to step up the QC and integrity America!!!
My only tip would be to make sure your jointer in particular is slippery and easy to push material through. Trying to muscle wood through is dangerous and I reckon you just get a better result. And I find it ot crazy that there is hardly any videos out on preparing lumber. Seems so important but you hardly ever see me.
Hi, another great explanation video, thanks. Do you have any advice for making furniture that might end up in an area with a significant change in environment (humidity, temp etc).
Check out my video called "is wood movement a myth" we even created a calculator that can calculate exact wood movement anywhere in the world
@@katzmosestools hi, much appreciated, cheers.
Excellent video. I recently bought my first jointer, and am loving the simplicity of getting nice flat surfaces with it. I obtained a bunch of rough cut oak blocks and started running them through the jointer, and flattened them on all 4 sides and it worked perfectly. My question is, is there a reason why you don't just run boards through the jointer on all 4 sides? I don't see why it is necessary to need to use the planer. (at least if you're not trying to reach a specific width across multiple boards. I can see how the planer would be advantageous in that scenario) But if you're just straightening one single board, it seems like the jointer will do exactly what you need. (I also like using the jointer because it is 1000x quieter than the planer. Haha)
The jointer has no way to tell what the top of the board looks like. It can only make the bottom surface flat, and it has no way to mechanically constrain it to force that bottom surface to be parallel to the top. The planer uses the pressure of its feed rollers to mechanically force the bottom surface against a known reference plane, and then the cutter head is mechanically aligned to that plane and cuts a parallel surface. Does that help?
Is there a benefit to using the table saw at step 3 before the planer? That is less material your planer needs to take off. Or is that problematic for some reason?
Good morning Sir, great video as always. Just wondering what digital readout you have are your planer? I have the same planer and the gauge is not accurate at all. Thanks for the information and another great video.
Wixey I think
@@katzmosestools Thank you very much for the information!
I'm already comfortable with all of this but wanted to give you a view with full watch time plus a comment for the algorithm. More woodworkers need to get your channel suggested if CZcams hasn't already suggested it. Thanks for the hardwork on the great informative videos!
@Jonathan Katz-Moses On the last step when you use the table saw to cut that last edge, what blade would you recommend if you had to rip it and leave and edge suitable for jointing.
The rip blades we sell are amazing. For more in watch the saw blade video I did about 6 videos ago. Cheers
I’m confused. At 9:27 I see you running #1 over the jointer. Then at 9:43 I see you doing an edge on the jointer but with side 1 facing out. When you are running side 2 through the jointer shouldn’t side 1 (that you just made flat) be up against the jointer fence??
Just ordered about 80bd ft of 8/4 qtr sawn white oak. Going to be making a pedestal kitchen table. I am having the mill deliver it as s3s.
Do you think someone can simply rip the other side of each board and then do the glue up? Just wondering if you’d trust it, especially at lengths of 8’ and longer. Don’t wanna screw this up lol. By far my biggest build yet. Thanks for the content.
I say exactly that in this video. Can't trust it
How do you know how much to cut off with the table saw?
The first side doesn’t go against the fence when jointing the second side ?
Doesn't the marker soak into the grain, or is this a special wood marker?
Hey Jonathan, how do you usually rip a board to fit your jointer? Many times rough sawn lumber is quite wide from the distributor. Things can get sketchy very quickly depending on how rough the board is. I use my track saw when the faces are flat enough (95% of the time). There have been times that I've been stumped on how to start - maybe a good use for a hand plane in those situations?
Check out my recent jointer video. I show you how to deal with boards wider than your jointer.
Loved the video. It is insane that you didn’t mention snipe though. It’s like a dirty secret nobody wants to acknowledge. Do you just cut the ends off? Curious what professionals do about it, if anything.
Cut the ends off if you get it. Watch the video about planer tuneup in the description. I rarely if ever get it.
@@katzmosestools this one czcams.com/video/qQvaoHN39Qg/video.html Just watched it. He says his melamine add ons are not for counteracting snipe. And in his final thoughts about the planer (looks like the same as yours) he actually recommends against buying it due to the snipe it produces! Are you really living the snipe-free life? I thought it was just a fact of life for every woodworker. I’ll often use short sacrificial boards of pine before and after to avoid snipe. But it’s a pain.
Thanks Jonathan, any tips you have found successful when milling thick, heavy stock? I was working on making some legs for a bed out of 16/4 white oak (approximately a 4"x4") and was having a really tough time on the jointer getting that second edge perpendicular to the first. Either I wasn't getting it pushed up against the fence fully, or the amount of force it took to do so was moving the whole jointer. I only have a 6" jointer so I'm sure something larger and heavier would help but hoping for some new ideas before I get started on the bed for my second child!
I have a great video in the pinned comment
@@katzmosestools Jonathan, please see the message below, I assume this is spam but just wanted to check/notify you since it looks like it does have your CZcams Icon.
I see Tamar from 3x3 using a sled as a substitute for a jointer. Will I get the same result this way? Or this is only in the case my board is "somehow" flat and not totally twisted?
There's a great video linked in the pinned comment and description called 5 ways to joint a board without a jointer
Two questions I've not had good answers for: why not go back to the jointer for face #4 instead of the tablesaw to reduce variability ? What do you do about grain direction when jointing and planing?
I could never get a perfectly parallel edge because there's no reference to the previously jointed edge. I assumed a flat face held against the jointer fence would provide that ref, but I could never get accurate results like you can with a table saw fence directly referencing the jointed edge.
I always pay attention to grain direction when milling to avoid tear out problems, although I do get better results with carbide insert cutter heads rather than HSS blades regardless of the grain direction.
I’m a retired furniture maker from Europe. We always planned #4 parallel to side #2 with the planer, not with a tablesaw.
Taking it back to the jointer would make it flat, but not parallel to the opposite face. With the table saw, the fence is parallel to the blade.
@@danielulrich3314 is there not enough registration of the flat & square edge against the fence?
@@flyfishr64 the jointer will make the face flat, but won't make it parallel to the opposite face. You need a fence that is parallel to a blade to make both faces parallel, like a table saw.
If your wood was the shape of a triangle, the jointer will make every face flat, but not parallel with the other side = a rectangle. Idk if that made sense tho cuz I'm kinda drunk
Something I don't get. If we use a jointer first, besides taking a bit more off using the planer, why not use the jointer on all 4 sides?
👍👍
How do you get the bow out of long boards? My jointer never takes the bow out.
You should watch my jointer videos. You’re probably putting way too much pressure. Cheers
Is mahogany a good wood to work with for an outdoor project?
It is . Cedar and redwood are good too