Ableton Push 3 - My thoughts after a month of using it.
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2023
- I think it's time to share some of my thoughts and opinions on Ableton Push 3 after I've spent some more time with it. Like with anything else in life - some things are really great, others are not that great and everyone is always entitled to having their own opinion.
This is NOT a review, just me going through some of my experiences and opinions on this new unit. Nothing more, nothing less. I know that we will get updates and new features added so this video might not age very well but it is what it is :D
I think it's a great device for sure! It's definitely up there with the MPC's in terms of usability and functionality. I never got to talk about the sampling workflow in this video but there's honestly not much to say... It's super powerful and great to use for that sort of stuff - Just like the DAW version of Live.
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Much respect for your sincerity and for making such an informative video as always, really enjoyed it. Just wanted to clarify that Live Intro is not the one that comes for free with most MIDI controllers, that's Live Lite, which is even more limited. But the point about not getting the full license for 2k is still very valid.
Thanks!
Yeah, you’re right about the lite version! Getting the suite version might be much to ask for but I think you’re totally right- the standard version would do the trick.
@@AccurateBeats The stand alone should come it it's own version of ableton running inside the unit, with support for max for live, and probably some of the sound collection of suite, as well as all the devices. However, that doesn't mean that the customer should be able to also run an equivalent version in their computer, so the included license could be limited to intro even, as long as the stand alone unit featured a more complete solution.
How you don’t get Ableton Live Suite included at this price point is beyond me.
It's silly
you get a huge discount. if i buy push 3 i can get ableton 11 suite for 237 chf. not that bad
if live suite was included then those who already own live (probably a lot of the push 3 target audience) would essentially be buying the push at a higher price then those who don't (they would have spent a significantly more amount of money to get the same thing).
@@midi_input yeah but what if push came with something like ableton 12 that would have been win win for every buyer
@@Kimfvhte2 Yep
Most passive aggressive review I’ve ever encountered… and I loved every minute of it. 😂
Great perspective and great video as always. Thanks brother!!❤
I like it very much, how you explain things. Thank for sharing your knowledge 😊
Solid review. I feel the same way about the buttons! I’ll be waiting this one out. Happy with my Push 2, might eventually cop the 3 second hand when price comes down and there are some firmware updates.
Makes total sense!
I also think that Push 2 will stay supported for a long time. If it works, it works 😀
You made a very correct assessment. I liked your sincerity. I have seen other CZcamsrs who are not as sincere as you. Perhaps because Ableton offered them such a machine they felt their criticism conditioned. I felt it in them. The truth is that Push 3 is a disappointment. The price is abusive just as it is abusive to only give the Intro version of Ableton Live on a 2000 dollar machine. Ableton fell a lot in my regard.
I decided to not go deep into these things in my first video since I wasn’t sure how to think about everything. Im just trying to be honest and I don’t mean to bash on Ableton too hard either. A fair amount of criticism is always needed 😀
I don’t know how money works on this level but the MPC X se is also pretty pricey… Everything gets more expensive these days but I kinda think people would’ve been a bit less upset here if Live 11 Suite was included and the price was USD 1200 or something like that. I think it’s cool that we’re getting an option like this and the standalone capability on something with an included battery will never be sold for cheap.
Thanks for your perspective! Much appreciated!
You have a very sloppy use of the word abuse. Is this what has become of us. Anything you don't like is abuse or abusive? Really, it's not that critical. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It isn't like you get cancer when you get a Push 3. Ableton is probably thinking the same of you.
I don't even really like Ableton Live like that but I find myself defending them against hyperbolic people. Nobody is being abused. It's all choice and free will. It's production tools, not food or shelter.
I bought it, I love it, well worth the money, hmm what else can we get for the same money? That’s as portable and full standalone and syncs perfectly back with my desktop daw. And it’s build to last so upgrades and accessories will be coming in the future , maybe like touchscreen apps which sync and help with arrangement view, audio editing and general things that will be nice to pull around with our fingers. I’m currently using my iPad with ableton link and imagine the possibility’s of live performance standalone. You can route midi to an interface connected to iPad so it can be controlled like an external instrument. It has massive potential and you can tell it was designed with expansion in mind. It’s future proof tech. Which is a great idea.
Thanks for your review on this I always appreciate people who own products to explain how they use them and what's good or bad about them so thank you for your hard work much appreciated. You did mention though that the MPC didn't have song mode but indeed it does. Wasn't sure what you meant by it didn't at least the MPC live 2 has song mode. You go to menu then go to song mode and there it is.
He meant arrangement mode.
This is a great video. Nice work. You have integrity ❤️
Appreciate your honesty.
Thank you for the great update. I’m an Akai user/finger drummer and really curious about the Push’s MPE pads. I’m not going to pick up a Push right now, but in 6 months…who knows.
excellent information and follow up review!
Much appreciated!
It’s cool to see you Accurate (Maschine lover), for me (Push Native) talking on Push3. I sold Push2 immediately to fund Push3 for studio, as controller. For pads and new functionality. Have not sold Maschine+ yet. Personally waited Push Standalone for such a loooong time, so not rushing at this point. Maybe when more powerful guts available and arrangement and/or song mode like in M+ implemented, I will stuff Push3 controller with a core also to take on vacation. I’m used to play with Push2 connected to Mac, screen off. Still an exciting hardware upgrade for me. Otherwise now I spend my music piggy bank on analog synths exclusively.
As your long time viewer it’s great to hear your opinion on it! Thanks and cheers very much!
Thank you for saying so!
It’s great to hear from someone who’s really into Live saying that it’s an exciting upgrade!
I’m excited about it too even though I’m using MPC’s more than anything else these days. I think that the future will bring some really cool upgrades for P3 too!
Thanks for the support!
I think it's early days for push 3 standalone, a bit like when the akai force came out.
'IF" they support and develop the stand alone experience like Akai did wit the force it'll be pretty cool, right now it's seems like it's still in the BETA stage.
I do worry a littlle that they released an underpowered version just to get it under £2000 and they will be multi tier versions once an new cpu comes along
in 6 months or a year where if you havn't spent another£1000 on upgrading your cpu you'll be left behind on firmwares...
Exactly that's why I will get just the controller. It looks like it's about twenty years away to get what I want.
I still love my Push 2 and Linnstrument combo! With Linnstrument (MPE controller designed by Roger Linn) you have a much larger surface and are not as limited as with 8x8 rows.
is it possible to use the Linnstrument with an ipad ?
I think you can but its better if you use it on a proper computer or synth that support all the features that Linnstrument have, also its pricy but amazing device, Roger Linn its a fucking genious. @@HelmHell
Most people getting a Push 3 will already have the suite. If it were included, there would be loads of black market deals as folks were forced to sell their current license and use the one supplied with the product. [or sell the one supplied with the product] The alternative would be to make the Push 3 cheaper if you already have the software.
Of course, they may already be doing this. Imagine if the Push 3 was 400 euros more expensive, with a discount depending on what other versions of the Ableton you had. ;0)
Fair point as well!
think it should be easy for Ableton to give those who already have a license a discount like they already do for Live when you buy a higher tier or a new version. I mean they do sell everything Ableton exclusively anyway. So no license-info needs to be put into any box anyway.
Nice overview! The lack of an arranger/song mode overview is an absolute dealbreaker for me :( (And maschine plus doés have the arranger view btw).
Me too. Makes it unusable. 2k is stupid. An iPad M1 and Logic makes more sense.
I've been an Ableton user since version 2 and I really like the DAW. You have a very open, neutral and clear point of view here. Great contribution to this and I see your criticisms and the advantages exactly the same way. The hardware of the controller is certainly top and that you can upgrade the processor in the future is a good idea from Ableton. But what I don't think is possible is that Ableton provides an intro license for the software! This is actually a real cheek and shameful. If I can ever raise the money for Push 3, it will only be for the controller version and upgrading to standalone in the future. Peace to all 🙏🏻🌈🕊✨
Thanks! A lot of people are saying that they’ll wait for an upgrade kit or waiting for the firmware to develop further. Maybe that a smart thing to do… But the concept of upgradeability is awsome! I guess a bottleneck will be that the processor need to run without active cooling. Who knows where the future will take us? I’m looking forward to this for sure
I absolutely love my Push 3. Coming from hardware and back into a hybrid approach, it’s perfect timing for where I’m at. I’m sequencing all my hardware and feeding it back into the push with adat and mixing and recording each multi track, plus adding Push’s fx on top so I’m hearing my synths in a new way. I love the workflow. I have a launchpad to launch scenes and clips externally.Adding max for live midi and other fx changes the game for me, I can create those and build the setup I want, in hardware! I really don’t have any complaints that can’t be fixed in a firmware or upgraded as better processors and ram come out.
Super valuable comment! Thank you!
I’m really glad for you! Getting something that changes and fixes ones workflow is the best feeling ever!
Sounds like you’re all set! Gogogo!
You have to keep in mind that for Ableton venturing into mobile standalone audio computing, this is pretty much a Gen 1 product for them. Which means it likely won't be a God machine right out of the box. Instead, you probably need to patiently await a few firmware upgrades or even a Gen 2 version for this device to really come into its own. Let's not forget that Push 2 was miles better as an Ableton controller vs Push1 and even that device saw a whole lot of firmware improvements over its lifespan.
Contrary to popular opinion, pricepoint wise it's actually not too shabby from a hardware perspective IMO. You would pay more for individual parts (laptop, Ableton controller, 4 times 4x4 MPE controllers, audio interface), and running dedicated audio software on Linux should be fine with these hardware specs. If anything, it's more a matter of optimizing firmware over time. Equipped with much higher hardware specs it would probably run into cooling and throttling issues anyway. Stepping into a new groovebox market with this device, it should have come with a Standard Ableton Live license though. People coming from other platforms simply expect more than a minimal Ableton experience at this price point.
In the end, this is the Ableton device I always wanted and there is definitely huge potential in the Push 3. But atm, I'm not throwing my Push 2 away yet. Instead, I'll wait a bit longer how the Push 3 comes along and matures before I'll jump ship. Until that time, I use my MPC Live 2 for mobile standalone music making.
Thanks for this very helpful comment!
I think you’re right! This is new territory for them and with their track record of adding/ fixing things with updates we could probably expect great improvements over time!
The cooling must be a factor here. I didn’t think of that but it makes total sense to me!
Waiting for some updates and giving the product time to grow into its own shoes sounds like a great way to think about this.
Thanks again for the comment! I really hope people gets to see this!
@@AccurateBeats When you actually look up that Intel i3 CPU, it becomes clear that it was never designed to be passively cooled in the first place. So this is already a big technical challenge they had to overcome. Especially because Ableton is not a Samsung or an Apple. Designing mobile computing hardware and basically a dedicated mobile (audio) OS to work perfectly together has never been their core business.
So as they learn and iterate I definitely expect hardware performance improvements coming in. Not only when it comes to stability but also elements like boot-up time and battery life will likely improve over time.
Many companies release Gen 1 products with way less bugs. It's unacceptable. I'm software developer with many years experience shipping consumer and custom solutions. What ableton has done is super sloppy. That aside I will have a good look at the Push 3 in perhaps a year.
@@Drrolfski actually the cooling isn't well designed on the push. The heatzink is connected to the bottom plate, and the processing unit to the bottom plate. It would have made much more sense to connect the CPU directly to the heatzink. While the CPU is TDP12-28W, I'm not sure we know how it is clocked, it could be underclocked. Also, there has been products with up to i7 ultra low voltage CPUs, being passively cooled in tablet enclosures.
The strange thing here is that it is using a intel cpu, since it runs linux. I initially thought that it perhaps was running a Windows Compact Embedded solution or what they call it these days... basically a custom install of windows with only necessary part of the OS. But since it is running linux, ARM would have been an obvious choice, with better performance per watt, TDP and per dollar.
The RAM limitation makes some sense, as with a lower end CPU, the CPU will hit its limits at some point, so it might not be able to run project that would need much more RAM anyway, so the CPU will always in relation to the type of thing one is working will, impact the maximum of useable ram, not sure though, if it would not have been able to make use of more RAM.
A big price issue is that an Macbook Air m1, can be had for the price different between the stand alone version and the controller version, and that will outperform the stand alone version, even though it also comes with 8GB of RAM. The stand alone Push also has really limited battery-time, had they just implemented USB-C power, the combination of Macbook Air M1 and push controller, would have given the user better batterytimes as well.
The pricing of the controller unit, is a bit high, but mostly because it is to tied to ableton, had they integrated operation with other DAWs, it would have been reasonably priced, considering the MPE pads, and the display.
The sound interface is not that good, unfortunately, so they could have kept the price down, unless they somehow unlocks an overbridge like feature where the sound interface in the push interacts directly with ablton and does not act like an interface, thus enabling users to expand their I/O using the connectors on the push. Windows does not support aggregated sound devices, and it isn't problem free in Mac OS, so it really does rely on a special solution, and since it is ableton, they should be able to build that in to ableton live at least.
So at this time, the stand alone really doesn't make sense. And the controller version is priced a bit high, and the built in sound interface at this point does little to justify the price.
Push 3 is a Gen 1 product?...it literally has a 3 in the name. It's the 3rd one.
"You would pay more for individual parts ..." Eh...maybe. Chances are you already have a computer, the rest of the stuff is pretty easy to mitigate cost on. And even if you had to purchase a computer you can look at it as...it's a computer...You're getting more use out of it. (Even a top mac mini is less.) And let's face it, very few people are probably brand new to music, and computers, and starting out buying a Push 3. You've already sunk a lot of cost into music. You even point out you'll stick with the MPC Live 2...So the cost for the Push 3, compared to what you can already do and have isn't worth it to you. There isn't enough gain to justify it.
I like the expression pad but...I'm already tripping over midi controllers and the Push3 isn't really going to fill a hole or be some missing piece I need. ...I do get the price though...and I often find price comparisons not quite fair. I think they could eek it down a tiny bit but it's not falling into a holy sh1t how much?!?!?1 for me.
If you already own suite version on the laptop can that be used?? Or do u have to buy it again for push 3
I am an Ableton user for years and maybe because of this I didn’t get the hype for this product. It’s just an optional bit of kit that for me would get in the way. To be fair, I don’t use clip launch… so maybe that’s why I find it useless. I still have an apc 40 in my closet. I pull it out every few years and use it for a few hours, lol.
I agree they should atleast give you Standard Ableton. I think for 2000 they should give us all the best version Suite!
When I pulled the trigger on the Push 2, it included the full Suite, for $800 on sale. This was maybe 5 years ago.
The MPC does have a song mode... just not a linear arranger, also you didn't mention you get less plugins on the standalone unit if you only have intro, and a few more with the normal and all of them with suite, so even if you are standalone only you are missing features if you don't have the better versions of Ableton software
You can make it linear by making one long sequence for example 120 bars and put it in Track view its almost like ableton arrangement mode. MPC is more inspiring to me but Ableton has alot more features, I mean alooot more.
I cannot believe that the screens are not multitouch - not even touch at all. So even the cheap MPCs look more modern to use.
Fast question: akai force cant do tempo changes per scene. Computer and ableton can BUT can push3 standalone do it? The goal is to save live gig song backing tracks per scene. Each song will have different tempo.
Not sure if I missed, was this stand alone only? If so, when I load certain packs, my push 3 crashes, is that a fix with later updates or a causality of war. Meaning bad push 3
As a standalone device the force beats Push 3. The Push is still great as a controller though. Unless you plan on taking it into the woods , you will probably be good with the controller version. The Pads on push 3 are much better than Push 2. I was having issues with stuck pads on push 2.
So after listening to you and reading the comments, it's a crime that an individual will drop 2k and still have to buy more stuff just to make it perform at capacity! Crazy.
Worth noting that you do get additional packs above and beyond what Intro normally comes with. It’s still not Standard or Suite but it’s not quite as basic as just Intro. I hope that’s helpful info to someone.
It really is!
From a marketing perspective though… I think they would be better off by just including the standard version of Live.
I agree with almost all of this, I'll add that there are currently two huge limitations on this one that aren't on other similar devices
1. This is, I'm fairly certain, the only device in this category you can't build a song and export stems out of in standalone. I can do this on the MPCs, Force, and Maschine Plus but not this one. It requires plugging into Ableton for any sort of stem export even if you record into the arranger mode which you can do but you can't see it on device.
2. I have not been able to find a way to create custom instrument racks from scratch on device. I searched forums and reddit after building out a complex device with a bunch of fx, but realized that I couldn't actually save the whole chain. On a computer you'd select all the devices at once and then save them to a new rack, this currently doesn't seem possible on device.
I'm probably going to keep the one I bought, and I'm sure that Ableton will add these features and more over time, but it's a bit annoying for 2000 dollars.
Hmm, I see this a little different from my personal view:
1. First off: The only song mode that I liked to use was the one on the M+. I hated the chaining on the MPCs and I never found myself wanting to mess with the one on the Force, mostly because I don't always want to perform into a song and I don't like using the touchscreen that much.
And the only reason I exported stems, was to import them into a DAW to finalize the song. So skipping that, and just opening the project in a DAW to finalize it, is (for me) a very nice solution that completely fixes my need for a song mode, as I never really finished a song completely in a box, other than this Jamuary-Jams. For me personally, I prefer to go that "open inside Ableton" route, because I tend to rearrange parts, change settings, sometimes want to change modulation etc. during mixing, and it is really really hard doing that with pre-rendered stems. But I can totally see, that other people have other workflows.
2. I don't know a single Groovebox/DAW-In-A-Box that comes with the idea of Instrument-Racks at all. While I think you might be able to save a Synth together with FX on the M+, I am quite sure you cannot on the MPCs.
On the P3 you are able to create complex Device chains. The only thing you will not be able to do without a Computer is using that parallel stuff, that can be done with Racks. While I agree, that it would be nice to have, it is nothing that other boxes provide.
And while M+ might be able to chain devices in a single preset, you are not able to really sound design as on any other box, so depending on your point of view, this might even be worse.
@@jkirchheimerYou're wrong about the MPC. It's possible to save synth presets and even keygroups along with up to four insert effects. If you can't do that on the Push 3, that's a first in this category and arguably a huge omission.
@@sinewaymusic oh, somehow I must have missed that totally (Owning a Force since launch...) :( Thanks for pointing that out!
Yeah, M+ has the best song mode but it’s still not completely as straight forward as I think Abletons version of “arranger view” would be. I doubt that we’ll ever see a linear based workflow on a standalone unit that compares to a daw on a computer.
Bu that’s just me
@@jkirchheimer for 2 you can save any plugin and it’s associated fx as a program on any Akai box. But I appreciate your thoughts on opening in Ableton for sure!
If you had to recommend a beat machine for a newbie, would you say something like this where it has pretty expansive functionality? Or something more limited where the learning curve wouldn’t be as steep? Any rec’s?
As a fan of my Roli seaboard. MPE is incredible but like learning a whole new keyboard. Like automation in real time
Hey man, I've started binge watching your videos. Is there a video somewhere that you've made where you go into the nuts and bolts of scratching? I've looked but I can't seem to find it. If you haven't made a video like this, I'd be really interested in it. A lot of guys chasing the early 90s production techniques and sound are always going on about bit crushing and filtering or fetishizing old gear or whatever but there's relatively little attention paid to the turntable aspect of it, which was a huge part of that sound. You're one of the few guys doing this on CZcams who seems to understand the importance of it. I recently tried to start incorporating this into my own stuff mostly because I wanted to be able to make choruses out of scratched phrases. As it turns out, this is way more difficult to do that I thought it was going to be. It looks easy when scratch DJ's do it, but it really isn't.
Hey! Yeah, you’re touching a topic where I’ve chosen to just do what I do without really covering it on the channel.
I think there’s a bit too much elitism going on in the world of turntablism and scratching to really benefit the culture and I don’t want to be a part of it.
I’m a pretty bad scratch dj, I’m aware of that and I’m totally ok with it. But I also know I’m not really the right guy to try to educate in the art form.
It’s a field where technical skill is highly valued and even tough I love it and really appreciate a good scratch dj - I think it’s ok to keep it simple and stick to the basics for the most part.
I’m actually a bit surprised that I don’t get more hate on the channel for my poor skills but also kinda happy about it 😀
I love the sound of scratching but I couldn’t care less about the elitism around it.
Watch some tutorials on the basics and feel free to develop your own style from there. As with everything else - spending time practicing is crucial.
Sorry for the long winded answer!
still rocking push 1 with f**ked up pads but ey, it's doing its job!
Is there a video somewhere describing what you use to make your videos? I'm curious as your stuff always looks and sounds greats.
Thanks!
I just use a couple of Sony Zv-e10. One of them with a sigma 16mm 1.4 lens.
I do put a bit of work into my lighting though… I find that to make the biggest change overall
@@AccurateBeats Right on thank you so much for the reply. I've seen your older video on how you do your videos and was unsure how much it had changed. I would like to get into making some videos and am forgetting how important lighting is.
A thoughtful wise review, thanks.
Push3 seems aimed at people who already almost exclusively use Ableton, especially given the price point.
I can’t see anyone switching to Ableton because of the Push3, and certainly not the ridiculously priced standalone.
By the way, Maschine+ has a song mode and you can record audio in linear parts across song sections. Neither Push3 nor MPC have that. If you want that (basic songwriting feature) in standalone, you only have the AKAI Force as an alternative…
I guess that’s it - pretty much a no brainer for hardcore Live users.
The song mode on M+ is great but I kinda think a proper integration of lives arranger view would be even more straight forward.
Who knows if we’ll ever get a linear daw-like workflow on anything that’s not a daw on a computer.
@@AccurateBeatsSynthstrom Deluge has that linear daw-like timeline with unlimited clips length, so it is totally possible.
i have deluge and love it. theres almost nothing you cant do on deluge. i still want a push3 for easy integration with ableton i just will never get standalone. its just like M+ to me and that equals lacking on a ton of shit. @@immers_music
I appreciate the honest assessment. If you’re paying top dollar for a device that’s ran by software.. there’s no reason the full version of said software shouldn’t be included. Times are hard and financial struggles are real. These companies know this but don’t care it seems. There’s plenty of other options out there that give you a quality product without break in the bank. As a owner of the suite version of the software, I’d rather spend that 2000 on something else.
Great input, thanks!
MPCs do have a song mode. They don’t have a arrangement view. I'm good with the MPC song mode. Use it all the time.
I think the Push 3 is expensive for a machine that doesn’t come with atleast a Ableton Standard license. One can get a laptop, controller, and Ableton Live for that amount. That being said, most Push 3 users probably already have a license for Live so its not an issue for those folks.
Please search any MPE device. They are expensive but Ableton included it into the new Push at a discounted price imo.
@@johnnyparker2128
Been making music without MPE. I know how to use a pitch and mod wheel. I don’t need MPE now that’s it’s here. I don’t care.
@@matthewgaines10 I'm enjoying it
Single stick of ram doesn't cost that much to us but when you need to buy 10 000 of them, that's when the manufacturers start looking for shortcuts. Nowadays most of these devices use ARM platform that is well matured and readily available directly from the manufacturers, you don't need to design a thing on the board by yourself. You put a nicer DAC on the device and your hardware cost with the plastic molded case and the screen is still couple of hundreds of euros per unit, maybe. Wouldn't surprise me if the overall shipping and the retailers cut were a significant part of the price but I also doubt nothing can touch the cake Ableton itself is eating with every sold device. Whether paying them that much for the software is worth it to you, well. Only you can tell.
I’ve had push3 for about a month as well. It’s not perfect and has some bugs that can be a deal breaker. The more I use it the more I like it. Had the same experience as far as button wise. Love the pads but the buttons are too stiff initially. Price point wise it’s fair. The software alone has always been on the more expensive end and hardware wise it’s competitive with other hardware groove boxes. It’s the most complete Daw in box software wise in my opinion especially since so many people port their projects to Ableton for mixing purposes. They probably should have offered a “special edition” of Ableton for the release especially in standalone so those who want to upgrade can get the standard or suite at a discounted price point.
The price is definitely not fair. At most it should be 1000 bucks for the standalone version and 700 for the controller version because they do not include the full version of the Ableton software
@@JEFFMAN90 they give you intro with a controller. They really only discount the full software during the holidays or if you’re a student. If you don’t own the software already, the price is pretty high for the full on suite and controller.
Hi! Hope you are having a great evening. I didn't find any other way to reach you. I'm currently out of stable Internet, and have to do everything by mobile internet. I'm pretty much almost without Internet. Still get to see your videos from time to time. I just have one very important question! Can you please please tell me how you run your MPC One on battery? I need something to do without the computer, and outside. I just can't seem to figure it out. I have a ripcord, but I can't get that solution to work. Please please help. Thanks for all the awesome content as usual. Best regards Ulvens. Peace out.
I would have emailed you, if I had an address.
Just want some clarification if you know -- If I already own Suite, do I have to buy another license to use Suite on the standalone device?
No
The Force beats the crap out of Push 3. The workflow, the capacitance buttons, Amd the arrangement features. You can always bring a 18 volt power supply if you want go wireless. Also the larger screen is a huge plus
Dam I lost you now I found u again u bad white boy producer I learned so much from you u are very consistent on CZcams miss watching you videos . Question korg minilogue bass vs moog bass what is your thought on if the korg stands up to the moog bass?
Akai set the bar lower for releasing the FORCE without an arranger. Now Ableton thinks its OK. Its not really 'stand alone' yet. Also, with things missing, I see it as too costly to get in this early. Looks like something I'l check out after they get their poop together though. MVP.
This or an MPCX?
I suppose having daw control and connect ability is a plus for the Push, but the MPCX also has DAW control and a more intuitive workflow.
I think the reason it has an i3 is for heat and battery reasons. although i do wonder if there is an ARM chip that wouldve fit the bill better since those dont draw as much power. if we are going for low end speeds, might as well get good battery life. we arent making huge tracks with this. i see it as like a beefed up digitakt with a MUCH better overbrige
I was thinking the same thing. Bigger processors needs more airflow. More components more audio interference possible. Still dope though!
Even a Ryzen processor would’ve been better. Better power efficiency (less heat and better performance)
I actually hurt my fingers after playing my Push 2 for like 6+ hours, something that never happened to me before with other devices. Would hava been nice to have Elektron style buttons on the sides this time around. Anyways, I guess that's why they named it Push lol
Haha! Didn’t even think of that!
The MPC has always had a song mode and still does.
06:35 you will get Live Lite sometimes with midi controllers. That’s like a demo. Only 8 tracks. So very limited. Intro is never free with 3rd party content. Great video btw.
Yeah that’s right. The multiple different versions of the software is a bit confusing. And not just to me 😜
Yeah that’s right. The multiple different versions of the software is a bit confusing. And not just to me 😜
nice job
I think the MPE thing is a technical limitation. X-axis is pitch and Y-axis is limitation. For the licensing. I agree. For the price this should include at least studio. And for those not needing a license they could easily discount the P3. That said I am sooooo extremely torn on the Push 3 (as I have been on the P2). It's nice but I have always returned it in the grace period because I never felt it's worth the money it costs. It's always like: this is nice but is it worth THAT much money for a pad controller with a screen? Especially since I do not need half of the features. I don't need an audio interface. I already have a 32ch interface. I don't need any connectivity other than the USB host interface anyway. And for that 1k is a bit overpriced for me.
I love your videos because you are one of the most intellectually honest people on CZcams. Another great post.
One of the most intellectually honest people on CZcams? What??! 😀
That should be my next tattoo or something. Thanks a lot!
@@AccurateBeats it's not hyperbole. You are a proper thinker and so creative. At least that's my perspective.... But I'm a degenerate. :)
You have two licenses with every Ableton Live purchase (for example, one on your home machine and another on a laptop for travel). Can you not use your second license on Push 3 without buying it again?
Yeah you could. I guess that why they’ve done it this way… Its great for people that already has a license.
I'm still on Push 1. I am a bit retro and like the classics ;)
Thanks for this!! The QuNeo by Keith McMillen's pads are the most sensitive and has had MPE capability for some time now...
Not entirely true that they all sound the same, the time-stretch algorithms do differ, thus on some units one may be more restricted in how much one can change the BPM on samples, thus having to look for other source material, or making music in a tempo that one had not planned to.
They also offer their on set of instruments as well, so if one is using those, there can be quite significant difference between the potential results. Personally I'm not a samplist. And when it comes to "dawless" devices, the hardware is actually limiting in ways that gets annoying. Limitations can be good, for sure, but sequencers are just so much easier to use with a screen an pointer tool. At least all these devices running an actual DAW inside could have featured an HDMI out, and a clever holder for a specific screen, and a system for folding it, and with bluetooth, one could easily connect a mouse. Given that they all have a bit strange dimensions, the screen that would fit each unit the best, would probalby be a screen that they could brand, and sell in an official store, getting people to pay extra for having the perfect screen to match the dimensions of the unit. Had I been in charge of such a project I would have also built a word processor in to the OS, as well as a browser for downloading content, ven though people say they don't want to be check their emails on their sequencer hardware, having full access to the web and being able to directly download to the unit would be convenient, and word processors are useful for a lot of cases.
They should have at least included Standard for that price in all honesty.
i was able to save many problems with m4l patches and default settings. even though the default settings have to be made on computer, i can tell that many things (as usual in ableton) will be solved by m4live developers and the potential to have many more unique option in this device is there. will this happen tho? depends on how high the demand is. one thing i don't like: you cant change the play mode of the pads for each instance, you set this globally (which is bad, because you want to play a pad different as a bass or a lead). in recent push version this kind of problems was usually solved with clyphx (a python script) and midi clips (f.e. change scales by launching a clip). right now there doesnt seem to be a solution for this and i hope this time it the solution will be provided from ableton, because other wise only the nerds and freaks will be able to use the full potential. (still there will always be niche things which will be solved by m4l developers, wich is ok because that way beginner users dont get overwhelmed with features and theexperieced users pay a couple of bucks for a geeky extrafunction which can make a pretty big difference ).
Yeah, the entire m4l stuff is foreign to me but I’ve seen some pretty cool solutions and features coming out of it.
And even though that’s cool and all, it’s definitely not for everyone and I think you’re right in everything you said.
Push 3 needs to become 100% stable first, which it’s not today. At that point, I think it’s time for the nerds to go ham :)
“It’s me, not the device”, good thinking
Where is the device made?
Did you purchase the push 3 at the end?
Nope, I ended up sending it back after the project. I’ve thought about it since then but now with logic 11 - I can’t really see a good reason to switch daw
@AccurateBeats I've always wanted to get into logic because of all the rave reviews, but I just can't get on with apples OS. I already have to know windows and Linux, so another os is too much haha
Haven't seen you in my feed for a while due to the algorithm being an asshole, But glad you are doing well my dude.
If Akai don't get their shit act together and release MPC 3.0 soon I'll be jumping ship for good.
It sounds like you do not want upset Ableton. Too many of ' I do not know, I do not have opinion on it' I come to you for an honest opinion not speculations. I am just trying to be straight up with you.
Oh? I’m not trying to please anyone with this video. Definitely not Ableton. I though I was pretty critical in this one but I’ll give it to you as straight up as I can:
I think it’s a bad move to not include (at least) the Standard version of Live with push 3. The intro version is better than lite (as people has pointed out) but still… I think something better should’ve been included.
I think they will keep adding features to push 3 for a while that should’ve been there from day one. For example an arranger view. I wouldn’t say that it’s an unfinished product but it does seem a little bit rushed out.
It wasn’t very stabile with the first firmware versions - not good.
My knowledge around computer parts, the heat they output and what type of cooling is needed as well as pricing for parts, the process of designing, developing and manufacturing a device like this isn’t deep enough for me to accurately have a well thought through opinion about it. I see push 3 as a high tier device, just like the MPC X or Maschine+ and I think the price seems kinda comparable.
I think the storage space is a problem though… Especially since it doesn’t have an SD card slot.
Ehhh… What else?
In terms of the capabilities of the unit… I don’t have a lot of criticism to give. Some menu diving will always be needed on a device like this but it’s a bit frustrating at times as a new push user.
I can’t say that push 3 is a bad device. I don’t think it is but that has nothing to do with me wanting to please Ableton… It has its pros and cons, like anything else.
I think it is pretty much comparable to something like the newer MPC’s in the state that it’s in. The future might make it better or worse.
I think MPE is cool but a bit overrated. It works well on the unit though.
Also:
My first video (the brief overview and beat making session) was sponsored by Ableton… This video isn’t. The unit is a loaner and I don’t have a problem with upsetting Ableton. If the unit was trash… I would’ve said so.
Tried to clear some thing out. If you want anything else, feel free to ask :)
MPC does have a song mode! I’m confused by that statement
Linear arranger mode / song mode vs next pattern mode chained together
It's really an i3, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and battery, for $1000. Which is definitely expensive for those components.
That beat in the start was so funky i was about to jump out the bed and dance..That is what matters, so your take on the Push 3 to intelligent, sane people who are ok with different views. Tell them if they do not like the Push 3, do not buy it and stop CRYING. If you someone is expecting to make great music and money, you are in the wrong field crying over every penny. Now of course we can cut corners where we can yet if you need it, you get it or figure out a solution. Bottom line is, people don't want to make gear, do not want to design it with the company, yet want to just cry and complain..
Nice dig at modern standalone boxes. There really is no reason for them to have less than an i5-or-equivalent and at least 16gb of ram. The math supports this
Another thing people aren’t talking about is the hard dividing line between standalone and controller. Ableton still hasn’t migrated a Live set to the device. Nor has it behaved like an adequate standalone device. Waiting for it to stand alone. I’m like this guy…assuming the problem is me. For now.
You can actually map polyphonic after touch on mpc to stuff on certain synths on mpc n force like filter cutoff
Lol called comment section 🤣🌟🙌🙌🙌
Yeah, that’s also true. It doesn’t really compare to all the MPE stuff that Push offers but it does add another layer of expression!
Without big bright touch display, it's piece of s it
The extra $1000 for standalone is unjustified: the extra hardware costs less than $500 to buy separately at consumer price.
They should have at least included the Suite license or set it at $1500 or so.
Hear me out. It’s not apples to apples BUT I rather get an m2 ipad pro with a launch pad and get logic pro for 5 bucks a month than this. Would be under $2500 and way more value for money
This is one of the cool thing about living right now. We’re getting so many different options and ways to do things. I’m playing around with Logic on the iPad too and it’s really powerful! Long time Push users will probably get a lot out of push 3 but I probably won’t leave my MPC’s for either the iPad or push 3. That’s what’s beautiful about it - Right or wrong doesn’t apply :)
Thanks!
As someone who's using iPads for years now for different scenarios (DJing, Producing, Sampling). iPads are cool gears, the software is also cool, but using touch screens in any kind of live situation is pure hell and demands much more attention.
And yes, you can use controllers but sometimes happens that you can't map some really important functions what you want to use, or the AUv3 plugin isn't supporting X controller's Y's knob. It's a bit half baked.
I’ve been working on a video on this exact topic for a few weeks now. I want to live the iPad for music making but I just can’t. Mostly because of the touch screen. Controllers are one thing but I’d want something as tightly integrated with the software as Maschine is for the computer… If there was a thing on that level - I’d be 100% down
Value is relative when you want a tactile music-making experience almost like playing an instrument, which the iPad definitely is not. People are willing to pay the price for such an experience, especially on their favorite music-making platform.
@@AccurateBeats I would watch that video tho! I think the iOS platform in general deserves some professional critics because the whole DAW/Controller situation is nowhere near to the hype.
Both maschine and mpc have song mode bro
Just 3D print stands to conceal a laptop under the P3 : boom : standalone ! 😁😁Most folks get stands anyway
DAWLESS my behind !
I've yet to see someone reload a full song after booting : what is the loading time with a full project?
Cheers 🥂
The issue with the memory on standalones are why I stay away. I have no idea why there isn't at least a tb in them. 🤷🏽👎🏼💜🤷🏽
That and then being so expensive for nothing. 😶
Agree .....why I haven't got it.....shame I like it but
You should at least get the standard version with this device
Did he say, mpc doesn't song mode?
At launch*
@AccurateBeats appreciate you prompt and genuinity, Big ups.
I think it’s way overpriced for the old tech within. If there was a better processor, ram and larger hd and the ability to use vst plugins I would purchase it in a heartbeat. And and ffs give us a touchscreen! How long has akai force been out for and touchscreen tech is like 20 years old or something. I’d like to see a better battery in there alongside brighter leds for daytime use in an outside environment. It could have been completely game changing but alas no it is using tech for 10 years ago it seems. If ableton wanted to make sales I think they should release a full working modified version of live on the iPad. The new iPads have much better processors within. There is already mpe controller apps on iPad like velocity keys so buying the push 3 because of the mpe function is a large outlay when you can spend a few dollars on an app if you have an iPad. I would love to see a UI like push 3 on an app. Touchable is ok but rather clunky and fails a lot.
Dude these thoughts are so bang on and pretty much what I said on launch. Push 3 is a huge disappointment. Ableton have really misfired on this one!
This price is outragously bad, the specs are terrible and they are crazy to think this will sell good. 256GB for $2000 is more insane than Apple. Really, i3 .. it reads like a description of an $200 office laptop.
For that much money i could just buy a Push 2 for like $400 used, with a angled laptop stand, and duct-tape a new MacMini M2 16GB under it for about $800 and had infinitely more storage and processing power.
Since i still have $800 left from a $2000 budget i could even buy a 4 channel USB interface and also tape that under the Push2, for like $200. For example: MiniFuse4 with DC coupled outputs.
A total of $1400 and i had a full Apple Mac studio grade M2 setup:
- HDMI output, full desktop experience,
- USB expansion options for storage and backup
- Network connectivity
- Full Audio I/O for modular or synth,
- MIDI I/O
- 4 outputs, 4 inputs with Mic/Guitar pre's
And it wouldn't be larger than the Push2.
All in one "case" under the Push2 surface.
So what is to gain with this $2000 one-trick pony that will be outdated in 2 years and already shows signs of age by booting super slow?
I think they only made this product because of Akai Force and Maschine+, basically not to give value to the consumer, but just to be able to say: "we got something like that, too".
If a controller doesn't work well with different DAWs and software, then I decided I am not interested. This thing, as well as the various Maschine controllers and the stand-alone, look cool but I stopped having interest in version one of both Push and Maschine controllers.
Just get akia force!!!
Save your money, people. The Push 3 isn't going to make your beats any better.
Live Lite isn’t useless but all you get is a few weak key instruments, some decent drums, and a bunch of fx. It should come with standard. Full stop.
I Feel Sorry For All Those People That Are On The Fence About Purchasing The Push 3... I Think You Convinced Us All To Stick With What WE Have. It's Apparent That The PUSH 3 Is A Money Grab, The Fact That You Don't Get The Suite Level Of It's DAW is DISTURBING.
Exactly it's just not value for money at all.
I have an able push 2 for sale if anyone wants it
Push 3 seems like such a flop. The MPC Live is a much better tool, and easier to use. And Ableton is the only daw I use.
Glorified midi controller. I have the push 2 and it’s collecting dust. Let’s be realistic, if you are making serious music, you are not going to be using the Push only. It’s too time consuming and slows me down.
It's actually a great price. It's MPE, i3 & 8gb. Look at other standalone specs. This is far more powerful than mpc stuff which is pretty close in price. Like mpc key 61. This does a lot. Mpe controllers are also very expensive. This thing is a bargain LOL and no, it's not comparable to general computers. It's not a general computer. I do agree that ableton live software is a bit too expensive though. Intro package should be the lite lol. Intro isn't the one usually included... lite is way more.. ugh... lite. Lite is usually included and is next to useless.
The fact it doesn’t come with full suite is such a slap in the face and a money grab as well as way higher memory. Disappointing
Ehhh Maschine has song mode....
It seems to be very overpriced when you can get Maschine MK3 for 500 dollars or used at 300. Also no need for every button to have pich pend etc. when you can make the same thing happen pushing the wanted button and turn a nob with other hand... Yes it might be 10% easier and handy that way but with the knob you can still do the same thing. So I can't see reason to buy this for the price when you can do the same things with Maschine MK3 or other devices, lot cheaper... I don't see anything new that it offers so miss for me.
Push 3 just isn't the game changer everyone thought.
Seems like an MVP to me. (Minimum Viable Product)
Tbh stand alone devices having 16gb of ram is pointless, 8 is more than enough considering the device OS is only running the device
It’s all just meh 😑
MPE is cool but most of the use cases I’ve seen sound gack.
It’s too expensive to not have a suite license included.
I’d wager they are selling fuck all of them.
Yep it's worrying too because I hope it doesn't put Ableton under financial strain.
I just couldn't justify the price tag when there's a market full of great devises for way less money with the same capability and quality, "Akai Force & MPC range, Roland's 707, 101, Verslab, Polyend Tracker & Play, Novation Circuit, Electron etc.... The list is endless, and they have completely priced themselves out of the race IMO.
Why on earth would I pay this much money for a unit that competes in the same market space as product's that sell for half the price, or even quarter or third of the price? ..... Come on, this is just robbery!