Assassination Rogue Has Fundamental Problems
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- Am I way off-base with this one? Let me know!
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
1:00 - Talent Problems
5:00 - Hero Trees
9:49 - Dungeon Gameplay
12:45 - Final Thoughts
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Not so fun fact: If a boss phases it looses the Deathstalker Mark, effectively shutting the entire hero tree down till your able to vanish to re-apply. There's 2 in raid where this is the case.
1000 iq blizzard: remove shadow dance, tie the hero talent to stealth, profit 😂
It's sad to say that it feels like too many hero talent trees are simply missing the mark. Like the idea soundeded cool on paper for a handful of iconic class archetypes, but the reality is that most seem to be disappointing.
The biggest wins from beta that I've seen are the base class and spec changes (like Survival Hunter). But too many Hero Talent trees are either at odds with their base class, pigeon-holing you into a very specific playstyle, or quite simply don't add anything of fun or substance. Being a Dark Ranger, a Deathstalker or a Druid of the Claw should be an absolute blast of a class fantasy to play, but instead they're aggressively 'meh'.
And what makes it all worse is that, for the billionth time, Blizzard have added an extra layer of balancing complexity on top of everything else that will inevitably cause problems down the line for them.
Don't get me wrong: I'd really love this concept to work. But it all smacks of another idea that hasn't been thought through in the long-term and is going to end up disappointing more people than it excites because it's trying to achieve something that it quite simply can't. And that's a real shame.
Cannot wait to play the same exact talents again with 3 entirely passive hero trees that I'll barely notice if they are even active and literally 0 new visuals. Pog
Get ready for another 2 years of the Outlaw stealth 400apm athritis build...
I get the whole thing about Stealth and buffing damage/abilities when you unstealth, I mean you're a rogue. Stealth is an essential part of the kit. Both outlaw and sub have ways around this, assa does not. I would love to see something that cools down Vanish, like bake it into Dashing Scoundrel for every weapon poison crit it lowers the cd by 1s. That way you can use Vanish as an offensive cd but also when you fail to get back into stealth for the next pack.
Also completely agree on Garrote needing to be added to Deathstalkers for assa, seems like a massive oversight.
Hero Talents as a concept are supposed to actually *be* heroic feeling: maybe referencing old Warcraft heroes, or using lore that's broader scale and interesting. You got your Riders of the Apocalypse, your Keepers of the Grove, Dark Rangers, Sunfury Mages, Templars, Archons, etc. that have far-reaching lore to pull from, are "big and flashy," have references to old Warcraft history, etc.
There's motivation when statting those out to make them cool, bombastic, functionally useful, because there's a lot riding on the reputations of these concepts. Blizz can't just make a BAD Dark Ranger (or at least, shouldn't) because that spits in the face of Sylvannas, the OG WC3 Hero, Drow Ranger, and all that derivative lore over the years, so they're motivated to actually TRY when designing it.
But Rogue? You just have generic Coin-Flip guy, generic Hidden-Blade guy, and generic Marked-For-Death guy. These aren't 'big and flashy,' they reference essentially nothing in old lore, and frankly they don't *DO* anything, and that's just okay by Blizzard, because they're made up nonsense that reflects nothing significant of the past lore, and so has no standard to meet in terms of design philosophy.
They've actively chosen to not pursue cool Rogue ideas along the lines of these other classes, like some kind of Guildmaster that summons helpful adds that could directly reference Gallywix, or some kind of Alchemist Savant that makes Bombs and better Poisons that could reference the Alchemist from WC3/DotA, or even new, but actually striking and exciting ideas like some kind of Illusionist Shadow-Magic user with Shadow Clones and Darkness clouds or a 'Serial Killer' type guy influenced by movies that like stalks his prey and leaves calling cards, takes trophies, or displays his gory kills to grant buffs/debuffs or something.
SOMETHING, ANYTHING that's actually exciting, and interesting that could motivate a design team to actually say to themselves, "Oh wait, that's COOL, let's do something COOL," instead of sitting around just tweaking a number here a number there until an entire Hero Talent tree just ends up amounting to a passive 10% damage buff with no interest, no interaction, and no FUN.
Worst thing is that it's so late in development that asking for giant overarching concept changes such as these to actually make Rogue feel COOL is useless. All they can do now is tweak a number here or there until people can squeeze blood from the stone, and then they'll move on, leaving Rogue bland and boring, but at least "functional."
If it makes you feel any better, all of the Rogue hero talents, for all rogue specs are frustrating.
You went over Deathstalker and Fatebound but Trickster "rewards you" with a proc that upgrades your Evis/Dispatch into coup, which forces you into a 1.2 second GCD finisher that locks you out of abilities, including stuff off the GCD like cloak, or kick.
Even if Rogue does damage in TWW it just isn't fun.
Damn I hope blizzard sees this video! You are 100% right. Then to top off this hero talent, they took away shadow dance..
I mean, darkest night reapplies your 3 stacks of mark over and over again, or it should based on the description. so in theory you would not run out of marks while fighting one boss, even without vanish. but this falls apart on council fights, on any fights with phases and so on. they should make blindside ambushes also apply the mark if the enemy has none.
That ethereal raid set may be the best tier set this season tho
Garotte applying deathstalkers isnt a bad thought. i think the initial idea behind it is so that you can get the priority target marked then bleeds up on prio, with the carnage talent (which was nerfed i believe targets wise as i remember garroting and silencing 5x mobs at once) you are able to spread the inital bleeds about but as you said 6 seconds makes that a very tight window and should you have to react to something and be out of position it will mess up the rotation and output. I personally run a sudden demise, carnage, arterial and kingsbane in m+ & tend to do the dragon tempered on tyrannical / raids.
Love all the guides so far though especially with the latest few being builds i like to run :D
hard agree, they reworked rogue into stealth windows, it was a flawed design and should have been rolled back and iterated with TWW. Instead, they clearly decided to allocate 0 design time for rogue in general and issues presented with the rework have only been further made worse by their hero design. Feels like they made the hero trees before the rework and never thought about a pivot.
God damn you fucking nailed it zuco....Sin has been my favorite spec for years but I just dont even play it anymore.
I still can't believe they went for a whole tree around a RANDOM BUFF such as coin flip.... Nobody and their mama wants this
Love your content. Would love to see warlock.
Deathstalker...i completely agree, the Mark should be applied via Garrote and needs Tuning. Also whats about all thats Bilder damage in the tree. Most nodes are boring.
Fatebound needs some Form of netter visual and Feedback and Numbers Tuning. Also the kapstone Mode needs a Bit of rethinking. What If you have more than 30 Seconds mandatory downtime?
Playing deathstalker in M+ is a bit of a meme right now. Which is unfortunate because deathstalker seemed the coolest of the 3.
Fatebound is better, only because its so passive, its like its not even there.
I dont think some of the people who work on the classes know about the classes they work on. I remember when they had a conduit in SL for WW monk that only work if you did the same attack twice when WW monk mastery activates only when you dont use the same attack twice.
One of the most frustrating things as rogue is not being able to stealth between pulls we have a zero Aoe without carnage and if a tank likes to chain pull were absolutely screwed. I main assa and I always will but it's incredibly frustrating how hard you have to work to just do pretty average damage
Indiscriminate carnage should be mandatory we physically can't aoe without it so why is it mandatory
Because blizzard based the hero talents off of abilities that both specs tied to then have in common like ambush or stealth. Assassin rogue relies heavy on dots while the other 2 specs not so much so kinda hard to combine a dot spec with a bursty spec
@@thelastspectre8141 There are Hero specs that have the same buffs, but trigger those buffs off different abilities (Druid if the Claw Feral vs Bear). It wouldn't be hard for them to make it Ambush for Sub vs. Garrote for Sin Rogue
@ZucoWoW I agree but it's blizzard we are talking about, they will probably make it that way sometime after the expansion drops but the question is why does it take them that long to notice. Especially when they have all this "feedback" like any casual player is wandering why sin rogues number 1 bleed/damaging ability is sidelined
A rare critical Zuco makes an appearance! I love it! Feel the exact same as you, the over reliance on stealth for Assa and Outlaw has caused me to put my rogue aside. Both specs already have a good identity and all the stealth stuff just ruins it for me. Great points with the hero talents too.
You dont take double vanish as sin rogue, or the other two on that right side of the class tree. I mean, you could, but its a waste of 4 points. echoing reprimand is the better choice
I wanted to main Assasination, but then remembered that if the tank doesn't let me restealth between packs in M+ my damage will be way worse. So yea, goodbye rogue.
finally someone noticed it
The ambush part ist very shitty. Think fatebound ist better. A passive in the Background and you do your standart Rotation.
Been watching your coverage and realized I was not subbed yet. Just subbed. As a DK/ Rogue main pvp/pve I can say rogue feels soooooo bad right now on the beta. It actually really feels so off putting.
I appreciate it... On the bright side, DK is looking really good!
Those buffs to ambush and mut are hilariously painful 😖
Do a Demo lock please
Rogue main, you nailed the problems, now what will blizzard do? NOTHING. Could at least band aid it by procing deathmark off of garrote.
how did i know I was gonna see you here pox, still bad.
I played it a bit.. very boring tree imo