Thank You Chad & the family for all the hard work sharing knowledge & to you Caleb for sharing info on an overlooked/misunderstood part. ( I only know what I know about it from watching Chad, lol)
Caleb, I'm a SOTAR Alumni and I also appreciate the kind words. I can honestly say that I'm proud of having taken the Armorers course and I can't deny that watching your Smyth Busters videos helped to motivate me to take the course. Thank you for what you do is all I'm saying.
I've been filing a "nick" in mine and indexing my cam pins since I learned about it from Chad. I also use a light grease on the cam pin and track when I clean it. It keeps wear down substantially. I have yet to see any of the "wtf?!?!" wear on my AR's that some others do. I think this is mainly because powder/general fouling is a light abrasive and take the 2 minutes to wipe off the worst of it. All the haters whine about how the AR sh**s where it eats.. but thats not a big deal when you wash it's a**. 😂
@@NevadaMirage I carry my AR every day on the farm in all weather and have my own range with steel targets and paper hangers. Also a reloader. I don't shoot thousands of rounds a month, but I do train AND target shoot. Taking care of an AR is NOT hard. Oil anything that can rust. Pull the carrier and wipe it down. Run it wet and give it hell.
For those that want to save money and use their existing cam pins, use a spring loaded center punch on top of the cam pin offset to one side to create a small indentation to achieve the same goal. Using this has not damaged the finish on my cam pins, but be aware that it potentially could if you go too hard
You better check your feelings at the door if you start watching SOTAR videos! OMG… I can’t believe how much I didn’t know I needed to know!! Chad is a boss.. the knowledge is deep! 🇺🇸
SOTAR is great, very informative. We should support his efforts. As for this part, couldn't we just cut a little nick or dimple on our current cam pins so that we will always know the direction of operation in reassembly?
What an unbelievable experience and privilege it was to sit through Chad’s class at SOTAR and learn from a man that has as much knowledge as he does about the AR 15!!
I did not know anything about this, thank you. I have a new bcg that has only been hand cycled so I will note which is the front side. I've only taken it apart once for the initial packing grease cleaning.
Been shooting the AR platform for 26 years. Never cared about the direction of the cam pin. Still have BCGs that old working without a problem. I mean really. These things will outlast my lifetime regardless of what direction they face.
SOTAR is excellent at what they do. The only other cam pin I've seen that addresses this is the Lietner-Wise. (Has an arrow instead of the indexing dot) . Thanks for the great info and videos. Keep them coming.
Seen this done by Chad from "SOTAR" awhile back, actually took his advice and made a small mark on my Cam Pin (with a carbide bit) lol Still not as nice as the actual one, but helps to keep it oriented same way to reduce uneven wear!
Very interesting. I have been doing this for my pin on my AR's just out of being annal . I found, atleast with my limited amount of AR's. that 2 out of the 3 I have the tapering of the hole is different from one side to the other. Always figured put it back together the way it was assembled. Hmmmm proving once again even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Thanks for the tip.
I owe a lot to SOTAR teaching me how to build and maintain my ARs….they are a blessing and a national treasure. That being said, my POF roller pin in a Rubber City titanium BCG is simply the smoothest solution on the market today.
Thanks Caleb…Ive been indexing my cam pins since my mil service rifle 1994. Before that I would just use the wear mark as an indicator of proper install. You should have a chat about gas tube/key alignment as well. I run into folks with poor gassing due to premature wear of either the gas key and/or gas tube where they join.
I brought this up to dudes a year ago and explained why it was a good thing and got hit with "ok but in the military we didn't have those". I get this response so often for stuff in the AR realm and it's mind numbing trying to get guys to realize there's better things than what the military gave them
Great explanation….and that’s why I went with lantac…FCD does have a scp finished in np3 which was very, very tempting (might get one anyway as I have several bcg’s) but lantac seems to have added a few more modifications. Like the domed top, zero sharp edges, coating finish comparable to np3….and with that round, domed top it has a flat side, which you can use to index.
I like the Geissele cam pin. It's made of a special surgical stainless steel that is extremely hard to machine but it damn near indestructible. Its directional. It's the one in their reliability enhanced BCG.
I'm a big fan of Chads channel. If there is anything you want to know about an ar-15 there is a video for it. I thought i knew something about firearms but i was mistaken, there is a lot more. His latest video blew my mind. Even manufacturers can make major mistakes so it's a good idea to check every part that is on your rifles before you shoot it. I would bet that that part will not fail.
I have the Forward Controls castle nut that came with my A5 buffer system and it seems like a perfectly fine piece. I will not be buying this cam.pin, but what I will be doing today is getting my punch and putting the dimple on my existing pin. It doesn't show any real wear yet so it will be fine. Chad actually recommends that you put the mark on your pin. If mine was worn then I would probably get this one.
Jeeze, when ive seen mention of this in the past i took it the opposite way. I figured the indexing mark was so i would rotate it after each cleaning for even wear on both sides. 😂😅😂
I did not know that. But I always try to put it back in the way it comes out because of the wear pattern. I build engines so I brought that concept over to guns. But a mark on the cam would be a good idea so I don’t have to look at the water mark putting it in.
Ive been building AR15s for 20 years and I'm asking "why do I need this"?. Yes the cam pin wears on one side. Anyone with experience always inserts that pin with the wear side the same.
i have been posting on here and SOTAR page for him to colaberate for months now, saying his standards would make a perfect rifle. I hope there is more and more parts from SOTAR to come !!!!!!
Okay so you said wearing unevenly but you also made it sound like you don't want to reverse it when you clean you BCG, so, if you don't reverse it (i.e. put it in exactly the same orientation it was in before) then it will wear unevenly, correct? So is that good or bad?
Got a PFO cam pin for my AR10 , they make a huge difference with .308 and save your receiver much wear and tear 😅as the pin is rounded instead of squared.
I litterally scrolled to find someone that uses a POF roller cam pin! In my head I was asking what about POF. Glad to see someone else is using one lol
May be a stupid question, but wouldn't alternating the installation direction cause more even wear instead of wearing in the same places forever? In my head this sounds like not rotating your tires.
Your bolt and cam pin are wearing together. By rotating sides after it's worn on one side you're introducing gaps between the bolt and cam pin. The cam pin hole on the bolt is one of the common breaking points because of stretching and wear
SOTAR blocks comments and users for asking why he works with cops who laughed after killing a guy who resisted a red-flag seizure. Save your money for people who OPPOSE the Red Coats.
I was told by a manufacturer/designer that the top of the cam pin (the T) actually serves no other function than to index the cam pin correctly. Although it isn't "always" in the same position, example my PA10's cam pin the T top run inline with the firing pin,and no it isn't defective... ii checked, thats how i got the info.
You can tell its function by the geometry. The side-to-side width fits into the charge handle track tightly to keep the bolt from rotating when cycling. The front-to-back dimension is to clear the gas key when you rotate it and take it out.
If I was building a bcg from parts and or replacing a bad (cracked/broken) cam pin this would be my choice. Otherwise, sorry but “if it ain’t broke…”. That said Chad can’t have enough good things said about him on the subject of ARs and I’ve bought products from the company involved and will again as needed.
I think it's supposed to make your bolt last longer, not just the cam pin. The idea is less slack means less slamming force and less stretching around the cam pin hole. So if you wait until something breaks it will cost more to fix than a preventative fix.
I wish all cam pins came with indexing marks. All my BCG's have been shot/disassembled/reassembled many times with obvious wear on the cam pins. Probably not a bad idea to just buy enough of these to switch them all out.
If you're concerned about internal wear in a high round AR or carry one for a living, every 10-20k rounds you should replace the entire BCG. While I appreciate innovation, this is not needed.
While interesting the the amount of rounds and abuse it would take for damage or ware of the cam pin to such a degree as to cause failure would be past what I shoot recreationally and honestly in while in service as a infantryman and even a armorer at one point this issue never played any substantial roll in maintenance. For someone who shoots constantly for a living or competition I could see this product being worth it but someone with that skill set could probably just make their own.
It may just dimple, but I am sure he now has a patent on it and nobody can sell one with a dimple or maybe a mark on top. So now how many manufacturers/people are going to buy these? I bet a lot. Smart move SOTAR.
I picked up the np3 coated cam pin.... Within 100 rounds the coating was opening up and flaking off to the point where I could almost get my finger nail under it.... Sent pictures to forward control designs and the guy hit me back saying "huh.... Never seen that before, eh oh well you should be fine.... Contact again if you run into issues". Kind of a strange response but anyway, I'm more worried about the unprotected wear points of the cam pin damaging the channel that it sits in because it's already started making travel marks on my SOLGW bcg that I've never seen before in owning dozens of AR's over a dozen years...
Thank you for the kind words Caleb.
No, thank you Chad for sharing your vast information..
Thank You Chad & the family for all the hard work sharing knowledge & to you Caleb for sharing info on an overlooked/misunderstood part. ( I only know what I know about it from watching Chad, lol)
@@hairydogstail His “information” is usually just stuff he made up.
Thank you for all your input over the years! -Oldie from Armorers Group
I watched all your videos and some multiple times I love you channel and you keeping my cam pin tight
Aero precision was so impressed by SOTAR that they put the index mark on their bolt cam pin. Two thumbs up for SOTAR and of course Brownells.
Caleb is bricked up talking about Chad, thank god that table is in the way.
If you ever watched any of their videos, you would understand and agree.
They are absolte masters
we all need butt buddies
Caleb, I'm a SOTAR Alumni and I also appreciate the kind words. I can honestly say that I'm proud of having taken the Armorers course and I can't deny that watching your Smyth Busters videos helped to motivate me to take the course. Thank you for what you do is all I'm saying.
If you know, you know. And when Caleb and Chad from SOTAR speak...you listen. Great stuff Caleb!
❤
This is gospel
I've been filing a "nick" in mine and indexing my cam pins since I learned about it from Chad.
I also use a light grease on the cam pin and track when I clean it. It keeps wear down substantially.
I have yet to see any of the "wtf?!?!" wear on my AR's that some others do. I think this is mainly because powder/general fouling is a light abrasive and take the 2 minutes to wipe off the worst of it. All the haters whine about how the AR sh**s where it eats.. but thats not a big deal when you wash it's a**. 😂
Chad literally made up a nonexistent problem in order to act like he discovered a solution.
Those are the lazy ones who don't clean their weapons or address their own hygiene for that matter.
When you only use your rifle once every few years it's not really a problem
@@NevadaMirage Or even with weekly usage.
@@NevadaMirage I carry my AR every day on the farm in all weather and have my own range with steel targets and paper hangers. Also a reloader.
I don't shoot thousands of rounds a month, but I do train AND target shoot.
Taking care of an AR is NOT hard. Oil anything that can rust. Pull the carrier and wipe it down. Run it wet and give it hell.
For those that want to save money and use their existing cam pins, use a spring loaded center punch on top of the cam pin offset to one side to create a small indentation to achieve the same goal. Using this has not damaged the finish on my cam pins, but be aware that it potentially could if you go too hard
Yep ... been doing my own for years😉👊🇺🇸
Maybe Brownells could start selling a Gucci center punch too.
Gonna start doing this... never gave much thought to it!
Was going to come here to suggest this. Simple solution.
@@NevadaMirage, I would bet they already do. Probably Starrett.
You better check your feelings at the door if you start watching SOTAR videos! OMG… I can’t believe how much I didn’t know I needed to know!! Chad is a boss.. the knowledge is deep! 🇺🇸
SOTAR is great, very informative. We should support his efforts. As for this part, couldn't we just cut a little nick or dimple on our current cam pins so that we will always know the direction of operation in reassembly?
Or, if there's visible wear, you can just put it back in the same way based on that. If there's no visible wear, this is a non-issue.
You can use a diamond burr or a file and mark your own.
I have learned something new today
@@sportdriver Me two
Me three
What an unbelievable experience and privilege it was to sit through Chad’s class at SOTAR and learn from a man that has as much knowledge as he does about the AR 15!!
So glad you're getting into the finer aspects of armory work.... Thanks Caleb (& Chad) wanna see more of this content!
This is awesome, Chads a huge source of knowledge for ARs.
❤
SOTAR is an awesome channel. I'd love to take his course(s). I would take seriously any product he wants to come out with.
Love these detailed reviews on the smaller parts of different brands - more dpms 308 builds!
Excellent collaboration Caleb, keep up the good work..
yes, Chad from SOTAR gets mad respect. Same with you, Caleb. Thank you!!
Just put a scratch on all my cam pins now I can keep them forward. And it was free. Thanks for the advice
I had no idea about this but after you explained it, it makes perfect sense
I did not know that. I'll have to take note of rebuilding my BCG more carefully. Thank you!
I did not know anything about this, thank you. I have a new bcg that has only been hand cycled so I will note which is the front side. I've only taken it apart once for the initial packing grease cleaning.
Thank you Caleb!
Been shooting the AR platform for 26 years. Never cared about the direction of the cam pin. Still have BCGs that old working without a problem. I mean really. These things will outlast my lifetime regardless of what direction they face.
Great info, never thought about it like this. Thank you !
This is the type of product that appeals to folks who will never reach a round count for it to make any difference.
With all due respect.
I was unaware of that, good to know!
Nice product. I dimple all my pins, easy enough for a person to do.
SOTAR is excellent at what they do. The only other cam pin I've seen that addresses this is the Lietner-Wise. (Has an arrow instead of the indexing dot) . Thanks for the great info and videos. Keep them coming.
Geissele cam pins are marked as well.
Armalite AR-10As have a distinctive cam pin which shows which way it should be oriented.
Seen this done by Chad from "SOTAR" awhile back, actually took his advice and made a small mark on my Cam Pin (with a carbide bit) lol Still not as nice as the actual one, but helps to keep it oriented same way to reduce uneven wear!
A $2.00 center punch will do the same. Only upgrade I see is a roller cam pin.
Very interesting. I have been doing this for my pin on my AR's just out of being annal . I found, atleast with my limited amount of AR's. that 2 out of the 3 I have the tapering of the hole is different from one side to the other. Always figured put it back together the way it was assembled. Hmmmm proving once again even a blind squirrel can find a nut. Thanks for the tip.
I owe a lot to SOTAR teaching me how to build and maintain my ARs….they are a blessing and a national treasure. That being said, my POF roller pin in a Rubber City titanium BCG is simply the smoothest solution on the market today.
I used the roller Cam pin for my AR-10 and I like it!
Titanium bcg is garbage
@@KeepTheGates I don't know about garbage I only own a titanium nitride pistol barrel but my hard chrome carrier is great
@@KeepTheGates I own three from RCA....thousands of rounds and never a problem.
Rubber City bolt, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Thank you for the 1st class information sir
I did not know. I had no clue. Thanks
Thanks Caleb…Ive been indexing my cam pins since my mil service rifle 1994. Before that I would just use the wear mark as an indicator of proper install.
You should have a chat about gas tube/key alignment as well. I run into folks with poor gassing due to premature wear of either the gas key and/or gas tube where they join.
I brought this up to dudes a year ago and explained why it was a good thing and got hit with "ok but in the military we didn't have those". I get this response so often for stuff in the AR realm and it's mind numbing trying to get guys to realize there's better things than what the military gave them
sounds like something gunblue 490 would say
Love SOTAR, but FCD is the paypig version of Strike for guys with better aesthetic sensibilities. Just witness mark your own pin, you silly boys
Great explanation….and that’s why I went with lantac…FCD does have a scp finished in np3 which was very, very tempting (might get one anyway as I have several bcg’s) but lantac seems to have added a few more modifications. Like the domed top, zero sharp edges, coating finish comparable to np3….and with that round, domed top it has a flat side, which you can use to index.
I Did The Same With My Existing Cam Pin I Used a Punch To Dimple It 😊
Great info. Never thought about that.
I like putting folks on to SOTAR. I wish I could attend but I’m in Alabama
I've been dimpling my own cam pins for years 😉👊🇺🇸
I heard SCP and thought I was about to learn about some monsters. Thought I clicked on wrong video.
Running them in a few of my rifles. The finish is outstanding on the forward control cam pin.
Great content!
I’m drilling a pin hole on my cam pin
Thanks for the idea
I put an index mark on my Cam pin for this exact reason!
I like the Geissele cam pin. It's made of a special surgical stainless steel that is extremely hard to machine but it damn near indestructible. Its directional. It's the one in their reliability enhanced BCG.
I definitely plan on performing surgery with my cam pin, guess I should purchase the Gucci version
@@NevadaMirage why not have the best materials possible
@NevadaMirage
I thought the geissele bcg was expensive, until I found the SOLGW ar10 chome bcg. That sucker is $500.
Thanks to Chad and SOTAR for keeping us well regulated.
I'm a big fan of Chads channel. If there is anything you want to know about an ar-15 there is a video for it. I thought i knew something about firearms but i was mistaken, there is a lot more. His latest video blew my mind. Even manufacturers can make major mistakes so it's a good idea to check every part that is on your rifles before you shoot it. I would bet that that part will not fail.
I have the Forward Controls castle nut that came with my A5 buffer system and it seems like a perfectly fine piece. I will not be buying this cam.pin, but what I will be doing today is getting my punch and putting the dimple on my existing pin. It doesn't show any real wear yet so it will be fine.
Chad actually recommends that you put the mark on your pin. If mine was worn then I would probably get this one.
Sure did, thank you very much!
Used a center punch and marked all of mine after watching this.
Jeeze, when ive seen mention of this in the past i took it the opposite way. I figured the indexing mark was so i would rotate it after each cleaning for even wear on both sides.
😂😅😂
Thank you 😊
I did not know that. But I always try to put it back in the way it comes out because of the wear pattern. I build engines so I brought that concept over to guns. But a mark on the cam would be a good idea so I don’t have to look at the water mark putting it in.
Just mark the old one.
I guess I'm a novice, I've not seen an issue ever with a cam pin so I don't see the need idk🤷♂️
There is a chromed cam pin with an arrow pointing in one direction made by Leitner-Wise LLC, not to be confused with LWRC
Ive been building AR15s for 20 years and I'm asking "why do I need this"?. Yes the cam pin wears on one side. Anyone with experience always inserts that pin with the wear side the same.
Years ago he said index, stupid simple, I scratch all, because the Chad said so.
Thank You
How many rounds does it take for the uneven wear to become an issue?
i have been posting on here and SOTAR page for him to colaberate for months now, saying his standards would make a perfect rifle. I hope there is more and more parts from SOTAR to come !!!!!!
❤
I watched his video on the cam pin. I mark my cam pin so I can put it back in the same way.
Caleb, talk about this cam pin and make it sound wonderful so he can sell this tiny expensive product that doesn't need to be. Uhhh ok.
You don't have to buy it
Okay so you said wearing unevenly but you also made it sound like you don't want to reverse it when you clean you BCG, so, if you don't reverse it (i.e. put it in exactly the same orientation it was in before) then it will wear unevenly, correct? So is that good or bad?
But does it come with all the gauges to check dimensions? And the gauges to check those gauges?? Where's the DIY goop SOTAR lathers his rifle with?
Got a PFO cam pin for my AR10 , they make a huge difference with .308 and save your receiver much wear and tear 😅as the pin is rounded instead of squared.
I litterally scrolled to find someone that uses a POF roller cam pin! In my head I was asking what about POF. Glad to see someone else is using one lol
@silver4drrx828 great minds think alike 😉
I already dimpled all my cam pins since every rifle was purchased
SOTAR for the win 👍
❤
The rolling cam pin still sounds like the best idea to me. Why not have a smoother running BCG and do less damage to your upper receiver?
I have one and love it
May be a stupid question, but wouldn't alternating the installation direction cause more even wear instead of wearing in the same places forever? In my head this sounds like not rotating your tires.
That is exactly what I have been thinking and why I’m watching these videos.
Your bolt and cam pin are wearing together. By rotating sides after it's worn on one side you're introducing gaps between the bolt and cam pin. The cam pin hole on the bolt is one of the common breaking points because of stretching and wear
Which side of the cam pin wears faster?
Sounds interesting.
Some company made a version of a cam pin that has a roller in stead of metal on metal.
Buying one now
SOTAR blocks comments and users for asking why he works with cops who laughed after killing a guy who resisted a red-flag seizure. Save your money for people who OPPOSE the Red Coats.
I was told by a manufacturer/designer that the top of the cam pin (the T) actually serves no other function than to index the cam pin correctly. Although it isn't "always" in the same position, example my PA10's cam pin the T top run inline with the firing pin,and no it isn't defective... ii checked, thats how i got the info.
You can tell its function by the geometry. The side-to-side width fits into the charge handle track tightly to keep the bolt from rotating when cycling. The front-to-back dimension is to clear the gas key when you rotate it and take it out.
If I was building a bcg from parts and or replacing a bad (cracked/broken) cam pin this would be my choice. Otherwise, sorry but “if it ain’t broke…”. That said Chad can’t have enough good things said about him on the subject of ARs and I’ve bought products from the company involved and will again as needed.
I think it's supposed to make your bolt last longer, not just the cam pin. The idea is less slack means less slamming force and less stretching around the cam pin hole. So if you wait until something breaks it will cost more to fix than a preventative fix.
Crazy question, but couldn’t you just make your own indentation using a tool and I have to buy a new one?
Why not add a indexing mark on your existing bolt cam pin ????
Sight Mark your pins. Got it. 👍
I learned something.
I have a Brownells BCG, should I put this on there?
I wish all cam pins came with indexing marks. All my BCG's have been shot/disassembled/reassembled many times with obvious wear on the cam pins. Probably not a bad idea to just buy enough of these to switch them all out.
Thats what I was thinking. They are wear parts and I have plenty of spares .
Now the question is, how do you know if the cam pin is too worn or which side should you wear out better
I suggest replacing the Cam Pin if the wear has created a significant groove that won't let your fingernail pass over it (grabs)
@@SchooloftheAmericanRiflethanks for the reply to OP, that's good info for us newbies.
SOTAR - where money meets mouth
If you're concerned about internal wear in a high round AR or carry one for a living, every 10-20k rounds you should replace the entire BCG.
While I appreciate innovation, this is not needed.
Its always about the little things.
Cool. So all I need to do is just dimple my current cam pins instead of buying one of these.
While interesting the the amount of rounds and abuse it would take for damage or ware of the cam pin to such a degree as to cause failure would be past what I shoot recreationally and honestly in while in service as a infantryman and even a armorer at one point this issue never played any substantial roll in maintenance. For someone who shoots constantly for a living or competition I could see this product being worth it but someone with that skill set could probably just make their own.
It may just dimple, but I am sure he now has a patent on it and nobody can sell one with a dimple or maybe a mark on top.
So now how many manufacturers/people are going to buy these? I bet a lot. Smart move SOTAR.
Do you know if a patent is actually being taken or just speculating? Btw you are not being forced to buy this thing
Have you seen SOTAR vid on lubing for storage? I thought it was a joke…
Dude cam pin is the new forward assist 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Instead of a bird, it has a dimple. Now pay $100
It's 13 bucks lol
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Couldn't you put witness mark on the existing pin?
yes
Yep, punch and a hammer...
No, you need to spend money on an idea😂
Or you could just buy a Colt brand cam pin and install it into your BCG whichever way and be fine.
I would suggest a diamond burr or carbine starter drill bit to mark your own cam pin.
Cam Pins are hard and can damage good staking punches.
If Chad says, smart people listen.
AR poors should feel bad that they don't have a Gucci cam pin.
index all of my parts, some as simple as a dot with a sharpe, others get a scribe or punch mark.
I picked up the np3 coated cam pin.... Within 100 rounds the coating was opening up and flaking off to the point where I could almost get my finger nail under it.... Sent pictures to forward control designs and the guy hit me back saying "huh.... Never seen that before, eh oh well you should be fine.... Contact again if you run into issues". Kind of a strange response but anyway, I'm more worried about the unprotected wear points of the cam pin damaging the channel that it sits in because it's already started making travel marks on my SOLGW bcg that I've never seen before in owning dozens of AR's over a dozen years...
It’s a solution in search of a problem.
FCD is run by a grifter.
Dude sells $55 A2 flash hiders 😂