Sanyo 18650GA Thermal Camera Discharge Test - HOW HOT?!
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- čas přidán 8. 01. 2018
- Learn how to make your own battery with my book DIY Lithium Batteries: amzn.to/2jbxvzS or check out my second book - The Ultimate DIY Ebike Guide: amzn.to/2BGx4Fn
The gear I use for my videos:
Camera - Nikon D5300: amzn.to/2DcuVlM
Lens - Tamron 18mm - 270mm: amzn.to/2qLZlsG
Thermal camera for iPhone/Android: amzn.to/2FikWvW
Parts that I use:
48V 14.5 Ah Hailong (shark) battery: goo.gl/jg429Z
36V 11 Ah bottle battery: goo.gl/Snja5H
All ebike batteries: goo.gl/FLC3cK
All 18650 cells: goo.gl/hYWnwU
Bafang BBS01 kit: goo.gl/6wi43g
Bafang BBS02 kit: goo.gl/GWLRxo
Bafang BBSHD kit: goo.gl/LgtBry
100W Flexible solar panel: goo.gl/dQPhQX
18650 cells: goo.gl/hYWnwU
18650 positive insulating washer: goo.gl/HBVOuc
Nickel strip: goo.gl/VIrNQq
Spot welder: goo.gl/KN3Uaw
BMSs: goo.gl/S6gSQx
Silicone wire: goo.gl/xmpbKD
Black 18650 cell spacers: goo.gl/hQxWF6
Vruzend cell spacers: goo.gl/5ReLqA
Large heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/6v1ow9
Small heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/OU3Z6u
Foam sheet for protecting battery: goo.gl/5e71tE
Kapton tape: goo.gl/D6BT57
Chargers: goo.gl/js0T0V
350W hubmotor: goo.gl/K1mYvR
36V/48V controllers I used: goo.gl/nJBnJP
Throttle: goo.gl/UebsNC
Cycle Analyst: amzn.to/2CIKIIe
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Interesting video Micah, thank you and happy new year! I would like to see a video about your take on hub drive vs mid motor DIY.
thanks for sharing this test. Very helpful for us hobby types who do not have all the gear or ability. Thanks again John
Great video. I'd love to see your take on ideas and concepts that could be used to cool 18650 cells.
Loud horn and Bright lights saves Lives keep up the good work realy like the stealth look of the bike.
Awesome test, please keep videos like this coming. I'd love to see a comparison of "high" capacity (lets say greater than 3Ah) vs "low" capacity (1.5 to 2Ah) temperature curves for equivalent discharge rates.
We were talking about making videos testing these cells the other day and you actually made a great video!! Hahaaaa... AWESOME mate...
great video. Missed your videos. It has been sometime since you uploaded.
Thanks for the video. I found exactly what all I had been searching all this while. Really, thanks a lot!
Hi Micah, i've just purchased 180 Samsung 30Q cells for a 20s 9p build. I would love to see a temperature test of these cells. My pack will be enclosed in a NYX carbon fibre frame with no air circulation so it is critical for me to see how the cells will perform.
Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and time devoted to ebiking. Andrew
Great video. I will be curious to know how 21700 cells behaves at maximum continuous discharge at 15A.
Looking forward to more testing!
I've been riding ebikes now for a little over 2 years now. The first year I was using SLA batts and was going thru them like a bag of Doritos. I decided to layout the cash for a VPower 48v 20ah Li-Ion batt( these things are built very poorly) after reading they should last a couple of years if properly taken care of. Well it has lasted a year and now and it's giving me problems. Now I'm going to build my own. Started my research and found your videos very informative(I'm now a subscriber). I now have everything for the build and would like your input on the use of a BMS. I saw Shawn McCarty's video "How to build a safe and better lithium battery WITHOUT a BMS" and would like to hear your view on this video with such a large pack.
I hope this topic is interesting enough to snag a free copy of your new book, especially when I attempt to do a triangle in the very near future. Thanks Micah.
Troy
Yay! You’re back for 2018.
Great video. A similar heat test on the Samsung INR18650-25R batteries would be awesome. Thanks.
Would be great to see the test in a LG M26 cell and in a Panasonic PF. Thanks Micah
electrically it's called derating. We derate cables when ran together.. only natural to derate batteries a well.
Nice vid!! thumbs upped
Very interesting! 60c at 8amps. looking forward to the Samsung 30Q 25r tests.. would really like to see how well the 29e does as i think it's underrated! Lots still use the PF2900 too...
I know these are older batteries, but I would like to see an "NCR18650B" or an "LG HB2". I still have some new ones(or never used) and thinking of adding them both to some high current project based on the max discharge rate-Not completely, but often. Would like to also see an update to your DIY Discharger(see if you made any improvements). Just watched that video. Great Stuff!
Hi Micah. Thank you so much for your great videos! They are all really so useful! Can we say the result of this video is you kind of don't recommend to use Sanyo 18650GA cells for DIY battery packs? Did you choose a Li-Ion cell just randomly or your choice was specifically "Sanyo 18650GA" because it heats more than the other options and you wanted to show us this? I was thinking of building my DIY Ebike battery pack and planning to use Sanyo 18650GA (3500Ah - 10A) or Panasonic 18650B (3400A - 2C) cells. Actually, Sanyo 18650GA was my favourite and I was going to use that because of more capacity and almost two times higher maximum continuous discharge current than Panasonic18650B. But since I watched your this video and read some of the comments I am a little confused and decided to review my chosen cells before I order. I really would appreciate you if can answer me. If I use Sanyo 18650GA cells for a big battery pack like 14S 8P or 14S 6P, do you think still it would heat a lot when my Bafang BBSHD motor work at 30A? Or each cell would output less Amp because of more parallel in a big battery pack and heat less than how much heats on your test?
hey mike. happy new years🎉🎆
Great video Mika.
Great video! Id be interested in seeing how the max discharge rate ( based on temp rating) changes for batteires arranged in a pack. I think it would be useful for a lot of pack designers out there.
Yes this is a test I want to do. Next time I build a battery pac I'll discharge it under a thermal camera for a video.
Very interesting ..awesome info .. big thanks Mike
Great video. So how do you calcule the maximun amperaje rate that you can run a battery pack without measure the temp?
Could you test a Samsung 35E cell. Enjoying your sites, learning a lot . Thank you.
You really know your stuff! Thanks for sharing!
Great info. Keep the videos coming. Dan
I should probably buy your book, as I have failed many battery builds...
Need some help/advice!
I was charging 4 INR18650-30Q 3000mah 20A batteries in a regular charger (XTAR VC4) and one battery started to smoke and got really hot. Any idea what it could be? I threw away the battery but I'm afraid to charge the other ones again....
Great info, I have these cells in a 14s 5p configuration.. Lots of POWEEEEEER!!
Do they heat a lot Max when you use it at a high amps?
Nice video! You always give informative information
Thanks!
Nice info! Thanks. I experienced Sanyo batteries gets heated up while charging as well. Rated amp charger but still these battery temperature are more than samsung or LG. Any idea on this ?
well, someone stole the show! good video as usual!
Excellent test. Tks for sharing.
Hi Micah,
What about fuses? I am thinking of building a 10s5p 10Ah pack for my bike from used notebook cells. Because of the risk of used cells I don't want to weld the nickel strip right onto the cells. I want to use some kind of fuse to make sure a faulty cell won't kill my entire pack. Would a 36 swg (can carry 5A) fuse wire make it? My controller pulls max 7A out of my pack. If I am right 5x5A=25A would be the max that I can pull out of my pack with this wire fuse. Can you confirm my theory? Thank you! BTW, I'ts one of my favorite channel inconnection of DIY battery pack. Keep up the good work!
Br,
Adam.
Can you test the effect of using hot glue on cells. Many of us use it to build our packs and I wonder if it damages the cells or not. Also if you can test with different hot glues at different temperatures.
Wouldn't it be better to take off the wraps from the cells during the test?
IMO those wraps isolate the heat and the actual temperature inside the cells might be higher than measured.
I`d really want to see a Sony VTC4 test. They are rated to 30 Amps!
Your dog is a distraction, not the numbers.
Like the video👍🏻
Nice Vedio...Very informative and simple testing
Is it possible to make a 48v triangle pack 52v without going into the pack itself?
What setup did u use to control the amps? Im trying to test the temperature of LG HG2 for a school project
As usual nice video. Confirming what most of us already suspected, that manufacturers overrate their product, in this case only slightly as opposed to some who ridiculously overrate their cells.
I know the INR 21700 - 48G Samsung is not rated for high amp draw. But have you tried testing any of these cells? If not would you care to give them a go in this test? I am currently testing a few cells for my desired e-trike battery.
Yes I picked up one of these cells to do this test on it, so I'll be posting that video in the next few weeks once I can do the test.
a max capacity is based on perfect conditions in all operations, Ie Max capacity is how much the battery can produce when you have low discharge, where most of the power is not lost to heat/resistance, The Amp rating is the maximum raiting it can hit peak anything above and it will hurt internally possibly perforating its inner shell to create microscopic perforations that will cause the battery to start self discharging, the max 60C temperature is for continuous use, you could have cooling on it and it would be possible to use this battery at 10Amp but its cycle rating is also used at its optimal charge/discharge so day 0.3Amps-0.5amps you can discharge/charge it a 2000times not putting it all the way to the bottom or over the top. once you reach the minimum voltage and maximum voltage your already hurting the battery. if you think the battery is going to last 2000 cycles from 4.20V to 2.5V 2000 times at 10Amp discharge then your living in a dream world, its the same with your phone your battery will life is going to be many times as long if you charge it before its empty, and charge it with 0.5-1Amp instead of the fast chargers. my phone is 4 years old and i only charge the battery slowly and its still lasts 36hours from its original 48hours. while family members who had the same phone used the fast chargers and have replaced their phone 3times in that time and every single one of them have had a shorter battery life in less than half a year because they fast charge.
Great video and thanks to let me know.
I'm trying to make a heater that is 35c to 40c by heating up a watch battery
Can you give me some suggestions
I read batteries are 5c to.45c when charging
I believe if keep a watch battery at that temperature it will stay that heat forever
Please share your expertise
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with my questions. I'm looking at buying a new battery for my 1500w ebike. My controller's max current draw is 40A - so I need a battery with at least a current output of 40A. I'm finding it very difficult to find one as there is different information regarding Amps / Current output.
Some listings I'm looking at talk about:
-Rated Discharge Current (A)
-Instantaneous Maximum Discharge Current (A)
-Maximum Continuous Discharge Current (A)
-Maximum Continuous Charge Current (A)
What is the difference between all of these?
Also, when looking at chargers, what current should be chosen?
On the listing for the battery, it says Standard Charge Current is 2 amps, but Fast Charge Current is 5 amps.
Can I go above 5 amps to make my battery charge even faster?
Help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks :D
Hi Michah, great videos and books! Two questions, is there a need to add a fuse to the battery-pack or does the bms acts as a fuse ? I Found soldering on the nikkelstrip difficult. Do have tips on solderthickness, type of solder... Grt, Stijn
It depends on the scenario. If your load could short, its a good idea to add a fuse in addition to the BMS. The BMS should be a first line of defense, but it is much easier to replace a blown fuse than a blown BMS.
where can i buy those sanyo cells? please awnser im in a bit hurry
do the 20700 version of the same cell please
Cool vid, thanks!
Great Video!
18650 hot when charging are still worthy?
If I bought a dolphin(ish) battery and the cells in it are rated for 10 A max, wihle the pack is 4s14p, if theorie every cell would need to supply 7,5 A, if I want to drain 30 A form the battery. Will the cells (in the middle) overheat if I do that ?
I am also wondering the answer of your question as I am thinking of building a 14S 8P or 14S 6P battery by using these cells (Sanyo 18650GA). I hope someone answer this question. Or did you get any answer from someone else? Thank you.
Great videos, awesome channel. Question, I'm building a DIY powerwall. I'm utilizing multiple S13 48V packs to get to 144V, so there's 3 packs in series. I want to utilize a 48V bms on each pack, how do I wire multiple bms units in series?
First install a BMS on each pack, so you have three completed 48V packs with one BMS each. Then you’ll simply wire the three packs in series. That way each BMS only handles its own pack.
Very cool, is it simple as that? Would the charge connectors be wired in series as well? No need for diodes? Thanks again.
Interesting linear relationship: 20C per 4A.
you built an 18650ga in DIY Lithium Battery - Spot Welding - Part 2/5. How potentially hot would that get as a pack?
Good question. I don't have that battery anymore but I plan to do a discharge test on another pack using the thermal camera to check it.
Test Samsung ICR1865026-J M SDIEM THY1.
Because i can not find this cell' data sheet.
Hi man! I use to watch your videos they are great! Im glad we can have people like you to be able to learn about ebikes! I have a question that i would really like to solve, i have a 48v 750w brushless motor. With a 48v 14.000mah battery and actually using a 48v 26ah controller... Is that ok? Im just worried in case the controller is asking for 26ah to my battery pack and maybe killing my batteries? Would u explain how it works?
The controller is likely 26A, not 26Ah. Make sure to read up on the difference between amp hours (capacity) and amps (power, basically). As long as your battery can safely put out 26A of power, then you should be fine.
How can i know if my battery pack can put out 26A? Any way to meter it?
Best way is to ask the vendor or manufacturer. It’s based on the amp limit of your BMS and your cells. If you know what cells are used, you can check their amp limit. Multiply that by the number of cells in each parallel group to get the max total amp discharge limit for the battery.
Awesome man! Thanks a lot, i have been looking for that answer for long time haha thx again!
please do this test to 25R cell. this will be interesting...
Test samsung 35E. What is the environment temperature?
environment temperature is 22 degrees Celsius (2:57 test 1 & 3:32 test 2) and 23 degrees Celsius on the 3rd test, which is very close to the manufacturer's spec sheet.
Hi, I have a question:
Capacity wise, would it be better to build the Battery-Pack using smartphone lituim ion cells? Or is the Wh / gramm the same as the 18650 cells?
Using Lithium Ion 18650 cells is better, as they have higher energy density, higher load capabilities, and most importantly, are much safer due to their circular non pouch design.
ok thank you. Was just an idea.
I picked up your book "DIY Lithium..." and it's a great resrouce but I do have a quick question. I'm using salvaged cells and have been testing each cell with an Opus BT - C3100 for capacity. I'm looking to build a 10p14s battary to live in the basket of an e-bike but am wondering how best to build this if I don't have a perfectly matched set of cells. How far off in capacity can each cell group be? I've got everything from 1800 to 2800 mah. Can I have one group of 10 be built from 2000 mah cells and another from 2100? I also picked up your BMS for this build.
In this case, I'd recommend trying to make each parallel group the same total Ah. So if you have 10 2100mah cells and 10 2000mah cells, divide them in half so you have five in each group, so each group is a total of 20,500mah. That way the groups will stay more balanced. If you had one parallel group at 20Ah and another at 21Ah then your BMS will have to work longer and harder to balance them each charge cycle.
Great idea, thanks.
If you know the current capacity of each cell, repackr.com can help you do the rest.
This just proves what I have been telling people for a looooong time that a small 14s 4p pack with Sanyo GA powering a Bafang BBSHD or any other hub motor at 30A will likely BAKE and fail or at least wear the chemistry a lot faster reducing cycle life of the cells running them so hot.
I always tell people, get more cells in parallel, its a WIN WIN, this will reduce heat significantly, reduce voltage sag, get more capacity + the battery pack delivers a lot more punch = you can actually feel the POWAAAAAAHHH... ohh yeahh =]
my rule is take your load (30A) and build a battery pack that can theoretically discharge double that amount of current. Then the battery pack can generally take it.
Hey BrunoPOWEEER! Do you think a big 14S 8P or 14S 6P battery pack with Sanyo GA still would likely BAKE and fail or at least wear the chemistry a lot faster reducing cycle life of the cells running them so hot when it powers a Bafang BBSHD motors at 30A? I was going to make my DIY Ebike battery and planning to use Sanyo 18650GA or Panasonic 18650B cells, actually I was decided to use Sanyo 18650GA cells because of more capacity and high maximum contiunous discharge rate. But since I watched this video and read your comment I am confused. I really would appreciate you if you write your idea. Do you think still it would heat a lot and fail or at least wear the chemistry a lot faster reducing cycle life when i use the cells in a 14S 8P or 14S 6P battery pack?
@@ozguraydin5384 I just ordered a new battery pack 14s8p with these exact same Sanyo cells. Because my 14s8p 24ah pack with samsung cells died after 1yr usage @27A controller on ebike. Not sure if water damage inside was electrolyte or condensation. Either way, battery no good anymore. Driving 30amp continuus is really alot (fun)
You are incorrect. 30A would be 7.5A which would not reach 60C. Also the 30A would not be continuous, It would be in limited burst. The Average discharge is much lower than the max power of the bike otherwise the motor would be the first thing to burn.
Are you using sanyo 18650GA grade C cells and not grade A..I see the cell you are using have a c makes on the heat shrink....maybe that's why at 8amps discharge it has reach its max rated temp....
Thx for sharing
I have a triangle pack, 48v with 98 Panasonic/Sanyo ga cells, my question is, how many continuous amps should this be capable of on my ebike? Will it handle a 40 amp controller with a crystalyte direct drive hub motor?
It will definitely handle 40 amps. At 7p, theoretically the rating is 70A but in reality probably closer to 50A due to cooling issues at max amps.
EbikeSchool.com thank you very much for the quick response.
Good video👍🏻
Please test Tesla 18650 and 21700 cell🙂🙂
Max amps are for peaks not continous
Wow nice video
nice now make it with a vtc6 please
Yes, would make it much more interesting since Sony rates the VTC6 at 30A, but how long can it take it?
Yeaaahhh.. that will be a very interesting test hahaha 30A continuous vs "manufacturer specs" hahaaa... SONY POWAAAHHHHH....????
Go check out Mooch's posts on the e cigarette forum. He thoroughly tests pretty much all readily available cells. A lot of great info over there. Pretty sure the VTC6 is good for 19A on a bench test but in an ebike pack I would recommend keeping discharge at half the tested max current a cell can handle.
Good job,
That puppy is so damn sweet looking
LG M26 please
What did you use as a resistive load for discharging?
For this test I used halogen lightbulbs. I have a video showing how I made a battery tester using halogen bulbs.
I'll check it out, thank you for the replay.
EbikeSchool.com could u please put the video link?
test Panasonic ncr18650b
Sincerely this batteries seems unrecyclable, because it heat a lot when are charged, and has hight internal resistance and often low capacity, when are obteined from notebook batteries/scrap
How about testing some Tesla batteries?
THE ONLY video in all the net SHowing temperature. many wannabe testers watts, vots, amps. no one TEMP.
Add a heat exchanger and you have a water heater
Lghe2 would be great
I like it, thumbs up. That is all ... 🔋🔋🔥💥⚡️
Nice video:)
Samsung 33G cell please!
You got it!
panasonic 18650pf would be great
I'll add it to the list. I think I have some laying around.
Nice
I have had 14S4P ebike packs with the PF and the GA cells for three years now. The GA cells are superior at least in terms of voltage sag. I run BBSHD motors with these and at 30 amp draw, the PF cell voltage sags like crazy. It will go from 57 volts down to 47 volts under 30 amp draws within a few seconds. The GA cells drop from 57 to 51-52 volts under the same draw.
The PF cells put out significantly less power under heavy draw and it is very evident in the bikes acceleration.
sick! 👍
Any one have info about samsung ICR18650-26J M then Plese share..
I want datasheet.
datasheet: www.datasheetspdf.com/datasheet/ICR18650-26JM.html
Czar Zenana thank you
81°C at 12 amps! You would be able to boil some water with that ;-D
I recommend people check out Mooch's battery testing results over at the e cigarette forum.
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
In an ebike pack without any active cooling, I think it's safe to keep any prolonged draw on the cells at half their tested rating.
Lg m26
And I hot glued all my 18650 together, next time I know better
Another thing which would help is using nickel plated copper strip spot welded on the cells.
Nickel strips have 1/4 the conductivity of copper, so at 5-10A, it could be heating up too along with the cell, not helping the thermal test.
nice doggy..! woof..!