The Cult of Odin: Ecstatic Warbands of Pre-Christian Europe | UiO Student Conference 2023
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2023
- Óðinn/Odin to the Norse, Wodan to the continental Saxons and Woden to the Anglo-Saxons and Frisians - who was this one-eyed god of poetry, wisdom, war, and kings? In this talk, Tom Kaye, MA student at the University of Oslo, explores the many facets of this god, in particular his connection to the frenzied warband of berserkers and ulfhednar wolf-warriors.
Tom has recently started his own channel about Norse Pagan Religion, the first video is here:
• Norse Paganism: Religi...
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#asatru #pagan #odin
No spear dance?! I've been had!
How about the sword dance?
You should look into the old Irish war bands -The Fianna- loads of similarities with the Nordic/Germanic/Gaulish war bands from the wearing of Wolf skins to having "Warp Spasms" or Berserker battle madness/lust, poetry, Martial art training etc.. one member of the Fianna is Cu Chulainn who after having a Berserker/Warp Spasm moment the king in the ring fort ordered all the women present to go out to him topless and then fill 3 baths with icy water to "cool him off" and he boiled the first one to steam!, the second one he heated till almost boiling and the last one finally cooled him down and the topless women distracted him from killing others while still cooling down. Also the most common name in Ireland is Murphy which in Irish is Mac Murchada and translates into Sea Warriors/Sea Raiders which shows that Norse/Danes/Saxons weren't the first or last in Europe to go a Viking they just did it when people could write and record about it and yeah we all had pretty similar customs leading way back into the Neolithic era(iron age).
You are spot on there with the Fianna. They have been linked to the Proto-Indo-European Koryos by researchers. Both the Wild Hunt, Salii, cult of Apollo Lyceus, Korybantes, Quirinus, Mars and úlfheðnar link to the Koryos as well. The koryos being from the neolithic era. Quirinus also having a link to the idea of carnival as much as ancestors. Masking also being involved, but also the liberation and freedmen idea, and being a man of the tribe being linked to Quirinus as well. The priests of Quirinus also doing a spear ritual.
I have been myself working on tapping into the koryos archetype from a Jungian lens through rituals. To re-enact it. I have been able to do this to great effect, being able to tap into the wolf rage in the woods. I generally do this far away from people, as it can be rather intense.
@@themomentpodcast You and Lon Chaney, Jr.
My concept of Odin and what you explained blew my mind! Odin was a Disney character in thought to me but you unveiled something amazing! Thank you!
Would be interesting to see the lecture on Anglo Saxon paganism referenced in the Frisian paganism video, as well as ant others from this event
The finding of an attestation of a word that linguists reconstructed is so cool
Super interesting. Thank you for throwing this lecture up for the world to see!
It would be super if you could repeat the questions back before answering them, so that those of us not in the actual room could hear them.
Thank you!
I always like calling it the Divine Ecstasy, when Odin blesses his warriors. Maybe it sounds more theatrical, but it sounds about right.
I found an interesting reference to the Wild Hunt in the story of the Trial of the Holy Berserker Bearskin. It's a really good story if you come upon it.
I can provide a link, but I know that people don't tend to trust links
I like more the word weed. 😅😂
Great video as always dude
WoTaN Poem
For Wotan
[Rough Cut IP]
All I have done and stories spun, hounds run, enemies and wenches broken
All are bespoken
For Wotan
All that I have I have won
and those I’ve smote
Those bested in hollow hills and valleys and from whom their souls I’ve wrung from them and held up to All Father, for his Norns to shear the strings of their
Lives offer, to make the late warriors wives lift up their wails and shrieking screams like gales regale
The quick amongst the mouldering fallen
Their women’s tears for him to taste
All these have I brung
For Wotan
All I have read and watched and learned, taught and sung and in between all the hazel branches played and prayed, bled and fucked, fought and killed,
Blood of outlanders I have spilled,
all of the villages I have torched whose women I have taken to make sweet moans to please the ears of him whose mine life is as nothing
And this and more that comprises all that I’ve seen witnessed and brought on,
For Wotan
And all that has been told is said like an echo whose whispers and laughter has fled through grains of the world ocean’s whirling hour glass of sands, and sounds resounding trickle down in red measures of men
For we all are to make
the path which takes us,
If we could we’d dare not choose it
That journey of hurts
The trail shed lives’ stones
Upon which in each other’s and our own
Trodden slings and hurt slung arrows foot steps
must we all finally follow,
and yet from whence
for some another fork may break,
to feast and dine and stand as we do now upon
the ebb of the moon’s flood
Of time’s tides,
to have sailed through the ages
Been sung by sages
Cried cries of havoc,
havoc
Made war and wrecked love
As we stabbed and we cut and hacked our wavering lives the legnth and width and breadth of our days daily bread all through
And finally those we’ve bound and woven tight
as worduride’s Norn tapestries
For to have laid before the feet and hung in the halls of Wotan
And now my battle cry fear, trace through lines of wise men’s faces chew through shield walls hewn with scarlet not in any but the last day’s sun’s setting
To raise it again
To make them to meet my thrust and cower beneath the wasps of our bow strung shots
To make foemen as corpse hall meat
my wovenage my fleets of sea borne fury,
the rabble I eschew and break against my heir, enunciate in the blood red spittle of Sagas of our land and mine hosts of glory
and Speake my spell to the fates
for my enemies
to make and pull down in the undertow
To drown in the sorrows
I’ve spoken
them to bind to graves ravens fain to carry tales of
Naught but their woman’s tears to sting and fall within like rain in
Like curses we’ve spat them out to
lay asunder
shoulder to throat-less skull
by the thousands in corpse strewn fields
Yields they once tilled now we’ve sewn
With their bloated headless trunks
for crows to feast on
not six nor two feet beneath
blood fertiled earth
or sent them below ocean’s surface
to wander endless tides beneath
the deep in eternally sleepless
Seething sheets of unshed tears
The skalds to sing my prowess to berserkers I’ve spread the maiden n’ spew from whence my seed flung sprays like crests of waves begotten battles of them and thence cut keels of ships for seas to cleave the surf and sands of new shores break and grate
Now hear the Valkyries cry like orphaned gulls to Valhalla war-bands of fallen warriors have I flung in ecstatic fury to be forever unsung for their widows to mourn and when all is being and done then the people will smile and say thanks for all that all I’ve done for them and theirs,
For the new lands I have made for them
But they and theirs and generations upon generations to come,
are all of whom
I have ever
won
Forever for
The worship
of the foremost
Among all,
Great
All Father
Wotan
- meh, too long needs work. Ya inspired me for an hour but I et me lunch
Some bits of that at the beginning were very good.
Very interesting - thanks.
So interesting to hear these talks about specific interests instead of a general view one often gets from other channels
Jagaz - he is Odin's man!
Vote for Jagaz!
Well done and very interesting! You did well with the more formal and long form format of a lecture.
I became (or embraced) "Paganism" 30+ yrs ago when i was 16.
Became part of an Odinic "Cult" about 10 yrs. ago.
I personally prefer the term "Germanic". And being of English, Swedish & German
ancestry I tend not to stint on one version of the old religion, i.e. - Norse, Saxon, etc.
I love the Vendel period. For me it is so much cooler than the "Viking" age.
Wish we knew more of the religion and Cult practices from back during that period.
Great video. Thank you.
People who become "religious" because it's "cool". Hm. Nothing wrong with that, I guess. Very modern, indeed.
@@TheEFVG I do agree with that perspective. However I will contend that not all religions are 'belief' based as the Abrahamic ones are. In my religions / spiritualities, your deeds are more important than any internal belief structure. I should think that an animistic style religion such as may loosely described as 'North European Paganism', follows the deed over faith approach.
@@splatsma I would say it's more of a cultural revival/mentality than any sort of faith. Certain values were promoted in these traditions, people embrace these to reconstruct a christianized/eradicated identity - that is still their heritage. But I mean, even in those days, and now, the practice widely differed and was mostly personal than orthodox by any means.
Odinism is a nazi cult thing
A little bit surprised that the early medieval stories of “dog-headed men” among Germanic people (the Lombards, the Norse who came into conflict with Charlemagne, the Sami tales about the Padnakjunne) could all be references to the group theorized here.
In todays German "Wut" can still translated to mad frenzy or anger, don't know how if that actually correlates to the ancient cognates tho...
Swedish professor Sven Lagerbring(1707-1787). He has a book titled "Similarities of Swedish with Turkish". In his book, he mentions that Odin is Turkic and tells about the evidence.
In his book Heimskringla, Snorri Sturluson describes the where Asia and Europe meet.
He mentions the River Tanakvísl, which is the river Don, the Mediterranean Sea and the Black Sea, among other place names.
He also mentions that Óðinn came from the land east of Tanakvísl, in Asia. Maybe this may be interpreted as Tyrkland (Turkey).
In Snorra-Edda he also mentions Turks “Tyrkir”, and he claims that the heroics of Hector were actually done by Þór (Thor) and that the Turks called Ulysses Loki, because they were his worst enemies.
Tyrkland was in Latin called Asia Minor.
Interesting. I read once somewhere that the Aesir were gods from "Asia" and the Vanir from Europe, I believe, but I can't remember the translation of Vanir. It was a simple word of VN root, maybe VNR.
Cool 👍
A really excellent fount of knowledge and insight. This Pict 'sleuthhound', is wondering why the Comvs appear so much on our Symbol Stones, and mirrors also, and yet the Indo-European elitely employed artisans and stonemasons, associated a comb, with hygeiene.
Is this polemic illuminating some ancient dynamic, between us threatened north, UK islanders, and the pre-viking pirates and warlords, the Rb1s, who gorged on genocide of our neolithic ancestors, beginning five millenia ago? (From modern-day Belgium, no less!)
Did our ancestral linear A and B Pict symbols, warn us of these bearded 'madmen' from Iran, the J1s, (Think hirsute Sharia beards etc), and symbolised our aristocracy, as being fundamentally, and historically, aligned against these dishevelled, iconoclastic, cultural genocidists?
Yes, another wave has enlighteningly just arrived......
Thanks very much for that great insight, which has joined so many dots for me, as an independent psycholigist, researcher, author and amateur historian and archaeologist. 🙏😉👍
51:05 this reminds me of the war planes covered in bullets allegory. The planes that survive giving us an initial bias to check after further inspection of the sources. Perhaps we have that conception of the Norse being unkempt because the sources were mostly written down by their enemies/ contemporaries. If their own culture rewards these warriors as unkempt, but outside sources describe the culture to be this way broadly, perhaps this reinforces the cultic practice of growing on a hair out.
Mania? Manic? = Fury+Inspired
can i get the sauce on all the imagery you used plz?
And today we have no spear dances, no teaching or transition to adulthood, we're just left to feel like unfulfilled half adults primed to spend money instead of living
Classical cults are kinda like football clubs, you strongly favor a specific team but that doesn't stop you from partying or going on a rampage for another (friendly) club 😂
Football/soccer is a game for 10 year old kids. Life is not a contest!!!
@@Foxglove963 it's just a game bro. How you handle that is what determines whether you're a child or adult. Otherwise every sport is childish. Do you play any sports or do you have any hobbies?
@@Foxglove963Economic success, reproduction, and survival against predators and parasites are all contests. Competition was built into biology the moment there was more than one organism if not earlier than that.
7:49 the topoy could be a handy tool for understanding modern internet discourse. i wonder about comparing the language of the 19th, 20th & 21st century. it might be English but much has changed.
Amazing lecture, fantastic information that is clearly laid out. But you need to find a few more synonyms for the term "corpus", hahaa.
Hello Hilbert. This was fascinating, though as a wargamer I was never able to get the positive throw of the dice for my berserkers to achieve a crushing victory. Perhaps my belief was not strong enough?
For Geordies, war band would obviously be Lindisfarne with their famous berserker Gazza reciting the sacred lyrics of the poem about Fog on the Tyne.
I had no problems with the dice when I swapped to fanatical Christian Abyssinians, who had the added the advantage of cavalry and elephants.
I commented before how I imagined them like berserkers with war mammoths.
Have you considered more animal sacrifice?
@@yogsothoth7594 Not into animal sacrifice, but there was a wargame army list that included flaming pigs.
@@alansmithee8831 Twas a joke my dude
@@yogsothoth7594 ditto
36:26 hootchie-kootchie
Mantic States of Fury is the name of my new grindcore band.
May can thou let me wend this to spanish?
A little fast for my liking though maybe that's the editing. Have some confidence and pace yourself you're doing amazing :)
Use the speed play setting and slow it down :)
@DS I did , and even with my past critique I do absolutely think the video and presentation are phenomenal
Here is a slightly naive question: would Frisians be considered nordic or proto-viking? or classic germanic?
classic west germanic, regardless of which Frisians you are thinking of
but maybe even more precisely rather North-Sea-Germans, for they have more in common with the other north sea tribes than with let's say the inland westgermanic Chatti
all the coastal tribes apparently engaged in some piratelike form of naval warfare but dunno if this can count as proto-viking
My love for you like ticking clock. BERSERKER!
Help me out with that word..."typoi"?
3:23
Woden
I’m here because of Delphi/Moscow lol
Hello there, honest question; why being a cross dressing wizard and shape shifter contradicts being wise?
Because it was socially deviant.
I thought the wild hunt had been pretty definitively proven to be no older than like the 17 century?
Apparently not
It goes even further back before Lindisfarne was attacked in the 880's.....Charlemagne's descendant managed to throw off the attack on Paris around that time by the Norsemen.
The concept was universally known in almost every IE people. Similar folklore exist in England, Scandinavia, France, Czech, Poland, Silesia.
There might be two concept that entangled here though. One is the above mentioned rite of passage where young people symbolically die turn into wolves being expelled from society, they live of the lands as animals (and or form warbands raiding neighboring lands for cattle and women) until they return to the society as men. The other (wild hunt) is a raid where people encounter riders and dogs or wolves led by a king or war leader. The men are either dead ones, or half human half wolves.
It’s so interesting how much hallucinogenic drugs are associated with the divine. As if the supernatural is very much real but one of the very few ways of contacting gods/demons/angels/spirits/ghosts is by using hallucinogens. Like they’re the portal to the spirit world.
Is this Joe Rogan's burner?!?!
J/k
Drugs are only one of the ways to achieve ecstasy. Sex, is another. I think pain might be one. Wild dancing might be one.
Woden is the north European god of extasy.
I introduced the best betting platform to my Landlord last week, as am talking now we're both tenants 😹🤔
Hilbert, age isn't being kind to you - you look a lot more like Kirk Hammett from Metallica than when I saw you last.
It isn't me in the video ;)
@@historywithhilbert146 I was joking ya southern eejit lol
its somehow cute that these warbands choose dance as initiation ritus. half naked men dancing around phalluses reciting poetry. i like how weird the old religion seems to be again abrahamic culture.
I haven't watched the entire video but the modern concept of dance is very different from the ancient, more tribal concept. The Hakka of New Zealand, Aborigines from Australia, the Masaai of Kenya, and the more war-like furious drumming of Lakota Native Americans is more what we're talking about, not frolicking around like in ballet, leaping about, or boogeying on the dancefloor. This is generally very loud, with very simple, fast-paced rhythms, with loud horns, maybe screaming or roaring, and recitations of inspiring poetry and speeches akin to what you might find in a Pentecostal church.
Then again, Abrahamic religions are pretty weird too when you think about it. We've just grown accustomed to the weirdness of those particular religions over the centuries.
We can't understand myth and legends as long as we have no idea what is the reason that they emerged. Many ancient stories tell us about the most dramatic event in the history of mankind. That event is mentioned in ancient books like the Mahabharata or the Popol Vuh and others. Our planet Earth suffers from a cycle of seven natural disasters. The time between two disasters is mentioned a world period or era. The only possible cause of such a cycle can be a ninth planet in our solar syystem that is orbiting our sun in an eccentric orbit. Then it is close to the sun and the other planets for a short while and after crossing the eccliptic plane from these planets it disappears into the universe for a few thousand years. Due to the very high speed during the crossing the planet has a strong gravitational force on our planet. And that force pulls all sea water, sand and everything that is lying loose on the surface up 'above the highest mountains'.Because of this effect many living beings are killed and nearly everything that was made is destroyed. Myth tell us about three different effects: the planet itself, the disaster, and the change from one world era to another era. People started to explain this disaster as a fight between gods, a fight with a monster with seven heads or with the devil. This planet is worldwide known by many names: A serpent in the sky, a dragon, the destroyer, the revenger, a monster but also Phaeton, Quetzalcoatl, Lucifer Marduk and Nibiru are just a few. In scandinavia you know this disaster as Ragnarök. Thor and Odin, Wodan etc are the so called fighting gods. To learn much more about planet 9, the recurring flood cycle and its timeline, the rebirth of civilizations and ancient high technology, read the e-book: "Planet 9 = Nibiru". Available at Amazon site. This book answers many of your questions about ancient history. It can be read on any computer, tablet or smartphone. Search: planet 9 roest
So, why is Odin and Paganism a "cult", but Jesus and Christianity is not ? Just askin'
This isn’t the modern usage of “cult” with moral undertones, this is the academic usage. And in that context, the various sects of Christianity would be considered “cults”.
You are a little confused as to what cult means in this context. Is not the same thing as what everyday Americans think of (the strange often sinister groups surrounding a particular "cult leader"), but instead, it refers to the academic term of groups that devote themselves to particualr figures in community. In this sense, Christianity is indeed a kind of cult.
@@jacobandrews2663 And to add a little, in academia, a cult is a sort of subdivision with in a religion, rather then a religion in and of itself. So in academia, Germanic paganism is not a cult, but the division that worshipped Odin in particularl above and beyond all other gods would be considered cults. In terms of Christianity, their are many examples of cults within Christianity and their is a very good arguement to be made that in its earliest form Christianity was a cult within Judaism as a whole, but even later in Christian hisotry cults would srpout up, although I cannot name one at this moment.
@lordofdarkness4204 Yes, you are correct. However, I mentioned Christianity as a whole because ultimately, regardless of sect, the worship of Jesus Christ specifically, would make any sect fall under the cult category
@@lordofdarkness4204 Like the Roman Catholic Pagan Church? And still is to this day.
Nope
Advertising every 2 minutes?!? Bye!
First (nobody cares)
Yes we don't car about yeshua who is son of prostitute Mary who is aliar in Hebrew we are pagan and proud of our ancient God's of our ancestors
Seemed mostly to be what I learned as a kid. Frenzy, bear-shirts, berserkers.
I have to note that it's very problematic that the speaker didn't preface this talk by stating that when he is talking about "Germanic" or "Norse" or "Scandinavian" that he's not talking about "white people" or "people" with "blonde hair and blue eyes". Ancient Europe was an extremely diverse place with people from all colors and creeds.
What?
@@echoesinthevoid4663 I think he's trying to be sarcastic. If you look at his comment history you can see some racist undertones.
@@Brabour How can you see someone comment history on youtube?
1) This period isn't ancient Europe. It's the middle ages. 2) The colour of these people's skin, hair or eyes is completely irrelevant to any of the things he's talking about. 3) No, the ethnic and religious composition of Scandinavia in this period was not very diverse. It was in fact very homogenous.
@@LarsPallesen That's a racist lie propagated by fascists, so....