MPE & Push 3: Is it for you? An in-depth guide.
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
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Using MPE on Ableton Push 3 is a joy. I'll be frank and say that it was a little intimidating at first, and took some getting used to. Now that I see how much expression I can get out of Push 3's pads, I'm genuinely excited about it.
Ableton asked me to make a video looking at MPE on Push 3, and so I did just that; We'll start with the basic concepts (which you can skip if you know them), go through some examples from Live's library and finish with some sound design break-downs. This is not a review, but rather both a ground-up introduction and more detailed explorations of what we can "squeeze" out of the feature creatively speaking.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, I'll go into even more detail in future videos and most of all in the Push Bible courses, do check them out if you're hungry for more. wrkshp.thinkific.com
Oh and do consider subscribing to this channel and my new WRKSHP channel to catch other Push 3 video, existing and forthcoming: / @wrkshp
Do please let me know your questions and thoughts. I can't respond to every comment, but I do read everything, am grateful for them, and will take them onboard for future videos.
Timestamps:
00:00 - MPE: musical intro on Ableton Push 3
00:29 - Video scope and introduction: MPE and Ableton Push 3
01:04 - 3 main topics in this video: Note Pitch Bend, Slide, Pressure
01:20 - PART 1: Note Pitch Bend: Introduction
01:29 - Note Pitch Bend Example
01:46 - Note Pitch Bend: Settings on Ableton Push 3
02:10 - Note Pitch Bend: On/Off Setting on Ableton Push 3
02:44 - In Tune Location Setting on Ableton Push 3
03:51 - Tn-Tune Width Setting on Ableton Push 3
04:49 - My Current Expression Settings on Ableton Push 3 and why
05:54 - MPE and Scale settings: a very interesting relationship on Ableton Push 3
07:43 - MPE Control Device: Changing How MPE Note Pitch Bend works
09:28 - Reversing Note Pitch Bend on Ableton Push 3 (crazy)
10:03 - A wild sound design example with MPE Control and Drift
10:40 - PART 2: Slide on Push 3: Intro + Musical Example
11:33 - Slide Settings
12:37 - Slide: Instrument Settings note
13:18 - Slide Sound 1: "MPE Cello Bow"
15:25 - Slide: Sound 2
16:41 - MPE Slide: Designing with Push and Drift
17:48 - PART 3: MPE Pressure on Push 3: Introduction
18:12 - Pressure Sound 1
19:01 - Pressure Sound 2
22:21 - MPE Percussion & MPE Drum Kits (Slide)
22:47 - Playing MPE Drum Kits on Push (examples)
23:11 - MPE Synth Lab Kit examples
25:31 - Turning Andri into MPE
25:56 - Conclusion: MPE on Ableton Push 3: a hella lotta fun
Lastly, this video is supported by all Push Biblers and Push PLAYGRNDers, and in this special case is also sponsored by Ableton, for which my thanks.
Ableton Push: www.ableton.com/en/push/ (not an affiliate link, alas)
#AbletonPush3 #Ableton #Push3 #AbletonPush - Jak na to + styl
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This beats the hell out of my 5k les Paul 1958 reissue.
What a good job! Amazing video, so well explained, such a good job! Thank you! And congratulations!
Thank you so much Markos! 🙏🏻🙃
You are the only one who spent the time to explain this feature, thanks, I watched so many other videos others, but no one gave a detailed description like you did, it was great thank you!
Thank you in return Peter!
I wondered how Pitch Bend worked when in Scale Mode. Great explanation of how to go all the way from a smooth Roli Seaboard type sound to more separated notes. I’m not ready for the Push 3 yet, but it's cool to see what it does. I still need to work my way through the Push Bible course. I had some life issues that delayed me starting it, and I look forward to jumping in bc your instruction is always so clear. However… I remember you saying the MPE stood for something else ;-)
This is so great, I saw this earlier and ordered your Push 3 course. Thanks for putting out such solid material
Dmitriy thank you in return! This is exactly the kind of longer-form “slow-cooked” content I’m making for the Push Bible. Looking forward to welcoming you there
This is amazing, can't wait for new PushBible to be released!
thank you! Work is afoot - seeing what I might add this time that wasn't present in Push 2 Bible. Lots to ponder :)
Yes. It is for me. Haha.
I love my Push 2 and just started learning how to play it melodically and harmonically... Being able to write on the go and bring it back to the full DAW, and now seeing how the MPE works, makes me feel like $2,000 is worth it.
I really gotta get that Push Bible because I'm a year into mine and just scratching the surface.
Thanks!
@TilliKommunikation thank you kindly in return!
OK OK I’ll finish the Push 2 course ASAP 😂
Chop chop! 😄
2:40 does pitch bend only work horizontally? I'd love to use it in full 2d
Hi! Does MPE works with third party plug ins like pigments, too? Of course connect via usb by computer... :)
Absolutely! It should also work with external MPE enabled hardware via MIDI.
Not sure if I missed, was this stand alone only? If so, when I load certain packs, my push 3 crashes, is that a fix with later updates or a causality of war. Meaning bad push 3
So everything I showed here was in control / tethered mode (I might have removed the cable on the thumbnail to save time though!). For a lot of the examples it would also be necessary to set these up with Live running on a computer (at the time of me writing this at least).
Sorry to hear you’ve had issues - I would say get straight in touch with Ableton and they will help you out. From what I’m reading in groups they do swap faulty units.
I don't think it's true that only certain notes can have their send amounts increased. It's a global parameter on the track.
No indeed - the sends are “monophonic” so to speak - BUT - if we combine Filter cutoff with slide (which is polyphonic) we can still “pick out” notes and also trigger the reverb. This of course depends on the instrument in question generating individual filters/envelopes for each note, which again is generally the case in Live's instruments.
I realised later I should have been even more specific on that point - thanks for highlighting!
I think the 1st question of the MPE drum kit has to do with choke groups and separate pads. Now a closed and open hihat fit on the same pad. Does this mean that they play or sound more naturally? What then do you do with A#1? Bell vs edge? Seems like that would be a better assignment for the slide
So choke groups still work as before. I think that the new kits aren’t per se better in every way than existing ones (and they miss things I’ve designed into my own drum rack DR1 in push PLAYGRND) but they do offer new options for expression. They fit more into less real estate. That said, the logic of how they’re set up is of course up for debate - and I think that as a “new” setup and layout we might not agree with every decision. Personally I’m just happy to have the option to get more out of the same real estate, especially when so much of the challenge with electronic music is to add a bit of humanness and even randomness to what we do.
@@AndriSoren Well I'm glad it was ableton who revisited their studio kit library and reassigned some MPE kits, and that I didn't have to do it. And I'm sure they have come up with some novel examples. Lot's of MPE for me falls under the same time allocation issues as, say, choosing the perfect kick: there's a rabbit hole of discovery, which if not properly managed, can really usurp the lion's share of my creative bandwidth. I am shamelessly among those who see the merit in presets!
@@JamesLevineAndSons amen!
This thing looks so great as an MPE controller but unfortunately I think it's a harder sell for those of us who already have a Push 2. Standalone is great for a small group of people but for the rest of us it's mostly a 50% bump in price with no enticing bundles they can offer to sweeten the deal. It's slightly cheaper than a Linnstrument but it doesn't offer a ton of other upgrades in the Push functionality. If anything the Linux standalone focus means they're less likely to improve third-party plugin integration, although it seems to make some arrange functionality more likely.
As always it’s a balancing act. As someone who only uses Push and Live’s instruments and effects I’m really pretty happy, in general, but I absolutely see why for some it’s not a fit. The never ending search to find the perfect setup is, well, exactly that.
That said, and given that I too didn’t get features I’d hoped for, I’ve been genuinely and happily taken aback by MPE. As such it was easy to make a video focussed on what it brings to the table.
Push 2 is still fantastic, and nothing has changed there. I could use Push 1 today and still be very happy.
@@AndriSoren Replying months later after seeing some new videos from you. I didn't mean to complain about the price of Push 3, it's just I bought Push 2 + Suite for $1000 and now that I own Suite it's harder for Ableton to offer me such deep discounts to upgrade my hardware. If I didn't already own both the MPE would make Push 3 worth the premium over Push 2. Obviously for you as a developer it's necessary for you to own, but I'm glad you also seem genuinely very happy with it.
I'd love to buy the course but it is very expensive. I understand a lot of work went into it but nonetheless.......
Hi Nick, thanks for writing here and letting me know this, being honest and direct about this is appreciated. I am aware that the course has an initial investment which is significant. That said the course is also (as of today, and in my opinion) the best value course there is, I'll explain my logic here as I feel it's worth doing so. The Push 3 Bible is the biggest course out there by a long, long (long) way. There are other courses out there which are an hour or three long, and these cost around $120-250. They are around $100 per hour basically. The Push 3 Bible will be at least 15 hours long, and per hour will cost closer to $25, even at full price. This is just the simplest calculation of course, and ignores that the course I've built has other advantages: I've been teaching Push for ten years, both for Ableton themselves and at private schools. Push is my only instrument and only focus. It's also built on everything learned from the Push 2 Bible, which has had amazing reviews and this builds on that and takes it further. Push 3 Bible uses the absolute highest quality video workflows (up to 6 cameras simultaneously - this is expensive to set up), offers searchable subtitles (unique), its own community (unique), integrated support (again unique) and that's just the start.
I could go on an on. What I've built is the result of wanting to make the absolute best experience I can. This takes an insane amount of time and investment, and as such in order to support that it also costs a significant amount in return. But, I hope and believe that it's the best experience out there. Finally, I don't want anybody buying something they don't need, and which is why there's a refund guarantee (please see the WRKSHP site for info on that) so that you can decide if the above is true.
I absolutely accept that it's a significant sum. But buying something like Push 3 and not knowing the depth of what it can do (and what it can't) is also a choice that has costs. Time is precious, hard-won insight is as well. I hope that the above makes some sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here, and don't hesitate to get in touch via email (see the contact page on WRKSHP dot eu).
Andri
Hi Nick,
I bought Andri’s Push 2 course when it came out, now have the Push 3 and also got his P3 course. Have to say they are fantastic courses, cover lots of ground, and each has a supportive community too. His courses are well worth the investment, in my opinion. You can waste a lot of time watching other You Tube videos, or go with a detailed and structured approach that Andri provides. I don’t get anything by writing this, but as a happy customer just wanted to say I highly recommend his P3 course!
@@tracetravlr4029 Well, I was on the fence for ages and you pushed me off, over the other side. Thanks.
Some of these finer finger positioning options in the menu are kind of slap in the face to guitar players that have wanted better MIDI options for the past 30+ years. Unless, of course this could be fixed by just building into the guitar itself now hopefully finally.
We don't want to be limited by pads. Guitar or bass strings can already do the the pitchbend stuff much easier. No arrangement view options for Push 3 will also be a massive pass from me. Push 3 = Push 2.5.
I hear you on the limited options for arrangement. I would suppose the next step will be to update session view with follow actions. Let's see what comes, as it's past time to offer improvements here, I agree.
Regarding the pads - I love them and the accompanying possibilities they offer - as I hopefully show here - and precisely because they are different from strings they do indeed offer different strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't imagine myself moving back to a stringed instrument for a second. If strings are best for you though, lean in to those and don't look back! :)
@@AndriSoren Can Push 3 switch the chord layout per measure now or did they forget to fix that too? So many needless limitations that actual musical instruments don't ever run into. The jog wheel is also not efficient enough either for $1800.
@@AndriSoren This has been the same frustration for me. I bought fully into Push 2 and Ableton, and was stunned that Push wasn't **really** all that integrated. Particularly, no simple way to lay out a set of chord/mode changes of a certain length, for instance, that would automatically track. So that essentially, the form of a complex piece could be established as the basis of an improvisation. And that loops of any length could operate completely independently of each other.
I built tools for this in Reaktor, years and years ago. I don't know if the Ableton team is just so imprinted with EDM as a sort of basic organizing prinpciple, or what the intense tie to a (sort of) tracker model is. But it's very limiting as an organizing principle for improvisations that involve multiple musicians. For someone standing solo, who's not really interested in harmonically complex improvisation possibilities--yes. It's pretty good for that. But I just don't get the continuing limitations.
It seems to me that the design team should want to widen the net for different types of improvising musicians to weigh in. I certainly invested...and begged them to tell me if Push 2 was the final product, or if they were just working on a next-gen. "No plans for a Push 3 any time in the near future, " was the best I got.
Well, so much for that. And it looks like the actual focus was more of the same. Not everyone wants to start from a blank slate and build this way--it's interesting and fun, but for someone looking to build a couple of sets of "architecture" to create a show, it's just not facile for that. And that's too bad. Even the MIDI editing is SO BASIC, no standard composition tools for quickly setting up retrogrades, etc. It's really almost as if there are no actual composers involved.
I love the MPE addition, but it seems like almost every other avenue for growth was pushed aside for that single thing. I realize I'm venting, but Ableton is coming for a LOT of money for this Push upgrade, and who knows if there'll just be a Push 4 two years later that gets subtly rumored, and no one will get any chance for input to that? It just seems to be a very intellectually "closed" design team, and that's too bad.
@@BruceRichardsonMusic Couldn't have said it better. Thanks for this. I had to use 3rd party plugins to achieve similar results to what you were achieving in Reaktor with Push 2. Other DAWs as well have started to integrate more of the compositional ease-of-use stuff as well whereas Ableton has been lagging behind. Again, it's fine to use 3rd party plugins like Captain Chords, but Ableton should have their own methods already built in by now.
You guys realise there is a mod and pitch wheel on synths, right?
Mod and pitch wheels are nice to have (and available on Push via the touch strip).
Mod and pitch wheel are however mono / global, and not polyphonic / per-note like MPE. They also often (on keyboards and somewhat on Push) involve “losing” a whole hand to use them. With MPE on Push we can use the fingers playing notes (much like polyphonic aftertouch).
@@AndriSoren I understand the technicalities. But weigh up the pros and cons of MPE versus a polyAT keyboard with mod/pitch wheels. I own one that has 2 mod wheels, a pitch bend wheel, polyAT and multiple expression pedals. This thing is over 30 years old.
Think about the complexity and skills required to play MPE in any significant way over the aforementioned.
A lot of this is being sidestepped. Yes it *can* do MPE, and exactly how many people can get their moneys worth out of it?
P.S. the push has pitch bend OR mod wheel. Not both at the same time. And you lose both hands to switch.
P.P.S. Ever wonder why the push lacks proper expression pedal functionality? The ports are there, the functionality is not.
@@mooted5513 I see your points and I raise you :)
Using multiple pitch or mod wheels is also a skill that takes time to develop, and develop it people have. I’ve seen amazing performances using just a pitch bend wheel or stick/lever (although this depends a lot on how it was designed). In that sense I think a Nord keyboard mod “lever” is often better than a touch strip and certainly many a mod wheel.
That said, using global mod or expression is of course “enough”, but in many cases it’s sorely lacking. I really notice it with a lot of patches in different situations.
Playing sounds on Push’s new pads brings the depth and even gentle randomness to proceedings that often create a much more organic and intriguing result. It’s so interesting and you have to try it to really understand if it’s for you. The general sensitivity of them is also just remarkable. I was very sceptical at the start.
Do the MPE pads require the development of a new skill? Yes - but it doesn’t have to take long, it’s complimentary to what we already know, and various parts can be tuned or turned off.
As I’ve said, I really wasn’t sure about MPE on Push when I first saw it. Frankly I found it a little intimidating (most of all note pitch bend). And then I tried it, leaned in a bit, and then a new world opened up which I wouldn’t want to stop using.
It is nice to have good patches and instruments of course. Luckily I quickly found ones I like, and even more exciting I’ve made some myself that are so much fun to make and use.
Of course everyone should weigh up the pros and cons, and work out what works for them. You might not need or want MPE pads. I also think they really have to be tried in person to be considered properly - hopefully more physical models will turn up in the future for that to happen.
@@mooted5513yes, i love only being about to play the keyboard with one hand while i use my other hand to move the mod wheel - and then stop moving the mod wheel when i was to use pitch bend, and not affect individual notes. This is a no brainer my dude.
@@SignificantOther11 the nice thing is that we now have the option to do this (which indeed can be a powerful technique if practiced) and also add MPE (or turn it off when we don't need it)