Cedrus Hydrofoil Mast Review
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2021
- Cedrus Hydrofoil Mast Review
The Project Cedrus mast is a light mast, compatible with many different hydrofoil brands. As front wings expand to serve the need of long distance pumping, mast strength becomes a critical parameter for masts. In some instances, masts are just not rigid enough to support high aspect ratio wings with large wingspans. In this video we review the Cedrus mast on the lake, and explore its stiffness and compatibility with different hydrofoil brands. Foiling NY.
Disclaimer: I was not paid to make this video or paid to promote the Cedrus mast, but I would like to thank MACKite for loaning me a demo mast, so I could review it and share my experience in this video. For a link to this product, please see below:
Mackiteboarding: www.mackiteboarding.com/proje...
Cedrus: projectcedrus.com - Sport
Thank you for testing ❤️
Great work as always, thanks for the review. I hope you are enjoying warmer weather now.
Andrew! Thank you. You have no idea how nice it is to be warm in the water. It's now May and I will take my wetsuit off for the first time this weekend. Our springs are cold in upstate NY.
@@WakeThief Hey, just in case you might have missed this development, have a look at this video (and web site). czcams.com/video/YiB1b1jDO2E/video.html
Could be a remote assist start for catching boat wakes. I know it goes against the human input only ethos but with a floating sized board you would be independant from the dock start requirement! Anyway food for thought.
@@andylitespeed andrew! I love it. I didn’t even know this was in development. I’d love to have something like this mounted close to the board (out of the water while pumping) that could help me get home from those long swims home! Thanks for sharing.
that is what I would have expected, thanks, you are the best
Thanks, Vlad! Good to hear from you.
@@WakeThief I just waiting for my first test in Germany - you know...
how was the distance from the middle for the stiffness test? Thanks
115cm / 2 - 10cm was where I applied the 30lb load.
I think the most important test on carbon masts is torsion. It affects control in carving and is usually the weak point in carbon masts
Yes. That would’ve been a good test too. I will do it next time I test masts. Thank you.
yeah it's too bad we missed this. I can assure you Project Cedrus has been optimized for torsional stiffness as well, and every one of my customers comments on the improved control and quicker turns due to this. Torsional loads in composites are managed best by fibers biased at 45 degrees, and I've optimized the layup to have a good balance of these plies. There is plenty of engineering data over here: projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/sizing-analysis/
Nice review. Given that both masts look to do the same job (for your purposes) it looks like the Axis mast would be the better choice given to the price differential between the two masts. The caveat is that you wouldn't be able to interchange with Axis.
Well said. If you wanted lighter, Cedrus would be a good choice.
i have been wondering if you could do a review of the lift 120 with the 25.
Hi Ryder. I’ve never tried a foil so small! It is certainly worth a try. Let me do some digging. Thank you
Hey wake thief love your channel, found you after you posted the dock start video. I have a question about wings. I’m trying to find compatible wings for my Waydoo efoil, is 2” a standard spacing for a front wing with a 2 holes? 1 3/4” for a 2 hole rear stabilizer? I’ve researched but can’t find what I’m looking for.
Thank you! I never tried Waydoo, so not sure. I doubt it's a standard wing. I think you might have to build an adapter from the Waydoo fuse or front wing mounts to the a wing of your choice.
@@WakeThief that could be possible, there is a removable insert on the fuselage nose. Is there a standard across brands for hole spacing or does each brand have different spacing?
Each brand is unique … unfortunately.
Are there any adapter possible for Armstrong foils?
I don’t see it on the latest list from their website. Please email Kyle to ask. He might very well develop it. projectcedrus.com/compatibility/
can you revew the lift 120 with the 25
Yes. Will take a closer look at this and see what I can do
Alright that’s cool and all, but did it keep you warm out there?
Lol. I have a good wetsuit. Your head just can’t go under the water.
I really like your videos. Tempted on buying an Axis foil but the local shop doesn't carry them. I am looking at the Moses (Sab foil) 1100 set up. Any experience with that particular foil?
Hey Serge - Where are you located? I have not tried the Moses 1100, but it's on my to test list!
@@WakeThief I am living in Vancouver, Canada.
@@sergemann5951 I grew up in SK! Pls email me if I can ever be helpful to you. Wakethief@icloud.com
I think the way that you did the stiffness test is reasonable even though it includes the mast and the wing together. However, I think it would have helped to test just the mast deflection. Was all of the deflection in the wing itself at that load? If the total deflection was due to some deflection in the wing and some deflection in the mast, then if you're testing two different length masts, that means that the mast stiffness is disguised a little. For example if the deflection of the the wing tip is the same but one mast is longer, then the longer mast is stiffer than the shorter mast.
You're exactly right. Both are 75cm masts (branded) but the Cedrus is 4cm longer. Within my measurement error (use of a video), I think they were similar. You're right, this is total deflection of everything (wing/fuselage/mast/baseplate), but the wing/fuselage was the same in each test. This was total system deflection which is what I am interested in. I think you're right. Deflection comes from wing, wing/fuse connection, mast/fuse connection, mast, etc. If we wanted to isolate contribution of each it would be hard, but thankfully we care about the whole deflection from all parts. I appreciate the thoughtful comment / question, Brian. Thank you.
@@WakeThief I assumed that you were looking for total system deflection, and I hope my comment didn't seem critical. I very much enjoy your thoughtful, informative and well-produced videos. You deserve a much larger audience, which I assume will come in time.
If I got this right, you applied a torque of about 30lbs x (75/2 - 10)cm = 825 cm-lbs = 27 ft-lbs. I only have the Slingshot 90 cm mast to go by, but I don't think the mast itself would deflect measurably under that load ( I could be wrong). So, that's why I asked the question. I'm wondering if the deflection is really coming from the wing, or more likely the connections and that's why you didn't see a difference between masts?
Awesome question! Certainly did not take it as critical. I love your interest in this. Your math is right, except its' 115/2 instead 75/2 as span is 115cm. Under even less load than this (I also tested 40lb) you can see the mast deflect. Without a doubt, the deflection comes from more than the mast too (all the mentioned connections) and maybe even the wing. It's hard to isolate no doubt, but that's ok, because I want the least possible deflection no matter how it's caused. That answer probably isn't helpful to foil designers, however, as I'm not exactly sure where they should target first. I get your point though. If I wasn't seeing the mast deflect while I was doing this test, I would ask the same question you're asking. I should've shown it!
@@briansangeorzan4986 Hey Brian, you're right that we are measuring stiffness of the system but considering the wings and fuselage are the same and both, it is fair to assume any differences are due to mast stiffness. The adapters and connections are all very rigid. A foil mast is loaded by an eccentric axial load, which induces compression and a moment. It's a pretty complex loadcase, often very misunderstood by home builders and large brands alike. While more commonly done, you can't simply just bolt a mast to a wall and push on the end (cantilever beam) as this is not how they are loaded in use and puts max moment at the mount as opposed to a constant moment throughout the mast. I can assure you the slingshot mast subjected to the same bending moment and compression load would deflect much more, I've simulated them in FEA, , and ridden them, and they are not nearly as stiff as Axis or Cedrus.
@@WakeThief I forgot one more thing. The rate of change of lift with angle of attack is higher for the high aspect foils not because they are high aspect, but because the lower aspect wings typically have swept back leading edges. I high aspect wing with swept back leading edges would behave more like the lower aspect wings.
I am having a hard time seeing how the wing and therefore a mast will see only one side of the front foil be loaded 30kg or 66 lbs more than the other side unless in a hard accelerating bank turn. in a straight line pumping the port and starboard sides of the front foil should experience the same forces.
I think you’re right. When pumping in a straight line, imperfections in my technique are probably 5lb wingtip loads. It is important to be able to pump while carving and even in that scenario It’s not likely 30lb, but I’m not really sure what the right load would be. Thanks for the thoughtful comment.
... great idea, a brand-adapter, but not shure, if it’s legal
there is nothing illegal about this. In some cases, brands were generous enough to actually share CAD with me to design adapters. Carbon mast/fuselage interface is largely based on the Tuttle fin design concept, which has been around for decades.
@@kylelobisser4736 many thanks for your response and congratulation, it is a great idea to make an adapter
Ups... This is not the video you've promised last week. What's about foil launcher?
In the works! We had a breakthrough with the foil launcher, and made some changes. I hope the extra week will be worth the delay, and the pivot we're taking :)