Spiritual Power in Anime is Misunderstood
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- čas přidán 24. 04. 2024
- The Big 3 of Anime are always in debates as who is the best and who is the strongest. The problem lies in people's inability to be genuine and have good discussion. They all have the same abilities fundamentally and we need to treat them the same
#anime #naruto #onepiece #big3anime #bleach #luffy #ichigo #debate #powerscalinganime #charka #haki #animelife #animefan #manga - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I'm pretty sure Aizen couldn't sense Ichigo was in a higher dimension of power and being than him though I'm going off the anime
In the manga it was theorized but never confirmed that Ichigo reached a higher level but that was Aizen trying to cope
@@TheOldWeeb Nope, its straight fact. It is hard confirmed that is what happened. Dangai Ichigo was not him sacrificing his spiritual power for raw strength, that was Aizen's theory that he made up to cope. Ichigo had evolved past Aizen. The way its framed is that being the actual answer and the "raw strength" being Aizen cope.
I agree for the most part but Haki from one piece seems to be a power fuelled by will rather than any form of spiritual energy. Bleach Reishi/Reiatsu seems related to both energy produced by souls and non-physical matter that is related to souls. While Naruto’s Chakra is physical and mental energies and sometimes natural energy in the world. Naruto and Bleach’s systems are very similar regardless and can be treated as essentially the same. I wouldn’t want to treat either like Haki though since it’s seemingly fuelled by something different from the others and functions significantly more different than Reishi/Reiatsu and Chakra. Overall I agree with most points and good video!
I can see how you would think that but based on statements and use, i would say its more probably than not that they are all the same in the Big 3
@@TheOldWeeb Can you be more specific, from my knowledge Haki is explicitly stated to be will based
One Piece Chapter 597 is when Rayleigh explains haki to luffy and the audience. The translation is debated because he says its a manifestation of ones spirit into either armor or senses.
Conquerors Haki is the use of a dominant will over others who are weak minded or weak will. I believe thats where people get confused. We even see elements of Conqueror haki in naruto with gaara, orchimaru and kurama
Will power comes from the soul so its still spiritual energy
@@younggenah4940 can you prove will power comes from the soul?
blud really just said aizen wasn't smart like he didn't create something that makes will reality
You do realize he just handicaps everyone around him and the one person he didnt do that to, beat him
aizen didn't originally make it he copied the actual smart guy kisuke and stole his work again then fused his hyogoku with kisuke own. aizen isn't as smart as people like to think , he's just a troll , if aizen was so smart , why was he sneaking around with everyone under his control?
@@TheOldWeeb if it weren't for kisuke he would've beat ichigo and you know it
@@halojeff15 still created white. and you act as if his half of the hogyoku isn't still a crazy feat. and everyone knows kisuke is smarter than him but he's easily still one of the smartest characters in anime
@@j413n_4 yes he created white , but he's still not the smartest in all of anime or even in bleach, aizen at best 3rd place in bleach. white was just an experiment and he accidentally created ichigo not on purpose
ichigo had too much for aizen to sense. aizen made an error.
Then explain ichigo sister being able to sense Aizen when he appeared
Would like a direct time of the moment in question because it seems to me you are the one who didnt watch
@@TheOldWeebIt was specifically stated that Aizen lowered his spiritual energy so that he’d be able to interact with ‘2 dimensional beings’ aka people not on his dimensional tier AP wise
Rereading Chapter 409 where Gin makes the Statement about Humans vs Spiritual Pressure, the fact that not everyone is dropping like flies while Ichigo friends are able to run and sense him even with him "nerfing" himself, it still shows that Naruto characters wouldnt succumb to the mere presence of the Upper Tiers of Bleach since we see a similar effect in Naruto with just the regular Bijus or even Orchimaru in Base
@@TheOldWeeb Biju’s and Orochimaru don’t directly attack the soul, Bleach characters do. Reiatsu crush isn’t AP based, it’s soul hax/soul hax resistance based. That’s why Tatsuki who has a little bit of spiritual energy which grants soul hax resistances is able to resist Yammy’s soul eating attack while regular humans who don’t have soul hax resistance can’t. Her AP isn’t much higher than theirs. She’s like athletic human tier at best and they’re ranging from normal human to athletic human level themselves (hundreds of souls) compared to Yammy’s AP. But it’s soul hax resistance that matters
If only all powerscalers could agree on this, then vs battles would be more fun and easier to go over. This is generally how I go about it when talking about vs battles.
They arent going to because they rather make bad faith arguments
Aizen was mistaken about ichigo discarding his riatsu, ichigo at that point was so superior to aizen that he couldnt sense his riatsu, much like characters such as isshin were unable to sense aizen. Thats why he is able to use mugetsu which is a riatsu based attack.
How am I supposed to watch this video when in the first minute you show your lack of understanding about Bleach, Naruto and One piece and the video is you talking about them?
You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. I just provide evidence with manga statements
In Naruto, chakra was stated to be something created by balancing physical and mental/spiritual energy.
Then it got turned into something innate, then Kishimoto brought back physical and spiritual energy, when Naruto was learning sage mode.
So I understand the confusion when there is inconsistent writing.
Its not confusion. It is consistent writing in terms of the power system. I even cited the times it was expressed
@@TheOldWeeb Explain how it is consistent? Because I clearly remember how earlier in Naruto it was explained that chakra is something created, by charka kneading, that it was not natural to the human body.
However when Kakashi taught Sasuke the Chidori he was talking as if chakra was something that you were born with?
So when sakura did her part, she explained what charka is and how it works. do you have a chapter of the kakashi statement because as i recall, kakashi only talked to naruto about nature elements in shippuden which also doesnt change how charka works
@@TheOldWeeb No I don't have the exact chapter, how are you going to do a video on a power system without reading through the series again? That hurts your credibility.
And yes I know Sakura explained how chakra worked, but no where in here explanation did she imply that chakra is similar to stamina.
I think you have it a bit backwards. You made the claim that i was wrong based on something a character said, you need to provide proof of that otherwise you are just saying a counterclaim with no evidence. Physical energy is your stamina, dont try and get semantical, it makes your argument completely bad faith
I might be confused but in bleach if someone is on a other/higher level, like so ridiculously strong than someone then they couldn’t be sensed anymore and the scene of aizen not being able to sense ichigo was bc his power was on another level even higher than aizen and his hubris mistakes that as I oh go gave up his power bc there was no way that Ichigo could be stronger than him in his mind
That gets contradicted by the other statements and the events of Tybw. The rules of bleach only seem to get brought up in relation to verse battles vs their own verse
@@TheOldWeeb Naw I looked it up chapter 405-408 there were statements that Aizen’s spiritual was no longer able to be sensed because of he transited and had so much power and that Ichigo could sense his vast spiritual pressure difference bc he was close enough in power I even tho it sent Ichigo into despair
Okay thank you for actually providing Chapter evidence for a claim. Hard to find on here but from rereading those. There is evidence that shows that Yourichi, Kitsue and Ichigo dad were able to deal damage and perceive Aizen but couldnt do fatal damage because of him being on another level while ichigo was able to feel him even in a weaken state.
Now this could be foreshadowing for Ichigo going into Dangai but there is no reason at that point ichigo should have been relative to him to even sense him which would again show a contradiction in the verse. Either way it shows that you might not scale directly to your oppnent but being able to damage them or affect them in any way gives a lot of credibility to the ability for Naruto characters to fight Soul Reapers.
@@TheOldWeeb oh I agree with the sentiment that if in the series it’s called life force I.e. you did when you run out of it means it’s all the same thing, that’s the biggest reason I think gon in some way can still use nen bc he practically died after giving up all his nen.
But strictly in that portion of bleach we disagree with what the author was implying but we both agree that there are definitely inconsistencies. I say aizen’s conclusion on how ichigo got stronger was wrong because of hubris and ichigo simple evolved passed him by such a huge margin, and if I’m not wrong I think you believe his wrong conclusion was bc he didn’t know about ichigo being a quince or how his quince powers would effect aizen
Exactly which is why i think the Verse Battles of Bleach and Naruto needs to be more nuance
Gear 5 pop a bucket of paint and a baseball cap from no where he clearly has toon force 🤦🏾♂️
Of course they are. It's not like weebs understand the historical origins of ki/chi.
well lol
Oh nah, i GYATT to see this aizen vid now.
You really want me to go in on the Real MC of Bleach like that?
@@TheOldWeeb absolutely. I fuck wit aizen heavy, but Im hoping u bring up how he would fare Ina fight against Yuha.
Video is in production
Waiiiittttt???? That thing about aizen not sensing ichigo sp i thot it was because it was in another plane or somewhere where he couldnt sense it, dangai is deadass just raw strength??
Aizen said it himself. Ichigo forgo his spiritual pressure for raw strength in order to fuse with the Getsuga so he could perform Mugestsu which is why it took away all his powers
@@TheOldWeeb I see where you may have been confused. Aizen statement was an assumption from observing that he couldnt sense anything from Ichigo. The rules of spiritual preassure you mention still held true in this fight in fact it was huge focus in relation to Aizen's hubris. How we can make a distinction on whether or not if Aizen is stating facts or observations is easy since there is a lot of evidence the biggest being as I mentioned Aizens hubris at this point. Aizen severly fumbles and miscalculates his fight against Ichigo. This battle psychologically humbled Aizen to the extreme. I wont go into the full fight in detail but if you need more clarifications/evidence let me know.
Aizens hubris - Before stepping foot in karakurka town we know Aizen's ego is through the roof with one example being him stating he is no longer on guard once he entered in that cacoon form. We see evidence of Aizen not being on gaurd through kisukes, gins, and ichigos battles.
True statements - In the chapters before dangai ichigo arrives we were being fed info about spiritual preassure even Isshin stated how they couldnt sense Aizen anymore and only someone on the same level can percieve Aizen. Before going into dangai, Isshin is suprised Ichigo can sense him which give us indication how strong Ichigo really is.
Aizens flawed assesments throughout the fight - Believing the swing of his sword caused the mountains to pop. We see Aizen suprised at ichigo using his bare hand to stop his sword calling it miracle. When witnessing the mugetsu, Aizens thought process of the rules of spirtual preasure are shown and only then starts realzing maybe ichigo was on a higher plane than he was this whole time but refuses. On top of that even going as far as to cope exclaiming how no human could surpass him.
First i must give you props for forming a concise argument and detailing out your points compared to someone else in this comment section.
Now yes i know there is the speculation on the fact Aizen believed Ichigo must be higher in order to not be able to sense but my counterpoint to that is that in Bleach, someone can be stronger than you and not be able to sense their spiritual pressure but it doesnt stop the fact that ichigo took damaged when he blocked Aizen with his arm thus they would have had to be relative.
Another factor is that we know that ichigo is part quincy and through TYBW we see many quincies of varying degrees go toe to toe with many of the Gotei 13 and i dont believe they are all equal in strength or that much different at all but the Haxes of the Quincies worked different that the Soul Reapers. The only evidence we have seen of a Hax being outright negated was Soi Fan vs Aizen. Every Kenny didnt stop Gremmy's abilities but simply broke his confidence and won as a result.
My last point before i turn it back to you, I believe looking back with the new information about Ichigo heritage plus how Aizen's existence didnt kill Ichigo friends when he went to the real Kakura Town shows that the Bleach Verse rules arent set in stone all the time and have been adjusted based on plot
@@TheOldWeeb My bad i didnt see the notif earlier ill be faster next time. I hoped it was concise i wrote it late at night like now haha. id like to mention i can only work with things up to cour 2 of the blood war.
To start off, Ichigo was definitely on a higher plane than Aizen. In chapter 420 we get a panel of Aizen's train of thought making that conclusion when he saw mugetsu. Tatsuki also recognized she couldn't sense Ichigo while she could Aizen (who had purposely lowered his sp to torment them). In that panel also referenced isshins statements. The transcendence concept was also visited briefly with kenpachi v gremmy where soul reapers that couldnt sense kenpachi until they had spotted him.
I see why dealing damage to someone you cant sense may look like a counterpoint but its really not considering their attack potency is that much impressive.
One example being isshin not being able to not sense Aizen but was able to crack aizens cocoon state. But as you mentioned, they must be relative in strength to be capable of that otherwise weaker opponents wouldnt be able to damage someone of a higher plane. Aizens control over sp is very proficient. We saw that rando get shredded when Aizen walked by after arriving in karakura town. Aizen also demonstrated even when he lowered his sp enough to be sensed, lower level beings couldn't get close to him not even the soul reaper in charge of karakura town wanted to get close. Even spirit crushing grimmjow at the espada meeting.
In this battle against aizen, ichigo being part quincy was exclusively more to do with the unnatural synergy the final getsuga tenshou provided. Learning more about old man zangetsus being and what he was capable of doing at the end of cour 1 cleared up questions on how ichigo survived kenpachis encounter and how much power is dormant within ichigo.
Two other moments of negation that came to mind were kenpachi v ichigo and ulquiorra v ichigo.
The spiritual power rules still apply to quincy hax. For gremmy's situation, those two were relative in sp kenpachi still on top. Btw there is more to gremmys loss of confidence being broken resulting in his loss but thats a different topic.
Np for the time, i enjoy actual real back and forth.
I can understand what you are saying that sensing a being vs harming a being are different but a lot of bleach scalers use the level a character is at for a basis of strength/durability vs the haxes and powers of other characters so my problem has been that lack of consistency if Ichigo was so higher than Aizen at the time, the fact that he took damage at all shows that you dont need to be act the level of your opponent if your attacks bypass their durability for example how truth seeking orbs in Naruto would destroy any spiritual being the same way Quincy weapons kill Souls.
I agree that Aizen can control his pressure to such a degree that he can choose whether or not to be expelling all of it at once and the impact that it can have on the environment but the degree at which bleach fans talk about as if his mere existence crushes the world in Naruto or One Piece when at least in Naruto, the existence of the Ten Tails when it came back was felt throughout the entire planet while we only ever see Karakura Town being affected by any Soul Reaper.
To say lastly on my part, with the knowledge of Aizen's control of his spiritual pressure, ichigo never has displayed that kind of control or ability so even if i were to agree that ichigo was actually higher, why wouldnt he be leaking out his pressure to such a degree that everyone would feel him. When Yhwach absorbed the soul king, his mere presence was warping the environment around him
w analysis
I hope this will help become the standard for Anime Debates
my first youtube troll lol i guess im really starting to make it
Aizen is smart , ish
Luffy does not read the intent of his opponent, that's Naruto sage mode. Future-sight haki needs to be actively used. So Luffy not saving Sentomaru is a screw up on his part, but he didn't see it coming.
Aizen's shikai is not genjutsu. Aizen's reiatsu doesn't enter a person and manipulate them. Genjutsu is chakra entering your body and tampering with your senses. If we equate them, then every soul reaper in Bleach is immune to Aizen's shikai because their zanpaktou spirit could assist them in escaping it. Obviously that isn't the case. Kyōka Suigetsu doesn't leave something in you for you to remove. It was still affecting the vizards 100 years later with no contact with him, even through their hollow side surged, and being injected with quincy shit from Urahara. If surging or altering your energies could free you from it, the vizards would have still been free of it.
You don't need to be equal to someone to hurt them in Bleach, just within a tier of them.
I have to ask how much you read. ICHIGO DID NOT LOSE HIS REIATSU BEFORE FIGHTING AIZEN. IT WAS A COPE. HE LATER ON IN THE SAME FIGHT REALIZES WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON.
Like, to equalize these powers you have to give every Naruto character durability based on their chakra, Qunicy become way stronger because nature energy and gain intent sense, nearly everyone Aizen ever fought is immune to his ability, Lilie Barro's entire ability can't work in his own setting, etc, etc.
For the sake of conversation it is useful to just equate chakra = haki = reiatsu But not in the way you are doing.
reiatsu defense should be dealt with by comparable chakra/haki as well as being able to deal with the pressure and such.
These are the concession we make. To assume a level of common sense. Not rewriting the powers of a setting to buff or nerf them before the fight.
Okay you said a lot so lets go point by point.
1. The point of the statement was for people who use Haki as a catch all for perception and that was a debunk for it
2. The fundemental power of Aizen is the same as a genjutsu in that you are manipulating the senses of your target thus you have an advantage over them. It doesnt need to "enter" them and not all genjutsu require charka to be placed inside a person.
3. Activating abilities in bleach doesnt effect their resistences because that was never established in the verse so yes you can activate shikai, bankai, hado, etc regardless of power level but the effects they have a based on how you scale to the person you use them on like how soi fan instant kill didnt work on Aizen.
4. I have read all of Bleach and even in the chapter he floated the idea of what happened but didnt confirm that ichigo was on a higher level than him. Also, naruto characters already have durability based on charka which is why a lot of ninjas dont start to show damage till they are running low.
5. They way i am doing it is the most common sense as well as fair since i didnt take away any of the abilities from the verses. I simply applied the pros and cons of all them so thus abiltites that are defensive for the verses always apply but the rules of combat do not like the whole "be on my level" aspect of bleach.
Luffy literally reads the intent of his opponent. Regular observation Haki does that. Go re-read Skypeia, Amazon Lily, and Rayleigh's explanation. It's stated on panel.
so why didnt he do that for Lucci
@@TheOldWeeb Context people. 1. Observation Haki isn't on all the time
2. When Luffy's in G5 it makes him want to play around. It was explicitly stated that the personality of Zoans can overtake the user's mind in awakening.
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I am not saying its on all the time, what i am saying is that we have seen evidence of Luffy not paying attention but killer/malicious intent appeared and he reacted to it. We have seen other Zoan's awakenings and even with that it doesnt dispute the point of making
Spiritual ≠ Soul which is something most people don’t get. In Naruto and One Piece, Soul Hax is treated as something special beyond what Chakra/Haki is normally capable of dealing with. Big Mom’s Soul hax and Rinnegan are treated very differently from other kinds of Haki/DF and Chakra based abilities.
In Japanese, spirit is more akin to willpower and resolve. It’s like ‘That kid’s got spirit’ rather than your actual literal soul based kind of power. Which is why Naruto, One Piece, and even Dragon Ball distinctly separate soul based abilities and haxes from their blanket spiritual energy, and why in most cases, people that can withstand their power systems conventionally have trouble with soul based hax
Bleach does have both a spiritual and soul based energy system that’s applied as a blanket across the verse that everyone could use
Kyoka Suigetsu and Sharingan don’t work in the same way. Sharingan affects the 5 physical senses yes, and things like Tsukuyomi affect space and time within someone’s mind’s perceptions. Kyoka Suigetsu affects the 5 senses, the 6th sense of spiritual energy sensing, the perception of time, and most importantly, they all work on a soul based level rather than just physically. Every ability in Bleach gets the extra added layer of direct soul hax
When Aizen fought Ichigo, he never gave up his spiritual power. What actually happened was Ichigo’s spiritual energy was on a higher dimensional tier than Aizen. This is confirmed in the Fullbring Arc where it was directly stated the Combat Pass was analyzing and absorbing Ichigo’s spiritual energy even during Mugetsu which the anime directly shows
As for Naruto vs Sasuke, the Chidori was tanked by Naruto’s ridiculously superior stats and the KCM Cloak.
But even if you argue that, energy attack from Bleach would still affect 6 Paths users because it would shred their souls apart which most Naruto characters done have resistance to on the same tier as Bleach soul hax. They can resist their souls getting pulled out and TSO’s separating the soul from the physical body while destroying both, but their soul hax resistance stops at the tier of what the Reaper Death Seal does…cutting the soul and ignoring physical durability etc
Saying Spiritual doesnt Equal Soul is major cope and you are just trying to undermine the Ability of Six Paths to save your argument of Bleach vs Naruto.
Sharingan and Kyoka Suigestu work the exact same way and the perception of time is stated multiple times within Naruto as well with Tsukuyomi like how when Naruto fought the Itachi Clone along with Inzamani.
Lastly, Naruto's KCM and stats wouldnt prevent him from taking damage from chidori as we saw him in multiple fights with KCM 1 and 2 take damage from the other tailed beasts as well as Two-Eye Obito but after 6 paths, he didnt take any damage from non-six paths users. The fact that sasuke chidori was regular is the sole reason he didnt take damage. Also, truth seeking orbs would quite literally negate all forms of kido and hado against soul reapers while also destroying them the same way quincy weapons can kill soul reapers permanently
@@TheOldWeeb Dawg, the unified MMA rules say that effective damage include strikes that decrease your opponents spirit. Does that mean MMA fighters damage their opponents souls?
Why are soul based abilities in One Piece and Naruto considered a completely separate and higher tier of hax? Like the Soru Soru or Brook’s abilities? Or the fact that Brook and Law who doesn’t have Haki anywhere near Big Mom’s level but have soul hax can damage her homies but people like Luffy and Kidd can’t? Or in Naruto’s case, the Reaper Death Seal? Tsunade’s boyfriend’s technique? The Rinnegan Soul Pull? Edo Tensei?
If Chakra flat out granted the ability to attack and damage souls, then shinobi would be able to kill Edo Tensei via chakra’s soul based capabilities
Sharingan and Kyoka Suigetsu don’t work the same. I didn’t say that it could affect the sense of time, I said Tsukuyomi does. I said that the Sharingan cannot affect souls. The Infinite Tsukuyomi which is the most potent Genjutsu in the verse from a Dojutsu that includes but surpasses the Sharingan and even includes the Rinnegan cannot affect Edo Tensei because they are souls while they can affect every other living being. Even beings of pure chakra can be affected by Genjutsu, but not Edo Tensei
As for Naruto, the only person he fought that didn’t have 6 Paths Chakra was Sasuke. The reason the Chidori didn’t pierce through but still damaged Naruto is because Naruto’s stats in KCM were ridiculously higher than Sasuke’s to the point where a bloodlusted Sasuke needed to absorb all of the Biju’s power to match evenly with a holding back Naruto. Chidori has been shown to be less effective against people stronger than the user. Raikage and Killer B being the prime examples where Sasuke even with a spear hand could barely pierce V1 Ay’s skin and Sasuke with an open palm against B (like he used against Naruto) didn’t do anything to B piercing wise but shocked him because he was drenched in water. Later on in Boruto, the Kage and Sasuke were able to affect the Otsutsuki with Ninjutsu and only were worried about them absorbing it, not being immune. And Sasuke’s Susanoo, which is a Dojutsu based Ninjutsu chakra avatar after it got buffed to be in a similar tier to Naruto via the Biju and Indra’s Arrow were able to harm Naruto
If you verse equalize Naruto and Bleach…then yes TSO’s can negate Kido. But if you don’t…which your video is about not equating different verses spiritual energy systems…then they can’t since TSO’s specifically negate ninjutsu via Yin-Yang release
In verse equalization, TSO’s can damage Bleach souls but hasn’t shown the capability to erase them as all Bleach souls can recover from attacks that specifically attack the soul. They have layered soul damage and soul damage resistance. Naruto doesn’t have layered soul hax offense and resistances, so any attack that hits the soul would destroy their souls as they haven’t shown the ability to heal or regenerate.
If we assume that TSO’s have enough soul hax layers to harm Bleach characters, they’ve even shown to be able to heal their souls like regular people heal injuries, hollows and people that use Kaido can regenerate etc
Quincy arrows and Kido like Hado 54 can existence erase souls that do have the ability to heal, and even then they don’t one shot kill if they’re relative in power. So Bleach characters have layered soul hax resistances and resistance to soul based existence erasure
There is different tiers of haxs and abiltities in all the verses, i didnt say that wasnt the case but in relation to Brook, Dan from Naruto and other Characters bypassing defenses, those were specific matchup related abilities/fights, like how Luffy beat Enel without haki because he was made of Rubber. Enel was clearly superior to Luffy at the time but luffy had a built in counter.
Naruto characters did beat the edo several times but the whole purpose of the jutsu is that they keep coming back unless you seal them away. Yin-Yang Release isnt an everyday techinque so no not every single ninja can permanently kill Edos but it doesnt change what the verse itself can do since we have seen people Resist Soul Based abilities multiple times.
Control of your five senses is literally the same abilities of both the Sharingan and Kyoka Suigetsu. The degree for how long they last varies yes but what they fundamentally do isnt different. Thats like me saying a cero and a biju bomb are different despite both being a mass of spiritual energy concentrated into a blast.
Again to debunk this, Sasuke Chidori has been negated by "Better" lightning users and Naruto having six paths powers. I believe you just assumed that Momoshiki has the same abilities and resistances as Kayuga which is false due to the fact that she ate the fruit containing Shibai chakra and evolved to a being superior to Momo which is why he took damage from Regular Ninjutsu but Kayuga didnt.
Last point, The explantion of Yin-Yang release is all about how one manipulates spiritual energy to give form or take form away. TSOs destroying the edos to the point that Minato had no arms in his spiritual body when returning to the pure lands shows it was Soul Erasure. The problem with your last claim is that within the verse of bleach that is the rule for the characters but not the rules for the power itself. There is no defined ability that says "Resist Soul Erasure" all we have is "Be on a higher level" to resist abiltiies and since that only appears in Bleach, for a verse battle, we have to use only defined abilities, haxs and stats
@@TheOldWeeb What I’m saying about Brook, Big Mom, and the soul hax users from Naruto bypassing defenses is that literally everyone from Bleach has Soul hax that bypass defenses, and to a much higher degree than what has been shown in OP and Naruto. Like the Rinnegan pulling souls out slowly is an inferior hax to a hollow from like chapter 3 hitting someone and sending their soul flying out their body. Big Mom extracting souls from people and being limited to fear whether they’re stronger or weaker is inferior to Yammy being able to indiscriminately pull out the souls of anyone around him that doesn’t have soul hax resistance. The reaper death seal cutting your soul and permanently rendering the part of its soul you cut useless and then bfr-ing it to whatever dimension it resides in is the same level of hax as a Shinigami’s zanpakuto cutting your soul directly and bfr-ing your soul to the Soul Society or Hell etc
The Naruto characters didn’t ‘beat’ the Edo, they destroyed their physical bodies. They weren’t destroying their souls but the Edo Jutsu kept reviving their souls, they were just straight up unable to damage the Edo’s souls
What Soul based abilities have we seen Naruto characters resist several times? The only Soul Hax I remember them resisting is the ability to get their souls pulled out of their bodies. But attacks that target the soul directly offensively like reaper death seal and TSO’s shred through them. With Naruto and Madara resisting TSO’s because they’re nigh immune to Ninjutsu (not soul based spiritual energies in general) but someone on their level like Sasuke can’t physically touch a TSO
Again, Sharingan’s limit is that it doesn’t affect souls. Even the Rinnesharingan using Infinite Tsukuyomi can’t affect souls, but KS by nature of being used by a Bleach character who all deal with souls…affects souls.
The better lightning user argument can be used for Ay, but B wasn’t using lightning release and was drenched in water when he got hit. And even if you use the argument that they don’t want to kill B, Sasuke first hand saw a much weaker Jinchuriki (Naruto in Part 1) heal from getting completely run through the chest via Chidori with intent to kill, on top of having a healer on the team.
As for TSO’s and Yin-Yang, I don’t disagree that it damaged the soul, what I am saying is that TSO’s are on the level of a basic attack in Bleach. If both Alive and Edo Minato stood there, didn’t have his chakra and durability flared up, there and let someone as weak as chapter 1 Shinigami Ichigo cut his arms off, he also wouldn’t have them when returning to the pure lands because all Bleach attacks hit the soul. Bleach characters that have regen can regenerate their souls from being damaged and Bleach characters that don’t can revive lost parts of their souls with Kaido. ‘Regular’ injuries to the soul can be healed over time like a human’s natural healing. This isn’t the case in Naruto, so we can’t just assert that a TSO would just permanently erase a Bleach soul because Bleach souls get hit with soul destruction all the time as each attack does that. Bleach has shown higher layers beyond regular soul destruction such as various forms of existence erasure, subatomic soul based matter destruction etc. TSO’s specifically in their soul hax application is just any other attack in Bleach.
If you do verse equalization then it gets other properties like matter destruction and power nulling techniques and the like, but in terms of soul hax only, it’s just any other attack
If you don’t get what I’m trying to say, it’s like this. Say in one verse, a character can attack with heat hax, and everyone in the verse is resistant to heat, so their attacks do normal damage, and if they do severe damage, they can be healed from. In another verse, someone has heat hax but nobody resists it, so anyone who gets hit with their attack gets vaporized. But you take the person from Verse B and put him in Verse A, and his heat attacks are just like everyone else’s. But then Verse A has people that can vaporize people even with their heat hax resistances. Verse A is Bleach, Verse B is Naruto, and replace heat hax with soul hax.
You said a lot there and there are some points i agree and disagree with but i do like the logic of the last point so lets unpack that. Natsu is Immune to Fire, it doesnt hurt him, he literally eats it, would it be far-fetched to say he can eat Yamamoto's fire? I dont believe it would be because the nature of his ability allows him to not be damaged by Fire.
To be fair, Bleach Character do damage the soul but they are recycling the energy into the system to help them become cleansed. This is why Quincy and Soul Reapers beef because Quincies were actually destroying souls and my point is the TSOs are functionally the same as Quincy weapons. You keep trying to seperate Chakra from Spiritual but you cant because its consistent with Spiritual energy. Point of this is how 8 gates guy damaged Madara not by using jutsus but using Chakra to enhance his Physical Stats which i believe should be the forefront of any verses battle where the power systems are virtually the same.
Lastly, Minato not having his arms in relation to how Orchimaru lost the use of his arms because his Soul Arm was sealed away, showed that you can damage/destroy parts of the soul in Naruto verse. The other Soul based Ability is the Human Path, The Battle of Naruto vs Kurama, Ino's whole moveset, and Dan's ability. I understand the points you are making in regards to how things work in bleach but that is kinda the point i am making that I only care about defined abilities vs rules of the verse. What do Databooks say and what do they prove or disprove