GVM upgrades for 4WDs are rubbish. (Not what you wanted to hear, huh?) | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2021
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GVM upgrades give you administrative compliance for carrying extra weight - but you risk throwing your new car warranty under the bus. Also, the durability of the powertrain and platform might be compromised, your GCM limit remains unchanged, you might be uninsured, and the vehicle wasn't fundamentally designed to carry that much weight, endlessly, across the harshest terrain in the nation. Apart from that: Good idea...
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"The minister has his hands full." 🤣
"The competition in the jack-off industry remains stiff." 😂
Oh, John... you've done it again! 🍻👍🏆
I was a govt. approved Heavy Vehicle Certification Engineer in NZ for 15 years. (BE Mechanical plus post graduate training, testing and approval).
To increase the GVM of a heavy vehicle (GVM 3.5T or more truck or trailer) the OEM axle limits could never be increased.
The tyre loading could never go above manufacturer or road regulation limits
The only way GVM could be increased was to reverse engineer the chassis (by computer Finite Element Analysis) AND strengthen it (if GVM was less than axle/tyre limits)
OR add an axle AND reverse engineer the chassis AND strengthen it.
Just changing springs and shocks did not legally increase GVM.
I very much doubt ARB, Pedders etc ... have reverse engineered the chassis strength of the 4X4 they offer kits to.
100% I said this some time ago and was shot down by internet heroes . Good job mate! Adding the qualifications is a nice touch !
@@dgs0011 I added quals to discourage keyboard warriors 😉
I'm right with you on this. A couple of years ago, the front end of one of our 11T GVM Isuzus got badly mangled. It was sent off for repair and the bill was over $10K and when it came back, the "professional" workshop had fitted it with heavy-duty front leaf springs, because it was cheaper than replacing the OEM 3-plate parabolics. This "professional" outfit said the truck could now take more payload and some in the depot actually believed the bullshit... until me and another bloke pointed out that the truck would have to be put through a very complicated process to be re-plated. Fitting heavy-duty springs to an existing truck does one thing only - add unladen weight.
spot on 100% correct
Superior engineering have a gvm upgrade that include a weld in chassis bracing with all the suspension components, fully engineered and certified.
"TAKE ALL THAT SHIT FROM HOME TO GET AWAY FROM HOME" Best statement ever lol
If you haven't seen "George Carlin Talks About "Stuff"" well worth it.
It's what they actually do...
“…Then we live in different universes, and I probably can’t help you”. Best line ever!
Some good points here, but there should be some manufacturer responsibility here as well. Real life example;
Purchased a brand new LC200 vx 2020. Drove it straight from the dealership to a public certified weigh-bridge where it weighed in at 2820kgs (no driver) leaving 530kgs of usable payload. This was with the tow hitch, full tank of fuel and rubber floor mats, otherwise completely standard off the showroom floor.
Now throw in the average Aussie family of Dad (90kgs) Mum (60kgs) and two rug rats (40kg each) and that takes the usable payload down to 200kgs. Now the reason for purchasing the King on (and off) the road was to tow the tin shitter (caravan) to dingo piss creek which weighs a modest 2500kgs fully loaded. However, now with my correctly loaded ball weight of 10% (250kgs) means I am 50kgs overweight, even though I am some 1200kgs under the the manufactures GCM. This is no mods, no gear in the boot, nothing other than how it comes out of the factory serving the purpose it is marketed for.
So I have gone the gvm upgrade route of an additional 300kgs to offset the towball weight. What other choice do you have? This is a tow vehicle 30% of the time, and comfortable family transport the rest of the time. I am still well under gcm, even with the additional 300kg gvm, so should still be well within the manufactures tolerances in the design of the car….!
Had the same issue with the cruiser so a no brainer to do an GVM upgrade
I don't understand how he knows the main limit for GVM is frame strength from his time doing bolt inspections on a construction site, or whatever he did for the 2-5 years Cadogan actually worked as an engineer.
Isn't the point that GVM is determined by a mix of the engine, the braking system and the suspension + the frame strength? If my GU Leaf Sprung Patrol comes from factory with a sturdier chassis, if I have tyres suitable for the load and 2 capable solid axles then why can't I increase the leaf pack from 6 to 12 to suspend more weight?
Upgrade the brakes for safety and tune the motor, don't throw it around like a lunatic and what's the problem?
Heck, I'm a welder, I think its a great idea to stiffen the frame up some, but is it really necessary?
John Cadogan talks out of his bum.
I'm surprised you can legally call these modifications a GVM upgrade. I grew up the the trucking industry and I don't recall ever being able to change an 8 tonner to a 10 tonner by changing the springs. For a truck, the chassis may have been OK but there's the load per axle, tyres, drive-train etc to consider. Generally, more axles gives you more load carrying capacity but at some point, the chassis and drive-train will need to be significantly more robust to handle the additional mass. I guess you can say anything to sell anything ... never let the truth interfere with a good story.
100% correct
Billy Slater and Brad Fittler were walking down a beach, when they found a Genie Bottle. The Genie appears and grants each one wish.
Brad Fittler speaks first, saying “ I hate Queenslanders, and I never want any to get into NSW. So, build a wall, one thousand feet tall, all the way around NSW.”
Flash, wish granted.
The Genie turned to Billy, ‘and what is your wish?’
“ Fill it with Water.”
bahahahaahahaha
ARB's conduct on a corporate level has left such a sour taste that I could never do business with them. I know that GVM downgrades are possible in smaller trucks so they can be driven on a car licence. That's doable. The upgrades weird me out.
I agree I wont go near ARB either.
@@stendecstretcher5678 I waited 9weeks for my ranger canopy when they fitted it they cut my tub liner 20 millimetres short and did not even put all the clips back in when i complained they told me to go back to ford as i have defective liner went back the next day and they put one clip in and said all doneWILL NEVER GO NEAR THEM AGAINevery 4 wheel drive web site i see i tell my story,fixed it myself with some aluminium
I will never go near ARB again! I'm a Kings man from now on!!!
Yeah, much better to buy cheap imports rather than Aussie made stuff. Ethics 101. I'm not saying ARB are perfect, by the way. GVM often relates to spring and shock absorber rates, so if Toyota made a 200 series with a 1,000 kg load capacity it would ride really badly when mum takes the kids to school.
My takeaway from this is that the GVM upgrade for a ute is to buy a UNIMOG.
Dead right no point getting a boy to do a mans job
Gotta have deep pockets!!!
That's actually a sound reasoning.
@@guanghunglo3594 skimping instead of doing the job properly will always end in tears.
@@guanghunglo3594. You can pick up ex army ones at auction for $35k. As long and you can afford to live with a MR truck.
Ah yes, as I have explained to many…... The Canning Stock Route ( dingo piss creek ) is unable to read your ‘gvm upgrade certificate’ and your car will more than likely fail if you are up at the upper limits of the original GVM anyway.
Weight is a hard concept for some to comprehend….. as the enemy to painless travel.
Great video 10/10
John your advice makes sense as usual with credible credentials - I do have a slide on aluminium canopy now which I can remove and allows me to use the ute for normal domestic tasks at home - my challenge is to keep the weight ‘under control’ this being my primary criteria - for example I decided to use a 1600mm canopy on an 1800 aluminium tray - the small fridge (no drop slide) lithium battery and water storage on on the cabin side of the Hilux axle - and I use aluminium cookware instead of heavy cast iron - leaf springs are still concave - John in SA
It's extremely simple: If you need a GVM upgrade you bought the wrong vehicle.
The irony is the correct vehicle is often cheaper than a pimped ute.
@@thelonewolf666 big difference between capable, comfortable, reliably and safely.
Completely agree
Or you are taking too much shit with you.
We have a lc200 24 months old with some hefty mods and accessories and will keep for remote touring and driving - worth the mods regardless of the warranty and this discussion - respect but agree to disagree!
As for insurance - completely disclosed and covered as complianced and engineered.
I just put a Pedders GVM upgrade on my old GU Patrol it came with chassis and diff bracing that needed to be welded on, as well as shocks springs and brakes. Although I don’t plan on loading it higher than the standard GVM, I feel more comfortable with the added reinforcement and weight carrying capacity for heading to Dingo Piss Crk with the family.
Totally agree with GVMs on new vehicles and you would want to have money to burn if you want to risk voiding your warranty.
Love the channel John!
Hi Luke just asking did they weld all the brackets and bracing on or did you?
Are they coded welders? Qualified?
Did they have a welding procedure written up by an engineer?
Did they fully strip the axel to do the welding and did they straighten the axel post fabrication?
Did they give you all the welding procedure paperwork on completion of the work?
I’d love to know!
Cheers John, I won’t be spending a cent at arb ever.
That is why I vote for you JC.
On another front, once upon a time, when vehicle manufacturers used empirics and the rule of thumb as well as being relatively unconstrained by crash worthiness and other regulations, a time when finite element analysis and other voodoo had not been invented yet, there was a lot of leeway for mods such as GVM upgrades. As you rightly point out, modern vehicles are at the pinnacle of engineering perfection and even slight deviations puts them in la la land. I don't think many people appreciate this.
Do any of the car/4wd makers offer GVM upgrades in their parts store? If they dont, that really proves the point!
I upgraded my new Lexus with Wiper tech wiper blades, best upgrade ever.
While i get what your trying to say but it is kind of stupid why would any manufacturer offer this as an option letting you buy a cheaper vehicle then upgrading it that then compete with their own more expensive options
I've been travelling for over 40 years and everytime I go, i find that I still take to much which is about 25% of what I used to take with me.
A long time ago, back in the seventies when infrastructure was a lot more primitive then what it is now around the world, a bloke that used to take the old XT500 Yamaha's on world type trips, his advice was, and he practiced this, to make a heap of the stuff that you really think you will need, so hear is your stuff laying on the floor then, halve if, then... halve it again, then.... take the most useless items away and pack the rest, ive found he was right. As I said you'll find at the end of the trip, you still took too much!
What I make sure of is that I have the essentials depending on where I go and more fuel and water, oil, food then I think I need as well as FIRST AID, fire extinguisher and basic spares/ tools/cooking gear, comunications, paper maps, basic swag, clothes and a well checked and serviced vehicle if and when I go into the outback. It's all pointed at getting there and making it back safely, entertainment is the trip, if I need something, well there is shops all over the place before I get there.
K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupit) really is the best way, stay lite.
My LC is well below GVM loaded, 35 years old and 650.000km on the clock, no problems with shocks, springs, chassis or anything else at all on the trips, on some very challenging tracks ive done all over Oz in the 22 years ive owned it.
Thanks John, very interesting. A follow up on light trucks for towing would be welcome.
GVM upgrade for the shit box is chainsaw in the front while the backs loaded with wood, an inch of the bump stops & extra 8psi in the back tyres.
I have a 200 series GX - the perfect, simple towing/touring vehicle in Australia? It weighs 2640 kg (nearly 100kg less than fancy models with a third row). It does have a bull bar, 100kg, rear bar 80 kg, twin spare steel wheels with light truck All terrain tyres another 50 - 60kg (all 6 tyres, maybe more). It does have a roof rack, max trax a shovel (i dont know 15 kg). I like having water with us so maybe 20kg (actually have a 50L water tank but lets not be greed - who ever dies from lack of water in Australia?). Then the fuel tank is 138L so maybe 135kg. I do have some recovery gear and a medical kit (20kg), cargo separator, a few tools/oil filter/ fluids (10kg). There is the fire extinguisher and UHF and I did upgrade the audio to have a screen and some parking sensors plus a rear camera so I can find the trailer hitch, (10 kg) and so the tow pack (50kg??). Now if my camper trailer has a tow ball mass of 150Kg (going light weight as it is rated to 350kg). Now I am getting in, do I take the wife, kids or dog? Do I take any clothes, food - I guess I can stick more in the trailer - we are rated to tow 3500kg.
So I got the GVM kit and we are rated for an extra 400kg. Yes it is a potential extra load on the engine and maybe I (or someone) will get 10000km less out of it ie in another 350,000 km. Decided not to drive over 100km on lump gravel roads - only because I dont want to over work the chassis (has anyone ever bent a 200 series chassis without dropping a tank on it?). And I dont drive around every day like that - it is just school holidays.
But really - to go on holiday in Australia do I need a Unimog? Is that meant to be my every day car? And the big US dual cabs have crap load carrying too! Really a base model 200 series is an inappropriate car to drive around Australia? Maybe that why fully 50% (well if you count Prado's as Land Cruisers - which I generally dont) of cars driving through the Kimberly are Land Cruisers? Not that they are really that special - just when it breaks there is a 50% chance the next car the comes along will be a LC and the guy/girl will know how to fix it. Or any mechanic up there can fix it and has the parts.
Does a GVM kit make your car a better car - no. Does it make it safer - no. Does it prevent you from being over your GVM like the 75% of other cars taking their kids on holidays - hopefully. I thought I was doing the right thing ( I ie was sold ). I did tell my insurer about 'upgrades' they did not say anything. Thanks for ruining the next holidays John. And I do love everything you have ever said.
It's not the vehicle manufacturer throwing you under the bus.
If you do shit like this, it's you throwing yourself under the bus.
Correct - under the bus either way, however.
Currently out West, heard some of the Grey Nomad crowd chatting. Bloke got pulled up by the Mermaids, 4x4 plus trailer/caravan, weighed in at 1.1 tonnes over mass. Could not move until he offloaded that much - plus the fines that I am sure were handed to him by those now-happy Mermaids. And we see such loads all the time - the 4x4 loaded to the roof, roofrack bulging, and the 3-axle caravan.
Never quite understood the urge to buy a vehicle then change it completely. Alas I do have a Land Rover habit having had a 1989 110 V8 soft top for 18 years and 168k Kms.( its ex military so its Kms not Miles). Its worked hard and played hard. I haven't bent it, sheared anything or ripped out the sump on my trips to Fox Poo Lake ( we dont have Dingos in Old south Wales)...and she has always got me home under her own steam.
Having said that ,I wouldn't touch a new JLR vehicle with a 10 ft barge pole ( do you have barge poles in Oz?)
Next new Vehicle for me is a Toyota :-)
We don't do barges here - just tinnies... lol..
Why not keep the landy?
unless it is a daily, a Landy 110 should last a whole lot more than +168k in the UK - not as if "ferry miles" are all that far. (my - Aussie - current Ford Falcon ute [RTV] is at 264k km... Hoping it holds itself together for a while more (residuals are at $0 - 2003 build) It still does a job and gets home (most of the time) )... Enjoy the experience, modern motoring has gone too soft on us....
@@lukedontknow9283 I am...its my toy. I giving the daily drive, a baby Beemer, to my son
@@kadmow I concur!
A similar but different scenario is my F250 which has a much higher GVM in the US but is greatly reduced when imported so as to be driven on a car licence. Now while the car/ truck licence cutoff is 4499kg for some unknown reason someone pulled 4219kg from their arse and decided that would be the GVM instead of 4499kg. The GCM is 9071kg which makes far more sense when combined with 4500kg towing.
Upgrading the GVM is a simple matter of handing $800 to an engineer for a new plate.
The otherwise identical stablemate F350 has a GVM of 6350kg.
I don’t know if John knows this but most manufacturers will attempt to throw you under the bus even when their crap box goes poopy just sitting in your driveway, heaven forbid you actually try to drive it especially off road.
Geez! For a while there, I thought I was listening to a comedian with the best grasp of the double entendre ever. Had me peeing myself laughing numerous times.
Thanks Ted. I was compensating for being Captain Serious, earlier...
After my 2nd baby, I also have a habit of pissing myself
Flippin hilarious cheers
I’d suggest you watch this video whilst wearing adult diaper
Been saying this for years, it still baffles me, as a former automotive design engineer, how any authorised engineer approves them for use on the road. Part of the modification approval process here in Shitsvillle states that "all" ADR requirements for the vehicle must still be met post modification, not just for the parts fitted. Not totally sure how you prove every single component on the vehicle subject to weight, which is pretty much everything, still complies with something it has never been tested to after a GVM upgrade. The amount of paperwork generated in a vehicle approval is immense (I've both sought approval & been the guy in a govt department authorising it) & completely relative to every component on the vehicle as manufactured, to the weight specified by the manufacturer & I've yet to see this replicated in any paperwork available from a suspension retailer.
Still, a few grand to someone with 'suspension expert' in their name will undoubtedly prove me incorrect & someone who doesn't realise they've bought a luxury SUV with shopping bag payload rather than an offroad tourer will anecdotally tell me I'm a soft cock & part of the problem🤷♂️
Hear-friggin'-hear. I don't see how compliance is ensured, either.
I’ve often thought that if you need to upgrade the GVM of your 4wd then maybe you need to consider a more appropriate vehicle like a 4wd light truck that has the desired GVM already, ie iveco daily and Mitsubishi canter
@@scottfyfe1369 A lot of people have trouble convincing insurers to insure a heavy vehicle (Iveco Daily, Canter, Unimog) for personal use,, also the cost of entry is generally much higher.
@@AutoExpertJC John, it's kind of linked to your current videos on 4wd dickheadery, at some point can you please do a video on the, remarkably dubious, user adjustable air bags people fit to 'level' their heavy vehicles & how this affects braking performance when fully, or over loaded. I'm giving up telling people their vehicles are supposed to droop when fully loaded as it activates the brake load sensing valve & when they then pump the bags up to bring the rear back up, it replicates an empty vehicle at the valve. For some reason that goes well above most people, or more likely gets drowned out by the "she'll be right mate" in their heads 😤
Mitsubishi Canter comes in a four wheel drive variation. They are capable vehicles. If my memory is correctly, Iveco have a smaller four wheel drive truck too.
I think you have captured the story of the GVM update very well and stated it succinctly! Very good points and probably less expensive in the long run.
Great video John. I’d be curious to know whether you need to upgrade the brakes when you increase your vehicle GVM?
I welded up the long ranger tank sold at ARB for 6yrs. Have thousands driving around that I welded. Funny thing is that it has a compliance number for the welding. I saw a few things in my time there that I still sctrach my head about, 5yrs after leaving.
Great video John. What about braking with the increased loads? And I'm talking like fully loaded and towing down long mountains roads.
What constantly baffles me in the 4WD After Market Accessories industry is the lack of move to modern lightweight, high strength materials to keep the accessories weight down from the start, like carbon fibre composites, modern aluminum laminates like VENTURELITE . FFS most websites don't even list the accessories weights.
The less weight on the vehicle in day-to-day driving, the less fuel used and less wear and tear. As they say in the military ounces equal pounds.
Hi John. Very well mde case. Please do a show on the implications of offroad work on one's insurance arrangements. Thanks
This is gold,
Im currently waiting on my new 300 to arrive and was wondering whether I should get the GVM upgrade.
Im now convinced that i will go with the standard setup.
One question though.
Whats your thoughts on a lift kit???
Thanks John. Refreshing change to get cool factual breeze in a world of hot poopy air. 👍
Unrelated bleat that I'd love to hear your opnion on:
I miss Utes and Wagons. I hate the current range of SUV's and Light Trucks. Yes you can get a wagon from a european manufacturer, but they seem remarkably expensive for the product you're getting. [Edit] Ok, some of the Skoda and Mazda ones seem affordable, but still.
Exactly this. How many people really need a dual cab ute? Or how many SUV owners would be better served with a wagon?
I felt exactly the same way! In 2017 I bought a Skoda Superb wagon & honestly wouldn’t consider anything else now. Before the Skoda I had a Merc GLC & was not impressed aside from the economy of the diesel. Hence after 18 months I got rid of it.
Estate cars are the best cars- Twin Cam
Hey mate great video.
Could you do another video about the chassis bracing kits you can buy for duel cabs that meant to stop banana bent duel cabs are they worth it or just another wast of time.
From what I have observed the weakest link is the nut behind the wheel. So many poor decisions being made...
Solid gold, the ending!
To me this sort of thing is what we used to call a suspension upgrade, where if you were towing a 16 foot caravan over some distance each holiday period you would soon find the ass of your vehicle sagged even when not towing due to the rear springs got tired.
Thats when the OEM tow packs started to be a thing,all those were are uprated springs shocks but no real tow limit improvement it just ment after towing the caravan for a couple of e=years the ass of the car was not dragging on its bumper on the ground when you tried to carry a normal day to day load.
John, good video, may I suggest you do another video which drills down a bit more into the alternatives. What would you recommend for a typical cashed up grey nomad doing the big lap towing a 3.5 tonne van 90% on road but also the Gibb and the cape?
Are 3.5t caravans actually common in Australia, in the UK the biggest twin axle ones are under 2.5t gvm
The American truck market is there for those people.
More comfort, more ability, more performance.
But no, they just stick to the 2t Thai trucks
Hey John, what do you think about adding rear airbags for towing? I'm under the GVM and well within the GCM, TBW and towing limit. But when towing the rear of the car is low.
For reference. Prado with 3t limit, 300kg TBW. Camper trailer ATM 1950kg, fully loaded ball weight 220kg.
Spot on. Fit for purpose, in standard form imo. I did 2 vehicles with suspension upgrades. Both vehicles had door drops, vibration wear, other issues etc. well said 💯
Good advice John I just bought fuso canter fg 4x4 for the same reason same price as new hilux has all bells a whistles on it
The best reason to get a GVM upgrade is so you can push your brand new Sahara into a commercial vehicle category and reap the financial tax benefits that come with that as a business owner.
The amount of brand new 200 series landcruiser wagons that have GVM upgrades for this exact reason i believe would outstrip the individuals who actually need a GVM upgrade for towing/touring.
JC you just saved my family, myself and my “22 Rugged X! Thanks for the informative video mate!
I’ve had some many discussions about this with several LC200 owners that have had GVM/GCM upgrades giving them a grand total of over 8.5T. I love it how they think that they will be able to claim warranty when there transmission shits it self as they belt along the highway at 100kph at a cool 8.5t 😂😂
Just because you can do something, it doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.
Hey John would love to know the difference of the GVM upgrades say when you register a Isuzu NPR truck so it can be driven on a car license versus when it’s registered as a heavy vehicle and the GVM is upgraded, do you need to do suspension upgrades etc or is it already done in the truck and just a lower GVM when it’s Regod as being able to be driven on a standard car license
Thanks mate
You can generally voluntary downrate the GVM with no modification as long as the unladen weight isn't within a certain percentage of the new GVM.
I can't remember the scale offhand as it wasn't really common in the UK, where I was an automotive design engineer, due to the passenger car licence limit being 3500kg there (& most of the rest of the world). That's also why 3500kg is generally the maximum you see from the manufacturers.
It is only to allow a car licenced driver to drive a small truck that is originally just over 4.5t. The truck is re-plated to limit it's use at 4.5t and if you are caught carrying too much weight (i.e over 4.5t total vehicle weight) then you are in a whole heap of poo. It can be replated back to it's original weight but it will cost for the plate and the rego costs will also increase as now it;s a heavy vehicle.
@@dtengineering1 thanks very much David for your response that makes a lot of sense. I could not definitely find anything on Google about that
Thanks again mate!
@@Drew_peaballs_128 No problems. Happy to help. I worked for many years at an Isuzu Truck Dealership in QLD. GVM reductions were very popular on our Isuzu NPR's. Many people/business's needed the size of the NPR but didn't need the weight carrying ability plus it allowed them/their partner/employees to drive it on a car licence plus the rego was also cheaper.
Have been on the Iveco website and downgrading the GVM to 4500 is an option in the Iveco Daily. Think Mitsubishi Canter has this option too.
Thanks for adding a bit of knowledge to an otherwise boring day here in the lockdown capital of the world
thank you for share detail video
Very good points you have brought up. I agree with what was said in your video. Myself like other's have gone down the GVM upgrade route mainly due to the crap forced down our throats by after market manufacturers who tell masses its the only way to go. Hmmmm 🤔🤔🤔. Does the ADR rules need to change to reflect the current 4wd scene. So manufacturers of 4wds can produce something more suitable?
GVM doesn't increase axle max weights, which is usually the limiting factor.
Hey John. I did some work on a 79 series Landcruiser ute and it had a GVM upgrade but it looked like it was a factory fitment. Standard GVM was 3300kg and upgraded GVM was 3900kg. It had a second compliance plate next to the main one that had an Australian Govt emblem on it. The writing on it was:
"Second stage of manufacture Category NB1" Then it had the VIN and make and model and 3900kg GVM, then down the bottom it had "This vehicle was manufactured by Lovells Springs PTY LTD to comply with the motor vehicle standards act 1989"
What's the deal with that? Can you get a GVM upgraded vehicle from the dealer?
Watch CZcams, there’s some people that get the upgrades done before the new car is 1st registered and delivered, thereby getting GCM upgrade too. Only GVM can be upgraded after 1st reg
I have this done on my brand new sr5 hilux by superior engineering it’s a gvm upgrade with weld in chassis bracing 4 inch lift 33 inch Tyers, I can tell you the prosses is very strenuous, It can only be done before it’s first rego and it isn’t cheap, ha ha.
Hi John, what’s your thoughts on the Jmacx 4495KG GVM upgrade on the 79 series cruiser?
I think its the only way for the 70 series
The camo t-shirt is good blending into the cave does reeelly good!
If you want to maintain your warranty then just don't mod it. I had a gvm upgrade fitted to my 5 year old 200 series landcruiser, so that I was actually legal riding down the road with my caravan and never had a problem.
Was your insurance affected?
@@Monsieur405 don't think so, the gvm upgrade was engineered and certified and the insurance company new the vehicle had been modified.
Any aftermarket GVM upgrade in my opinion is a potentially dangerous idea, so much so I feel it should be illegal (not sure about my situation in the UK, never looked into it). However, when you look at what Land Rover did to the old Defender 110 when customers specified the heavy duty option (1-: 1500 kg, 2-: 2200 kg, GVM: 3500 kg vs. 1-: 1200-1250 kg, 2-: 1750-1850 kg, GVM: 2950-3050 depending upon year and spec.) they did more than just springs and dampers. They also specified a reinforced chassis, different anti-roll bars (some earlier vehicles in standard form didn't have any), and heavy duty wheels with longer studs rated at 2200 kg each, in effect everything was upgraded to Defender 130 specification where possible as it was already rated to the exact same loading. Now if you tell me that just changing springs and dampers achieves the same then you are delusional.
Hi John, sorry I has read to disagree with you. As an Engineering teacher for 40 years and a student of Engineering for years longer than that, i have full calculations to show that the weakest link in a high riding 4 x 4 is the nut that supplies a vertical force (usually in the vicinity of 1000 N) to the surface of the operator support and retention system. Lloyd
Hey, are you able to post the calculations so I understand? And what engineering field you teach and work in? I am interested in understanding how you calculate it.
@@AaronVanDerLinden in plain English; the driver is the reason. A 1000N force is a 100kg driver sitting on a seat behind the wheel. For the record I teach Engineering Studies in high school in NSW. Once called Industrial Arts and then Engineering Science. The syllabus is wide and varied and doesn’t settle on one specific field, but teaches students how to problem solve and why engineers do what they do.
My brother in law downgraded the GVM on his over landing 4WD Mitsubishi truck. So my sister can share the driving with a regular car license. The truck has a slide on type camper on the back ( which he can jack off, haha ) and they tow a fishing boat. All legal and honky dory apparently. They've spent every winter up north somewhere for the last ten years or so without any dramas. Can't wait to read the hate comments on this video. thanks, Darren.
ARB installed a Bull bar on a clients brand new Ranger XLT and they used only tape to hold in place the front bar sensors that were in the original bar. We went nuts when they dropped out and I will never use them again.
In the Triton chassis is a hole right in the weak point. I welded in strengthening plates and webbing in the area to prevent bent banana chassis syndrome.
Great one Johnno 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 As always loving your work. I honestly don’t see the point of all the “toys” we see on these Utes today. Back as an apprentice mechanic at the end of the 70s early 80s I remember very few of these places doing these Ute mods even existed and looking around I still don’t see the point. I rode a bike or drove a Holden Drover back in the day with the basics tent, guns, shit shovel and the like. Whatever happened to roughing it?
Ute mods fill the void left by the demise of Holden and Ford. It's just boys playing with toys. Different toys; same boys.
@@AutoExpertJC was thinking it’s a good thing Holden and Ford Australia aren’t around to collect their share of job keeper when you bought up about ARB. 😂🤣😂
@@AutoExpertJC Macho male 101. How to get yourself a 'rig' without a balanced diet and physical exercise.
@blaylum yeah and I never saw Mike and Mal Leyland over load or hang trendy shit off Kev the Kombi or his mates and they carried the tribe and massive amounts of camera equipment.
Hi John!
Thanks for a very informative video on GVM. I wonder how much of a vehicle's GVM rating is due to chassis strength and how much due to engine capacity? I know you say in another one of your videos that it is transmission and driveline components that fail first, but take Jimny (Jb74) for instance, it has a ladder chassis and live solid axles, and reduced ratio gear box which are suppose to be more durable and able to handle more punishment, yet it's maximum allowable payload is only 325 to 350kg. Would it's 1.5L petrol engines be the main reason for such a low rating? I know in your does size matter video says it doesn't in general but 1.5L has gotta reduce the max payload right? Other 4wd allowable payloads are easily double this.
Btw have you done a review on the Jimny? (Gen4) I couldn't find your review on them.
Great advice from an expert thank you
Well said John, everything you said hit the nail on the head, it's everything I've been preaching for a while. Too many people don't think about the drivetrain or the chassis of the vehicle when doing a GVM upgrade. I suppose the only real reason to do one is being a tradie with tools, but even then, he should have put his money into a light truck instead 🤷♂️
I am about to buy a patrol and was wondering if the gvm upgrade to the max of the two axle weights 1650 + 2030 = 3680 compared to the 3500 gvm at least it will cover 95% of the tow ball weight I am thinking this upgrade to be very good because it only covers the axle weights and no change of componentry on the patrol. Have seen some upgrades to patrol to 4085 I think this is crazy especially for a fully independent vehicle thanks for the vid food for thought cheers
beard stroker spotted
I installed a gvm upgrade for the 2018 Hilux, from Terrain Tamer. Day to day I go to worksites about 400kg under gvm.. but when we go away, fully packed up, we go about 100-150kgs over factory GVM. That's why I decided to get one. But I'm certainly not going to fit a heavy servicebody/canopy and constantly drive near its new GVM, that's nuts . I completely agree with you John, the upgrade kits aren't a magic bullet, and ideally, you shouldn't constantly use a kit that is rated just shy of the axle breaking strength 🤣
BUT... expecting any vehicle to perform NEAR its limits - knowing that surprises (potholes/wash-outs/sudden turns in the road/etc) are GOING to occur, probably on a surprisingly regular basis - is delusionally optimistic thinking and is likely to lead to serious failure sooner or later! You can't get through life relying on good luck - it WILL bite you in the A$$ before long!!
@@markchip1 being at gvm isnt near its limits because that is covered by warranty you could have your vehicle at gvm everyday from new and if it was to fail they would have to cover you. Gvm that you get from factory isnt the absolute working limit it is the safe working limit meaning they know that at that point or below there wont be any issues
Good info about the gvm upgrade
Late to this... Anyway...
Was at a caravan park.
Couple next door
Ford Ranger with this massive caravan, size of a house.
In order to comply...
HD had the ranger modified with an extra axle, so it was a 6 wheeler.
$50,000.(no extra differ, just axle).
Said he had been pulled over twice for load testing.
Once WA, once QLD.
Got to admit, mean looking Ranger.
You always make good points...sometimes you waffle on to much but you're right on the money about jobkeeper 👍
Hi, what are your thoughts on non chassis SUV? New landrover as an example, they are monocoque construction.
Hey John, been looking at the Mahindra ute's lately, and they have a GVM factory upgrade with small lift, bull bar, tow bar, side rails, black painted bits. i thought it was cool that a full w/tee was fully back buy the salesman/car yard, but it appears to be true. Your thoughts please.
Good video John...the message remains the same..BUY THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB, OUT OF THE BOX! If you need a light duty half car/half UTE, buy a Ranger/Hilux/Triton, if you need more GVM move to the 70 series or RAM1500, if still not enough we have the option of RAM2500 (4.5T) and it's still a UTE! before going to Iveco.. The options are out there. Shame on the ADR for approving these GVM upgrades...
Thank you sir.
I love the blatant honesty, I share similar beliefs, non existent R&D for anything other that the spring rates and a shitty weld on brace kit to the axles in my vehicles case, I see more problems with the added load long term than the problems at the camp site because I didn't pack a cast iron camp oven or a bloody 200l water tank for showers haha.
In the case of a MU-X it lists the GVM as 2750 and on the same page it lists max axle load of 2950 . Will a 200 upgrade to max axle load cut the mustard ?
John interesting fact, I was talking to a Police Officer about how I see so many vehicles that are hopelessly overloaded. He said he didn't know what the two numbers meant. So I explained it to him. he said and I quote, "We won't do it as it will only hurt old people".
Understand what you’re saying about aftermarket upgrade, but why do dealers allow GVM & GCM upgrade pre-delivery if there is a problem with the finished product? The dealer is ultimately selling and registering a supposed ‘non compliant’ car 🤷♂️
Following
Because they make money out of selling it to you and it will void your warranty not their problem.
@@brad9529 Pretty sure it is their problem knowingly registering and selling a non compliant car, it’s illegal
Gvm upgrades are quite common on the fiat Ducato in Europe as they are the most common platform for motorhomes, you have companies like AL-KO who design the entire chassis from the cab back and with twin rear axles can be rated up to 5000kg, when the factory max gvm is only 4250kg
I've also seen Darkside Developments uprate a Amarok to 3500kg with a 7000kg GCM with the use of air on the rear axle, I think that's not too bad if it's just used for towing trailers on western European motorways
I've never had to put a lift kit on my 4x4 Massey Ferguson, it seems to do the job straight from the dealer!
you're not trying hard enough lol
I have just purchased a used 200 VX that had a pre Rego GVM ARB 3580 kg upgrade done, I am turfing it for a 4000 kg Lovells GVM. With a reasonable amout of kit bolted onto it with 273l of fuel and me in it it weighs 3400 kg, can’t legally put my van and missus on and in it. Everyone knows the 200s have a poor load rating so only choice is GVM or a truck .
I have spoken to a couple of groups about gvm upgrades. Around the Suzuki Jimny models. The low payload on them could be a lot nicer if it were a 100-200kg more. Iron man 4x4 managed to certify a 350kg increase on the latest generation, exceeding standard axle load limits. With near identical chassis and axle designs; using the same drive line components as my model (same part numbers). I questioned them about what they did to get certified, they stated they did destructive testing on axles and bearings, the load baring elements. I was worried as through my own experience the axles are not that strong. Through being on the heavy side I bent a rear axle and have since had the axles braced. Still i wish i could have the adr approval to load to the same degree as it would be easier. easier staying legal and covered by insurance.
As it stands i have had to decided my Jack off canopy is just to much for the jimny and again am going down another avenue to lighten my camping set up. Additionally still going down the route of getting a 10% gvm upgrade just to give me more legal clearance.
I know i should upgrade to a mid sized ute; however i have that disease, that bug that has bitten and made me a Jimny enthusiast hahaha.
Did anyone else think of the CSR Triton when John said "Look up 4wd ute bent chassis" ?
Probably an exception that most people wouldn't consider......
I have a Chevy Silverado (2012). It started life as a 2500HD which meant it initially had a GVM of 4,536kg. Because of our laws relating to car/truck licencing, the original owner had it downgarded to a GVM of 4,490kg.
However, amongst the circa $80K he spent an accessorising the big girl, he included a 6" lift which included an extra 4 leaves in the rear spring pack.
When I bought it, it was already over that GVM because of all the "stuff" he'd added (3x heavy AGM batteries in the 750kg canopy, 2x fridge slides, massive TUFF bullbar....etc ) and it tipped the scales at around 4,650kg!!!
So, I did 2 things....put her on a diet by removing a lot of the stuff I didn't want/need and also had the GVM increased. The latter was a non-event really because the additional springs he'd added to the back end, effectively made it a 3500HD (single rear wheel...not dually) and my GVM is now 5,171kg. I already had a truck license, so that wasn't a drama at all.
These Chevys (and the equivalent Ford and RAMs) have chassis that are built tough and they also have the rear axle in the centre of the payload area. Note the only difference between a 2500HD and a 3500HD (SRW), is the rear springs. Same chassis, brakes, wheels etc.
Too bad the little dual cabs most people end up with are just so poorly engineered.
Always thought it was crazy that upgrading CONSUMABLE items in a car (shocks, springs, brake pads) upgrade your gvm. What happens after a few years of driving fully loaded on corrugations when the special GVM shocks are blowns but the car is carrying several hundred kgs more than it was designed to carry?
The jobkeeper rip off by large company's is a disgrace, when small hospitality/tourism could use, or have used that support
Just get an old school 79 series, one with solid axles. My 79 has this and has handled very strenuous stuff with ease. Yes they have a GVM limit but at their core they are very heavy duty.
Nice PSA John and the BNN was quite funny.
John, while I totally understand and agree where you are coming from, I believe a GVM upgrade is necessary in some situations. I use my LC200 as a daily driver and also for getting away to places such as "Dingo Piss Creek". It is used as a 4WD and touring vehicle for probably about 40% of it's time (before the Zombie Apocalypse anyway) and the rest of the time in town with a family, and has become the defacto "bus" for running all of the sports gear and footballer kids around due to it's size. With the Touring / Camping fitout adding the extra weight, then loading it with a full tank of fuel and 5 adults / heavy footballer type kids - the car was over it's factory GVM! In fact, some basic calcs from the Toyota specs mean that as a "7 Seater", off the showroom floor, you could quite easily exceed the Factory GVM anyway. Not sure how the Insurance would hold up if you had an incident, even as stock, but were technically overweight? This scenario seemed to be missing from the video, where the manufacturer's specs are not quite up to the sales pitch ... just some food for thought ...
While you may think a “GVM upgrade” is required in some situations, as John said your taking a lot of risk in doing it. If you’ve still got factory warranty your automatically wiping that by modifying the vehicle and if you don’t tell your insurer then you are wiping your insurance as well. Potentially a high price to pay for a GVM upgrade.
@@David-lr2vi it’s insured mate. GVM and all … better that than running around illegally I suggest. You seemed to miss the point I was making though … sigh…
@@jamiehamilton1340 I do understand the point. In reality you shouldn’t have to do a GVM upgrade (and wear the risks inherent in that) just to have the vehicle fully loaded with people and fuel. It should be law that they make the vehicle actually cope with being used properly and reasonably loaded from the factory. If it has say 5 adult seating positions they should have to allocate say 80kgs each to those seating positions plus fuel plus say 150-200kgs of cargo capacity depending on the size of the cargo hold. It’s quite unacceptable that your vehicle becomes overloaded just by having the full compliment of bums on seats!
@@David-lr2vi exactly. I think John missed that scenario in the video though ...
What’s everyone’s thoughts about airbag’s? Just for when towing a caravan
BBN section of this report is just pure gold. :D
Couldn’t agree more not to mention most new vehicles are 5 star ANCAP rated which you just compromise by changing the dynamics of the vehicle moving away from the standard platform.
GVM is specified by OEM manufacturers in their ADR submissions. Their testing confirms vehicles meets all regulatory, durability and other internal targets at the GVM. ADR's only apply to new vehicles, so the aftermarket manufacturers cannot lodge ADR submissions for their products. And they don't have the money, resources or technical knowledge and experience to test all the ADR's that a kit which increases GVM would effect or the durability targets with vehicle loaded at the higher GVM. Crash testing and airbag recalibration - no way. Any claim they meet ADR with their accessories is bs.
My Cruiser Is capable of towing 4t safely with the right springs, dampers bushes etc , that said my caravan usually only weighs 3.5t, and at that load you can only legally shove 300kg into a std cruiser including the bull bar passengers luggage cargo etc. The std springs where made for comfort, the GVM upgrade springs can take another 500kg if needed and are ideal for towing.
I have the gvm btc upgrade and although I can load it to 4t towing and 3.8 t in the cruiser I don’t, I also use common sense with a heavy load. I just don’t want to be skating on the limits and getting fined. There is no way Im buying a pan tech truck so I can avoid doing a GVM upgrade, I am going to use my versatile 4wd. And use it sensibly and legally and at the end of the day you pay to play.
I do however agree you need to have a suitable tow vehicle, those retarded little ute’s do not cut the mustard for towing anything over 2.8 tons. Another issue is the distance between the tow hitch and the back wheels halfway down the ute, this is a big moment arm that acts as a lever for a caravan to throw the arse around.
I understand that upgrading the gvm of a car/ute etc is a bad idea,
What is your thoughts on ATM increases for small trailers,
For example, I have a camper trailer that has a max of 1000kg, I haven't been able to weigh the whole unit yet, but the ball download is ~120kg. So I suspect upon getting it weighed, it will be very close to, or over the 1T limit.
I'm considering getting a qualified engineering shop to have a look at the chassis, springs, etc and make modifications as required to obtain something around the 1.2-1.3T range.
Probably cheaper just to replace the trailer with a bigger one...
What do you think of the recently announced Qld proposals for how GVM upgrades might be approved? Still trying to decide if it's a good idea.
Very glad my old-school Defender came strong enough as standard not to need upgrading.
What are the "good idea/ bad idea" implications of the jack off campers? I'm genuinely curious. If I bought a modern 4wd ute, put a jack off camper on the back (a sensible one, everything I need, nothing I don't and well within GVM) and then drove it to Dingo Piss Creek, would I have a good time? I imagine carrying my modest accommodation on the back of my ute would be much closer to "fun" than towing a 3 and a half tonne caravan.
100% correct! Firstly, most people have bought the wrong vehicle for the job. If I bought a new vehicle, I wouldn't do one. Good luck with your warranty if there's a failure! What you're really getting is a spring upgrade. A gvm upgrade would need to consider axle loads, wheels and tyres, all rotating loads, transmission, engine cooling and more. Back in the day, drive lines were over engineered. Not today. They are engineered, which is code for just good enough. Also, I doubt chassis strength is really up to it. What about GCM????
thanks for explaining that i'll reconsider the weight of item I purchase. it safer many thanks liked & subbed :)
the slide on/jackoff canopy bodys are also generally not covered by insurance companies, at the end of the day. they are not a fixed part of the vehicle, hence not covered by insurance.
i wonder how many people actually know that......
imagine if old jack jacks off at camp take the vehicle for a drive, somethings happens to the canopy body when you're gone. well its not the vehicle and not covered by the insurance policy,
likewise, if it was something covered and its not on the back and you roll the ute well then the insurance company would legally be entitled to keep it as part of a total loss claim.