Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 vs BMW M2 CS - Head to Head Review!
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2023
- It's the battle of the 6 cylinder, 6 figure, manual RWD German sports cars! For some time, I've considered the 718 GT4 to be the gold standard driving experience. Can the M2 CS, which is the ultimate version of the F87 chassis, really give the mid-engined masterpiece a run for its money?
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Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com - Auta a dopravní prostředky
man you have an unlimited supply of Porsche GT4s 😂
Bay Area has LOTS of money for cool cars.
Every other weekend is a GT4 comparison 😂 he moved from the S2k guy to the GT4 guy at this rate hahaha
I don't go looking for them, they find me!! 😂
@@gravity45b Whats the next step!? 720S guy!!!?
What a nice problem to have
M2CS will go down as one of the greatest M cars. I just wish they weren’t so expensive :/
Honestly I subscribe to pretty much every “journalist” there is. You’re pretty much at the top of my list when it comes to truly speaking about the key points of what a driver really wants. Keep these videos coming man. I eat them up. Been with you since you were at 5k! Let’s go.
Thanks for being a long timer!
Totally agree. I was going to write a similar comment. Keep it up @Zygrene, this is top notch content
I have an m2 cs DCT, I absolutely love it for the same reasons you gave here, having driven it back to back against the new g87 i couldn’t believe how much they lost of the feel and liveliness in the new one, the steering is the best i’ve experienced in a modern BMW, brakes amazing and the DCT is just ballistic for the road or track
I had a GT4 for a couple years and pretty much stopped driving it outside of track days/weekends because it really just wasn't that much fun on public roads. If anything, it was borderline tedious because of how high the limits are and how aggressive the inputs are--the car entices you to drive harder, and you can't (safely, let alone legally). The theatrics are very exciting at first, but the novelty fades out quickly. Obviously sublime on track where it belongs, but that's a very seasonal thing where I live. I would choose the Boxster Spyder (especially the 987 or 981) if I went in this direction again.
Great comment. Off to the BRZ/miata mobile 😂
Agree, had one felt the same way. Chopped it quickly. Engine has no fireworks as well. Kinda boring car tbh.
Sad how true this is. I’ve been dailying an AP2 S2K that I picked up and that’s been so much more enjoyable on public roads. Love my GT4 but it gets a lot of annoying attention and like you said, can’t be driven how it begs to be unless you want to be THAT guy. Also, imo, it really needs a set of headers and the short gearing to get the most of it and that adds another 20k to the already high cost.
I’m really wanting to get a 997 or 991 C4S with a stick to daily as I think it would be so much more fun and useable on road.
M2CS seems sweet, just too much money for what it is to me but that’s coming from a guy who hasn’t driven one. Glad they exist.
@@IIVVX Engine is great compared to 99 percent of cars imo just doesn’t quite do enough when you know the GT3 and it’s engine exists.
@@dsher503ya the problem is I’ve driven a GT3 so now pretty much any engine seems inferior.
Great match up. The M2 is undoubtedly the best sportscar to have fun and drive daily. It gives you all the thrill with four seats and a trunk making it easier to live with.
The Cayman gt4 is just a weapon. It shrugs off any corner that is not driven past 8/10ths pace which will undoubtedly get you in trouble unless you are on the track. I think the boxter version makes more sense to me as a sportscar so you can hear that wonderful boxer engine.
Had just searched for this direct review and to my surprise was uploaded 20 minutes ago. Great video !
Such good timing
Great comparison review, The M2 CS would be my pick (if I had the money for one lol). Also: Thanks for always focusing on steering feel, I literally want to hear about the steering in any car I'm watching a review for
Excellent comparison! Thanks for this combo
A very good and down to earth review of the two. Seems like you've gained a lot more perspective by driving more GT4s too.
Great review Fenton. You called out something very critical that I don't hear many people say when discussing the GT4. When I went from 718 GT4 to 991.2 GT3, the immediate thing i noticed was that the GT3 felt way more alive at any RPM. even from 3-5k, the car has such a unique character that makes it fun to drive slow. I didn't find that as much in the GT4, just my 2 cents.
The 991.2 GT3 engine makes the GT4 engine feel outright dull
@@Zygrene agreed, which is why the GT4RS is such a tasty proposition though insanely pricey.
GT series seems like a castrated version of RS, which is a castrated version of Cup. Multimatic only make suspension of Cup3s. Gt4 is like the og M2 in its hierarchy.
Great review! I’ve actually owned both of these cars at the same time for a while. GT4 has been sold to make room for my GT4 RS that it’s coming in for months. I still have the M2 CS. I do agree with your overall assessment for sure. M2 CS is definitely livelier. My car is DCT and it has been modified. Now I have stiffer suspension and a 520 hp tune plus midpipe and muffler upgrade. It is an absolute riot to drive!
Your analytical approach to these comparisons is second-to-none. Super interesting comparison, and lacking the blind "Porsche is always better" attitude (thank you). That being said, I'd love to see an M2 CS/comp vs Carrera T comparison. I think that would be another, possibly even more, compelling matchup.
Thanks for another excellent comparison review from the Zyguy. As a 718 GT4 driver I agree with all your opinions on that car except that it lacks something when driven more sedately. Even when pootling around I enjoy the precision of the inputs and attention to details the Porsche engineers have worked hard at. As well, the NA engine's response speaks for itself versus forced induction, especially when not flogging it. I haven't driven a CS but the other turbocharged Bimmers I have were no where near as special as this Porsche regardless of how hard they are driven. There ain't nothin' wrong with clinical!
Nice one really enjoying these H2H reviews
Good stuff! I kind of predicted you'd like the M2CS more based on your prior H2H of the M2C vs Cayman GTS 4.0...
Impressive driving !
Great review
First time watching your channel. Great review. I have the M2 CS but without the CCBs. Absolutely love it. More fun to drive on public roads than other cars I’ve driven that cost 2-3X.
That said there are no losers here, I’d love to put a GT4 next to the CS in my garage.
Great review!
Fenton mate always delivering the best comparison
I did exactly that. Bought m2 comp as new and threw 30k € at it with all the carbon M-performance parts, coils, exhaust and light forged wheels. Its a proper weapon. 0 regrets for not getting a CS.
Have an OG M2 and test drove a ton of Caymans of different varieties. I agree on all points. I recently split the difference by buying a 991.1 Carrera. It's the precision and purposefulness of the Cayman with the playfulness, drama and fun of the M2. Best of both worlds!
Great comparison ! It'd be interesting to see the M2 CS compared with the BMW 1M as well.
That would be fun. Need to find a 1M
Can't compare an old N54 with the S55. One is far superior than the other.
I feel like every video I see comparing a 2-series (or really any BMW) to a Cayman has the Porsche coming out on top, so it's interesting to see one that bucks the trend.
It's because there is a real difference in CS vs normal Comp in BMW's and that's where the emotion comes in vs Porsche or BMW comps
Did you try Comfort steering? I find it more playful and natural than Sport+, at least in my F80.
I have a 981 gt4, but now I want the latest m2.
I enjoy your comparisons, most honest out there than most reviews by people like Joe Achilles, Chris Harris that ll always go with the new thing pushed by car manufacturers.
Question for ya, What would be a better car for autocross, A stock GT4 at $140k or a $52k plus $12k worth upgrades, Ohlins Coilovers, Sway bars, GT3 lower control arms, lightweight wheels, Antigravity Battery, Soul Exhaust?
Thank you my friend
981 GT4 is where the real fun is at
Random question here. Hypothetically, what would you be willing to swap your NSX for? As in no money exchanged straight swap (realistically speaking).
Lol I've thought about this many times. Maybe a 997.2 GT3 but the NSX still feels more special to me. But I recognize that I'm biased.
Thanks for the awesome review! I am a previous owner of a «Normal» M2 with the N55 and I really loved that engine with regards to the response and the sound. Does the s55 feel more laggy compared to the N55 and how would you rate the sound of these engines?
S55 is definitely a lot laggier than N55, but the top end is addicting. It also sounds better to my ear. More of that straight six rasp.
N55 has more low end torque but way less mid and high end HP and Torque. S55 in CS above 3k is way more responsive, refined, buttery surge of torque vs N55. S55 in M2C is a bit spikey at low rpm which makes it difficult to modulate throttle in low speed corners. N55 has the best sound, no question. To me N55 is a nice intro BMW engine but it doesn't drive like a true M engine.
@@Zygrene thanks for your reply!
Nice review! I recently bought a GT4, M2CS was also on the list (with Emira, A110s and some others), i think i made the right choice (for my taste definitely). Whatever you pick you will not regret, its rather a question personal preference!
Were you able to drive the M2CS before you went GT4?
@@Hapkin not the cs but the m2 comp, it is big and heavy for me(like 250kg more vs gt4). I prefer smaller, lighter cars and the high revving n/a engine. Gt4 is just way more special for me.
@@takkr1979 that's fair. My other car is a modded R56 Mini and in line for Emira but the CS drives way lighter than the Comp due to 42 pounds less unsprung weight with Carbon ceramics and significantly lighter wheels vs Comp. Also, with a simple alignment it drives even better. I have driven these exact cars in the video extensively now. The front end of the M2CS is simply better, more agile more grip, no understeer vs the GT4. The GT4 rotates like a mid engined car but the oversteer of the M2CS is far more fun and helps you around corners, then the 100lb-ft +- increase in torque vs GT4 rockets you out. It's a joy. Both fantastic cars though.
@@Hapkin you can adjust the rollbars of the gt4 and turn-in will improve significantly. (And yes, gt4 will never be as "tailhappy" as m2) Carbon ceramics are no go for me due to cost, i rather spend that money on tires and fuel.
Nice review! I was actually shocked at how lame both cars sounded, like totally synthetic. As a sanity check, I then watched the Cayman GT4 on savage geese (a channel known for high end sound/video quality), and… the Cayman GT4 sounded really synthetic there too.
The 981 GT4 sounds a million times better.
hey you review anything else besides porches and bmw anymore?
As an owner of a M2cs, I agree that it is a lot of fun to drive. You should feel the M2cs with a tune... ;-)
Which tune did you go with?
Fun fact: steering feel in the M2 CS is due to the ceramic brakes, lightweight forged wheels and the tires. It has the same EPS and tune as the M2 Comp. M2 Comp doesn't have the forged wheels, Cup 2 tires or ceramic brakes. You can improve the steering feel even further by getting some coilovers and doing the M4 GTS steering wheel feedback tune.
From my understanding, the 788m wheels that come on the M2 comp are forged but not as light as the 763m wheels on the m2 cs. Everything else you said is on point tho
@@FreeYSLM2 Yeah that's true. I have the M2 Comp and the wheels are forged but not as light as the ones on the CS
Also the structural carbon roof contributes to better steering feel and torsional rigidity.
@@Hapkin Not really. All it does is provide a lower center of gravity. It doesn't improve steering feel
@@Unicornpirateincorrect.
mid-engined watercooled Porsches are so composed that you have to take away grip to make them playful on the street. I'm running a 205 square setup on my 986S, it's better that way
I find my 911 Turbo S a bit plain and sterile. I have a Cayman R that is amazing. Really slow against the Turbo S. But if I had to sell one it would be the Turbo S and keep the R. I'm trying to talk myself into a GT4 in a PTS. Hard to find the odd colors.
m2c or gr supra mt ?
A wee over 3400 would be og m2; CS is like 3550 🙃
The steering is just software, so are dtc and LSD differences between the versions of m2, so you can program whichever version on whichever car.
CCB's and structural (not just aesthetic M Performance) carbon roof makes the steering feel much better than. The M2C and hard/impossible to replicate on the M2C.
Well stated, Fenton. Every time I drive a GT4 on the track, I fall in love, but every time I drive it on the street, I’m a bit bored. My M2C offers so much play on the road, but lacks the surgical nature of the GT4 on track. I love the M2 on track, but it’s not a P car in terms of solidity, chassis, and mechanical grip. I’m determined to keep the M2C, but to add the GT4 soon enough. I see you ditched the BRZ. I just tracked mine for the first time yesterday and within five laps (ambient temps above 100) at only a moderate pace I was seeing mid-250s oil temp WITH my Jackson radiator/oil cooler. Makes me awfully tempted for a P car! Have you tracked the Type S yet?
Tracking the Type S in late September!
Sweet! Sonoma?
Hey, the M2 CS is a track monster. I couldn't believe how much top end it has that can't be explored on the road. It's noticeably better than the M2CS due to software top end tune as well as carbon ceramics and adaptive suspension. (This is my car btw that @zygrene tested). Happy to answer questions.
Good to hear! I’m shy to pay the premium for the CS, but I’ve never driven a tuned or CS F87. I’d love to try the ceramics too. The 2NH caliper is a sore point for me. Prevents use of 18” wheels, has bad pad knockback, and has mediocre factory rotors. Are you running the OEM charge cooler and pipes? Any issues with heat management? Knockback on the calipers?
M2 CS for sure❤
I’d go GTS 4.0.
Compared to both of these cars, the GTS 4.0 is boring. I have driven all of them.
Yep the GT4 is just too hard riding for the road - can’t believe the reviewer here (very weirdly) even put the dampers into track mode - that’ll make you slower as the car skips over every joint and imperfection in the road surface. GTS is a much better riding and nicer to drive.
I wonder if GT4 feels clinical because of the long gears. Not enough torque to overcome grip and not shifting often enough. 3rd often looked too low rpm 2nd too high.
Yes, the long gearing definitely doesn't help. Short gears would make street driving much more exciting, I think.
Yes it also lacks torque low down. I just drove my friends GT4RS and it has the GT3 PDK gearing and is way more fun at low rpms and speeds than the GT4 which you have to rev out to 8k to enjoy.
If I MUST spend 100K, I'd get a 981 GT4. But I rather get a well spec'ed 981 Cayman S Manual for $55K, with the savings add a $25K S2000 to the stable, and put the remainder of the money in a Roth IRA :)
Next video: 2023 Roth IRA vs 2024 Porsche GT4 RS
@@Zygrene 😂😂😂🤣🤣 winner!
981 GT4 sounds better, and I like the look of it better than the 718 GT4 in profile and rear, but both aren't as much fun on the road vs M2CS haven driven all three of them. (I own the M2CS in the video).
If you are shopping for 100k cars you likely are outside ROTH contribution income limits. Backdoor + M2C + couple years of trackdays and consumables.
@@kyletice811Yes, that's the smart thing to do; one probably shouldn't be buying a 100K car if s/he still has not yet reached the front door Roth income limits (exceptions apply---having the excess cash). In the US, however, one would be surprised with how many are financing (50K to 100K USD cars) when they shouldn't.I think there is real value in Zygrene doing a video on the topic.
Both great looking cars and some of the best designs on the road, but I have a 718 GT4 and you nailed the lack of personality. It's pretty uninteresting to just putt around when you're not going fast. The car doesn't really have a sense of humor. Quite unlike my 996 Turbo which can't come close to the GT4 in the canyons but is interesting to drive at any speed. You were talking in a more recent video about replacing the NSX, and you said you didn't care for the 996 GT3 you drove. But I'm not sure there's much more special for the price than a Mezger 996 or 997 (though the GT3s are quite expensive now). I wonder if a RWD converted track setup 996 Turbo would ever scratch the itch.
Stop. M2 CS is an 70-80k car, nowhere close to 100k. The gt4 is 120k-140, it's literally 1.5-2x the price.
Nothing compares with Porsches lol
…Or an e92 M3 with £15k thrown at it….
M2CS is more like 80k - 105k depending on spec and miles.
This specific spec is over 100k. Only 11 of them in the country in Hockenheim Silver, manual with CCB's and gold wheels.
I struggle with the M2. The car is pretty high, it doesn't have that sports car vibe. All the primary controls lack precision and feel. The engine has great thrust, but again lacks precision and feels like a pretty generic modern turbo lump in most regards. It's good at doing skids, but the chassis isn't hugely precise or composed. While the GT4 is probably too much for the road with its huge tyres, there are other Cayman options that give you the great primary controls and sorted chassis with lower limits and more engagement at lower speeds. You could run something like a 987.2 3.4 on the base 17 inch wheels to really wake the chassis up. There are lots of options up to $100k and an M2 wouldn't make my shortlist. It's a goo car, but it does not give me the sense of a genuine driver's car.
What list would that be?
718 is always the answer
BMW does better steering than a Porsche? Not a chance!
That's where you are wrong. The M2CS definitively has better steering. Glad Zygrene mentioned it. Notable improvement over the M2C.
@@Hapkin better steering than an M2C no doubt. Better than a Porsche? Highly unlikely but may depend on which model you put it up against. Macan?
@@martinocorbelli3042 nope. It's better. I just drove a Cayman GTS 4.0 as did the owner back to back with the M2CS. We both agreed that the M2CS has better steering. I have no problems saying the M2CS has worse steering compared to a Lotus, which I have on order for that very reason btw, but compared to the EPAS system on the Cayman the CS is better.
@@Hapkin ok, well I’ll have to take your word on that since I haven’t tried them back to back myself. I’m surprised but pleased to note BMW pulled their finger out on the M2 CS. It’s a shame they reserved such treatment for the top spec and most expensive version. They should have made the standard car steer like that IMO
@@martinocorbelli3042 💯. Comp built to a tighter price. CS they had some liberty to build on passion. Good news is that the Comp.can be modded to 99% of CS in feel but at the expense of NVH.
Talking bollocks mate. No M2 is ever going to compare to a GT4. And yes, I own both.
M2CS > GT4
Too much waffling and cliche for me. If we just stopped talking so much about how the car sounds and making polar moment of inertia comments , bet he doesn’t even know the formula for it LOL
Paola’s envious.
The clue that he doesn’t fully understand what he’s doing is that he immediately puts the GT4 suspension into it’s harder mode. It’s widely recognised that even in its softer mode the GT4 suspension is too firm for any road that isn’t perfectly smooth and the car skips around losing grip.
@@neilturner6749 also talking about the car moving around because "ps4s tires can't handle this caliber of car, I'm just so used to driving it on Cup 2s" 🙄 The car was jumping around because the road wasn't smooth and the GT4 is stiff AF. Nothing to do with tires in the situation he's describing