Fantastic tutorial! I learned more about radial engines than years of watching the History Channel. More and more respect for the people that won the great war. 👍
@@DieselThunderAviation you basically made me go from hating the plane thinking it's slow being frustrated to a it point where I realize it can haul ass and work at the same time 😅
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! And I don't plan on stopping with this series. AS long as they keep developing warbirds for DCS I'll keep them coming! The next one that I'm working on is for the Spitfire.
I realize it's been a while since you posted this but I just bought the P-47 and wanted to know more about the engine management. Thanks for the video it's very informative, as well as the article on Radial engines. I have the I-16, so to answer your question I would say the issue with windmilling and bearing damage is not modeled. I started out at 2000m, pulled the throttle all the way back. The RPM drops from 2250 to 1600~. I push over into a dive and the rpm comes back up to 2250-2300. At the bottom of the dive I push the throttle back up and climb back to 2000m. I repeated that 5 times and at the end brought the engine back to cruise power, 80 Hg, 1800rpm and let it run for a few minutes. No change in oil temps or pressure, steady rpm.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed them! Thanks for the info on the I-16, I picked that one up a while back but never tested the bearing damage in that. From what I understand, Eagle Dynamics adjusted the bearing damage in the P-47 so it's not as bad as before. You'll still damage them, just takes longer to affect the engine. The effect still scales with severity, but you won't kill the engine with light windmilling.
The Windmilling/Bearing Damage is crushing me on my RTBs, every dang time. It seems to be the one major thorn in my side. Missed the note about the forum post, trying to make sense of that now.
Excellent breakdown, thank you. Although it's not the reason why, the 'Jug' could also stand for all the juggling the pilot has to manage with the various engine settings ! I'm reading a book on a P-47 Squadron in Europe, and watching this increases my admiration more of those who flew them in combat.
I couldn’t imagine sitting in one for hours heading into combat, managing a complex aircraft, and wondering if I’d make it back. Huge ampunt of respect for the aircrew that did it for real!
Great video! The Thunderbolt pilots in the 56th would train by flying from one end of England to the other, adjusting the engine controls to get the best airspeed possible.
Thanks for this, been runninng hot and out of Fuel on the first actual Wolfpack Mission, was frustrating, gonna give it another go after work today, hopefully make my RTB finally. 😂
My pleasure, glad it was helpful! If speed isn’t a concern for your mission, you can always take advantage of lean cruise and really save some fuel. I have a video specifically for fuel use here: czcams.com/video/SNKKE2OszqE/video.htmlsi=QsKwcLNOywg5Cn7o
@@DieselThunderAviation Sweet, I think I checked that one out, after I ran out of Fuel just after the call for RTB on Mission 1. I thought I was good this morning when I had more than Half of main tank on my way Back to base...tried to ease up on the engine by backing off the Booster...and about 5 seconds later, looks like I spun the Main Bearing. Not sure where I went wrong, my temps looked great up until then. Ah well...can't learn if you don't fail I guess. 😂
Thinking about why the oil and intercooler switches are reversed from the readout, I wonder if it’s because your arm would be in the way of the indicator when you’re holding the switch. Look under your arm when using the intercooler switch, and above your arm for the oil switch.
Great info. I've read your article on the main bearings and it is a very good piece of information. These are very complex machines, more than people would usually think of them and require lot of training and adjustment to it. This video has brought much information I didn't know about and it will make me a better Jug pilot, for sure. Gotta love the Jug.
Glad you found both the article and video helpful! The Jug is a great aircraft, and really good at ground attack. Certainly can take a bit more punishment than its liquid cooled counterparts!
Intercooler: You only need the intercooler when you are using the turbosupercharger. If your carb temperature gets too hot, open the intercooler doors. the intercooler cools the air coming out of the turbo feeding into the carb. Else leave them closed. You start needing this intercooler at high altitude when you are running the turbo full on. From experiece, there is only one slice of altitude where you need to bother with this. The game simulates the drag these cooling devices generate, so the less you open them, the faster you go/climb. Speed is life.
In IL-2 it is recommended to keep intercooler shutter at 50% (neutral), that way it doesnt poke out from the frame and wont cause air resistance. It wont cause any problems keeping it neutral. Also plane starts to shake at high speeds if it is completely open and not neutral. In ww2 P-47 educational film it was suggested to "keep the light blinking" which ment that your turbo is spinning. Theres some differences between these planes in those sims.
@@DieselThunderAviation Reminds me of my Cutlass Black in Star Citizen as well. Packs a punch even when flown with a single person. Well done ship interior with all sorts of odds and ends.
Thank you! I certainly do enjoy both! To be fair, we are not rebuilding or overhauling the F-4. We're getting her current on her maintenance inspection and repairing things that we find that need to be corrected in order to complete it. Once that is done, we'll be able to fly her again! And yes, Haetblur's F-4E is a day one purchase for me!
@@DieselThunderAviation Very helpful! I watched it on replay for about 4 hours yesterday while I was learning to fly the jug. So I still have a few questions if you don't mind... Firstly, I don't think you covered what the oil dilution switch is for. Can you comment on that please? Or point me toward which section of your video does cover it if I missed it? Secondly, about using the boost under 7000 feet, I am finding that I often need to add it even at 2,000-3,000ft just to keep manifold pressure at the end of the green cruise zone (~42in) with prop RPM at near redline. What am I missing? It feels to me like adding the boost at much lower altitude is quite helpful and I'm not gated by anything else.
I did not cover that in the video, sorry. What the dilution switch does, is squirts gasoline into the engine crankcase to thin out the oil and reduce the oil pressure. As the engine comes up to operating temperature, the gas evaporates and the oil remains in the crankcase. It's normally only used when it's cold outside (winter) to manage oil pressure for warmup. For using the turbo below 7K, I normally don't unless I'm in a dogfight and need the power. My process is the same as shown in the video, after takeoff, gear comes up, and once established in the climb is when I reduce to 42 inches and 2,550 RPM. I maintain that through the climb, even though the MP does drop as you go up. Throttle up to maintain until at full throttle, which happens around 3K. Once at full throttle, I'll adjust my angle of attack as needed to maintain airspeed until at 7K, then bring up the turbo to get the MP back to 42 and continue my climb. Controlling the turbo is a bit tricky at lower altitudes since you don't need much out of it down low. It's easy to overboost when the turbo spools up to speed.
The p47 in the pvp ww2 overlord server that 4ya put up is rare to find people flying over the p51 but the p47 absolutely destroys enemies in a dogfight the preformance of that huge plane is astounding how nimble and responsive it is to fly and the 8 50s just destroy an enemy with a well timed and lead burst
I have decent luck in it, until I get slow. Really hard to get the speed back before the opponent comes around and gets guns on. And I agree, having eight 50 cals makes short work of most enemies!
There's a YT vid... unfortunately, I can't remember who the pilot name or the channel. The P-47 pilot states during WWII, his entire unit was having trouble hitting any ground targets via dive-bombing. He said his Commander worked out the the best method was the Split-S directly over the target, beginning at 8k ft, and dive as near verticle as possible. He said their hit to miss ratio grew exponentially immediately after starting using the technique as Squadron Policy. There aren't that many interviews of actual P-47 pilots on YT... should be easy to find.
Interesting! Sounds risky, but effective. The handful of times I tried split S's in the Jug got me really close to over speeding the aircraft. I'm sure there's a good technique that they came up with to avoid that.
These warbirds: the amount of performance you can wring out of them depends a lot on how much abuse you can get away with the engine . Know the limits. And give it a break once in a while.
Wow it was a full time job just to keep all those gauges in check and in the green im amazed how much more engine management was needed in the P-47 Vs all the other American Warbirds that used the same R2800 Pratt n Whitney Engines? im sure after about 200hrs of flight time and some combat sorties a guy could get his shit together by then IF? you lived that long before getting shot down
Ciao Diesel! Thank you very much for the video!...I saw that the turbo lever can be linked to the throttle lever... Is it a good way to operate? Advantages? Disadvantages? Thank you again and greetings from Italy
You're welcome, glad you enjoyed it! In my opinion, no. I almost never fly with the levers linked together. By the altitudes where you need the turbo, your throttle should already be full forward. That allows you to get everything you can out of the mechanical supercharger. As a general rule, superchargers don't like being throttled. With them linked you end up bottlenecking the turbo, and choking off the supercharger at the same time, leading to some level of power loss as those components are working harder against a partially closed throttle. One advantage I can think of for the sim, is convenience for those with single axis throttles. You'd take the power loss in that configuration as mentioned, plus sacrifice useful range on longer missions, but you would gain some simplicity in operating the engine. Have to be careful not to overboost or overspeed the turbo, especially if you get bounced by enemy fighters and the instinct is to push that throttle to full!
I read somewhere that the Intercooler doors add zero or close to zero drag if at neutral, and that they were designed to be used like this. I’m not much of a virtual flyer and I’ve never flown a real plane but when I do fly the Jug in DCS, I leave these Intercooler doors in the middle all the time. The only thing I’ve had to adjust is the oil flaps, and only a tiny bit. The engine has never overheated for me. Is this wrong?
Not sure on the drag part for the doors. The manual says neutral for takeoff, open for normal flight unless cold. IF it's cold, then close the doors as needed to maintain the intake air at or above 25 degrees. Adjusting the oil doors is fairly normal. For these to overheat, you need to be at high power and low airspeed. I don't think I've gotten close to an overheat either.
@@DieselThunderAviationRight. Thanks. Maybe it’s possible half open might be considered open (as per the instructions quoted)? When I get some time I’ll try to evaluate the drag thing. Since I posted, I viewed the ‘Sherrif’s Sim Shack’ channel’s P-47 video where he does a test with the Intercooler doors and gets the least drag when half open. There are many issues with trusting this, however. He’s ‘flying’ IL2 and this may apply in that slightly less realistic sim but not IRL or in DCS. What IL2 does have is a fake autopilot where you can set the plane to fly level and concentrate on the engine parameters. I know this is a cheat, but I do wish DCS had something similar. Both for testing and for the long commutes across the Channel. You wouldn’t have to use it if you didn’t want to. 😂 If I get any test results I’m confident in I’ll post back here, but don’t hold your breath - my flying will need to be more consistent than it is now to get accurate data. Until then I’ll change what I do to match the instructions here. Thx.
I've seen it both ways in the manuals. The P-47D-25 through P-47D-35 manual has it listed at 130 MPH. The P-47N manual shows 150 MPH. When flying at 130 MPH in DCS, you are really close to the edge of stalling. I can't help but wonder is the Army Air Corps/Air Force increased the speed in the manuals to have a safer margin for the pilots to fly.
Not quite. The DC-3/C-47 used a different engine, also built by Pratt and Whitney, the 14 cylinder R-1830. Those only produced about 1,200 HP, compared to the R-2800 which made 2,400+ HP depending on the aircraft it was installed in.
It depends. If you need to get your manifold pressure up and get all the power you can out of the R-2800, then use the turbo. Best practice is to get all you can out of the supercharger (full throttle) and then supplement with the turbo as needed. Just be mindful that controlling the turbo at low altitudes is difficult and it is easy to overboost the engine if you aren’t careful. High altitude is where the turbo really helped and made the P-47 a solid fighter.
@@DieselThunderAviation it's more about the fuel than the engine in the D model. with 150 octane fuel the p-47 ran 65" of manifold pressure before it even got into the water injection range. ww2 sims always do this thing where you get the most optimistic german planes and the most pessimistic allied planes
@@ArtietheArchon Relax, just realize this is just a video game for entertainment purposes. And you should take any sources or video games with a grain of salt. There’s no such thing as 100% accurate simulation, just our interpretation.
Is the water injection supposed to actually add power? Just got the Jug and if I am at full throttle/full boost and 320-ish mph at SL and hit the water I get a bunch more MP but maybe 2-3mph more If I am lucky?? At altitude it pretty much does nothing at all. I have found the Jug to be super slow compared to the other German WWII aircraft. In a standard turning fight I can maybe hold 170-ish mph in the turn and the 109/190 can be flying the same circle at upwards of 60mp or more faster?? Impossible to actually fly against these AI which have waaaay more power.
The water itself doesn't add power but does do a few things towards the engine producing more power. The first thing it does is cool the charge air, as anytime you compress air, it gets hotter. It really helps keep the carb air temp below its limit of 50 degrees at high MP. Since it cools the charge air, it becomes denser air which is good as more air allows more fuel to be burned which makes more power. The second thing it does is help keep the cylinders cool at high power and reduces combustion temperature to prevent detonation and engine damage. As you have observed, the relationship between engine power and airspeed isn't linear. One thing to keep in mind is that the airspeed indicator measures indicated airspeed, and not true airspeed. The Jugs top speed at 30,000 feet is about 425 MPH true, but about 300 MPH on the airspeed indicator. The turbo really helped the Jug be competitive against other fighters in the first half of the war, as it could hold its engine power to a much higher altitude, where the supercharger on other fighters would be above their critical altitude. The higher engine power allows you to hold turns better with the additional thrust. As this work out in DCS, the P-47 gets outmatched with the Bf-109 K4 and the Fw-190 D9 as those two are late war designs. The Fw-190 A8 is a much better match against the Jug. And I am eagerly waiting for DCS to improve the AI for the warbirds! Hope this helps!
@@DieselThunderAviation Thanks for the info - am looking forward to the La-7! Might just stick to A-G and bombers till then. Also yes some decent AI would be nice too.
so if you're not supposed to use turbo down low, then how are you supposed to get water injection to work down low? Also when should you use the throttle/turbo interlock?
At low altitudes, you can get the engine pretty close to 52” MP, the max allowed running dry. Turning on the water system at that point will increase your manifold pressure above what your engine is able to make without the water. If you really needed too, you can bring in the turbo at low altitudes though it is harder to control. The turbo can easily spin up too fast and overboost the engine, and is very touchy in that aspect. The flight manual specified 7,000 feet as minimum for the turbo usage, and 12,000 feet as the recommended altitude. The manual leaves some room for pilot discretion. The turbo altitude recommendations and limits above applied in almost all flight conditions. However if you need to get all the power out of the engine and it’ll help get out of a bad situation or avoid getting shot down, then use it! For linking the levers, I typically only do that in extended dives. I keep them separate in all other conditions as once the throttle is full forward, I only have to adjust the boost lever to maintain MP without bottlenecking the supercharger or turbo.
Fantastic! I was dragging my feet on learning the P-47, but now I'm flying and fighting, and taxi/landing? WIP! Very helpful, Thank you!
Fantastic tutorial! I learned more about radial engines than years of watching the History Channel. More and more respect for the people that won the great war. 👍
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! I plan on doing more of these as I really enjoy the warbirds in DCS.
Such a good video mate, I was about to ask couple of questions but then 10 seconds later you straight up answer everything xD
Glad you found it helpful!
@@DieselThunderAviation you basically made me go from hating the plane thinking it's slow being frustrated to a it point where I realize it can haul ass and work at the same time 😅
Great video. Very informative. Many thanks!
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
Best Video I have ever seen on engine management. Please never stop making these. Bravo
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! And I don't plan on stopping with this series. AS long as they keep developing warbirds for DCS I'll keep them coming! The next one that I'm working on is for the Spitfire.
I realize it's been a while since you posted this but I just bought the P-47 and wanted to know more about the engine management. Thanks for the video it's very informative, as well as the article on Radial engines. I have the I-16, so to answer your question I would say the issue with windmilling and bearing damage is not modeled.
I started out at 2000m, pulled the throttle all the way back. The RPM drops from 2250 to 1600~. I push over into a dive and the rpm comes back up to 2250-2300. At the bottom of the dive I push the throttle back up and climb back to 2000m. I repeated that 5 times and at the end brought the engine back to cruise power, 80 Hg, 1800rpm and let it run for a few minutes. No change in oil temps or pressure, steady rpm.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed them!
Thanks for the info on the I-16, I picked that one up a while back but never tested the bearing damage in that. From what I understand, Eagle Dynamics adjusted the bearing damage in the P-47 so it's not as bad as before. You'll still damage them, just takes longer to affect the engine. The effect still scales with severity, but you won't kill the engine with light windmilling.
The Windmilling/Bearing Damage is crushing me on my RTBs, every dang time. It seems to be the one major thorn in my side. Missed the note about the forum post, trying to make sense of that now.
Super video DT an "excellent how to do it" many thanks!!
My pleasure, glad you found it helpful! I plan on doing more of these warbird engine videos in the near future..
Excellent breakdown, thank you. Although it's not the reason why, the 'Jug' could also stand for all the juggling the pilot has to manage with the various engine settings ! I'm reading a book on a P-47 Squadron in Europe, and watching this increases my admiration more of those who flew them in combat.
I couldn’t imagine sitting in one for hours heading into combat, managing a complex aircraft, and wondering if I’d make it back. Huge ampunt of respect for the aircrew that did it for real!
The 109 is completely different, there is no engine management to speak of. Lots of time to do other things.
Great video! The Thunderbolt pilots in the 56th would train by flying from one end of England to the other, adjusting the engine controls to get the best airspeed possible.
Thank you! Sounds like a good way to learn, and a get the best performance out of the airplane too!
Thanks for this, been runninng hot and out of Fuel on the first actual Wolfpack Mission, was frustrating, gonna give it another go after work today, hopefully make my RTB finally. 😂
My pleasure, glad it was helpful! If speed isn’t a concern for your mission, you can always take advantage of lean cruise and really save some fuel. I have a video specifically for fuel use here: czcams.com/video/SNKKE2OszqE/video.htmlsi=QsKwcLNOywg5Cn7o
@@DieselThunderAviation Sweet, I think I checked that one out, after I ran out of Fuel just after the call for RTB on Mission 1.
I thought I was good this morning when I had more than Half of main tank on my way Back to base...tried to ease up on the engine by backing off the Booster...and about 5 seconds later, looks like I spun the Main Bearing.
Not sure where I went wrong, my temps looked great up until then.
Ah well...can't learn if you don't fail I guess. 😂
Thinking about why the oil and intercooler switches are reversed from the readout, I wonder if it’s because your arm would be in the way of the indicator when you’re holding the switch. Look under your arm when using the intercooler switch, and above your arm for the oil switch.
Great info. I've read your article on the main bearings and it is a very good piece of information. These are very complex machines, more than people would usually think of them and require lot of training and adjustment to it. This video has brought much information I didn't know about and it will make me a better Jug pilot, for sure. Gotta love the Jug.
Glad you found both the article and video helpful! The Jug is a great aircraft, and really good at ground attack. Certainly can take a bit more punishment than its liquid cooled counterparts!
Why is it call Jug, just curious
Intercooler: You only need the intercooler when you are using the turbosupercharger. If your carb temperature gets too hot, open the intercooler doors. the intercooler cools the air coming out of the turbo feeding into the carb. Else leave them closed. You start needing this intercooler at high altitude when you are running the turbo full on. From experiece, there is only one slice of altitude where you need to bother with this. The game simulates the drag these cooling devices generate, so the less you open them, the faster you go/climb. Speed is life.
In IL-2 it is recommended to keep intercooler shutter at 50% (neutral), that way it doesnt poke out from the frame and wont cause air resistance. It wont cause any problems keeping it neutral. Also plane starts to shake at high speeds if it is completely open and not neutral.
In ww2 P-47 educational film it was suggested to "keep the light blinking" which ment that your turbo is spinning.
Theres some differences between these planes in those sims.
Very comprehensive and well explained. 👍👍
Thank you! Glad you learned from and enjoyed it!
Fantastic video. I'm going to build a checklist off of this, and hopefully it will reduce the stupid things I do in the air! ;)
Awesome, glad you found it helpful!
Excellent video. Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
I have too watch it through again. Been ceasing my motor. Think it happens when I set prop manually and close cowls all the way.
Gorgeous game and vehicles!
Thank you! It's very enjoyable, absolutely love the level of detail they put into this!
@@DieselThunderAviation Reminds me of my Cutlass Black in Star Citizen as well. Packs a punch even when flown with a single person. Well done ship interior with all sorts of odds and ends.
No wonder post war U.S. pilots testing FW-190 were impressed. Great video. If DCS ever adds P-38 - your video will be twice as long :)
I have the Fw-190 A8 and the komandogerat system really simplifies running that engine! And I would really like to see the P-38 in DCS one day!
@@DieselThunderAviation
I would like very very much to see a TempestV.... A totally different engine and performances ;-)
i love that you are rebuilding an f-4 and play dcs. great content! I really hope you get the f-4 module when it releases
Thank you! I certainly do enjoy both! To be fair, we are not rebuilding or overhauling the F-4. We're getting her current on her maintenance inspection and repairing things that we find that need to be corrected in order to complete it. Once that is done, we'll be able to fly her again!
And yes, Haetblur's F-4E is a day one purchase for me!
@@DieselThunderAviation Who is the pilot for he f4?
I've only met one of our pilots, he's a retired Air Force Lt. Colonel with the callsign "Bluto". He flew both the F-4 and F-16 during his career.
Great informative video. It works for me. Thank you
Glad you found it helpful! She is a challenging aircraft to fly, and very enjoyable!
Interesting and informative.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Brilliant! Thank you!
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Great tutorial. Thank You!
Thank you, glad you found it helpful!
@@DieselThunderAviation Very helpful! I watched it on replay for about 4 hours yesterday while I was learning to fly the jug. So I still have a few questions if you don't mind... Firstly, I don't think you covered what the oil dilution switch is for. Can you comment on that please? Or point me toward which section of your video does cover it if I missed it? Secondly, about using the boost under 7000 feet, I am finding that I often need to add it even at 2,000-3,000ft just to keep manifold pressure at the end of the green cruise zone (~42in) with prop RPM at near redline. What am I missing? It feels to me like adding the boost at much lower altitude is quite helpful and I'm not gated by anything else.
I did not cover that in the video, sorry. What the dilution switch does, is squirts gasoline into the engine crankcase to thin out the oil and reduce the oil pressure. As the engine comes up to operating temperature, the gas evaporates and the oil remains in the crankcase. It's normally only used when it's cold outside (winter) to manage oil pressure for warmup.
For using the turbo below 7K, I normally don't unless I'm in a dogfight and need the power. My process is the same as shown in the video, after takeoff, gear comes up, and once established in the climb is when I reduce to 42 inches and 2,550 RPM. I maintain that through the climb, even though the MP does drop as you go up. Throttle up to maintain until at full throttle, which happens around 3K. Once at full throttle, I'll adjust my angle of attack as needed to maintain airspeed until at 7K, then bring up the turbo to get the MP back to 42 and continue my climb.
Controlling the turbo is a bit tricky at lower altitudes since you don't need much out of it down low. It's easy to overboost when the turbo spools up to speed.
you have compressibility flaps you can deploy in a dive as well to help from over speeding
She sure does, though not something I’ve used very often.
The p47 in the pvp ww2 overlord server that 4ya put up is rare to find people flying over the p51 but the p47 absolutely destroys enemies in a dogfight the preformance of that huge plane is astounding how nimble and responsive it is to fly and the 8 50s just destroy an enemy with a well timed and lead burst
I have decent luck in it, until I get slow. Really hard to get the speed back before the opponent comes around and gets guns on. And I agree, having eight 50 cals makes short work of most enemies!
Amazing help this! thx a lot
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
Wunderbar👏
There's a YT vid... unfortunately, I can't remember who the pilot name or the channel. The P-47 pilot states during WWII, his entire unit was having trouble hitting any ground targets via dive-bombing. He said his Commander worked out the the best method was the Split-S directly over the target, beginning at 8k ft, and dive as near verticle as possible. He said their hit to miss ratio grew exponentially immediately after starting using the technique as Squadron Policy. There aren't that many interviews of actual P-47 pilots on YT... should be easy to find.
Interesting! Sounds risky, but effective. The handful of times I tried split S's in the Jug got me really close to over speeding the aircraft. I'm sure there's a good technique that they came up with to avoid that.
These warbirds: the amount of performance you can wring out of them depends a lot on how much abuse you can get away with the engine . Know the limits. And give it a break once in a while.
Solid advice there! Respect the limits and learn how hard you can push it.
Wow it was a full time job just to keep all those gauges in check and in the green im amazed how much more engine management was needed in the P-47 Vs all the other American Warbirds that used the same R2800 Pratt n Whitney Engines? im sure after about 200hrs of flight time and some combat sorties a guy could get his shit together by then IF? you lived that long before getting shot down
Ciao Diesel! Thank you very much for the video!...I saw that the turbo lever can be linked to the throttle lever... Is it a good way to operate? Advantages? Disadvantages? Thank you again and greetings from Italy
You're welcome, glad you enjoyed it!
In my opinion, no. I almost never fly with the levers linked together. By the altitudes where you need the turbo, your throttle should already be full forward. That allows you to get everything you can out of the mechanical supercharger. As a general rule, superchargers don't like being throttled. With them linked you end up bottlenecking the turbo, and choking off the supercharger at the same time, leading to some level of power loss as those components are working harder against a partially closed throttle.
One advantage I can think of for the sim, is convenience for those with single axis throttles. You'd take the power loss in that configuration as mentioned, plus sacrifice useful range on longer missions, but you would gain some simplicity in operating the engine. Have to be careful not to overboost or overspeed the turbo, especially if you get bounced by enemy fighters and the instinct is to push that throttle to full!
I read somewhere that the Intercooler doors add zero or close to zero drag if at neutral, and that they were designed to be used like this. I’m not much of a virtual flyer and I’ve never flown a real plane but when I do fly the Jug in DCS, I leave these Intercooler doors in the middle all the time. The only thing I’ve had to adjust is the oil flaps, and only a tiny bit. The engine has never overheated for me. Is this wrong?
Not sure on the drag part for the doors. The manual says neutral for takeoff, open for normal flight unless cold. IF it's cold, then close the doors as needed to maintain the intake air at or above 25 degrees.
Adjusting the oil doors is fairly normal. For these to overheat, you need to be at high power and low airspeed. I don't think I've gotten close to an overheat either.
@@DieselThunderAviationRight. Thanks. Maybe it’s possible half open might be considered open (as per the instructions quoted)? When I get some time I’ll try to evaluate the drag thing. Since I posted, I viewed the ‘Sherrif’s Sim Shack’ channel’s P-47 video where he does a test with the Intercooler doors and gets the least drag when half open. There are many issues with trusting this, however. He’s ‘flying’ IL2 and this may apply in that slightly less realistic sim but not IRL or in DCS. What IL2 does have is a fake autopilot where you can set the plane to fly level and concentrate on the engine parameters. I know this is a cheat, but I do wish DCS had something similar. Both for testing and for the long commutes across the Channel. You wouldn’t have to use it if you didn’t want to. 😂
If I get any test results I’m confident in I’ll post back here, but don’t hold your breath - my flying will need to be more consistent than it is now to get accurate data. Until then I’ll change what I do to match the instructions here. Thx.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the manual(the real one) says 150 turning final and not below!
I've seen it both ways in the manuals. The P-47D-25 through P-47D-35 manual has it listed at 130 MPH. The P-47N manual shows 150 MPH. When flying at 130 MPH in DCS, you are really close to the edge of stalling. I can't help but wonder is the Army Air Corps/Air Force increased the speed in the manuals to have a safer margin for the pilots to fly.
Does this translate over to il2?
I’m not sure how IL2 models the engines in thier sim. The last time I flew IL2 was around 2004. If it is similar, then it should work about the same.
Is this the same engine that was in the DC-3?
Not quite. The DC-3/C-47 used a different engine, also built by Pratt and Whitney, the 14 cylinder R-1830. Those only produced about 1,200 HP, compared to the R-2800 which made 2,400+ HP depending on the aircraft it was installed in.
@@DieselThunderAviation thanks
Should the turbo be off if I'm in a dogfight on the deck aswell? Kinda confused about that
It depends. If you need to get your manifold pressure up and get all the power you can out of the R-2800, then use the turbo. Best practice is to get all you can out of the supercharger (full throttle) and then supplement with the turbo as needed. Just be mindful that controlling the turbo at low altitudes is difficult and it is easy to overboost the engine if you aren’t careful. High altitude is where the turbo really helped and made the P-47 a solid fighter.
@@DieselThunderAviation Thanks!
My pleasure!
a shame the dcs p-47 only runs 64" of mercury. missing nearly 400hp in this model
I don't think any D model Jug ever got the uprated engine.
@@DieselThunderAviation it's more about the fuel than the engine in the D model. with 150 octane fuel the p-47 ran 65" of manifold pressure before it even got into the water injection range. ww2 sims always do this thing where you get the most optimistic german planes and the most pessimistic allied planes
@@ArtietheArchon
Relax, just realize this is just a video game for entertainment purposes.
And you should take any sources or video games with a grain of salt.
There’s no such thing as 100% accurate simulation, just our interpretation.
You are correct, same with the LF Mk9. In reality 100+ Mk9 were outfit with the British Ferranti Mk2 Gyro gunsight. But no such option exists in DCS.
Is the water injection supposed to actually add power? Just got the Jug and if I am at full throttle/full boost and 320-ish mph at SL and hit the water I get a bunch more MP but maybe 2-3mph more If I am lucky?? At altitude it pretty much does nothing at all.
I have found the Jug to be super slow compared to the other German WWII aircraft. In a standard turning fight I can maybe hold 170-ish mph in the turn and the 109/190 can be flying the same circle at upwards of 60mp or more faster?? Impossible to actually fly against these AI which have waaaay more power.
The water itself doesn't add power but does do a few things towards the engine producing more power. The first thing it does is cool the charge air, as anytime you compress air, it gets hotter. It really helps keep the carb air temp below its limit of 50 degrees at high MP. Since it cools the charge air, it becomes denser air which is good as more air allows more fuel to be burned which makes more power. The second thing it does is help keep the cylinders cool at high power and reduces combustion temperature to prevent detonation and engine damage.
As you have observed, the relationship between engine power and airspeed isn't linear. One thing to keep in mind is that the airspeed indicator measures indicated airspeed, and not true airspeed. The Jugs top speed at 30,000 feet is about 425 MPH true, but about 300 MPH on the airspeed indicator.
The turbo really helped the Jug be competitive against other fighters in the first half of the war, as it could hold its engine power to a much higher altitude, where the supercharger on other fighters would be above their critical altitude. The higher engine power allows you to hold turns better with the additional thrust. As this work out in DCS, the P-47 gets outmatched with the Bf-109 K4 and the Fw-190 D9 as those two are late war designs. The Fw-190 A8 is a much better match against the Jug. And I am eagerly waiting for DCS to improve the AI for the warbirds!
Hope this helps!
@@DieselThunderAviation Thanks for the info - am looking forward to the La-7! Might just stick to A-G and bombers till then. Also yes some decent AI would be nice too.
impressive amount of information. thanks. this is exactly what I needed and it is delivered without fluff 🙏
so if you're not supposed to use turbo down low, then how are you supposed to get water injection to work down low? Also when should you use the throttle/turbo interlock?
At low altitudes, you can get the engine pretty close to 52” MP, the max allowed running dry. Turning on the water system at that point will increase your manifold pressure above what your engine is able to make without the water. If you really needed too, you can bring in the turbo at low altitudes though it is harder to control. The turbo can easily spin up too fast and overboost the engine, and is very touchy in that aspect. The flight manual specified 7,000 feet as minimum for the turbo usage, and 12,000 feet as the recommended altitude.
The manual leaves some room for pilot discretion. The turbo altitude recommendations and limits above applied in almost all flight conditions. However if you need to get all the power out of the engine and it’ll help get out of a bad situation or avoid getting shot down, then use it!
For linking the levers, I typically only do that in extended dives. I keep them separate in all other conditions as once the throttle is full forward, I only have to adjust the boost lever to maintain MP without bottlenecking the supercharger or turbo.
@@DieselThunderAviation thanks for the reply sir!
My pleasure!