Does My Kayak Need a Rudder or a Skeg? | How to Kayak
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- čas přidán 17. 08. 2021
- Kayak skeg or rudders are important features of some kayaks, but what are they used for and how do I use them? If my kayak doesn't have a rudder, do I need one?
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I bought a 2001 Old Town Nantucket (14 footer) and added a SmartTrack rudder to it (not an easy process by any means, but not insanely difficult assuming you have a few tools and some DIY know-how). Makes paddling in the wind a...wait for it...breeze! It is also great to be able to control the boat invisibly when approaching skittish wildlife.
Thanks for the perfect explanation of how your boat moves through the water and how it acts on the wind coming in. Very helpful!
That was valueable informations. Thanks Ken. 👍🏻
Good solid advice, thanks. I am often asked about rudders/skegs and now have more info to pass on. A couple of considerations for those thinking about purchasing an after market rudder or a used boat with a rudder or skeg: The aftermarket kits work very well for rudder ready boats, however they can be quite expensive and the extra cash can go along way toward getting the boat of your dreams with one on it already. Carefully check a used boat with a skeg before purchase, a damaged skeg box (the molded part that the skeg retracts into) is near impossible to repair. Open the nearest hatch and inspect before buying. Last but not least, like he said if you have a shorter boat or a boat that wanders when you paddle then a rudder or skeg may not be the answer, they do cause extra drag in the water and may hold you back more than help.
The 12’ Walden tracks well in calm water but we can’t control the winds when they blow. Then the work kicks in to get to the more protected water. Still love it to bits. The perception Monterey for sale does have the retractable. But that’s great advice to inspect from the inside as well.
Greatly appreciate all the advice. You guys are great.
I have a Point 65N Maverick which came with a skeg and a rudder. I use the skeg for keeping on course in the wind. I used the rudder when I'm drifting. Last week I drifted across a lake only steering with my feet for about an hour. It was so peaceful!
Thanks so much for this great video! Really enjoyed it, and look forward to watching more
Another thing I noticed was that a sea boat used for a day trip with minimal gear on board will sit higher in the water than intended so track less well and sometimes the problem can be resolved by carry a few plastic bottles of water as ballast. They also allow a bit of fore and aft trim too. I put them in the keel and blow an air bag up over them and they stay put.
You are a natural teacher. You make it so easy. Thanks
Thank you very much! I enjoy it. :)
New subscriber and novice kayaker here, loving this channel! Keep up the great content 👍
Excellent description (using your model) of the forces involved in tracking and weather cocking. Just a note, I paddle an Eddyline Equinox 15' with a skeg. Without the skeg, it's a struggle to keep it going straight, and when I stop paddling and glide, it will *always* veer to one side or the other. With the skeg down, it's rock solid. In practice, if I need to turn on a dime or explore tight spaces, I pull up the skeg....otherwise it's employed.
Another excellent and informative video. Thank you. I've watched many of your videos and always have an extreme amount of respect for your knowledge and perspective. You give outstanding information, well thought out and presented and supportable by data.
Thank you John! I appreciate the kind words. I've really been enjoying sharing this stuff.
This was super informative! I’m hoping to get into kayaking and your channel has been super amazing.
Great to hear! I should warn you... once you start paddling, you won't be able to stop. :)
I'm about to get a kayak today and I'm really excited Cause this is my 1st time And this is my 1st time also watching you
The video is great! I prefer factory designed rudder which comes together with my kayak as I don't need to spend my time and rearrange the construction.
Great breakdown of skeg vs. rudder, I particularly enjoyed your explanation on why a skeg should be deployed at various heights depending on the conditions. I am heavy for kayaking at 260 lbs. and have found that most kayaks I have paddled that suit my size (high volume models) tend to weathercock more than the lower volume versions of the same boats my friends paddle. I have no real preference between a skeg or rudder, except when trying to get closer to wildlife to snap photos without scaring, them then the rudder makes it a bit easier than relying solely on edging for controlling change or directions without paddling since my camera is in my hands at that point. One of my favorite videos you have offered so far, and I have truly enjoyed them all! Thank you
Great point about controlling your kayak when filming. They're nice for fishing for the same reason... you can control your downwind drift. Thanks for the kind words! Great to hear the videos are being enjoyed.
Always easy to watch and understand!
I appreciate it!
I have two Tsunami 140's. One with rudder, one without. Where I find myself using the rudder the most is to maintain a heading while drifting and taking pictures. That in in a quartering sea or an irritating wind. ;)
That is a super overview of rudders and skegs! My preference is to have a rudder. I use it sometimes for longer trips to relieve the effort as you said. Most of the time I don't except when I am doing photography. Then, I really appreciate the ability to guide the kayak while I am getting my shots plus unstowing and stowing my camera. Thanks!!
That's a great point about filming and guiding the kayak with the rudder!
Another great video! I'm heavily considering adding a detachable skeg to the bottom of my Sundolphin Aruba 10 to help with tracking in windy conditions.
Not a bad idea! I wish I could offer some advice, but I've never added a skeg to a kayak. It would be cool to hear how it works.
There is far more technical reasons for having a rudder.
-A kayak hull in it's most efficient trim is naturally unstable -the side that is seeing more flow (outside of a turn) creates suction increasing the turn until water streams straight off the tail from that side. If you don't have a rudder or skeg you will trim tail down to create a skeg effect -you get tracking but lose efficiency.
-Paddling a kayak is asymmetric so you are pushing the tail of your kayak left and right alternately wasting effort -skegs improve this a little, rudders with higher aspect recover most of the energy. This is why you never see a race kayak without a rudder. The reason they are so small is that they only operate at high speed.
-Wind and waves are another excellent reason to have a rudder. I don't think he does justice to how lousy it is to paddle from just one side throwing in sweep strokes -it's abusive to your back in 5 minutes. Going down waves is another great time to have a rudder. Without a rudder you are constantly correcting coarse and risking a broach. With a rudder ridding waves is a joy!
-Even going downstream I prefer having a rudder so I can be motionless approaching wildlife. You just have to do it to appreciate the fun -the quizzical looks from wild animals as you float near are priceless.
Reasons to not have a rudder
-you don't paddle forward much, you often go backward, you don't go far, you always go out in a group that primarily talks and mingles. In this use short boats that pivot quickly work fine and there is no rudder complexity or adjustment needed.
Love your videos. Please do not retire from YT! 🙏🏻
Ha! Thank you! I'm still loving it. No retiring for me anytime in the near future. Just breaks here and there. :)
Two kayaks in my collection have drop-down skegs . They’re nice to have but I find early on I was using them too much and not developing good (defensive) kayak control. I try to only use them for slow, sneaky kayaking when I’m trying to get closer to wildlife for photos & video.
EDIT : Wilderness Systems Aspire 105 & Dagger Axis 10.5
Good design lessons the need for either.
Great video Ken. Thank you.
You are very welcome
A few weeks ago I was really happy that I added the factory rudder to my Prijon Seayak GT. We were on a tour with the club. It took us out on a good sized lake. With a force 3-4 wind moving from coming from the 1o'clock to 4 o'clock as we turned. Most of the lake leg of the trip was with the wind at 4. The water was choppy with occasional rollers probably from boats further away. Having my rudder deployed helped me keep focused on just powering through rather than waisting energy controlling my direction. It was the last mile of a 10 mile trip.
Having said that, I also tried the rudder in the closer confines of twisting canals though out 1000 island area. There the rudder, without edging, didn't help to much. But edging alone isn't doing me much good either as this is still my first season kayaking and only have some 20-30 hours in this yak so far.
Yup. That's exactly where the rudder rules! Sounds like a good adventure! :)
Thanks for your informative video. I just bought a sea eagle 480 inflatable kayak explorer, ( tandem) (14 ft) took it out twice and it handle pretty well at mission bay park in SD . I have a 10 inch fin in the bow and another in near the stern. Tracked well in 7 mph wind. I will be ordering a 2 sq meter sail and rigging from Falcon Sails soon. My kayak has a pointy stern , difficult to rig hardware to install a rudder. I know I can use my paddle to turn upwind during a tack, but seems awkward with some wind age. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Good advice Mr. Whiting!
As paddling experience increases, the paddler will find themselves in situations that can be improved by a rudder or skeg.
20+ miles of sweep strokes and corrective edging usually does the trick!
Thanks Rick... and oh so true! :)
I always learnt with out a sketch as I was to;d and I stand by this now if you rely on the skeg and that skeg no longer works for whatever reason you’ll be stuffed and in need of a tow it’s fine to use a skeg of you need it but don’t rely on it use it to make your life easier but don’t rely on it you should still be able to paddle without one but again don’t rely on it
I think if you are committed to learning good paddling technique, or already have them, go with a skeg. It allows you to go with a more versatile kayak and make paddling in certain conditions a lot easier. On the other hand, if you are only going to paddle a few times a year, you probably will not develop really good paddling technique, then get a rudder to take the frustration out of direction control. And I agree that a rudder is great to have on a long double kayak.
I bought my Wilderness Systems Tsunami 165 used for a decent price, and it came with a rudder. When I first started paddling it, I relied on the rudder to turn it, but in time I was able to turn it with edging and sweep strokes tighter than I can with only using the rudder. Now I only use the rudder when dealing with strong winds (20+ mph). While I don't use the rudder much anymore, I do like having it just in case. I find it to be a "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" accessory, especially for a longer kayak.
Thanks for sharing Wayne! I feel the same way as you.
My AirVolution has a removable skeg. It handles great. Recently I lost my skeg and in a light breeze it was very hard to control.
I hear you! I tested the AirVolution without the skeg, and it was very 'loose'. You can almost do a complete spin with a single stroke. Cool boat though!
Thanks Ken!
You bet!
Hey ken! I’ve noticed that in the kayak world, as far as sit in rec /touring., That it’s hard to find a kayak for a tall skinny person. I’m 6’3” and 170lbs. Every kayak I’ve seen that is for tall folks, also has a wider cockpit. Is there any possible way you could do a video on kayaks for beanpole humans 😂 I dig your youtube, iG, and FB. It helps because I really have no way to go sit inside these boats. The closest actual kayak shop is a 5-6 hour drive from my house.
Rudders needed for pedal or sail power. Would love a vid on sail kits. Glad to know rudder kits are avail for sailing kayaks.
That's a video I would like to see as well! I don't have any experience with sail kits. I've made some super simple sails with paddles and gear before, but that's about it.
I recently rented a kayak with a rudder for the first time and one advantage that I found is that you can still control your boat when you're not actively paddling. Sometimes you're in a narrow passage with not enough room to paddle comfortably or you're going through a lock, then you can just pick up a little bit of speed, lift your paddle and go exactly where you want to go. Or when you're checking the map, sipping on your drink or taking a photo, you can still control where you're going if you have a bit of momentum left.
I don't have space for a kayak right now, but as soon as I move into a bigger place I will make sure to get a kayak with a rudder.
Great point about the rudder.
Regarding space... There are LOTS of great portable kayaks out there that fit in small spaces! For example, check out my review of the Pakayak Bluefin 142.
Topnotch explained! Thank you
my pleasure!
I have found that a good way to correct for weather cocking is to shift the position of the paddle in my hands such that i am holding it more towards the blade of the side i want to steer towards. that way i can keep paddling with normal technique while the boat is turning automatically.
Absolutely. That's a great way to deal with it. It can get tiring if you're doing it for a long time, but it works!
I love the Dagger Stratos but the skeg is noisy when deployed. You can hear it when Ken wiggles it. But on a side note....best explanation I have ever heard on the subject.
I appreciate it!
My Stratos is the same. I assumed it was a design feature to minimise sticking. But I do find I have to check it if i have been on a gritty beach and I often launch stern first where it is safe. I find a small stone can easily push the skeg sideways and then the sideways pressure of the skeg holds it there so it is stuck until the next stop of a friend reaches over to release it.
Excellent as ever.
Thank you!
Well I’m interested in a kayak on a river that has controlled water levels by Corp of Engineering. Unless there’s a storm it’s very calm except ski and fishing boats. The river is intercostal waterways which is very wide with many creeks that remain calm. I have a lady who uses a tour kayak that seems very fast especially on the backwaters of creeks. Do you have a preference on a touring kayak and since I have canoeing experience would you recommend the skeg. Thanks loved your video!
This is excellent Ken. Thankyou. I recently upgraded to a Riot Edge 11 which has the drop down skeg and I've been experimenting in various conditions as you say. The Edge 11 has a great deployment sliding on the side of the cockpit which you can then retract in increments. Keep meaning to look on dry land how deep it is with each click! Been watching your channel all year!
Thanks! I haven't tried the Edge yet. Would you recommend it?
@@PaddleTV 100% Ken. I was originally looking at the Dagger Axis 10.5, but having previously owned a Riot, my local dealer pointed me towards the Edge 11. A little less money, same features plus deck lines and equip straps and a bow air bag. The thigh braces fit perfectly and seat has the front lift leg support, so overall a reasonably fast, very comfortable day tourer for me. For the bit of money saved on the budget I upgraded to a full carbon paddle so I'm a happy paddler. Added a Level 6 spray deck also. Maybe you can get to review and give your honest opinion some day!
@@PaddleTV; I have an Edge 13, with skeg. I don't use the skeg much, mostly for weathercocking. During my Paddle Canada Level One course, we were discouraged from using any skeg or rudder, so we'd concentrate on edging and paddle technique. With the low rear deck, re-entry is easier too.
Very good explanation
Thank you!
Great explanation. I mostly use drop stitch inflatable kayaks. They have an attachable skeg towards the stern of the kayak. I do find that in strong cross winds the kayaks are still affected by the wind which tends to turn the BOW of the kayak in the direction of the wind. So, if the wind is from the right, it pushes the front of the kayak to the left. Do you think that adding a second skeg to towards the bow of the kayak will help this issue (you can buy stick on skeg slots which you stick on with marine glue)?
I have an inflateable tandem and it has a mounded skeg both front and rear. I cut them in half and still work fine. Yes, they work
Great video, thanks. I’m guessing current can also cause weather cocking? I paddle on a few rivers and find that down stream paddling is more difficult and needs constant correctional strokes. On lakes it was downwind that causes the same too. I’m still a beginner though.
Current won't actually cause weather-cocking, but it certainly can have an impact on your kayak - especially when you are moving from eddies (calm spots on the river) into the main current, and vice versa. These video talks more about kayaking on rivers with current. czcams.com/video/tCD4mEiTD5E/video.html
I have all three types of kayaks. No rudder or scag and kayaks with these tools. I typically only use the rudder and scag when it's windy. I don't like how the boat edges with these tools deployed. They kind of make a lazy paddler out of you. Saying that when I'm 5 mi offshore I tend to use these tools so I paddle in a straight line and don't get blown off course. I paddle with people that refuse to use a rudder or even buy a boat with one. To each of their own I enjoy paddling pretty much anything. Great video keep up the good work 👍
Thanks for sharing Bryan!
I thought you may have mentioned waves. I found in certain waves offshore when they were coming over your shoulder at an angle the use of the skeg stopped the rear of the kayak sliding down the wave leaving you broadside onto it. I do find skegs jam with small stones after a lunch stop so are more problematic in that respect and there are two methods of operation the rope in the jamming cleat or the sliding bar which is easier to see where the skeg is at a glance. If I was getting a kayak which could have a rudder I would be tempted to opt for the rudder as you can always remove it until you get used to the boat without and it would probably have a higher resale value later. I do tend to prefer the skeg though.
You're absolutely right... I should have talked about waves! I was bound to forget something! I also forgot to mention toe controlled rudders that have lockable foot pegs... ah well. :)
"I do find skegs jam with small stones"... that's a feature. Skegs are actually stone storage crevasses. And if you end up with a rudder, you'll always be wondering, "what's wrong with it now?"
Just listening I realized that I'm now glad I didn't push the money for a 14' and a rudder... Wind will definitely be an issue on the open water but I do need to go up rapids first.
I may build a DIY stern skeg though... but easily detachable and no holes to drill (I have plenty of tie-out points). I love learning from other people's mistakes ;-)
The rudder on both my yaks lifts up and out of the water with a pull on the cord. To lower it, pull on the other cord.
Eg, last week end it was windy, amd we had the rudder down, but weed patches were catching it, I just simply pulled the cord to lift the rudder out of the water. Too easy
I have 2 different sit on tops, a Pelican Catch 100 and a Vibe Shear Water 125, I added a removable skeg on the Pelican and rigged it to be knocked out of the slide if it hits a rock or log and the SW125 has a rudder. The SW rudder isn't well made, I'm on my second and having to get a new one again just from normal use. The SW paddles pretty well without the rudder but the Pelican is like paddling a cork without using the skeg. Another great video with great info, thank you for these videos.
Thanks for sharing the info!
Great comprehensive video. Thank you! I see a lot of kayaks with rudders when I paddle. P.S. "Cover some serious ground". I usually paddle on water. LOL
There is ground down there somewhere, we think.
Thank You!
My pleasure!
Thank you so much
You're most welcome
My Sea Kayak has an "in between". If my skeg ist all the way down, I can use it as a rudder. It is kind of cool! I have to admit, that I am still learning, so I only have used it once.
Ya, it does sound cool-- never heard of such a thing. What kind of yak do you have. Would like to Google it.
@@keithmoriyama5421 my Kayak is a Lettmann Biskaya with a "skudder" ( mix of skeg and rudder)
My drop stitch inflatable kayak has two skegs - one at the front and one at the rear. They are removable. Your comments about weather cocking are interesting in that respect; I have a feeling that the front skeg might negate the effect of controlling the rear being blown around by the wind. I certainly get turned by crosswinds with both fitted, but it may just be to do with the fact that the kayak is high sided (despite being sold as a kayak it is actually more like a canoe in shape). In the case of my boat I suspect the real benefit of the skegs is in the additional stability they offer. I tried it without briefly and frankly it felt like it was going to throw me out at the first opportunity. So they seem to be more about increasing primary stability than anything else.
I just picked up a kayak to review that is just like the one you describe. I'm looking forward to testing it out. I've never paddled a kayak with the double fin setup.
@@PaddleTV I look forward to seeing that. A video popped up in my recommendations recently - this is the exact kayak i have. czcams.com/video/fnKJaVSm1R8/video.html
Do you think the Trak kayaks variable rocker is enough to compensate for being without skeg or rudder? Im giving it serious consideration as My clubs storage is full and I can't keep full size sea Kayak at home. Thanks for your very informative and well presented videos
I personally don't mind not having a rudder or a skeg, because I'm comfortable enough putting the kayak on a strong edge to help turn it. I also use the Trak in a wide variety of conditions, and so for me, the variable rocker far outweighs the lack of rudder and skeg. That being said, if I was doing more long tours in windy conditions, I would notice the lack of skeg or rudder more, and variable rocker wouldn't make as much difference... And so, it really depends on the type of paddling you're doing! Hope that helps.
The wave action created by the wind seems to bother my short rec. kayak more than the wind itself. Good video on a great topic.
Good point. I definitely could have talked about the effect of waves. I was bound to miss something! :)
The longer the hull (waterline), the greater longitudinal stability (tracking) I would expect.
I have 17' Greenland style kayak and it is VERY maneuvrable and I tend to use the skeg a lot because it helps with going straight. Yes, I could definitely still go straight without the skeg, but I'm lazy and my imperfect forward stroke makes me go zigzagy because the kayak is so responsive XD
Thanks for sharing! Do you use a Greenland paddle as well?
@@PaddleTV I do use a Greenland paddle! It's a custom wooden paddle that someone made for me. It would be possible for me to make it myself but I have zero wood work experience... Imo, it's the best paddle for sea kayaking. But you do need to know how to use it well, and in your video where you tried a Greenland paddle for the first time you used it wrong XD If you continue trying and look up proper GP technique you should be better quite fast though, and it would be very fun to have a follow up video. I recently traded with somebody for maybe 10 min because I was curious to try a Euro blade (been a while since I've used one) and ugh it was so annoying. Had to grip harder to keep control on it and I'm not used to a feather, and the bite in the water was so much harder on the joints (I'm not old, it's just when you're used to the effortless glide of a GP and suddenly have a big bite it's a little startling). At least I was managing better than him with my paddle. Before trading I was already much faster than him and had to slow down for him to keep up, but with my GP he just lost all his speed and could not do corrective strokes at all XD
I bought a sea kayak about a month ago, and it has both, a skeg and a rutter. I’ve actually started practicing to steer my kayak without using the rutter, but when I put my skeg up, it kind of just moves all over the place.
Ken, I’m surprised you didn’t mention one obvious con for rudders…namely when paddling through seaweed beds (e.g., in the Pacific NW) or in very shallow water (e.g. Everglades National Park), a rudder can readily get tangled up in the weeds and sea grass….bummer!
Great point Stephen! You're absolutely right seaweed beds and Lilly pad fields too.
Hey Ken what's your personal favorite kayak at the moment? Seems like you're really liking that Dagger Stratos haha
Yikes.... that's a TOUGH question to answer. You know what... I just paddled/tested a kayak last week that I really enjoyed. At the moment, I would put it in my top 3... I'm not going to be a spoiler though :). Stay tuned for that gear review. You'll know which kayak, because it made me smile like a kid while I was testing it. As for the Stratos... yes, I am a fan of that kayak. I think the 12'6 could make it into my top 5. Definitely into my top 10.
I live in Atlantic Canada at the head of a bay on Atlantic ocean. I have 2 kayaks that my Dad bought 20 years ago. We love them but one spins. No matter who is paddling you go for awhile and then you spin - it can be very annoying. Other is no problem to keep in right direction. I've been told that this is because the spinny one is probably a river kayak and the other is not. Could this be the problem? And could it be fixed with a rudder or skeg? Do you have any to recommend? This particular kayak doesn't have any holes for one, but I've seen adhesive ones on Amazon, would they be worth it?
It could be a whitewater kayak, or it could be a poorly designed recreational kayak. Does it have a name (brand and model). I wouldn't bother trying to attach a fin on the bottom. It will break off in no time. A rudder is an option, but the rudder will likely cost more than the kayak is worth. Without knowing what kayak it is, it's hard to say. What is the name of the 2nd kayak, which you like?
I have a Pelican Catch 120. It's a sit on fishing kayak. It is 11 feet 8 9:04 inches, and it does get blown around. Do u recommend?
I reviewed the 11' Catch, and thought it was a good boat for the money. You can get a better fishing kayak, but you're going to pay more for it. The kayak is very maneuverable, which means it spins a lot in the wind and doesn't travel that fast, but it's stable, comfortable, and provides a good fishing platform.
I have a Walden 12.6’ little rec touring with storage fire and aft. That I picked up used. Love that little boat but man can the winds push that boat around. I picked up a epoxy on skeg. Still have to apply it. Recently found a nice used 14’ perception monterey with drop down skeg for sale for. $475. Not sure if that might be better for the lakes up in the Adirondacks for multi day travel/camping. Any advice?
Thanks
I tried looking up the Monterey, but it seems to be discontinued by Perception, and so I couldn't get all the info I was hoping to, in order to give you a fully informed decision. That being said, from the images and the reviews, it looks pretty good! It definitely sounds like it tracks well with the skeg down, and so it should be a good upgrade from the Walden. It will definitely have more storage than your Walden, but I have a feeling you'll still have to pack light for camping trips.
@@PaddleTV thank you so much for doing that. It is an old model but from the reviews I could find I came to the same conclusion. Although this little Walden is two feet shorter it does have room for me to pack with my ultralight gear. As it would be the same for the Perception. Whether or not to pull the trigger is the question.
Thanks again. Greatly appreciated.
Unless I misunderstood if you epoxy on a skeg then it is not adjustable, unless it's is the whole box and you cut a big hole in the kayak to fit it and the control mechanism. I think a fixed skeg would cause you more issues than not having one at all. The only boats I know with permanent skegs other then the ridges in a sit on top are the surf skis and they are very specialised. Way back there were removable skegs for short boats which were like a skeg on a cone that slid over the back of the boat but these were so you could put boats like the perception dancer in the sea. They didn't catch on, certainly not in the UK.
What if I purchase a kayak that I like, which has a rudder, which I do not want? Can I just remove it? Or would the design of the kayak with a rudder would not work well without it?
I think you mentioned, in a previous vid , that they help when there is a lot of boat traffic to contend with wrt to getting swamped etc. Does anyone else agree or disagree?
I don't see rudders or skegs helping much in that way.
Is that not the skirt or spray deck rather than a skeg?
My Jackson Rouge 10 crossover kayak has a drop down skeg, its a must when covering longer strait parts of a river or lake.
How would I put a rudder on a sit on top kayak with a square transom? For reference, mine is a crescent Crew.
I wish I could help you with that, but I just don't have any experience with it.
NICE WORK!! I’m a veteran Grand Canyon river guide and would love to see some channels or episodes focused on inflatable technologies… Any suggestions?
I'm super jealous! I've only done one trip down the Grand, and can't wait to share the experience with my daughter. Not sure what you're referring with 'Flatow bowl technologies'. Can you elaborate?
@@PaddleTV ooops, that was voice recognition misfire….I changed it to “inflatable”….I have several “ducky’s” that pack up so small I can take them on a plane. I put a s keg on a couple and it works great for surfing waves in the ocean. Wish i could find a rudder kit so I could brace and steer into a curl. Dont see a lot of wave surfing kayaks modifications discussed online. would love to explore and electric motor of hydrofoil systems on kayaks too.
As he said, you really don't need either of them, just control your boat with paddles. But after paddling in different conditions, like flat calm water, white water, wind, waves, I end up putting fixed skeg on my inflatable tandem kayak all the time. It helps to control and it does not have any side effects. If I hit a rock, who cares, it is just a piece of plastic.
Makes sense!
Im about to pull the trigger on a 14ft kayak. Using for flat river day trips, maybe coastal in good conditions. Also in a small twisty river/creek (no white water)at times. Will the rudder help me on the small twisty river? or will a 14ft yak be like a barge in the smaller creek regardless of rudder ?Thanks for your videos. Binged hours of em . From Australia
A rudder will help but you won't need it unless it's windy I paddle a 14.5 ft wilderness systems 145 and have no trouble in narrow Creeks your kayak will feel small after a while they turn easy my 12year old did 3.5 km in the creek navigating through tight areas and he hasn't paddled much before he found it easier without the rudder down a longer kayak is much easier to paddle than a short one
Hey Brendan. Honestly... I find rudders more of a hinderance on creeks than anything. It won't really help you turn faster, and when have to back up and make tight maneuvers, I find they hurt more than help - especially if the creek has wood or rocks that the rudder can get hung up on. Bottom line... for your purposes, I wouldn't spend extra to get a kayak with a rudder. It's not going to be a huge asset. That being said, I wouldn't tell you to 'avoid' the rudder either... I don't think you'll be unhappy either way. Cheers!
@@Thatguy-dk8zm Thanks Steve.Guess its better to have one and not want it than vice versa.
@@PaddleTV Thanks. The kayak Im buying comes with the rudder , not optional . So it will probably stay up in the creeks and only get used on windy days on the big river. looks like nice to have ,and can always be removed I guess. Enjoy the paddling
I have skeg on my kayak and a rudder on the trolling motor, will this cause issues having both?
It should still work, although the skeg will work against the rudder a little when you're turning. Shouldn't be a problem though.
I don't trust rudders they are prone to problems (cables falling out of the stirring pulley) while skegs with their simpler mechanic are less prone to problems. So for me a kayak with a skeg is the choice. On my kayak if I forget to rise the skeg on landing it is not really a problem as it spring back in its box if hitting the sea floor.
In wave conditions, say 3 feet and higher, I believe it is far safer to not deploy... is that correct? I’ve just just done that intuitively, suspecting that a rudder will create unintended problems in larger waves, but can you comment, can a rudder be helpful in rougher waves?
That's a good question. A rudder can help control your kayak in rougher conditions, and so if you're comfortable having it deployed, then there's nothing wrong with using it in bigger wave conditions. But if you feel better about not having it deployed in those conditions, stick with that. There's no 'hard rule' here... I do both myself.
Thank you, that’s good to know. It sounds like I may need to try those conditions more, with a rudder down, get the feel. Appreciate your advice, Ken 👍
A novice question. If I row with my whole torso and apply pressure with my feet on the pegs will this not cause an issue with a rudder since the pressure would activate the rudder in the direction I am pressing on the peddle?
No. Control pegs are above the normal pegs. So putting pressure doesn't affect as long as you don't push with your toes.
Great question! You're exactly right. With many kayaks that have rudders, you lose the use of the foot pegs as a fixed platform to push on. Some of the better kayak manufacturers have fixed that problem by creating a system that allows the foot pegs to lock into place like normal, while the rudder is controlled by a secondary 'moving pedal' on top of the main pedal, which you control with your toes. This gives you the best of both worlds. I wish I had thought of talking about that in the video! :)
@@PaddleTV Thanks Ken. I will have to look and see if the wilderness system tsunami has the two sets of foot pegs or not
@@saminiemi2749 Thanks Sami will have to see if the Wilderness system tsunami has the two sets of pegs.
Could also be one pedal that tilts, which is fine too. The ones that slide to control the rudder so you can't push against the peg just for power, are pretty bad.
More cons. Using a rudder and to some degree using a skeg will make paddler lazy on learning the fundamentals of steering with paddle and body.
More pros. I do enjoy riding a wave of a passing ship when I have a rudder to control the kayak.
True. I find myself almost always using a rudder, even when it is not necessary. While that is looked down on in the kayak community, I have found that by locking both feet in a tight brace allows minute changes in the same way as the fins on a shark are always in play even though the main movement is controlled by the tail-- or in the case of a kayak edging. Especially effective in rougher water. The only downside is I often forget I have it deployed when I want increased speed.
Hi Ken
This topic is not really connected to this video, but I hope you read these comments.
In your videos you often touches on the subject of stability.
Have you done any video where you dig in to the topic of stability?
When is a high stability a pro and when is it a con?
When will a less stable kayak be the one to prefer?
I can't find any video digging into this, but I may have missed it.
/Niclas
Hi Niclas. Stability really is a personal preference. A common progression for a paddler is to start with a very stable kayak, and then as they become more confident and proficient at paddling, they desire a kayak that gives up some stability for performance (speed and edging). That being said, you don't really need to edge your kayak if you're sticking to calm water. Edging becomes a huge asset though in rougher conditions, when paddling in current, wind and waves. If you don't have any desire to paddle in those more challenging conditions, then the only reason to get a less stable kayak is to travel faster and more efficiently, which makes sense if you're doing longer trips, or if you simply enjoy speed. Hope this helps!
The best accessory to add to your kayak is about 1000# of steel.
How many For Sale ads for kayaks with the words rutter or skag have I seen ? Far too many.
My personal opinion is that for MOST kayakers, rudders are unnecessary and a dangerous nuisance. Yes, I have heard the argument that so-and-so blah-blah-blah used a rudder to make a trans-ocean kayak trip, but if you aren't that person, then take off the training wheels and learn how to kayak without a rudder. Skegs "yes" a must-have for most kayaks. Rudders in rescue situation are dangerous. They are like a metal scorpion tail sticking out the back that, in the worst case clank kayak "swimmers" in the head and in more common circumstance scratch other people's boats ... like mine. So please, learn how to edge and paddle with a skeg and your paddle.
"just lean your kayak into the wind... " At that point the video lost all credibility with kayaking advice. That advice could get someone flipped in open ocean - (kayak flips over in heavy wind, kayak gets blown away from person...). REALLY BAD ADVICE. Correct technique is use your paddle as a rudder and brace to keep kayak STABLE.. NEVER intentionally lean (tip) kayak to one side in strong wind; (strong wind causes waves / swells, and you have now compromised the kayaks stability in strong swells). Use paddle as a brace.
You're right that using your paddle as a brace can prevent a flip, but you're wrong about edging/tilting a kayak being a bad idea. You can't effectively paddle and travel forward when you're bracing, but you can paddle with your boat held on edge, which counters the effects of weathercocking. Yes, this technique requires more paddling proficiency in rough conditions, but it also works effectively when there aren't significant wind waves.