I can dismantle you! Mohammed Hijab Vs Canadian Atheist (Speakers Corner)
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- #Scdawahchannel #Speakerscorner
Donate and help build a masjid in Norway and a house for you in Jannah www.saveiman.com/en?affiliate...
HELP SHARE
SCDAWAH URDU CHANNEL - / @scdawahurduchannel
SCDAWAH ARABIC CHANNEL -
/ majidyat
SCDAWAH NUSANTARA - / @scdawahindonesia
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For sponsorship opportunities contact us at SCDawah@gmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Request to all to please not abuse or swear in comments, Dawah is to invite not to insult. Jazak Allah Khair
*If you see any inappropriate Ads please report them to us at Scdawah@gmail.com so they can be banned Jazak Allah Khair*
Disclaimer: The views and opinions of partakers in these debates and videos in no way represent the views of SCDawah but are a representation of what takes place at speakers Corner.
*LIKE AND SHARE*
*Donate to support the Norway Masjid and help spread the dawah, LINK IN DESCRIPTION*
Alhamdulillah
There are some things we can be certain about. Mainly all the worldview level principles identified in the history of philosophy. As a theist, I'd argue that list of things starts with the very first principle that a creator exists, and is the metaphysically primary source of our universe. Then the necessary presuppositions such as, beliefs in causality, the self, the external World being real, morality, truth, knowledge, laws of logic and nature,etc... .
Of course, we can learn more about those things, but fundamentally we can have certainty regarding our affirmations about all that.
is this old is gold?
definatly brother, look how young brother hijab is, ( i dont mean that as insult just as an observation) im 34 myself ;)
Hijab is equivocating on two different senses of "fine-tuning". In cosmology "fine-tuned" refers to us "finely-tuning" the numbers so our models work. They don't mean it in the same sense that theists conceptualise "fine-tuning" (tuned by God). ie: the explanation for the supposed "fine-tuning" is merely us since it's us who are constructing these models. For some reason theists like Hijab latch on this as something extra than what cosmologists mean.
I dont understand? You mean „us finely tuning the numbers so our models work“ as in us humans are finely tuning what?
And also, whatever you mean by that, does it require intelligence and knowledge and power for this fine tuning?
@@xy-pc9nh Thanks for your reply and question. I'll try to clarify: I mean that cosmologists and astrophysicists are the ones 'fine-tuning' the numbers since these are models that are based on mathematics, which is a axiomatic system that humans constructed.
Yes, I think to understand advanced physics of cosmology and astrophysics requires intelligence and knowledge, but I don't know what you mean by it requiring "power"? I'm just talking about constructing cosmological models - cosmologists don't need 'power' to make an actual universe - their job is just to build models of how it works.
@@rogerx1979 hmm ok I think I understood what you are saying that we are the ones fine tuning/constructing these models by using math which humans constructed right?
But math is an absolute, necessary fact even if human beings were not alive. If there are 2 objects next to each other and one objects disappears then there is one object left. Maths is a language, its existence doesnt depend on the existence of humans. No matter if humans live or die, 2+2 will always equal 4 in our world. Therefore, the constant laws and numbers which are being referred to are not fine-tuned by us, we simply discovered that there is a fine-tuning through our observation using math
I don’t know if we mean the same thing in the end, but I disagree with the statement or understanding that us humans are in charge of the fine-tuning of this world. We simply discover what is already existent to us through observation.
@@xy-pc9nh *"But math is an absolute, necessary fact even if human beings were not alive."*
I don't know what you mean tbh what kind of a modality are you appealing to here? Math is an axiomatic system - axiomatic rules that we make up. eg: 2+2=4 is 'true' in virtue of the axiomatic rules (see Godel's incompleteness theorem).
*"No matter if humans live or die, 2+2 will always equal 4 in our world. Therefore, the constant laws and numbers which are being referred to are not fine-tuned by us."*
Sorry, but I don't see how it follows from your premise: 2+2 will always equal 4; therefore the constants of the universe are not fine-tuned by us?? What does the universe being 'finely-tuned' have to do with 2+2=4??
*" but I disagree with the statement or understanding that us humans are in charge of the fine-tuning of this world"*
I haven't said that humans are in charge of fine-tuning of this world. I'm not convinced this world is 'fine-tuned'.
@@rogerx1979 what I’m applying is the contingency argument. There is no doubt that there are existences. There are possible existences (contingent/dependent existences), impossible existences (mental constructs like a squared circle), and one necessary existence (independent existence, otherwise you would have the logical fallacy of infinite regress of dependent existences).
Maths is a language which contains necessary/independent facts. To say that humans „constructed math because of an axiomatic system“ therefore us humans are „fine tuning“ xy sounds fallacious but I don’t even understand what that actually means? Could you give a concrete example which might clarify your initial claim/statement?
Because what I wanted to tell you is that even if humans never existed, math as a necessary fact would have existed independently.. it doesn’t need human „fine-tuners“(?) in order to exist or to be true, so the argument you brought forward (unless I completely misunderstood it) seems incorrect
If you dont beliebe the world is fine tuned, then please as mentioned above tell me what fine tuning by humans is with a precise example
So a god that decided to create a universe for itself... instead of just continuing to exist only by itself... did abracadabra poof as per hijab :)
There is a natural intelligence behind the universe, but we have no evidence of a supernatural intelligence behind the universe.
The universe itself is the evidence of a supermatural intelligence.
@@D1smantle Nope, everything is natural. Religions have failed to provide any evidence of supernatural processes.
@@scottholder4431 So when you comment like that, you made a claim, and then you prefer to not being open-minded, you're choosing to remain closed off. So where's the discussion? Where are you from mate? If you're in London, then I suggest you challenge the Muslim debaters there with your claim. But come with an OPEN HEART, no bias, no trolling and no prejudice.
So back to your claim. The evidence for a supernatural intelligence behind the universe can be seen in the fine-tuning of physical constants and the emergence of consciousness and rationality. These aspects suggest an intelligent design beyond natural processes alone.
In Islam, the Quran is considered by Muslims to be the ultimate proof of the supernatural, as it is believed to be the word of God, revealed to the Prophet Muhammad. The Quran itself presents arguments for the existence of a supernatural creator and intelligence. Here are a couple of verses that are often referenced
Quranic verses like 52:35-36 and 29:20 emphasize reflection on creation and the existence of Allah as a guiding force behind the universe's design and development. In the Quran, chapter At-Tur 52:35-36, says: "Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain."
Another one is, chapter Al-`Ankabut 29:20: "Say, 'Travel through the land and observe how He began creation. Then Allah will produce the final creation. Indeed Allah, over all things, is competent.'" Another one is, chapter Al-Nur 24:45: "And Allah has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills: for verily Allah has power over all things."1
These verses suggest that the creation of the universe and life itself is a sign of a supernatural intelligence, which is a central tenet of Islamic belief. The Quran also contains verses that are claimed to align with modern scientific understanding, which some interpret as evidence of its divine origin.
@@slickperspective2745 Well you could prove me wrong by providing some supernatural process.
@@slickperspective2745 So when you comment like that, you made a claim"
And the evidence of my claim is that we know natural processes exist and we have no evidence supernatural processes exist.
Therefore, the conclusion is.......everything is naturally created until religions can provide a supernatural process.
This is very easy to understand.