Kishore Mahbubani: A Nuanced View of Asia & China's Rise - #15
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Kishore Mahbubani is Distinguished Fellow at the Asia Research Institute, National University of Singapore.
Kishore enjoyed two distinct careers: in diplomacy (1971 to 2004) and in academia (2004 to 2019). He is a prolific writer and speaker on geopolitics and East-West relations.
He was twice Singapore’s Ambassador to the UN and served as President of the UN Security Council in January 2001 and May 2002.
Mr. Mahbubani joined academia in 2004 when he was appointed the Founding Dean of the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy (LKY School), NUS. He was Dean from 2004 to 2017.
In this episode Steve and Kishore discuss:
0:00 Introduction
2:52 Upbringing in Singapore and Asia's rise
11:35 How western thinking influences China-U.S. relations
23:05 Is China a threat to U.S. hegemony in Asia?
25:52 The United States' long-term strategy for China
32:13 How trade with ASEAN influences U.S.-China relations
40:58 Can ASEAN countries play a diplomatic role between U.S. and China
43:05 Xi Jinping's leadership and the zero-sum view of China
Links:
Can Asians Think? - mahbubani.net/can-asians-think/
The Asian 21st Century - mahbubani.net/the-asian-21st-...
Has China Won? - mahbubani.net/has-china-won/
Music used with permission from Blade Runner Blues Livestream improvisation by State Azure.
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Steve Hsu is Professor of Theoretical Physics and of Computational Mathematics, Science, and Engineering at Michigan State University. Previously, he was Senior Vice President for Research and Innovation at MSU and Director of the Institute of Theoretical Science at the University of Oregon. Hsu is a startup founder (SafeWeb, Genomic Prediction, Othram) and advisor to venture capital and other investment firms. He was educated at Caltech and Berkeley, was a Harvard Junior Fellow, and has held faculty positions at Yale, the University of Oregon, and MSU.
Please send any questions or suggestions to manifold1podcast@gmail.com or Steve on Twitter at / hsu_steve .
I am a proud Singaporean and have great respect for Kishore for his valuable advice and foresight on world affairs. Listening to him is as good as listening to our first prime minister Lee Kuan Yew. His books are priceless. I wish he could be our Prime Minister.
We need people with scholar and research. Not everyone is suited in politics.
The best and most diplomatic admonishment to the policymakers of the USA that I have ever heard!
@Ande Lai, Longing him to be your PM ? Still ignorant of say-one-thing-but -do-another hallmark ? Observe those oracular politicians (esp US) all over. Nice speeches but what happen in action? When one garners power, the true agenda will appear. 😂🤣
Is Singapore progressive enough to have a non-Chinese leader?
@@Loki-sk7bi
Leader I think you mean PM... No, not ready. It's geopolitically disastrous to have a non- Chinese (ethnic) PM.
The only flashpoint between China and the US is the Taiwan issue. China has repeated and openly warned that if any country should attempt to split the Taiwan island from China, China will go to war with that country to the end at all costs. No American should under-estimte the resolve of the Chinese people and their government. Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan is a sovereign territory of China (it was returned to China after World War II and ruled by the then Kuomintang government). It is part of unfinished civil war between the communist and Kuomintang government, which is an internal affair within China and has nothing to do with external powers, especially the US.
@@thanksforyouruploads Really, did I type in Martian? Only Martians understand the hard truth?
@@thanksforyouruploads to the west truth is subjective and their liberal views are the truth
MSM are known to lie and discriminate
@@engsudatta276 large portion of people in the US won't even know where is Taiwan in the map. hell, they may even don't know where china is in the map, despite they hear and talk about china all the time. but they will support war against china, just like any other war the US started.
@@noneone3310 That the Americans be the centre of the universe and be ignorant about China. They could.start wars and be billies in the Balkan states, Iraq, Afganistan ..... They will face the wrath and fire of the Chinese people and their government if they attempted to split Taiwan from the mainland China. That is 101% certain.
American South Korean historian David Kang wrote a book on China’s tributary system which brought stability to east Asia for 5 centuries. He showed that All these centuries of stability disappeared with the arrival of the west.
If we could hear the stories of the people of those tributary states I bet they would paint a very different picture then the one you just laid out
Your reply reveals your crass ignorance.
Under China’s tributary system, there were no wars, invasions, military bases or stationing of troops.
It is a system of trade and a set of protocols developed for relations with China.
Your ignorance projects western practice of violence, wars, invasions, coups onto China.
Chinese Tributary System
The tributary system was the form for conducting diplomatic and trade relations with China before the fall of the Ch’ing dynasty in 1911. The system involved exchanges of gifts between foreign rulers and the Chinese emperor. Foreigners benefited because the return gifts from the Chinese were always generous and the very best that an advanced civilization could offer. In addition, the Chinese emperor confirmed the foreign ruler in office, providing a form of legitimacy. In return, the foreigners adopted a posture of subjugation, thereby confirming the superiority of Chinese civilization and the legitimacy of the Chinese emperor. The system was frequently expanded into large-scale commercial trade which was greatly enjoyed by Chinese merchant and foreigners alike.
Kishore is a smart man and can see through the future. 👍🙏❤️🇦🇺
Kishore Madhubani ...... is a gem😍😍😍
Kishore, thank you for your wisdom and humility, both of which are much lacking in the world today.
"Every country has the government it deserves"- Joseph de Maistre
Poor white underclass needs negative media and politics about China to make them feel better. As long as those non-white countries people life more miserable than white underclass in America, underclass are happy. Mental opioids are more important for domestic peace than truth.
Ironically, Chinese underclass loves negative media about West for the same reason. So does north korea.
This guy isn't really humble. He's worth listening to but there's this great resentment of the west that you get from the older generation of Singaporeans. "I got my first proper flush cistern as a teenager and I grew up poor".... typical older generation Singaporean humble bragging.
It's true that there are general currents of thought amongst western minds but the political thought is a lot more nuanced and varied than he makes it out to be. He's still worth listening to because the west is in deep shit now and they're a little clueless about why they're in deep shit.
Still, he thinks that you'd rather be the bottom 10% in China than the bottom 10% in the US? That's a pretty shocking comment.
Kishore is so pro China that I even wonder he is worth listening to for 10 seconds..
@@sieteochothe reality is bottom 10% of Chinese are usually farmers, who don’t have much income from agriculture, but still has many lands and have self built big single family house, thanks to Mao land reform. Their children is likely to become a city middle class as long as they study well in Gaokao. Comparing with the bottom 10% US family who are too often stuck in drug abuse and gun violence and have no hope for their 5 children to go to a proper university. What is your choice?
@@yunzhang9471 I saw a documentary of a Chinese person who was living in the highlands. She had to walk 10 km to the nearest school. She did her farming the ancient way, the way it's always been done for centuries. She can't live in the city because she's not allowed to. There's no plumbing. Maybe she will eventually get access to this. This is what I consider the bottom 10% of China to be.
You might be surprised to find out that for the bottom 10% US family, education is the key to advancement, plus it's easier to do well in US high school than the gaokao.... you forgot to mention how competitive gaokao is. Even if you don't do well in school, you can earn a lot of money if you're a plumber or something like that.
Kishore is a very wise man, I always enjoy listening to him.
What a great podcast! Huge respects to professor Kishore Mahbubani!
Salute to Mr. Kishore!
Measured, objective, diplomatic yet candid. Prof. Mahbubani is always a joy to listen to.
This is such a rich podcast. Thank God to CZcams Algorithm for leading up to this. Keep up with such profoundly rich discussions! :)
Wise man is Kishore Mahbubani.👍let's hope the West intellectuals can do their parts but with the present politicians in US, it will be tough....
@@suew7377 àà1
9
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I respect Kishore and for his thinking and books. Spore is fortunate to have him as with the late Lee Kuan Yew.
Can Singapore defend its waters when China touches its line of the border? Will Mahubani be there to defend?
@@asgglass2709 It is a general perception propagated by the Western medias and self-inflicted fitment of imagination that China would reached Singapore shore in the present time. In fact China has done so in 1421 when Admiral Zheng He and his Armada passed Nusantara but did not colonize Temasek (old name for Singapore). Why would China do it now? The Honorable Kishore Mahbubani is a Statesman and not a Soldier.
Obviously, to the American political elite, power and hegemony is more important than the well-being of the average Americans. As John Measheimers puts it, being a hegemon means there are no consequences for its actions, no matter how badly it behaves; and America would do whatever it takes to preserve that privilege.
Absolutely agreed!
Scary.
What a rich discussion...wonderful that 42k have watched it in only 2 weeks! Thank you, I have listened twice. A new subscriber from the US.
Kishore Mahbubani: well said
It's always refreshing to hear Professor Kishore. One of those brilliant and balanced minds of the elites today. He's a prime example of smart people from Asia. Am also of the view where I don't want to see the fall of America while China rises. They should adopt a smarter diplomatic policies instead of being antagonistic thinking of the zero sum game. Is it too late to steer the ship into the right course, rather than into a disastrous one for everyone. Much respect to Professor Kishore.
Just found your podcast because of Kishore. It’s a treasure trove of interesting topics and discussions.
An excellent discussion on the most important geopolitical relationship of the 21st century.
I like Kishore's great idea of going for being the most admired country in the world rather than being the most powerful country in the world.
It resonates with the Confucious philosophy of 以德服人者王，以力服人者霸，literally translated as To overcome others with virtue is king., to overcome others with force is a bully.
"' CHINA IS A SLEEPING DRAGON, WHEN CHINA WAKES WHOLE WORLD WILL TREMBLE "' (Napoleon) 1769-1821.
at that time Napoleon had not encounter the BALD EAGLE yet
And India the tiger, with democracy and honesty, unlike China's deceit and terrorizing culture.
@@harir3628 you can get a good price from the BEAR if you gargle before you talk!!
@@paulchen2224 while they were playing cowboys and Indians
When the Tao the Ching and the Chinese Analects were written the West were in caves.
America is developing into a dangerous place for Asians. It is strange that young Asians still aspire to live in America. Social cohesion and stability is deteriorating rapidly in the US, it may be the land of the free but it is also becoming a future apocalyptic badlands.
Yes. It can be true. During the last several years, there have been a lot of hate crimes against the Asians. Also, the random mass shootings happen almost every day.
Because Asian media are too kind in their portrayal of the USA. Or too much Hollywood influence warping young Asians' mind.
That's because the "danger for Asians" exists only in few and rare places. A certain part of America wants to exclude all types of people, not just Asians based on race, ethnicity, religion, and sex. Some Americans are bigoted, prejudicial, and would like others to be like them. It's not representative of America as a whole but a liberal democracy allows all its people to express themselves although many of those thoughts may be heinous. Asians live everywhere in America without much concern for their safety and are accepted like any other person living in America, citizen or not.
@@tonysu8860 America is like a bigoted country, if you behave like the way we can tolerate, you are accepted. But you are different, we will an eye on you always in case you misbehave. The blacks used to call this racial profiling, it is becoming selective prosecution targeting Chinese academics and post graduate students. A Chinese targeted McCarthyism.
Imagine how different the world would be if Mahbubani was the president of the US.
The world will be calm and peaceful while people will live happily!
No one can cure a stage 4 cancer patient. The most humane way is euthanasia. But with the number of guns there, not optimistic.
America needs standup comedians to break the strategic groupthink on China. Do your job Trevor and Ronnie!
Professor Kishore, you have my respect for your current talk show!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge.
amazing discussions both the host and MR. Mahbubani, let's work together to tackle the challenges of humanity not a zero sum game, win win like Prez Xi says.
Kishore is not really saying anything that a lot of people have thought about. I'm sure US leaders knows this too but they care more about the money and to keep the rest of the world down. Sadly, there is still a lot of country, especially the EU is too stupid to realize it or maybe they are being threatened.
The Great Founding Father of Singapore, Mr. Lee Kuan Yew, successfully cultivated a multitude of educated, intelligent and dedicated government officials, of which
Mr. Mahbubani is one. They are much more capable than the Western politicians with short vision focused on vote getting and personal interests. China and many Asian countries have learned from Singapore during the recent rise, with further progress and a bright future ahead.
US had the Chinese Exclusion Act from 1882 to 1943. To day it’s long term strategy is continuation of CEA modified to Chinese Exclusion from the world, especially from Asia Act.
Then the only choice is to let Americans stay on their lone North America continent themselves ....
Shame usa
great podcast
A civilization can only sustain and make progress if it goes through all forms of competition with other states whether it's a peaceful or violent transformation! So, Singapore's transition to becoming a modern country is relatively peaceful while China's transition had been very turbulent throughout recent history, at least it has succeeded to a high degree.
China's population is 1.4billion whilst Singapore's is a mere 6 million. The geographical difference between the two is even more profound. Not sure why they are being compared.
@@sword7872 At least for the hard work and successful effort in building a nation with its people together. Also not to forget the speed and time taken for it to happen.
@@sword7872 Exactly. The reason why Singapore transitioning to a modern country wouldn't cause a peep with the western elites is because Singapore is a tiny city-state. Would the west have remained equally quiet about the rise of Singapore, if Singapore had been the same size as China? I think not.
China's rise has actually been extremely peaceful given its size and the speed with which it modernized. China is after all the ONLY major country that has not waged war during its 40 years long economic rise - the same cannot be said of Japan, France, Britain, Germany, the USA, etc., who've all been embroiled in colonialism and war during their own economic rise. As Eric Li has said -China's peaceful rise has ALREADY happened and the Chinese rise was bigger and faster than all the others before them, and they didn't fire even a single shot outside of Chinese borders to accomplish this.
China's transition has been very peaceful; without a shot fired. Just compare the rise of Athens, Rome Britain, UK, Germany, Japan which are all accompanied by bloodshed and massacres.
I broke my colonial mental block when I landed in Sydney, Australia and saw white men sweeping the streets and white men drunk and passed out on those same streets. At that moment I cast off my mental bonds.
you have to travel to know this?
You don't have to go there.
Just search " Philadelphia drug street" . Lots of white Americans are walking like zombies on the street and don't forget that America has biggest Homeless problem.
This can delve into this us vs them identity politics tribal mentality. View people as individuals. There are intelligent high functioning people and low functioning people from every ethnicity (however the proportions may vary). Avoiding Collective narcissism is highly important in multi-cultural societies.
@@user-yc8yu8qv3q Good one! Follow-up question: why even went there?
@@FlyingElbow And you think "they" live in a multi-cultural society and they "enjoy" that?
Do you follow Trumpism and Abeism (the late....)
Kishore M is one of great thinker this time
Good news.. 🎧 good job man 🕺🕴️
Good intellectual content! Thanks.
May Wisdom prevails.
The word "Wisdom" is overrated in western politics - Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Brandon, Blinken ...etc.
Kishore Mahbubani, one of the most wise man in Asia.
So well said
Great insights from Prof Kishore. Will the West listen?
More importantly will the US politicians listen?
@@kcchong5661,,,,, they will never listen. here in Africa they are telling us to chase china away.something that is laughable.
Only discovered this channel today which i have now subscribed. Great podcast with Kishore who has imparted so much wisdom and astute geopolitical analysis which are commonly lacked in most western politicians nowadays.
Excellent interview and dialogue 👍👍👍👍
I wish the American elites would wholeheartedly listen to this message and adjust their policies.
Nice talk.
Why does America politicians feel they are much love ,
when not many people outside America in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, Russia and South America like these American politician's personality and attitude
Kishore 👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
Kishore Mahbubani gotten Two Best Teachers in lifetime throughout Poverty stricken that is Visions and Insight to Creates A Wisdom to make use in Lifetime 😂❤🎉 to Spread the Fragments around the Global landscapes 👌🌈👁️😂❓🔭.
what to admire, when the policy only serve the top 1 %
With the Chinese, we had a different mindset. I grew up in the US and the Asians were mocked. But as a Chinese, we know our culture and history. They say we can't innovate but I always laugh at them in back of my head. For one thing, the Chinese were the most advanced civilization for thousands of years.
The Western mind and the Chinese mind think of competition very differently. 古人有曰: 胜人而不夺于人。 Surpass others without harming them. Of course when one strengthens oneself, one can make greater contribution to society. This is a win-win strategy that is infused into the Chinese thinking. On the other hand, the West think of competition as survival of the strongest (not fittest), which leads to the demise of the weak. Some may say it is a zero sum game strategy, but I think it is ultimately a lose-lose affair.
👍
It is completely wrong to use GDP per capita to calculate China's strength. In a capitalism society most property is privately owned while in China all resources and all large-scale manufacturing enterprises are state-owned, and the country's capabilities and potential will far exceed to that of any major country in the world, such as the United States, although China's GDP per capita is about 1/4 of that of the United States. It means that the absolute manageable and disposal wealth and resources of Chinese government are much more than any other country, Chinese outstanding performance in this pandemic can be the best explanation.
It is entirely appropriate to use GDP per capita as one way to measure a country's utilization of its potential and the overall benefits for all the people. In China's case the measurement reminds the analyst that only about 1/3 of China's population has been touched by China's economic transformation, and that the remaining 2/3 still live in 3rd world agrarian poverty. The ability to concentrate enormous resources in specific businesses and projects might be an advantage in some situations but cannot be good for most. This is where laissez faire capitalism has an advantage where competition forces only the best run and successful to survive and grow. Where the CCP has allowed laisez faire capitalism to exist, China has been successful in forming businesses which are innovative. Unsurprisingly, in any district you can count on only one hand the state run projects which are run efficiently and well and where there is no competition you can't even know how much waste and inefficiency exists.
It's ironic that practically everything within China is state run and controlled, yet China's BRI projects are designed like private businesses without a hint of what supposedly is so good in China. If the CCP really believed that the economic model within China is that good, China would be exporting that model to other countries instead of making money building the BRI project and then demanding repayment instead of seeking a cooperative management and use solution.
@@tonysu8860 American pandemic infected and (over one million ) death toll have really proved that GDP per capital is not the no.1 factor to reflect country’s strength and capability. My opinion, country’s political system always plays the dominant role. The wrong system is much worse than the Covid19, in nowadays America it has proofed again by this pandemic.
@@tonysu8860 Chinese successful development also proved that capitalism system is very harmful or contradict to the interests of majority, but Chinese government uses its positive factors, like competition, to effectively increase and collect social wealth, and at same time keeps the policy of “lock capital in the cage”, in case it interferes the government decision making.
American exceptionalism
American delusion
I disagree with Prof Kishore Mahbubani definition of the rule based order. The rule based order basically dictates who gives out the order and how the rest must follow. It is a order list with the top country being US giving out the order and China following them. That is why China told the US off during one of their meetings, China told US they have no authority to tell them what to do. China threw the New World Order into the thrash bin. There is already an existing International rule order that are inclusive and respect the sovereign rights of each country.
International Law should be the order. But the hegemonistic US wants to rule the world with their own so called "rule based" order that includes overthrowing other governments, bringing wars to other countries and fanning the fire for conflicts all over the world.
Agree with you.
It has to be a multilateral internationally accepted rule based order of which all countries in the United Nations should participate in ensuring its legitimacy and fair practice disallowing a nation or a few nations to dictate and rule.
You fundamentally misunderstand or misstate how international rules are created. Unlike Authoritarian states like China, "one vote one person" is part of the ethos of liberal democracy, so rules are created and even reviewed and altered by the world community, not solely by the US. The US is usually a member of the group of countries that create and modify rules because it's the global superpower expected to shoulder the greatest burden of enforcing the rules, but the US is generally never the only country that changes rules.
China's problem with a Rules based World Order is that the CCP has never felt rules or laws should ever affect what the CCP does. Domestically, the CCP imposes authoritarian rule that ignores any kind of set rules or agreement, much less respect Law. Whenever the CCP feels like simply taking something, the CCP just takes it or does whatever it wants regardless of prior agreements, contracts or Law. The CCP is above the Law and every other restriction, process or concept of Justice. The CCP can rule like this domestically because the current World Order does not usually interfere with domestic society. The CCP and its members can fraudulently steal the deposits of Henan people and the people have no recourse. The CCP can take control of the Ali companies and Ant Group, and founder Jack Ma has no option but to comply. The CCP can instruct companies like Evergrande which loans should be defaulted and which not. All these things are violations outside of China's borders and maybe even criminal but China expects to maintain international relations with the same authoritarianism it exercises at home.
You are making allegations against the CPC wrt domestic affairs without evidence. Prove all your allegations
The US breaks international law at will.
The US is a lawless society. Ownership of guns with mass shootings, politicians pushing gun ownership, cops shooting blacks freely will all be against d law. In China.
Bank executives responsible for any major financial crisis will be punished by law in China. In the 2008 crash , not one bank executive in US was convicted.
Executives of pharmaceutical companies that manufactured drugs causing countless deaths will be convicted in China.
In the US , Vioxx drug killed 500,000, none of the executives of the drug company was convicted.
In China political donations are illegal.
In the US , the corporate sector donates billions to politicians.
I can go on and on.
America want to have mess all around the world and some how getting out of it winner. This is horrible
It is not nuanced, it is only logical.
In the valley of the naive, who is learning from whom?
This is brilliant. The very fact that this podcast has been uploaded to you tube.. Kishore,is an Intellectual and articulate but his bias to China is a problem. Asian societty is not just Chinese. No question, a multipolar world will be huge win-win, if societies learn from each other. But, Asian societies must remember that the west has had the luxury of affluence and hence the ability to think deep about issues.Asia must learn from all this. Kishore,you are a perfect spokesman for the successful Asian mind!
I don't see that he has a bias towards china. Maybe you are just too used to western media reporting lies on china and think that is all true.
I don't understand, you mean you believe only white westerners are blessed with ability to think deep? That is just crazy.
One gets the perception that the West do all the deep thinking about serious issues but this is a misconception.The reason why we have this perception is the West controls the information flow in the world and reports only western thoughts and rationale.Further,since they are the dominant power,they decide on the rules.
Agree Mr Kishor is on Indian origin but seems his mind is polluted by Chinese CCP to boast about only China.
@@vinay_rai1984 Respect the fact that everyone has a right to a view.Your view is just anti China hate .
the blade runner intro song lmfao
To be honest, lots of south eastern Asians are still having that they are better than us ideology.
Disingenuous but the man seems brilliant and is nice to listen to
As a human, life has never been fair for everyone, but we all have a brain is much bigger than we needed through nourish and education we are just as smart as each other, that is the fairness from God, the Above, DNA…….
I was 30 years old when used a flashing toilet the first time😂
Group-think at US universities is nothing new....a single example amongst many, was the adoption of behaviorism.
Right. Knowing Chinese mentality n attitude, only China n USA disagreement is Taiwan, the rest are healthy competitions. China will never aim to be a world leader that USA can perpetually continue. In fact, USA has been leading rather well, except in recent decades handling it more of political reasons than good for mankind, which many feel contradicting.
A few decades ago, especially after the WW2, USA behaved more friendly and logically. But now especially during the past 20 years, they have changed and become hegemonic and demonic! Very sad indeed!!!
The CCP's publicly stated ambition is to overthrow the current World Order based on Rule of Law which would then presumably allow China to do whatever it wants without opposition from others and in particular the US. China views the US as China's biggest obstacle to doing whatever it wants internationally. In fact, this is the single minded objective of China's build up of its navy which in numbers exceeds every other navy in the world. China is not building a navy to sail with any other navy, it's to sail to confront other navies including the US one day.
East or West all the peoples are the same. Only the leaders are not the same. When the leader want to be the No. 1. When they want they race to be No. 1.
Yes, learn the best from the west n beat them at the own game, but when becomes successful don’t be big headed
My God China befriend the Pacific Island nations. Now America is like, sorry Pacific Islands nation America forgot about you, but we love you to show you our love, we going to build more American ambassies on your territory. Lol
Same in Africa and latin America
Remarkable speech kishore....
Usa is making worst that coming from inside( it is a group that manipulating and leading the outcome without through old american way of wisdom, ...therefore america can teach chinese but america can not teach american)......
Can we have some more ads please ... Steve ... wtf .. !!
Sorry, I don't control that. The audio podcast is ad free: www.manifold1.com/episodes/kishore-mahbubani-a-nuanced-view-of-asia-chinas-rise-15
waay too many ads
The (USA) United States call it "Liberation" instead of "Invasion". That was what US call it in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia and the list goes on... Why the double standard? Confused... Please enlighten. Genuine question...
Instances of the United States "liberated" or overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
2014 - 2022 - 6 countries yet to verify.
Pakistan 2022 *
West got to learn from the east too because the Indian democracy is totally from the west
broken record...more interesting stuff happenine..ukraine war, inflation, rate bike property hike , tampon shortage.
I always find it funny that the west consider China's One Belt One Road project as a threat. OBOR meant to build infrastructure like road, railway, ports and airports to facilitate trade. Trade is not a zero sum game. Every one involved in trade can benefit from OBOR project. Even more funny is that the west now want to "compete" with Chinese OBOR project with a project to build infrastructure of their own. I said funny because they think their project can threaten China. Like I said, trade is not a zero sum game. If the west want to build infrastructure to facilitate trade, then China, as the largest trading nation, will also benefit from it. It might even help alleviate Chinese burden of building infrastructure to facilitate trade, and speed up Chinese trade expansion.
They're telling the truth though. Threat to their hegemon.
Does Mr M ever verify any data he gets about poverty inChina? If his chinadata is not verified, I would say everything he says here is correct.
It's well known that only about 1/3 of China's population has been exposed to the economic rise of the past 60 years, the other 2/3 lives no differently than 60 years ago in 3rd world agrarian poverty. Also, unlike most Western socialism and liberal democracies, there is usually some kind of social net for the disadvantaged and impoverished, in other words, advanced Western societies attempt to provide a floor that enables even the most impoverished to live. My understanding is that there is no official safety net in China but of course something has to be done for the most extremely poverty-stricken.
Many average families are struggling in China. Mortgage payments for 2nd or 3rd homes, 2nd, 3rd car payments, premium education and tutoring fees etc. Fot the poor, they usually live in their hometowns and not big cities and some are rehoused in new apartments for free by the government and living off state allowances which is enough for retirement. Poor and low income earners also get free medical, free education and live a worry free, debt free life. They are happy. Its the middle class who might have problems due to mismatch of their earnings and lifestyles badly affected by lockdowns, although this is slowly getting better.
Too late for America. Russia next is to liberate Alaska.
What China has done to eliminate poverty has been awesome for the people of China … but the fact Kishore doesn’t acknowledge it’s really the west who invested heavily in the development of the Chinese economy that allowed for the elimination of poverty coupled with the hard work of the Chinese people … it’s less about the Chinese Govt and more about those other two factors
you got it all wrong. you can easily find out the stats and look at the sourcces and percentages of investments over the yearss.
The discussion was largely very very thoughtful as well as insightful, but to me, an Indian ,the professor's narrative that China only wants Prosperity of its people and reunification with Taiwan is not entirely true because of intentional border intrusion resulting in killing of Indian troops, breaking a peace and tranquility in the border for more than 60 years, there by alienating an huge country like India,having a continuous civilisation of more than 5000 years.Chinas disregard for international institutions or forcing them to ko tow their world view be enticement, Demonising an Internationaly revered Personality like Dalai Lama,taking advantage of poverty stricken countries like Pakistan,Srilanka and Many Afrucsn countries by putting then under debt trap and there by taking over there key infrastructure ,cyber warfare to attack neighbouring country's infrastructure thereby undermining their sovereignty,these are undeniable truth and indicates the hegemonic nature of Chinese expansion and aspiration, which no amount of Gloating over by the Professor, can conceal.
He doesn't have any political IQ at all..just go on about trade trade.. there's more to trade in foreign policies
Kishore is biased towards China. Scared to antagonize the dragon, patronizes India. If a small country like singapore can rise, a huge country like India will too and is rising. So keep you advise to yourself Kishore.
LOL… “When people want to move to China”. Kishore Lhasa lost his mind… No one ever….. has wanted to migrate to an authoritarian state….
China is truly unwinding! Their GDP has spiraled down over the last two years. The Chinese economy has stalled with many countries’ FDI withdrawing. Unemployment in China is worsening. Many local companies have closed down. The national debt has escalated to nearly US $20 trillion. Droughts, earthquakes and floods have hit sporadically throughout China. There is strong political undercurrents and rebellion in their political system. The communist party will be overthrown in less than 5 years!
Kishore is lying to you. Don’t be deceived by him!
It's really confusing. The West says the China threat theory, but you call it the collapse theory. What exactly is going on?
can u write a book for that “china will collapse in less than 5 years”? u seem better fortune teller than gordon chang. perhaps it can sell well, if not, at least western msm will invite you for a talk
funny....
Just read the objective factual reports coming out of China. Read the actual insider reports coming out of China. Listen to people who have escaped and fled China. Listen to your Chinese relatives and trusted friends reporting on true ground situations in China.
Listen to actual stories of oppressive social and political situations in China and persecuted citizens in China. Listen to the Uighurs who are suppressed and persecuted in China. Listen to the cries of religious organizations in China. How Fa Loong Kong, the church, Muslims and Taoists are persecuted and murdered in China.
China is to be the number one world power??!!
It a return to global fascism and brutal Leninism and Marxism!!!!! That is what Kishore is wanting the whole world to live under that kind of devilish and torturous regime and hegemony. Is Kishore’s thinking right??? Calling himself an intellectual! Perhaps a warped and perverted one!!!
Hitler, Karl Marx and Lenin also wrote books. But what kind of books has Kishore written???
Wow! Those spike proteins have imbedded and damaged your brain.
as asian-american, i really share kishore's view. i was born back in laos during the secret war in the late 60's. luckily the american lost the war, without the lost, i would never be in america. our family picked the losing side during the secret war, without it we would never be in america.
as our family was seeking an asylum in america due to the secret war, we came to america. our family didn't have flushing toilet until we came to america at the end of 1979. to immerse myself in the american society, in less then 7 years, i joined the us navy and served 5 years and went to war during the persian gulf war.
is not that asian is catching up to the west, but the uk used the opium war 1 & 2 to conquered china. after living in america as a combat veteran for 33 years.
kishore is not a wiseman, he has live through the history and experience everything in his life and is telling the truth from a historical pov.
america/west have so many china/asian experts, but no presidents ever appointed chinese/asians to bridge between these two continents. here is a stupid one, for example, the asiasociety.org/ #asiasociety #asia #society is run by whites instead of chinese/asians.
chinese/asian is learning the best practice of the west to transform/change their countries to bebetter than the west.
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